The sudden death

[FatimaAsSideqah]

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Sudden Cardiac Death

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) says " Among the portents of the hour is the suddened death"

AHA Scientific Position Sudden death from cardiac arrest is a major health problem that's received much less publicity than heart attack. The American Heart Association supports implementing the "chain of survival" to rescue people who suffer a cardiac arrest in the community. The adult chain consists of

• Early Access to Medical Care (calling 9-1-1 immediately)
  
• Early CPR
  
• Early Defibrillation
  
• Early Advanced Care

What is sudden cardiac death? Sudden cardiac death (also called sudden arrest) is death resulting from an abrupt loss of heart function (cardiac arrest). The victim may or may not have diagnosed heart disease. The time and mode of death are unexpected. It occurs within minutes after symptoms appear. The most common underlying reason for patients to die suddenly from cardiac arrest is coronary heart disease (fatty buildups in the arteries that supply blood to the heart muscle). About 335,000 people a year die of coronary heart disease without being hospitalized or admitted to an emergency room. That's about half of all deaths from CHD — more than 930 Americans each day.

Most of these are sudden deaths caused by cardiac arrest. What causes sudden cardiac death? All known heart diseases can lead to cardiac arrest and sudden cardiac death. Most of the cardiac arrests that lead to sudden death occur when the electrical impulses in the diseased heart become rapid (ventricular tachycardia) or chaotic (ventricular fibrillation) or both. This irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia) causes the heart to suddenly stop beating. Some cardiac arrests are due to extreme slowing of the heart. This is called bradycardia. In 90 percent of adult victims of sudden cardiac death, two or more major coronary arteries are narrowed by fatty buildups. Scarring from a prior heart attack is found in two-thirds of victims. When sudden death occurs in young adults, other heart abnormalities are more likely causes. Adrenaline released during intense physical or athletic activity often acts as a trigger for sudden death when these abnormalities are present. Under certain conditions, various heart medications and other drugs — as well as illegal drug abuse — can lead to abnormal heart rhythms that cause sudden death.

The term "massive heart attack" is often wrongly used in the media to describe sudden death. The term "heart attack" refers to death of heart muscle tissue due to the loss of blood supply, not necessarily resulting in a cardiac arrest or the death of the heart attack victim. A heart attack may cause cardiac arrest and sudden cardiac death, but the terms aren't synonymous. Can the cardiac arrest that causes sudden death be reversed? Brain death and permanent death start to occur in just four to six minutes after someone experiences cardiac arrest. Cardiac arrest is reversible in most victims if it's treated within a few minutes with an electric shock to the heart to restore a normal heartbeat. This process is called defibrillation. A victim's chances of survival are reduced by 7 to 10 percent with every minute that passes without defibrillation. Few attempts at resuscitation succeed after 10 minutes. If someone becomes unconscious, call 9-1-1 immediately.

They may be suffering from sudden cardiac arrest. What are treatments for survivors? If a cardiac arrest was due to ventricular tachycardia or ventricular fibrillation, survivors are at risk for another arrest, especially if they have underlying heart disease. Survivors of cardiac arrest must have all causes corrected to prevent future episodes. Possible causes include myocardial ischemia (inadequate blood flow to the heart muscle), arrhythmia (abnormal heart rhythm), etc. Possible tests and treatments include

• cardiac catheterization
  
• electrophysiologic tests
  
• coronary artery bypass surgery
  
• balloon angioplasty or PTCA
  
• antiarrhythmic medicine
  
• implantable cardioverter / defibrillator
  
• implantable pacemaker
  
• heart transplant

Eman Altahawy, MSc. Cardiology

Cardiology specialist, Ismailia General Hospital

Ismailia, Egypt

http://www.55a.net/firas/english/ind...&select_page=6

Sister Fatima

[ranma1/2]

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Sudden Cardiac Death

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) says " Among the portents of the hour is the suddened death"

....Sister Fatima

what is this hour you speak of??

do you mean the end of the world?

if so not impressed.

if he simply ment people will die suddenly well thats nothing new then or now.

death happens.

[Mikayeel]

what is this hour you speak of??

do you mean the end of the world?

if so not impressed.

if he simply ment people will die suddenly well thats nothing new then or now.

death happens.

The hour of truth! Its the day of judgment, the day your deeds will be revealed!

Sudden death in this sense is a death that comes spontaneous! Like am sitting here typing and i suddenly die. Yes its not something new, but the amount onto which it happens now is indeed something new!

[------]

:salamext:

if he simply ment people will die suddenly well thats nothing new then or now.

You are honestly not even funny. Are simply here to take the mick?! Read the article before u speak!

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[ranma1/2]

:salamext:



You are honestly not even funny. Are simply here to take the mick?! Read the article before u speak!

im not being funny im being serious and i did read the article.

As for more people dieing suddenly, i dont really think so, at least not in any unsual way.

We have better reporting of how people die than they did in the past, we have larger populations too. So nothign special.

And as stated before, people dying suddenly is nothing new.

What i find amazing is this constant dooms day thinking that has been going on forever and not one of them has been right so far.

[------]

:salamext:

LOL LOL LOL you'll be VERY surprised one day LOl ;D

[ranma1/2]

? is that some sort of pacal wages threat?

youll be surprised too when you find ouosah is the one true god. ;)

unless you mean sudden death and in that case i wont.

[FatimaAsSideqah]

? is that some sort of pacal wages threat?

youll be surprised too when you find ouosah is the one true god. ;)

unless you mean sudden death and in that case i wont.

Greetings

Who is that ouosah?? Please explain if you can. Just belief.

Peace

[aadil77]

? is that some sort of pacal wages threat?

youll be surprised too when you find ouosah is the one true god. ;)

unless you mean sudden death and in that case i wont.

who's ouosah?

[Mikayeel]

im not being funny im being serious and i did read the article.

As for more people dieing suddenly, i dont really think so, at least not in any unsual way.

We have better reporting of how people die than they did in the past, we have larger populations too. So nothign special.

And as stated before, people dying suddenly is nothing new.

What i find amazing is this constant dooms day thinking that has been going on forever and not one of them has been right so far.

One day or another my friend, u gna end up very surprised! The hour is near! Even if its a 1000 years away that is still very close!


He (God) will say, “How many years did you stay on the earth?” They will say: “We stayed a day or part of a day....” (Quran, 23:112-113) (this is talking about the hereafter)

And He has said:

Did you then think that We had created you in jest (without any purpose), and that you would not be returned to Us (in the Hereafter)? So, God is exalted, the True King. None has the right to be worshipped but Him... (Quran, 23:115-116)

remember these ayaat!


ye whos ouosah? Google does not know him!

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

what is this hour you speak of??

do you mean the end of the world?

if so not impressed.

:sl:

{And when it was said, 'Indeed, the promise of Allah is truth and the Hour [is coming] - no doubt about it,' you said, 'We know not what is the Hour. We assume only assumption, and we are not convinced.'" And the evil consequences of what they did will appear to them, and they will be enveloped by what they used to ridicule.}

Al-Jathiya; 32-33

[Dr.Trax]

youll be surprised too when you find ouosah is the one true god. ;)

LOOOOOOOOL ......I think you are freaked up man!

[ranma1/2]

As stated before, there have been millions of end of the world prophecies andso far none have been true. If you are worried about the world ending then i cna hold your cash till the world ends. Just send me a check and ill take care of the rest.

And Hamada can i borrow some cash from you. I can repay you in a very close time period. 　；）

[------]

:salamext:

^ You need to comtemplate over life. I've never met anyone as ignorant as you.

[ranma1/2]

i must have missed the end of the world. did it happen already. im pretty sure not one end of the world prophecy has come true. correct my ignorance please.

[------]

:salamext:

The world WILL end. You WILL be resurrected. You WILL be judged.

