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View Full Version : Dutch MP posts Islam film on web
FatimaAsSideqah
03-28-2008, 12:09 AM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
Dutch right-wing politician Geert Wilders has posted a controversial film critical of Islam's holy book, the Koran, on the internet.
The opening scenes show a copy of the Koran, followed by footage of the attacks on the US on 11 September 2001.
The 17-minute film was posted on video-sharing website LiveLeak.
Its planned release had sparked angry protests in Muslim countries. Dutch PM Jan Peter Balkenende said the film wrongly equated Islam with violence.
"We believe it serves no purpose other than to offend," he said in a statement.
"But feeling offended must never be used as an excuse for aggression and threats."
The film is called "Fitna", a Koranic term sometimes translated as "strife".
Dutch broadcasters have declined to show the production by 44-year-old Freedom Party (PVV) leader Mr Wilders, who lives under police protection because of earlier death threats.
'Spiteful'
Graphic images from the bomb attacks on London in July 2005 and Madrid in March 2004 are shown.
Pictures of a woman being stoned, scenes from a beheading and images of the Dutch director Theo van Gogh, who was murdered by a radical Islamist in 2004, are also included.
And pictures appearing to show Muslim demonstrators holding up placards saying "God bless Hitler" and "Freedom go to hell" also feature.
The film shows a young girl in a headscarf making derogatory comments about Jewish people.
It also displays a graph showing how the number of Muslims in the Netherlands and Europe has grown.
The film ends with someone turning pages of a Koran, followed by a tearing sound.
A text that appears on the screen says: "The sound you heard was from a page (being torn from a) phone book.
"It is not up to me, but up to the Muslims themselves to tear the spiteful verses from the Koran."
The film concludes: "Stop Islamisation. Defend our freedom."
Two years ago the publication in Denmark of cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad sparked protests across the Muslim world.
But Brahim Bourzik, a spokesman for a Dutch Moroccan group, told Reuters news agency he did not believe Mr Wilders' film would spark fury from Muslims in Holland.
"It is not a film, it is propaganda," he said. "All the elements have been seen before, there is nothing new in it."
The UK-based website which allowed the film to be posted online defended its decision on Thursday.
"LiveLeak.com has a strict stance on remaining unbiased and allowing freedom of speech so far as the law and our rules allow," it said in a statement posted online.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7317506.stm
ReplyDutch right-wing politician Geert Wilders has posted a controversial film critical of Islam's holy book, the Koran, on the internet.
The opening scenes show a copy of the Koran, followed by footage of the attacks on the US on 11 September 2001.
The 17-minute film was posted on video-sharing website LiveLeak.
Its planned release had sparked angry protests in Muslim countries. Dutch PM Jan Peter Balkenende said the film wrongly equated Islam with violence.
"We believe it serves no purpose other than to offend," he said in a statement.
"But feeling offended must never be used as an excuse for aggression and threats."
The film is called "Fitna", a Koranic term sometimes translated as "strife".
Dutch broadcasters have declined to show the production by 44-year-old Freedom Party (PVV) leader Mr Wilders, who lives under police protection because of earlier death threats.
'Spiteful'
Graphic images from the bomb attacks on London in July 2005 and Madrid in March 2004 are shown.
Pictures of a woman being stoned, scenes from a beheading and images of the Dutch director Theo van Gogh, who was murdered by a radical Islamist in 2004, are also included.
And pictures appearing to show Muslim demonstrators holding up placards saying "God bless Hitler" and "Freedom go to hell" also feature.
The film shows a young girl in a headscarf making derogatory comments about Jewish people.
It also displays a graph showing how the number of Muslims in the Netherlands and Europe has grown.
The film ends with someone turning pages of a Koran, followed by a tearing sound.
A text that appears on the screen says: "The sound you heard was from a page (being torn from a) phone book.
"It is not up to me, but up to the Muslims themselves to tear the spiteful verses from the Koran."
The film concludes: "Stop Islamisation. Defend our freedom."
Two years ago the publication in Denmark of cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad sparked protests across the Muslim world.
But Brahim Bourzik, a spokesman for a Dutch Moroccan group, told Reuters news agency he did not believe Mr Wilders' film would spark fury from Muslims in Holland.
"It is not a film, it is propaganda," he said. "All the elements have been seen before, there is nothing new in it."
The UK-based website which allowed the film to be posted online defended its decision on Thursday.
"LiveLeak.com has a strict stance on remaining unbiased and allowing freedom of speech so far as the law and our rules allow," it said in a statement posted online.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7317506.stm
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al Amaanah
03-28-2008, 12:20 AM
sick man wallahi. may Allah guide him otherwise la3natullah 3alayk.
ReplyFatimaAsSideqah
03-28-2008, 12:36 AM
KAding
03-28-2008, 10:52 AM
"Propaganda movie" seems an excellent description!.
But in the end there is nothing new to see here. He just strings some old images together, and quotes some radical Muslims. He's completely generalizing. I don't think it's worth a demonstration/riot, but your mileage may vary!
ReplyBut in the end there is nothing new to see here. He just strings some old images together, and quotes some radical Muslims. He's completely generalizing. I don't think it's worth a demonstration/riot, but your mileage may vary!
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Malaikah
03-28-2008, 11:38 AM
"It is not up to me, but up to the Muslims themselves to tear the spiteful verses from the Koran."
So it's okay for him to create a totally spiteful video against Muslims but it's not okay for Muslims to have (so-called) spiteful verses in the Quran.
Double standards, anyone?
Fishman
03-28-2008, 11:43 AM
:sl:
Good riddance. Nobody would show that thing on TV and now it is stuffed in some rubbishy internet site where it belongs!
:w:
ReplyGood riddance. Nobody would show that thing on TV and now it is stuffed in some rubbishy internet site where it belongs!
:w:
aamirsaab
03-28-2008, 11:47 AM
:sl:
Lol I love it when these anti-islamic western folk say stop islamisation, etc.
Ignorant jackasses, the lot of them.
ReplyLol I love it when these anti-islamic western folk say stop islamisation, etc.
Ignorant jackasses, the lot of them.
Uthman
03-28-2008, 02:48 PM
Relief over Dutch MP's anti-Islam film
The initial reaction in the Netherlands following the long-awaited showing of right-wing politician Geert Wilders' anti-Islam film Fitna is one of relief.
Commentators are almost unanimous in their assessment that the internet video is much less inflammatory than expected.
Mr Wilders himself called the film "respectable" saying he wanted it to spark debate - others said it was "nothing new".
Public opinion has been restrained, with no demonstrations or riots.
Comments posted to popular websites like that of De Telegraaf - the Netherlands' best selling newspaper - are mixed.
"It seems to me that this will not lead to problems for Mr Wilders or the Netherlands, it was a mess, just separate fragments linked together. It was nothing more than what Wilders always says, in fact it was toned down," writes Simon from Amsterdam.
Support
Frank in Utrecht had this to say: "I'm no fan of Wilders but when you see things as laid out in this film you get a clear picture. It will make a lot of people think, and luckily thinking has never done anyone any harm."
Fouad Sidali
Co-operation of Moroccans in the Netherlands
There were also many messages of support for Mr Wilders with people saying they felt he was addressing issues other politicians are afraid to talk about - those being Islam and integration.
In their reactions, different Dutch Muslim organisations expressed a similar sense of relief.
"The worries that I and Dutch society had about riots and that sort of thing are now considerably reduced," said Brahim Bourzik from the National Moroccan Council.
However, there was criticism from Muslim groups, which say that Mr Wilders is painting an image of all Muslims as extremists.
"The film is not as shocking as we thought it was going to be. We haven't had phone calls from our community that people are offended by this. But having said that, we think the images are repulsive, totally terrible. They are images that have already gone down in history as the deeds of criminals - they are responsible for these acts, not Islam," said Fouad Sidali from the Co-operation of Moroccans in the Netherlands.
Graphic images
The film, whose title Fitna means 'Ordeal' or 'Strife' in Arabic, shows verses of the Koran alternating with graphic scenes of recent atrocities: the 9/11 attacks on the Twin Towers in New York, the charred bodies of train passengers bombed in Madrid and gruesome images from attacks in London and Somalia.
The 15-minute production quotes the Koran - Surah Four, verse 56 - as saying: "Those who have disbelieved our signs, we shall roast them in Hell."
Mr Wilders' message is clear: be warned because Islam's true purpose is to conquer the world and destroy our freedom and democratic systems.
PM Jan Peter Balkenende
Towards the end, a hand is shown grabbing a page of the Koran. The image is accompanied by the sound of tearing paper.
The screen then goes blank and subtitles explain that the sound was that of a page being torn from a telephone book.
Mr Wilders then declares that it is not up to him to tear malicious verses out of the Koran, but that Muslims themselves must do that.
In a press statement issued, unusually in English as well as Dutch, just a few hours after the film appeared on the internet, the Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende criticised the showing of the film.
"The film equates Islam with violence, we reject this interpretation. The vast majority of Muslims reject extremism and violence and in fact the victims are often also Muslims.
"We therefore regret that Mr Wilders has released this film, we believe it serves no other purpose than to cause offence."
Maurits Berger, an expert on Islam from Leiden University, shares the view that the film is milder than expected, but he says there could still be problems.
"I'm worried about what I call the Salman Rushdie effect - then, having not read the book was no bar to protest and that could be the case here," he said.
"It may be that people will protest against 'the anti-Muslim' film without ever having seen it - so there is still need for caution."
Most experts believe that the film will not get Mr Wilders into legal problems, saying it is not discriminatory in the legal sense.
But the government says it will look at this issue and a mistake in the film may well see the member of parliament in hot water.
A photograph of the rapper Salah Edin was mistakenly used as the photo of Mohammed Bouyeri, the murderer of Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh. The rapper is consulting his lawyers.
