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Uthman
04-04-2008, 04:19 PM
Comedian and writer Ben Elton has said the BBC is too "scared" to broadcast jokes about Muslims for fear of provoking radical Islamists.

Elton, in an interview with Christian magazine Third Way, added that the broadcaster would "let vicar gags pass but would not let imam gags pass".

He said fear rather than "moral sensibilities" fuelled decisions about what material was appropriate.

A BBC spokeswoman said: "No subject is off limits for BBC comedy."

"The treatment should not cause harm or offence as defined by the BBC's Editorial Guidelines or breach other BBC Guidelines. There is no evidence that the BBC is afraid to tackle difficult subjects," she added.

Muhammad joke


Elton told the magazine how he had sat on a panel and suggested a joke involving Mohammed, which was rejected.

"I wanted to use the phrase 'Muhammad came to the mountain' and everybody said, 'Oh, don't! Just don't! Don't go there!'

"It was nothing to do with Islam, I was merely referring to the old proverb, 'If the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad must go to the mountain.' And people said, 'Let's just not!'"

The comedy writer, whose credits include Blackadder and The Thin Blue Line, added the Muslims would not want to be excluded from comedy.

"I'm quite certain that the average Muslim does not want everybody going around thinking,'We can't mention you. We've just got to pretend you don't exist because we're scared that somebody who claims to represent you will threaten to kill us.'"

The 48-year-old writer of Queen musical We Will Rock You, professed to being an atheist, but said he did occasionally go to church and sent his children to Church of England schools.

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Keltoi
04-05-2008, 09:40 PM
Well, I think its obvious why some people might feel intimidated at the prospect of airing anything that might lead to somebody getting hurt or killed. Although if Denmark is any indication, that isn't going to stop those who feel driven to do so.
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-05-2008, 10:20 PM
Allahu Akbar!

indeed, do NOT make a mockery out of islaaM!
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barney
04-05-2008, 10:28 PM
It does show that the intimidation works.
As long as it works, it will be kept up.
Citing Spain as an example.
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Pk_#2
04-05-2008, 10:29 PM
Great,

I'm glad people are scared of us, why should it be 'alright' to take the mik outta Islaam, No one cares about their religion no more, that's why it's alright to say things about other religions, no one gives a crap! But we care,

Gonna defend Islaam all the way,

My mom (Niqaabi) says shes glad that people cross the road when they see her, she hated it when they used to brush against her body even with so much space on the streets! Loq
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barney
04-05-2008, 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by Happy
Great,

I'm glad people are scared of us, why should it be 'alright' to take the mik outta Islaam, No one cares about their religion no more, that's why it's alright to say things about other religions, no one gives a crap! But we care,

Gonna defend Islaam all the way,

My mom (Niqaabi) says shes glad that people cross the road when they see her, she hated it when they used to brush against her body even with so much space on the streets! Loq
Is violence going to stop it?
Sure some people will cower, but all it really does is build hate.
Others will give back as good as they get.
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Pygoscelis
04-05-2008, 11:21 PM
You know... the more the muslims get haughty and react with violence etc to criticism of their religion, the more I want to see it criticized. If muslims had just shrugged off the cartoons for example, I doubt anybody else would have cared about them or wanted to see them.
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barney
04-05-2008, 11:22 PM
Haughtyness is fine in my book.
killing or threatening people isnt..,
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Na7lah
04-06-2008, 01:31 AM
You know... the more the muslims get haughty and react with violence etc to criticism of their religion, the more I want to see it criticized. If muslims had just shrugged off the cartoons for example, I doubt anybody else would have cared about them or wanted to see them.
why should they keep quite? :?
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Malaikah
04-06-2008, 01:41 AM
Originally Posted by Osman
"It was nothing to do with Islam, I was merely referring to the old proverb, 'If the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad must go to the mountain.' And people said, 'Let's just not!'"
Actually, that is offensive. The proverb is based on a fabricated story about the Prophet Muhammad.
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Uthman
04-06-2008, 11:32 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
If muslims had just shrugged off the cartoons for example, I doubt anybody else would have cared about them or wanted to see them.
I don't feel that Muslims should have just shrugged it off. Nor do I feel that they (the minority) should have reacted in the way that they did, spoiling it for the majority of Muslims.