[khadija_007]

:sl:
Subhanalla, its quite scary,
...I was wandering is this the same sudden death that is affecting sports players/athletes bcoz recently football players have been dying on the pitch due to cardic arrest. Seeing as they are healthy i just find it wierd...
until next time :w:

[Mikayeel]

Here you have the truth, from ayaat clear as crystal! You choose to deny or accept them.


And warn them (O Muhammad SAW) of the Day of grief and regrets(day of judgement), when the case has been decided, while (now) they are in a state of carelessness, and they believe not
Qur'an 19.39


Woe, that Day, to those who deny. (10) Those who deny the Day of Recompense. (11) And none can deny it except every transgressor beyond bounds, (in disbelief, oppression and disobedience to Allâh), the sinner! (12) When Our Verses (of the Qur'ân) are recited to him he says: "Tales of the ancients!" (13) Nay! But on their hearts is the Rân (covering of sins and evil deeds) which they used to earn[] (14) Nay! Surely, they (evil-doers) will be veiled from seeing their Lord that Day. (15) Then, verily they will indeed enter (and taste) the burning flame of Hell. (16) Then, it will be said to them: "This is what you used to deny!" (17)
Muttaffifin

Strange isnt it? Its like these ayaat are speaking to u in a very unpleasent personal way.

[ranma1/2]

im still waiting for a end of the world prophecy to be shown that has come true.. is there any reason why i should trust your dooms day sayings over the past ones?

Heck muslims, christians and others have been predicting the end of the world since their creations.

[ranma1/2]

Oh and Ill still happily borrow cash from you to repay in a very close time frame..... (what did you say very close was....??)

[Mikayeel]

Oke ranma1/2 here are all signs of the day of judgement (minor signs)

you choose which ones already happend! (mind you these predicitions are lets say 1400 years old)

# The disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Ahmad)
# Books/writing will be widespread and (religious) knowledge will be low (Ahmad)
# Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Al-Haythami)
# When fornication becomes widespread among your leaders (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this will happen when the people stop forbidding evil) (Ibn Majah)
# Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open
# The consumption of intoxicants will be widespread (Bukhari & Muslim)
# Women will outnumber men……eventually 50:1 (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
# Killing, killing, killing (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Ahmad)
# The nations of the earth will gather against the Muslims like hungry people going to sit down to a table full of food. This will occur when the Muslims are large in number, but “like the foam of the sea”.
# People will beat others with whips like the tails of oxen (Muslim) ?The Slave Trade
# The children will be filled with rage (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Children will be foul (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Rain will be acidic or burning (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# When a trust becomes a means of making a profit (at-Tirmidhi, Al-Haythami)
# Gains will be shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor (at-Tirmidhi)
# Paying zakat becomes a burden and miserliness becomes widespread; charity is given reluctantly (at-Tirmidhi & Al-Haythami)
# Miserliness will be thrown into the hearts of people (Bukhari)
# Episodes of sudden death will become widespread (Ahmad)
# There will be people who will be brethren in public but enemies in secret (He was asked how that would come about and replied, “Because they will have ulterior motives in their mutual dealings and at the same time will fear one another.”) (at-Tirmidhi)
# When a man obeys his wife and disobeys his mother; and treats his friend kindly while shunning his father (at-Tirmidhi)
# When voices are raised in the mosques (at-Tirmidhi)
# People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed
# Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time
# The people of Iraq will recieve no food and no money due to oppression by the Romans (Europeans) (Muslim)
# People will hop between the clouds and the earth
# A tribulation will enter everyone�s home (Ahmad)
# The leader of a people will be the worst of them (at-Tirmidhi)
# Leaders of people will be oppressors (Al-Haythami)
# People will treat a man with respect out of fear for some evil he might do (at-Tirmidhi)
# Men will begin to wear silk (at-Tirmidhi)
# Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)
# When singers become common (Al-Haythami)
# People will dance late into the night
# When the last ones of the Ummah begin to curse the first ones (at-Tirmidhi)
# People will claim to follow the Qur’an but will reject hadith & sunnah (Abu Dawood)
# People will believe in the stars (Al-Haythami)
# People will reject al-Qadr (the Divine Decree of Destiny) (Al-Haythami)
# Time will pass rapidly (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
# Good deeds will decrease (Bukhari)
# Smog will appear over cities because of the evil that they are doing
# People will be carrying on with their trade, but their will only be a few trustworthy persons
# Wealth will increase so much so that if a man were given 10,000, he would not be content with it (Ahmad & Bukhari)
# A man will pass by a grave and wish that he was in their place (Bukhari)
# Earthquakes will increase (Bukhari & Muslim)
# There will be attempts to make the deserts green
# The appearance of false messengers (30 dajjals) (Bukhari)
# Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray & will lead others astray (Muslim)
# The conquest of Constantinople by the Muslims (Ahmad)
# The conquest of India by the Muslims, just prior to the return of Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon both of them)(Ahmad, an-Nisa’i, at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# When people begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings (Bukhari)
# There will be a special greeting for the people of distinction (Ahmad)
# The Euphrates will disclose a treasure (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that whoever is present should not take anything from it) (Bukhari & Muslim)
# Two large groups, adhering to the same religious teaching will fight each other with large numbers of casualties (Bukhari & Muslim)
# Wild animals will be able to talk to humans (Ahmad)
# A man will leave his home and his thigh or hip will tell him what is happening back at his home (Ahmad)
# Years of deceit in which the truthful person will not be believed and the liar will be believed (Ahmad)
# Bearing false witness will become widespread (Al-Haythami & Ahmad)
# When men lie with men and women lie with women (Al-Haythami)
# Trade will become so widespread that a woman will be forced to help her husband in business (Ahmad)
# A woman will enter the workforce out of love for this world (Ahmad)
# Arrogance will increase in the earth (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Family ties will be cut (Ahmad)
# There will be many women of child-bearing age who will no longer give birth.
# There will be an abundance of food, much of which has no blessing in it.
# People will refuse when offerred food.
# Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men Source.

[Azy]

About 90% of those have been applicable since the start of civilisation. They're all a bit general and would hardly count as prophecies.

[ranma1/2]

....
# Women will outnumber men……eventually 50:1 (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
...
....[/B]

this is about the only real one that is unusual.
apart from that, are you still interested in giving me that loan?
and im still not sure which doomsday prophecy came true. didte world end yet?

[johan]

this is about the only real one that is unusual.
apart from that, are you still interested in giving me that loan?
and im still not sure which doomsday prophecy came true. didte world end yet?

I believe that those are the small signs, that is the prerequisites.

The big signs as far as i can remember:
-A couple of signs need not be mentioned here..
-The emergence of Dajjal.
-The reappearance of 'Isa AS to kill the Dajjal.
-The talking of a certain animal to humans.
-etc.

I hope someone could point me to a good book on them though..

The end of the world itself should witness:
-The rising of the sun from the west
-The blowing off mountains the same way you can blow feathers.
-etc.

The point is, are u ready to cope with the truth when it eventually set forth to you? I hope the moment it does you still have the chance to repent, though it's unlikely the case.

[Azy]

# Books/writing will be widespread and (religious) knowledge will be low (Ahmad)

Would you consider this to be in conflict with your obligation to spread the message of God? If God has set it in stone that people will get less religious as time goes on, he's told you that and you're aware of it, what's the sense in you trying to convert people to Islam when according to that there won't be many truly religious people around.
The more people you convert, the further you get from your own prophecy.

[ranma1/2]

# The disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance vauge
# Books/writing will be widespread and (religious) knowledge will be low
vague and could be for anytime, id say knowlege now is being better retained than in the past. although if a society were to start to collapse the restirction,destruction of knowlege wouldnt be a surprise. (book burning, prevention of music, art ect....)


# Adultery and fornication will be prevalent .
# When fornication becomes widespread among your leaders
# Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open
# The consumption of intoxicants will be widespread (Bukhari & Muslim)

clearly a statment of what the speaker dislikes.


