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Mikayeel
04-01-2008, 12:13 AM
Salam alykum

I have read this, and wanted to know how true all of this is?

Guys to make it clear, these 10 so called useless body parts are not my words. I have got them from msn.co.uk

I had various none Muslims (atheist ) speak to me that we are not created in a perfect state, because we have a lot of useless body parts.

I wanted to know how to answer them back.


10. Plica semilunaris
You may not know it, but you have a third eyelid. Pull open the two more noticeable eyelids and take a look -- it's located right in the corner by the tear duct. This small third eyelid is left over from what's known as a "nictitating membrane," which is still present in full form in some animals including chickens, lizards and sharks.


9. Body hair
No doubt we were once hairier. Up until about 3 million years ago, we were covered with body hair. But by the time Homo erectus arrived, the ability to sweat meant we could shed our woolly ways.


8. Sinuses
Doctors don't really know much about sinuses -- only that we have a lot of them. Possibilities for their function range from insulating our eyes to changing the pitch and tone of our voice.


7. Adenoids
Adenoids trap bacteria, but they're also prone to swelling and infection. Just ask any 7-year-old. Luckily, our adenoids shrink with age and are often removed, along with ...


6. Tonsils
Also prone to swelling and infection. If you still have them when you reach your 30s, it's almost an accomplishment.


5. Coccyx
More useful as a game-winning Scrabble word than as part of the anatomy, the coccyx or tailbone, is made up of several fused vertebrae left over from the olden days when we had tails.


4. Arrector pili
When we were hairier (see No. 9), the arrector pili made the hairs stand on end when we needed to appear bigger and scarier. Now, it just gives us goose bumps.


3. Wisdom teeth
Back in the day, when we ate mammoth meat off the bone and didn't floss afterward, our teeth tended to fall out. Therefore, when those reserve molars, aka "wisdom teeth," came in, they were welcomed. Nowadays, fluoride and dental plans have made them just a huge pain.


2. Appendix
Darwin claimed the appendix was useful for digestion during our early plant-eating years; it's dwindled down to little since we started eating more digestible foods.


1. Male nipples
Because, why?
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Asper
04-01-2008, 01:09 AM
Originally Posted by Hamada
I have read this, and wanted to know how true all of this is?

1. Male nipples
Because, why?[/B]
I can attest for this!

Male nipples aren't exactly a genetic glitch: they are evidence of our developmental clock. In the early stages of life from conception until about 14 weeks, all human fetuses look the same, regardless of gender. At the tender age of 14 weeks post-fertilization , genetically-male fetuses begin to produce male hormones including testosterone. These hormones turn the androgynous fetus into a bouncing baby boy.

Here's where the developmental clock comes in. By 14 weeks, when the hormones turn on, the nipples have already formed. So, while our male fetus goes on to become a baby boy, he keeps his nipples, reminding all of us that people, male and female, started off the same way.


compliments of http://amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/nipples.html
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Science101
04-01-2008, 01:36 AM
Good answer Asper! It looks like all of it was accurate.

I was also working on an explanation for number 1. Without of course getting too graphic in detail. :D

The reason men have nipples is because the genes to make them (and other sex organs) are not in the X or Y sex chromosome that makes us either male or female. As we develop, hormones from the X and Y chromosome act upon the sex organs that both sexes start out with so that in time they become a little different. For example male testes, are female ovaries but in females they move inwards to grow eggs. All a male has, a female has too, but hormones change what they end up becoming when fully developed.

This probably reflects a time when we were asexual (only one sex that self-reproduces) which is still common in the animal world. The laboratory nematode worm called C. Elegans is like this and every once in a while a male is born that will mate with the others even though they don't need males to reproduce.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._elegans
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جوري
04-01-2008, 01:54 AM
Salaamz akhi..
I was surprised to see such a post by your person..
I should take the time to say that I am not back, I don't get 20 mins to myself and have to be up at 4:30Am every morning, thus, if you are an atheist with a gripe to what I am to write here pls exercise and flex that wit where it won't fall on blind eyes..

with that being said. I don't wish to actually take the time to respond to each 'useless body part' singly, some adequate research on any reputable scientific journal and not some crap perpetuated by atheists will designate a proper function to each of the afore mentioned parts.
here let me demonstrate with just one article from Duke!
http://inside.duke.edu/article.php?I...ParentID=17259
Appendix Isn’t Useless at All: It’s a Safe House for Bacteria
By Richard Merritt

Long denigrated as vestigial or useless, the appendix now appears to have a reason to be ��" as a “safe house” for the beneficial bacteria living in the human gut.

Drawing upon a series of observations and experiments, Duke University Medical Center investigators postulate that the beneficial bacteria in the appendix that aid digestion can ride out a bout of diarrhea that completely evacuates the intestines and emerge afterwards to repopulate the gut. Their theory appears online in the Journal of Theoretical Biology.

“While there is no smoking gun, the abundance of circumstantial evidence makes a strong case for the role of the appendix as a place where the good bacteria can live safe and undisturbed until they are needed,” said William Parker, Ph.D., assistant professor of experimental surgery, who conducted the analysis in collaboration with R. Randal Bollinger, M.D., Ph.D., Duke professor emeritus in general surgery.

The appendix is a slender two- to four-inch pouch located near the juncture of the large and small intestines. While its exact function in humans has been debated by physicians, it is known that there is immune system tissue in the appendix.

The gut is populated with different microbes that help the digestive system break down the foods we eat. In return, the gut provides nourishment and safety to the bacteria, a role Parker now believes extends to the appendix.

Parker has studied the interplay of these bacteria in the bowels, and in the process has documented the existence in the bowel of what is known as a biofilm. This thin and delicate layer is an amalgamation of microbes, mucous and immune system molecules living together atop of the lining the intestines.

“Our studies have indicated that the immune system protects and nourishes the colonies of microbes living in the biofilm,” Parker explained.

Other than humans, the only mammals known to have appendices are rabbits, opossums and wombats.

Other Duke members of the team were Andrew Barbas, Errol Bush, and Shu Lin.
speaking of male nipples.. well if nothing else they are aesthetically pleasing.. would you palate michelangelo's david if it were a flat piece of marble? that aside, a nipple may actually let down in case of a lactotroph adenoma thus enabling you to know that you are in a diseased state and need some medical attention! See nothing is useless after all!
Why, why why many things and anything.. that is for a Muslim to reflect on and with any luck arrive to the brilliance of Allah (SWT).. and for the kaffir to find a thousand asinine observation to perpetuate useless lists of ten on various blogs...

