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Izyan
03-25-2008, 08:32 PM
Iraqi raids anger Shiite militia


Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki supervises fighting in Basra
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The political movement of powerful Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr has launched a nationwide civil disobedience campaign across Iraq to protest raids and detentions against the group.

Tuesday's move came amid fierce fighting between Iraqi security forces and al-Sadr's Mehdi Army militia in the southern city of Basra, where at least 12 people have died and 32 others were wounded. Similar clashes also erupted in several of Baghdad's Shiite neighborhoods.

The discord also threatens to unravel a much-praised suspension over the summer of Mehdi Army militia activity, and its collapse could spark renewed sectarian violence and prompt the United States to delay any troop withdrawals.

The U.S. military says the cease-fire has led to a decrease of sectarian violence in Iraq, but the Americans and the Iraqi Army have continued to target Mehdi Army followers who have ignored the agreement. Read analysis on what the battle means

The Sadrist movement, however, believes troops have unfairly targeted militia members, and two days ago, tribal leaders affiliated with the movement came up with three demands for Iraqi government authorities: a halt in raids, the release of detainees and an apology.

But Nassar al-Rubaie, an al-Sadr official, told reporters on Tuesday that those demands were not met, prompting the group to call for civil disobedience, such as closing businesses and staying out of school, as well as street demonstrations. Watch as Sadrists call for protests ยป

"We call all citizens to join the civil disobedience," al-Rubaie said.

The movement has been upset lately with military operations targeting militia members, such as recent operations in the southeastern city of Kut, and the arrests of Sadrist movement senior leaders.

Al-Rubaie said government security forces comprise rival militias that have killed, tortured and arrested innocents.

Followers of al-Sadr have also been in the middle of intra-Shiite power struggles in southern Iraqi towns.

In Basra, the Sadrists, the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, and the Fadhila party have power and influence. Violent rivalries among Shiites have been predicted by many observers ahead of the provincial elections in Iraq, which are to be held by October 1.

Al-Rubaie tied the violence against the Sadrists to the provincial elections runup.

"The police and army forces are used for political reasons," al-Rubaie said.

In eastern Baghdad, clashes erupted between militia members and Iraqi soldiers in al-Hamza Square at the edge of Sadr City, a Mehdi Army bastion. Fighting then spread to other neighborhoods -- Sadr City, Shaab, Zuhor, Amin, Tobchi and Maamel.

An Interior Ministry official told CNN that gunmen attacked an Iraqi police checkpoint in the Maamel neighborhood of eastern Baghdad, also at the edge of Sadr City, and kidnapped six police officers.

Attackers wielding small arms in Tobchi attacked the office of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the influential Shiite religious figure, the official said. Iraqi security forces have gained control of the area and the office is under their protection.

In the southern Baghdad neighborhood of Abu Disher, the civil disobedience campaign took hold, with stores closing and protesters taking to the streets. The Interior Ministry said civil disobedience tactics were seen in five Baghdad neighborhoods.

The Mehdi Army members also appeared on the streets of Mahmoudiya and Yusufiya, towns south of Baghdad, in a show of force. And in Kut, local authorities imposed a curfew in light of the fighting in Baghdad and Basra.

There were no immediate details about casualties in Baghdad, and officials and clerics issued calls for calm.

In southern Iraq, security forces were battling Shiite militia members in the oil-rich city of Basra -- and Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was personally directing the operation, officials said.

A Basra city council official said the fighting erupted when security forces entered strongholds of the Mehdi Army militia.

Al-Sadr, a powerful and popular figure in Iraq's Shiite communities, in August announced a six-month suspension of Mehdi Army activity that was renewed last month. Many fighters have heeded the cease-fire, which the U.S. military says has helped reduce violence.

Followers of al-Sadr have also been in the middle of intra-Shiite power struggles in southern Iraqi towns. In Basra, the Sadrists, the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, and the Fadhila party have power and influence.

