PDA

View Full Version : Anti-gay bullying books withdrawn



Uthman
04-04-2008, 04:30 PM
A council has withdrawn books for an anti-homophobia programme at two primary schools following an outcry from predominantly Muslim parents.

Bristol City Council said it temporarily removed books and teaching materials at Easton Primary School and Bannerman Road Community School.

This was so they can "meet their legal responsibilities and operate safely".
Members of Bristol Muslim Cultural Society said parents were outraged by the lack of consultation.

The materials are mostly storybooks aimed at five to 10-year-olds.
Farooq Siddique, community development officer for Bristol Muslim Cultural Society and a governor at Bannerman Road, said many schoolchildren, 70% of whom are Muslim, were too young to define heterosexuality and homosexuality.

'Not a priority'


He said: "The agenda was to reduce homophobic bullying, and all the parents said they were not against that side of it, but families were saying to us 'Our child is coming home and talking about same-sex relationships, when we haven't even talked about heterosexual relationships with them yet.'

"In Islam homosexual relationships are not acceptable, as they are not in Christianity and many other religions, but the main issue is that they didn't bother to consult with parents. There was no option to withdraw the child."

He added: "Homosexuality is not a priority to parents, but academic achievement is. This just makes parents think 'What the heck is my child being taught at school?'."

A spokeswoman for the council said: "All Bristol schools have a legal duty to report and deal with homophobic harassment as part of the curriculum since April 2007.

"As part of this, schools can choose to seek specialist advice and training on topics such as homophobia.

"We are now liaising with community forums in the city, local clerics, teachers' unions, the Institute of Community Cohesion and the Equality and Human Rights Commission to ensure that the topic can be addressed in an inclusive manner in the curriculum."

Source
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
muslimah_online
04-06-2008, 05:14 PM
wow.. already learning about sexuality in primary school?
Reply

barney
04-06-2008, 05:25 PM
The curriculum for that is secondary school, year 7.

What was the "operate safely" bit for. Had they been in some danger from someone?
Reply

Uthman
04-06-2008, 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Had they been in some danger from someone?
Most probably, it's not referring to physical danger here. :)
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
barney
04-06-2008, 10:33 PM
:rollseyes:rollseyes:rollseyesYeah, they were probably thinking about the moral danger!
Reply

جوري
04-06-2008, 11:42 PM
there is no point whatsoever in discussing any form of sexuality with seven year olds!
any more than there is a point of handing birth control pills to 11 year old girls...

if you'll shrug your shoulders at either, then truly am I glad that there are concerned and angered parents that object to the introduction of this form of 'education'.

If seven year olds are ready for the story of two men getting bent, then they are ready for quantum physics and natural philosophy.. which frankly should be the main purpose of going to school. expanding the mind not broadening the moral depravity!


cheers
Reply

barney
04-07-2008, 12:00 AM
Well we have to look at that in a cultural and sociological light.
in Ancient Egypt it was common for the wealthy to have male and female concubines as young as 6 or 8 or 9 years old.

Sure we can veiw it now in a enlightened manner, but it hasnt always been that way.
Reply

جوري
04-07-2008, 12:08 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Well we have to look at that in a cultural and sociological light.
in Ancient Egypt it was common for the wealthy to have male and female concubines as young as 6 or 8 or 9 years old.

Sure we can veiw it now in a enlightened manner, but it hasnt always been that way.
12-13 year olds headed armies, sponsored families and ruled kingdoms, but we don't live in those times any more.. under any light, I really don't see how people's life style choices is apposite or appropriate for the classroom?

I don't want my 7 year old nephew learning about two naked men fondling each other, let alone putting any form of moral quandary on it.. I find it very unfortunate that some law makers think it apropos, and all I can say is power to the people for voicing their concerns!


cheers
Reply

barney
04-07-2008, 12:33 AM
Are morals a Sociological thing decided by laws or are they decided by God?
Do morals change as time goes by because God is changing his mind?
Did we misunderstand his meanings in the past to allow slavery?
Is Sex with a slave OK now? assuming i could buy one?
Would a US soldier who took a woman as war booty and possessed her be technically following Gods laws, even if he was an Agnostic?
Reply

جوري
04-07-2008, 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Are morals a Sociological thing decided by laws or are they decided by God?
Do morals change as time goes by because God is changing his mind?
Did we misunderstand his meanings in the past to allow slavery?
Is Sex with a slave OK now? assuming i could buy one?
Would a US soldier who took a woman as war booty and possessed her be technically following Gods laws, even if he was an Agnostic?
your answer and to many other specific Q's on jurisprudence can be answered using the search key, I believe it to be the third from your anatomical right?

without further digressing into unrelated shenanigans, this topic is of homosexuality, an act considered a sexual deviance not 30 years ago in the DSM.. and still in by many not brave enough to sound politically incorrect. God's laws aren't subject to the tides and whims of libbys!