And the Danish cartoonist, Kurt Westergaard, is suing Mr Wilders through the Danish Union of Journalists, alleging he infringed copyright by using a cartoon of his without permission. The cartoon depicts the Prophet Muhammad with a bomb in his turban.
Despite the mild reactions to the film, the co-ordinator for terrorism prevention, Tjibbe Joustra, is keeping the level of terrorist threat at "substantial". This is the second-highest level in the Netherlands.
Source
ReplyThe initial reaction in the Netherlands following the long-awaited showing of right-wing politician Geert Wilders' anti-Islam film Fitna is one of relief.
Commentators are almost unanimous in their assessment that the internet video is much less inflammatory than expected.
Mr Wilders himself called the film "respectable" saying he wanted it to spark debate - others said it was "nothing new".
Public opinion has been restrained, with no demonstrations or riots.
Comments posted to popular websites like that of De Telegraaf - the Netherlands' best selling newspaper - are mixed.
"It seems to me that this will not lead to problems for Mr Wilders or the Netherlands, it was a mess, just separate fragments linked together. It was nothing more than what Wilders always says, in fact it was toned down," writes Simon from Amsterdam.
Support
Frank in Utrecht had this to say: "I'm no fan of Wilders but when you see things as laid out in this film you get a clear picture. It will make a lot of people think, and luckily thinking has never done anyone any harm."
Fouad Sidali
Co-operation of Moroccans in the Netherlands
There were also many messages of support for Mr Wilders with people saying they felt he was addressing issues other politicians are afraid to talk about - those being Islam and integration.
In their reactions, different Dutch Muslim organisations expressed a similar sense of relief.
"The worries that I and Dutch society had about riots and that sort of thing are now considerably reduced," said Brahim Bourzik from the National Moroccan Council.
However, there was criticism from Muslim groups, which say that Mr Wilders is painting an image of all Muslims as extremists.
"The film is not as shocking as we thought it was going to be. We haven't had phone calls from our community that people are offended by this. But having said that, we think the images are repulsive, totally terrible. They are images that have already gone down in history as the deeds of criminals - they are responsible for these acts, not Islam," said Fouad Sidali from the Co-operation of Moroccans in the Netherlands.
Graphic images
The film, whose title Fitna means 'Ordeal' or 'Strife' in Arabic, shows verses of the Koran alternating with graphic scenes of recent atrocities: the 9/11 attacks on the Twin Towers in New York, the charred bodies of train passengers bombed in Madrid and gruesome images from attacks in London and Somalia.
The 15-minute production quotes the Koran - Surah Four, verse 56 - as saying: "Those who have disbelieved our signs, we shall roast them in Hell."
Mr Wilders' message is clear: be warned because Islam's true purpose is to conquer the world and destroy our freedom and democratic systems.
PM Jan Peter Balkenende
Towards the end, a hand is shown grabbing a page of the Koran. The image is accompanied by the sound of tearing paper.
The screen then goes blank and subtitles explain that the sound was that of a page being torn from a telephone book.
Mr Wilders then declares that it is not up to him to tear malicious verses out of the Koran, but that Muslims themselves must do that.
In a press statement issued, unusually in English as well as Dutch, just a few hours after the film appeared on the internet, the Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende criticised the showing of the film.
"The film equates Islam with violence, we reject this interpretation. The vast majority of Muslims reject extremism and violence and in fact the victims are often also Muslims.
"We therefore regret that Mr Wilders has released this film, we believe it serves no other purpose than to cause offence."
Maurits Berger, an expert on Islam from Leiden University, shares the view that the film is milder than expected, but he says there could still be problems.
"I'm worried about what I call the Salman Rushdie effect - then, having not read the book was no bar to protest and that could be the case here," he said.
"It may be that people will protest against 'the anti-Muslim' film without ever having seen it - so there is still need for caution."
Most experts believe that the film will not get Mr Wilders into legal problems, saying it is not discriminatory in the legal sense.
But the government says it will look at this issue and a mistake in the film may well see the member of parliament in hot water.
A photograph of the rapper Salah Edin was mistakenly used as the photo of Mohammed Bouyeri, the murderer of Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh. The rapper is consulting his lawyers.
And the Danish cartoonist, Kurt Westergaard, is suing Mr Wilders through the Danish Union of Journalists, alleging he infringed copyright by using a cartoon of his without permission. The cartoon depicts the Prophet Muhammad with a bomb in his turban.
Despite the mild reactions to the film, the co-ordinator for terrorism prevention, Tjibbe Joustra, is keeping the level of terrorist threat at "substantial". This is the second-highest level in the Netherlands.
Source
------
03-28-2008, 02:55 PM
:salamext:
THE HEK MAN! U on something?!
Reply
A text that appears on the screen says: "The sound you heard was from a page (being torn from a) phone book.
"It is not up to me, but up to the Muslims themselves to tear the spiteful verses from the Koran."
"It is not up to me, but up to the Muslims themselves to tear the spiteful verses from the Koran."
united
03-28-2008, 03:14 PM
theres 1001 other similar videos on the web. the only difference is that theyre made my people who are not in places of authority. Quite frankly, id have thought Mr MP Sahib would have put a bit more effort into the video and made it a bit more original.
What a load of hype over nothing...
ReplyWhat a load of hype over nothing...
Amat Allah
03-28-2008, 03:45 PM
Asalamo Alikom
don`t worry , eventually the victory will be for Allah (SWT) ,his messengers and his Book Al_Qura`n....
we will never be affected by the raff`s saying or deed....
Islam is our deen (religion) whether they like it or not....
may Allah guide us all to the right path and overmaster his enemies the enemies of Islam and Muslims.....
Ameeeeeeen
Replydon`t worry , eventually the victory will be for Allah (SWT) ,his messengers and his Book Al_Qura`n....
we will never be affected by the raff`s saying or deed....
Islam is our deen (religion) whether they like it or not....
may Allah guide us all to the right path and overmaster his enemies the enemies of Islam and Muslims.....
Ameeeeeeen
aadil77
03-28-2008, 05:33 PM
has anyone seen this guys face (Geert Wilders)? everytime I see it - I just feel like knockin the **** out of him
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl...-8&sa=N&tab=wi
Replyhttp://images.google.co.uk/images?hl...-8&sa=N&tab=wi
FatimaAsSideqah
03-28-2008, 05:37 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
Yeah, I have seen his face on the bbc news website. His hair looks very weird and fake hair. :X
ReplyYeah, I have seen his face on the bbc news website. His hair looks very weird and fake hair. :X
aadil77
03-28-2008, 05:42 PM
The_Prince
03-28-2008, 07:58 PM
in the near future (1-2 years) i am going to be making my own documentary on the Bible, i will call it the Good News, make it 20 minutes long, that will be good, i will have sponsors and org backing by then and we will make it huge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ps: my 2 public debates in the USA went very good, won hands down on both debates, the christians were all complimentary to me, they want me on their side. as soon as theyre availible i will post them here!
Replyps: my 2 public debates in the USA went very good, won hands down on both debates, the christians were all complimentary to me, they want me on their side. as soon as theyre availible i will post them here!
KAding
03-28-2008, 08:07 PM
Doesn't that work both ways?
"So it's ok for Islam to have spiteful verses in the Qu'ran about non-Muslims but not okay for Wilders to create a spiteful video against Muslims. Double standards anyone?"
Reply"So it's ok for Islam to have spiteful verses in the Qu'ran about non-Muslims but not okay for Wilders to create a spiteful video against Muslims. Double standards anyone?"
KAding
03-28-2008, 08:12 PM
Why take out your anger on Christians? I don't think Wilders is a Christian?
ReplyThe_Prince
03-28-2008, 08:21 PM
many christians agree with this nonsense and propagate the same thing he does. and the Bible is getting a free ride these days, its time to EXPOSE the truth and teach what the Bible really says and teaches.
ReplyKeltoi
03-28-2008, 09:30 PM
Isn't that exactly what this "documentary" claims to do? Is the double standard so obvious you can't even see it?
Replysnakelegs
03-29-2008, 01:07 AM
i just heard that the free-speech champion cartoonist who drew the one with the bomb-in-turban is going to sue wilders for copyright infringement. ;D
ReplyMalaikah
03-29-2008, 02:21 AM
Nope. Depends on which verses he considers spiteful. Maybe he points some out in the documentary (I wouldn't know, I'm not about to waste 20 minutes of my life watching it) but it's than like just stuff taken out of context or exaggerated.
ReplyAbdul-Raouf
03-29-2008, 02:26 AM
Things which seems against islam may turn in favour...
when people try to find the complete truth about islam.
AvarAllahNoor
03-29-2008, 02:41 AM
Well, 15 minutes...:X
But like I said before, It's nothing new you can't already see on youtube. I lost interest after 7 minutes.
ReplyBut like I said before, It's nothing new you can't already see on youtube. I lost interest after 7 minutes.
Uthman
03-29-2008, 09:34 AM
My brother decided to watch it the other day (:rollseyes). I caught a glimpse and I saw verse 8:60 cited, followed by a clip of the 9/11 attacks.
ReplyEbtisweetsam
03-29-2008, 09:48 AM
Well thats good news snakelegs... lets hope its got a good source.
Im so sick of this crap coming out of dutch and holland... they are making the Muslim Ummah go insane!
ReplyIm so sick of this crap coming out of dutch and holland... they are making the Muslim Ummah go insane!
barney
03-29-2008, 09:59 AM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103
The vid has been removed and replaced with a statement.
The people at liveleak had received a response, prepare to die.
ReplyThe vid has been removed and replaced with a statement.
The people at liveleak had received a response, prepare to die.
Al-Zaara
03-29-2008, 11:06 AM
Uthman
03-29-2008, 12:21 PM
And what's more...I posted a thread about it!
Darn those thread approval problems!
