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islamirama
02-28-2008, 05:48 AM
ABC: What Would You Do if You Witnessed Anti-Muslim Bias?

The Sept. 11 attacks, the Iraq war and suicide bombings worldwide have changed not only the way we live but the way we look at those around us, especially Muslims. "Islamophobia" has entered the American vernacular, and the anti-Muslim attitudes and prejudice it describes remain common.


But what if you witnessed "Islamophobia" in action and saw someone being victimized because of someone else's prejudices? What would you do?


ABC's production crew outfitted a bustling roadside bakery north of Waco, Texas, with hidden cameras and two actors. One played a female customer wearing a traditional Muslim head scarf, or hijab. The other acted as a sales clerk who refused to serve her and spouted common anti-Muslim and anti-Arab slurs.


The polarity of reactions was shocking, from support to seething disapproval. Never did we expect customers to be so passionate or candid.


Watch the premiere of "Primetime: What Would You Do?" tonight at 10 p.m. ET and CLICK HERE for more reactions caught on tape!


His Place, His Right


Our actor, Sabina, walked into the bakery in search of apple strudel. When she reached the counter, an actor posing as a sales clerk was quick to greet her with hateful anti-Muslim language.


"Get back on the camel and go back to wherever you came from," he said. "You got that towel on your head. I don't know what's underneath your dress. Just please take your business and go elsewhere with it."


"Sir, I am an American, I was born and raised here," she said.


The other customers seemed to hear the exchange but they barely looked toward our actors. When no one came to her defense, Sabina made a direct appeal to one customer.
"Sir, would you mind ordering me an apple strudel? That's why I am here," Sabina said.


Though visibly shaken by the hateful words, the man gave Sabina the cold shoulder, completed his purchase, and walked out of the bakery. "I really think that a person who owns his own business should be able to say who they sell to," he said after we told him about the experiment.
In fact, it is illegal for public establishments to deny service based on someone's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin, according to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Regardless, this man was not the only customer to defend our sales clerk's "right" to discriminate. (MORE)




Source: ABC News



Author: Ann Sorkowitz and Julie N. Hays






To see the video visit: http://www.youtube.com/v/RhIwLgNsfwI
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guyabano
02-28-2008, 11:27 AM
I think, upon this stament, he was right:

"I really think that a person who owns his own business should be able to say who they sell to"
If I'm the owner of a business, I can decide, who I like to serve, and who not. It's still a PRIVATE ground and it is MY shop.

But I'm not so sure upon this Law about 'Public Establishments' in USA, so I prefer to step back.

In fact, it is illegal for public establishments to deny service based on someone's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin, according to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
But despite this experminent, noone should be discriminated upon his race, religion or skincolor.
But I will admit, if I would live in USA and a woman in a burka would enter a public place, full of people, I would also feel uncomfortable. He was right with the words 'I don't know what's underneath your dress'.
The recent bombings are still in the memories of american citizens. These wounds must first heal.

IMHO, this experiment is a little bit permature.

But then again, I'm not in USA.

Peace
Reply

*Hana*
02-28-2008, 11:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
I think, upon this stament, he was right:



If I'm the owner of a business, I can decide, who I like to serve, and who not. It's still a PRIVATE ground and it is MY shop.

But I'm not so sure upon this Law about 'Public Establishments' in USA, so I prefer to step back.



But despite this experminent, noone should be discriminated upon his race, religion or skincolor.
But I will admit, if I would live in USA and a woman in a burka would enter a public place, full of people, I would also feel uncomfortable. He was right with the words 'I don't know what's underneath your dress'.
The recent bombings are still in the memories of american citizens. These wounds must first heal.

IMHO, this experiment is a little bit permature.

But then again, I'm not in USA.

Peace
Are you kidding me??? :mad:

How do I know what is hidden in your car? How do I know what's hidden in your baggy pants? Let me tell you something, it is FAR more likely a gun is hidden in a car or baggy pants, or a hoody, or jacket, etc., than a bloody bomb hidden under a hijab. How many American Muslims have gone around blowing up bakeries and other establishments. Then compare that to how many low life thugs have robbed, beaten and murdered a hard working store owner for $20!!

