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Mikayeel
02-29-2008, 11:18 PM
Asalaam alykum wa rahmat allah wa barakatahu!

This just came up my head, and i thought we better discuss it:)

To all none muslim, does the fact that there are soo many none-muslims converting to islam not bothering you? If you have heard their stories they all have something in common! (no matter what background they came from) They will include things like; we came from the dark to the light, If i had the chance i would of chosen this religion much earlia in my life, I found true peace.

These are not my words, but words of people who converted! So that does that not tell you a bit bout your self? That these people at one stage of there life were very sure about how they lived, untill they converted into muslims and they then admitted they where wrong??

I be honest if i heard so many stories about people converting into something and they all have roughly the same stories, i would look up into what why they are converting!

What do you guys think about that? I hope this made sense as it is very late and am very tired :) If you guys need video's or talk of people who converted I am more than happy to share it!(just if you need proof of what i am saying:) )
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Keltoi
02-29-2008, 11:46 PM
Honestly it doesn't matter to me how many people convert to Islam, faith isn't a numbers game to me. As for why they did it...well, you will get the same sentiments from people converting to Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.
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czgibson
02-29-2008, 11:50 PM
Greetings,

Interesting question. I'm sure we'll hear lots of different views about it. :)

Originally Posted by Hamada
Asalaam alykum wa rahmat allah wa barakatahu!

This just came up my head, and i thought we better discuss it:)

To all none muslim, does the fact that there are soo many none-muslims converting to islam not bothering you?
To be honest, I don't know how many people there are converting to Islam. Personally, I don't know anybody who has converted/reverted, so I can't say it's had an impact on my life. Plus, of course, the only thing splipperier than a statistic is a religious statistic, so it's difficult to tell what the situation is.

If you have heard their stories they all have something in common! (no matter what background they came from) They will include things like; we came from the dark to the light, If i had the chance i would of chosen this religion much earlia in my life, I found true peace.
I've read lots of convert stories from many religions, and they all share those themes. With a literary hat on, you could say they are the staple tropes of convert stories.
These are not my words, but words of people who converted! So that does that not tell you a bit bout your self?
I don't see how it could. Surely their words tell me more about them?

That these people at one stage of there life were very sure about how they lived, untill they converted into muslims and they then admitted they where wrong??
That certainly happens when people, for reasons best known to themselves, convert from one faith to another. You may have heard about Prof. Anthony Flew, former President of the National Secular Society, who became a deist.

I be honest if i heard so many stories about people converting into something and they all have roughly the same stories, i would look up into what why they are converting!
Lots of different faith-positions, no?

What do you guys think about that? I hope this made sense as it is very late and am very tired :) If you guys need video's or talk of people who converted I am more than happy to share it!(just if you need proof of what i am saying:) )
Please don't bring out the 'proof' word. Trust me, we've seen it and still aren't convinced.

Your question is an interesting one, and I hope it brings some discussion of just how many people are reverting to Islam. As to the implicit dawah intention expressed in your post, I'm not entirely sure that attempts to convert anyone will be successful at this stage.

Peace
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Mikayeel
02-29-2008, 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Honestly it doesn't matter to me how many people convert to Islam, faith isn't a numbers game to me. As for why they did it...well, you will get the same sentiments from people converting to Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.
Hmm oke thats your view, I am the type of person who is totally opposite:)

Yea i would of mentioned them (all the other religions) and ask people to look and see what they think, but since i am a muslim and Islam is my way I much rather show from an islamic point of view:)
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Mikayeel
03-01-2008, 12:02 AM
Hello czgibson
hmm, I have met alot of people who converted from what ever they believed in into islam! Considering cardiff isnt that big of a city.

If you are interesting i can show you people's talks who converted! So we don't rely to much on statistics, and you could hear it from them! I would like to refer to it as proof, because I don't know what else to call it.

Hmm, I live for the dawah thats my duty! If this here will act as a dawah to certain people then am not complaining! Also With the intention of raising a peacefull discussion
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Keltoi
03-01-2008, 12:02 AM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Hmm oke thats your view, I am the type of person who is totally opposite:)

Yea i would of mentioned them (all the other religions) and ask people to look and see what they think, but since i am a muslim and Islam is my way I much rather show from an islamic point of view:)
What I'm saying is that the sentiments you pointed out about "finding peace and the light" and so on is the same sort of thing you will hear from people converting to any faith...that is why their personal emotions about the experience aren't really all that important to me. I hear the same things from people who convert to Christianity. Personally I'm not as concerned with what religion one chooses, as long as one is sincerely looking to place God first in their lives. Of course as a Christian I hope they eventually accept Christ, but that should be obvious.
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FatimaAsSideqah
03-01-2008, 12:31 AM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. (The QurĂ¡n 2:256)