ReplyDarn those thread approval problems!
AvarAllahNoor
03-29-2008, 12:43 PM
What did they expect, anomination for an Oscar?
Leave Religion alone. Debate yes, but not insult and hurt the sentiments of the followers of ANY Religion. That includes the beliefs of Agnostics, Athiests etc.
ReplyLeave Religion alone. Debate yes, but not insult and hurt the sentiments of the followers of ANY Religion. That includes the beliefs of Agnostics, Athiests etc.
Uthman
03-29-2008, 12:45 PM
UN chief condemns anti-Islam film
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has strongly condemned a controversial film on Islam made by a Dutch politician, calling it "offensively anti-Islamic".
Several Muslim countries have also condemned the film, a 15-minute polemic by the far-right MP Geert Wilder, which was posted online on Thursday.
Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran and Bangladesh were among those to protest.
The film sets verses from the Koran against a background of violent images from terror attacks.
"I condemn, in the strongest terms, the airing of Geert Wilders' offensively anti-Islamic film," Mr Ban said in a statement.
"The right of free expression is not at stake here," he added. "Freedom must always be accompanied by social responsibility."
The EU's Slovenian presidency said the film served no purpose other than "inflaming hatred".
'Defamatory'
In Pakistan there were small protests in several places on Friday against the film, while the government summoned the Dutch ambassador in Islamabad to lodge a protest.
Cartoonist to sue over film
Relief over Islam film
The country's foreign ministry said the film was defamatory and "deeply offended" Muslim sentiments. Pakistan said it told the Dutch ambassador that it was incumbent on the Netherlands to prosecute Mr Wilders for defamation and deliberately hurting Muslim sentiments, the official Associated Press of Pakistan news agency reported.
The world's most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia, also condemned the film, saying it was "misleading and full of racism".
The foreign ministry in Bangladesh issued a statement calling the film "unwarranted" and "mindless".
Iran said it was blasphemous, anti-Islamic and heinous - a sign it said of deep hatred felt by Westerners towards Muslims.
In the Netherlands, Mr Wilders has said he is happy with what he sees as the relatively positive domestic reaction to his film.
But the Dutch prime minister said the film wrongly equated Islam with violence.
"We reject this interpretation," Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said shortly before its publication.
"The vast majority of Muslims reject extremism and violence and in fact the victims are often also Muslims."
Source
ReplyUN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has strongly condemned a controversial film on Islam made by a Dutch politician, calling it "offensively anti-Islamic".
Several Muslim countries have also condemned the film, a 15-minute polemic by the far-right MP Geert Wilder, which was posted online on Thursday.
Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran and Bangladesh were among those to protest.
The film sets verses from the Koran against a background of violent images from terror attacks.
"I condemn, in the strongest terms, the airing of Geert Wilders' offensively anti-Islamic film," Mr Ban said in a statement.
"The right of free expression is not at stake here," he added. "Freedom must always be accompanied by social responsibility."
The EU's Slovenian presidency said the film served no purpose other than "inflaming hatred".
'Defamatory'
In Pakistan there were small protests in several places on Friday against the film, while the government summoned the Dutch ambassador in Islamabad to lodge a protest.
Cartoonist to sue over film
Relief over Islam film
The country's foreign ministry said the film was defamatory and "deeply offended" Muslim sentiments. Pakistan said it told the Dutch ambassador that it was incumbent on the Netherlands to prosecute Mr Wilders for defamation and deliberately hurting Muslim sentiments, the official Associated Press of Pakistan news agency reported.
The world's most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia, also condemned the film, saying it was "misleading and full of racism".
The foreign ministry in Bangladesh issued a statement calling the film "unwarranted" and "mindless".
Iran said it was blasphemous, anti-Islamic and heinous - a sign it said of deep hatred felt by Westerners towards Muslims.
In the Netherlands, Mr Wilders has said he is happy with what he sees as the relatively positive domestic reaction to his film.
But the Dutch prime minister said the film wrongly equated Islam with violence.
"We reject this interpretation," Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said shortly before its publication.
"The vast majority of Muslims reject extremism and violence and in fact the victims are often also Muslims."
Source
Amat Allah
03-29-2008, 02:17 PM
What did they expect, anomination for an Oscar?
Leave Religion alone. Debate yes, but not insult and hurt the sentiments of the followers of ANY Religion. That includes the beliefs of Agnostics, Athiests etc.
Leave Religion alone. Debate yes, but not insult and hurt the sentiments of the followers of ANY Religion. That includes the beliefs of Agnostics, Athiests etc.
and I don`t know what they want to get from all of this,they are dragging troubles for themselves...
how stupid they are...??
O Allah have mercy on us....
Uthman
03-29-2008, 02:21 PM
Amat Allah
03-29-2008, 02:48 PM
I am realy realy sorry my dear brother AvarAllahNoor :-[
Alhamdo lellah I did fix it .....
thank you my dear brother Osman :statisfie
I am so sorry again..
Jazakom Allah khaira..
Ameeeen
ReplyAlhamdo lellah I did fix it .....
thank you my dear brother Osman :statisfie
I am so sorry again..
Jazakom Allah khaira..
Ameeeen
Uthman
03-29-2008, 03:03 PM
Fishman
03-29-2008, 04:31 PM
KAding
03-29-2008, 04:32 PM
KAding
03-29-2008, 04:57 PM
You are quite right not to waste your time watching it, it's not very well done, neither artistically nor its contents.
But I think this is too easy. The Qu'ran often speaks with great disrespect of the 'unbelievers' and generalizes about them all the time. You might not notice because you were raised with the Qu'ran, but it was quite obvious to me while reading it. I mean, the whole fact that we are priori condemned to burn in hell for eternity is a fairly good indication we get no respect whatsoever. Imagine someone nowadays writing a book that claims all, say, Muslims deserve to have their skin burned over and over and are the "worst of men".
On the other hand, I understand we don't generally judge ancient text as we do more contemporary speech. I don't know why, but we don't ;).
ReplyBut I think this is too easy. The Qu'ran often speaks with great disrespect of the 'unbelievers' and generalizes about them all the time. You might not notice because you were raised with the Qu'ran, but it was quite obvious to me while reading it. I mean, the whole fact that we are priori condemned to burn in hell for eternity is a fairly good indication we get no respect whatsoever. Imagine someone nowadays writing a book that claims all, say, Muslims deserve to have their skin burned over and over and are the "worst of men".
On the other hand, I understand we don't generally judge ancient text as we do more contemporary speech. I don't know why, but we don't ;).
AvarAllahNoor
03-29-2008, 04:59 PM
barney
03-29-2008, 06:43 PM
Oh no doubt they expected it. The past history of islams reaction to any mockery or accusation give them a pretty solid chance of receiving a death threat. They knew what they were doing.
I really feel sorry for the quiet majority of muslims who, whilst naturally hating such films, are desperatly hoping that a film showing Islam as a "religion of aggression and murder" isnt going to be responded to with death threats.
Just how stupid are these people? "How dare they say we are Violent! DIE for your impudence, untill you agree we are peaceful!" :?
AvarAllahNoor
03-29-2008, 10:38 PM
It's the way it is I'm afraid. Peaceful reactions are best, but then If one goes out of his way to offend, then expect a negative respons! :)
Replyaadil77
03-29-2008, 11:19 PM
No, there hasn't been any reaction to it in holland and muslims have been advised not to react to it, but yes anyone can expect a death threat if they deserve it, remaining quiet and tolerent to **** like this will make us look weak and we don't want anyone taking advantage of that do we?
ReplyFatimaAsSideqah
03-29-2008, 11:25 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
Dutch Businesses to Sue Wilders
THE HAGUE — Fearing a Muslim boycott, major Dutch businesses are threatening to sue far-right lawmaker Geert Wilders over his documentary portraying the Noble Qur'an as inciting violence.
"If they (Muslims) decide to boycott Dutch businesses, it will harm Dutch exports," Bernard Wientjes, the chairman of the Dutch employers' organization VNO-NCW, told the newspaper Het Financieel Dagblad, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP).
"Companies like Shell, Philips and Unilever are easily recognizable as Dutch companies."
Wilders, the leader of the far-right Freedom Party, released his anti-Qur'an film on a video-sharing website on Thursday, March 27.
The film intersperses images of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States and the Madrid train bombings in 2004 with verses from the Qur'an.
The documentary also featured a Danish cartoon of a man said to be Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) with a bomb protruding from his turban.
"I don't know if Wilders is rich, or well-insured, but in the case of a boycott, we would look to see if we could make him bear responsibility," said Wientjes.
Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard has already threatened legal action against the far-right politician for using the cartoon in his film without permission.
Dutch-Moroccan rapper Salah Edin has also vowed to sue Wilders for using his picture to portray the killer of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh over his anti-Islam film "Submission".
Effective
The anti-Qur'an film has already sparked mounting calls in the Muslim world for boycotting Dutch products.
"If Muslims unite, it will be easy to take action," said former Malaysian prime minister Mahathir Mohamad.
"If we boycott Dutch products, they will have to close down their businesses.
"If the world's 1.3 billion Muslims unite and say they won't buy, then it (the boycott) will be effective," he said.
Nearly 30 Jordanian newspapers, radio stations and websites have launched a bid for boycotting Dutch businesses.
Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende has warned it could be "months" before the consequences of the film were known.
Muslims worldwide boycotted Danish products during the 2005 Prophet cartoon crisis, causing Danish companies nearly $1.5 million a day in losses.
Denmark's leading dairy company Arla Foods, one of the hardest hit, issued at the time a strong condemnation of the cartoon and appealed to Arabs and Muslims to end their boycott of its products.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout
ReplyDutch Businesses to Sue Wilders
THE HAGUE — Fearing a Muslim boycott, major Dutch businesses are threatening to sue far-right lawmaker Geert Wilders over his documentary portraying the Noble Qur'an as inciting violence.