We should react peacefully, just like Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) always did when he was insulted (and even when people tried to kill him!).
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------
04-06-2008, 11:35 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
You know... the more the muslims get haughty and react with violence etc to criticism of their religion, the more I want to see it criticized. If muslims had just shrugged off the cartoons for example, I doubt anybody else would have cared about them or wanted to see them.
:salamext:

Unlike some people, us Muslims are serious about our religion, Alhamdulillah.
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KAding
04-06-2008, 12:01 PM
Just more proof that unfortunately threats and violence do indeed 'work' to some extend. I suppose a lot of this is a sad side-effect of our modern communication technologies. Without a medium like the internet the ignorant mob in, say, Pakistan wouldn't even be aware some guy in Europe was making something blasphemous.

Of course, luckily there will always be artists who won't allow thugs and intolerance to limit them in their artistic freedom. God bless em ;).
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Trumble
04-06-2008, 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:

Unlike some people, us Muslims are serious about our religion, Alhamdulillah.
Being 'serious' and 'keeping a sense of proportion' (let alone 'a sense of humour') are two totally different things. Jokes that refer to a particular religion do not automatically mean 'mockery'... many Jews and Christians (and I assume muslims?) are able to see genuine humour without taking offence when no offence is intended. Buddhists certainly can, although for some reason there aren't exactly a lot of Buddhist jokes! Here's a story about taking offence that's relevant, though (and a few jokes at the link).


There was a young monk in China who was a very serious practitioner of the Dharma. Once, this monk came across something he did not understand, so he went to ask the master. When the master heard the question, he kept laughing. The master then stood up and walked away, still laughing.

The young monk was very disturbed by the master's reaction. For the next 3 days, he could not eat, sleep nor think properly. At the end of 3 days, he went back to the master and told the master how disturbed he had felt. When the master heard this, he said, "Monk, do you know what your problem is? Your problem is that YOU ARE WORSE THAN A CLOWN!" The monk was shocked to hear that, "Venerable Sir, how can you say such a thing?! How can I be worse than a clown?" The master explained, "A clown enjoys seeing people laugh. You? You feel disturbed because another person laughed. Tell me, are you not worse than a clown?"

When the monk heard this, he began to laugh. He was enlightened.
A lighter side of Buddhism
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crayon
04-06-2008, 12:59 PM
Laughing is wonderful- beautiful, fantastic, marvelous.

Laughing AT a religion, whether it be Islam or any other, is NOT. Religions are out of bounds, they are to be respected, not mocked. Whether you think it's "not having a sense of humor" or not.

There are plenty of other things to laugh about, side stepping religion won't make a difference.
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KAding
04-06-2008, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by crayon
Laughing is wonderful- beautiful, fantastic, marvelous.

Laughing AT a religion, whether it be Islam or any other, is NOT. Religions are out of bounds, they are to be respected, not mocked. Whether you think it's "not having a sense of humor" or not.

There are plenty of other things to laugh about, side stepping religion won't make a difference.
I don't think it's fair that religion gets such a special 'protected' treatment while all other beliefs do not. I don't think it makes sense in a democratic pluralist society to treat religion differently from any other belief.

You'll get used to it :).
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crayon
04-06-2008, 02:06 PM
"I don't think it's fair that religion gets such a special 'protected' treatment while all other beliefs do not"

Speaking of "special protected treatments"...