I can't believe there are such simple minded people around and I'm even more shocked at you. You don't even see the bigotry in your comments. No, you do not have the right to refuse to serve someone based on their race, colour, religion, etc. Sadly, it's because of people that share your views that these laws have to be created and enforced to ensure everyone has the same rights.

If you see my blonde hair do you also assume I am stupid? If you see a woman in a short skirt do you assume she is a hooker? If you see a kid wearing his baggy pants do you assume he's a gangster? Sad that you have to look at a Muslimah and wonder what's hidden in her clothes. You've immediately made a negative judgment about her with absolutely no basis in facts.

And what's worse,these same people will pass these racist views on to the next generation so the hate just keeps going and going.

This isn't just about Muslims, it's about every Sikh, Jew, Black man/woman, Indian, Asian, etc., that ever experienced this same, pathetic treatment.

What a sad, pathetic state the world is in today. imsad

Hana
Reply

future_scholar
02-28-2008, 11:50 AM
subhanallah, may allah make it easy for the muslims all over the world
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Cabdullahi
02-28-2008, 11:54 AM
I cant believe people are still buying these false terrorism crap
Muslims are not terrorists BUT If you want to call muslim terrorists then you should call the american government a terrorist government,terrorism is only present because american,israel and britain created it.It is superbly well documented in the media and newspapers to instill fear in hearts.
Reply

guyabano
02-28-2008, 11:57 AM
Well, according to your reaction, I can pretend, that you didn't even read my comment.
I clearly stated, I'm not an american. All I know is, that in the place I live, an owner of a shop can refuse to serve somebody if he don't like him, despite of race or whatever. That is a personal choice, people enter YOUR shop, and not a public establishment.
Besides, did I say somewhere, I would not serve this person?
I just said, IF I would live in America ...
Now don't twist my comments, please. I really don't like these childish overreactions.

And besides, my car doesn't yell 'Death to America'.

Peace
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
02-28-2008, 11:59 AM
^ the best to do would have been apologise, come on guya we know you are capable ! :p
Reply

guyabano
02-28-2008, 12:09 PM
Ok, I know my english is bad, but not that bad.

Come guys, what did I say wrong? I just made clear staments.

1. An owner of a shop has the right to refuse to serve in his OWN shop, even a person of same nationality, race, skincolor. . What is wrong on this one?
2. If some fanatics would threaten my country with some terroist attacks (which oneone will now deny here), of course I would become careful, at least for a while.

At no point, I declared, that I do discriminate somebody.

Unstandable ?

Peace
Reply

Malaikah
02-28-2008, 12:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
But I will admit, if I would live in USA and a woman in a burka would enter a public place, full of people, I would also feel uncomfortable. He was right with the words 'I don't know what's underneath your dress'
So what if she was dressed as a smart business woman with a brief case? Or a teenager with a backpack?

Dear God, a brief case, a back pack! oh the horror! Imagine the explosives that might be in there!

But no, obviously not, shes just another ordinary customer, isn't she?

Disgusting.
Reply

Intisar
02-28-2008, 12:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
I think, upon this stament, he was right:



If I'm the owner of a business, I can decide, who I like to serve, and who not. It's still a PRIVATE ground and it is MY shop.

But I'm not so sure upon this Law about 'Public Establishments' in USA, so I prefer to step back.
Actually, it's against the law in the US to refuse to serve customers based on religion, race, or ethnicity as it is discrimination.


But then again, I'm not in USA.
And thank God for that. :rolleyes:


I watched the program two days ago with my mother, and more people stepped in to tell the shop owner that what he was doing was wrong than people who agreed with him. But the overwhelming majority did nothing.

If that ever happened to me, I would give that person a piece of mind. I'm straight up and real, so If you've got a problem with me, then I'd prefer that you step to me and say it to my face.

Things like this have happened to me before, well similar incidents. And it's funny, 'cause the most racist people that I come across usually have the thickest accents.
Reply

*Hana*
02-28-2008, 12:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Well, according to your reaction, I can pretend, that you didn't even read my comment.
I clearly stated, I'm not an american. All I know is, that in the place I live, an owner of a shop can refuse to serve somebody if he don't like him, despite of race or whatever. That is a personal choice, people enter YOUR shop, and not a public establishment.
Besides, did I say somewhere, I would not serve this person?
I just said, IF I would live in America ...
Now don't twist my comments, please. I really don't like these childish overreactions.