Residents of Basra earlier this month demonstrated for better security in the city, an area where kidnappings, murders and thefts have risen since British troops in December handed over responsibility for the province to Iraqi soldiers and police.

Other developments

At least four al Qaeda in Iraq members were killed in volatile Diyala province on Sunday in two military raids, the U.S. military said Tuesday.

One was wounded and eight others were detained in the operations, the latest in ongoing raids across the province -- where U.S. and Iraqi troops have been fighting insurgents, including the largely Sunni al Qaeda in Iraq group.

The military also reported a roadside bombing on Sunday that killed two children and wounded two civilians. It occurred in Khatoon, north of the Diyala provincial capital of Baquba.

Diyala is an ethnically and religiously mixed province that stretches north and east of Baghdad and borders Iran.

The U.S. military also said it had determined that six people killed and two people wounded in an American helicopter strike near Samarra on Saturday were prospective pro-U.S. militia members -- not "terrorists" as previously suspected.

Maj. Bradford Leighton told CNN that the people had been acting suspiciously "but it now appears that they were not doing anything wrong." He said that the strike could have been avoided if a local working to form a pro-U.S. militia group told American troops the men would be in the area.



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http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
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Izyan
03-31-2008, 01:43 PM
Bump
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Ninth_Scribe
03-31-2008, 06:07 PM
I'm getting live feeds on this as we speak but I can't make sense of it yet. From what I have been able to piece together, Muqtada al Sadr has claimed a no-confidence in Maliki's government and accuses another rival party of inflitrating it some time after his party staged a walk out. He also believes that he is being targeted by the U.S. who wants him out of the picture and has demonstrated their hold on Maliki. Al Jazeera claims he tried to contact Arab countries for support, but they mistrusted his motives. He ordered his men to fall-back because he feared American terrorism - eg; another Fallujah and didn't want to risk civilian lives lost by air strikes on Sadr City and other residential areas. It's all pretty messy, but he seems to believe this other Shia party was involved in the bombing of a mosque... in which two minerets were destroyed.

The Ninth Scribe
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Izyan
03-31-2008, 06:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
I'm getting live feeds on this as we speak but I can't make sense of it yet. From what I have been able to piece together, Muqtada al Sadr has claimed a no-confidence in Maliki's government and accuses another rival party of inflitrating it some time after his party staged a walk out. He also believes that he is being targeted by the U.S. who wants him out of the picture and has demonstrated their hold on Maliki. Al Jazeera claims he tried to contact Arab countries for support, but they mistrusted his motives. He ordered his men to fall-back because he feared American terrorism - eg; another Fallujah and didn't want to risk civilian lives lost by air strikes on Sadr City and other residential areas. It's all pretty messy, but he seems to believe this other Shia party was involved in the bombing of a mosque... in which two minerets were destroyed.

The Ninth Scribe
This is good, what terrorist act did the US enact on the people of Fallejah? Now be careful to remember you aren't the only person with non US contacts in Iraq.
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mediadave
03-31-2008, 06:22 PM
I can't believe that these militias have majority public support - especially given that (they seem to have) become little more than mafias. Since this is an Iraqi government initiative (apparently they didn't even tell the American's and British) and the Iraqi government is largely Shia, hopefully this situation will resolve itself without too much bloodshed. Sadr is too smart to launch a probably suicidal insurrection against the government, especially when he clearly wants politcial power himself.
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Izyan
03-31-2008, 06:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mediadave
I can't believe that these militias have majority public support - especially given that (they seem to have) become little more than mafias. Since this is an Iraqi government initiative (apparently they didn't even tell the American's and British) and the Iraqi government is largely Shia, hopefully this situation will resolve itself without too much bloodshed. Sadr is too smart to launch a probably suicidal insurrection against the government, especially when he clearly wants politcial power himself.
The uprising is already over. The Mahdi militia is laying down their arms.
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Ninth_Scribe
03-31-2008, 06:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
This is good, what terrorist act did the US enact on the people of Fallejah? Now be careful to remember you aren't the only person with non US contacts in Iraq.
Yes, but terrorism is just a matter of perception. Bush recently defined terrorists as people who were willing to kill to accomplish their agendas. Seems to me, he's been willing to kill to accomplish his in both Iraq and Afghanistan - so what's the difference?

