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anatolian
03-28-2008, 01:30 PM
Salaam.I seek your knowledge, opinion and discusions about this isue..thanks
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rabarbara2008
04-04-2008, 04:15 PM
Maybe you can specify your question. How did you get this idea, is it based on Quran, ahadith, sayings from people, .. ?
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Fishman
04-04-2008, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Salaam.I seek your knowledge, opinion and discusions about this isue..thanks
:sl:
I read that the Shias do believe that non-Muslims are literally najis. They used to be forbidden from going outside in the rain by the Iranians (or Persians more probably) so that they would not 'wash onto' any Muslims and makes them impure.

I don't think Sunnis do think this in that sense at least.

But then wikipedia's articles are not exactly brilliant Islamic Fatwas, so you should find a real scholar rather than what ol' Jimbo Wales has to say...
:w:
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Ali.
04-04-2008, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I read that the Shias do believe that non-Muslims are literally najis.

No, they don't.

I'm not Shi'a by the way, I've just done a lot of personal research (talked to Shi'as and discussed with them as internet can produce many lies).
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Fishman
04-04-2008, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by Ali.
No, they don't.
:sl:
Must be just Jimbo's Bimbos (hahaha, funny name for Wikipedians) spreading unsourced disinformation again.

To read what Jimbo's Bimbos think, click here!
:w:
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Ali.
04-04-2008, 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Must be just Jimbo's Bimbos (hahaha, funny name for Wikipedians) spreading unsourced disinformation again.

To read what Jimbo's Bimbos think, click here!
:w:
:sl:

Jimbo's Bimbo's! Haha!

Yeah it probably is; man, jimbo's bimbo's these days eh? Ceeaw.

:w:
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anatolian
04-04-2008, 10:17 PM
This is the ayat where I come to this conclusion,

Tawba:28 O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.

It says "idolaters" but some fatwas say all non-muslims..

And I would like to learn what this means too.For example if a non-muslim touchs us do we have to take the wodoo again?
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Mikayeel
04-04-2008, 10:33 PM
:sl:

I thought that they were always considered unclean, due lavatory issues.
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Fishman
04-04-2008, 10:42 PM
People have weird myths about things that they do not know about. Like all those people who think pork tastes nasty just because it is haram. Why would anybody eat it if it tasted horrible?

P.S I probably smell more now as a Muslim than when I was a kafir but only because I have grown up more and sweat more. :D
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Mikayeel
04-04-2008, 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
True. People have weird myths about things that they do not know about. Like all those people who think pork tastes nasty just because it is haram. Why would anybody eat it if it tasted horrible?

P.S I probably smell more now as a Muslim than when I was a kafir but only because I have grown up more and sweat more. :D
:w:
:sl: fishman r u a revert? mashAllah never knew that:)
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Fishman
04-04-2008, 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
:sl: fishman r u a revert? mashAllah never knew that:)
:sl:
Yes...
:w:
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islamirama
04-05-2008, 06:37 AM
Originally Posted by anatolian
This is the ayat where I come to this conclusion,

Tawba:28 O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.

It says "idolaters" but some fatwas say all non-muslims..

And I would like to learn what this means too.For example if a non-muslim touchs us do we have to take the wodoo again?
Salaams bro,

Surah Tawba (reprentence): (O ye who believe! The idolaters only are unclean) impure. (So let them not come near the Inviolable Place of Worship) for pilgrimage and circumambulation (after this their year) the year of freedom from obligation (bara'ah) after the day of immolation. (If ye fear poverty) impoverishment and neediness (Allah shall preserve you of His bounty) of His provision in another way (if He will) when He wills and will make you dispense with trading with Bakr Ibn Wa'il. (Lo! Allah is Knower) of your sustenance, (Wise) in that which He has ordained for you.

The above verse came when Muslims were in power in mecca. Before then, all the arabs (pagan or not) used to do "hajj" following practice of Abraham but with their own innovations. They used to do it while naked, claiming it is how Allah made them so they should do it in their natural state. They also had hundreds of status in the kaba that they worshiped. When Muslims took over, the got rid of all of the idols and cleaned up the kaba to the way it was at Abraham's time.

Tafsir (explanation):

Allah commands His believing servants, who are pure in religion and person, to expel the idolators who are filthy in the religious sense, from Al-Masjid Al-Haram. After the revelation of this Ayah, idolators were no longer allowed to go near the Masjid. This Ayah was revealed in the ninth year of Hijrah. The Messenger of Allah sent `Ali in the company of Abu Bakr that year to publicize to the idolators that no Mushrik will be allowed to perform Hajj after that year, nor a naked person allowed to perform Tawaf around the House. Allah completed this decree, made it a legislative ruling, as well as, a fact of reality.

