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Mikayeel
03-27-2008, 03:43 AM
Bismillah

:salamext:

I have been researching alot lately regarding the topic of polyandry (allowing a women to marry more than one partner), and to why Islam prohibits it.

One of the obvious reasons is that the father can't be identified, I have also heard that when a women has more than on partner she is more prone to catch STD (even if they are all faithfull to eachother).

Now i have been looking to confirm this, but I cant find a solid statement that confimrs this. So I was wondering if any one you guys/girls can make me any brighter concerning this.

Thanks

:wasalamex
Reply

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snakelegs
03-27-2008, 04:08 AM
she will not catch an STD if the men are free of it and if they all
are faithful. if none of them are infected to start out with and if none of them go outside the marriage, the only way any of them could get an STD would be through an infected needle.
yes, i assume the prohibition has to do with not being able to prove who the father is. also, it would cut down on the population, since a woman is limited how often she can have a child, and men are not.
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Asper
03-27-2008, 04:29 AM
Not to mention that one of the woman's roles in Islam is to be the obvious bearer and raiser of the children. Can't give birth/raise two babies, both coming from different fathers at the same time without a bit of difficulty, can you? :P
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Fishman
03-27-2008, 10:35 PM
:sl:
I think it was because the men were all being murdered or dying on the battlefield and their widows needed somebody to keep them company.
:w:
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2008, 10:45 PM
^^^ That does not apply today, so it should be BANNED!
Reply

Mikayeel
03-27-2008, 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I think it was because the men were all being murdered or dying on the battlefield and their widows needed somebody to keep them company.
:w:
Omg everything goes is very slow now!

Neway back to the point. What you are saying fishman is 'why men are allowed to marry more than one women'

This still applies today! As the number of women is significantly higher than men!
Reply

FatimaAsSideqah
03-27-2008, 10:58 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

First let us understand the Islamic position. Islam allows polygamy in certain cases but it does not allow polyandry, that is a woman having more than one husband, in any case. This is the legal position.

First, sociologically speaking, the institution of a family in a patriarchal set-up can operate effectively in case of polygamy but it would simply disintegrate under polyandry. For arguments' sake, it is possible to have polyandrous families in a matriarchal set-up, but this would mean a change in the entire social matrix.

Secondly, from a sexo-socialogical viewpoint, it is possible for a man to have sexual relations with all his wives, if he has more than one, and impregnate them. But if a wife has more than one husband, she can, even in that case, be impregnated only by one.

This should also be kept in view that once a woman is pregnant she is not available for sexual relations for some of the time.

Thirdly, even from the physo-sexological viewpoint this arrangement would be an anomaly. Of the many aspects let us just refer to one. If we examine the origin and not merely communication of venereal diseases, we find that they originate from a woman being sexually visited by more than one man. As long as there is a one-man one-woman relationship, venereal diseases would not originate. If a man has sexual contact with more than one woman but the woman with whom he is having this relationship is not in sexual relationship with any other man, venereal diseases would not originate. But if a woman has sexual relations with more than one man the possibilities of the origination of venereal diseases present themselves. It is the nature of things and a violation of this would disturb the entire scheme of life. Polygamy has a place in this scheme, polyandry has none.

Islam has forbidden polyandry not for any partiality towards man, but for the good of man and woman both and of the entire human society.

Sister Fatima
Reply

Whatsthepoint
03-27-2008, 11:15 PM
Both polygyny and polyandry should be banned.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
03-27-2008, 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by seeker_of_ilm
Should people be banned from having more than one partner (outside of marriage)...?
Yes.
I don't think adultery should be a punishable offence though, but rather a sufficient argument for divorce, in which the affected spouse would receive a higher percenatge of common property than the wrongdoer or somethng like that.
Reply

Mikayeel
03-27-2008, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Both polygyny and polyandry should be banned.
Polygyny should not be banned,

As i said the number of women is higher than man. In the UK its between the 4-5 million more female than male.