Akhi fi al'Islam
There isn't a leaf on this earth that descends to its death in multitudes of colors that awaken your senses to its splendor save that Allah SWT knows of it..



:w:
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جوري
04-01-2008, 02:17 AM
here is a little bit on sinuses
anato and physio..

ANATOMY AND PHYSIOLOGY*—*Humans have four pairs of sinuses named for the bones of the skull that they pneumatize (show figure 1 and show figure 2). The maxillary, ethmoid (divided into anterior and posterior cells), frontal, and sphenoid sinuses are air-containing spaces that are lined by pseudostratified, columnar epithelium bearing cilia. The sinus mucosa contains goblet cells, which secrete mucus that aids in trapping inhaled particles and debris.

Each of the sinuses has an ostium, a distinct bony opening, through which it drains. The cilia beat in such a way as to direct secretions towards the natural ostium. This pattern of mucociliary clearance is essential for the proper health and function of the paranasal sinuses [6].

The ostiomeatal complex (OMC) is a series of narrow bony openings and clefts in the anterior ethmoid region. The OMC serves as a common drainage pathway for the frontal, maxillary, and ethmoid sinuses. Its patency is critical for normal sinus drainage and ventilation (show figure 3).

The nasal septum is a midline structure that divides the nose into two roughly equal-sized nasal cavities. This bony-cartilaginous partition is frequently deviated to one side from congenital deformity or nasal trauma. The lateral nasal wall contains the inferior, middle, and superior turbinates. These scroll-shaped bones, which are lined with a mucus membrane, serve to warm, humidify, and filter inspired air prior to its reaching the lungs. The inferior, middle, and superior meatuses are clefts located beneath each of the corresponding turbinates. The middle meatus is of particular functional importance, as it contains the OMC and serves as a drainage pathway for the maxillary, ethmoid, and frontal sinuses.
uptodate.com

do the same for the rest and you'll be set!

:w:
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Science101
04-01-2008, 03:00 AM
The Best Cure for Hiccups: Remind Your Brain You're Not a Fish

By Alexis Madrigal February 25, 2008 | 4:00:18 PMCategories: Evolution

One of the most perplexing and vexing of mild human afflictions is the hiccup, or as it is medically known, the singultus. Through the years, many (ineffective) remedies have been suggested, from holding your breath to scaring yourself. But a larger question remained unresolved: why do humans have these involuntary spasms of the diaphragm, which produce uncontrollable funny noises at irregular and inconvenient times?
Now, University of Chicago anatomist, Neil Shubin, has provided the world with an explanation in his book Your Inner Fish. As described in the Guardian:
Hiccups are triggered by electric signals generated in the brain stem. Amphibian brain stems emit similar signals, which control the regular motion of their gills. Our brain stems, inherited from amphibian ancestors, still spurt out odd signals producing hiccups that are, according to Shubin, essentially the same phenomenon as gill breathing.
This is atavism, or evolutionary throwback activity, at work. Luckily, you do eventually stop trying to breathe through your gills when it dawns on your brain that you are actually a modern human, not a prehistoric fish.
So perhaps the next time you are hit with a serious bout of the hiccups, instead of drinking a shot of vinegar, concentrate on your humanity. Just read some Descartes, or Harold Bloom's Shakespeare opus, The Invention of the Human, and you'll be breathing like a person in no time.
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2...ion-expla.html
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MustafaMc
04-01-2008, 03:12 AM
Originally Posted by Hamada
9. Body hair
No doubt we were once hairier. Up until about 3 million years ago, we were covered with body hair. But by the time Homo erectus arrived, the ability to sweat meant we could shed our woolly ways.
?
This reminded me of a show that I saw about a couple of brothers from Mexico whose fases are covered in hair. This is a picture of Larry Gomez.
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Science101
04-01-2008, 03:31 AM
It might not be the same hair as our ancestors had, but it shows that the genes to make plenty of it are still there. And we still have hair that we often wish we didn't have. Especially women who spend a lot of money for hair removal.
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Pen Marks
04-01-2008, 03:49 AM
hmmm...and here i grew up thinkng everything in our body has a purpose
Ina Khalaqna Al-insana fi A7sani Taqweem
Verily we have created man in the best way
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snakelegs
04-01-2008, 03:58 AM
i think just because we don't know the purpose for something, we can't say that it's useless - only that we don't know its use.
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Science101
04-01-2008, 05:01 AM
Hi Mu'minah! And snake-legs!!!

I'm only halfway there, but the older we get the more we discover about this and other things when our bodies start falling apart. End up with back problems because walking upright is bad for the spine, but our front legs are now arms so we can't go back to running on all four legs when we now only have two. We need hip replacements and all kinds of surgery to correct defects in our design. And the longest living animals include clams, sea urchins and tortoises, but not humans! We are not the fastest, or strongest, and are easily hurt in a fall other animals would not even worry about, cannot live in deep water, but we do have a big brain that is nice to have.

I found a good presentation written by real scientists on this topic. Here is a paragraph from it that needs to be in this thread:

1. Vestiges can be functional
First, and most importantly, this line of argumentation is beside the point, since it is unnecessary for vestiges to lack a function (see Muller 2002 for a modern discussion of the vestigial concept that specifically includes functionality). Many true vestiges are functional (for many examples see Culver et al. 1995). In popular usage "vestigial" is often believed to be synonymous with "nonfunctional", and this confusion unfortunately has been propagated via poorly-worded definitions found in many non-technical dictionaries and encyclopedias. Even some professional research biologists have fallen prey to this oversimplification of the vestigial concept (for instance, Scadding 1981, often quoted by anti-evolutionists and discussed in the Citing Scadding (1981) and Misunderstanding Vestigiality FAQ). The statement that vestigial structures are functionless is a convenient, yet strictly incorrect, approximation. It is analogous to the common, yet strictly incorrect, scientific claim that the earth is a sphere.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section2.html

Some vestiges may still serve some minor function, but are not vital, and may at some point have to be removed.
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ranma1/2
04-01-2008, 05:46 AM
Originally Posted by Science101
It might not be the same hair as our ancestors had, but it shows that the genes to make plenty of it are still there. And we still have hair that we often wish we didn't have. Especially women who spend a lot of money for hair removal.
from my understanding we have prettymuch close to the same number of hairs on our bodies as other primates but they are much smaller and finer.

and just a reminder something can be vestigial but not be useless.
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Science101
04-01-2008, 06:12 AM
From looking at my hands and arms, I can see that you might be right. And I'm not hairy like some who have a full coat of fur on their backs. Except on my head, but that is good hair.
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Azy
04-01-2008, 07:06 AM
If the appendix is so useful why do only 4 types of animal have one?
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جوري
04-01-2008, 09:44 AM
Originally Posted by Science101

I'm only halfway there, but the older we get the more we discover about this and other things when our bodies start falling apart. End up with back problems because walking upright is bad for the spine,
.
lol... walking upright is bad for our spine? where do you come up with this brilliance? Go tell that to people who have Duchenne and Becker's muscular dystrophy suffering from Gowers' sign ... God I leave for a few weeks and the atheists come up with such delightful fairy tales in the semblance of science.. hilarious..


as for why only four types of animals have appendix, if in fact that can be verified and not have come from an amusing little email trivia circulated by trivial minds.. one might also pose the question why don't we have gills or a gastric mill or colorful feathers to attract the opposite sex in a tantalizing dance! each being, is created with what suits and aids it for survival!