"If they (Muslims) decide to boycott Dutch businesses, it will harm Dutch exports," Bernard Wientjes, the chairman of the Dutch employers' organization VNO-NCW, told the newspaper Het Financieel Dagblad, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP).
"Companies like Shell, Philips and Unilever are easily recognizable as Dutch companies."
Wilders, the leader of the far-right Freedom Party, released his anti-Qur'an film on a video-sharing website on Thursday, March 27.
The film intersperses images of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States and the Madrid train bombings in 2004 with verses from the Qur'an.
The documentary also featured a Danish cartoon of a man said to be Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) with a bomb protruding from his turban.
"I don't know if Wilders is rich, or well-insured, but in the case of a boycott, we would look to see if we could make him bear responsibility," said Wientjes.
Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard has already threatened legal action against the far-right politician for using the cartoon in his film without permission.
Dutch-Moroccan rapper Salah Edin has also vowed to sue Wilders for using his picture to portray the killer of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh over his anti-Islam film "Submission".
Effective
The anti-Qur'an film has already sparked mounting calls in the Muslim world for boycotting Dutch products.
"If Muslims unite, it will be easy to take action," said former Malaysian prime minister Mahathir Mohamad.
"If we boycott Dutch products, they will have to close down their businesses.
"If the world's 1.3 billion Muslims unite and say they won't buy, then it (the boycott) will be effective," he said.
Nearly 30 Jordanian newspapers, radio stations and websites have launched a bid for boycotting Dutch businesses.
Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende has warned it could be "months" before the consequences of the film were known.
Muslims worldwide boycotted Danish products during the 2005 Prophet cartoon crisis, causing Danish companies nearly $1.5 million a day in losses.
Denmark's leading dairy company Arla Foods, one of the hardest hit, issued at the time a strong condemnation of the cartoon and appealed to Arabs and Muslims to end their boycott of its products.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout
aadil77
03-29-2008, 11:30 PM
^ thats one way to react, slow but effective - only works if we can be bothered:D
ReplyFishman
03-29-2008, 11:31 PM
:sl:
Muslims should find all the false quotes he's put into it (there was one that somebody mentioned about slitting people's throats) and sue him for libel.
:w:
ReplyMuslims should find all the false quotes he's put into it (there was one that somebody mentioned about slitting people's throats) and sue him for libel.
:w:
Sanctus Paganis
03-30-2008, 06:14 AM
Hello, I'm new here.
Yes this movie shows nothing new.
But in other side it shows problems which has Muslim society. And big problems. How the religion can be a toy in political game and then even kids are involved in this.
ReplyYes this movie shows nothing new.
But in other side it shows problems which has Muslim society. And big problems. How the religion can be a toy in political game and then even kids are involved in this.
Amat Allah
03-30-2008, 02:37 PM
Asalamo Alikom
people who insult Islam and muslims are trying to spread Al fitnah(tumult) between Muslims and Non_Muslims ,they are trying to inflame a war among them and many reckless muslimes are blind to see and to understand their dirty games(those who insult Islam)...alas !
I am not saying we have to stop defending on our religion nooooo...it is our duty to defend on it but in a peaceful ways with wisdom and the Islamic moralism....
may Allah (SWT) forgive us and guide us all to the right path
Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeen
Replypeople who insult Islam and muslims are trying to spread Al fitnah(tumult) between Muslims and Non_Muslims ,they are trying to inflame a war among them and many reckless muslimes are blind to see and to understand their dirty games(those who insult Islam)...alas !
I am not saying we have to stop defending on our religion nooooo...it is our duty to defend on it but in a peaceful ways with wisdom and the Islamic moralism....
may Allah (SWT) forgive us and guide us all to the right path
Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeen
Pygoscelis
03-31-2008, 06:30 AM
Barney, thats even sicker than the "movie" itself.
But what could be even sicker still is if they received no such threats and just posted that to try to make muslims look even worse. I mean I wouldn't put death threats past radical muslims but I wouldn't put faking it past this guy either.
ReplyBut what could be even sicker still is if they received no such threats and just posted that to try to make muslims look even worse. I mean I wouldn't put death threats past radical muslims but I wouldn't put faking it past this guy either.
snakelegs
03-31-2008, 06:42 AM
how would it be if muslims held a huge prayer gathering and prayed for guidance for wilders and the other people that insult islam?
it would be dignified, but still taking action.
Replyit would be dignified, but still taking action.
Ebtisweetsam
03-31-2008, 11:26 AM
Uthman
03-31-2008, 11:38 AM
Dutch MP's film angers Indonesia
Indonesian Muslims voiced anger at the former colonial power
Dozens of Indonesians have demonstrated outside the Dutch embassy in Jakarta over a Dutch MP's film that has outraged many Muslims.
Some protesters hurled eggs and plastic water bottles at the embassy as riot police formed a wall to keep them away.
Geert Wilders, leader of the right-wing Freedom Party (VVP) in the Netherlands, released the 17-minute film Fitna ("Strife") on the internet last week.
Showing scenes of terrorist attacks, it claims the Koran inspires violence.
Hundreds of Indonesian school students also demonstrated against the film in central Java on Sunday.
Demonstrators in Jakarta on Monday - from the Muslim group Islamic Defenders Front - held placards saying "Geert Wilders is a Christian terrorist", "Kill Geert Wilders" and "Holland go to hell!"
Police prevented protesters getting to the embassy gates
Iran protested to the Dutch ambassador in Tehran on Sunday. Iran's foreign ministry called the film "insulting and anti-Islamic". The film shows graphic images of terrorist attacks, including the destruction of the World Trade Center on 11 September 2001 and the London and Madrid train bombings, interspersed with verses from the Koran.
The film ends with someone turning pages of a Koran, followed by a tearing sound. It concludes: "Stop Islamisation. Defend our freedom."
Fitna has been condemned by the Dutch government and Dutch broadcasters have avoided showing it. UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has called it "offensively anti-Islamic".
Mr Wilders has received death threats and is under constant police protection.
Source
ReplyIndonesian Muslims voiced anger at the former colonial power
Dozens of Indonesians have demonstrated outside the Dutch embassy in Jakarta over a Dutch MP's film that has outraged many Muslims.
Some protesters hurled eggs and plastic water bottles at the embassy as riot police formed a wall to keep them away.
Geert Wilders, leader of the right-wing Freedom Party (VVP) in the Netherlands, released the 17-minute film Fitna ("Strife") on the internet last week.
Showing scenes of terrorist attacks, it claims the Koran inspires violence.
Hundreds of Indonesian school students also demonstrated against the film in central Java on Sunday.
Demonstrators in Jakarta on Monday - from the Muslim group Islamic Defenders Front - held placards saying "Geert Wilders is a Christian terrorist", "Kill Geert Wilders" and "Holland go to hell!"
Police prevented protesters getting to the embassy gates
Iran protested to the Dutch ambassador in Tehran on Sunday. Iran's foreign ministry called the film "insulting and anti-Islamic". The film shows graphic images of terrorist attacks, including the destruction of the World Trade Center on 11 September 2001 and the London and Madrid train bombings, interspersed with verses from the Koran.
The film ends with someone turning pages of a Koran, followed by a tearing sound. It concludes: "Stop Islamisation. Defend our freedom."
Fitna has been condemned by the Dutch government and Dutch broadcasters have avoided showing it. UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has called it "offensively anti-Islamic".
Mr Wilders has received death threats and is under constant police protection.
Source
Uthman
03-31-2008, 11:39 AM
I guess the reaction isn't as peaceful as we had hoped. If you click on the source link, you will see some of the placards being held up.
How can we blame some of the Non-Muslims for assuming that Islam is a violent religion? Hurling eggs and plastic water bottles? It's ironic that they are defending such a peaceful religion like this. :( May Allah give us all patience.
What can we do to make the situation better?
ReplyHow can we blame some of the Non-Muslims for assuming that Islam is a violent religion? Hurling eggs and plastic water bottles? It's ironic that they are defending such a peaceful religion like this. :( May Allah give us all patience.
What can we do to make the situation better?
Uthman
03-31-2008, 12:05 PM
EU foreign ministers condemn Dutch film on Islam
Dutch minister seeks to calm Muslim anger at film
I also read an interview with Mr Wilders about the film. He says 'Moderate Islam is a contradiction'. I don't know whether I am allowed to post it, because it could be interpreted as anti-Islamic.
At the end of the day, no-one would benefit from reading it anyway.
ReplyDutch minister seeks to calm Muslim anger at film
I also read an interview with Mr Wilders about the film. He says 'Moderate Islam is a contradiction'. I don't know whether I am allowed to post it, because it could be interpreted as anti-Islamic.
At the end of the day, no-one would benefit from reading it anyway.
Keltoi
03-31-2008, 12:27 PM
Demonstrations like that are exactly what people like Wilders expect to see, and it only reinforces their world view. I'm sure its sort of like my reaction to fellow Christians I see demonstrating against abortion or some other social ill with spiteful and hateful signs that only stereotype all of us. I wish people of faith would embrace the humbleness that should come with knowledge of God. God doesn't need us to defend Him, only to worship and acknowledge Him.
Violence in the name of God is a contradiction.
ReplyViolence in the name of God is a contradiction.
adeeb
03-31-2008, 12:59 PM
wilders is idiot, coz he wants to tell people about quran that he deosnt know himself...
sick man! :? :phew:raging:
Replysick man! :? :phew:raging:
Amat Allah
03-31-2008, 01:54 PM
how would it be if muslims held a huge prayer gathering and prayed for guidance for wilders and the other people that insult islam?
we don`t have to burn flags and to destroy everything around us to demonstrate to them how wrong they are...
all we have to do is to talk with them with wiseness and if they didn`t listen to us ...we will do our best to explain to the others those who do not know Islam very well to correct the wrong conceptes they have got from those who blemish the image of Islam.