So assuming a male gets married to one female, then we have leftovers. I would guess that they would want partners to!

So in that case islam allows a man to get married more than ones. Its not recommended, but only the good ones can manage it! As it is hard to treat all wifes equally.
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Whatsthepoint
03-28-2008, 12:45 AM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Polygyny should not be banned,

As i said the number of women is higher than man. In the UK its between the 4-5 million more female than male.

So assuming a male gets married to one female, then we have leftovers. I would guess that they would want partners to!

So in that case islam allows a man to get married more than ones. Its not recommended, but only the good ones can manage it! As it is hard to treat all wifes equally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...#Age_structure
There's only about 700,000 more women than men in the UK. However, when it comes to mariage, there's more men than women, as the number of young men exceeds the number of young women.
And then there's places like India nad China where there's tens of thousands of men unable to find a spouse due to the lack of women.
So if anything should be legalized, it is polyandry.:skeleton:
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Whatsthepoint
03-28-2008, 12:49 AM
http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbagg
It seems both the overal world population and the world population fit for marriage are predominantly male.
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Mikayeel
03-28-2008, 02:40 AM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...#Age_structure
There's only about 700,000 more women than men in the UK. However, when it comes to mariage, there's more men than women, as the number of young men exceeds the number of young women.
And then there's places like India nad China where there's tens of thousands of men unable to find a spouse due to the lack of women.
So if anything should be legalized, it is polyandry.:skeleton:
Do excuse me, i thought the number was much higher.
Since when is there an age limit for marriage? The reason why there are more male than women (in India) is because parents used to kill there babies by abortion when they discovered it was a girl. I don't know if this is still practised
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aamirsaab
03-28-2008, 08:49 AM
:sl:

Polygamy = one husband with many wives. occurs mostly in tribunal companies where there is surplus of poor women. This is actually better for humanity in terms of growth population, but it is mainly done for the financial part since it occurs in poor contries

Polygandery = many husbands and one wife. This is actually worse for humanity in terms of growth population. It's only done in very few tribunal areas, mainly because the area is so poor and also because of surplus men.


So it is a matter of culture rather than politics.
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------
03-28-2008, 09:47 AM
:salamext:

Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Both polygyny and polyandry should be banned.
I agree.
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Malaikah
03-28-2008, 09:48 AM
Originally Posted by RighteousLady
If we examine the origin and not merely communication of venereal diseases, we find that they originate from a woman being sexually visited by more than one man.
:sl:

Do you have proof for this? I've never heard this before in my life (and I've studies STD's/STI's a fair bit).
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AvarAllahNoor
03-28-2008, 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
The reason why there are more male than women (in India) is because parents used to kill there babies by abortion when they discovered it was a girl. I don't know if this is still practised
It is, all over Asia! - Which leaves the point whatsthepoint is making true!
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Mikayeel
03-28-2008, 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
It is, all over Asia! - Which leaves the point whatsthepoint is making true!
What if you don't live in Asia?
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Mikayeel
03-28-2008, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:



I agree.
You agree that polygyny also should be banned?
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
03-28-2008, 03:07 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
What if you don't live in Asia?
The same. No amount of excuses can convince the majority, marrying more than one woman is anything less than sexual urges of the so called men in question! - It's to be BANNED! :raging:
Reply

Whatsthepoint
03-28-2008, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:
If we examine the origin and not merely communication of venereal diseases, we find that they originate from a woman being sexually visited by more than one man.
Do you have proof for this? I've never heard this before in my life (and I've studies STD's/STI's a fair bit).
I've never heard it before either, imo it's totally absurd. I wonder who comes up with all this?
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------
03-28-2008, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
You agree that polygyny also should be banned?
:salamext:

Yeh.
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Malaikah
03-29-2008, 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
The same. No amount of excuses can convince the majority, marrying more than one woman is anything less than sexual urges of the so called men in question! - It's to be BANNED! :raging:
This is ignorance. Historically polygamy has been essential for humans and for the welfare of women, not just to satisfy the urges of men. Especially in times were work was hard and dangerous labour and men would die much more than women, leaving their wives alone, and many times with children. They couldn't work because, firstly, the work force was male dominated and secondly because the work was not suitable for women in the first place. It was therefore very important for the welfare of such women that polygamy be practised, otherwise they would have no one to take care of them.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-29-2008, 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
This is ignorance. Historically polygamy has been essential for humans and for the welfare of women, not just to satisfy the urges of men. Especially in times were work was hard and dangerous labour and men would die much more than women, leaving their wives alone, and many times with children. They couldn't work because, firstly, the work force was male dominated and secondly because the work was not suitable for women in the first place. It was therefore very important for the welfare of such women that polygamy be practised, otherwise they would have no one to take care of them.
We have discussed this so many times. And we have different opinions. This is something I won't budge over, and neither will you (and those that are in favour) Lets agree to disagree. :statisfie

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh (The Pure Ones belong to God, Victory belongs to God)
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Ummu Sufyaan
03-29-2008, 10:34 AM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:



I agree.
:sl:
what? i disagree...(regarding polygyny i mean).:sunny: how come you think so?
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barney
03-29-2008, 11:00 AM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Bismillah

:salamext:

I have been researching alot lately regarding the topic of polyandry (allowing a women to marry more than one partner), and to why Islam prohibits it.

One of the obvious reasons is that the father can't be identified, I have also heard that when a women has more than on partner she is more prone to catch STD (even if they are all faithfull to eachother).

Now i have been looking to confirm this, but I cant find a solid statement that confimrs this. So I was wondering if any one you guys/girls can make me any brighter concerning this.

Thanks

:wasalamex

If everyone is faithful to the other it dosnt matter who has the polymarrage. It's entirely down to previous sexual history.

Men are just as likely to catch a STD. Thats just farcical.
Reply

*Hana*
03-29-2008, 11:37 AM
Originally Posted by RighteousLady
If we examine the origin and not merely communication of venereal diseases, we find that they originate from a woman being sexually visited by more than one man.
Salam Alaikum:

Sister, I'm not sure where you found this information or who provided, but it is not accurate. If there were 100 men and 100 women in a community and all were sexually active with the other, as long as all were STD free from the beginning, no one will suddenly develop STD or spontaneously erupt in disease. The STD has to be introduced by an infected person.

Wa'alaikum salam,
Hana
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Azy
03-29-2008, 02:36 PM
In the modern day there is no convincing reason for one to be chosen over the other. There are plenty of men and women who spend there entire lives single, childless and happy.
Even if the situation arose where a woman needed support from a man who was already married, why would she have to marry him, or even live with him? Is it not possible to extend help to the community if you are not legally bound to do so?
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Umar001
03-29-2008, 03:04 PM
I don't understand why do some feel that they need to tell everyone that they feel this should be banned and that should be this etc.

I don't think the topic is, 'do you think ... should be banned?'
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AvarAllahNoor
03-29-2008, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
I don't understand why do some feel that they need to tell everyone that they feel this should be banned and that should be this etc.

I don't think the topic is, 'do you think ... should be banned?'
One has to advise on a wrong practice. :D
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Mikayeel
03-29-2008, 05:32 PM
One has to be carefull what he calls a wrong practice.

Sister AhLÄÄM why do you want it banned? Whilst its clearly permitted in the quran?
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sur
03-29-2008, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Bismillah

:salamext:

I have been researching alot lately regarding the topic of polyandry (allowing a women to marry more than one partner), and to why Islam prohibits it.

One of the obvious reasons is that the father can't be identified, I have also heard that when a women has more than on partner she is more prone to catch STD (even if they are all faithfull to eachother).