I think we should impose some sort of a tariff on inane comments and queries, this server wouldn't be crashing every so often.. sheesh..

:w:
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crayon
04-01-2008, 12:43 PM
Tonsils:

1-Monitor the quality of the air, food and water which enter our body
2-Play a major role in body immunity mechanism and antibody reaction most probably in childhood
3-Helpful in forming lymphocytes (white blood cells) which protect our body as a defense mechanism.
4-Become as red swollen inflamed mass (danger light) indicating any infection entering our body
5-Trap the germs that enter the body by its antibodies and drains it into the lymph node for elimination
6-Also supposed to kill bacteria that enter into the tonsil through the blood stream.


Got that from a site, it's consistent with what I know.
Also, from what I've read online, the adenoids are basically the same thing as tonsils..
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Azy
04-01-2008, 06:26 PM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
lol... walking upright is bad for our spine? where do you come up with this brilliance?
Journal of Neurosurgery (PDF) - in short, the change in muscle function and bone position puts a lot of undue stress on the lumbar vertebrae.
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
as for why only four types of animals have appendix, if in fact that can be verified and not have come from an amusing little email trivia circulated by trivial minds.. one might also pose the question why don't we have gills or a gastric mill or colorful feathers to attract the opposite sex in a tantalizing dance! each being, is created with what suits and aids it for survival!
If you bothered to read the posts, you'd see that it was described as a place 'friendly bacteria' could take refuge during bouts of diarrhoea or similar. If that was the case then surely if you were going to build animals capable of having diarrhoea, you'd give them an appendix also.
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جوري
04-01-2008, 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
Journal of Neurosurgery (PDF) - in short, the change in muscle function and bone position puts a lot of undue stress on the lumbar vertebrae.
These are esoteric causes of back pain, people can make all sorts of conjectures in science...I can already find at least a couple of confounders with the journal. Lots of research comes out every year.. Just consult with some of the regular atheists on the forum... they'll amuse you with how big a dent they can put into articles when they haven't even mediocre knowledge of molecular bio simply because it argues against their beliefs!

here is what is found to be practical and practiced and understood in every day medicine as acceptable and studied causes of back pain!

Licensed to M ©2007 UpToDate®


Peter A Nigrovic, MD
Andrew P Wilking, MD



UpToDate performs a continuous review of over 375 journals and other resources. Updates are added as important new information is published. The literature review for version 15.2 is current through April 2007; this topic was last changed on January*10,*2007. The next version of UpToDate (15.3) will be released in October 2007.

INTRODUCTION*—*Back pain is an uncommon presenting complaint in children. Although benign musculoskeletal disease or trauma accounts for most cases, congenital or acquired conditions such as infection, noninfectious inflammatory disease, and neoplasm must be excluded (show table 1).

The differential diagnosis of back pain in children and adolescents is reviewed here. The epidemiology and evaluation of back pain in children is discussed separately. (See "Evaluation of the child with back pain").

MUSCULOSKELETAL

Nonspecific musculoskeletal pain*—*In most larger published series, even from referral centers, most children with back pain receive no definitive diagnosis [1-3]. These children typically are thought to have "muscle strain" or a similar benign source of discomfort. Such muscle strain may be caused by a backpack overloaded with heavy school books. The American Academy of Pediatrics has developed a guide to the safe use of backpacks and one of its recommendations is that a backpack should never weigh more than 10 to 20 percent of the child's body weight [4]. An especially soft mattress may cause morning back pain and stiffness [5]. Most such children do well, although a fraction of them will have prolonged and occasionally disabling pain similar to chronic back pain in adults. A small number of females complain that their disproportionately large breasts are a cause of back pain. Depression, anxiety, and psychosocial distress are regularly found at elevated levels in children complaining of nonspecific back pain [2,6,7].

Spondylolysis and spondylolisthesis*—*Spondylolysis is a unilateral or bilateral defect (separation) in the vertebral pars interarticularis, usually in the lower lumbar vertebrae, particularly L5. Spondylolisthesis occurs when bilateral defects permit anterior slippage of the vertebral body (show figure 1).

Spondylolysis may be congenital (malformations of the facet joints) but more typically is acquired as the bone "fatigues" from recurrent microtrauma during excessive lumbar hyperextension. Thus, it is a common problem in gymnasts, dancers, divers, weight lifters, and football linemen [8-10]; soccer players and other sports participants also are at risk [11], while some patients with spondylolysis have no identified risk factors [12]. Spondylolysis was present in almost one-half of adolescent athletes who were evaluated for acute low back pain in a sports medicine clinic [13].

Spondylolysis also occurs in the general population. A carefully-done natural history study of 500 children found a prevalence of 4.4 percent by age six years and 6 percent by adulthood [14]. Caucasians are at higher risk than are blacks, and boys are at higher risk than are girls, although girls progress to spondylolisthesis more often. Additional risk factors include a family history of spondylolysis [15,16] and occult spina bifida at S1 [12].

In one series of 185 patients with 346 defects who were seen in a sports medicine clinic, 90 percent of defects occurred at L5, 80 percent were bilateral, and 4 percent of patients had defects at more than one level [17]. Approximately 20 percent had begun to slip at first evaluation. Further progression after initial presentation seldom occurs, especially after the adolescent growth spurt [12].

