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ajazz
04-02-2008, 11:31 AM
Assalamualikum



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------
04-02-2008, 11:53 AM
:salamext:

Whoa...SUBHAAN ALLAAH!!! That was so kool!!
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Beblessed
04-02-2008, 02:13 PM
Asalaamu alaikum
SUBHANALLAAH .. Allahu Akbar
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mutlib
04-12-2008, 02:24 PM
its a must see
SubanAllah
u made my day
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barney
04-14-2008, 04:06 AM
Now thats the sort of stuff an agnostic can understand!
Thanks for the link, amazing stuff.

I have often wondered at the skills of the ancients aligning the stones of stonehenge and the pyramids of Egypt being mathmatically perfect.
How they used to combine incredible astronomical calculations with the inability to draw in perspective or putting pictures of ships with blokes 40 feet tall crewing them.

It's this sort of stuff that makes you, under the right circumstances, become a theist!

(Better add an edit here, I for this occassion don not have my Mr Sarcasm hat on, i genuninely find it intriguing)
Reply

Makky
04-14-2008, 05:58 AM
UP UP

Allahu akbaar
Reply

Huma*
04-14-2008, 10:44 AM
:salamext:

WOW gr8, Subhanallah!! :)
Reply

Snowflake
04-14-2008, 11:09 AM
SubhanAllah!

Allahu Akbar!

gotto spread this around
Reply

johan
04-14-2008, 02:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
...
I have often wondered at the skills of the ancients aligning the stones of stonehenge and the pyramids of Egypt being mathmatically perfect.
How they used to combine incredible astronomical calculations with the inability to draw in perspective or putting pictures of ships with blokes 40 feet tall crewing them.
...
Your point would probably be valid if Muhammad SAW was literate.

Sub7anallah.
Reply

Azy
04-14-2008, 03:55 PM
So the letter he wrote in reply to Musaylima the false prophet was written by whom?
Reply

crayon
04-14-2008, 04:05 PM
I'm not sure what letter you're referring to, but if the prophet peace be upon him ever did send a letter to anyone, could it not have been dictated?^o)

And I'm trying to watch the video but it won't load!
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Huma*
04-14-2008, 04:07 PM
:salamext:

Try here...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a3Zv9MDxpHw
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crayon
04-14-2008, 04:11 PM
That's the link I'm using sis. The little circle thing in the middle, the one that shows the video is loading, just keeps turning and turning.. it doesn't start playing.
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Huma*
04-14-2008, 04:16 PM
:salamext:

Its working fine with me..
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AntiKarateKid
04-14-2008, 04:24 PM
Azy: See the thread about the Prophet (SAW) being literate or not. In one case, it was witnessed that the Prophet(SAW) dictated a letter to a Christian slave who wrote it. This case is no different. There is no evidence of the Prophet(SAW) being able to read or write, heck it was a part of the Quran. People are not stupid, if they saw the Prophet(SAW) saying that he could neither read nor write, and he was, then they would have inquired extensively bout that.
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barney
04-14-2008, 06:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
I'm not sure what letter you're referring to, but if the prophet peace be upon him ever did send a letter to anyone, could it not have been dictated?^o)

And I'm trying to watch the video but it won't load!
And a mathmatical or astrological genius could have dictated the direction of mecca to him too. It's still fairly impressive.
Shakes my unbeleif without a doubt.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-14-2008, 06:48 PM
Interesting.
Some miracles of Islam are actually impressive!:)
Reply

Makky
04-14-2008, 08:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
And a mathmatical or astrological genius could have dictated the direction of mecca to him too. It's still fairly impressive.
Shakes my unbeleif without a doubt.
Barney!
the prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) was uneducated. most Arabs in his time were illiterate.

their knowledge about Mathematics and things like astronomy and caculations nearly equals zero

Don't fool yourself ,, uncover your eyes

I'm reminding you with this verse from Quran:

(And We shall turn their hearts and their eyes away (from guidance), as they refused to believe therein for the first time, and We shall leave them in their trespass to wander blind) alananm-verse110

please don't lose chances
Reply

Azy
04-15-2008, 11:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Azy: See the thread about the Prophet (SAW) being literate or not. In one case, it was witnessed that the Prophet(SAW) dictated a letter to a Christian slave who wrote it. This case is no different. There is no evidence of the Prophet(SAW) being able to read or write, heck it was a part of the Quran. People are not stupid, if they saw the Prophet(SAW) saying that he could neither read nor write, and he was, then they would have inquired extensively bout that.
Volume 3, Book 49, Number 863:

Narrated Al-Bara:

When the Prophet intended to perform 'Umra in the month of Dhul-Qada, the people of Mecca did not let him enter Mecca till he settled the matter with them by promising to stay in it for three days only. When the document of treaty was written, the following was mentioned: 'These are the terms on which Muhammad, Allah's Apostle agreed (to make peace).' They said, "We will not agree to this, for if we believed that you are Allah's Apostle we would not prevent you, but you are Muhammad bin 'Abdullah." The Prophet said, "I am Allah's Apostle and also Muhammad bin 'Abdullah." Then he said to 'Ali, "Rub off (the words) 'Allah's Apostle' ", but 'Ali said, "No, by Allah, I will never rub off your name." So, Allah's Apostle took the document and wrote, 'This is what Muhammad bin 'Abdullah has agreed upon: No arms will be brought into Mecca except in their cases, and nobody from the people of Mecca will be allowed to go with him (i.e. the Prophet ) even if he wished to follow him and he (the Prophet ) will not prevent any of his companions from staying in Mecca if the latter wants to stay.' When the Prophet entered Mecca and the time limit passed, the Meccans went to 'Ali and said, "Tell your Friend (i.e. the Prophet ) to go out, as the period (agreed to) has passed." So, the Prophet went out of Mecca....
Reply

ajazz
04-15-2008, 09:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
Volume 3, Book 49, Number 863:

Narrated Al-Bara:

When the Prophet intended to perform 'Umra in the month of Dhul-Qada, the people of Mecca did not let him enter Mecca till he settled the matter with them by promising to stay in it for three days only. When the document of treaty was written, the following was mentioned: 'These are the terms on which Muhammad, Allah's Apostle agreed (to make peace).' They said, "We will not agree to this, for if we believed that you are Allah's Apostle we would not prevent you, but you are Muhammad bin 'Abdullah." The Prophet said, "I am Allah's Apostle and also Muhammad bin 'Abdullah." Then he said to 'Ali, "Rub off (the words) 'Allah's Apostle' ", but 'Ali said, "No, by Allah, I will never rub off your name." So, Allah's Apostle took the document and wrote, 'This is what Muhammad bin 'Abdullah has agreed upon: No arms will be brought into Mecca except in their cases, and nobody from the people of Mecca will be allowed to go with him (i.e. the Prophet ) even if he wished to follow him and he (the Prophet ) will not prevent any of his companions from staying in Mecca if the latter wants to stay.' When the Prophet entered Mecca and the time limit passed, the Meccans went to 'Ali and said, "Tell your Friend (i.e. the Prophet ) to go out, as the period (agreed to) has passed." So, the Prophet went out of Mecca....

Assalamualikum
Peace and blessing for all


Let’s see first the meaning of the word unlettered

Not adept at reading and writing; deficient in the knowledge that can be acquired from books.

The adjective unlettered has 2 meanings:

Meaning #1: having little acquaintance with writing (notice the word little)

Meaning #2: lacking general education or knowledge

http://www.answers.com/unlettered&r=67


Unlettered does not mean that one is not able scribble few sentences or read few words
Or is a complete dumb person.

Masha Allah the prophet was very intelligent but he did not have any formal education

Also you must know difference between the holy Quran and Hadiths
The holy Quran is 100% error free, where as many hadiths were rejected because they were found to be unreliable
also any hadith that goes against the holy Quran needs to be rejected and the holy Quran does say the prophet was unlettered

I’m not saying that this hadith is not authentic
(I'm not qualified person or a scholar to do so)

Many times same incidence is reported differently by different narrators

Now let’s analyze the hadith you quote

1 “When the document of treaty was written, the following was mentioned”

The document was already written and it does not say that prophet wrote it

2 " Then he said to 'Ali, "Rub off (the words) 'Allah's Apostle' "
“but 'Ali said, "No, by Allah, I will never rub off your name."