# Killing, killing, killing (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Ahmad)
nothing old, nothing new.

# The nations of the earth will gather against the Muslims
of course they would see this as the end of the world. however i dont see this happening and most religions eventually die off.


# People will beat others with whips like the tails of oxen (Muslim) ?
vague and nothing new at the time, although i like to think its less common these days.

# The children will be filled with rage (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Children will be foul (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)

vague and nothing new. speaker seems to have trouble with kids and women.


# Rain will be acidic or burning (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
neat. fire from the sky too? why do the end of the world stuff never go against type... (god decided to make earth paradise before he ends it.　Nope lets give em hell.)

# Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent
redundent from above, speaker still has personal issues.

# When a trust becomes a means of making a profit
# Gains will be shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor
# Paying zakat becomes a burden and miserliness becomes widespread; charity is given reluctantly
# Miserliness will be thrown into the hearts of people
# Episodes of sudden death will become widespread
# There will be people who will be brethren in public but enemies in secret
once again vague and nothing new.


# When a man obeys his wife and disobeys his mother; and treats his friend kindly while shunning his father (at-Tirmidhi)
once again this guy has issues, and vauge and nothing new.

# When voices are raised in the mosques (at-Tirmidhi)
Oh noos someone spoke in church, the end days are nigh....

# People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed
once again speaker comments on what he dislikes.

# Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time.
vague, and can be expected.

# The people of Iraq will recieve no food and no money due to oppression by the Romans (Europeans) (Muslim)
europeans, romans? which is it? also nothing new. fears of speaker perhaps related to the times.

# People will hop between the clouds and the earth
vague.
# A tribulation will enter everyone�s home (Ahmad)
well that might be expected, still vague.

# The leader of a people will be the worst of them (at-Tirmidhi)
# Leaders of people will be oppressors (Al-Haythami)
# People will treat a man with respect out of fear for some evil he might do
]vauge, nothing new.


# Men will begin to wear silk (at-Tirmidhi)
OMG did you see what he was wearing? once again dislikes of speaker. (silk feels quite nice mine you, perhaps you should try some silk boxers.)

# Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)
# When singers become common (Al-Haythami)
# People will dance late into the night
You know this by now, speakers comments on dislikes.

# When the last ones of the Ummah begin to curse the first ones (at-Tirmidhi)
Dont know what ummah is.


# People will claim to follow the Qur’an but will reject hadith & sunnah
once again, nothing new and speakers dislikes.

# People will believe in the stars (Al-Haythami)
Wow imagine that, stars are real.. OMG end times are Neigh....


# People will reject al-Qadr (the Divine Decree of Destiny) (Al-Haythami)
once again say it with me. speakers fears, dislikes..]

# Time will pass rapidly (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
huh?　vague. perhaps he ment time is subjective and as you have fun it passes quicker

# Good deeds will decrease (Bukhari)
to be expected as societies decline, i see nothing realy new about this.
as a matter of fact i think society over all has improved and more good is done in the past.

# Smog will appear over cities because of the evil that they are doing
evil? yes, thos evil pron clouds poping up all over the place, yesterday there was this weird cloud hanging over the concert hall.

# People will be carrying on with their trade, but their will only be a few trustworthy persons
# Wealth will increase so much so that if a man were given 10,000, he would not be content with it (Ahmad & Bukhari)
# A man will pass by a grave and wish that he was in their place (Bukhari)
# Earthquakes will increase (Bukhari & Muslim)
once again nothing new.


# There will be attempts to make the deserts green
I saw the movie Dune too...
Of course who wouldnt try to grow stuff in the desert if you lived there.


# The appearance of false messengers (30 dajjals) (Bukhari)
every religion pick your own false prophet.

# Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray & will lead others astray (Muslim)
Speakers dislikes.

# The conquest of Constantinople by the Muslims (Ahmad)
at best self fullfilling.


# The conquest of India by the Muslims, just prior to the return of Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon both of them)(Ahmad, an-Nisa’i, at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
1st part, self fulffilling, jesus not yet shown up, get backt o me when he does.


# When people begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings (Bukhari)
Babel reference and vague?

# There will be a special greeting for the people of distinction (Ahmad)
Yes sir! and vague and nothign new.
# The Euphrates will disclose a treasure
vague.


# Two large groups, adhering to the same religious teaching will fight each other with large numbers of casualties
vague too... and nothing new.

# Wild animals will be able to talk to humans (Ahmad)
Poly wanta cracker.... or are you meaning ants? Or perhaps you dang dirty apes....
Get back to me on this.

# A man will leave his home and his thigh or hip will tell him what is happening back at his home (Ahmad)
? why my ankle hurts when its going to rain. vague.

# Years of deceit in which the truthful person will not be believed and the liar will be believed (Ahmad)
# Bearing false witness will become widespread (Al-Haythami & Ahmad)
nothing new.

# When men lie with men and women lie with women (Al-Haythami)
well when women are 50-1 you have to expect new relationships to develope. seriously though, speakers dislikes again.

# Trade will become so widespread that a woman will be forced to help her husband in business (Ahmad)
# A woman will enter the workforce out of love for this world (Ahmad)
# Arrogance will increase in the earth (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Family ties will be cut (Ahmad)
# There will be many women of child-bearing age who will no longer give birth.
once again, vague, nothign new ect...

# There will be an abundance of food, much of which has no blessing in it.
huh? blessing in it? ill ahve to check the ingredients lable.

# People will refuse when offerred food.
well you shoulndt over eat, and vague.

# Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men Source. n othing new, speakers fears ect...

[Mikayeel]

ranma1/2 i dont know whether to laugh at your ignorance, or to laugh at your ignorance. I'll go for the latter one!

You need to understand that after islam was established none of these was occuring it all stopped. It is simply is telling that it will happen in abudance, guess what it is happening now..... and guess agian!! at time when islam was well established this wasnt the case!

Also to note out that this text, is obtained roughly 1400 years ago.

[Karina]

Please could you provide the sources for all of these predictions?

Thank you


.

[------]

:salamext:

^ They are in various hadiths sister, as shown on the end of them e.g. (Bukhari, Ahmad, Tabrani, Tirmidhi)

[ranma1/2]

ranma1/2 ..You need to understand that after islam was established none of these was occuring it all stopped. It is simply is telling that it will happen in abudance, guess what it is happening now..... and guess agian!! at time when islam was well established this wasnt the case!

Also to note out that this text, is obtained roughly 1400 years ago.

I think you should establish this claim. Provide evidence. till then i think its very fair to call the claim BS, reality seems to contradict it.

[------]

:salamext:

^ Dont u have anything better do ? I mean other than waste people time because u continue to be ignorant again and again?

www.islamreligion.com

^ You'll find all ur answers there

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) says " Among the portents of the hour is the suddened death"

could i please have a source for this hadith sis :sunny:

[------]

:salamext:

"ABD Allah ibn 'Amr said, "I went to the Prophet (peace be upon him) one day whilst he was performing Wudu' (ablution) slowly and carefully. He raised his head, looked at me and said, 'Six things will happen to this Ummah: the death of your Prophet - 'and when I heard that I was aghast,' - this is the first. The second is that your wealth will increase so much that if a man were given ten thousand, he would still not be content with it. The third is that tribulation will enter the house of every one of you. The fourth is that sudden death will be widespread. The fifth is a peace-treaty between you and the Romans: they will gather troops against you for nine months - like a woman's period of childbearing - then they will be the first to break the treaty. The sixth is the conquest of a city.' I asked, 'O Messenger of Allah, which city?' He said, 'Constantinople." (Ahmad.)

Source

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
^jazakallahu khair...