Yes, I know, war is hell - and the poor civilians who are killed in the mix are forfiet, pure and simple. That was the established reality of Fallujah. Sure the military dropped lots of leaflets telling everyone to leave, but much like New Orleans, not everyone could... even with days of advance warning!

If Muqtada didn't fold, war-planes would take out Sadr City and they would simply blame the civilian death toll on the conflict as they have in the past. I accept the term "American terrorism" because America invaded Iraq without just cause and I would expect Iraqis to fight that injustice. It's a matter of diginity. I also have no-confidence in Maliki because he's just Bush with an Iraqi face.

Not everyone considers civilian lives as forfeit.

The Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
03-31-2008, 06:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mediadave
Sadr is too smart to launch a probably suicidal insurrection against the government, especially when he clearly wants politcial power himself.
Yes, the irony is very telling. It's been one of my critiques too. He only acquired power in office because the U.S. toppled Saddam, yet he complains when his power is limited by them. Apart from that contradiction, there is something about him that mystifies me. I just can't figure it out yet.

The Ninth Scribe
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Izyan
03-31-2008, 07:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Yes, but terrorism is just a matter of perception. Bush recently defined terrorists as people who were willing to kill to accomplish their agendas. Seems to me, he's been willing to kill to accomplish his in both Iraq and Afghanistan - so what's the difference?

Yes, I know, war is hell - and the poor civilians who are killed in the mix are forfiet, pure and simple. That was the established reality of Fallujah. Sure the military dropped lots of leaflets telling everyone to leave, but much like New Orleans, not everyone could... even with days of advance warning!

If Muqtada didn't fold, war-planes would take out Sadr City and they would simply blame the civilian death toll on the conflict as they have in the past. I accept the term "American terrorism" because America invaded Iraq without just cause and I would expect Iraqis to fight that injustice. It's a matter of diginity. I also have no-confidence in Maliki because he's just Bush with an Iraqi face.

Not everyone considers civilian lives as forfeit.

The Ninth Scribe
So are you admiting Ahmad Fadeel al-Nazal al-Khalayleh was a terrorist?
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Izyan
03-31-2008, 07:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Yes, the irony is very telling. It's been one of my critiques too. He only acquired power in office because the U.S. toppled Saddam, yet he complains when his power is limited by them. Apart from that contradiction, there is something about him that mystifies me. I just can't figure it out yet.

The Ninth Scribe
This is a Maliki operation not US. Actually the US was caught off guard.
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Ninth_Scribe
03-31-2008, 07:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
So are you admiting Ahmad Fadeel al-Nazal al-Khalayleh was a terrorist?
Certainly not! His position was defensive and he didn't invade Iraq, but he did answer the call for help in defending it against the invaders.

New Name?
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Ninth_Scribe
03-31-2008, 07:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
This is a Maliki operation not US. Actually the US was caught off guard.
Oh, I see... so those were Malikis fighter planes? :enough!:

The Ninth Scribe
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Izyan
03-31-2008, 07:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Certainly not! His position was defensive and he didn't invade Iraq, but he did answer the call for help in defending it against the invaders.