All the terms were already written, only objection was to the words ‘Allah’s Apostle'

There was no need to write any thing only to rub out or cross out the words
‘Allah’s Apostle'



Now it is quite possible the narrator did not see the prophet actually write he may be standing away from him at that time and the holy prophet may have just rubbed out or crossed out the words simply because there was no need to write anything but to the narrator it must have looked like the prophet was writing something.


The evidence that you stated is very poor, out of thousands of hadiths you could only quote one, that to could be explained easily
Surely if the prophet(s) was well read and educated there must be some incidence reported which definitely indicate it?


Also you have failed to quote or may be deliberately choose to ignore the hadith just before it.

The hadiths is

Volume 3, Book 49, Number 862


Narrated Al-Bara bin 'Azib:

When Allah's Apostle concluded a peace treaty with the people of Hudaibiya, Ali bin Abu Talib wrote the document and he mentioned in it, "Muhammad, Allah's Apostle ." The pagans said, "Don't write: 'Muhammad, Allah's Apostle', for if you were an apostle we would not fight with you." Allah's Apostle asked Ali to rub it out, but Ali said, "I will not be the person to rub it out." Allah's Apostle rubbed it out and made peace with them on the condition that the Prophet and his companions would enter Mecca and stay there for three days, and that they would enter with their weapons in cases.

http://tinyurl.com/4b2c9q


Rubbed out!
Rubbed out!
Rubbed out!

Allah knows best
Reply

Fishman
04-15-2008, 09:33 PM
:sl:
I went on Google Earth myself and checked it. If you draw a line The Great Mosque in Sana to the Kaaba, the line does indeed pass right through the base on the mountain. However, the Qibla on the Great Mosque of Sana is slightly off, by prehaps about five degrees or so.
:w:
Reply

AntiKarateKid
04-15-2008, 10:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ajazz
Assalamualikum
Peace and blessing for all


Let’s see first the meaning of the word unlettered

Not adept at reading and writing; deficient in the knowledge that can be acquired from books.

The adjective unlettered has 2 meanings:

Meaning #1: having little acquaintance with writing (notice the word little)

Meaning #2: lacking general education or knowledge

http://www.answers.com/unlettered&r=67


Unlettered does not mean that one is not able scribble few sentences or read few words
Or is a complete dumb person.

Masha Allah the prophet was very intelligent but he did not have any formal education

Also you must know difference between the holy Quran and Hadiths
The holy Quran is 100% error free, where as many hadiths were rejected because they were found to be unreliable
also any hadith that goes against the holy Quran needs to be rejected and the holy Quran does say the prophet was unlettered

I’m not saying that this hadith is not authentic

Many times same incidence is reported differently by different narrators

Now let’s analyze the hadith you quote

1 “When the document of treaty was written, the following was mentioned”

The document was already written and it does not say that prophet wrote it

2 " Then he said to 'Ali, "Rub off (the words) 'Allah's Apostle' "
“but 'Ali said, "No, by Allah, I will never rub off your name."


All the terms were already written, only objection was to the words ‘Allah’s Apostle'

There was no need to write any thing only to rub out or cross out the words
‘Allah’s Apostle'



Now it is quite possible the narrator did not see the prophet actually write he may be standing away from him at that time and the holy prophet may have just rubbed out or crossed out the words simply because there was no need to write anything but to the narrator it must have looked like the prophet was writing something.


The evidence that you stated is very poor, out of thousands of hadiths you could only quote one, that to could be explained easily
Surely if the prophet(s) was well read and educated there must be some incidence reported which definitely indicate it?


Also you have failed to quote or may be deliberately choose to ignore the hadith just before it.