Now i have been looking to confirm this, but I cant find a solid statement that confimrs this. So I was wondering if any one you guys/girls can make me any brighter concerning this.

Thanks

:wasalamex
similar thing discussed before:-
http://www.islamicboard.com/893917-post5.html
Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl
Can I try and answer this as a non-muslim who has often had this conversation with muslims? Also, as a bit of a feminist, some of these issues are quite dear to me. Here goes...

Equality does not mean that they are the same in every single aspect.

I always thought that they are equal, but in different ways. Men and women can (generally) do the same things, but in some cases, one gender can be better suited to carry out certain actions than the other. We are created equally, but complimentary to one another, as a team, we work better. It's a hard concept to explain. For example, even though women can train very hard to gain physical strength, men will be physically stronger if they put in the same effort. This doesn't mean some women aren't stronger than some men, but men and women's bodies are built differently.

As for the wife question, I have often wondered myself. There may be a few reasons. Here are some I have come up with:
Often men are the main breadwinners in the family (due to biological reasons: women cannot usually work for the entirety of their pregnancy and time to recover is needed. This can often affect you job/career and money coming in). So for a woman to have 1,2,3, etc husbands, it would put a lot of stress on her both biologically (constant pregnancies), socially (take care of children) and professionally (if she is often pregnant, then there is no time for work and money making). Men don't have to take time away from work when their family expands.
More along the line of biology, the survival of the species depends on procreation. The easiest way to procreate is to have a higher female:male ratio. It's basic biology and reproduction.
More on the social side: again, back to the breadwinner theory: Even though in many societies, women can and do work, in other societies it is not as readily accepted (now as was in the past). It can sometimes be very difficult for a woman to survive on her own if she is single, and even more if she is widowed. The situation in some countries is so bad that women have to resort to prostitution just to be able to feed their children. Marriage can be an option to alleviate this situation.

I hope I made some sense.

http://www.islamicboard.com/894348-post10.html
Originally Posted by sur

I'd like to add little more on WHY men can/want-to marry >1:-

"sexual DESIRE" also called 'Libido" is directly proportional to "Testosterone" level in BOTH males & females. So female sexual desire is also dependant on testosterone(male hormone) & NOT on estrogen/progesterone(female hormones).
Testosterone-Patches & sprays r available for frigid FEMALEs with decreased Libido problems.& Testosterone is also called Female Viagra.


Testosterone level Ranges:
Males:300-1000 ng/dl
Females:20-80 ng/dl


Suppose If a male has minimum level(300) within normal range & a female has Max. level(80) within normal range, even then the ratio will be almost 4:1 So a weakest-normal male has 4 times the desire to have sex than a strongest-normal female & that is why creator of all males & females has permitted 4 marriages for males.

While if both have average levels then male:female is 10-15 times. So an average male has 10-15 times more desire to have sex than an av female.
as far as STDs r concerned, i think that does NOT hold ground....
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Malaikah
03-30-2008, 02:56 AM
Originally Posted by Azy
Even if the situation arose where a woman needed support from a man who was already married, why would she have to marry him, or even live with him? Is it not possible to extend help to the community if you are not legally bound to do so?
Because a husband can support her in a many ways a stranger never can - especially emotionally.
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aamirsaab
03-30-2008, 10:40 AM
:sl:
The Quran allows polyandery in certain circumstances because it is neccessary at certain times and had been through certain points in history. One of those circumstances where it is allowed relates to orphans and who will parent them.

The ruling has very little to do with sexual desires. It is for certain circumstances only.
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Whatsthepoint
03-30-2008, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by sur
a very good reply.

I'd like to add little more on WHY men can/want-to marry >1:-

"sexual DESIRE" also called 'Libido" is directly proportional to "Testosterone" level in BOTH males & females. So female sexual desire is also dependant on testosterone(male hormone) & NOT on estrogen/progesterone(female hormones).
Testosterone-Patches & sprays r available for frigid FEMALEs with decreased Libido problems.& Testosterone is also called Female Viagra.