What if I, hypothetically speaking, do not believe in the holocaust? What if I want to deny that it ever happened? It should be fully within my rights to deny the holocaust. It is a "belief", yet it is a crime in 13 countries. How about a joke denying the holocaust? Pretty much the same, I'm guessing. So much for "freedom of speech".
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muslimah_online
04-06-2008, 05:20 PM
well, they shouldn't be making jokes out of religions on the first place..
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KAding
04-06-2008, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by crayon
"I don't think it's fair that religion gets such a special 'protected' treatment while all other beliefs do not"

Speaking of "special protected treatments"...

What if I, hypothetically speaking, do not believe in the holocaust? What if I want to deny that it ever happened? It should be fully within my rights to deny the holocaust. It is a "belief", yet it is a crime in 13 countries. How about a joke denying the holocaust? Pretty much the same, I'm guessing. So much for "freedom of speech".
In my opinion it is absolutely wrong to outlaw a disbelief in the holocaust.

Yet, I fail to see your point? Does the fact that 13 countries outlaw holocaust denial a reason for you why no jokes should be made about Islam?
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aamirsaab
04-06-2008, 06:29 PM
:sl:
The thing with freedom of speech is people only seem to call it that when they're insulting a religion (in most cases, Islam....:()

I think first and foremost people need to find and accept one definition of freedom of speech. Then we can move on to a discussion about it.

As for this topic; I'm sort of glad that the bbc aren't making muslim jokes but sort of not. See, I like humour and if I do say so myself, I have a prety broad and wide sense of it. Some muslim related jokes are freakin hilarious (I prefer the satirical ones as opposed to juvenile delinquancy etc etc) and I'd love to hear more of them. What I dislike are jokes about Islam (as these tend to consist of juvenile and delinquent humour, since they are based on lies or fabrications, as opposed to satire ergo not funny) However, I am 100% aware of the fact that not everyone shares my sense of humour (as it is rather wide) so in that sense am grateful towards the beeb for ''censoring'' their jokes.

Perhaps in time, satire will become a global mastery and then we'll sit back and laugh. Though, if it's global humour, it probably isn't satire...
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S_87
04-06-2008, 06:45 PM
are they free to make jokes of everything else?

i think not. there are limits and not just with regards to islamic jokes
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islamirama
04-06-2008, 08:46 PM
"Allah made me funny" is an islamic comedy show by muslims. You ppl should watch it. Personally i'm not a fan of it nor do i like it a bit but it will give the non-muslims an idea of what could be islamically or muslimfully acceptable. The reason these people are afraid because of the past and rightly so. When you have morons who make ignorant cartoons and movies to spread hate and false notions about Islam in the so called name of "freedom" then yea, you will get a reaction of DEFENSE from others. Muslims won't object to comedy, kuffars just need to learn how to do it with taste rather then jump on the anti-islam wagon to quick fame followed by hiding in basements and 24/7 security to live like a prisoner for rest of their lives cuz of their own arrogant actions.
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snakelegs
04-06-2008, 09:01 PM
i don't think it's right to deliberately offend someone's religious beliefs.
do you think it's right that people who don't have the basic decency to respect others' feelings/beliefs in this regard are targeted for killing?
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barney
04-06-2008, 11:06 PM
A few years ago i did some research on Islamic jokes. (jokes created by muslims).

There were a lot of englishman irishman scotsman type jokes, but with a christian, a jew and a muslim. guess who got the mickey taken out of them and who came up on top?

I watched a few Allah-made-me-funny shows and interveiws, and concluded that, the title was a bit of a misnomer.
He was a bit Jo Brand like, (a british fat woman comedian who only makes jokes about being a woman and fat), he simply made the same sort of jokes about how the kuffar reacted when he got on a plane.

Jokes are a very cultural thing. Ben Elton who thrives on telling Jokes about drinking ,drugs, political correctness and womens rights probably wont receive much of a laugh from a different culture.