And besides, my car doesn't yell 'Death to America'.

Peace
I said nothing about where you lived, YOU said you agreed with the comment the actor made. My opinion differed.

Neither does a burqua scream "Death to America", neither does the vast majority of the 1.2 billion Muslims in world.

No need to feel guilty or assume my post was totally directed at you...it wasn't. The majority of it was general.

My "childish overreaction" was concerning bigotry of ALL sorts and at all levels, I guess I can assume if I accepted and tolerated SOME bigotry it wouldn't be childish?? What bigotry, in your opinion, is acceptable and at what level?

Hana
Reply

guyabano
02-28-2008, 12:21 PM
Ohhh, come on, people. It seems, noone like to understand.

Of course, a threat might come out of every pocket, even shotgun massacres in USA are frequent.
But, how many women in a Burka blow themselves up in Israel public shops, and how many did it as a business woman with a suit case? Now answer me frankly?
And finally, what is it what people see in TV? People in America see everyday in TV some fully veiled terrorits yelling 'Death to America'. So can you really blame them?

peace
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
02-28-2008, 12:22 PM
^ you wish you had listened to my previous advice now dont you :p

but honestly, i dont think it right to put up a charade, muslims should know better.

the western discriminations against muslims wont stop until we change things ourselves.


if ive said anything wrong please correct me



Assalamu Alaikum
Reply

Malaikah
02-28-2008, 12:23 PM
Israel has been oppressing Palestinians for years and years, the Palestinians are desperate and feed up!

How on earth can you compare the situation in Palastine and Israel to the rest of the world?!
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
02-28-2008, 12:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
And finally, what is it what people see in TV? People in America see everyday in TV some fully veiled terrorits yelling 'Death to America'. So can you really blame them?

peace
this is the real issue here, propaganda, and yes we can indeed blame them.

why dont they search a little more rather then suspecting the nearest niqaabi of being an extremist/terrorist.


the west is supposed to be a land for the open-minded, but when it comes to islam the mind gets narrow....
Reply

Intisar
02-28-2008, 12:27 PM
:sl: Okay, so guyabano, your solution is to discriminate against Muslimahs? Randomly check us on the streets to make sure that we're not hiding a bomb under our niqaabs, burqas, and abayas? You're ridiculous.

This program just goes to show how tolerant Americans are, as much as people like to put up the impression that they're not. As for you, well, you could take a page from their book(s).

I was so proud of many of the passerbys standing up for the girl, even a man who's son just came back from serving Iraq stood up for her. Wouldn't you be under the impression that he would agree with the shop keeper? But infact, he kept on reminding them everyone is an American.

Funnily enough, the sister that the program was based on (she's from Texas), dresses in a very western fashion. She had her eyebrows done, nails done (fake), colourful hijabs, and colourful clothing. And yet somehow, in the midst of all of her Western attire, people still discriminate against her. imsad
Reply

crayon
02-28-2008, 12:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
I think, upon this stament, he was right:

If I'm the owner of a business, I can decide, who I like to serve, and who not. It's still a PRIVATE ground and it is MY shop.

Yes, you could decide. You would be simply proving your racism or sexism, but you could decide. If it weren't for the law that forced you to do otherwise, of course.

But I'm not so sure upon this Law about 'Public Establishments' in USA, so I prefer to step back.



But despite this experminent, noone should be discriminated upon his race, religion or skincolor.
But I will admit, if I would live in USA and a woman in a burka would enter a public place, full of people, I would also feel uncomfortable. He was right with the words 'I don't know what's underneath your dress'.
The recent bombings are still in the memories of american citizens. These wounds must first heal.

There is a difference between a burka and a hijab. A burka is this:


A hijab is a cloth you wear on your head, with which you need to cover everything but your hand and face. You can wear jeans and a long sleeved shirt and be wearing hijab. How would you be able to "hide" something that any other woman couldn't? Unless you stuck it to your neck, or something.