[ranma1/2]

:salamext:

"ABD Allah ibn 'Amr said, "I went to the Prophet (peace be upon him) ...He raised his head, looked at me and said, '

Six things will happen to this Ummah:
1 the death of your Prophet - 'and when I heard that I was aghast,' - this is the first.
2 The second is that your wealth will increase so much that if a man were given ten thousand, he would still not be content with it.
3 The third is that tribulation will enter the house of every one of you.
4 The fourth is that sudden death will be widespread.
5 The fifth is a peace-treaty between you and the Romans: they will gather troops against you for nine months - like a woman's period of childbearing - then they will be the first to break the treaty.
6 The sixth is the conquest of a city.' I asked, 'O Messenger of Allah, which city?' He said, 'Constantinople." (Ahmad.)

Source

so it looks like hamada was taking these prophecies out of context(imagine that), it looks like they are reffering to listeners nation/ummah.

I could argee that these are fair ideas of what may preceed the end of that nation but hardly the end of the world. (war, imagine that )

[Ummu Sufyaan]

so it looks like hamada was taking these prophecies out of context(imagine that), it looks like they are reffering to listeners nation/ummah.

I could argee that these are fair ideas of what may preceed the end of that nation but hardly the end of the world. (war, imagine that )

would you just get a grip! seriously, there's sections for these type of arguments. sheesh!!! and comin from a pro-darwinist :rollseyes

[Azy]

Since people are getting a bit tetchy, feel free not to answer this, but I am genuinely interested and i'm not just trying to stir it up.

You need to understand that after islam was established none of these was occuring it all stopped. It is simply is telling that it will happen in abudance, guess what it is happening now..... and guess agian!! at time when islam was well established this wasnt the case!

Also to note out that this text, is obtained roughly 1400 years ago.

I thought that the words said were supposed to hold true for all people for all time, otherwise why would people still be expected to follow it, and why would all people be judged in the final days... but it sounds like you're excusing it because of when it was revealed.
Yes while there may have been a small group of arabs who were following the teachings to the letter back in the day the whole rest of the world was acting as it always has done and most of these prophecies, particularly regarding behaviour, could have been fulfilled by non-muslims at any time in history.

I wouldn't mind some serious opinions on this, thanks

[------]

:salamext:

I wouldn't mind some serious opinions on this, thanks

I wouldn't mind if u used a bit of common sense, thanks.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Since people are getting a bit tetchy, feel free not to answer this, but I am genuinely interested and i'm not just trying to stir it up.

I thought that the words said were supposed to hold true for all people for all time, otherwise why would people still be expected to follow it, and why would all people be judged in the final days... but it sounds like you're excusing it because of when it was revealed.

Yes while there may have been a small group of arabs who were following the teachings to the letter back in the day the whole rest of the world was acting as it always has done and most of these prophecies, particularly regarding behaviour, could have been fulfilled by non-muslims at any time in history.

I wouldn't mind some serious opinions on this, thanks

no you are mistaken, the impac the revival of islaam had from the time of muhammad sallallahi alaihi wasallaam can even be seen today.

just from the fact that people even in this day and age are willing to give up their whole lives just to follow in their footsteps. And i know just in my little circle so many people, i wonder how many more are out there.

And the generation of the prophet is admitted to be the best, therefore it wasnt just a "small few" but rather a great many!

research....

[lillahi]

:salamext:

"ABD Allah ibn 'Amr said, "I went to the Prophet (peace be upon him) one day whilst he was performing Wudu' (ablution) slowly and carefully. He raised his head, looked at me and said, 'Six things will happen to this Ummah: the death of your Prophet - 'and when I heard that I was aghast,' - this is the first. The second is that your wealth will increase so much that if a man were given ten thousand, he would still not be content with it. The third is that tribulation will enter the house of every one of you. The fourth is that sudden death will be widespread. The fifth is a peace-treaty between you and the Romans: they will gather troops against you for nine months - like a woman's period of childbearing - then they will be the first to break the treaty. The sixth is the conquest of a city.' I asked, 'O Messenger of Allah, which city?' He said, 'Constantinople." (Ahmad.)

Source

Wa'aleikum essalam wr.. wb..

Wallaahi, today I cried because of sudden death of a good brother.
Whom I knew not much about, he only was a neighbour in my new locality.
He was happy talking and playing around, slept at about 1:30 am but after an hour complained about heart pain and immediately passed away onto His Lord.

I used to visit him now and then and we had a good understanding and friendship, but it so happened that I was not able to visit him for about last two weeks. And when I came to know about his sudden death, it made me so depressed that I can't express. It made me feel as if I was guilty of it! I did not visited him and he got worried.

This also reminded me of my own death, he was likely of my age about 19. The neighbours only say good about him. I wished I would also soon return back to my Lord and join His righteous slaves in His Paradise, to rest and satisfaction, being well-pleased with my Lord and He with me.

Please remember him in your righteous du'a, may Allah forgive his sins and keep him safe from trials after death.

Inna lillahi wa inna laihi raji'un
Surely to Allah we belong and to him we shall return.

[Mikayeel]

Since people are getting a bit tetchy, feel free not to answer this, but I am genuinely interested and i'm not just trying to stir it up.

I thought that the words said were supposed to hold true for all people for all time, otherwise why would people still be expected to follow it, and why would all people be judged in the final days... but it sounds like you're excusing it because of when it was revealed.
Yes while there may have been a small group of arabs who were following the teachings to the letter back in the day the whole rest of the world was acting as it always has done and most of these prophecies, particularly regarding behaviour, could have been fulfilled by non-muslims at any time in history.

I wouldn't mind some serious opinions on this, thanks

To me this doesnt make alot of sense to be honest. It does hold true for all people for all time, but can you understand that the day of judgement comes only ones?

Are you trying to say that for each nation there should be a different end of the world and a day of judgement? These signs only come towards the end of the world.

What i ment by 1400 years ago, is that these predictions are spot on with todays reality. While most of these predicitons were not even occuring back then.

[------]

:salamext:

@ lillaahi - ^ Be Patient my brother.... for if you will you will surely reunite with him in Paradise inshaaAllaah..AMeen... :)

[Mikayeel]

I think you should establish this claim. Provide evidence. till then i think its very fair to call the claim BS, reality seems to contradict it.

I can provide evidence from now till tommorow afternoon, but your going to find a way to question it (even if u had 2 make things up).

So I am going to ask you, what kind of evidence is going to satisfy you?

[barney]

Anybody name a year. Any year you like in history.
I can pretty much garuntee that I can point to all the end of the world signs happening in that period.
Call it a challenge.

Jesus said that before the last of the people who he was speaking to at the time died, (his diciples)They would see him come again in full power and glory bringing in the end of the world.

When the Muslims took Constantinople, The anti-christ would appear and all the end of the world stuff would happen:
Book 37, Number 4281:
Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The flourishing state of Jerusalem will be when Yathrib is in ruins, the ruined state of Yathrib will be when the great war comes, the outbreak of the great war will be at the conquest of Constantinople and the conquest of Constantinople when the Dajjal (Antichrist) comes forth. He (the Prophet) struck his thigh or his shoulder with his hand and said: This is as true as you are here or as you are sitting (meaning Mu'adh ibn Jabal).

But it kind of diddnt happen. At all, and that was centuries and centuries ago.
Either the Anti-christ is turning up fashionably late, or he's just not coming.

[Azy]

To me this doesnt make alot of sense to be honest. It does hold true for all people for all time, but can you understand that the day of judgement comes only ones?

Are you trying to say that for each nation there should be a different end of the world and a day of judgement? These signs only come towards the end of the world.

Yes I understand it comes once and no I'm not saying there should be a different end for each.

[/QUOTE=Hamada;923143]What i ment by 1400 years ago, is that these predictions are spot on with todays reality. While most of these predicitons were not even occuring back then.[/QUOTE]There were millions of people on earth at that time, while these things might not have been done by the people in the

For example look at the Roman Empire, we have fairly extensive records of activity from back then and you can see that adultery, public fornication, murder, intoxicants, greed, public exposure, arrogance, lies, indulgence, wars etc. were commonplace and continue to be so. If you have information that shows the rest of the world was behaving nicely during this time and at any time since then, I'd love to see it.