The hadiths is

Volume 3, Book 49, Number 862


Narrated Al-Bara bin 'Azib:

When Allah's Apostle concluded a peace treaty with the people of Hudaibiya, Ali bin Abu Talib wrote the document and he mentioned in it, "Muhammad, Allah's Apostle ." The pagans said, "Don't write: 'Muhammad, Allah's Apostle', for if you were an apostle we would not fight with you." Allah's Apostle asked Ali to rub it out, but Ali said, "I will not be the person to rub it out." Allah's Apostle rubbed it out and made peace with them on the condition that the Prophet and his companions would enter Mecca and stay there for three days, and that they would enter with their weapons in cases.

http://tinyurl.com/4b2c9q


Rubbed out!
Rubbed out!
Rubbed out!
Wow, nice refutation brother. Rep well deserved.
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Azy
04-15-2008, 10:25 PM
AntiKarateKid, how would you call that a refutation? Does the hadith say 'wrote' or not?

format_quote Originally Posted by ajazz
There was no need to write any thing only to rub out or cross out the words ‘Allah’s Apostle'

The evidence that you stated is very poor, out of thousands of hadiths you could only quote one, that to could be explained easily
Surely if the prophet(s) was well read and educated there must be some incidence reported which definitely indicate it?
You can use all the colourful text and highlight 'rub out' as much as you want, but it clearly says that they read the title and were displeased.
Ali was asked to rub out part of it, but he wouldn't so the Prophet took the document from him and finished it himself.

You can accuse me of being selective, but so are you and I'm not the one ignoring something that is in plain view.

It's all very well for you to say that some hadiths might be unreliable when it suits your point of view.
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Makky
04-15-2008, 10:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
AntiKarateKid, how would you call that a refutation? Does the hadith say 'wrote' or not?


You can use all the colourful text and highlight 'rub out' as much as you want, but it clearly says that they read the title and were displeased.
Ali was asked to rub out part of it, but he wouldn't so the Prophet took the document from him and finished it himself.

You can accuse me of being selective, but so are you and I'm not the one ignoring something that is in plain view.

It's all very well for you to say that some hadiths might be unreliable when it suits your point of view.
Its better for you to stop writting in this thread...the prophet is known even 0amongst Athiests as the illiterate prophet.. there is no doubt in this fact..even if he can read and write...it would still be a miracle...

I'm civil engineer..I know and i can prove what i'm going to say : All the mosques even those who were built in this last ten years with the AID of high technology instruments , the engineers just direct the mosque towards the city of makkah not the haram it self, you can try it yourself by google earth , choose any mosque and draw a striaght line perpendicular to the mosque , you will find the line pathing through makkah but not the accuracy of pathing through the kabba itself...
I know some mosques in Egypt that were built with deviation of 1 or 2 degrees , this deviations are discovered recently
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AntiKarateKid
04-16-2008, 01:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Interesting.
Some miracles of Islam are actually impressive!:)
Ahem. Trust me the other ones you dismiss are just as impressive to all Muslims. You obviously need a straight line drawn infront of you to baby you along the way in some. :)
Reply

AntiKarateKid
04-16-2008, 01:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
AntiKarateKid, how would you call that a refutation? Does the hadith say 'wrote' or not?


You can use all the colourful text and highlight 'rub out' as much as you want, but it clearly says that they read the title and were displeased.
Ali was asked to rub out part of it, but he wouldn't so the Prophet took the document from him and finished it himself.

You can accuse me of being selective, but so are you and I'm not the one ignoring something that is in plain view.