IMHO, this experiment is a little bit permature.

But then again, I'm not in USA.

Peace
...
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
02-28-2008, 12:30 PM
^ assalamu alaikum sis crayon

actually the hijaab is more like a state like ihraam.

its like when you cover yourself up and maintain ur hayaa' and try to conceal urself, your in hijaab.

so abaaya/headscarf/ face veil with the right attitude and manners could make up the hijaab.


if i said anything wrong please correct me :)


Assalamu Alaikum
Reply

guyabano
02-28-2008, 12:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
Israel has been oppressing Palestinians for years and years, the Palestinians are desperate and feed up!

How on earth can you compare the situation in Palastine and Israel to the rest of the world?!
Yes, you are right, but that is what is running in the news on TV in America.
As IbnAbdulHakim said already, both must change their attitude.
I tell you what, I personally run an 'Electric Appliances Shop' with 15 workers, and I never refused any customer in my shop, even though I have the right to it. Even sometimes, I have to pinch my nose because of some smelly aromatic customers entering the shop, but still i will sell them a light bulb, if they need it.

I never discrimitated a person, specially, because my wife is already asian. So we are interracial.


Peace
Reply

guyabano
02-28-2008, 12:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
...
Thank you, now today I learned again something. Someday, I will be able to make the difference between all types of muslim clothings.
In that case, I have to apologize as I missunderstood this part. I thought, the woman entering the shop wear full body burka.

Peace
Reply

*Hana*
02-28-2008, 12:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Ohhh, come on, people. It seems, noone like to understand.

Of course, a threat might come out of every pocket, even shotgun massacres in USA are frequent.
But, how many women in a Burka blow themselves up in Israel public shops, and how many did it as a business woman with a suit case? Now answer me frankly?
And finally, what is it what people see in TV? People in America see everyday in TV some fully veiled terrorits yelling 'Death to America'. So can you really blame them?

peace
The problem is that you are speaking totally one-sided. I, and the majority of Muslims, do not condone suicide bombings, but that doesn't change the fact that Muslims had been blown up regularly by American and British soldiers, Palestinians continue to be slaughtered, Ugandans butchered and tortured daily, etc. Where is this outrage? You don't hear of it. All you continue to hear is a bombing that took place 6.5 years ago EVERY DAY!! Sadly, 3300 or so people lost lives that day....where is the sadness for the 1 million Iraqis that have died since US imposed sanctions, the thousands Ugandans slaughtered, tortured and disfigured.

The media shows what it wants you to see because they know most will not take the time to see the other side or look towards other acts of terror committed by non Muslims. The terrorists in Uganda are Christians...yet no one invades that country to help those people. And, if a Christian from Uganda walked into your shop, you wouldn't think twice about serving him. No one would assume he is part if the Lord's Resistance Army, and would only be shocked to learn the truth after the fact.

This is the reality and it is only through making an honest effort to educate yourself that you'll see the complete truth. However, most will not do that and will only trust the media's presentation.

Hana
Reply

crayon
02-28-2008, 12:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
2. If some fanatics would threaten my country with some terroist attacks (which oneone will now deny here), of course I would become careful, at least for a while.
So I'm also assuming you wouldn't let anyone who looked like they belonged to a gang into your shop, either, right?
Reply

crayon
02-28-2008, 12:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ assalamu alaikum sis crayon

actually the hijaab is more like a state like ihraam.

its like when you cover yourself up and maintain ur hayaa' and try to conceal urself, your in hijaab.

so abaaya/headscarf/ face veil with the right attitude and manners could make up the hijaab.


if i said anything wrong please correct me :)


Assalamu Alaikum
No, that's right. But I mean in terms of dress, when someone wears "hijab", the minimum is to cover the hair and body except for the face and hands. So a person in hijab could be anything from jeans and a long sleeved shirt to a burka with a face covering.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
02-28-2008, 12:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
No, that's right. But I mean in terms of dress, when someone wears "hijab", the minimum is to cover the hair and body except for the face and hands. So a person in hijab could be anything from jeans and a long sleeved shirt to a burka with a face covering.
i see jazakAllaah khair


question: if you can see the shape of the lower legs whilst covered by jeans is the person still in hijaab?

sorry if its a silly question... but when you stated:

So a person in hijab could be anything from jeans and a long sleeved shirt
it made me wonder..