Spondylolysis manifests as aching low back pain that is exacerbated by lumbar hyperextension but may be asymptomatic. The typical age of presentation is early adolescence. If unilateral, the pain may be localized to the side of lysis. On examination, the patient often has a positive ipsilateral one-legged hyperextension test (show figure 2) [18]. Standing on one leg, the patient leans backward. Pain ipsilateral to the weight-bearing leg constitutes a positive test. Hamstring tightness is observed commonly, manifest by limited passive straight leg raising (SLR), and limited forward bending. In spondylolisthesis, a prominent spinous process may be palpated if significant slippage is present. If the slip is severe enough, the sacrum becomes relatively more vertical, impairing hip extension and compelling the patient to walk with a knee-flexed, hip-flexed gait (Phalen-Dickson sign) [19]. Neurologic impairment from spondylolisthesis rarely occurs because the vertebra slips anteriorly away from the spinal cord and nerve roots.

Imaging begins with lumbosacral plain films, including oblique views, which reveal the spondylolysis as a crack (or collar) on the neck of the "Scotty dog" (show figure 1). Early or incipient fractures may escape detection on plain films, but they can be detected by bone scan [18]. Bone scan also can distinguish whether a fracture is new or old, which has implications for potential healing [20,21]. Early detection is important because progression to spondylolisthesis correlates with poorer long-term prognosis for healing and pain relief [17,22].

Treatment of spondylolysis and spondylolisthesis is controversial and should be managed by an orthopedic specialist. Therapeutic modalities include rest and lumbar bracing to prevent hyperextension. Surgical fusion is indicated for intractable pain or slippage of greater than 50 percent in a child who is still growing and, therefore, at risk of progression, whether or not symptoms are present [12].

Scoliosis*—*Scoliosis is defined as an abnormal lateral curvature of the spine and can be idiopathic or result from congenital spinal anomalies, muscular spasm or paralysis, infection, tumor, or other causes.

Systematic surveys have documented that musculoskeletal back pain occurs more commonly among patients with scoliosis than among matched controls [23,24]. Among more than 2000 patients evaluated for idiopathic adolescent scoliosis at one center, 23 percent had back pain at presentation [25]. No correlation was found with degree of curvature. Only 9 percent of 560 patients with pain had a cause other than scoliosis, of which spondylolysis and Scheuermann kyphosis were the most common. The authors concluded that evaluation beyond plain radiographs rarely was necessary [25]. However, scoliosis that presents atypically (for instance, before age 10 years, with neurologic signs, or with rapid progression) should be evaluated aggressively to rule out an underlying cause such as tumor or syringomyelia (a cystic degeneration of the spinal cord) [26,27]. A thoracic curve convex to the left is associated with an underlying cause slightly more often than is a rightward curve, but the difference is too small to have important implications for the evaluation of the child with scoliosis [28].

Scheuermann kyphosis (juvenile kyphosis)*—*Scheuermann kyphosis is defined as anterior wedging of 5 degrees or greater in at least three adjacent vertebral bodies, as measured on lateral spine radiographs [29]. Degeneration of the vertebral end plates may be seen radiographically as well (show radiograph 1).

Onset typically occurs in early adolescence, with localization to the thoracic or thoracolumbar spine. Some degree of Scheuermann-like change is quite common: one survey of 500 17- and 18-year-old New Zealanders found an incidence of 56 percent in males and 30 percent in females, although changes were severe in only 7 percent and 1.8 percent, respectively, closer to other estimates of disease prevalence, ranging from 4 to 8 percent [29,30]. Tall males were found to be at higher risk for developing severe disease.

Scheuermann kyphosis presents as a rigid thoracic kyphosis with a relatively sharp angulation when the child bends over, best viewed from the side of the patient. The diagnosis can be missed if the thoracic curvature is ascribed to poor posture. However, clinical examination is neither sensitive nor specific [30]. The etiology of Scheuermann kyphosis remains undefined. An association with sports or heavy lifting remains controversial, although a period of prolonged bed rest has been found more commonly in patients than controls, suggesting that the wedging reflects compression fractures associated with transient osteoporosis [30].

Pain related to Scheuermann kyphosis typically is subacute in onset without a clear episode of precipitating trauma. It is worse after activity and at the end of the day and improves with rest. Pain tends to improve with skeletal maturity, although long-term follow-up has shown an elevated prevalence of back pain in adulthood [31]. Because Scheuermann kyphosis is associated with spondylolysis, oblique radiographs should be considered to rule out this condition if clinically indicated [32].

Conservative management with strengthening and stretching exercises, analgesics, and avoidance of precipitants is all that usually is necessary for treatment, although bracing or other orthopedic interventions are required if pain is persistent or the kyphosis exceeds 60 degrees [29,33].

Degenerative disc disease*—*Herniation of the nucleus pulposus is a far less common cause of back pain in children than in adults, making up no more than a few percent of all disc operations in most series [34]. Risk factors include acute trauma [35] and Scheuermann kyphosis. A family history of disc herniation was noted in 32 percent of 63 children (younger than 21 years) who underwent surgery for disc disease, compared to 7 percent of controls (RR 5, 95% CI 1.7-14.6) [36]. Presentation before the age of 10 rarely occurs, though cases have been reported in early childhood. Degenerative changes of the discs are seen on pathology, as is the case in adults [37].

Even in the absence of abject prolapse, degenerative disc changes (with or without disc calcification) are associated with pain in some adolescents, although in others they may be no more than an incidental finding [38,39].

The presentation of degenerative disc disease in children is similar to that in adults. L4-L5 and L5-S1 are most frequently involved, and lumbar pain, sciatica, limitation of spinal flexibility, and a positive SLR test commonly are present (show table 2) [34,35,40,41]. (See "Approach to the diagnosis and evaluation of low back pain in adults" and see "Evaluation of the child with back pain" section on Straight leg raising).

Initial treatment is conservative, although surgical therapy generally is successful if indicated for neurologic deficits or intractable pain [42].

Disc space calcification*—*Intervertebral disc space calcification is an idiopathic, presumed postinflammatory, and generally transient condition that typically affects preadolescent children from infancy onward [43]. In contrast to degenerative disc changes, which usually are lumbar, calcification typically involves cervical and/or thoracic discs. This condition can be an incidental finding or can present with torticollis or back pain, particularly because herniation occurs in one-quarter of cases [43]. The course usually is benign, and spontaneous resolution of calcification commonly occurs [44].

Other*—*Other mechanical causes of back pain include congenital absence of a lumbar pedicle [45], idiopathic juvenile osteoporosis [46], aneurysmal bone cyst of the spine, vertebral apophyseal fracture from rapid hyperflexion in dancers or gymnasts [47,48], and sacroiliac joint stress reaction related to sports training [49].

INFECTIOUS*—*Infectious causes of back pain in children and adolescents include discitis, vertebral osteomyelitis (including tuberculous), epidural abscess, and sacroiliac joint infection. Nonspinal infections that can present with back pain include paraspinous muscle abscess, pyelonephritis, pneumonia, pelvic inflammatory disease, endocarditis, and myalgia caused by viral illness.