Testosterone level Ranges:
Males:300-1000 ng/dl
Females:20-80 ng/dl


Suppose If a male has minimum level(300) within normal range & a female has Max. level(80) within normal range, even then the ratio will be almost 4:1 So a weakest-normal male has 4 times the desire to have sex than a strongest-normal female & that is why creator of all males & females has permitted 4 marriages for males.

While if both have average levels then male:female is 10-15 times. So an average male has 10-15 times more desire to have sex than an av female.
Where exactly did you get your information from?
Let's suppose your findings are true... What should a man with 1000 ng of testosterone per dl do if he marries 4 women each having 20ng/dl? He'd be 12,5 times hornier than all of his wifes combined.
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barney
03-30-2008, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Because a husband can support her in a many ways a stranger never can - especially emotionally.
Does the actual act of marriage, if it is without love, as countless marriages are, mean a man can support a woman better? Methinks not.
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------
03-31-2008, 09:24 AM
edit
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-31-2008, 09:40 AM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:



Coz I just do. My choice.
if your a muslimah then you accept EVERY WORD OF THE QURAN! rejecting one single word leads to KUFR!

think twice next time you post something so serious!


Assalamu Alaikum

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
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Ummu Sufyaan
03-31-2008, 09:45 AM
:sl:
CHRIST calm down will u
ahem :(
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-31-2008, 09:47 AM
:confused:


ok sis i think you should seriously take a step back and breathe and think.

seek refuge in Allaah
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------
03-31-2008, 09:50 AM
:salamext:

i'm fine man

sheesh

stop behaving with me like i'm 5 or sumfing

ufff guys these days
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-31-2008, 09:52 AM
^ no im behaving like you in the manner i would behave with someone who stepped so close to kufr without realising it.


an-nabi sallallahi alaihi wasallaam was worried bout his ummah remember, like flies to a fire, the fires blazing for you right now sis ahlaam, so just be careful.

and seriously try get a more positive attitude. its not nice to react stubborn when people try help you
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Ummu Sufyaan
03-31-2008, 09:55 AM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:

i'm fine man

sheesh

stop behaving with me like i'm 5 or sumfing

ufff guys these days
:sl:
what would you do/how would you react if you heard someone say what you just said? would you be taken aback?
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------
03-31-2008, 09:57 AM
:salamext:

I didnt mean it in the way u people think! i just dont like the idea of men marrying more than once because NOT MANY men nowadays can treat people fairly! so stop jumping down my THROAT!!!!!!!!
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Ummu Sufyaan
03-31-2008, 10:02 AM
:sl:
for god sake, im not! seriously, you cant put something like that in a vague perspective (which you did, i may add) and not expect people to react...
just for the record, i was shocked at what you said in your edit. peace, sis....
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FatimaAsSideqah
03-31-2008, 10:45 AM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Let me first state emphatically, that the foundation of an Islamic society is justice and equity. Allah has created men and women as equal, but with different capabilities and different responsibilities. Men and women are different, physiologically and psychologically. Their roles and responsibilities are different. Men and women are equal in Islam, but not identical.

Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verses 22 to 24 gives the list of women with who you can not marry and it is further mentions in Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verse 24"Also (prohibited are) women already married"

Qur`an is the only religion on the face of the earth that allows men having up till four wives, Allah says in the Holy Qur'an:

[4:3] If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship.

Before the Qur`an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had many wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them.

In the same chapter (Sura Al-Nisa) Allah says in verse 129, Allah says:

[4:129] You will never be able to be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. Therefore, do not be so biased as to leave one of them hanging (neither enjoying marriage, nor left to marry someone else). If you correct this situation and maintain righteousness, Allah is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
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Azy
03-31-2008, 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by RighteousLady
If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have.
-
You will never be able to be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try.
Doesn't that whole paragraph seem like a contradiction to you? Why set a number of wives you're allowed if Allah himself knows and states you can't possibly be fair with more than one.