Assalamu Alaikum
Reply

guyabano
02-28-2008, 12:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
So I'm also assuming you wouldn't let anyone who looked like they belonged to a gang into your shop, either, right?
I'm afraid, I cannot answer you this question, as we have no 'gangs' here in my place. I live in a very peaceful place with practically no crime. Already a holdup on a gasoline station here is in the top headlines.
But of course, if some teenies have strange behavior in my shop, sort of nothing buying but faking, as if they have interest in buying a washing machine (what teenie would buy a washing Machine ?) I would become suspicious.

Peace
Reply

YusufNoor
02-28-2008, 12:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
I think, upon this stament, he was right:



If I'm the owner of a business, I can decide, who I like to serve, and who not. It's still a PRIVATE ground and it is MY shop.

But I'm not so sure upon this Law about 'Public Establishments' in USA, so I prefer to step back.



But despite this experminent, noone should be discriminated upon his race, religion or skincolor.
But I will admit, if I would live in USA and a woman in a burka would enter a public place, full of people, I would also feel uncomfortable. He was right with the words 'I don't know what's underneath your dress'.
The recent bombings are still in the memories of american citizens. These wounds must first heal.

IMHO, this experiment is a little bit permature.

But then again, I'm not in USA.

Peace
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

it says:

ABC's production crew outfitted a bustling roadside bakery north of Waco, Texas, with hidden cameras and two actors. One played a female customer wearing a traditional Muslim head scarf, or hijab. The other acted as a sales clerk who refused to serve her and spouted common anti-Muslim and anti-Arab slurs.
that IS NOT what's referred to as a hijab, NOR IS IT A BURQA! it is, and i quote: "a head scarf" JUST A HEAD SCARF! did your mom ever put on a kerchief? same thing!

Besides, did I say somewhere, I would not serve this person?
I just said, IF I would live in America ...
Now don't twist my comments, please. I really don't like these childish overreactions.
OK, so a young black man or 2 walk into your store, they have scarves on their heads, gold chains around their neck, tatts galore and pants around their knees, can i kick them out of the store because ive seen folks like that on the news who do foul things?

:w:
Reply

Malaikah
02-28-2008, 12:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
question: if you can see the shape of the lower legs whilst covered by jeans is the person still in hijaab?
:sl:

In general usage the term hijab refers tot eh head cover... at least where i live it does.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
02-28-2008, 12:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
I'm afraid, I cannot answer you this question, as we have no 'gangs' here in my place. I live in a very peaceful place with practically no crime. Already a holdup on a gasoline station here is in the top headlines.
^ lol where abouts is that?!

sounds like a peaceful area :)
Reply

*Hana*
02-28-2008, 12:43 PM
I sincerely don't believe Guyabano is racist at all. My problem was that he agreed with the statement the actor made in the short documentary. I also wanted to give him another view of what could also be seen as a threat with far more basis in fact and far more likely than a bomb under a burqua in America.

Bigotry, at any level, should not be tolerated, and that was my point.

Hana
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
02-28-2008, 12:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

In general usage the term hijab refers tot eh head cover... at least where i live it does.
yeah but we're not suppose to take the general term right?

we're suppose to understand it for its islamically correct term?


la adree, you've confused me now


Assalamu Alaikum
Reply

*Hana*
02-28-2008, 12:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ assalamu alaikum sis crayon

actually the hijaab is more like a state like ihraam.

its like when you cover yourself up and maintain ur hayaa' and try to conceal urself, your in hijaab.

so abaaya/headscarf/ face veil with the right attitude and manners could make up the hijaab.


if i said anything wrong please correct me :)


Assalamu Alaikum
Absolutely 100% correct, brother.

The word "hijab" has also become the word used for the headscarf, but the correct meaning is exactly as you explained.