[lillahi]

:salamext:

@ lillaahi - ^ Be Patient my brother.... for if you will you will surely reunite with him in Paradise inshaaAllaah..AMeen... :)

insha'llah,
what do you felt about this? If you died because of someone... or wait if someone died because of you, I hope you can be happy and patient, insha'llah.

[------]

:salamext:

^ that person died because of you?

[lillahi]

I believe so

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ Allah knows best why he died.

unless you have proof, you'll be more at rest if you didnt assume :)

[------]

:salamext:

^ yeh..

[lillahi]

now what?

if someone died because of you, I hope you can be happy and patient, insha'llah.

???

[lillahi]

it do happens.. this is not strange, believe me you may also harm yourself because of someone.

So straightforward answer my previous question, so that I can be at rest.

[------]

:salamext:

^ DID I SAY HAPPY?!?!

I said PATIENT...and his DEATH was written...he would've died if u visited him or not...either way....it was written

[lillahi]

Okay so I hope you can be patient when someone dies because of you, insha'llah

[------]

:salamext:

Are u not listening to a word i SAy?!

he would've died if u visited him or not...either way....it was written

[lillahi]

Anyways, no onez gonna die because of you.

Motto of a Muslim's life is:
inna salaati wa nusuki wa mahyaaya wa mamaati lillahi Rabbil'alamin
Verily my worship, my sacrifice, my life and my death is for Allah the Lord of the worlds.

[------]

:salamext:

^ ur not listening man i give up

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I think you should establish this claim. Provide evidence. till then i think its very fair to call the claim BS, reality seems to contradict it.

I say the same about evolution:

"I think you should establish this claim. Provide evidence. i think its very fair to call the claim BS, reality seems to contradict it."

:D

[lillahi]

:salamext:

^ ur not listening man i give up

thanks alot, jazakillah kheiran

[ranma1/2]

I can provide evidence from now till tommorow afternoon, but your going to find a way to question it (even if u had 2 make things up).

So I am going to ask you, what kind of evidence is going to satisfy you?

i think it would be pretty easy for you to show that none of these were occuring at the time you said the were. Unless you were making things up.

[Azy]

Interesting way to prove a point.
"Yeah I have the evidence, but I'm not going to show you"

[Ummu Sufyaan]

^even if you were given evidence, would you evn take a bar of it....hmmm...

[ranma1/2]

^even if you were given evidence, would you evEn take a bar of it....hmmm...

So i gues thats a no.

Ill give you the criteria for evidnec.

Scientific.

There you go.

[------]

:salamext:

^ Not really.

[barney]

Are we debating that people dropping dead suddenly is a sign of the end times?

Diddnt they have heart attacks in the 1900's or 1800's, did strokes only occour in the late 20th century?

This is definatly one of those "chew your knuckles with your hands over your eyes "threads.

[------]

:salamext:

^ So are most threads where atheists come "debating"... *sigh*

[Ummu Sufyaan]

So i gues thats a no.

Ill give you the criteria for evidnec.

Scientific.

There you go.

dont twist my words. i didnt say it was a no. in fact if you look at my answer a lil more carefully, you'll realise that evidence is there, the 'even if you were given evidence' part. my question was would you take it, not if its there.

[ranma1/2]

dont twist my words. i didnt say it was a no. in fact if you look at my answer a lil more carefully, you'll realise that evidence is there, the 'even if you were given evidence' part. my question was would you take it, not if its there.

Im not twisting your words, im assuming that since you seem to be refusing to provide evidence or a link to one that you have none.
We will always except scientific evidence. So please provided it.

Perhaps in your answer you could highlight that evidence of yours, we seem to have missed it.

[barney]

It was last year matey. check out Strong City/ michael travasser. the worlds only living current prophet.
The world ended in October last year.

[Pen Marks]

# The disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Ahmad)
# Books/writing will be widespread and (religious) knowledge will be low (Ahmad)
# Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Al-Haythami)
# When fornication becomes widespread among your leaders (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this will happen when the people stop forbidding evil) (Ibn Majah)
# Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open
# The consumption of intoxicants will be widespread (Bukhari & Muslim)
# Women will outnumber men……eventually 50:1 (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
# Killing, killing, killing (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Ahmad)
# The nations of the earth will gather against the Muslims like hungry people going to sit down to a table full of food. This will occur when the Muslims are large in number, but “like the foam of the sea”.
# People will beat others with whips like the tails of oxen (Muslim) ?The Slave Trade
# The children will be filled with rage (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Children will be foul (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Rain will be acidic or burning (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# When a trust becomes a means of making a profit (at-Tirmidhi, Al-Haythami)
# Gains will be shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor (at-Tirmidhi)
# Paying zakat becomes a burden and miserliness becomes widespread; charity is given reluctantly (at-Tirmidhi & Al-Haythami)
# Miserliness will be thrown into the hearts of people (Bukhari)
# Episodes of sudden death will become widespread (Ahmad)
# There will be people who will be brethren in public but enemies in secret (He was asked how that would come about and replied, “Because they will have ulterior motives in their mutual dealings and at the same time will fear one another.”) (at-Tirmidhi)
# When a man obeys his wife and disobeys his mother; and treats his friend kindly while shunning his father (at-Tirmidhi)
# When voices are raised in the mosques (at-Tirmidhi)
# People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed
# Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time
# The people of Iraq will recieve no food and no money due to oppression by the Romans (Europeans) (Muslim)
# People will hop between the clouds and the earth
# A tribulation will enter everyone�s home (Ahmad)
# The leader of a people will be the worst of them (at-Tirmidhi)
# Leaders of people will be oppressors (Al-Haythami)
# People will treat a man with respect out of fear for some evil he might do (at-Tirmidhi)
# Men will begin to wear silk (at-Tirmidhi)
# Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)
# When singers become common (Al-Haythami)
# People will dance late into the night
# When the last ones of the Ummah begin to curse the first ones (at-Tirmidhi)
# People will claim to follow the Qur’an but will reject hadith & sunnah (Abu Dawood)
# People will believe in the stars (Al-Haythami)
# People will reject al-Qadr (the Divine Decree of Destiny) (Al-Haythami)
# Time will pass rapidly (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
# Good deeds will decrease (Bukhari)
# Smog will appear over cities because of the evil that they are doing
# People will be carrying on with their trade, but their will only be a few trustworthy persons
# Wealth will increase so much so that if a man were given 10,000, he would not be content with it (Ahmad & Bukhari)
# A man will pass by a grave and wish that he was in their place (Bukhari)
# Earthquakes will increase (Bukhari & Muslim)
# There will be attempts to make the deserts green
# The appearance of false messengers (30 dajjals) (Bukhari)
# Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray & will lead others astray (Muslim)
# The conquest of Constantinople by the Muslims (Ahmad)
# The conquest of India by the Muslims, just prior to the return of Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon both of them)(Ahmad, an-Nisa’i, at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# When people begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings (Bukhari)
# There will be a special greeting for the people of distinction (Ahmad)
# The Euphrates will disclose a treasure (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that whoever is present should not take anything from it) (Bukhari & Muslim)
# Two large groups, adhering to the same religious teaching will fight each other with large numbers of casualties (Bukhari & Muslim)
# Wild animals will be able to talk to humans (Ahmad)
# A man will leave his home and his thigh or hip will tell him what is happening back at his home (Ahmad)
# Years of deceit in which the truthful person will not be believed and the liar will be believed (Ahmad)
# Bearing false witness will become widespread (Al-Haythami & Ahmad)
# When men lie with men and women lie with women (Al-Haythami)
# Trade will become so widespread that a woman will be forced to help her husband in business (Ahmad)
# A woman will enter the workforce out of love for this world (Ahmad)
# Arrogance will increase in the earth (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
# Family ties will be cut (Ahmad)
# There will be many women of child-bearing age who will no longer give birth.
# There will be an abundance of food, much of which has no blessing in it.
# People will refuse when offerred food.
# Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men Source.
__

all of dese were from Hadith books so r u askin us to provide u the page number, hadith number...ext?