Discitis*—*Inflammation of the intervertebral disc is a relatively rare disease of childhood, with an incidence of one to two per 32,500 pediatric hospitalizations and clinic visits at one academic medical center [50].

Discitis usually presents with the gradual onset of irritability and back pain or refusal to walk, without systemic toxicity and only occasionally accompanied by fever [51]. Children typically have had symptoms for three or more weeks by the time the diagnosis is made [51,52]. In some patients, abdominal pain may be the only complaint. The usual age of presentation is infancy to three years, though cases may occur through adolescence [53]. The lower lumbar discs are affected most commonly, but any disc (and occasionally more than one) may be involved. Neurologic findings (eg, decreased muscle strength or reflexes) may be present [54]. Fever is present in approximately one-quarter of patients, blood cultures typically are sterile, and the white blood cell count usually is normal, although the erythrocyte sedimentation rate is elevated in more than 90 percent of patients [50,55].

The etiology of discitis is controversial. A significant proportion (as many as 60 percent) [55] of biopsied discs grow bacteria, usually Staphylococcus aureus. However, children often recover without antibiotic therapy. In fact, given the mild and nonspecific manner in which these patients can present, many cases probably go undiagnosed. The current consensus, backed by scant supportive evidence, is that discitis in children is a low-grade infection. Host defense systems usually are capable of overcoming the infection without assistance because the disc is richly vascularized up to seven years of age [50,56]. Occasionally, however, host defenses are overwhelmed, and complications such as abscess formation may result [55].

Plain radiographs usually are normal at the start of the illness, but by two to three weeks later they illustrate narrowing of the intervertebral space [51]. Occasionally, the diagnosis is made incidentally on radiographs performed to exclude intraabdominal pathology [50].

Diagnosis of discitis is best made by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), which can define the inflammation and exclude alternative diagnoses such as vertebral osteomyelitis and tumor. MRI frequently documents involvement of both adjacent vertebral end plates as well, suggesting that significant overlap between discitis and vertebral osteomyelitis may be present [55]. Bone scan also can localize the inflammation, but lack of specificity and imperfect sensitivity limit the utility of this modality [57]. (See "Evaluation and diagnosis of hematogenous osteomyelitis in children").

Treatment for discitis is not standardized. Aspiration of the affected disc for culture usually is not performed. Limited retrospective data suggest that initial treatment with intravenous antibiotics until the child shows clinical improvement, followed by oral antibiotics, is associated with a somewhat more rapid response and fewer relapses than is treatment with oral antibiotics or analgesia alone [55]. Empiric antibiotic therapy should be directed against S. aureus. Immobilization, either through bedrest, or occasionally, casting, may assist with pain control [50]. The long-term outcome usually is good, although anomalies of the disc space and adjacent vertebrae (often asymptomatic) are common findings on long-term follow-up (occurring in 50 of 55 patients in two series) [58,59].

INFLAMMATORY ARTHRITIS*—*A limited number of systemic inflammatory conditions can affect the spine and manifest as back pain: ankylosing spondylitis, psoriatic arthritis, the arthritis of inflammatory bowel disease, and Reiter syndrome. (See "Spondyloarthropathy in children", see "Ulcerative colitis in children and adolescents", and see "Clinical manifestations and diagnosis of Crohn's disease in children and adolescents").

The hallmark of inflammatory disease is morning stiffness. After a night's rest, the patient awakes with axial discomfort and limited mobility that improves with a hot shower or bath and usual activity, only to return after a period of prolonged inactivity ("gelling"). Severe or nocturnal pain is most unusual. Because inflammatory spondylitis often is HLA-B27-related, a family history sometimes is informative, although testing for HLA-B27 itself rarely is useful because HLA-B27 is a relatively common finding in the normal population and absent in many patients with spondylitis [60,61].

On examination, sacroiliac joint tenderness may be found, and pain may be elicited by maneuvers that stress the SI joints. These maneuvers include application of direct pressure to anterior iliac spines and the so-called "figure of four" maneuver (also referred to as the Patrick or FABER test). It consists of flexion of the hip and knee, with abduction and external rotation at the hip, so that the ankle of one leg is on top of the opposite knee (a figure four configuration) [62]. Pain with this maneuver in the absence of pain with passive hip joint motion suggests discomfort arising from the sacroiliac joint. However, the sensitivity and specificity of the physical examination are limited [63].

Sacroiliac joint changes may be observed on plain radiographs, although MRI is more sensitive for detection of early disease [64].

NEOPLASTIC*—*The most common neoplasm that presents with back pain in children is osteoid osteoma, a benign bone tumor characterized by nocturnal pain and prompt relief with NSAIDs, although these features are not invariable. Ten to 20 percent of osteoid osteomas localize to the spine, where they can cause scoliosis either by bony deformity or muscle spasm [65,66]. The diagnosis is made using plain film, bone scan, or MRI.

Other tumors that can present in the spine include leukemia, lymphoma, Ewing sarcoma, neuroblastoma, osteoblastoma, osteosarcoma, neurofibromas, and Langerhans cell histiocytosis (eosinophilic granuloma) [33,67]. (See appropriate topic reviews). A small series found that constant pain, nocturnal pain, and duration of pain less than three months were associated with tumors, although these characteristics were not specific [3].

MISCELLANEOUS*—*Additional causes of back pain in children and adolescents include sickle cell pain crisis, syringomyelia, cholecystitis, pancreatitis, chronic recurrent multifocal osteomyelitis, pyelonephritis, and chronic pain syndromes.

Chronic pain syndromes*—*Chronic pain syndromes comprise 10 to 15 percent of referrals to pediatric rheumatology practices [68-70]. The bulk of these patients are adolescents; nonorganic pain is considered a very rare occurrence before the age of seven to nine years [71]. Complaints limited to the back are uncommon.

Hallmarks of functional illness include discordance between reported symptoms and physical findings, frequent school absences, and withdrawal from social activities with peers. Pain prolonged over the course of years is a common occurrence. The parent often is inappropriately invested in the child's complaints, answering questions on his or her behalf [33]. Associations have been noted between nonorganic pain and low parental education, psychosocial stresses, pending litigation, and a parental history of chronic pain [2,72,73]. As always, however, a chronic pain syndrome remains a diagnosis of exclusion.