Wa'alaikum salam,
Hana
Reply

guyabano
02-28-2008, 12:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
The problem is that you are speaking totally one-sided. I, and the majority of Muslims, do not condone suicide bombings, but that doesn't change the fact that Muslims had been blown up regularly by American and British soldiers, Palestinians continue to be slaughtered, Ugandans butchered and tortured daily, etc. Where is this outrage? You don't hear of it. All you continue to hear is a bombing that took place 6.5 years ago EVERY DAY!! Sadly, 3300 or so people lost lives that day....where is the sadness for the 1 million Iraqis that have died since US imposed sanctions, the thousands Ugandans slaughtered, tortured and disfigured.

The media shows what it wants you to see because they know most will not take the time to see the other side or look towards other acts of terror committed by non Muslims. The terrorists in Uganda are Christians...yet no one invades that country to help those people. And, if a Christian from Uganda walked into your shop, you wouldn't think twice about serving him. No one would assume he is part if the Lord's Resistance Army, and would only be shocked to learn the truth after the fact.

This is the reality and it is only through making an honest effort to educate yourself that you'll see the complete truth. However, most will not do that and will only trust the media's presentation.

Hana
I fully agree with your words, but fact is also, the majority of people get brainwashed (I hate this words, but it fits here) by the media. And that counts for both sides, westerners as well as for muslims.
I know it's offtopic, but just yesterday, I watched on CNN, how a young iraqi boy had surgery in USA because he got his face totally defigured by a suicide bomber in Iraq. Now, CNN made out of this story a heart touching story to show the goodness of USA. THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE LIKE TO SEE. I said to my wife: 'Look, they show how they save one Iraqi Boy's life with CNN Charity founds, but what they won't show is, how many they killed already.

But then again, you also find this kind of biased news on Al Jazeera. Newsagencies live from this business thats why it will never stop.

Peace
Reply

crayon
02-28-2008, 12:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

In general usage the term hijab refers tot eh head cover... at least where i live it does.
Yeah, same here.
For the hijab to be islamically acceptable, though, it has to fulfill the following conditions:

" 1. The Hijab must cover her body completely from the top to the bottom, except what was mentioned above i.e. face and hands.
2. The Hijab itself must not be a Zeenah an adornment, otherwise, it would need another Hijab on top of it.
3. The Hijab must be opaque or non-transparent so that nothing shows through from underneath it.
4. The Hijab must be wide and big so that it does not outline the body of the woman and does not profile her body parts."

edit- and again, i'm talking about the dress only, it is much more than that though, a whole attitude.
Reply

*Hana*
02-28-2008, 12:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
I fully agree with your words, but fact is also, the majority of people get brainwashed (I hate this words, but it fits here) by the media. And that counts for both sides, westerners as well as for muslims.
I know it's offtopic, but just yesterday, I watched on CNN, how a young iraqi boy had surgery in USA because he got his face totally defigured by a suicide bomber in Iraq. Now, CNN made out of this story a heart touching story to show the goodness of USA. THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE LIKE TO SEE. I said to my wife: 'Look, they show how they save one Iraqi Boy's life with CNN Charity founds, but what they won't show is, how many they killed already.

But then again, you also find this kind of biased news on Al Jazeera. Newsagencies live from this business thats why it will never stop.

Peace
Yes, absolutely. We agree absolutely here, including the comment about Al Jazeera. I look at CNN and Al Jazeera, then go to the CBC or BBC, etc., and eventually, you can get the entire story.

And, yes, that's exactly why it will never stop.

Hana
Reply

Malaikah
02-28-2008, 12:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
I said to my wife: 'Look, they show how they save one Iraqi Boy's life with CNN Charity founds, but what they won't show is, how many they killed already.
Nice to know you aren't as bigoted as your first post suggested!:thumbs_up

Peace.
Reply

*Hana*
02-28-2008, 12:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
Yeah, same here.
For the hijab to be islamically acceptable, though, it has to fulfill the following conditions:

" 1. The Hijab must cover her body completely from the top to the bottom, except what was mentioned above i.e. face and hands.
2. The Hijab itself must not be a Zeenah an adornment, otherwise, it would need another Hijab on top of it.
3. The Hijab must be opaque or non-transparent so that nothing shows through from underneath it.
4. The Hijab must be wide and big so that it does not outline the body of the woman and does not profile her body parts."

edit- and again, i'm talking about the dress only, it is much more than that though, a whole attitude.
In the words of Dr. Zakir Naik:

Six criteria for Hijab.