Hadith - Bukhari (#34), Muslim and Ahmad

Abu Kathir said, "I heard Abu Hurayrah say, 'Everyone who has heard of me, even Jews and Christians, has loved me. You see, I wanted my mother to accept Islam, but she kept on refusing. I would tell her that she should, but she would refuse. So I went to the Prophet and asked him to pray to Allah for her, which he did. When I went home to her that day, (I found that) she had closed the door. (Once I went inside,) She said to me, 'O Abu Hurayrah! I have embraced Islam.' When I gave the news to the Prophet , I asked him to pray for me and my mother. So he said, 'O Allah, Your servants, Abu Hurayrah and his mother, make them beloved to all people!'"

Sister Fatima
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czgibson
03-01-2008, 12:32 AM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Hamada
Hello czgibson
hmm, I have met alot of people who converted from what ever they believed in into islam! Considering cardiff isnt that big of a city.
Really? That's interesting. Can you give us some figures? I know quite a few people in Cardiff.

If you are interesting i can show you people's talks who converted! So we don't rely to much on statistics, and you could hear it from them!
Thanks for the offer, but I've seen plenty of them before, so I wouldn't want to put you through the trouble of putting up the link.

I would like to refer to it as proof, because I don't know what else to call it.
Whatever you do, don't call it 'proof'. The testimony of one person (or many) cannot, almost by definition, constitute proof.

Call it 'convert testimony' or 'stories from converts' or something similar.

Hmm, I live for the dawah thats my duty! If this here will act as a dawah to certain people then am not complaining! Also With the intention of raising a peacefull discussion
I think it's an attempt at dawah, so good luck with it anyway.

Amen to the peaceful discussion request.

Peace
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Mikayeel
03-01-2008, 12:42 AM
Salam alykum sister fatima, nice to see you join us:)

hello czgibson With figures do you mean names?

Hmm its the least i could of offered.

'convert testimony' proofs that there are people converting into islam! I love to have the word proof, gives it some certainty.
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FatimaAsSideqah
03-01-2008, 12:45 AM
Salam alykum sister fatima, nice to see you join us
No problem, brother of Islam. :)
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Gator
03-01-2008, 12:47 AM
Hi.
Originally Posted by Hamada
Asalaam alykum wa rahmat allah wa barakatahu!

This just came up my head, and i thought we better discuss it:)

To all none muslim, does the fact that there are soo many none-muslims converting to islam not bothering you? No. If you have heard their stories they all have something in common! (no matter what background they came from) They will include things like; we came from the dark to the light, If i had the chance i would of chosen this religion much earlia in my life, I found true peace.

These are not my words, but words of people who converted! So that does that not tell you a bit bout your self? No. That these people at one stage of there life were very sure about how they lived, untill they converted into muslims and they then admitted they where wrong?? No, that does not resonate with me.

I be honest if i heard so many stories about people converting into something and they all have roughly the same stories, i would look up into what why they are converting! I believe I know why they are converting. Like when people convert from Islam to Christianity, or theist to atheism. It makes more sense for them.

What do you guys think about that? See previous answers. I hope this made sense as it is very late and am very tired :) If you guys need video's or talk of people who converted I am more than happy to share it!(just if you need proof of what i am saying:) ) I've seen a lot of them.
Answers in blue above.

Thanks.
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czgibson
03-01-2008, 12:59 AM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Hamada

hello czgibson With figures do you mean names?
No, just numbers. How many people do you know in Cardiif who have converted to Islam in the last year, say? How many people in Cardiff do you think have converted to Islam in the last year?

I don't think I'd be able to hazard a guess, myself.

'convert testimony' proofs that there are people converting into islam! I love to have the word proof, gives it some certainty.

I'm sure you do
love to have the word 'proof', but you can't in all fairness use that word unless you do actually have proof.

Peace
Reply

Mikayeel
03-01-2008, 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


No, just numbers. How many people do you know in Cardiif who have converted to Islam in the last year, say? How many people in Cardiff do you think have converted to Islam in the last year?

I don't think I'd be able to hazard a guess, myself.



I'm sure you do
love to have the word 'proof', but you can't in all fairness use that word unless you do actually have proof.

Peace
I personally know about 7, thats only in my local masjid. I wouldn't have an idea of how many people converted in the last year.