Is homosexuality immoral (yes) by the lowest common denominator a form of adultery.. there is really nothing more to discuss.. do I advocate hate crimes? (No) not any form, not against Sophie Lancaster a 20 year old goth girl or two men who like to get bent with each other. People however, ought to keep their sexual lives private and out of classrooms especially those addressing 7 year olds. It is the sort of thing I don't even want to hear a complain or a whimper about-- I need to be up at 4:30 AM and have nothing further to imapart on the subject-- I am not suddenly going to see how wrong this all is because you pull your 'trump cards' or what appears in your own mind to be a trump card...

cheers!
Reply

barney
04-07-2008, 01:35 AM
Night PA!

Bah.

**Puts trump cards back in pack**
Reply

Ebtisweetsam
04-07-2008, 01:53 AM
Council did the right thing. School isnt a place to learn about this stuff....
;
;
;
;
;
;
;
;
;
;
;
;
;;
;

;
;
;;

;
;;

;
;school playground is enough. :D
Reply

Muezzin
04-07-2008, 01:42 PM
Slavery, Ancient Egypt and general moral decadence?

Really, people, if we must drive threads off-topic, we can at least do it in style. I've yet to see an off-topic post about Jumanji, for instance.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
04-07-2008, 02:02 PM
Children are taught how they should respect different cultures, religions and that sort of stuff, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be taught to respect other things or minorities, namely homosexuals.
I think 7 year olds are to young for this though.
Reply

Amadeus85
04-07-2008, 03:09 PM
Its one of the good point of appearance of muslim immigrant in western Europe. They can help to stop the gay propaganda.
Reply

barney
04-07-2008, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Slavery, Ancient Egypt and general moral decadence?

Really, people, if we must drive threads off-topic, we can at least do it in style. I've yet to see an off-topic post about Jumanji, for instance.
The anti gay book withdrawal reminds me sometimes of how Alan Parrish (played by Robin Williams in the 1995 blockbuster Jumanji), found a book with dark ,and possibly immoral, secrets in it. He had to wait 26 years trapped in the ignorance of Jumani, until he had matured enough to be exposed to such things, (although the things in question were more monkeys and Rhino's and big-game-hunters...they metaphorically in my mind stand for Gay rights propaganda)
Reply

aadil77
04-07-2008, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Its one of the good point of appearance of muslim immigrant in western Europe. They can help to stop the gay propaganda.
lol! yh
Reply

MTAFFI
04-07-2008, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by barney
The anti gay book withdrawal reminds me sometimes of how Alan Parrish (played by Robin Williams in the 1995 blockbuster Jumanji), found a book with dark ,and possibly immoral, secrets in it. He had to wait 26 years trapped in the ignorance of Jumani, until he had matured enough to be exposed to such things, (although the things in question were more monkeys and Rhino's and big-game-hunters...they metaphorically in my mind stand for Gay rights propaganda)
lol.... amazing i never realized until now
Reply

MTAFFI
04-07-2008, 04:13 PM
i have to give a hand to the parents on this one, i dont think children should be exposed to this. Furthermore, I dont really think society should be exposed to this, there is nothing right about to men joined at or between the hips and the same with women. I am not saying kill all the gays, I am just saying it was better when they were all in the closet
Reply

Trumble
04-07-2008, 06:14 PM
The agenda here was not to pursue some sinister 'pro' gay agenda but to combat homophobic bullying. How well the material actually succeeded, or how inappropriate it may have in fact been, I can't comment on as (just like you) I haven't seen it. However, the simple fact is that 'playground' education on any subject sex related - in the UK at least - is years in advance of 'classroom' education. If you don't get the message across when they are young it will be too late to shift the attitudes already there. The message here is that it is wrong to bully or abuse gay people (or in the case of kids people including other kids they think might be gay, which is NOT always the same thing), not to 'promote' homosexuality.
Reply