It's all very well for you to say that some hadiths might be unreliable when it suits your point of view.
:? You simply just want to belive that he could write. You have not responded to my statement about his contemporaries either. After 1400 of Muslims and non muslims alike acknowledging that he was in fact illiterate. Here comes super smart AZY who no doubt is a great scholar of hadith and Quran than any who came before him, trying to claim what even the Prophets contemporaries couldnt claim. Amazing.:thumbs_up

Just in case you want to cast away your foolish claims. http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503546466
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Abdul-Raouf
04-16-2008, 01:53 PM
alahamdulillah...
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-16-2008, 06:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Ahem. Trust me the other ones you dismiss are just as impressive to all Muslims. You obviously need a straight line drawn infront of you to baby you along the way in some. :)
I like mathematical miracles, word repetion and that kind of stuff. And some prophecies are cool too! On the other hand, most verses that muslims claim to be scientifically accurate, are rubbish, that is, not miraculous or anything.
Reply

- Qatada -
04-16-2008, 06:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
Volume 3, Book 49, Number 863:

Narrated Al-Bara:

When the Prophet intended to perform 'Umra in the month of Dhul-Qada, the people of Mecca did not let him enter Mecca till he settled the matter with them by promising to stay in it for three days only. When the document of treaty was written, the following was mentioned: 'These are the terms on which Muhammad, Allah's Apostle agreed (to make peace).' They said, "We will not agree to this, for if we believed that you are Allah's Apostle we would not prevent you, but you are Muhammad bin 'Abdullah." The Prophet said, "I am Allah's Apostle and also Muhammad bin 'Abdullah." Then he said to 'Ali, "Rub off (the words) 'Allah's Apostle' ", but 'Ali said, "No, by Allah, I will never rub off your name." So, Allah's Apostle took the document and wrote, 'This is what Muhammad bin 'Abdullah has agreed upon: No arms will be brought into Mecca except in their cases, and nobody from the people of Mecca will be allowed to go with him (i.e. the Prophet ) even if he wished to follow him and he (the Prophet ) will not prevent any of his companions from staying in Mecca if the latter wants to stay.' When the Prophet entered Mecca and the time limit passed, the Meccans went to 'Ali and said, "Tell your Friend (i.e. the Prophet ) to go out, as the period (agreed to) has passed." So, the Prophet went out of Mecca....

1) you havn't quoted a source, the volume and book number of what?


2) It's likely to be a mistake in the translation of text, since it's clear that he did not write (peace be upon him), and everyone knew this. Infact, if this statement was so true - you would be the first person in history to 'disprove Islam' by supposedly 'refuting the Qur'an' (since it's stated that he is the unlettered Prophet) when even the contemporaries of Allah's Messenger were unable to do so, and they knew he was illiterate.

Rather, Suhail ibn 'Amr was also involved in the treaty and he was a nobleman from Quraysh, and since the Messenger of Allah clearly said that he would agree with the conditions [even if they were a disadvantage for the Muslims temporarily] - he would accept. So we understand from other narrations that the Prophet asked Ali ibn Abi Talib for where it says 'Messenger of Allah / Rasool Allaah' - then he removed it with his own finger, and asked him (Ali) to write up the remainder of the treaty.



I can't find the arabic of the text yet, if i am able - i will try to quote insha Allah. And Allah knows best.




Peace.
Reply

AntiKarateKid
04-16-2008, 08:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I like mathematical miracles, word repetion and that kind of stuff. And some prophecies are cool too! On the other hand, most verses that muslims claim to be scientifically accurate, are rubbish, that is, not miraculous or anything.
Listen man, you are only stating some "taste" you have in miracles. Muslims dont "claim" those verses to be accurate. They are. It has been repeatedly shown and argued by scientists ( who have converted on it btw). Your opinion is your business, but from what you have said right now, your dismissal/ preference for a type of miracle as opposed to another is utterly subjective in it's nature. ALso the purpose of these miracles is to convince the unbelievers, so whether or not you like it may actually be beside the point. You accept what suits your fancy and does not break your agnostic bubble I suppose.
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Whatsthepoint
04-16-2008, 08:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Listen man, you are only stating some "taste" you have in miracles. Muslims dont "claim" those verses to be accurate. They are. It has been repeatedly shown and argued by scientists ( who have converted on it btw). Your opinion is your business, but from what you have said right now, your dismissal/ preference for a type of miracle as opposed to another is utterly subjective in it's nature. ALso the purpose of these miracles is to convince the unbelievers, so whether or not you like it may actually be beside the point. You accept what suits your fancy and does not break your agnostic bubble I suppose.
...
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barney
04-16-2008, 11:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I went on Google Earth myself and checked it. If you draw a line The Great Mosque in Sana to the Kaaba, the line does indeed pass right through the base on the mountain. However, the Qibla on the Great Mosque of Sana is slightly off, by prehaps about five degrees or so.
:w:
Bah, It's no good. Now I simply have to go check it myself.:D
Reply