Are you saying, that if i show you people who converted to islam.
Is not proof that these people converted into islam? Hmm
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Whatsthepoint
03-01-2008, 06:21 PM
As you said, people converting to Islam prove people are converting to Islam.
It does not prove Islam is the real thing or that it is any better than any other religion in existence.
IMHO, it proves how Islam is one of the few religions that have embraced the modern media, eg the internet, movies etc.
google "convert to Islam" or "Islam is the truth" and see the multitude of genuine results. Now do the same thing for Christianity or Sikhism. What can you see?
And it also proves there's a lot of IMHO guilable people who fall for the so called miracles, but this goes for every religion.

Most importantly, do you have any evidence that Islam attracts higher amount of converts than any other religion? Just because you know a couple of them in your local mosque, you can't claim there are "soo many" non-muslims converting to Islam. As far as you know, there could be much more converts in the local church. And anyway, one convert or born-again per one church is still more than, I don't know, 25 converts per one mosque, as there are much more churches in Wales than there are mosques.

I think Christianity is losing primarily to atheism and agnosticism as well as new age hippie relgions. Islam and the rest of the big religions grow mostly due to high birth rates.
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guyabano
03-01-2008, 07:53 PM
I respect people who convert to Islam. But Islam will never be for me something which I would like to join. And my life is nor sad neither empty. I have a very good life, financially as well as emotionally and socially. I raise 2 kids and we await a 3rd.
So can anybody give me a reason why my life would be more fulfilled if I was a muslim? I also found true Peace in my life. My wife and my children are my strenght, my light beacon in darkness, the rock in the seashore.

What I miss in the OP's post is, that many people convert to Islam, but also many leave Islam. At least, he has the courage to mention it. Sad to say, everytime I post a link about stats, they get deleted within 10 minutes pretending they are anti-islamic websites. Of course you will never find an pro-islamic website who will admit, that people leave Islam. Same for christians.

So far ***waving from the bright side of life***

Peace
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Whatsthepoint
03-01-2008, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
What I miss in the OP's post is, that many people convert to Islam, but also many leave Islam. At least, he has the courage to mention it. Sad to say, everytime I post a link about stats, they get deleted within 10 minutes pretending they are anti-islamic websites. Of course you will never find an pro-islamic website who will admit, that people leave Islam. Same for christians.
I don't think there are any neutral conversion statistics.
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Mikayeel
03-01-2008, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
I respect people who convert to Islam. But Islam will never be for me something which I would like to join. And my life is nor sad neither empty. I have a very good life, financially as well as emotionally and socially. I raise 2 kids and we await a 3rd.
So can anybody give me a reason why my life would be more fulfilled if I was a muslim? I also found true Peace in my life. My wife and my children are my strenght, my light beacon in darkness, the rock in the seashore.

Peace
I am gna ask u something now, nothing PERSONALLY BY ANY MEANS!!!! but say you where to loose your wife and kids!(may god forbid it!) may it never happen!!!, But lets say it did.

Since your family is your support!, YOur light in darkness, they make you who you are! What are you going to do then? Are you just going to give up on life?

No there has to be something bigger to support you!(being your true light!) In case you fall! Something not touched by death!

I hope this makes sense, I really don't mean to offend you!:), but just making a simple point clear.
thanks
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Whatsthepoint
03-01-2008, 09:30 PM
He could also turn to drugs and alcohol, but that's no argument for drugs and alcohol, is it?
Even if faith and religion were the cure for everything, that would not constitute a proof for the existence of God.
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ZarathustraDK
03-01-2008, 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
No there has to be something bigger to support you!(being your true light!) In case you fall! Something not touched by death!
But why does there have to be something bigger? The notion is, of course, pleasant, which is why one would want it to be so, but that does not by any length mean that it is so.

I want an icecream. *checks fridge*. Darn it, still no icecream in there. :exhausted
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Mikayeel
03-01-2008, 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
He could also turn to drugs and alcohol, but that's no argument for drugs and alcohol, is it?
Even if faith and religion were the cure for everything, that would not constitute a proof for the existence of God.
hmm, even though I wanted the answer from guyabano, I thank you for your effort.

What is it proof to then? Is it proof that half the world is blind, and need serious treatment?
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Mikayeel
03-01-2008, 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by ZarathustraDK
But why does there have to be something bigger? The notion is, of course, pleasant, which is why one would want it to be so, but that does not by any length mean that it is so.

I want an icecream. *checks fridge*. Darn it, still no icecream in there. :exhausted
Hmm there is something bigger, because i can see that, and you clearly cant.