MTAFFI
04-10-2008, 01:14 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
The agenda here was not to pursue some sinister 'pro' gay agenda but to combat homophobic bullying. How well the material actually succeeded, or how inappropriate it may have in fact been, I can't comment on as (just like you) I haven't seen it. However, the simple fact is that 'playground' education on any subject sex related - in the UK at least - is years in advance of 'classroom' education. If you don't get the message across when they are young it will be too late to shift the attitudes already there. The message here is that it is wrong to bully or abuse gay people (or in the case of kids people including other kids they think might be gay, which is NOT always the same thing), not to 'promote' homosexuality.
why is it not OK to bully or abuse gay people for being gay?
Reply

Amadeus85
04-10-2008, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
why is it not OK to bully or abuse gay people for being gay?
You think that it is ok to do that?
Reply

Keltoi
04-10-2008, 01:35 PM
Sometimes what is meant to be a positive step can turn into a negative depending upon how it is carried out. I think most of us would agree that bullying and assault upon anyone, regardless of their race, religion, or sexual orientation is something our children should be taught to avoid. However, "educating" 7 year olds about homosexual lifestyles probably isn't necessary....at least wait until their high school years.
Reply

Pygoscelis
04-10-2008, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
If seven year olds are ready for the story of two men getting bent, then they are ready for quantum physics and natural philosophy..

Yes, and three dimensional calculus too. I was teaching my 7 year old just today how to calculate saddle points. :D
Reply

Pygoscelis
04-10-2008, 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Its one of the good point of appearance of muslim immigrant in western Europe. They can help to stop the gay propaganda.
I suspect they will prompt exactly the opposite though.

Ever since 9/11 and Islam hitting the news (I can honestly say that many of us where I'm at knew nothing at all about islam before that) anti-religious sentiment has been growing rapidly. And there is little secular reasoning to be anti-homosexual. Like it or not, homosexuality is already becoming accepted and will be as accepted as mixed race couples a decade from now.
Reply

Trumble
04-10-2008, 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
why is it not OK to bully or abuse gay people for being gay?
I'm afraid the very fact you asked that question indicates that I will never be able to provide you with an answer that will satisfy you. I will, however, try.

For the same reason it is not OK to bully people because they happen to be black, white, any other colour, Jewish, Christian, muslim, disabled (physically or mentally), men, women, intelligent, rather less intelligent, support City not United, or just about anything else you can think of.

Or, in short, because they are human beings, just like you.
Reply

Amadeus85
04-10-2008, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I suspect they will prompt exactly the opposite though.

Ever since 9/11 and Islam hitting the news (I can honestly say that many of us where I'm at knew nothing at all about islam before that) anti-religious sentiment has been growing rapidly. And there is little secular reasoning to be anti-homosexual. Like it or not, homosexuality is already becoming accepted and will be as accepted as mixed race couples a decade from now.
You suspect that Europe will be secular forever, but this continent may be very different in next 40 years, and acceptance of sexual deviance might not be as wide as now.
Reply

Muezzin
04-10-2008, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Yes, and three dimensional calculus too. I was teaching my 7 year old just today how to calculate saddle points. :D
You haven't given him or her the 'birds and the bees' talk yet, though, right?

Homosexuality is kind of erm... linked.

Anyone have any extracts from these books? If it says something along the lines of 'don't bully anyone regardless of their gender, race, religion, sexuality, ice cream preference etc', then I doubt there would be much of an issue.
Reply

MTAFFI
04-10-2008, 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
You think that it is ok to do that?
sure i do
Reply

MTAFFI
04-10-2008, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I'm afraid the very fact you asked that question indicates that I will never be able to provide you with an answer that will satisfy you. I will, however, try.
so you were able to since my disgust with regard to the subject?
Originally Posted by Trumble
For the same reason it is not OK to bully people because they happen to be black, white, any other colour, Jewish, Christian, muslim, disabled (physically or mentally), men, women, intelligent, rather less intelligent, support City not United, or just about anything else you can think of.
The part where I disagree is bolded italics, you dont just "happen to be" gay.. It is a conscious choice in lifestyle made by an individual, I dont think it is OK to bully or make fun of someone who "happens" to be a certain way (ie race, etc) but if you choose a lifestyle that is not only immoral and disgusting but also very easily picked at and widely discouraged you shouldnt expect people to not react in one way or another. Personally I will never teach my kid not to bully a queer, I will teach her rather that it is wrong to be that way and to steer far and clear from anyone who may display such a personality
Originally Posted by Trumble
Or, in short, because they are human beings, just like you.
not just like me, they are anatomically similar, but otherwise I am nothing like a homo
Reply

barney
04-10-2008, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
why is it not OK to bully or abuse gay people for being gay?