I wish people of faith would embrace the humbleness that should come with knowledge of God. God doesn't need us to defend Him, only to worship and acknowledge Him.
my dear brother aren`t you going to defend on someone you love ?
I love my Lord so,I can`t stand aside while sick people insulting him,his messengers,his books and his religion.
I will do my best to defend on him with the way he had taught us to deal by with the others whether they were Muslims or Non_Muslims..
and I`ve said it befor many Muslims has forgot how to be Muslims ...alas!
but there is so many real Muslims in this world inshaa Allah...
peace
Keltoi
03-31-2008, 03:37 PM
Defending God against lies and blasphemy is fine, as long as that defense is non-violent. God does not need human beings to threaten or kill other human beings for rejecting Him or insulting Him...although I would suggest this was more about insulting a prophet and not God Himself...but that is a different issue. If one is solid in their faith, the insults of others are meaningless. It is a contradiction of the highest degree to defend accusations of violence by behaving violently.
Replyal Amaanah
03-31-2008, 07:02 PM
theyve insulted Allah by associating a son with Him, so why wouldnt they insult the Prophet salla Allahu alayhi wassalam? Allah yahdihom aw la3anahomollah fi dunya wal aakhirah.
ReplyUthman
03-31-2008, 07:04 PM
Izyan
03-31-2008, 07:22 PM
Maybe you insult Allah by denying Isa as his son. I'm just saying think before you post brother.
Replysnakelegs
03-31-2008, 08:23 PM
what you wrote above makes sense BUT these people are not interested in sense and they are not interested in islam either. their only goal is to provoke muslims in to doing something stupid. they are fear mongerers and want to rally europeans behind the right wing xenophobic parties.
frankly, i think if muslims want to respond, a big prayer gathering would be very dignified, in which you pray that wilders will be guided to islam.
anyway, i like the idea.
Replyfrankly, i think if muslims want to respond, a big prayer gathering would be very dignified, in which you pray that wilders will be guided to islam.
anyway, i like the idea.
snakelegs
03-31-2008, 08:24 PM
sadly, it only takes a few and the media will be there. see my suggestion above.
Replybarney
03-31-2008, 10:38 PM
Izyan. A core islamic beleif is that Jesus is a exalted prophet & that Allah has no son or indeed daughters. Theres over 20 references to this in the Koran
FatimaAsSideqah
03-31-2008, 10:47 PM
Prophet Isa (PBUH) saw himself purely as a man just as did the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) In Islam the Quran has stated frequently that Prophet Isa (PBUH) was just a Prophet of Allah :
"Say ye, "We believe in Allah and the Revelation given to us, and to Ibrahim, Ismail, I`saac, Yakub and the Tribes and that given to Musa and I`sa (Jesus) and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord. We make no difference between one and another of them and we submit to Allah." (2:136)
"And Zakariya and Yahya and I`sa (Jesus) and Ilyas : All in the ranks of the Righteous." (6:85)
1. Divinity: Only God is divine in Islam. No one else is divine, including prophets, such as Isa and Muhammad.
2. Trinity: Muslims believe that trinity is NOT compatible with the oneness of God. The idea of three-in-one is not convincing to Muslims.
Reply"Say ye, "We believe in Allah and the Revelation given to us, and to Ibrahim, Ismail, I`saac, Yakub and the Tribes and that given to Musa and I`sa (Jesus) and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord. We make no difference between one and another of them and we submit to Allah." (2:136)
"And Zakariya and Yahya and I`sa (Jesus) and Ilyas : All in the ranks of the Righteous." (6:85)
1. Divinity: Only God is divine in Islam. No one else is divine, including prophets, such as Isa and Muhammad.
2. Trinity: Muslims believe that trinity is NOT compatible with the oneness of God. The idea of three-in-one is not convincing to Muslims.
FatimaAsSideqah
03-31-2008, 10:55 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
THE HAGUE — With the threat of lawsuits hanging over his head, far-right lawmaker has decided to edit his controversial anti-Qur'an documentary, while the government continues efforts to contain the fallout of the crisis.
Wilders told the Dutch ANP news agency he will remove a Danish cartoon showing a man said to be Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) with a bomb in his turban.
He plans to substitute the controversial drawing with another caricature of the prophet.
Wilders is not changing the drawing because of its offensive nature but simply because Dutch cartoonist Kurt Westergaard has accused him of using the image without his permission.
"I won't accept my cartoon being taken out of its original context and used in a completely different one," he said last week.
MP Wilder will also remove a photo of a Dutch-Moroccan rapper who was wrongly identified as the killer of Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh in 2004.
He will give credit to a Dutch journalist for the use of sound bites from an interview he had with Van Gogh shortly before his murder.
The 15-minute documentary, posted on a video-sharing website on Thursday, March 27, intersperses images of terror attacks with verses from the Qur'an.
Dutch Muslim leader Mohamed Rabbae is also planning to sue Wilders over inciting hatred against Muslims in the Netherlands, estimated at one million of the 16-million population.
Dutch laws forbid incitement to hatred on the basis of race, religion or ideology, gender and sexual preference.
The maximum sentence for such crimes is two years in prison and a fine.
Scrambled
With condemnation of the documentary pouring in from across the world, the Dutch government pursued painstaking efforts to contain Muslim anger.
"We are aware of the concerns and feelings in the international Muslim community about this film," Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen told the ambassadors of 27 Muslim countries on Monday.
"But injured feelings should never be an excuse for aggression and threats," he stressed, adding that the film does not reflect his government's views on Islam.
"Let us keep a cool head and warm relations."
The government has reportedly distanced itself from Wilders and tried unsuccessfully to convince him not to broadcast the film, fearing it would trigger protests in Netherlands and overseas and strain ties with Muslim countries.
Dozens of Indonesians protested outside the Dutch embassy on Monday, hurling eggs and plastic water bottles into the compound.
Malaysia's Islamic PAS party on Monday urged Muslims worldwide to boycott Dutch products in protest.
Former prime minister Mahathir Mohamad said Saturday that if the world's 1.3 billion Muslims boycotted Dutch products, the country's industries would be forced to shut down.
Dutch businesses have already threatened to sue Wilders if his film led to an economic boycott of their products.
Wrapping up their annual summit Sunday, Arab leaders expressed concern at rising Islamophobia around the world.
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon dismissed it as "offensively anti-Islamic" while the European Union rejected its equation between Islam and violence.
This comes as a Dutch politician is planning to broadcast a more provocative cartoon movie about the Prophet.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout
ReplyTHE HAGUE — With the threat of lawsuits hanging over his head, far-right lawmaker has decided to edit his controversial anti-Qur'an documentary, while the government continues efforts to contain the fallout of the crisis.
Wilders told the Dutch ANP news agency he will remove a Danish cartoon showing a man said to be Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) with a bomb in his turban.
He plans to substitute the controversial drawing with another caricature of the prophet.
Wilders is not changing the drawing because of its offensive nature but simply because Dutch cartoonist Kurt Westergaard has accused him of using the image without his permission.
"I won't accept my cartoon being taken out of its original context and used in a completely different one," he said last week.
MP Wilder will also remove a photo of a Dutch-Moroccan rapper who was wrongly identified as the killer of Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh in 2004.
He will give credit to a Dutch journalist for the use of sound bites from an interview he had with Van Gogh shortly before his murder.
The 15-minute documentary, posted on a video-sharing website on Thursday, March 27, intersperses images of terror attacks with verses from the Qur'an.
Dutch Muslim leader Mohamed Rabbae is also planning to sue Wilders over inciting hatred against Muslims in the Netherlands, estimated at one million of the 16-million population.
Dutch laws forbid incitement to hatred on the basis of race, religion or ideology, gender and sexual preference.
The maximum sentence for such crimes is two years in prison and a fine.
Scrambled
With condemnation of the documentary pouring in from across the world, the Dutch government pursued painstaking efforts to contain Muslim anger.
"We are aware of the concerns and feelings in the international Muslim community about this film," Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen told the ambassadors of 27 Muslim countries on Monday.
"But injured feelings should never be an excuse for aggression and threats," he stressed, adding that the film does not reflect his government's views on Islam.
"Let us keep a cool head and warm relations."
The government has reportedly distanced itself from Wilders and tried unsuccessfully to convince him not to broadcast the film, fearing it would trigger protests in Netherlands and overseas and strain ties with Muslim countries.
Dozens of Indonesians protested outside the Dutch embassy on Monday, hurling eggs and plastic water bottles into the compound.
Malaysia's Islamic PAS party on Monday urged Muslims worldwide to boycott Dutch products in protest.
Former prime minister Mahathir Mohamad said Saturday that if the world's 1.3 billion Muslims boycotted Dutch products, the country's industries would be forced to shut down.
Dutch businesses have already threatened to sue Wilders if his film led to an economic boycott of their products.
Wrapping up their annual summit Sunday, Arab leaders expressed concern at rising Islamophobia around the world.
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon dismissed it as "offensively anti-Islamic" while the European Union rejected its equation between Islam and violence.
This comes as a Dutch politician is planning to broadcast a more provocative cartoon movie about the Prophet.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout
Amat Allah
04-01-2008, 05:31 AM
Defending God against lies and blasphemy is fine, as long as that defense is non-violent. God does not need human beings to threaten or kill other human beings for rejecting Him or insulting Him...although I would suggest this was more about insulting a prophet and not God Himself...but that is a different issue. If one is solid in their faith, the insults of others are meaningless. It is a contradiction of the highest degree to defend accusations of violence by behaving violently.
I said we don`t have to burn flags and to destroy everything around us to demonstrate to them how wrong they are...
all we have to do is to talk with them with WISENESS .....didn`t I ??