[Mikayeel]

They just ask for evidence get the hint! I believe no evidence will be sufficient for you guys, so no point showing it.

You took it with a pinch of salt did you not?

[ranma1/2]

all of dese were from Hadith books so r u askin us to provide u the page number, hadith number...ext?

Do you sincerly believe those are scientic evidence?
And hamada if you actually had scientific evidence i would think you would happily show us instead of rerfusing to. Heck provide the evidence so others can see it not just us. Imagine you could be showing other generations scientific evidence that your claims are true.

[Mikayeel]

Do you sincerly believe those are scientic evidence?
And hamada if you actually had scientific evidence i would think you would happily show us instead of rerfusing to. Heck provide the evidence so others can see it not just us. Imagine you could be showing other generations scientific evidence that your claims are true.

I truely do not know how to provide scientic evidence for the above ahadith.

Just to pick one out.

# People will claim to follow the Qur’an but will reject hadith & sunnah (Abu Dawood)

Now ranma here is a hadith (Abu Dawood) I would not have a clue on how to scientifically prove this to you! This hadith is quite old about 1400 years old, that time people followed the prophets(pbuh) sunnah aswell as the Quran, however now alot of people just claim to follow the quran and don't follow the sunnah propally.

The only science here is just to switch on your brain and think common sense.

[جوري]

They just ask for evidence get the hint! I believe no evidence will be sufficient for you guys, so no point showing it.

You took it with a pinch of salt did you not?

I must be missing something on this thread.. everyone is digressing all over the place... but what do we need to provide evidence for exactly?

If it is 'signs of the end' I suppose the only way to provide evidence is, if what was written/said actually materialized..

Does a scientific approach and a published Journal need to be out for that? lol

I published with a colleagues of mine an Indian fellow with awful bad breath named Atul, on Genomic fingerprinting using arbitrarily primed PCR and another one CD117 and gastrointestinal stromal tumors but I couldn't tie that together 'scientifically' with how the sun twinkled over Piney Run lake saturday and made the water sparkle like golden Jewels all the while contrasting it to the level of sparkle over the Hudson, I don't even think there is any good reason to...Some of the requests here are incongruous to the subject matter and frankly can only invite ridicule.... strange 'logic' that does not follow from any premise except perhaps for the sake of being disagreeable?...

:w:

[barney]

I must be missing something on this thread.. everyone is digressing all over the place... but what do we need to provide evidence for exactly?

If it is 'signs of the end' I suppose the only way to provide evidence is, if what was written/said actually materialized..

Does a scientific approach and a published Journal need to be out for that? lol

I published with a colleagues of mine an Indian fellow with awful bad breath named Atul, on Genomic fingerprinting using arbitrarily primed PCR and another one CD117 and gastrointestinal stromal tumors but I couldn't tie that together 'scientifically' with how the sun twinkled over Piney Run lake saturday and made the water sparkle like golden Jewels all the while contrasting it to the level of sparkle over the Hudson, I don't even think there is any good reason to...Some of the requests here are incongruous to the subject matter and frankly can only invite ridicule.... strange 'logic' that does not follow from any premise except perhaps for the sake of being disagreeable?...

:w:

Simply because if the receptor had bound to SCF and not formed a dimer, the the water would have sparkled like radient sapphires over the Mersey.

Duh!

[جوري]

Simply because if the receptor had bound to SCF and not formed a dimer, the the water would have sparkled like radient sapphires over the Mersey.

Duh!

oh.. since you've put it that way, you really sound like you know what you are talking about (work on the acronyms though)... definitely a topic for NEJM .. I hope the Muslims take heed and learn from your lead .. next time they write of the science of religion it should be journal worthy...

cheers

[barney]

oh.. since you've put it that way, you really sound like you know what you are talking about (work on the acronyms though)... definitely a topic for NEJM .. I hope the Muslims take heed and learn from your lead .. next time they write of the science of religion it should be journal worthy...

cheers

Huh? I havnt a freaking scooby doo what it all means, I just WiKied the whole lot.:D

[جوري]

I figured you a bit dyslexic but then thought perhaps you are a man ahead of your time and your thoughts simply leap faster than you can get it down on paper err web.. then I quickly shrugged that thought off...

yes the time for ---

is upon us again..with that I bid you (plural) g'night

peace

[Azy]

What people are getting at is that most of that list are things which Islam considers to be unrighteous or unholy. The rest of the world has not been righteous or holy according to those standards at any time in recorded history, they are just generic statements about human nature. If you can show us that people weren't greedy at any point, or didn't die from cardiac arrest, we're all ears.

As it stands, you might as well say that the prerequisites for the day of judgement are the sky being blue and the grass being green.

[جوري]

actually Abrahamiac religions make up a large chunk of the world's population and various ideologies share with us the 'universal truths' ahtiests in fact only make up 2% of the world's population, and I'd like to think that it is an essential constituent of human nature to at least try in part to be decent and adhere to the laws that govern what it means to be 'human' with or without God on board-- the point was never to show you that being greedy isn't a part of human nature, or being a sloth isn't part of human nature.. it is to have control over the desires of the lower self that elevates man's status and distinguishes him.. surely there is a difference between someone who studies hard and earns a B and someone who studies very hard and earns an A.. same thing with religion and morality..

this is from one of my previous posts..

there are gradtion of morality, that which is instinctive.. and that in and of itself is an expansive topic, for where has this inherent aptitude come from?
and there is the finetuned, calibrated sense of morality..
to make an analogy between surgery and pathology..
surgery is kind of a primitve art, the methods used today are really no different than those used in pharonic Egypt.. then there is pathology. A surgeon might take out that lump near your neck but it is the pathologist that tells you, this is a pleomorphic adenoma or this is warthin's tumor or this is an oncocytomas, not this is a lymphoepithelial lesion, it is an adenoid cystic, it is a mucoepidermoid carcinomas etc etc etc..
You can think of what religion is to morality as pathology is to surgery..

as for your last comment on heart attacks.. I am not following really... what does having or not having a heart attack have to do with religion, morality or scientific truths?

try to focus on what it is, you want the reader to understand, so we are not all struggling to designate meaning to arbitrary and reasonless statements!


cheers

[ranma1/2]

I truely do not know how to provide scientic evidence for the above ahadith.

Just to pick one out.

# People will claim to follow the Qur’an but will reject hadith & sunnah (Abu Dawood)

Now ranma here is a hadith (Abu Dawood) I would not have a clue on how to scientifically prove this to you! This hadith is quite old about 1400 years old, that time people followed the prophets(pbuh) sunnah aswell as the Quran, however now alot of people just claim to follow the quran and don't follow the sunnah propally.

The only science here is just to switch on your brain and think common sense.

How does this support your cliam that the end of the world is close?

A claim that people will reject a religion or parts of it is hardly new or revolutionary. Its vague in that it doesnt say when, how many people ect...
And as stated again its nothing new.
And I use my brain quite a bit, although one mans common sense is another mans insantity. I see it common sense that this "prediction" requires nothing and is no indicator of the end times.

Likewise if i said the end will be close at hand (didnt you or someone say 1000 years is close??) when rye is eaten with salmon and green cheese.

[ranma1/2]

..

this is from one of my previous posts..
as for your last comment on heart attacks.. I am not following really... what does having or not having a heart attack have to do with religion, morality or scientific truths?

..
cheers

well this has gone on one heck of a loop.
i think the heart attack is refence to the OP who seemed to be contecting heartattacks with "sudden death" and saying the sky is falling/ world ending.