I have absolutly no idea.
This is what keeps puzzling me. I was walking along through Halifax indoor market the other day, and I saw this bloke holding hands with another.
Naturally, I, in accordance with Gods law, grabbed a wrecking bar from a road workers hut and chased after them.
Smashing it into the first ones face, i was pleased to see the abomination before Gods head burst open. Turning my attention to the other, I was aware that his vile actions, required more suffering than the first , so breaking his ribs with the first blow, i simply kicked and kicked at his head , explaining how God would judge him.

To my utter astonishment, two interfering policemen arressted me. They diddnt seem to care about Gods law, just some pansy human law.
I tell ya, I got 14 years in jail just for doing some good.
This world is going to the dogs.

Sincerely.
Barney
Wandsworth Nick.
Reply

Keltoi
04-10-2008, 04:27 PM
While I don't accept the homosexual lifestyle as being a good thing, I would never under any circumstances condone the beating or murder of a person due to their sexual orientation. Since I'm not homosexual, I don't frequent gay bars or participate in gay parades...so my interaction with that lifestyle is obviously limited. I don't like fans of Hannah Montana either...which is why I tend not to go to her concerts or watch the Disney channel.
Reply

Trumble
04-10-2008, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
so you were able to since my disgust with regard to the subject?
I'd actually call it bigotism with a religious veneer, but yes, I suppose...

The part where I disagree is bolded italics, you dont just "happen to be" gay.. It is a conscious choice in lifestyle made by an individual
Conscious choice? As is your religion. Although there is no choice regarding sexual orientation, just sexual practice.

but if you choose a lifestyle that is not only immoral and disgusting but also very easily picked at and widely discouraged you shouldnt expect people to not react in one way or another.
You mean immoral and disgusting in your opinion? Personally I think gay people have every right not to expect people to behave like moronic five year olds, but there you go.

not just like me, they are anatomically similar, but otherwise I am nothing like a homo
Unless there is something very odd about you, they are likely to be anatomically identical. A question. Who (or what) is responsible for the existence of gay people?
Reply

barney
04-10-2008, 04:30 PM
Is Hannah Montana gay?
Reply

Keltoi
04-10-2008, 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Is Hannah Montana gay?
Not that I'm aware...but her fans are annoying. :D
Reply

glo
04-10-2008, 04:35 PM
You are in fine form today, Barney. :D
Reply

barney
04-10-2008, 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
A question. Who (or what) is responsible for the existence of gay people?
Gayness is Satan twisting peoples minds into vile abominations of the perfection that was intended. Thse sick warped people submit to their lust in wanton disregard to Gods commandments.
Gayness is a new phenomena and began in the west, with the destruction of Moral values as people turned away from Gods word. Nowadays gays are allowed to be protected from the rightious indignation of God fearing people , and your not even allowed to put them in Lunatic Asylums any more for being queer.

Once people accept Gods just and unconditional love for all of humanity, they wont feel the need to be sick perverted abominations who should be clubbed into extinction.


(im getting good at this)
Reply

Keltoi
04-10-2008, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Gayness is Satan twisting peoples minds into vile abominations of the perfection that was intended. Thse sick warped people submit to their lust in wanton disregard to Gods commandments.
Gayness is a new phenomena and began in the west, with the destruction of Moral values as people turned away from Gods word. Nowadays gays are allowed to be protected from the rightious indignation of God fearing people , and your not even allowed to put them in Lunatic Asylums any more for being queer.

Once people accept Gods just and unconditional love for all of humanity, they wont feel the need to be sick perverted abominations who should be clubbed into extinction.