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New Search Contents My UpToDate CME 42.0 Help

©
Originally Posted by Azy
If you bothered to read the posts, you'd see that it was described as a place 'friendly bacteria' could take refuge during bouts of diarrhoea or similar. If that was the case then surely if you were going to build animals capable of having diarrhoea, you'd give them an appendix also.
You got me.. I don't in fact bother read crap!....
my original answer is still apropos.. are all creatures subjected to everything the 'four appendix' possessing ones are?

everything from Ecoli 0157, scombroid food poisoning, diphyllobothrium latum to Giardia lamblia and Cryptosporidium parvum etc etc? you have done a study on how these organisms along with many others that wipe the natural flora of the intestinal tract in humans and contrasted it to similar effect earth worms?
if not take a hike shmo..
I do run on zero tolerance now a days!

cheers
Reply

جوري
04-01-2008, 07:13 PM
a paper by Dr. Mullan on evolution

http://www.iscid.org/papers/Mullan_P...ell_112302.pdf

thus rendering the first an improbable conjecture and based on an a priori judgment!

If I can't accept the parts, I won't accept the whole..
cheers
Reply

Azy
04-01-2008, 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
These are esoteric causes of back pain, people can make all sorts of conjectures in science
Muscular pain and disc compression are esoteric? Did you even look at the bit that says it's nearly impossible to find someone who doesn't suffer from back pain?

Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
here is what is found to be practical and practiced and understood in every day medicine as acceptable and studied causes of back pain!
Erm yeah, spinal deformation in children is a good cause of back pain but it's not relevant in the majority of cases.
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
You got me.. I don't in fact bother read crap!....
Quite happy to dish it out though I see
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
my original answer is still apropos.. are all creatures subjected to everything the 'four appendix' possessing ones are?
Well take one case.
Horses suffer from diarrhoea, they also have no appendix and are perfectly happy for it. My intention was solely to point out the flaw iin the original post.
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
I do run on zero tolerance now a days!
and not many more brain cells.
Reply

جوري
04-01-2008, 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
Muscular pain and disc compression are esoteric? Did you even look at the bit that says it's nearly impossible to find someone who doesn't suffer from back pain?
so-called evolutionary causes are esoteric http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...tml#post922463... do you have a reading impediment?
Erm yeah, spinal deformation in children is a good cause of back pain but it's not relevant in the majority of cases.
Quite happy to dish it out though I see
Well take one case.
what is this gibberish
Horses suffer from diarrhoea, they also have no appendix and are perfectly happy for it. My intention was solely to point out the flaw iin the original post.
and not many more brain cells.
horses suffer C. difficile colitis? yeah no brain cells indeed an adequate assessment of self?

cheers
Reply

Azy
04-01-2008, 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
a paper by Dr. Mullan on evolution

http://www.iscid.org/papers/Mullan_P...ell_112302.pdf

thus rendering the first an improbable conjecture and based on an a priori judgment!

If I can't accept the parts, I won't accept the whole..
cheers
Yeah an impartial paper from a christian scientist supporter of intelligent design basically making the case that large numbers and random events preclude life from nothing.

TalkOrigins list of creationist claims. When you feel like making a creationist point, first find the relevant section and read why you're wrong before you start.
Reply

Asper
04-01-2008, 07:28 PM
:( I just wanted to solve the biological mystery was to why men have nipples, not be a beginning post in a debate! Imagine how odd it might look without them!
Reply

جوري
04-01-2008, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
Yeah an impartial paper from a christian scientist supporter of intelligent design basically making the case that large numbers and random events preclude life from nothing.

TalkOrigins list of creationist claims. When you feel like making a creationist point, first find the relevant section and read why you're wrong before you start.
you haven't in fact challenged him on any of his points which I have found quite sound and mathmatical! His confidence interval leaves very little room for error. The most any one can do when theorizing! further assumed for me what it is, I read and don't read... is it my paper can kick your paper's ass without any intelligible thought? if you have something of substance to impart do. If not the Dawkin forum is that way >>>>>>


cheers
Reply

Azy
04-01-2008, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
horses suffer C. difficile colitis?
What does the cause matter when we're simply talking about flushing the colon?
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
what is this gibberish
A half hearted response to you pasting pages of material on spinal deformity in childhood among other things.
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
so-called evolutionary causes are esoteric
The original point was that the human spine causes problems in most humans due to the configuration of muscles and the lumbar vertebrae and discs. Walking and sitting upright puts a lot of stress on the back and causes pain in most people at some time in their life. This doesn't sound like a system that was designed to do it's job.
Reply

Azy
04-01-2008, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
you haven't in fact challenged him on any of his points which I have found quite sound and mathmatical!
Probabilities of [b]randomly[b] assembling a primitive cell on Earth.

Even the title is at fault. You could work out the odds of randomly assembling a cell, but that information is totally useless since that's not how it would actually work since biochemistry is not a random process.
Reply

جوري
04-01-2008, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
What does the cause matter when we're simply talking about flushing the colon?
we are not in fact simply talking about flushing the colon. C diff. is antibiotic induced that wipes out natural flora in debilitated pts, even more so in regions where there isn't a swift action to counteract its effect... and in fact would create cataclysmic consequence!

A half hearted response to you pasting pages of material on spinal deformity in childhood among other things.
asinine articles of superficial relevance if any can only be met with the same?


The original point was that the human spine causes problems in most humans due to the configuration of muscles and the lumbar vertebrae and discs. Walking and sitting upright puts a lot of stress on the back and causes pain in most people at some time in their life. This doesn't sound like a system that was designed to do it's job.
Go back to being an ape then.. at least they shut up about their cause for complaining!


cheers
Reply

جوري
04-01-2008, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
Probabilities of [b]randomly[b] assembling a primitive cell on Earth.

Even the title is at fault. You could work out the odds of randomly assembling a cell, but that information is totally useless since that's not how it would actually work since biochemistry is not a random process.
ha? do you just want to take up web space?
what are you trying to say?
Many in fact contend that our existence is nothing but a series of random events that fell into place. I believe the papers addresses that quite adequately further he doesn't simply only address biochemistry, he writes a great deal of molecular bio and mathematics.

cheers
Reply

Azy
04-01-2008, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
we are not in fact simply talking about flushing the colon. C diff. is antibiotic induced that wipes out natural flora in debilitated pts, even more so in regions where there isn't a swift action to counteract its effect... and in fact would create cataclysmic consequence!
To save all this beating around the bush, can you explain to me why a possum would need an appendix for the reason stated but a horse or gopher doesn't? If it's purpose is to safehouse bacteria, why is it a shape that so easily becomes blocked with potentially fatal consequences?

Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
Go back to being an ape then.. at least they shut up about their cause for complaining!
Apes don't have the same pains, they don't walk upright.
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
Many in fact contend that our existence is nothing but a series of random events that fell into place. I believe the papers addresses that quite adequately further he doesn't simply only address biochemistry, he writes a great deal of molecular bio and mathematics.
We're talking about randomly generating a cell from basic components. Obviously that entails molecular biology, mathematics and biochemistry. It still doesn't change the facts that
1) He's talking about assembling a functioning cell randomly from amino acids. This wouldn't happen in anyone's wildly optimistic dreams and noone has suggested it would. You're fighting an argument that isn't there.
2) It isn't random. Amino acids don't assemble randomly.

Reading the whole thing would numb my brain but a couple of errors on glancing over it. Like you said, "If I can't accept the parts, I won't accept the whole.."

"the cell must be able to reproduce, and for that
the cell needs DNA (or at least RNA)." - see the cell membrane experiment thread for phospholipids that divide and grow spontaneously, or self-replicating peptides

"For reasons that are not yet obvious, only one of these varieties (the L-variety) is actually used in present-day life forms" - p19 on left-handed and right-handed amino acids to reduce the odds on the assumption only left handed are used in modern life. Some modern bacteria exclusively use right-handed amino acids.

See here for more abiogenesis info.
Reply

جوري
04-01-2008, 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
To save all this beating around the bush, can you explain to me why a possum would need an appendix for the reason stated but a horse or gopher doesn't? If it's purpose is to safehouse bacteria, why is it a shape that so easily becomes blocked with potentially fatal consequences?
is this pedantic syllogism? I don't especially think any reply will be satisfactory. The appendix was studied in terms of humans not animals.. who or what else possesses one, is of no consequence.. you want to deem it a useless vestigial remnant you make sure you don't show up to morning rounds in any forward institution on the account they don't inveigle moronity!

Apes don't have the same pains, they don't walk upright.
lol.. hilarious.. how would an ape complain of back pain or a headache? even in humans that is a subjective find!

We're talking about randomly generating a cell from basic components. Obviously that entails molecular biology, mathematics and biochemistry. It still doesn't change the facts that
We are not talking you are just taking up webspace on mindless drivel!


1) He's talking about assembling a functioning cell randomly from amino acids. This wouldn't happen in anyone's wildly optimistic dreams and noone has suggested it would. You're fighting an argument that isn't there.
2) It isn't random. Amino acids don't assemble randomly.
Where did the smallest functional sequence of aa come from then and what gave it the drive to carry out a particular function, for instance what wills a Chondrocyte to produce collagen, especially so in wound healing?

Reading the whole thing would numb my brain but a couple of errors on glancing over it. Like you said, "If I can't accept the parts, I won't accept the whole.."
Don't read it then, no one is holding a gun to your head, and I am not finding you particularly stimulating, I am sorry if I gave a false impression that engaging you interests me!

"the cell must be able to reproduce, and for that
the cell needs DNA (or at least RNA)." - see the cell membrane experiment thread for phospholipids that divide and grow spontaneously, or self-replicating peptides
fascinating.. so you can have phospholipids ex nihilo? let me wish those pesky micelles to form around the grease in my pot..
"For reasons that are not yet obvious, only one of these varieties (the L-variety) is actually used in present-day life forms" - p19 on left-handed and right-handed amino acids to reduce the odds on the assumption only left handed are used in modern life. Some modern bacteria exclusively use right-handed amino acids.
What does this mean?

See here for more abiogenesis info.
yeah.. we are quite familiar with atheist beliefs they are just as fantasmical as those of organized religion as dished out by pseudo intellects..

are we done here?


cheers
Reply

Azy
04-01-2008, 09:40 PM
What's depressing is you base your beliefs on an ancient piece of paper and then expect me to trot out reams of scientific evidence in order to refute things which are clearly false and even then you will still reject it.

Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
The appendix was studied in terms of humans not animals.. who or what else possesses one, is of no consequence.. you want to deem it a useless vestigial remnant you make sure you don't show up to morning rounds in any forward institution on the account they don't inveigle moronity!
When I had mine out a few months ago it was deemed by my surgeon to be just such a remnant.
The point was, in a world full of animals that is 'designed', why put one in human, apes, rabbits and possums, but not in other animals? If it's useful to them then why not the others, and if it isn't useful why is it there?
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
how would an ape complain of back pain or a headache?
Maybe I misunderstood, but what was your ape's cause for complaining?
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
Where did the smallest functional sequence of aa come from then and what gave it the drive to carry out a particular function...
fascinating.. so you can have phospholipids ex nihilo? let me wish those pesky micelles to form around the grease in my pot...
yeah.. we are quite familiar with atheist beliefs they are just as fantasmical as those of organized religion as dished out by pseudo intellects..
blah blah
Lets break this down
1) What has 'will' and 'drive' got to do with molecular biology. Molecules just act on each other according to their physical parameters. You're assigning some kind of anthropomorphic properties to inanimate objects.

2) You don't need RNA to replicate something, simple as that. Scoff if it makes you feel safer in your beliefs.

3) Mullan is not telling the truth about polarised amino acids. There are two types, left-handed and right-handed. You can use one or the other but not a mixture in a sequence. Mullan states all living things use left-handed aa but this is not true as some bacteria use right-handed. He does this to make the probabilities seem more remote.

4) Atheist beliefs? Being an atheist has nothing to do with abiogenesis. It might limit the possibility of the Ibrahimic garden of eden scenario, but there are an infinite number of alternate possibilities when we're talking about deities. It's just arrogant to talk of atheism just because this doesn't fit in with your version of god.
Read through that website and point out where 'beliefs' comes into it. Challenge the points as you would have me do. I doubt I'll see that happen.
Reply

Dr.Trax
04-01-2008, 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada

9. Body hair
No doubt we were once hairier. Up until about 3 million years ago, we were covered with body hair. But by the time Homo erectus arrived, the ability to sweat meant we could shed our woolly ways.
?
FALSE!