According to Qur’an and Sunnah there are basically six criteria for observing hijab:

i. Extent

The first criterion is the extent of the body that should be covered. This is different for men and women. The extent of covering obligatory on the male is to cover the body at least from the navel to the knees. For women, the obligatory level of covering is to cover the whole body except the face and the hands upto the wrist. If they wish to, they can cover even these parts of the body. Some scholars of Islam insist that the face and the hands are part of the obligatory extent of ‘hijab’. All the remaining five criteria are the same for men and women.

ii. Should not reveal figure.

The second criterion is that the clothes they wear should be loose and should not reveal the figure.

iii. Should not be transparent.

The third criterion is that the clothes they wear should not be transparent such that one can see through them.

iv. Not attract opposite sex.

The clothes they wear should be not be so glamorous as to attract the opposite sex.

v. Should not resemble the clothes of the opposite sex.

The fifth criterion is that the clothes they wear should not resemble that of the opposite sex.

vi. Should not resemble the clothes of the unbelievers.

The clothes they wear should not resemble that of the unbelievers i.e. they should not wear clothes that are specifically identities or symbols of the unbelievers’ religions.

IV. Hijab includes conduct and behaviour among other things

Complete ‘hijab’, besides the six criteria of clothing, also includes the moral conduct, behaviour, attitude and intention of the individual. A person only fulfilling the criteria of ‘hijab’ of the clothes is observing ‘hijab’ in a limited sense. ‘Hijab’ of the clothes should be accompanied by ‘hijab’ of the eyes, ‘hijab’ of the heart, ‘hijab’ of thought and ‘hijab’ of intention. It also includes the way a person walks, the way a person talks, the way he behaves etc.

V. Hijab prevents molestation

The reason why Hijab is prescribed for women is mentioned in the Qur’an in the following verse of Surah Al-Ahzab: “O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad); that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [Al-Qur’an 33:59]

Wasalam,
Hana
Reply

guyabano
02-28-2008, 12:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ lol where abouts is that?!

sounds like a peaceful area :)
See here

or here

Peace
Reply

aamirsaab
02-28-2008, 01:03 PM
:sl:
Veering off-topic, so I though I'll put in my opinion.

What would I do if I witnessed anti-muslim bias? Well, that's quite a funny question you see. I've heard and read a butt-load of anti-muslim crap, I went to a secondary school that had a 45% population of chavs (aka pikeys, rednecks, etc) so I've heard just about every muslim related insult there is - it can and is distressing, but I've learnt that just shrugging it off helps. Though that's part and parcell of my ubringing (thanks mum and dad!). In some cases I have answered back (online mostly as people who do it in real life, in leicester [possibly the most multicultural and tolerant city in the world] are nothing more than crackpots, so giving them a rebutal or reply is pointless - their intention is to goad and taunt, not to learn - same could be said for certain folk on the internet, whom I try to stay away from --- but sometimes, they need a 5 milligram dosage of reality, which I'm more than happy to give!).

So if I were to witness it again in real life, I'd probably just shake it off - it'd pee me off initially, but the comment is not a bullet - it's not going to hospitalise me or put me in a comma. It is a taunt or goad to intentionally make me feel angry and bad. I'll still be alive after the comment and it is not any real threat to me - so I am able to show disregard to the comment (though it doesn't mean they aren't hurtfull).

In cases where it is to someone else, I will be and am disgusted - it's not nice hearing someone slander or backbite someone else (i.e make them feel bad, kick them down the ladder, push them off their pedestal so you look like you're better than them etc). Online I have defended people who get backbitten or slandered. In real life, I tend to stay quiet when others are backbiting (heck I tend to stay quiet in pretty much all situations!) as I don't think it is neccessary to contribute whilst others are backbiting - it's not worth the trouble, plus silence is the greatest sound. Maybe that's a cop-out, but its how I deal with it and it works well enough for me :)
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AvarAllahNoor
02-28-2008, 01:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*

If that ever happened to me, I would give that person a piece of mind. I'm straight up and real, so If you've got a problem with me, then I'd prefer that you step to me and say it to my face.

