format_quote Originally Posted by
Azy
I was just confirming my agreement with barney.Both those events are in Acts, not Galatians.
You're right in that Jesus never explicitly said the words, but a lot of the language used is poetic. I'm not excusing it or condoning it because I neither follow it or believe in it's absolute accuracy, I'm not a christian and never have been/will be, I just find religion and interesting topic.
OK, THAT surprised me! care to reveal your religious beliefs?
Anyway, it just seems obvious from the words and actions of Jesus, like the sermon on the mount that we've discussed and Jesus meeting with the sinful Samaritan woman at the well and taking a drink from her (which would have been a big no-no to Jews).
Peters' dream in Acts shows him to be still following Kosher food laws, this SHOULD eliminate any question of whether or not Jesus did away with those particular laws.
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,
speaking of Galations, i was watching the Frontline show From Jesus To Christ: The first Christians, and the Professors there raise some interesting poinst.
first and foremost of these is this:
NARRATOR: With so little evidence to go by, archeologists must sift the clues and scholars decode the stories told by the first followers of Jesus.
Prof. MICHAEL WHITE, University of Texas, Austin: The problem for any historian in trying to reconstruct the life of Jesus is simply that
we don't have sources that come from the actual time of Jesus himself. HOLLAND L. HENDRIX, President, Union Theological Seminary: The historian's task in understanding Jesus and the Jesus movement and early Christianity is a lot like the archaeologist's task in excavating a tell. You peel back layer after layer after layer of interpretation, and what
you always find is a plurality of Jesuses
so no contemperaneous evidence and a plurality of Jesus!
regarding Gentiles being interested in Judaism:
Prof. PAULA FREDRIKSEN, Boston University: Why do gentiles join the movement? There is this tremendous religious prestige, thanks to the antiquity of the Jewish Bible. By entering into the church, these Christians enter into that history as well. That's tremendously prestigious and important
one of points as well is that the early Christians were interested in Judaism adn the Jewish Bible! it's one of the attractions, NOT a stumbling block! all 613 mitzvahs? maybe not, but still...
NARRATOR: Like most Jewish communities, the early followers of Jesus assembled for worship in each other's homes.
Prof. WAYNE MEEKS, Yale University: Among the things that make the Christians different are a couple of rituals, which they developed early on, before the very earliest sources that we have about them. One of these is an initiation ceremony, which they call "baptism," which is simply a Greek word that means dunking. A second major ritual which they developed is a meal, a common meal which they have together, which is designed as a memorial of the Last Supper which Jesus had with his disciples.
ahem, THEY ATE TOGETHER!
regarding how Jewish one must become:
Prof. MICHAEL WHITE: Now the situation seems to be that initially, when people were attracted to the Jesus movement, they first became Jews.
NARRATOR: Becoming a Jew was no easy matter. It meant conforming to strict Jewish laws.
READER: [Leviticus 11:46-47] "This is the law to make a distinction between the unclean and the clean, and between the living creature that may be eaten and the living creature that may not be eaten."
Prof. MICHAEL WHITE: There are several issues involved here. One is the notion of the dietary laws, the eating restrictions that would have obtained for eating certain kinds of food if one was an observant Jew, also with whom one could eat.
looking back at the words of Jesus, the whole clean and unclean seems to me to point to the issue of people and not food...
but Paul appears to see things differently:
Prof. SHAYE J.D. COHEN, Brown University: We now have, Paul says, a new map of the world. The old distinctions between Jews and gentiles are now obliterated. They have now been supplanted by a new and truer and more wonderful and more beautiful map, in which we have a new Israel that will embrace both Jews and gentiles, all those who now accept the new covenant and the new faith.
READER: [Galatians 3:28] "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."
so were back to Galations, what is going on here?
Prof. MICHAEL WHITE: And that would spark one of the most important controversies of the first generation: Do you have to become a Jew in order to be a follower of Jesus as the messiah?
we may have found our issue!
READER: [Galatians 2:1-2] "I went up to Jerusalem with Barnabas and I laid before the acknowledged leaders the gospel that I proclaim among the gentiles.
BUT! notice Paul is coming to Jerusalem to inform the leaders of the Church about the Gospel that he is proclaiming!? so, it's a different gospel? NOT being an acknowledged leader, he must be acting on his own...
Prof. MICHAEL WHITE: Paul says explicitly that he went down to Jerusalem to meet with the leaders of the church there. He calls them the "pillars."
notice Paul is not one of the Pillars...
now, some sort of agreement SEEMS to, be reached but:
Prof. ALLEN CALLAHAN: A classic showdown in the history of earliest Christianity, and Paul tells the story this way. He says that in Antioch he encountered Peter, who was having a meal with non-Israelite Jesus people. Peter thought this was all right until the contingent from Jerusalem came.
Prof. PAULA FREDRIKSEN: And they tap Peter on the shoulder and Peter stops attending these banquets. And then we get a great passage of "Espuit de l'espalier." It's probably what Paul wishes he had thought to say to Peter at the time, but in the letter it's presented as what he says to Peter. And he's yelling at Peter for not being true to the Gospel and not being true to Christ and not being true to this vision of things. And what he's really yelling at Peter about is food.
so what's the result?
Prof. ALLEN CALLAHAN: And the way Paul tells it is he says, "Well, you know, I confronted Peter publicly. I told him he was a hypocrite. I told him off to his face. I told him off in front of everybody." End of story.
Well, the story really doesn't have an end. You know, we'd like Paul to tell us that after he told Peter off, he sort of skulked back to Jerusalem with his tail between his legs and then Paul gave James and his party the what for and then he threw them out or something like that. Nothing like that. Paul's completely silent.
Now, this suggests to us that Paul indeed had a showdown in Antioch. He did face off with Peter. He didn't win. He didn't carry the day, at least not that day. So this suggests to us that James's party was influential and influential outside its Jerusalem jurisdiction, and that perhaps James and his posse were there because they felt that their authority should be exercised outside of the jurisdiction of Jerusalem.
Prof. MICHAEL WHITE: The blow-up in Antioch over eating with gentiles probably is the turning point in Paul's career. Paul left and went to western Turkey or Asia Minor and Greece. For the next 10 years, from 50 to roughly 60, Paul will concentrate all of his efforts in this region of the Aegean basin.
source:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...c/script1.html
so Paul loses and Paul then spends the next 10 years out of the reach of the leaders of the church! no agreement anymore! YET, Christianity continued to expand, this should lead one to conclude that Gentiles were no longer unclean as they continued to join the church, but unclean food was out! of course, i believe that it was never in...
:w: