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Uthman
02-24-2008, 12:38 PM
I want to discuss this thing that we call intelligence.

What does it mean exactly?

Is it something that we are born with and are some people naturally more intelligent than others?

Or is it something that is due to our upbringing and environment?

Or maybe it is a combination of these two factors?

I'm really interested in this. Post your thoughts please.
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M.I.A.
02-25-2008, 01:04 AM
intelligence is subjective

...em hope that helps
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xboxisdead
02-25-2008, 02:19 AM
Honestly intelligence doesn't come close to a person with good sweet heart, who have taqwa and do good to people. You really think in the day of judgment people will be judged by how smart they are? Intelligence is something you are born with, some are born with IQ 150, others are born with IQ 70 others are born with IQ 110. A person will not be judged for that, but will be judged for his/her actions. Look at Hitler for example, he is ACTUALLY genius...but what did that bring to the world? He is INTELLIGENT but his heart is evil and caused million of deaths. Look at Einstein he is genius, but he invented the nuclear bomb which is used against millions of people.
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snakelegs
02-25-2008, 05:01 AM
do we really know what "intelligence" is?
i do know that i have never met a stupid child.
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Muezzin
02-25-2008, 09:26 AM
I think intelligence is both nature- and nurture-based. If most of your family are geniuses, odds are you will be too - provided you're properly taught to capitalise on your potential.

format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
do we really know what "intelligence" is?
i do know that i have never met a stupid child.
I know of plenty of stupid adults though. :p
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------
02-25-2008, 09:36 AM
:salamext:

Intelligence is knowing what u know, and knowing that you dont u know what u dont know, u know.

Have I confused you yet? :D
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-25-2008, 10:02 AM
I want to discuss this thing that we call intelligence.

What does it mean exactly?
CIA, FBI, Men In Black?!


but on a more serious note, intelligence is what helps you to realise who and what Allaah is... and then using that realisation to worship Allah.

before achieving this, dont consider yourself intelligent, but proud and arrogant...

there was a time when abu jahl (father of ignorance) was called abul hakam (father of wisdom) but his wisdom didnt lead him to islam... so he has no intelligence!


Assalamu Alaikum
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rabarbara2008
02-25-2008, 10:16 AM
what an interesting and DEEP topic. thank you for making us think and discuss.
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------
02-25-2008, 10:18 AM
:salamext:

but his wisdom didnt lead him to islam... so he has no intelligence!
Point!
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Muezzin
02-25-2008, 11:04 AM
Er... intelligence, wisdom and an Islamic belief and lifestyle are not mutually exclusive concepts. One can and should strive to be a clever, wise and great Muslim. :)
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-25-2008, 11:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Er... intelligence, wisdom and an Islamic belief and lifestyle are not mutually exclusive concepts. :)

bro im not sure what this means, if you can explain inshaAllaah? :)

Assalamu Alaikum
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Muezzin
02-25-2008, 11:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
bro im not sure what this means, if you can explain inshaAllaah? :)

Assalamu Alaikum
Well, it means that you can be intelligent, well-read etc as well as a very good Muslim.

It looked like some people were saying that you can only be intelligent or Islamic - one or the other, no exceptions :p :)
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-25-2008, 11:20 AM
^ oh lol, i understand, and agree :)


Assalamu Alaikum
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guyabano
02-25-2008, 11:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Well, it means that you can be intelligent, well-read etc as well as a very good Muslim.

It looked like some people were saying that you can only be intelligent or Islamic - one or the other, no exceptions :p :)
Ermmm, I get this message different: 'You are only intelligent if you are a muslim' !
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-25-2008, 11:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Ermmm, I get this message different: 'You are only intelligent if you are a muslim' !
Would you like to define intelligence? :)
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guyabano
02-25-2008, 11:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Would you like to define intelligence? :)

According to the post, everything what non-mulsims are not ! :okay:
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-25-2008, 11:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
According to the post, everything what non-mulsims are not ! :okay:
not everything, but there were flaws which his intelligence simply didnt help, thus he couldnt reach the understanding required to grasp the concept of worshipping only One God and believing that God is merciful enough to send messengers to warn mankind.


anyway what i want to know is your concept of intelligence?

to you, whos the intelligent one? the one who gets highest grades and the best qualifications?!
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Muezzin
02-25-2008, 11:49 AM
To me, the intelligent one is he (or she, I'm PC homey) who does not engage in personal arguments which result in Ultimate Thread Lockage (TM).
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Keltoi
02-25-2008, 12:00 PM
When I think of intelligence, as a teacher, I tend to think of the ability to understand concepts. In teaching we are taught that there are various forms of intelligence, something I agree with wholeheartedly. There is spatial intelligence, mathematical intelligence, artistic/musical intelligence, etc. That is why you have students very good at language, reading, and writing, but not so good at math...and vice versa.
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guyabano
02-25-2008, 12:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
not everything, but there were flaws which his intelligence simply didnt help, thus he couldnt reach the understanding required to grasp the concept of worshipping only One God and believing that God is merciful enough to send messengers to warn mankind.


anyway what i want to know is your concept of intelligence?

to you, whos the intelligent one? the one who gets highest grades and the best qualifications?!
hmm, good question.

Defining intelligence is highly problematic. Is there an 'intelligence' that equips us to solve all kinds of problems and answer all questions, regardless of their nature? Or are there different intelligences that help us deal with particular problems and solutions?

IQ tests
There are a number of different methods which purport to measure intelligence, the most famous of which is perhaps the IQ, or 'Intelligence Quotient' test. The 'Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale' began life in early 20th century Paris, as part of Alfred Binet’s efforts to educate children with learning difficulties. Those that obtained a score below their age were considered "retarded".