rose17
04-17-2008, 01:36 AM
Assalamualeikum
subhanallah
Reply

jmasucci
04-17-2008, 01:51 AM
Great video. I double checked it myself since I am always so skeptical but this is great. All should see this video.
Reply

Abdul-Raouf
04-17-2008, 02:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
Bah, It's no good. Now I simply have to go check it myself.:D


For ur reference...C here....

I have got the pic from the latest..version of Google Earth...

checked it today..

It is awsome..ALHAMDULILLAH....

u can see the line passing by..
that TV station..located at the top of Mountain Deyn....



ALHAMDULILLAH....

The same line..here...>>
(The end points of the line connect Masjid Al Haraam..and the great mosque of Sanaa..)






Thanks to.. Google Earth.......... :)

ALHAMDULILLAH
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
04-17-2008, 03:13 AM
:sl:

MashaAllah, thats simply amazing. SubhanAllah! :)

:w:
Reply

- Qatada -
04-17-2008, 12:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
Volume 3, Book 49, Number 863:

Narrated Al-Bara:

When the Prophet intended to perform 'Umra in the month of Dhul-Qada, the people of Mecca did not let him enter Mecca till he settled the matter with them by promising to stay in it for three days only. When the document of treaty was written, the following was mentioned: 'These are the terms on which Muhammad, Allah's Apostle agreed (to make peace).' They said, "We will not agree to this, for if we believed that you are Allah's Apostle we would not prevent you, but you are Muhammad bin 'Abdullah." The Prophet said, "I am Allah's Apostle and also Muhammad bin 'Abdullah." Then he said to 'Ali, "Rub off (the words) 'Allah's Apostle' ", but 'Ali said, "No, by Allah, I will never rub off your name." So, Allah's Apostle took the document and wrote, 'This is what Muhammad bin 'Abdullah has agreed upon: No arms will be brought into Mecca except in their cases, and nobody from the people of Mecca will be allowed to go with him (i.e. the Prophet ) even if he wished to follow him and he (the Prophet ) will not prevent any of his companions from staying in Mecca if the latter wants to stay.' When the Prophet entered Mecca and the time limit passed, the Meccans went to 'Ali and said, "Tell your Friend (i.e. the Prophet ) to go out, as the period (agreed to) has passed." So, the Prophet went out of Mecca....


Returning to Azzy's quoted narration:


I'll quote brother Ansar [it clarifies what i said earlier]:

Yes, you've quoted the abridged version of the hadith. The full version states that Ali refused to erase the name so he took the paper from him, asked where it was on the paper and then erased it (Sahih Muslim 1783). Then he continued to dicate. The wording in arabic does not necessitate the actual writing by an individual as it is also used for 'decree', 'dictate', and 'prescribe'. Even in the english language, if a person of status says, "I will write to you" it doesn't necessarily mean they will pick up a pen and write themselves - they may dictate the letter addressed from themselves. So the phrase is So Allah's Apostle took the document [from Ali, and erased the words in question] and dictated..., and this is in light of the other narrations which provide a more definite description of the incident in question.

Like I've said before, this isn't anything new. Non-muslims just pick the isolated narration that appears to support their view without doing the background research, examining the text or similar narrations. The conclusive evidence establishes that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh could not read or write.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...tml#post303605
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Muezzin
04-17-2008, 12:17 PM
Why all the discussion about the Prophet (SAW)'s illiteracy/literacy? I'm sure everyone can read the title of the thread and deduce its topic.
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Azy
04-17-2008, 02:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Why all the discussion about the Prophet (SAW)'s illiteracy/literacy? I'm sure everyone can read the title of the thread and deduce its topic.
It started as a pondering on ancient people's ability to create geometrically accurate forms using the knowledge of maths they had at the time.