Basically, it comes down to this. Ive joked with christian Preists about noahs Ark, The exodus and even Jesus, they could laugh at themselves and their religion.
I think thats very healthy.
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islamirama
04-07-2008, 01:04 AM
Barney,

that's why i said i'm not too found of "Allah made me funny" show, in my opinion they lack talent and need to go back to the drawing board.
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barney
04-07-2008, 01:32 AM
Dunno if this is appropriate, but to give us an idea of whats acceptable as an islamic joke is this one OK?

if not i'll whack it with an edit.

One day, Adam sat outside the Garden of Eden shortly after eating the apple, and wondered about men and women. So looking up to the heavens he said, "Excuse me God, can I ask you a few questions?"

God replied, "Go on Adam ."

So Adam says, "When you created Eve, why did you make her body curved and tender unlike mine?"

"I did that, Adam, so that you could love her."

"Oh, well then, why did you give her long, shiny, beautiful hair, and not me?"

"I did that Adam so that you could love her."

"Oh, well then, why did you make her so stupid? Certainly not so that I could love her?"

"Well, Adam no. I did that so that she could love you."
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kirk
04-07-2008, 03:18 AM
It is perfectly OK to make jokes about religion as long as you don’t cross the line.

I foresee a comedian making jokes about all the religions without crossing any lines.

Then he will finish by saying “Now for Islam. On second thoughts we won’t go there.” And then Muslims get upset :raging:

-
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barney
04-07-2008, 03:30 AM
Originally Posted by kirk
It is perfectly OK to make jokes about religion as long as you don’t cross the line.

I foresee a comedian making jokes about all the religions without crossing any lines.

Then he will finish by saying “Now for Islam. On second thoughts we won’t go there.” And then Muslims get upset :raging:

-
Already been done. Viz comic last year. gilbert Ratchet went to a mosque to make some jokes, but crossed back over the road to the Anglican church.
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islamirama
04-07-2008, 04:13 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Dunno if this is appropriate, but to give us an idea of whats acceptable as an islamic joke is this one OK?

if not i'll whack it with an edit.

One day, Adam sat outside the Garden of Eden shortly after eating the apple, and wondered about men and women. So looking up to the heavens he said, "Excuse me God, can I ask you a few questions?"

God replied, "Go on Adam ."

So Adam says, "When you created Eve, why did you make her body curved and tender unlike mine?"

"I did that, Adam, so that you could love her."

"Oh, well then, why did you give her long, shiny, beautiful hair, and not me?"

"I did that Adam so that you could love her."

"Oh, well then, why did you make her so stupid? Certainly not so that I could love her?"

"Well, Adam no. I did that so that she could love you."
Personally i don't find that funny at all, that's your typical american jokes that go under the category of "gender attack". Islamically, there is no direct insult to anyone of course, but it's not of good taste nor do we make such jokes that makes one do impersonation of others, especially those of significant importance, like God and prophets, and pretending to talk on their behalf.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) used to joke but he would only speak the truth. If it is with lying, then it is not allowed. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "Woe to the one who speaks and tells a lie in order to make the people laugh at it. Woe to him. Then again, woe to him."

Conditions of permissible joking
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=22170&ln=eng
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crayon
04-07-2008, 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
In my opinion it is absolutely wrong to outlaw a disbelief in the holocaust.

Yet, I fail to see your point? Does the fact that 13 countries outlaw holocaust denial a reason for you why no jokes should be made about Islam?
Because you said it wouldn't be fair if religion got special treatment while others did not. Other beliefs (such as the belief that the holocaust actually happened) are getting special treatment.

You may disagree with this law, but if the majority do not (and I'm assuming it is a majority since the law was approved in the first place), and the majority find believe that religion should not get "special treatment", then what is happening is indeed hypocrisy.
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Izyan
04-07-2008, 01:18 PM
Originally Posted by crayon
"I don't think it's fair that religion gets such a special 'protected' treatment while all other beliefs do not"

Speaking of "special protected treatments"...