IQ is a 'psychometric' test, meaning it measures mental ability. However, defining intelligence is far from simple. There are two main schools of thought. The first believes in an inherited, genetically determined intellect that can be measured. The second group of psychologists believe in many intelligences, the development of which may be the result of our social background. They also think that measuring these intelligences is also problematic.

The modern day IQ test measures a variety of different types of ability such as verbal, mathematical, spatial, memory and reasoning. The test is then 'pre-tested' on a group of people representative of the wider population. Then it's graded so that the majority of people will be get between 90-110.

Is IQ a good measure of intelligence?
Whether IQ tests actually test general intelligence, or g, is debatable. Many see IQ tests as an assessment of an individual’s problem solving ability rather than general intelligence. However, they are not even a comprehensive test of someone's problem solving ability. Although they may assess analytical and verbal aptitude well, they aren't an accurate test of creativity, practical knowledge, and other skills involved in problem solving. So how can IQ tests be seen as a measure of intelligence? Some argue that they just show how good the individual is at IQ tests!

Is our intelligence changing?
In an attempt to avoid a slant that favours a particular culture, intelligence tests were devised that focused on mathematical and spatial skills rather than vocabulary. But even these tests are not exempt from cultural influences - increased use of video games improves spatial awareness and reaction time.

However, although we are gaining skills in some areas of intelligence, we are losing out in others, such as memory. So although this generation may not be able to remember the vast number of poems that our grandfathers’ learnt, their skills are greater in other areas.

James R Flynn has been trying to decipher these problems, especially in light of an alleged increase in IQ with successive generations, termed the 'Flynn Effect'. However, it is exactly in this area that intelligence tests come unstuck.

Who is to say that playing a video game is more intellectually demanding than being a scrivener in the nineteenth century? Scriveners had an amazing capacity for arithmetic brought on by the need to do double-entry bookkeeping without calculators, a skill that today's 'yoof' could only dream of.

The importance of IQ
Because of IQ's supposed ability to objectively measure 'intelligence' they have been used by a variety of different people and institutions over the years. Many companies use IQ and psychometric tests to gauge the 'ability' of potential employees. These tests are also used in government, by the civil service, and by the Armed Forces. By using such tests, institutions and companies have bought into the idea of a 'general intelligence' underpinning our mental ability regardless of the specific skills required for the job applied for.

Is intelligence genetic?
In spring 1998, Robert Plomin claimed to have discovered a gene linked with intelligence. More recently, the Human Genome Project is cautious when approaching areas implying racial differences since research actually shows greater genetic differences within races than between races.

However, not all individuals are endowed with the same intelligence and many believe this must have something to do with our genes and the way they interact with the environment. Identical twins are more likely to obtain the same score in an IQ test than twins from two separate eggs that have a different genetic make up.

It is important to remember that genes work by interacting with the environment, so social factors will also influence intelligence. Intelligence tests may be more of an assessment of social factors, such as your educational background.

Black children adopted into white middle class families score significantly higher on average than those in working class families- implying a cultural slant to tests. It is impossible to devise questions without some cultural or gender bias; boys tend to do better in spatial tests whereas girls score higher on linguistic tests.

Taken from here
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-25-2008, 12:08 PM
^ i just wanted to know what you think lol, but i did read all of that.
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guyabano
02-25-2008, 12:14 PM
I'm sorry, but my english is bad. I prefer to post you this one, as it also says, what I like to express. Just, maybe not so scientific. imsad
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-25-2008, 01:04 PM
^ thats ok lol, thanks :)
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snakelegs
02-26-2008, 02:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
When I think of intelligence, as a teacher, I tend to think of the ability to understand concepts. In teaching we are taught that there are various forms of intelligence, something I agree with wholeheartedly. There is spatial intelligence, mathematical intelligence, artistic/musical intelligence, etc. That is why you have students very good at language, reading, and writing, but not so good at math...and vice versa.
this is good news. when i did my brief stint in school 147 years ago, the emphasis was overwhelmingly on verbal skills. i'm glad schools have learned a bit in the meantime.
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snakelegs
02-26-2008, 02:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin

I know of plenty of stupid adults though. :p
of course - and this is what is so interesting. i meant it when i said i've never seen a stupid child. i'm thinking of little kids. if you can hang out with them with no other adults around, you will find out that they are bright, enthusiastic and eager to learn.
has anyone else noticed this too, or is that just my experience?
if it is indeed true...
..."They" put them in the machine at one end, and when they come out the other end, only some of them are still intelligent. the question is....what happens in the meantime - school, TV, social pressure, movies, mass culture?
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xboxisdead
02-26-2008, 04:20 AM
What you said "..."They" put them in the machine at one end, and when they come out the other end, only some of them are still intelligent. the question is....what happens in the meantime - school, TV, social pressure, movies, mass culture?"

I would say all of the above: TV, entertainment center and musics are the three major factors that damage a child's intelligence and put the child back in achieving high grade. Social pressure, movies and mass culture are other factors that will hinder the child's intellectual development. Finally, parenting are one of the biggest factors that will hinder the child's intellectual development. Another factor if there are problem in the family that by itself will not only hinder the child's development but will permanently damage and scar the child and might even cause the child into doing bad things. Look at the culture of the West, it pushes and cheers stupidity. If you watch TV in the west you will notice most cartoons and sitcoms encourages stupidity: Simpson (is the worst), Family Guy, etc, etc.
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aqsakhan
02-26-2008, 06:52 AM
Huzoor paak Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam was most intelligent of all.....and look to what he did how he did his way of life his sunnah everything has goood in it for all masses...........observe him and will get the true meaning of intelligence
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