I suppose it's not a big issue here, the Romans were building roads of 40+ miles in a straight line over varying terrain using a handful of sticks as guides.

Anyone who called me up on my reasoning and is interested in a response, I'll post it in the existing literacy thread.
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barney
04-17-2008, 09:50 PM
I put this in front of a bunch of hardline atheists.
A lot of people thought it was pretty cool.

They did bring up the Astrolabe, a fine middle eastern invention, which had been around 200 years when the Prophet was preaching, and also Roman Roads which run for hundreds of miles plumb straight.

All in all, It's certainly food for thought.

Anyone else got any miracles going? I'd like to take a look at some. :)
Reply

- Qatada -
04-17-2008, 10:38 PM
They did bring up the Astrolabe, a fine middle eastern invention, which had been around 200 years when the Prophet was preaching, and also Roman Roads which run for hundreds of miles plumb straight.

i think his (peace be upon him)'s companions would inform us that if he had one, and i even wonder where he would get one from in the first place. The arabs could barely afford food, but they could pay for an astrolabe, and not even narrate about it? I don't think so.
Reply

barney
04-17-2008, 11:09 PM
2nd AH is 623 AD, the year of Badar.
Muslim numbers were very low before Badar and increased massivly following it.
I think it's probable that Prior to Badar they hadnt much money at all. An astrolabe would have been a waste of cash as would employing someone with one.
After Badar, if there was one in the booty, then problem solved. Simply need someone who can operate it effectively.
To point your far off Mosque's in the right direction, i Imagine was fairly important to the early muslims. With a bit of money and the neccessery drive to do it, It's not impossible.

Perhaps unlikely. Mayby. Dunno.

I need to have a think about what the chances are. Taking into account the possibility of selective revisonism once they had figured out the maths and considering the implications that, if it's true that this was divine revelations, that would make Mohammed an actual prophet. Which has some incredible implications for me personally.
Reply

AntiKarateKid
04-28-2008, 10:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I went on Google Earth myself and checked it. If you draw a line The Great Mosque in Sana to the Kaaba, the line does indeed pass right through the base on the mountain. However, the Qibla on the Great Mosque of Sana is slightly off, by prehaps about five degrees or so.
:w:
Can anyone else confirm or verify this?
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barney
04-28-2008, 11:08 PM
I had a crack, but im hopeless at drawing lines from point to point.
The line on the vid shows it passing through the three landmarks with a good deal of accuracy.
In 2AH, I think they had the technology to produce such measurements with fair accuracy. My minds open on this one, it's certainly the closest possible thing iv'e seen to divine intervention.
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Makky
04-28-2008, 11:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Can anyone else confirm or verify this?
i did it myself.. the most magnificent thing in my trails with google earth is that i checked randamly a mosque which was build few years ago (surly with the aid of high technology surveying instrunments ) the accuracy can't be compared to the accuracy of what the prophet has said..because the perpindicular line i made didn't even reach makka's boundries..it passed miles away from makka itself..
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Makky
04-28-2008, 11:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
I had a crack, but im hopeless at drawing lines from point to point.
The line on the vid shows it passing through the three landmarks with a good deal of accuracy.
In 2AH, I think they had the technology to produce such measurements with fair accuracy. My minds open on this one, it's certainly the closest possible thing iv'e seen to divine intervention.
Sorry! what do you mean by divine intervention?
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barney
04-28-2008, 11:25 PM
An actual deity divinely intervening and contacting someone on earth with a message.
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AntiKarateKid
04-28-2008, 11:47 PM
41:53) Soon shall We show them Our Signs on the horizons and in their own
beings until it becomes clear to them that it is the Truth. *70 Is it not enough that your Lord is a witness over everything?
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Abdul-Raouf
04-29-2008, 02:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Can anyone else confirm or verify this?

hey bro... i verified it...Its amazing..

check my post >


http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...tml#post928590
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