(im getting good at this)
To be serious for a second...it is hard for people of faith to accept what we consider a seriously sinful lifestyle to be "normalized". Especially in regards to the society we want our children to be raised in. That doesn't mean violence against these people is justified, by any stretch of the imagination, but boiling it down to simple close-minded bigotry is wrong as well. I choose to ignore the gay lifestyle and I'm lucky enough to live in an area where my family isn't really exposed to it...besides on television of course. I'm not saying they shouldn't be familiar with reality...but that isn't a lifestyle I want my children to consider "normal"...because to a person of faith it is quite far from normal.
Reply

barney
04-10-2008, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
To be serious for a second...it is hard for people of faith to accept what we consider a seriously sinful lifestyle to be "normalized". Especially in regards to the society we want our children to be raised in. That doesn't mean violence against these people is justified, by any stretch of the imagination, but boiling it down to simple close-minded bigotry is wrong as well. I choose to ignore the gay lifestyle and I'm lucky enough to live in an area where my family isn't really exposed to it...besides on television of course. I'm not saying they shouldn't be familiar with reality...but that isn't a lifestyle I want my children to consider "normal"...because to a person of faith it is quite far from normal.
Bah.
I had just bought a shedful of wholesale Pitchforks.

Now what am I gonna do with em?:raging:
Reply

Amadeus85
04-10-2008, 05:07 PM
There is no question that it is highly bad to hurt or persecute gays and lesbians. They are human beings, we shoudl treat them with respect and show them kindness. It's just that gay activists(who are often different from average homoseuxals) dont make it easier to people with more traditional point of view.The thing is that gay activists are in the avangarde of every "progressive",leftist and anti christian movements in this world.They are not poor minority(at leats here in West) but they are good organizes rich organization which has millions of dollars to fight for their revolution. Because it is what they want, a social and sexual revolution, with no respect to tradition and religion.I also wonder what minorities will defend the children of nowadays gay activists.Because it is clear that these political and ideological cirlces need "opressed" minorities to defend(women,children,immigrants,).
Reply

Keltoi
04-10-2008, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
There is no question that it is highly bad to hurt or persecute gays and lesbians. They are human beings, we shoudl treat them with respect and show them kindness. It's just that gay activists(who are often different from average homoseuxals) dont make it easier to people with more traditional point of view.The thing is that gay activists are in the avangarde of every "progressive",leftist and anti christian movements in this world.They are not poor minority(at leats here in West) but they are good organizes rich organization which has millions of dollars to fight for their revolution. Because it is what they want, a social and sexual revolution, with no respect to tradition and religion.I also wonder what minorities will defend the children of nowadays gay activists.Because it is clear that these political and ideological cirlces need "opressed" minorities to defend(women,children,immigrants,).
Hmmm...perhaps socialized industry and collective land ownership? Naw, surely not. :D
Reply

barney
04-10-2008, 05:12 PM
They will probably be protecting the rights of Straight, white males!
Reply

Keltoi
04-10-2008, 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by barney
They will probably be protecting the rights of Straight, white males!
That is sort of like defending Stalin isn't it? :D Is there any worse insult these days besides being called a "white anglo male"...
Reply

Izyan
04-10-2008, 05:28 PM
I had a gay roommate in college. Really nice chap. I used to hang out with him and his friends (both gay and straight) all the time. I went to gay bars with him for a couple of drink (had already converted from Islam to christianity so this was ok :D). Outside of a few pushy gay men I had a good time. I look at it like this, Isa hung out with a lot worse while he was on earth from adulterers to thieves. His apostoles weren't exactly part of high society when he met them.
Reply

Izyan
04-10-2008, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
That is sort of like defending Stalin isn't it? :D Is there any worse insult these days besides being called a "white anglo male"...
Yeah being called a white anglo male republican.
Reply

MTAFFI
04-10-2008, 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I'd actually call it bigotism with a religious veneer, but yes, I suppose...
Hmm.. bigotism, towards homo's? Wouldnt that be like being a bigot towards people who only wear red hats? I am not sure you can be a bigot towards peoples choice of sexual arousal, can you? If you can then yes I suppose I am
Originally Posted by Trumble
Conscious choice? As is your religion. Although there is no choice regarding sexual orientation, just sexual practice.
There is a choice, homos make the wrong one

Originally Posted by Trumble
You mean immoral and disgusting in your opinion? Personally I think gay people have every right not to expect people to behave like moronic five year olds, but there you go.
So more simply put, to you, there is nothing immoral about homosexuality? You believe that men were meant to be with men just as much as they were women? If so, why cant men have children together or women? Why is it that procreation can only occur with man and female?

Originally Posted by Trumble
Unless there is something very odd about you, they are likely to be anatomically identical. A question. Who (or what) is responsible for the existence of gay people?
Odd about me or odd about them? I am the way I was born (much bigger of course now), what about that man/woman who is pregnant? What about all of the transvestites? People are responsible for the existence of gay people, you know of any other species on earth that practices same sex, sex?