[Azy]

as for your last comment on heart attacks.. I am not following really... what does having or not having a heart attack have to do with religion, morality or scientific truths?

Like ranma said, for that you'd probably have to ask the initial poster.

I'd like to think that it is an essential constituent of human nature to at least try in part to be decent and adhere to the laws that govern what it means to be 'human' with or without God on board

Agreed

-- the point was never to show you that being greedy isn't a part of human nature, or being a sloth isn't part of human nature.. it is to have control over the desires of the lower self that elevates man's status and distinguishes him.. surely there is a difference between someone who studies hard and earns a B and someone who studies very hard and earns an A.. same thing with religion and morality..

Yeah and my point was that this lack of control and lax morality is seen as a portent of the end times according to these signs.
It is at least disingenuous to suggest that these things hadn't been going on in great amounts for most of human history, people have never been very good at exercising control over their desires. Those B students have been around for a long time.

[جوري]

I am not sure whether or not you care about the Islamic perspective... I don't know whether you are here to learn or condescend? that being said... he the prophet (SAS) stated that as he was born the hour was already upon us and that was centuries ago... a day with God isn't a 'day' by our standards, so no one can pretend to tell you when that date of judgement is, and as stated in the Quran and several hadiths.. here an example from chapter 79 ..

يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ السَّاعَةِ أَيَّانَ مُرْسَاهَا {42}
فِيمَ أَنتَ مِن ذِكْرَاهَا {43}
إِلَى رَبِّكَ مُنتَهَاهَا {44}
إِنَّمَا أَنتَ مُنذِرُ مَن يَخْشَاهَا {45}
كَأَنَّهُمْ يَوْمَ يَرَوْنَهَا لَمْ يَلْبَثُوا إِلَّا عَشِيَّةً أَوْ ضُحَاهَا {46}

*****

(42) THEY WILL ASK thee [O Prophet] about the Last Hour: "When will it come to pass?"

(43) [But] how couldst thou tell anything about it, 17

(44) [seeing that] with thy Sustainer alone rests the beginning and the end [of all knowledge] thereof? 18

(45) Thou art but [sent] to warn those who stand in awe of it.

(46) On the Day when they behold it, [it will seem to them] as if they had tarried [in this world] no longer than one evening or [one night, ending with] its morn! 19

the knowledge of the last hour only belongs to the sustainer, who is very well acquainted with human psychology, as people ask of that questions as you can see from the centuries old book...

signs of the end however, come in 'small' and 'big' with all the 'small' ones having already taken place, while the big ones are starting to happen.. perhaps this is a very nondescript approach or follows from visceral logic to you, but for those who are following it, it is an affirmation and a confirmation of things to come. I don't expect that it should have the same impact on an atheist that it does on a Muslim.. and why would it?

cheers

[Dr.Trax]

The Sudden Death

By Abdudda’em Al-Kehail

Translated By Zakya Fellaata

Revised By Magdy Abd Al-SHafy

Introduction

Prophet Mohammad (Peace and blessing be upon him) said: (One of resurrection day’s signs is the appearance of abrupt death) (according to Attabarani). A scientific miracle appears in this prophetic tradition that will be proven by undisputable medical facts, this miracle certifies that Prophet Mohammad (peace and blessing be upon him) is a messenger sent by the almighty God, never utters by preconception (by his own inclination); lkcu89 each word he uttered was of God inspiration.

United Nations organization informs us everyday about numbers of those who die due to cerebral apoplexies and cardiac arrest, these numbers increase continuously, and statistics say that cardiac diseases are the main cause of death universally.

Through this research we will find that no one in Prophet Mohammad (peace and blessing be upon him) age could imagine that there will be a time in which the abrupt death increases except if the prophet was inspired by God ,who instructed him these sciences.

The First One to Study This Phenomenon Scientifically

The abrupt death phenomenon is relatively a recent phenomenon, and the first study of it is the study of Framingham (Framingham heart study), that began in 1948 AD, half of those who participated in this study are now dead , and their death cases have been studied precisely, and Framingham defines the abrupt death as it is the death which occurs within an hour after symptoms onset. It was found that several sudden death cases are resulted from cardiac coronary artery diseases which called Sudden Cardiac Death (SCD). He demonstrated that men within the age range of 45-75 years old who died of cardiac diseases, 60% of them have died suddenly!! (2).

The study also demonstrated that the abrupt death is due to a kind of a sudden disturbance that might be caused by psychological reasons, no matter what intensive care is taken, and even if the patient was to be rescued by all means, this kind of death achieves its task successfully! (2).

What is The Sudden Death?

There is an aphorism that Old people used to say , it says : causes of death are multifarious are several, but death always remains the same , so we can understand the common idea about (regarding) death in the past, that death is due to defined reason; for example sickness, accidents and suicide or other reasons, but to speak about uncaused death, that is the sudden death which wasn’t known in the past.

As recent medicine tools and systems have been developed , we could discover death reasons; cancer, epidemic diseases and infectious diseases are some reasons which indicate that death might occur, but the most important reason for death presently is the cardiac clot that occurs suddenly.

Scientists define the abrupt death that it is unexpected death that occurs during short period that doesn’t overtake one hour, and it was demonstrated that half of those who are infected by cardiac diseases will die abruptly! Most of sudden death cases are resulted from disturbance in the coronary artery.

Sudden death attacks patient even if he/she is inside the hospital; studies proved that 10% of patients die abruptly in the hospital and 90% of them die outside the hospital (7).

Statistics

The first cause of death in the United States is the cardiac disease; the cardiac clot which has the percentage of 28% of death cases. Reports affirm that during 2001AD 700 thousands humans died in the United States due to cardiac diseases! (6).

Yet, what are the numbers of those who die due to abrupt death? In the United States, 300 thousands humans die every year suddenly due to cardiac diseases. Statistics confirm that the rate of sudden death generally increases around the world and men are likely exposed to die suddenly three times more than women.

Sudden death occurs without any herald or signs of cardiac diseases. Although billions dollars are paid for cardiac diseases researches in the united states, and although they could reduce sudden death cases caused by cardiac diseases, sudden death rate is still constant (changeless)!(2).

Smoking and Psychological Depression

Smoking increases the probability of sudden death three times! That smoking is responsible for causing one fourth of coronal cardiac diseases (CAD) in the world, most of theses diseases end with sudden death.

Psychological depression affects the increasing of sudden death probability, also age affects the rate of increasing sudden death ; studies demonstrated that people are exposed to die suddenly during the forties and fifties and this period of human age is the period during which human is matured mentally enough , the chances of death for diabetic patients are so high (1).

Is There a Medical Therapy for This Phenomenon?

Most of doctors talk about treatment after apoplexy occurs, because they have no treatment till now for these dangerous apoplexies, in spite of that, the probability of escape is very few. Doctors confirm that the ideal (successful) way to prevent this kind of abrupt death is to ensure more stability for heart function (5).

The available treatment presently is to make the patient under intensive care, then to precede surgery, and even these steps aren’t workable except in some cases. Doctors recommend reducing sugar and cholesterol amounts in these patients’ diet which is also not workable in this case.

So what about those who don’t have idea about their condition and no one can predict if sudden death attacks them without any alert? What is their treatment? Medicine fails to predict their case, but, did the merciful prophet Mohammad (God peace and blessing be upon him) ignored them or he described remedy for them??

What Is The Prophetic and Koranic Treatment?

The Almighty God mentioned heart in many verses in the holy Koran. Hearts become sick and hardened , they become blind and scared and become secure, they deflect and become impure, and they understand and realize. So, heart is not only a pump, it is an integral system that controls the psychological stability in human.