And regarding the MaiCarInMtl equality piece, that's so riddled with nonsense it isn't funny.
Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl
Often men are the main breadwinners in the family (due to biological reasons: women cannot usually work for the entirety of their pregnancy and time to recover is needed. This can often affect you job/career and money coming in). So for a woman to have 1,2,3, etc husbands, it would put a lot of stress on her both biologically (constant pregnancies), socially (take care of children) and professionally (if she is often pregnant, then there is no time for work and money making). Men don't have to take time away from work when their family expands.
1) A woman can have children if and when she wants, she doesn't need to be a baby machine for her husband(s). This situation could easily arise if she was one of many wives to one man.
2) Who said the women are obliged to look after the kids?
3) If you had 4 husbands and 1 wife surely you would be in a much better financial situation according to these rules.
Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl
More along the line of biology, the survival of the species depends on procreation. The easiest way to procreate is to have a higher female:male ratio. It's basic biology and reproduction.
The human race is hardly struggling to survive is it? Even if we did need to boost the population, by marrying more than one woman, you're not increasing the female:male ratio overall, just the ratio in that house.
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Mikayeel
03-31-2008, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
Doesn't that whole paragraph seem like a contradiction to you? Why set a number of wives you're allowed if Allah himself knows and states you can't possibly be fair with more than one.
Can a mother love all her childeren equally? NO, she might say she does, but there is always one who she loves more.

Same here, a man can marry 4 women in no way he will love them all equall!
That however does not mean he can't spent the same amount of time with them, he can't spent the same amount of money on them.

By the way islam is the only religion that sets an amount of women a man can marry. No other religion has it, rather now its something more cultural.
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FatimaAsSideqah
03-31-2008, 05:45 PM
Average life span of females is more than that of males By nature males and females are born in approximately the same ratio. During paediatric age however, in childhood itself a female child has more immunity than a male child. A female child can fight the germs and diseases better than the male child. For this reason, there are more deaths among males as compared to the females during paediatric age.

During wars, there are more men killed as compared to women. More men die due to accidents and diseases than women. The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers.

Even if every man got married to one woman, there would still be more than thirty million more females in USA who would not be able to get husbands (considering that America has twenty five million gays) I think! There would be more than four million females in Great Britain 5 million females in Germany and nine million females in Russia alone who would not be able to find a husband.

Thus the only two options before a woman who cannot find a husband is to marry a married man or to become public property. Islam prefers giving women the honourable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second. There are several other reasons, why Islam has permitted limited polygyny, but it is mainly to protect the modesty of women.
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Azy
03-31-2008, 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Same here, a man can marry 4 women in no way he will love them all equall!
That however does not mean he can't spent the same amount of time with them, he can't spent the same amount of money on them.
Are those the important aspects of marriage? You're simply ignoring the fact it says that you can't treat them equally however hard you try, and talks about a wife's happiness, which i doubt is measured in money and time.

Originally Posted by RighteousLady
For this reason, there are more deaths among males as compared to the females during paediatric age
UK Infant mortality example - The difference in sexes is about 500 per year for a population of 65 million.
Originally Posted by RighteousLady
The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers.
Undoubtedly, but are these widows are mostly of retirement age. Would they perhaps be better off being cared for by other family or professional care rather than marrying someone who would have trouble looking after himself, or taking on a much younger husband?
Originally Posted by RighteousLady
Even if every man got married to one woman, there would still be more than thirty million more females in USA who would not be able to get husbands (considering that America has twenty five million gays) I think!
What happened to the lesbians and where did you get that statistic? The USA has approximately 143m females and 138m males, a 5 million difference. 4 million of that difference is in the 65+ age range that I already mentioned (going by the US census website) .

If you look at census statistics there are roughly 120 single men for every 100 single women in the young adult range.