Look I am not condoning the beating or torture or killing of homosexuals, but I am not condoning homosexuality as a norm either. They are wrong and quite frankly I dont want myself, my family or friends to be exposed to these perverts, furthermore, I see nothing wrong with exercising my freedom of speech with them either. I do not want a fag waiting on me in a restaurant, and I will tell them so, bluntly, I do not want one sitting next to my daughter in a class, on a plane, on a bus or on a truck, I do not like them here or there I do not like them anywhere...Dr SuessIt is disgusting, vile and immoral, if you dont believe so, then I guess I hold myself to a higher morality than you, which is fine by me.
Reply

MTAFFI
04-10-2008, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by barney
I have absolutly no idea.
This is what keeps puzzling me. I was walking along through Halifax indoor market the other day, and I saw this bloke holding hands with another.
Naturally, I, in accordance with Gods law, grabbed a wrecking bar from a road workers hut and chased after them.
Smashing it into the first ones face, i was pleased to see the abomination before Gods head burst open. Turning my attention to the other, I was aware that his vile actions, required more suffering than the first , so breaking his ribs with the first blow, i simply kicked and kicked at his head , explaining how God would judge him.

To my utter astonishment, two interfering policemen arressted me. They diddnt seem to care about Gods law, just some pansy human law.
I tell ya, I got 14 years in jail just for doing some good.
This world is going to the dogs.

Sincerely.
Barney
Wandsworth Nick.
hey

I am not saying beat them up or kill them, I am simply saying my respect is something that must be earned. I have a very high sense of integrity and gays dont fit my profile. I just dont want anything to do with them.. Fortunately I live in a part of the US where this really isnt an issue, and my daughter and family is not really exposed to it often. However, it is particularly disturbing when traveling to places like San Fran or San Diego and seeing that type of culture. My personal opinion is it is disgusting. However, as long as I am not approached and my space and person is not impeded on then no one will catch a beating.
Reply

Pygoscelis
04-10-2008, 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
You suspect that Europe will be secular forever, but this continent may be very different in next 40 years, and acceptance of sexual deviance might not be as wide as now.
"sexual deviance" is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Some muslims think poligamy is ok. Some western religious folks think homosexuality is ok. This is all very arbitrary and there is no logic to any of it outside of religious dogma.
Reply

aadil77
04-10-2008, 06:22 PM
[QUOTE=Pygoscelis;926144]"sexual deviance" is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Some muslims think poligamy is okQUOTE]


Yh well getting bent and poligamy are two wayyy too different things
Reply

Azy
04-10-2008, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
To be serious for a second...it is hard for people of faith to accept what we consider a seriously sinful lifestyle to be "normalized". ...... I choose to ignore the gay lifestyle and I'm lucky enough to live in an area where my family isn't really exposed to it ....... but that isn't a lifestyle I want my children to consider "normal"...because to a person of faith it is quite far from normal.
Interesting how you keep referring to it as a "lifestyle", as if being gay is like some sort of deviant social club, akin to living in a crackhouse.

If being gay is a choice, could you force yourself to fancy people of the same sex?

Originally Posted by Aaron85
with no respect to tradition and religion.
Odd that, they don't respect the traditions and religions which say they should be stoned to death.
Reply

barney
04-10-2008, 06:52 PM
AJ Jacobs book,"Year of Living Biblically" has a part where he visits the Gay-Christian Church in the middle of the Bible Belt.

The Gay pastor in command, explained the "clobbering verses" as the "Clobbered verses", and says that
"Lying with a man as with a woman, is simply saying that you shouldnt sleep with something you disrespect, as women in those days were disrespected"

My right eyebrow shot up of course on so many levels. I was considering booking a family outing to his church as the kids have always been fond of seeing people jump through impossible hoops.


To the people who have answered so far with a "If they leave me alone...I wont hurt them", Is the fact that to bully or harrass someone because of their orientation is a crime acing as a detterent to you carrying out Gods will in putting Gays to death.
Reply

crayon
04-10-2008, 07:14 PM
Kids need to be taught that bullying anyone is wrong, period.

End of story.
Reply

Pygoscelis
04-10-2008, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
Odd that, they don't respect the traditions and religions which say they should be stoned to death.
lol so true so true
Reply

Asper
04-10-2008, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by crayon
Kids need to be taught that bullying anyone is wrong, period.