`Abdur-Razzaq recorded that Jabir bin `Abdullah commented on the Ayah,

(O you who believe! Verily, the Mushrikin are impure. So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Haram after this year) "Unless it was a servant or one of the people of Dhimmah.'

http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=20958

Notice the last part above. Mushrikins are impure, they are not allowed in the masjid. They are idolators who set up partners with Allah. It also says, not let them come near the masjid unless it was a "servant (muslim) or one of the people of Dhimmah", you have Muslims and dhimmis (people of the book - christians, jews) who were not prohibited.

So to make long answer short, ayah was revealed to expelled the idol worshipers from the most holiest masjid and Allah promises sustenance from other sources for the people that were worried that their business will go down. Touching non-Muslims won't break your wudu.

Masjids are pure places and Islam emphasizes not only cleanliness but also purity. There's a difference between being pure/impure and being clean. For example, a female who is menstruating maybe clean but she is impure till she finishes her bodily function and do ghusl(islamic bath) and then she is allowed to pray or touch the Quran. Same thing for couples who make love, they have to do ghusl to purify themselves before they can touch the Quran or do their prayers.

Hope that helps some what inshallah...

-------------------------------------------

Barney,

Cleanliness is 1/3 (or 1/2 ...not sure) of the eman (faith) in Islam. Good hygienes are important for us all no matter what our faith or society is. There are lot of people who are not very clean because they don't have any hygienic manners. Purity/impurity and cleanliness are close but they are not the same thing.

anyways, glad to know you wash your hands. Most americans (men and women) don't wash their hands, especially after leaving the restroom. I know because I see it daily and make a note of not shaking hands with such people if i run into them.

also, westerner use toilet paper and not wash themselves. I"m sure they think they are clean but are they really? if someone threw dog crap in your face, will you just wipe it off or go wash your face? just thinking out loud...

Lastly, some people can be clean and still be smelly. For example, those who eat ham/pork do smell. They may take a shower everyday but they still smell. The order is produced by their body for consuming that trash bin (pork) of mother nature. I don't speak of myself only, event his one professor i had long ago agreed to it. In face, he said in class that "we americans who eat pork smell cuz of the meat, even when we take shower everyday. Now that may make one a "smelly kuffar" but that would be more in a true sense of the definition than derogatory :D

Anyways, just thought i give you something to ponder over. As to a response to your statement, this ayah of the Quran is not talking about you, so relax and go play with your friends and whatever those other dinos are called.:D
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crayon
04-05-2008, 01:18 PM
That's true, the same thing can be said. Which is why eating garlic before going to meet people during prayers is disliked in islam.

"Ibn Suhaib reported: Anas was asked about the garlic; he stated that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had said: He who eats of this plant (garlic) should not approach us and pray along with us."
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Fishman
04-05-2008, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Try standing next to a heavy pork eater. It's not that they are unhygenic, but rather that their bodies being to omit this order do to consumption of that particular meat. I speak from first hand experience also, not just mere words.
:sl:
My whole family eats pork all the time and they don't stink. Why would the body have to 'omit' a process to digest pork? Its pretty similar to other meat except for the fact that it is haram and religiously unclean.
:w:
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Intisar
04-05-2008, 04:22 PM
:sl: I've deleted all of the off-topic/unnecessary posts; please stay on topic, and if you can be of assistance then inshaa Allaah do so, and if not just stay out of this topic. This is the ''Fiqh'' section, and not to be taken lightly.
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barney
04-05-2008, 05:30 PM
Can someone explain the Lavatory issues please?
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'Abd al-Baari
04-05-2008, 05:38 PM
Greetings,

What do you mean barney?, an explanation into what akhee islamirama said?

Peace :)
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barney
04-05-2008, 06:20 PM
Yeah, apparently Kaffirs have toiletry issues:/

Just wanted to know what they were.
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islamirama
04-05-2008, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
My whole family eats pork all the time and they don't stink. Why would the body have to 'omit' a process to digest pork? Its pretty similar to other meat except for the fact that it is haram and religiously unclean.
:w:
:w:

I would think it would vary person to person as to how heavy eaters they are, how much they clean their meat and what not. But this professor was a heavy pork eater and yea you could smell him from 3 feet away. It wasn't sweaty smell or anything ok normal humans smell. It was a different smell, suffocating almost and it is the type i've smelled only from pork eaters, although not all pork eaters.

Originally Posted by barney
Yeah, apparently Kaffirs have toiletry issues:/

Just wanted to know what they were.
Have you studied the european's history during Muslim empire expansion? Since Islam emphaises cleanliness and Muslims took care of themselves. The europeans stopped taking showers and what not to be come very smelly just to spite Muslims.

anyways, just ask yourself this barney. Why would you wash your face rather then wipe it with a napkin if a bird drops poop on it or if you got smacked with dog crap from someone and yet are ok with using tissue post toilet use?
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Fishman
04-05-2008, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Yeah, apparently Kaffirs have toiletry issues:/

Just wanted to know what they were.
:sl:
To say it simply and plainly, non-Muslims only use toilet paper whilst Muslims use water as well.

Toilet topic... +o(+o(
:w:
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