I am not with violence and I will never be ,and people who is insulting prophets they are insulting the one who ordered us to believe in them and to follow them so ,it is the same my brother...
from the begining I was talking about dealing with the others by a peaceful ways and I did not say we must threaten or kill other human beings for rejecting Allah or insulting Him....I`ve never said that befor and I will never ever......
people who did and deal with this situation by behaving violently are stupid and reckless..
and stupid reckless people will not talk to the others with carefulness they will run after their stupid rage blindfold...alas!
anyway the insults of others are meaningless because they are not true and I will say to each one {they are not true }and this my way of defending on my Lord Allah and his prophets (peace and blessing of Allah be upon them all)..
violence is not licit in our religion but many Muslims had forgot the Islamic moralism and the rules of Islam and blemished the religion of Allah by their hands ....alas!
peace
Amat Allah
04-01-2008, 05:42 AM
what you wrote above makes sense BUT these people are not interested in sense and they are not interested in islam either. their only goal is to provoke muslims in to doing something stupid. they are fear mongerers and want to rally europeans behind the right wing xenophobic parties.
frankly, i think if muslims want to respond, a big prayer gathering would be very dignified, in which you pray that wilders will be guided to islam.
anyway, i like the idea.
frankly, i think if muslims want to respond, a big prayer gathering would be very dignified, in which you pray that wilders will be guided to islam.
anyway, i like the idea.
may Allah guide us all to the right path..
Amen
peace
Uthman
04-01-2008, 09:37 AM
Malaysian supermarket chain marks Dutch products red to protest anti-Islam film
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia: A supermarket chain in mainly Muslim Malaysia has marked Dutch products with red labels, giving customers the option of boycotting them to protest an anti-Islam movie by a Dutch lawmaker.
"I think as a Muslim, we have to take a stand," Ameer Ali Mydin, managing director of Mydin Mohamed Holdings Bhd., told The Associated Press on Tuesday, adding that 40 of his stores would take part in the nationwide campaign.
Supermarkets would put up notices and posters to explain the protest and allow customers to choose whether to buy Dutch products, Ameer said. Mydin buys 60 million ringgit (US$18.8 million; €11.9 million) worth of Dutch goods a year, from dairy and cosmetics to electronics.
Several other Malaysian groups have also called on Muslims to boycott Dutch goods, saying the 15-minute movie by lawmaker Geert Wilders creates unnecessary tensions and misleads viewers to link Islam and violence.
About 20 people protested outside the Dutch ambassador's residence Tuesday, carrying banners that read "Islam is peace" and shouting "Allah is great."
"We want to tell the world, 'Don't simply criticize Islam.' They should respect Muslim people," said Marzuki Yahya, an official from the ruling United Malay National Organization, which organized the rally.
"The government of Holland should apologize and take full responsibility," he said.
An official of the Dutch Embassy declined to comment, saying the ambassador would speak about the issue later. The official refused to be identified because she was not authorized to speak to the media.
Malaysia's Foreign Ministry has also strongly condemned the film as disrespectful and insensitive. Some 60 percent of the country's 27 million people are Muslims.
The film, titled "Fitna," or "ordeal" in Arabic, was posted online Thursday. Though it was removed from the site, LiveLeak.com, on Friday, it has since been available on other file-sharing sites.
Meanwhile, Malaysia's religious council ruled late Monday that the movie was an insult to Islam, and urged Muslims to protest by boycotting Dutch products.
Source
ReplyKUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia: A supermarket chain in mainly Muslim Malaysia has marked Dutch products with red labels, giving customers the option of boycotting them to protest an anti-Islam movie by a Dutch lawmaker.
"I think as a Muslim, we have to take a stand," Ameer Ali Mydin, managing director of Mydin Mohamed Holdings Bhd., told The Associated Press on Tuesday, adding that 40 of his stores would take part in the nationwide campaign.
Supermarkets would put up notices and posters to explain the protest and allow customers to choose whether to buy Dutch products, Ameer said. Mydin buys 60 million ringgit (US$18.8 million; €11.9 million) worth of Dutch goods a year, from dairy and cosmetics to electronics.
Several other Malaysian groups have also called on Muslims to boycott Dutch goods, saying the 15-minute movie by lawmaker Geert Wilders creates unnecessary tensions and misleads viewers to link Islam and violence.
About 20 people protested outside the Dutch ambassador's residence Tuesday, carrying banners that read "Islam is peace" and shouting "Allah is great."
"We want to tell the world, 'Don't simply criticize Islam.' They should respect Muslim people," said Marzuki Yahya, an official from the ruling United Malay National Organization, which organized the rally.
"The government of Holland should apologize and take full responsibility," he said.
An official of the Dutch Embassy declined to comment, saying the ambassador would speak about the issue later. The official refused to be identified because she was not authorized to speak to the media.
Malaysia's Foreign Ministry has also strongly condemned the film as disrespectful and insensitive. Some 60 percent of the country's 27 million people are Muslims.
The film, titled "Fitna," or "ordeal" in Arabic, was posted online Thursday. Though it was removed from the site, LiveLeak.com, on Friday, it has since been available on other file-sharing sites.
Meanwhile, Malaysia's religious council ruled late Monday that the movie was an insult to Islam, and urged Muslims to protest by boycotting Dutch products.
Source
guyabano
04-01-2008, 10:16 AM
Rep for this comment. I wish, this comment would reach everybody
Peace
[edit]oooupps, cannot rep yet, I must spread first[/edit]
ReplyPeace
[edit]oooupps, cannot rep yet, I must spread first[/edit]
Nerd
04-01-2008, 11:40 AM
The film, if you can hardly call it one, was merely a montage of low-grade internet videos of Islamic extremists preaching death and destruction upon the Western world (and especially Jews), stitched together with inserts of Koranic verses which seemed to (primarily) advocate violence against non-believers.
What conspired here probably relates to the nature of the Koranic text itself, which even without translation, is open to a staggering amount of self-interpretation. After watching it a few times, my conclusion is that this film is nothing more than a few minutes of nonsensical hate propaganda and should have never been made. Anybody with half a brain knows mainstream Islam does neither advocate nor permit the travesties implored within the film’s duration.
Sadly, this is not the first time the vagueness (or ambiguity) of both the original text and its dependent translations has been misused in this manner. Islamic fundamentalists do this all the time to inflict their own ideologies with regard to Islam.
ReplyWhat conspired here probably relates to the nature of the Koranic text itself, which even without translation, is open to a staggering amount of self-interpretation. After watching it a few times, my conclusion is that this film is nothing more than a few minutes of nonsensical hate propaganda and should have never been made. Anybody with half a brain knows mainstream Islam does neither advocate nor permit the travesties implored within the film’s duration.
Sadly, this is not the first time the vagueness (or ambiguity) of both the original text and its dependent translations has been misused in this manner. Islamic fundamentalists do this all the time to inflict their own ideologies with regard to Islam.
Uthman
04-01-2008, 11:51 AM
Greetings,
For the most part, I agree with the post above.
However, I would say that the verses of the Qur'an in themselves are neither vague nor ambiguous. To capture their true meaning, all that is required is an examination of their correct context, be that historical, linguistic or otherwise.
Sometimes, all you need to do is read the preceding and succeeding verse to place it in context. It really isn't that difficult, after all. :)
ReplyFor the most part, I agree with the post above.
However, I would say that the verses of the Qur'an in themselves are neither vague nor ambiguous. To capture their true meaning, all that is required is an examination of their correct context, be that historical, linguistic or otherwise.
Sometimes, all you need to do is read the preceding and succeeding verse to place it in context. It really isn't that difficult, after all. :)
Izyan
04-01-2008, 12:55 PM
Obviously I know this since I would be considered an Apostate because I am now a christian. Allah and Jehovah are one in the same. I just used Allah because the brother can relate to this on a more personal level.
Replyal Amaanah
04-01-2008, 08:01 PM
first im not ur brother. second, go catch up on what we believe who 'Isa alayhi salaam is. and dont give me think before u post, i thought and i posted.
ReplyIzyan
04-01-2008, 08:11 PM
I'm sorry sister and I know exactly who you think Isa alayhi salaam is. Musa is the beginning, Isa is the continuaton, and Muhammed is the completion of God's instruction. The purpose of your post was to offend christians. Do you think Allah would be pleased?
Replyal Amaanah
04-01-2008, 08:16 PM
who I think 'Isa is? what Islam says, and whats haqq. i dont believe in what u believe, "lakom deenakom waliya deen". so please, dont give me 'do u think Allah would be pleased' I DONT BELIEVE IN WHAT U BELIEVE. and actually i first made a supplictation for u to be guided if not may Allah curse upon those who insult the Prophet salla Allahu 'alayhi wassalam. and this was my last post here, goodbye Izyan.
ReplyIzyan
04-01-2008, 08:24 PM
Why the anger sister? Did I insult Muhammed (PBUH)? If I did it was unintentional. You do realize I am one of the people of the book don't you? You do realize that we DO believe the same things to a large extent don't you? It's just where we reach Isa is where our belief fork. Since this is not a theology discussion I will drop it. Peace be upon you sister.
ReplyMalaikah
04-02-2008, 03:39 AM
Roasted Cashew
04-02-2008, 08:30 AM
It ain't a movie. That guy just compiled all the available videos of radical extremists giving speeches and 9/11 footage which were already available online and which I had seen before. ONLY this time he tried to link all those stuff to Qur'anic text implying that Qur'an promotes terrorism and extremism. He took the verses out of context and that's pretty much all in it.
I ain't angry or pissed. It's very easy to refute his bull crap.