Mentioning God is the best way to make heart secure, Allah says in the Holy Quran what means : {Those who believe, and whose hearts find satisfaction in the remembrance of Allah. for without doubt in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find satisfaction} (Arra’d (Thunder): 28). When a Muslim mentions his Lord, his heart will be stable and won’t suffer from disturbance; you can close your eyes and make your heart show reverence and fetch God’s Mightiness and say for example (no God, but Allah) and try to discover what feelings do you feel, don’t you feel that you are the most one who feel safe, secure and stability!

We found that sudden death is caused by abrupt disturbance in heart function (activity), therefore, doctors till now have failed to find out a treatment for this phenomenon, but Koran has solved it by this holy verse, so please imagine as you memorize the holy Koran by heart, won’t you expect that you’ll be the most psychologically stable among people?

Prophet Mohammad (pace and blessing be upon him) educated us a great prayer which he used to supplicate God with everyday; we imitate our merciful prophet and learn this prayer to supplicate God. Abu Dawood narrated that Prophet Mohammad (pace and blessing be upon him) said: " No plague is to suddenly inflict a man if he says (seeking protection from Allah )every morning and every evening " In the name of Allah that nothing under the umbrella of His name , either in heaven or on the earth , could harm (when seeking protection from Him ) as He is the Well-Knowing and Well-hearing ."

According to Attirmethey, Prophet Mohammad (pace and blessing be upon him) also used to supplicate God with this prayer: (Oh God, protect me in front of me and behind me, from my right side and my left side, and over me, and I seek the aide of you not to be assassinated from my underfoot side).

The Holy Prophetic Miracle facet

We can summarize miracle aspects in the following points:

1. No one was able to predict that sudden death will increase because no one could know this fact. But, since few years, scientists could precede precise statistics, and for their surprise, they got unexpected numbers; they found that the percentage of those who die suddenly is very high.

2. Scientists today say that sudden death phenomenon has just been studied for fifty years! It has been studied medically for the last twenty years, and scientists try to find tactics to prevent sudden death (4) because they are aware of the seriousness of this problem, yet they gain nothing, which means that this phenomenon is continuously increasing and scientists began to reveal the causes of sudden death, and that exactly what prophet Mohammad (peace and blessing be upon him) mentioned when he said: (One of resurrection day’s signs is the appearance of abrupt death

3. Some skeptics might claim that sudden death was known many years ago, so we say: sudden death wasn’t known during Prophet Mohammad (peace and blessing be upon him) time, because we find that poets and literary didn’t mention it in their poetries and writings and Prophet Mohammad (peace and blessing be upon him) considered sudden death as one of resurrection day’s signs. If sudden death was common in that age, skeptics would object to this prophetic tradition!

As we know that unbelievers used to criticize everything, so if sudden death phenomenon was common in that time and prophet Mohammad (peace and blessing be upon him) told them that this phenomenon will appear in the end of life on the earth which will be followed by resurrection day, they would astonish that prophet Mohammad (peace and blessing be upon him) considers common phenomenon as one of resurrection day’s signs!! So we can consider this prophetic tradition as a medical miracle for the greatest messenger Mohammad (peace and blessing be upon him) whereas he talked about a phenomenon which scientists discovered recently .

The occlusion

We’d like to terminate this research (paper) with a holy prophetic prayer which all of us ought to learn and memorize by heart: according to Albukhari, prophet Mohammad (peace and blessing be upon him) said: (Oh Allah , You are my god , There is no god but You . It is You Who has created me , I confess I am Your servant , and I will remain abiding my self to my commitment to You ( Being a believer and a servant ) as far as I could

Oh , my God , I ask your refuge from the repercussions of my deeds ,

I confess your succor and thebestow you granted me with

Oh , God ! Forgive my sins as no one could do that but You

Dear reader, will you be convinced of this prophetic remedy and memorize the prayer and try not to forget it at all?

References:

[1] Silvia G Priori, Douglas P Zipes, Sudden Cardiac Death, Blackwell Publishing, 2005.

[2] Ben Best, Sudden Cardiovascular Death, www.emedicine.com

[3] Ben best, Prevention of Cardiovascular Diseases.

www.emedicine.com

[4] Aliot, Fighting Sudden Cardiac Death, Blackwell Publishing, 2000.

[5]KrishnaC Malineni, Sudden Cardiac Death, www.emedicine.com, November 11, 2004.

[6] National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 53, No. 17, March 7, 2005.

[7] http://www.benbest.com/health/cardio1.html

By Abdudda’em Al-Kehail

www.kaheel7.com

[Azy]

I am not sure whether or not you care about the Islamic perspective...

Perhaps if you didn't act towards me in such a disdainful manner I'd be more inclined to do so.

so no one can pretend to tell you when that date of judgement is

I wasn't really asking for that and didn't expect it. The first post of this thread gave the impression that there was a link between cardiac arrest and the 'sudden death' prophecy. Can we say for certain what proportion of people died from what ailment in e.g. 1500ad? You tell me how long it takes for atherosclerosis to kill someone and would you say that it's sudden?

I don't expect that it should have the same impact on an atheist that it does on a Muslim.. and why would it?

I keep hearing stories about reknowned scientists and such who are stunned into believing by the accuracy of these predictions, so maybe it is meant to have a big impact. I'm not sure if it's just something about me, but I don't really feel it in the way these stories suggest I should.

[جوري]

Perhaps if you didn't act towards me in such a disdainful manner I'd be more inclined to do so.

I take my Q's from the conferrer and my responses are usually of the same acid caliber.. surely you've heard of ' to every action there is always opposed an equal reaction, equal to it in force, in opposite direction'?

I wasn't really asking for that and didn't expect it. The first post of this thread gave the impression that there was a link between cardiac arrest and the 'sudden death' prophecy. Can we say for certain what proportion of people died from what ailment in e.g. 1500ad? You tell me how long it takes for atherosclerosis to kill someone and would you say that it's sudden?

athersclerosis isn't the only cause of sudden caridac death.. there is Vfib, there is, Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome there is short Qt syndrome, there are drug reactions, there is hypertrophic obstructive cardiomyopathy, surely you've seen young athletes on the basketball court dribble dribble dribble die?

I keep hearing stories about reknowned scientists and such who are stunned into believing by the accuracy of these predictions, so maybe it is meant to have a big impact. I'm not sure if it's just something about me, but I don't really feel it in the way these stories suggest I should.

I believe people usually find what they seek.. if one is sincere in wanting to find what it all means or what are we here for, then truth is waiting out there for them to cultivate...
The Quran is meant as a science book, or a poetry book, or a geology book, or an embryology book, or a physiology book on high altitude hypoxia or an astronomy book.. yes you'll find references in there for all afore mentioned, but it is meant to ask you to reflect.. every sura will mention something that crosses most people's minds, and it speaks to audiences from all backgrounds, whether bucolic country oafs or scholars, there is always a verse that will make someone ponder.. but if one approaches it from an obtuse angle, I gurantee they will find nothing in there....


cheers

[Azy]

I take my Q's from the conferrer and my responses are usually of the same acid caliber.. surely you've heard of ' to every action there is always opposed an equal reaction, equal to it in force, in opposite direction'?

Not sure Newton intended it that way but I see your point.

athersclerosis isn't the only cause of sudden caridac death.. there is Vfib, there is, Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome there is short Qt syndrome, there are drug reactions, there is hypertrophic obstructive cardiomyopathy, surely you've seen young athletes on the basketball court dribble dribble dribble die?

Not the only cause no, but the most common.
The important thing here is, would you say that cardiac arrest is the 'sudden death' referred to in the list of signs, and why or why not?

[جوري]

Not sure Newton intended it that way but I see your point.

physics has a great many applications... that is what is so great about science...

Not the only cause no, but the most common.
The important thing here is, would you say that cardiac arrest is the 'sudden death' referred to in the list of signs, and why or why not?

I can't say.. there are many signs, minor ones are common, it is the major ones that pose more an interest to me.. tons of books written on the matter currently this is a topic that is outside my sphere of expertise....


cheers