Would you be kind enough to leave a comment about the actual question raised while your at it thanks:)
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Whatsthepoint
03-01-2008, 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
hmm, even though I wanted the answer from guyabano, I thank you for your effort.

What is it proof to then? Is it proof that half the world is blind, and need serious treatment?
No, I do not think faith is a disease, and if it is, it does not require treatment, at least in most cases..
Faith can be rather useful, as a form of self-treatment as you already pointed out.
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ZarathustraDK
03-02-2008, 03:31 AM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Hmm there is something bigger, because i can see that, and you clearly cant.
Well, that sort of argument leads nowhere very quickly, so let's not open up that discussion. Suffice to say, I disaggree on your requirements for something to be real.

Originally Posted by Hamada
Would you be kind enough to leave a comment about the actual question raised while your at it thanks:)
Ok, your question was more or less "what would I do if all the people I held dear died/disappeared for some reason?".
Well, more or less what I do now I guess, search for truth in life. Not much different from you I guess, although I would have to admit/be true to myself that I do not know whether or not there is a god, and take it from there. This point of view is not at odds with the possibility of a god since (I assume) a possible benevolent god would want me to realize his/her/its existence by my own accord instead of simply gambling my faith on a given esoteric text. Yet, it is not my goal to 'find a god', simply to find the truth, be it a god, no god, or anything else.

This is also why statements like 'I can see God, you clearly can't' strike an annoying chord in me. It's like saying 2+2=4 (or 5, depending on whether or not a god exist) and not be able to explain why in any better way than "well, the (possibly flawed) solution-list in the back of this math-book says so".
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Mikayeel
03-02-2008, 03:47 AM
Originally Posted by ZarathustraDK
Well, that sort of argument leads nowhere very quickly, so let's not open up that discussion. Suffice to say, I disaggree on your requirements for something to be real.



Ok, your question was more or less "what would I do if all the people I held dear died/disappeared for some reason?".
Well, more or less what I do now I guess, search for truth in life. Not much different from you I guess, although I would have to admit/be true to myself that I do not know whether or not there is a god, and take it from there. This point of view is not at odds with the possibility of a god since (I assume) a possible benevolent god would want me to realize his/her/its existence by my own accord instead of simply gambling my faith on a given esoteric text. Yet, it is not my goal to 'find a god', simply to find the truth, be it a god, no god, or anything else.

This is also why statements like 'I can see God, you clearly can't' strike an annoying chord in me. It's like saying 2+2=4 (or 5, depending on whether or not a god exist) and not be able to explain why in any better way than "well, the (possibly flawed) solution-list in the back of this math-book says so".
Hello there, I am sorry for my comment ''I can see god, and you cant'' there are alot of things that can show that god excist in fact to much to name!
If you want I can start writing them down from my perspective!
The reason I made this comment was not to get into an argument of ''Does god excist'' because I had to many of them here, and eventually they lead to nothing! Since i don't know you as you are new, am sorry I thought you'd be like the other atheists/agnostics here who are firm in their believes (I would say disbelieve IMO)

So agian if you would like me to state the things that makes ME believe that there is a god than I would love to.

With the actuall question I ment ''the fact that there so many reverts'' :), thanks for your answer anyway
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shible
03-02-2008, 05:55 AM
:sl:

Sorry Brothers and Sisters to Jump-in Late.

Hi Brother Hamada. As far here in our place. I haven't seen many of those such things.

But I don't know how all are gonna take it. But this is a true fact that was happening sometime back in India and i am not sure whether the same is still or not.

In India the people live in states like Gujrat, Bihar and some parts of Madhya Pradesh are still in Rural areas. and about 95% of them are Illetrate and Very Poor. They live in such a state that they use to have Mango seeds for Food and survival.


And the news here was that in those the Christian Missionaries First started a Welfare Association and told those villagers that they would educate their children and give money to those families that sent their children to study.

Due to their financial level the people accepted on the first two months they received money on their home.

On the third month the missionaries said they will give the money in the entrance of the church and gave the reason that this way all villagers can be gathered at one single point.

and on the coming months they took people inside the church and after a while they stopped giving money and said the people that if they would convert to their religion then they will increase the people life and financial status.