End of story.
Ameen sister.
Reply

Keltoi
04-10-2008, 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
Interesting how you keep referring to it as a "lifestyle", as if being gay is like some sort of deviant social club, akin to living in a crackhouse.

If being gay is a choice, could you force yourself to fancy people of the same sex?

Odd that, they don't respect the traditions and religions which say they should be stoned to death.
It is a lifestyle choice, yes. I can have an inner lust for kangaroos, but unless I act on those desires I am not living the "kangaroo lust" lifestyle. :D

Now of course, most "liberal" minded people will say asking those with homosexual desires not to act upon them is bigoted, shallow, unrealistic, and religious extremism.

Personally, I don't care what homosexuals do, as long as I'm not expected to get involved. However, I don't have to "leftisize" myself to the point where I'm expected to see it as a normal state of existence either.
Reply

aamirsaab
04-10-2008, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
"sexual deviance" is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Some muslims think poligamy is ok. Some western religious folks think homosexuality is ok. This is all very arbitrary and there is no logic to any of it outside of religious dogma.
Erm, there's quite a bit of logic to polygamy, such as the expansion of mankind and the spreading of surplus wealth to poor people, in addition to bolstering community (due to family construct etc)

There's no logic to homosexuality though. It's pretty much down to emotion and conformity, really (some sort of logic does come into it what with the partnership thing but it's emotion that's driving it). Do note I studied about homosexuality in psychology - so I'm not making this up :p.

Originally Posted by Azy
Odd that, they don't respect the traditions and religions which say they should be stoned to death.
You do know that in Islam, the homo who committed the act would have to go through a court system and have to be found guilty first before any punishment can be given? It's not like you throw rocks at every gay person you see.
Reply

Suomipoika
04-10-2008, 10:56 PM
I guess this thread is good at portraying why those books are needed in the first place. Im glad schools are combatting against intolerance and hatred.

I hope there is a way to teach tolerance for young children towards gay people without the books being too detailed about sexuality (which we dont actually know if they were).
Reply

جوري
04-10-2008, 11:07 PM
in case you've missed it, the books are withdrawn!!!.. children have no business learning of deviant sexual acts or life styles.. frankly neither do adults.. if two men want to get bent together, they shouldn't flaunt it in everyone's face and expect the world to felicitate their lechery--

do heterosexuals hold parades wearing sleezy thongs, gyrating to every onlooker... what a farce... what is more absured is those who promote and encourage them!
Reply

barney
04-10-2008, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
I guess this thread is good at portraying why those books are needed in the first place. .
Amen to that.
Reply

Pygoscelis
04-11-2008, 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Erm, there's quite a bit of logic to polygamy, such as the expansion of mankind and the spreading of surplus wealth to poor people, in addition to bolstering community (due to family construct etc)

There's no logic to homosexuality though.
Actually, in an age of human overpopulatoin, homosexuality could have some arguments made for it - along the same lines as those you're thinking of for poligamy
Reply

Pygoscelis
04-11-2008, 01:59 AM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
do heterosexuals hold parades wearing sleezy thongs, gyrating to every onlooker... what a farce... what is more absured is those who promote and encourage them!
This is two pronged.

1. Gay Pride exists because of decades, nay centuries of gay shame. It is backlash. A decade or so after homosexuality is accepted by mainstream society we can expect gay pride to subside.

2. Anti-homosexuals are religious bigots, and I for one frankly admit that I not only accept homosexuals, but cheer them on if just to make the bigots pay for their bigotry. For example, its fun to pretend to be gay and hit on these people, to see them squirm. And before you say thas mean spirited and unfair and I should respect "religious ideals", I say you make yourself fair game if you discriminate and try to ostracize a segment of society. I'll do the same to white supremecists.
Reply

barney
04-11-2008, 01:59 AM
Humanity has a built in population control matey.
It's called a desire to kill each other at the drop of a hat.

BTW, I'm not defending Gays cos im a shirtlifter myself. If i was, i'd stone myself right here and now.
Reply

Muezzin
04-11-2008, 08:04 AM
This thread seems to have gone far enough...

Closing.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-19-2010, 02:25 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-13-2010, 07:04 PM
  3. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 02-26-2007, 03:00 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-19-2006, 05:47 PM
  5. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 07-18-2006, 12:59 AM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!