#Muslims have set up websites explaining the proper context and full explanation of the so-called "Violent Verses" which many tend to relate to terrorism:
http://www.islamic-shield.com/2008/0...nt-verses.html
As we all know it's easy to misquote any verse from any scripture and then make it look violent and evil. I am sure Christians would tend to agree with me because if we do what the bigots and Islam haters do to the Qur'an to the Bible; this is what we get:
Numbers 31:17-18 "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
Luke 19:27 Jesus said, "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
.....and so on. I had to bring them out of context to get my point across.
#Yeah and later add some images of Crusades and Inquisitions to the background of this 'verses' and you get "Fitna"
#I was expecting more than that amature attempt. There was another film released earlier about Radical Islam; that was better than this piece of s h i t. This is a waste of time.
ReplyI ain't angry or pissed. It's very easy to refute his bull crap.
#Muslims have set up websites explaining the proper context and full explanation of the so-called "Violent Verses" which many tend to relate to terrorism:
http://www.islamic-shield.com/2008/0...nt-verses.html
As we all know it's easy to misquote any verse from any scripture and then make it look violent and evil. I am sure Christians would tend to agree with me because if we do what the bigots and Islam haters do to the Qur'an to the Bible; this is what we get:
Numbers 31:17-18 "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
Luke 19:27 Jesus said, "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
.....and so on. I had to bring them out of context to get my point across.
#Yeah and later add some images of Crusades and Inquisitions to the background of this 'verses' and you get "Fitna"
#I was expecting more than that amature attempt. There was another film released earlier about Radical Islam; that was better than this piece of s h i t. This is a waste of time.
Muezzin
04-02-2008, 08:53 AM
An anti-Islamic film? Please. If one really wants to be controversial, one needs to make a videogame called Manhunt 2.
ReplyEbtisweetsam
04-02-2008, 09:15 AM
hehe, ur always so serious with ur anwers muezzin, lighten up ur comments abit :D :thumbs_up
Replyglo
04-03-2008, 11:42 PM
After much consideration and with some reluctance I have finally watched the film in question. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to comment on it here.
With Geert Wilders being a right-wing politician, it is not difficult to guess what his motivations for this movie are ...
Clearly he is not trying to give a balanced presentation of Islam ...
His film is not showing the views/attitudes an lifestyles of the majority of Muslims who live peaceful lives in their communities.
His film is not showing the caring, charitable teachings in Islam.
His film is not showing that the vast majority of Muslims does not engage in acts of terrorism and violence.
However, his film is showing the actions and words of a powerful minority of Muslims, who do indeed interpret certain verses in the Qu'ran in action which result in the stoning of adulteresses, the hanging of gay men, the beheading of infidels, and suicide bomb attacks.
Wilders did not invent this kind of footage.
These are the very real acts, by real people, committed in the name of Islam, based on real verses in the Qu'ran.
We cannot deny this!
What Muslims across world have to do is to ask themselves whether they agree. Agree with the Imams who call for the killing of Jews and other non-Muslims. Agree with stoning, beheading and hanging under various circumstances. Agree with suicide bombing aimed at civilians.
And if they don't agree, they must speak out. Loudly! Publically!
Perhaps the anger of Muslims should not be directed at Geert Wilders, but against those people who enabled him to make a film of such a nature in the first place!
But I am not just speaking about Islam here.
The Bible too, contains verses which - interpreted in certain ways - can lead to acts of hatred and violence. Christians too, commit crimes and atrocities in the name of God and their religion.
We need to speak out against such people. We need to condemn their actions and distance ourselves from them!
It is the violent and hateful acts of those people, which the world sees and associates with (our) religion.
Those acts are the reason for a growing secular voice, which asserts that religion leads to violence and that without religion this world would be a more peaceful place.
It is up to us, who represent God and our faiths on this earth, to show the world the love and compassion, the peace and goodness and charity of God - otherwise, how will the world know?
Peace to you all.
ReplyWith Geert Wilders being a right-wing politician, it is not difficult to guess what his motivations for this movie are ...
Clearly he is not trying to give a balanced presentation of Islam ...
His film is not showing the views/attitudes an lifestyles of the majority of Muslims who live peaceful lives in their communities.
His film is not showing the caring, charitable teachings in Islam.
His film is not showing that the vast majority of Muslims does not engage in acts of terrorism and violence.
However, his film is showing the actions and words of a powerful minority of Muslims, who do indeed interpret certain verses in the Qu'ran in action which result in the stoning of adulteresses, the hanging of gay men, the beheading of infidels, and suicide bomb attacks.
Wilders did not invent this kind of footage.
These are the very real acts, by real people, committed in the name of Islam, based on real verses in the Qu'ran.
We cannot deny this!
What Muslims across world have to do is to ask themselves whether they agree. Agree with the Imams who call for the killing of Jews and other non-Muslims. Agree with stoning, beheading and hanging under various circumstances. Agree with suicide bombing aimed at civilians.
And if they don't agree, they must speak out. Loudly! Publically!
Perhaps the anger of Muslims should not be directed at Geert Wilders, but against those people who enabled him to make a film of such a nature in the first place!
But I am not just speaking about Islam here.
The Bible too, contains verses which - interpreted in certain ways - can lead to acts of hatred and violence. Christians too, commit crimes and atrocities in the name of God and their religion.
We need to speak out against such people. We need to condemn their actions and distance ourselves from them!
It is the violent and hateful acts of those people, which the world sees and associates with (our) religion.
Those acts are the reason for a growing secular voice, which asserts that religion leads to violence and that without religion this world would be a more peaceful place.
It is up to us, who represent God and our faiths on this earth, to show the world the love and compassion, the peace and goodness and charity of God - otherwise, how will the world know?
Peace to you all.
Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
04-03-2008, 11:51 PM
my dad saw it :S he was showing me the movie. Its on a movie website...dunno if its still up. It didnt make me angry, just made me laff cuz they were all misconceptions. the guy is really in reality making fun of himself, cuz he does what every other punk does, leave out parts of the verses. So really i just laughed. And he will regret he ever did it, when he faces Allah(swt).
And to Glo's post. No good, sane, and practising Muslim would ever EVER agree to stuff like this. Those who know Islam correctly will never agree to it. Maybe i might be missing out, but i really haven't seen and movies against Christians by Muslims. And u would never find it on Jesus cuz we love him for Allahs sake and cuz we have to believe in him, otherwise we cant be considered Muslims.
ReplyAnd to Glo's post. No good, sane, and practising Muslim would ever EVER agree to stuff like this. Those who know Islam correctly will never agree to it. Maybe i might be missing out, but i really haven't seen and movies against Christians by Muslims. And u would never find it on Jesus cuz we love him for Allahs sake and cuz we have to believe in him, otherwise we cant be considered Muslims.
glo
04-04-2008, 12:12 AM
Hi Jazzy
What about those Imams and Muslim teachers shown in the film, calling for the killing of infidels? Are they all wrong? Are they not real Muslims?
What do you make of them?
What about those who carry out the killing of the adulterous woman? And the hanging of the gay men? Are they not real Muslims?
What do you think?
I don't consider this film to be motivated by a 'Christian against Muslims' sentiment.
I have not seen anywhere that Geert Wilders describes himself as a Christian ...
(Don't make the mistake to assume that everybody in the Western world, who is not a Muslim, is automatically a Christian. That's not the case.)
I think Wilders motivation is based on 'Islamisation vs Western democratic values'
ReplyWhat about those Imams and Muslim teachers shown in the film, calling for the killing of infidels? Are they all wrong? Are they not real Muslims?
What do you make of them?
What about those who carry out the killing of the adulterous woman? And the hanging of the gay men? Are they not real Muslims?
What do you think?
Maybe i might be missing out, but i really haven't seen and movies against Christians by Muslims. And u would never find it on Jesus cuz we love him for Allahs sake and cuz we have to believe in him, otherwise we cant be considered Muslims.
I have not seen anywhere that Geert Wilders describes himself as a Christian ...
(Don't make the mistake to assume that everybody in the Western world, who is not a Muslim, is automatically a Christian. That's not the case.)
I think Wilders motivation is based on 'Islamisation vs Western democratic values'
KAding
04-04-2008, 01:19 AM
I don't think Geert Wilders is a Christian though. He explicitely asked the Catholic church in his hometown to remove him from the members list. He is either an agnostic or an atheist. Islam doesn't love either :exhausted.
The number of movies or fatwa's online urging Muslims to not deal with the kafirs and expressing their evilness is quite mind boggling.
"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" ;).
ReplyThe number of movies or fatwa's online urging Muslims to not deal with the kafirs and expressing their evilness is quite mind boggling.
"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" ;).
KAding
04-04-2008, 02:06 AM
Sorry I'm going to be a bit nasty again, but apparently it is necessary to make some Muslims understand that some of their beliefs are by no means without 'offense'. Imagine some Dutch politician would release a book, film or manifest with the following message:
1. Dutch women should not be allowed to marry Muslims (http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=115&ln=eng)
2. Dutch people should not befriend Muslims (http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=11793&ln=eng)
3. The Dutch should not resemble or imitate Muslims (http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=1189&ln=eng)
4. Dutch social security benefits should only go to non-Muslims (http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=3854&ln=eng)
5. Muslims should be taxed differently from the rest of Dutch society
6. Dutch people should buy goods preferably from other ethnically Dutch people, rather than from a Muslim (http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=6699&ln=eng)
Just imagine the outcry. I could go on for quite a while there and all these rulings are from an apparently respected and mainstream website. And I don't even have to quote the offensive segments in Islamic holy books where we really aren't referred to in a respectable manner. I know many of these opinions are probably not shared by most Muslims, but they constitute a significant minority opinion, one which cannot simply be ignored. Just because Islamic insults and generalizations about the 'kuffaar' are written in an ancient book doesn't make them any less wrong. The Muslim community certainly has it's own disrespectful extremists, who IMHO are most certainly are not a shred better than Mr Wilders. Portraying Islam as an innocent doctrine that would never hurt the feelings of non-Muslims is very much false.