At this point most of the people had no choice but to turn towards their Offer. Now most people on those Regions are Christians


So How do u Brothers and Sisters feel about this incident. I wasn't sure of how this would fit in this thread. But I was sure that this is also a part of this Thread




:w:
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Whatsthepoint
03-02-2008, 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by shible
So How do u Brothers and Sisters feel about this incident. I wasn't sure of how this would fit in this thread. But I was sure that this is also a part of this Thread
:w:
It's plain awful!
That's from a non-christian perspective.
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crayon
03-02-2008, 12:58 PM
No offense to Christians, but in so many incidents you see missionaries bribing people to accept Jesus Christ. I mean, if your religion is true, why do you have to sell it to people? If you told them about it, wouldn't most of them accept it? I honestly mean no offense, it's just something that genuinely confuses me..
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guyabano
03-02-2008, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
I am gna ask u something now, nothing PERSONALLY BY ANY MEANS!!!! but say you where to loose your wife and kids!(may god forbid it!) may it never happen!!!, But lets say it did.

Since your family is your support!, YOur light in darkness, they make you who you are! What are you going to do then? Are you just going to give up on life?

No there has to be something bigger to support you!(being your true light!) In case you fall! Something not touched by death!

I hope this makes sense, I really don't mean to offend you!:), but just making a simple point clear.
thanks
Hello,

well, I think, that would be really worsest case, if all members of my family would die before me. Well if it would happen, then I would know there would a God exist, and it's all his fault and I would hate him more.
I will recover from my life. I will have a lonely life, for sure, but I would still have my friends and my job.

I hope, I could make it clear for you

Peace
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shible
03-02-2008, 04:17 PM
I really don't know all that is happening around the whole world.

But it is obvious that i have to know about things happening around my country. Since i am living here then i need to know things happening around me.

Thus i have no intention of hurting anyone.

Coz i can even bring a few things more related to such incidents that happen mostly on the borders of many nations. where the residents near by are threatened or bribed or tortured by the army personnel's to convert according to their nation's religion.

All we chat about is how far we can image of the worst cases. Yet we don't realize is abt those people who really happened to face those same cases in their day to day cases.
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Mikayeel
03-02-2008, 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
Hello,

well, I think, that would be really worsest case, if all members of my family would die before me. Well if it would happen, then I would know there would a God exist, and it's all his fault and I would hate him more.
I will recover from my life. I will have a lonely life, for sure, but I would still have my friends and my job.

I hope, I could make it clear for you

Peace
Hello,

Everyone's time to die will come! Its the most certain thing in life, so from that perspective you can't hate god for that! Everyone will die at one stage...

Its like when you have an exam and you sit, and you fail you blame the teacher for not helping you cheat.

I just wanted to make a point clear; that your job, family, friends and everything wordly have a certain amount of time before they vanish! So have your hope into something which will not vanish! Something that has always lasted and will always last!

I hope, I could make it clear to you too :)
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AvarAllahNoor
03-02-2008, 06:10 PM
I respect Islam and other religions. BUT i don't feel any need to convert, because my own religion of Sikhism gives me such fufillment it cannot be expressed in words. It's caters for my every need. Why would I then reject it and think, 'hmmm, Islam has gained a few more converts, perhaps that's the religion for all'' lol - I'm content.

One of my pal is a Chinese Sikh convert, he's quite shocked us Sikhs don't go around preaching to people of other religions. I've told him Sikhism isn't about quantity, it's about QUALITY! - You can have millions and millions of aderrents of a religion, but only a handful are true to that religion (practice it)

Gur Fateh :D
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ZarathustraDK
03-02-2008, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Since i don't know you as you are new, am sorry I thought you'd be like the other atheists/agnostics here who are firm in their believes (I would say disbelieve IMO)
Sorry to nitpick, but I'm absolutely firm in my knowledge that I do not know whether or not a god exists (as opposed to simply believing it to be so).

So agian if you would like me to state the things that makes ME believe that there is a god than I would love to.
Well, no :happy: . I'd like to know how you know that there is a god, as opposed to why you believe there is a god. Again, there is a difference between knowing there's icecream in the fridge and believing that there's icecream in the fridge (the latter could turn out to be false). But I guess I'm side-tracking the thread a bit.

With the actuall question I ment ''the fact that there so many reverts'' :), thanks for your answer anyway
Oh ok. Well it doesn't really bother me per se, people have a right to pursue whatever interests they have. However I think it's a bit strange to throw oneself at any religion simply for the sake of answers which a lot of people do. Again, a bit allegorical, I could say "why believe 2+2=4 because a book told you so, when you could master how to add all numbers by figuring out why 2+2=4?". I mean, it just seems almost like cheating/too easy to give up on figuring out why life is the way it is and kill off your ponderings in accepting a given scripture as the truth unquestioningly.
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