New Name?
No, I always read up on people who reply to my posts. I've lurked here for about 2 weeks before actually posting. As for Ahmad Fadeel al-Nazal al-Khalayleh, he is Jordanian and was not welcomed in Iraq. He is responsible for the death of my cousin because my uncle refused to join him. He wasn't Mujahid he was a worthless thug. My family saw what he and his men did and to us he was a terrorist.
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Izyan
03-31-2008, 07:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Oh, I see... so those were Malikis fighter planes? :enough!:

The Ninth Scribe
This was after 2 days of fighting between The Iraqi Army and the Mahdi Army. Originally this was all on Maliki.
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Ninth_Scribe
03-31-2008, 08:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
This was after 2 days of fighting between The Iraqi Army and the Mahdi Army. Originally this was all on Maliki.
At no time has this ever been on Maliki.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-31-2008, 08:24 PM
Sadr is in control the yanks know it!
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Izyan
03-31-2008, 08:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Sadr is in control the yanks know it!
No the Iranians are.
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Izyan
03-31-2008, 08:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
At no time has this ever been on Maliki.
What proof do you have of this?
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AvarAllahNoor
03-31-2008, 08:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
No the Iranians are.
Sadr is Iran. and vice versa.
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Ninth_Scribe
03-31-2008, 08:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
No, I always read up on people who reply to my posts. I've lurked here for about 2 weeks before actually posting. As for Ahmad Fadeel al-Nazal al-Khalayleh, he is Jordanian and was not welcomed in Iraq. He is responsible for the death of my cousin because my uncle refused to join him. He wasn't Mujahid he was a worthless thug. My family saw what he and his men did and to us he was a terrorist.
Well, that "terrorist" was encouraged by America to travel to Afghanistan, so I dismiss the whole "foreign" fighter debate, and he didn't just show up on his own accord. He was invited by an Iraqi group to help. Every group who has fought in Iraq has made mistakes and has been messy - but NONE of them invaded Iraq - that's all on Bush! I just wish you could have spoken to the man you're calling a worthless thug. He had some remarkable qualities and made himself available on forums because he wanted guidance. I'm sorry for your cousin, but that wasn't his fault. It's the fault of the scholars who teach that if your land is invaded you are duty bound to make Jihad to defend it - and, by the way... this happens to be America's belief too, only we call it a "draft" rather than a religious obligation.

My eyes were never on the soldiers (Mujahideen). My eyes have always been on the scholars because they command the Mujahideen. For heaven's sake 9-11 wouldn't have even happened had it not been for a scholar writing a permission to allow it. And I'm not in a position to pick and choose between the scholars for the ones who agree with me. I have to hear them all out, every last one. I'm not pleased with what I've heard, but this isn't for my entertainment.

The Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
03-31-2008, 09:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
What proof do you have of this?
Give me a day so I can compile the list... it's a very long one, but whenever Maliki is challenged, the United States steps in and calls the opposition a "terrorist" groups or rogue element - because Maliki is a good patsy for Bush and would never challenge him on anything. Not that it matters. Bush will always find fault with the Iraqi government no matter how it's configured, because his plans are permanant. So his people say the ISI hires an actor to put an Iraqi face on to hide it's foreign origin.. and I have to laugh because that's exactly how I view Maliki. Bush made a big deal about the cross-border raid in Ammon, Jordan - highlighting the fact that Zarqawi's men took out a wedding party and there was no military target... but Bush met with Maliki in Ammon within a week after Zarqawi's death and the U.S. has performed dozens of cross-border raids.. not to mention one of the very first victims of the Shock and Awe campaign (coined by a pervert, by the way) was an innocent wedding party!

I'm going to take a rest for now... the hypocrisy of it all takes it's toll on my nerves, but I will compile that list for you. If there's one thing I do extremely well, it's research!

The Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
03-31-2008, 09:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Sadr is Iran. and vice versa.
That's weird. He just asked Syria for help... not Iran. Iran is the one who told him to knock it off and chill out. But I find that sometimes reports are issued that aren't correct and many times I've had to wait months for the corrections to surface - so I guess this is a matter of "we shall see."

The Ninth Scribe
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AvarAllahNoor
03-31-2008, 09:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
That's weird. He just asked Syria for help... not Iran. Iran is the one who told him to knock it off and chill out. But I find that sometimes reports are issued that aren't correct and many times I've had to wait months for the corrections to surface - so I guess this is a matter of "we shall see."