Reply1. Dutch women should not be allowed to marry Muslims (http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=115&ln=eng)
2. Dutch people should not befriend Muslims (http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=11793&ln=eng)
3. The Dutch should not resemble or imitate Muslims (http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=1189&ln=eng)
4. Dutch social security benefits should only go to non-Muslims (http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=3854&ln=eng)
5. Muslims should be taxed differently from the rest of Dutch society
6. Dutch people should buy goods preferably from other ethnically Dutch people, rather than from a Muslim (http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=6699&ln=eng)
Just imagine the outcry. I could go on for quite a while there and all these rulings are from an apparently respected and mainstream website. And I don't even have to quote the offensive segments in Islamic holy books where we really aren't referred to in a respectable manner. I know many of these opinions are probably not shared by most Muslims, but they constitute a significant minority opinion, one which cannot simply be ignored. Just because Islamic insults and generalizations about the 'kuffaar' are written in an ancient book doesn't make them any less wrong. The Muslim community certainly has it's own disrespectful extremists, who IMHO are most certainly are not a shred better than Mr Wilders. Portraying Islam as an innocent doctrine that would never hurt the feelings of non-Muslims is very much false.
Roasted Cashew
04-04-2008, 02:47 AM
Anyway, I heard that the Sheikh who answers on Islam q-a is a Salafi. Sometimes he is hard line.
Replysnakelegs
04-04-2008, 03:05 AM
i haven't watched it because i am sure someone is watching the number of hits and gloating. it sounds like classic fearmongering.
however, that said - i think glo (post#88) and KAding (post#92) raise valid issues that are of concern to many non-muslims (and i'm not talking about bigots here) about islam.
Replyhowever, that said - i think glo (post#88) and KAding (post#92) raise valid issues that are of concern to many non-muslims (and i'm not talking about bigots here) about islam.
Izyan
04-04-2008, 02:03 PM
1) Whether you are talking about nationality or religion it doesn't make it right to discourage muslims from marrying non muslims. Most of the time only women are encouraged not to marry non muslims. Men are encouraged to marry kaffirs and revert them.
2) The Quran explicitly says not to take Jews and christians as friends or companions.
3)Nothing is wrong with keeping with your culture but don't expect your host country to make exceptions for you.
4)I'm offended because it's offensive. the Zakat is a set amount Charity is not. 10 cents could be considered charity.
5) the Jizyah is for protection and it does not allow for the same rights as a muslim and you know it.
Reply2) The Quran explicitly says not to take Jews and christians as friends or companions.
3)Nothing is wrong with keeping with your culture but don't expect your host country to make exceptions for you.
4)I'm offended because it's offensive. the Zakat is a set amount Charity is not. 10 cents could be considered charity.
5) the Jizyah is for protection and it does not allow for the same rights as a muslim and you know it.
crayon
04-04-2008, 02:22 PM
muslims taking jews and christians as friends
Got that just now from another threads, props to Al Habeshi.
ReplyGot that just now from another threads, props to Al Habeshi.
Amat Allah
04-04-2008, 03:04 PM
people who encourage the others on killing innocent people or hurt them by tongue or by the hand are not real Muslims.....
anyway ,The Qura`n doesn`t encourage Muslims to kill or hurt innocent people ....
you have to read The Qura`n with meditation and conversance of its words to understad it correctly ......
The Qura`n is the words of The Lord Allah and Allah forbided the injustice on himself and on his creatures ,how would he order his creatures to be injustice ??
at the end ,in the hereafter Allah will repay all of his creatures rightly...
Allah says"Truly! Allah wrongs not mankind in aught; but mankind wrong themselves"
sura Yunus 44...
may Allah guide us all to the right path and I mean it guide us all....all of us to the right path...
ameeeeeen
with all my respect:
Amat Allah
peace
Replyanyway ,The Qura`n doesn`t encourage Muslims to kill or hurt innocent people ....
you have to read The Qura`n with meditation and conversance of its words to understad it correctly ......
The Qura`n is the words of The Lord Allah and Allah forbided the injustice on himself and on his creatures ,how would he order his creatures to be injustice ??
at the end ,in the hereafter Allah will repay all of his creatures rightly...
Allah says"Truly! Allah wrongs not mankind in aught; but mankind wrong themselves"
sura Yunus 44...
may Allah guide us all to the right path and I mean it guide us all....all of us to the right path...
ameeeeeen
with all my respect:
Amat Allah
peace
Al-Zaara
04-04-2008, 03:31 PM
Yes, they are wrong. They believe in God, but have the wrong opinions about other things in the faith. Now, aren't there Christians like that? Atheists like that? Of course they exist. Are they 'real'? Now what do we do with them?
Should we kill them? Should we kill the wrong-doing Muslims, Christians, Atheists, Jews..? If violence ain't the solution, which I do not believe it is, what can we do? You all could also give some suggestions, instead of going at us Muslims "what to do?". We don't know, you don't know, they don't know. Stupid dilemma.
No, how many times do we need to say that? Those popes who take advantage of young boys are they not real Christians?
Both are false, both idiotic sides. My father came to Finland, of all countries, 15 years ago. One week in this country and a well-learned teacher, from a famous university here who met him in a meeting and goes at him "In our history and religious books you Muslims are portrayed as blood-sucking beasts and barbaric people who hate peace. This is how history teaches us, don't expect goodness from us."
Hah. We obviously know the hate non Muslims have towards us is nothing new. You said about the ancient books insulting you are not any less insulting just cuz they are old. But ho! Why the heck bother about the ancient books, can't you look pass that? As said, it is a minority who has this great hate towards non Muslims, continue writing hateful books and with all due respect, do you await love and hugs from Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan after what the non Muslims do there today, not hundreds of years ago? Now you could throw an argument of the same kind right back at me, and probably someone will BUT what does that help?
We can discuss forever and be mainly satisfying our own needs to feel we're doing something, whilst others suffer daily.
ReplyShould we kill them? Should we kill the wrong-doing Muslims, Christians, Atheists, Jews..? If violence ain't the solution, which I do not believe it is, what can we do? You all could also give some suggestions, instead of going at us Muslims "what to do?". We don't know, you don't know, they don't know. Stupid dilemma.
What about those who carry out the killing of the adulterous woman? And the hanging of the gay men? Are they not real Muslims?
What do you think?
What do you think?
Both are false, both idiotic sides. My father came to Finland, of all countries, 15 years ago. One week in this country and a well-learned teacher, from a famous university here who met him in a meeting and goes at him "In our history and religious books you Muslims are portrayed as blood-sucking beasts and barbaric people who hate peace. This is how history teaches us, don't expect goodness from us."
Hah. We obviously know the hate non Muslims have towards us is nothing new. You said about the ancient books insulting you are not any less insulting just cuz they are old. But ho! Why the heck bother about the ancient books, can't you look pass that? As said, it is a minority who has this great hate towards non Muslims, continue writing hateful books and with all due respect, do you await love and hugs from Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan after what the non Muslims do there today, not hundreds of years ago? Now you could throw an argument of the same kind right back at me, and probably someone will BUT what does that help?
We can discuss forever and be mainly satisfying our own needs to feel we're doing something, whilst others suffer daily.
barney
04-04-2008, 11:12 PM
The bible dosnt actually say " Go have sex with and molest little kids" and as far as I'm aware no figure in the bible does that either.
It does tell beleivers in Christianity and judism to stone adultors. "stone them with stones" apparently. as opposed to stoning them with cheesecakes ofc.
You say that the two sites are idiotic. i'm sure that I could pull up another thosand sites that say the same thing. I'm sure you beleive that this interpretation of Islam is wrong. I'm sutre that a hundred thousand Imams would tell you that your wrong and a hundred thousand more tell you you are correct.
Who is actually right?
In the main part of your post you sum it up as "You lot do that to us", then talk about Afganistan.
What was the US presence in Afganistan on september the tenth 2001?
ReplyIt does tell beleivers in Christianity and judism to stone adultors. "stone them with stones" apparently. as opposed to stoning them with cheesecakes ofc.
You say that the two sites are idiotic. i'm sure that I could pull up another thosand sites that say the same thing. I'm sure you beleive that this interpretation of Islam is wrong. I'm sutre that a hundred thousand Imams would tell you that your wrong and a hundred thousand more tell you you are correct.
Who is actually right?
In the main part of your post you sum it up as "You lot do that to us", then talk about Afganistan.
What was the US presence in Afganistan on september the tenth 2001?
Al-Zaara
04-05-2008, 07:35 AM
No, I don't believe hundred of thousand would tell me that, absolutely not.
That's you're all problem, you really think so many would say that, wheres there are just a few who got the power to speak out in some places and therefor combined with the hate random Muslims have towards non Muslims exactly because they make them suffer in their countries, it makes it look like millions Imams have spoken.
Ooh, don't even try it. The US had been present in Afganistan way before 9/11, and to tell you the truth I didn't even think about 9/11 when writing that post, but if I had been, then think of a few fools who planned the attack compared to thousands of innocent ones, and then the army comes and makes their lives a hell. To think one can keep Afganistan out of here in thinking it's justified cuz "they attacked us", is ridicilous. Much more harm is done by the "revenge" of the US than the attack 9/11 ever did.
ReplyThat's you're all problem, you really think so many would say that, wheres there are just a few who got the power to speak out in some places and therefor combined with the hate random Muslims have towards non Muslims exactly because they make them suffer in their countries, it makes it look like millions Imams have spoken.
In the main part of your post you sum it up as "You lot do that to us", then talk about Afganistan.
What was the US presence in Afganistan on september the tenth 2001?
What was the US presence in Afganistan on september the tenth 2001?
rabarbara2008
04-05-2008, 07:09 PM
I totally agree on this post, couln't have said it in a better way :thumbs_up
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