Your Lord said to the angels, "I am going to create a human being out of clay." (Qur'an, 38:71)
Another error in evolutionary creation stems from the faulty interpretation of the above verse. Evolutionists claim that the underlined phrase above indicates a slow creation over time. However, the original Arabic makes it clear that this is a purely subjective view and entirely contradictory:
"inni khaliqun basharan min tinin" means "I am He Who created a human being out of clay."
The verse says nothing like "I am creating." In fact, the verse continues, "When I have formed him and breathed My Spirit into him, fall down in prostration to him!" It is clear from this that the verb create here takes place in a single instant.
Indeed, no Qur'anic scholar translates it as "I am creating." For instance, a Turkish Muslim scholar, Suleyman Ates's commentary reads:

[center]The Originator of the heavens and earth. When He decides on something, He just says to it, " Be" and it is.
(Qur'an, 2:117)


According to such peoples' interpretations, the underlined expression refers to a process, in this case an evolutionary process. Yet it does not actually refer to such a thing at all.
Reply

Azy
04-01-2008, 10:05 PM
If you're going to use Qur'anic passages as evidence against this then we might as well all pack up and go home. Besides I'm missing you on the other thread and you never answered my questions.
Reply

جوري
04-01-2008, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
What's depressing is you base your beliefs on an ancient piece of paper and then expect me to trot out reams of scientific evidence in order to refute things which are clearly false and even then you will still reject it.
I have no expectations from you whatsoever, in fact I don't even invite such a talk with your sort. My original reply was to the OP.. but couldn't help but be amused by the imbecility along the way! You need to tweak your definition of 'evidence' in science nothing is 100% surely even you must have heard of the null hypothesis?
When I had mine out a few months ago it was deemed by my surgeon to be just such a remnant.
Yesterday I scrubbed in on an 8hr surgery, for AICD, SVC syndrome, lung ca endoscopy, and lower lobectomy, cauterized, transfused 1 units PRBC .. after the lobectomy the pt. could do just fine with what is left of the lung, (should have been there, was taken out by latest techniques using robotics.. my attending an Iranian Muslim doctor =) and named one of the top 125 docs for year 2008) the lobe that came out was not deemed a remnant in spite of its uselesness . Whatever you and your 'surgeon' agree on otherwise is really utterly inconsequential to me!

The point was, in a world full of animals that is 'designed', why put one in human, apes, rabbits and possums, but not in other animals? If it's useful to them then why not the others, and if it isn't useful why is it there?
Subscribe to some science magazine, I am sure it will keep you on top of your troubling questions---This is for the last time, as I so despise repeating myself!

Maybe I misunderstood, but what was your ape's cause for complaining?
subsclerosing panencephalitis? it is a shame for you to have 'evolved' so far and have it leave positively no impact on your frontal lobes!

Lets break this down
1) What has 'will' and 'drive' got to do with molecular biology. Molecules just act on each other according to their physical parameters. You're assigning some kind of anthropomorphic properties to inanimate objects.
No, I have not-- I don't think you understand how science works, therein lies the problem, further your replies have no relevance to what preceded, it is really very annoying!

2) You don't need RNA to replicate something, simple as that. Scoff if it makes you feel safer in your beliefs.
I love your clangorous need for humbug and quasi endeavors at sounding clever :smile:!

3) Mullan is not telling the truth about polarised amino acids. There are two types, left-handed and right-handed. You can use one or the other but not a mixture in a sequence. Mullan states all living things use left-handed aa but this is not true as some bacteria use right-handed. He does this to make the probabilities seem more remote.
Mullan discusses the probability of randomly assembling cells using the smallest number of aa-- improbable even for a virus (viruses) by the way aren't deemed living organisms, rather in need for a host to adhere, uncoat and replicate, he works that with the time it took for the first organism to have surfaced on this earth which took an approximate 1.1 billion yrs, averaged in circumstance to make living conditions favorable on this earth, and added in various number of mutations to enable us this sort of 'speciation' of course that is a very superficial of what he has actually demonstrated, but I figured I would use terms that even you can understand?

4) Atheist beliefs? Being an atheist has nothing to do with abiogenesis. It might limit the possibility of the Ibrahimic garden of eden scenario, but there are an infinite number of alternate possibilities when we're talking about deities. It's just arrogant to talk of atheism just because this doesn't fit in with your version of god.
yuppers, we have seen them all, from the dude who wanted to divide the zero (zen of zero) look him up, to FSM, spaghetti monsters to your sort-- I assure you, the day one of you comes with something scintillating will be when a pig sprouts wings and flies... but I figure the lot of you are as smart as you are educated, and mostly your education comes from turpitude!
Read through that website and point out where 'beliefs' comes into it. Challenge the points as you would have me do. I doubt I'll see that happen.
yawn!
Reply

جوري
04-01-2008, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
If you're going to use Qur'anic passages as evidence against this then we might as well all pack up and go home. Besides I'm missing you on the other thread and you never answered my questions.
Is your name Hamada? I see him quoting for another Muslim member-- & indeed pretty pls pack up and crawl back from whence you came...

and lastly.. I find such great merriment in your anticipations that folks would confer dignity or sense upon your non-questions... :lol:


with that, I believe this thread has reached the end of its value..
Br. Woody if you'd do the honors :D


:w:
Reply

Science101
04-01-2008, 10:57 PM
Eve,

Could you please explain why your avatar says "Account Disabled On Request" when it is obvious that it was not disabled?

And I must add that I am asking this because I have seen something like that before. Just want to see if you are doing the same thing for the same reason.
Reply

NoName55
04-01-2008, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
If you're going to use Qur'anic passages as evidence against this then we might as well all pack up and go home. Besides I'm missing you on the other thread and you never answered my questions.
Please do! the sooner your preachy type goes away the quicker my type comes back to answer questions related to Islam from genuinely curious.
Reply

جوري
04-01-2008, 11:08 PM
akhi no nammmmmmmmme... I am so happy to see you here.. al7mdlilah
Baraka Allah feek

:w:
Reply

جوري
04-01-2008, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by Science101
Eve,

Could you please explain why your avatar says "Account Disabled On Request" when it is obvious that it was not disabled?

And I must add that I am asking this because I have seen something like that before. Just want to see if you are doing the same thing for the same reason.
Greetings sci.
I have no idea. I had a beautiful avi that br. Li fixed for me, and once I disabled my account it was gone, to be honest I don't recall 'un-disabling' my account, I just found out that I am an active member when I received a PM from a dear member here...

cheers
Reply

Science101
04-01-2008, 11:45 PM
Thanks for clearing that up!

I was at first under the impression that you were banned from the forum. Then I started wondering how you could still post. Then I was wondering if you were protesting something.

Don't mind my head full of questions! Now that I know, I have other questions driving me crazy (not forum related) but at least there is one less on my mind.
Reply

جوري
04-02-2008, 12:07 AM
I had requested my account be suspended indefinity --
anyhow, do unburden yourself of your mind's vacillations if you want--we have a wonderful cyber counseling session here and people always offer friendly advise =)

cheers
Reply

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