Things like this have happened to me before, well similar incidents. And it's funny, 'cause the most racist people that I come across usually have the thickest accents.
I did just that! After the 7/7 attacks I was walking down Broad St and this caucasian chap gave me a dirty look, I continued to walk past and looked back at him. He then stopped and began insulting me, various things were said he referred to me as a 'paki' I listened and then gave him a mouthful, about how his ignorance of other faiths had made him look like a total prat!

I also pointed out to him I wasn't a 'paki' and all brown or people who wear a turban are NOT 'pakis' He he said ''well you all look the same'' I continued to listen to his gibberish and he had finished I called him a welsh pratt. lol - He said he wasn't welsh, I said you look the same to me too. That shut him up.
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Keltoi
02-28-2008, 02:17 PM
The first problem is they did this experiment in Waco, Texas. I don't know how many of you have ever been to Waco, Texas, but it isn't exactly a bastion of diversity. The only interesting thing I ever saw in Waco was the presidential helicopter taking President Bush to his ranch in Crawford. It's a relatively small town, and I seriously doubt they even have a Muslim population. So I think the "experiment" was flawed to begin with. I would even venture that the news crew probably already knew of this particular bakery owner's feelings toward Muslims. Why do I say that? Because news crews come in and out of that area all the time to cover Bush at his ranch...I would almost bet $100 that they had stopped there before and heard this guy talk about issues before. Sounds like a set up to me.

That doesn't excuse the man's behavior at all, I just think this particular bakery is a poor example of Americans in general.
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*Hana*
02-28-2008, 02:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
The first problem is they did this experiment in Waco, Texas. I don't know how many of you have ever been to Waco, Texas, but it isn't exactly a bastion of diversity. The only interesting thing I ever saw in Waco was the presidential helicopter taking President Bush to his ranch in Crawford. It's a relatively small town, and I seriously doubt they even have a Muslim population. So I think the "experiment" was flawed to begin with. I would even venture that the news crew probably already knew of this particular bakery owner's feelings toward Muslims. Why do I say that? Because news crews come in and out of that area all the time to cover Bush at his ranch...I would almost bet $100 that they had stopped there before and heard this guy talk about issues before. Sounds like a set up to me.

That doesn't excuse the man's behavior at all, I just think this particular bakery is a poor example of Americans in general.
No, no, you misunderstood about the bakery. The employee portrayed in the bakery was an actor. Everyone, except the customers knew it was staged.

However, I tend to agree that small town mentality can differ dramatically from larger centres. But, it was simply an experiment and still shocking such harsh views are accepted by so many.

Hana
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Malaikah
02-28-2008, 02:22 PM
Wait - I thought the bakery owner was an actor?
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*Hana*
02-28-2008, 02:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
Wait - I thought the bakery owner was an actor?
Yup, he was. Keltoi just misunderstood that.

Hana
Reply

Keltoi
02-28-2008, 02:28 PM
So the bakery owner and the woman were actors? That is sort of strange...

*Okay, the woman and a "sales clerk" were actors. It makes a little more sense now, although the geography of it is a little off for that kind of experiment. It's not even that small towns are the problem, because that sales clerk probably would have been assaulted in 2 out of 3 small towns...it's just Waco...that is a strange area.
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Muezzin
02-28-2008, 03:56 PM
They did something like this in the UK - 'Have a go Hero' or something like that. A few people did actually help out the headscarved actress - I remember one lady actually started shouting back at the actresses who were tormenting the headscarved actress.

It does depend on geography though. Certain areas of certain countries are a lot less tolerant than other areas in those same countries.
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*Hana*
02-28-2008, 05:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
It does depend on geography though. Certain areas of certain countries are a lot less tolerant than other areas in those same countries.
Yup, I agree, brother. Some areas of one country can be as different as an entire different country or culture. In my experience the deep South of the US compared to the North East or North West is totally different.

Wasalam,
Hana
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