The Ninth Scribe
Sadr was in Iran last year. and Ahmedijahd was in Iraq this year. They are bonded. Mehdi Army is a Shia belief more than a Sunni.
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Omar_Mukhtar
04-01-2008, 09:44 AM
It looks like Sadr outplayed Maliki at his own game. Sadr cleverly called for a peaceful end, whilst still keeping his guns. Moreover, Sadr is trying to position himself as a pan-Islamic-Iraqi leader, which he clearly isn't it........Maliki has been made to look like an American tool........this move was blunder for him.........
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AvarAllahNoor
04-01-2008, 10:57 AM
^^ Maliki is a yanky tool! - Sadr at least has courage and years of supression by Saddam, he's able to take some control. He's the one doing the leadership, Yanks thought they'd defeat them, but last five days showed them this isn't possible!
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Keltoi
04-01-2008, 01:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
^^ Maliki is a yanky tool! - Sadr at least has courage and years of supression by Saddam, he's able to take some control. He's the one doing the leadership, Yanks thought they'd defeat them, but last five days showed them this isn't possible!
Not possible? It is very, very possible...it's just messy, and not something Bush or Maliki want on the headlines right now. Maliki was the one actually pressing the issue, giving deadlines and promises of "fighting to the end". Mowing down militia is always messy, almost as messy as rooting out the "jihadi" types from urban areas. The point is to rebuild infrastructure, not create a parking lot.
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barney
04-01-2008, 01:52 PM
PM Brown announced that the planned withdrawal of Brit Troops is now delayed.

The 1500 troops that were going to leave now have to stay.
Well done Mhadi Army. You getting rid of the infidel by making them stay.


Sheesh.
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Keltoi
04-01-2008, 01:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
PM Brown announced that the planned withdrawal of Brit Troops is now delayed.

The 1500 troops that were going to leave now have to stay.
Well done Mhadi Army. You getting rid of the infidel by making them stay.


Sheesh.
Very true. I think many "jihadis" and the other factions have been misled to believe that the Americans and Brits will leave if the job gets too rough. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your point of view, that isn't the case at all. The thing about the Brits and Americans, in particular, is that they are stubborn. Basing a strategy on what occurred in Vietnam isn't going to work in Iraq. As I've said before, the NVA and Vietcong were a completely different animal than the enemies in Iraq.

Now the Brits are staying, to be stubborn, and the Americans will probably "re-surge" before the end of the year.
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Izyan
04-01-2008, 02:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Well, that "terrorist" was encouraged by America to travel to Afghanistan, so I dismiss the whole "foreign" fighter debate, and he didn't just show up on his own accord. He was invited by an Iraqi group to help. Every group who has fought in Iraq has made mistakes and has been messy - but NONE of them invaded Iraq - that's all on Bush! I just wish you could have spoken to the man you're calling a worthless thug. He had some remarkable qualities and made himself available on forums because he wanted guidance. I'm sorry for your cousin, but that wasn't his fault. It's the fault of the scholars who teach that if your land is invaded you are duty bound to make Jihad to defend it - and, by the way... this happens to be America's belief too, only we call it a "draft" rather than a religious obligation.

My eyes were never on the soldiers (Mujahideen). My eyes have always been on the scholars because they command the Mujahideen. For heaven's sake 9-11 wouldn't have even happened had it not been for a scholar writing a permission to allow it. And I'm not in a position to pick and choose between the scholars for the ones who agree with me. I have to hear them all out, every last one. I'm not pleased with what I've heard, but this isn't for my entertainment.