What if I, hypothetically speaking, do not believe in the holocaust? What if I want to deny that it ever happened? It should be fully within my rights to deny the holocaust. It is a "belief", yet it is a crime in 13 countries. How about a joke denying the holocaust? Pretty much the same, I'm guessing. So much for "freedom of speech".
I can't speak for those 13 countries but in the US it is perfectly legal to deny the holocaust.
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Izyan
04-07-2008, 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
The thing with freedom of speech is people only seem to call it that when they're insulting a religion (in most cases, Islam....:()
That's not true. Neo Nazis hold rallies and marches in Finland, The KKK hold marches and Rallies in the US. Anti-War rallies are held world wide...
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aamirsaab
04-07-2008, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by Izyan
That's not true. Neo Nazis hold rallies and marches in Finland, The KKK hold marches and Rallies in the US. Anti-War rallies are held world wide...
1) Ok I was not aware of that
2) My comment was about the fact that people only call it freedom of speech after someone who is offended by it complains about it. Sort of like a trump card.

Still I personally think that until freedom of speech is properly defined, we (as a whole) cannot discuss it.
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Muezzin
04-07-2008, 01:28 PM
Jokes about Islam? Off limits.

Jokes about Muslims or certain Muslim behaviours that nobody, not even Muslims, are proud of? Great stuff. I do it all the time. Not in some cheesy, pseudo-xenophobic way, but just tongue-in-cheek ribbing, or, for something with a bit more bite, through satire.
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shahidiceprince
04-07-2008, 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Being 'serious' and 'keeping a sense of proportion' (let alone 'a sense of humour') are two totally different things. Jokes that refer to a particular religion do not automatically mean 'mockery'... many Jews and Christians (and I assume muslims?) are able to see genuine humour without taking offence when no offence is intended. Buddhists certainly can, although for some reason there aren't exactly a lot of Buddhist jokes! Here's a story about taking offence that's relevant, though (and a few jokes at the link).




A lighter side of Buddhism
Is laughing at a religion not a mockery of it? Of course jews and christians do not get offended when anyone laughs at their religions. But, we Muslims do, cuz our religion is being portrayed as a religion which promotes terrorism. We do not know whether someone is making fun of Islaam with a humorous intention or trying to defame it.
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S_87
04-07-2008, 01:35 PM
barney

when it comes to joking about Prophets, well its a serious thing. i dont think anyone should accept jokes about prophets be they christians jews or muslims. how is that true respect?
if someone told me a joke about Jesus peace be upon him i wouldnt take it. same for any other Prophet.

Theres a difference between making jokes about muslims (fine) and Muhammed :arabic5: (not fine)
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Izyan
04-07-2008, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Jokes about Islam? Off limits.

Jokes about Muslims or certain Muslim behaviours that nobody, not even Muslims, are proud of? Great stuff. I do it all the time. Not in some cheesy, pseudo-xenophobic way, but just tongue-in-cheek ribbing, or, for something with a bit more bite, through satire.
Why only jokes about Islam? Have you ever seen George Carlin's routhine? He absolutely blasts Christianity. No one complains.
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Muezzin
04-07-2008, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by Izyan
Why only jokes about Islam?
Er... because this thread is talking about Muslim and Islamic jokes?

Have you ever seen George Carlin's routhine? He absolutely blasts Christianity. No one complains.
Nah, but I've seen him in the Bill and Ted movies.
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Izyan
04-07-2008, 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
1) Ok I was not aware of that
2) My comment was about the fact that people only call it freedom of speech after someone who is offended by it complains about it. Sort of like a trump card.

Still I personally think that until freedom of speech is properly defined, we (as a whole) cannot discuss it.
In the US it is defined very specifically. It only restricts speech done to incite panic or physical harm against someone. For example I can't yell fire in a crowded theater because it creates panic. I can say I hate all Jews and that the Holocaust didn't exist but I can't say that we should work to make sure a real holocaust does happen. In the US the protests wouldn't be aimed at getting the cartoons banned but at getting the people involved fired. Employers have a lot more room for restricting free speech because their employees sign contracts.
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