[/QUOTE=RighteousLady]Thus the only two options before a woman who cannot find a husband is to marry a married man or to become public property. Islam prefers giving women the honourable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second. There are several other reasons, why Islam has permitted limited polygyny, but it is mainly to protect the modesty of women.[/QUOTE]All well and good but why does it not allow a women to marry many men when they situation is reversed, as it is not at all an uncommon occurence.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-31-2008, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada

By the way islam is the only religion that sets an amount of women a man can marry. No other religion has it, rather now its something more cultural.
Incorrect, Sikhism says one wife (or husband) no more! :D
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Mikayeel
03-31-2008, 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
Are those the important aspects of marriage? You're simply ignoring the fact it says that you can't treat them equally however hard you try, and talks about a wife's happiness, which i doubt is measured in money and time.
You can't treat them equally when it comes to love! No these are not the major points of a marriage!

Can't treat them equally when it comes to love, does not say don't love them at all.
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Azy
03-31-2008, 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
You can't treat them equally when it comes to love! No these are not the major points of a marriage!
Exactly.
Originally Posted by Hamada
Can't treat them equally when it comes to love, does not say don't love them at all.
No, it says don't marry them because you know you can't treat them equally.
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sur
04-01-2008, 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Where exactly did you get your information from?
if u mean hormonal levels or role of testosterone in libido !!!! then i got it from medical books.

Let's suppose your findings are true... What should a man with 1000 ng of testosterone per dl do if he marries 4 women each having 20ng/dl? He'd be 12,5 times hornier than all of his wifes combined.
it was just to show men having more urge than women. Any ratio hopefully would be comforted with upto 4 wives.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
04-01-2008, 02:51 AM
:sl:

Polygynous Blessings: Musings of a Muslim Wife.
By: Aneesa Azeez

http://stores.lulu.com/poly_blessings
http://www.polygynousexpressions.com/index.html
Let it be known that my intent in writing this book has never been to highlight the faults and shortcomings of any individual; rather, my intent has been to clarify some of the common misconceptions of polygyny in Islaam, as well as provide a personal outlook on both the trials and the blessings of being a wife in a polygynous marriage, in order that my dear sisters in Islaam might find their hearts softened to the prospect of sharing a husband. If I have in any way offended anyone with my work, then I apologize, seek forgiveness for this and ask that Allaah Subhaanahu wa Ta’aalaa will pardon me for my shortcomings and forgive me my sins.
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Whatsthepoint
04-01-2008, 12:19 PM
Originally Posted by sur
if u mean hormonal levels or role of testosterone in libido !!!! then i got it from medical books.
it was just to show men having more urge than women. Any ratio hopefully would be comforted with upto 4 wives.
I was actually wondering were did you get the idea that the level of testosterone and sexual desire are exclusively and directly proportional.
The average ratio is more than 10, as you already spotted, so...
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Whatsthepoint
04-01-2008, 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Incorrect, Sikhism says one wife (or husband) no more! :D
buddhism discourages polygamy.
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MaiCarInMtl
04-03-2008, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
And regarding the MaiCarInMtl equality piece, that's so riddled with nonsense it isn't funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl
Often men are the main breadwinners in the family (due to biological reasons: women cannot usually work for the entirety of their pregnancy and time to recover is needed. This can often affect you job/career and money coming in). So for a woman to have 1,2,3, etc husbands, it would put a lot of stress on her both biologically (constant pregnancies), socially (take care of children) and professionally (if she is often pregnant, then there is no time for work and money making). Men don't have to take time away from work when their family expands.

1) A woman can have children if and when she wants, she doesn't need to be a baby machine for her husband(s). This situation could easily arise if she was one of many wives to one man.
2) Who said the women are obliged to look after the kids?
3) If you had 4 husbands and 1 wife surely you would be in a much better financial situation according to these rules.
Hi Azy, thank you for dragging me into this conversation: next time you would like to say I am speaking nonsense, please make sure that I am actually taking part of the conversation and if you have any questions or comments concerning what I said, address me directly so that I may further explain my points - it is easier to get your point across when no one is there to debate you. That being said...