The Ninth Scribe
What does Ahmad Fadeel al-Nazal al-Khalayleh going to Afghanistan have to do with Iraq? Stay focused here. He is responsible for my cousins death because he was there when he ordered his execution for not joining his group. In the US military draft if you refuse to join you go to jail. In Al Queda if you refuse to join they kill and rape your sister in front of you. Do you know how much they have done to my family? They didn't work with the US, they weren't a part of the Shiite militia, they were just simple workers. So yes I considered Ahmad Fadeel al-Nazal al-Khalayleh a plague on Iraq and was glad of his demise.
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Izyan
04-01-2008, 02:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
PM Brown announced that the planned withdrawal of Brit Troops is now delayed.

The 1500 troops that were going to leave now have to stay.
Well done Mhadi Army. You getting rid of the infidel by making them stay.


Sheesh.
The British leadership is mostly to blame for the trouble in Basra. They knew the Iraqi police were not ready yet to take over but they were in such a hurry to hand over control.
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barney
04-01-2008, 02:24 PM
And of course the British are leaving their bases at night, dressing in Robes and re-equipping with AK47's then heading into Basra to slaughter people. This will be an excuse for them to stay so that the very last drops of Iraq Oil can go into british peoples cars. Oil prices are so cheap now in Britain that petrol has dropped to only 5 pence per gallon with all that stolen oil.
We are having to store all the oil in secret resovoirs that leak out onto Blackpool Beach.
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Izyan
04-01-2008, 02:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
And of course the British are leaving their bases at night, dressing in Robes and re-equipping with AK47's then heading into Basra to slaughter people. This will be an excuse for them to stay so that the very last drops of Iraq Oil can go into british peoples cars. Oil prices are so cheap now in Britain that petrol has dropped to only 5 pence per gallon with all that stolen oil.
We are having to store all the oil in secret resovoirs that leak out onto Blackpool Beach.
Point taken. I typed mostly but didn't really mean mostly. I meant partly to blame. The militias are mostly to blame.
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barney
04-01-2008, 02:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
Point taken. I typed mostly but didn't really mean mostly. I meant partly to blame. The militias are mostly to blame.
No worries. :D
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AvarAllahNoor
04-01-2008, 05:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Not possible? It is very, very possible...it's just messy, and not something Bush or Maliki want on the headlines right now. Maliki was the one actually pressing the issue, giving deadlines and promises of "fighting to the end". Mowing down militia is always messy, almost as messy as rooting out the "jihadi" types from urban areas. The point is to rebuild infrastructure, not create a parking lot.
Giving promises? Lip service. Means nothing. They know as you say, tackling Sadr isn't like taking over Iraq when they toppled Saddam. They need Sadr. We all know that. Not as a foe. :)
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AvarAllahNoor
04-01-2008, 05:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
And of course the British are leaving their bases at night, dressing in Robes and re-equipping with AK47's then heading into Basra to slaughter people. This will be an excuse for them to stay so that the very last drops of Iraq Oil can go into british peoples cars. Oil prices are so cheap now in Britain that petrol has dropped to only 5 pence per gallon with all that stolen oil.
We are having to store all the oil in secret resovoirs that leak out onto Blackpool Beach.
Haha, though I should not laugh. Off Topic. The ungodly indian police used to do that in india, during the troubles is in Panjab. At night dress as 'Sikh Militants' then force the way into Sikh homes, and expect to be served etc etc, then during daylight the dogs would return as police and interogate them and say you've had 'Sikh Militants' in your house why. then take them away and torture them and kill them in fake encounters. It's happening now too. Peaceful people just arrested for no reason whatsover. It's only a matter of time before Sikhs resort to the tactics of the late 80's and early 90's! :cry:
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Omar_Mukhtar
04-01-2008, 05:56 PM



NO comment:D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4262534.stm
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barney
04-01-2008, 11:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Omar_Mukhtar
I'll comment.
They were SAS scouting out terrorist strongholds.They had their uniforms , as you can see, under the robes. Thats a ruse of war.
They were not shooting up civilians or even Terrorists, they continue to spy today in similar ways. No surprises, no comparisons to make.
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Omar_Mukhtar
04-02-2008, 05:51 AM
if u say so..........
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