1) Certainly women do have a certain amount of control over pregnancy, but you must also keep in mind that birth control isn't always readily available (depending on where one lives or their financial situation) or a safe option (back-alley abortions are often an option but are far from safe). If a man has more options, then chances are the frequency of pregnancies could possibly be lowered (seeking out other(s) while one is at peak fertility, etc).
2) I was talking about most societal contexts, not necessarily western context. I hate to burst your bubble, but females are still more likely to be assigned/take on the task of child care-taker. How many stay-at-home moms do you know? How many stay-at-home dads do you know? There is a major difference even in our "equalitarian" western society.
3) Yes, you would be! (there's no arguing that point).
Originally Posted by Azy
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl
More along the line of biology, the survival of the species depends on procreation. The easiest way to procreate is to have a higher female:male ratio. It's basic biology and reproduction.

The human race is hardly struggling to survive is it? Even if we did need to boost the population, by marrying more than one woman, you're not increasing the female:male ratio overall, just the ratio in that house.
Azy, please notice I was talking about biology and how reproduction and the body works, not about our current over-population problem. The human race wasn't always made up of 6 billion + people. Things change.

Also, I wasn't talking of increasing the female:male ratio, I was talking of increasing the population numbers. The best way to increase numbers is to maximize the fertility window: one male to many females. Trust me, they use it in breeding all the time because it works.

Perhaps you should go back to the original thread my post was taken from so you can better understand my stance on this whole issue. While I do understand that biologically it helps increase population numbers in a quick and efficient manner, and that in the context of most societies, it seems to be the system that works better than polyandry, I myself would never accept my husband to even conceive of doing something with another woman, much less marry another woman! I am firmly implanted in the "I do not share, I am not to be shared" way of thinking. Others can do what they will, but this rule will never change for me.
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Umar001
04-03-2008, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
Doesn't that whole paragraph seem like a contradiction to you? Why set a number of wives you're allowed if Allah himself knows and states you can't possibly be fair with more than one.
Would that not depend on the way fairness is understood? What we feel is fair treatment may not be what the author of the Qur'an feels it is.
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Azy
04-03-2008, 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
Would that not depend on the way fairness is understood? What we feel is fair treatment may not be what the author of the Qur'an feels it is.
What difference does that distinction make when god has dictated that you can't possibly be fair with them. I keep getting reminded that he knows best.

Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl
Hi Azy, thank you for dragging me into this conversation
Yeah, sorry about that, I think I got a little worked up when I was posting. Someone else quoted you and I couldn't really see how it was entirely relevant, as a few people here seem to like posting huge chunks of text without explaining their point.

Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl
1) Certainly women do have a certain amount of control over pregnancy, but you must also keep in mind that birth control isn't always readily available (depending on where one lives or their financial situation) or a safe option (back-alley abortions are often an option but are far from safe). If a man has more options, then chances are the frequency of pregnancies could possibly be lowered (seeking out other(s) while one is at peak fertility, etc).
It's not a great choice is it, but it still sounds like a case of a man just wanting to have his sexual release and then let the women deal with the outcome. Perhaps if he just kept it in his pants until his wife is ready.

Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl
2) I was talking about most societal contexts, not necessarily western context. I hate to burst your bubble, but females are still more likely to be assigned/take on the task of child care-taker. How many stay-at-home moms do you know? How many stay-at-home dads do you know? There is a major difference even in our "equalitarian" western society.
I fully appreciate that, but my point was simply that the only hard and fast rules are the ones made by men in a strongly patriarchal society. If daddy wanted to give mommy a break and look after the kids, that wouldn't be abnormal, but I can't see that happening in middle eastern cultures which folk on this board keep saying treat women more equally than the western world.
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