Business Issue

[AnonymousPoster]

:sl:
Currently i programmed a game, a mafia/gangster style game and now i have some issues with its features. The game has a virtual currency "Cash" that can be earned through actions in the game and trading and such. But also there is another form of currency in the game called "points" which can be bought using real money, but they can't be sold back but can be sold to other players for "Cash". The "points" can be used in-game for advantages and the "cash" can be used to buy game stuff.

So....I wanted to add a "Poker" game. They play it with their game monies as if it was real poker except they don't earn real money through it just game currency. So it's basically just fun and no real life money is earned.

Is this haram? Theres no real money earned or anything, i thought I'd be sure.:)

[Woodrow]

:sl:

Gambling is not limited the risk of winning or loosing money only. There is also the psychological aspect of developing the gambling desire.

Gambling is very enjoyable and can become very addictive In my younger days I was quite a gambler, did quite well at it to. I spent quite a few hours in casinos. But, money was never the reason I was gambling, I was addicted to the challenge of winning and the feeling of winning was far more important than any money won.

So, although I was buying chips with real money. My goal was not to make money, my one and only goal was the winning. Any money won simply went back for more chips. I was not bringing any money home, I was using it to buy more chips.

I was not playing poker for the money I bought chips and played with them, and I used any money won to buy more chips simply to play more.

Was that Gambling?

Was that haram?

Answer those two questions honestly and I believe you will have answered your own question.

[AnonymousPoster]

Yes, that was gambling.
Yes, that was haram.

I do understand what you are saying, but in this matter i have complete control because i can put limits in the game to somewhat stop "addiction". Like a number of how many games a user can play daily.

And i also have a theory about that logic, is its that when you're addicted to gambling you're going to waste all your money on it thus harming your life and possibly of those around you. But this is a game, in it you practically beat people up and take money from them lol, but yes there is still the limit that i could put in.

I do need to compromise in this matter, because my job depends on it. I general i would just decline to program a gambling game, i don't even know the rules either. But in this case if i refuse i lose my job. Of course i don't want to trade my religion for my job, but i don't want to give up my job just because of a point that i missed. That wouldn't be fair really.

[Woodrow]

Yes, that was gambling.
Yes, that was haram.

I do understand what you are saying, but in this matter i have complete control because i can put limits in the game to somewhat stop "addiction". Like a number of how many games a user can play daily.

And i also have a theory about that logic, is its that when you're addicted to gambling you're going to waste all your money on it thus harming your life and possibly of those around you. But this is a game, in it you practically beat people up and take money from them lol, but yes there is still the limit that i could put in.

I do need to compromise in this matter, because my job depends on it. I general i would just decline to program a gambling game, i don't even know the rules either. But in this case if i refuse i lose my job. Of course i don't want to trade my religion for my job, but i don't want to give up my job just because of a point that i missed. That wouldn't be fair really.

:w:

This is a very difficult quandry you are in. It is very similar to our brothers and sisters who need to work for an income, yet the only job they can find is in retail sales and part of that includes selling Haram products. There are several rulings about that. I will try to find the specific rulings.

In the meantime since you have control of the programming, I would first suggest that you learn the rules of poker and design the program to either reduce the gambling part to skill and try to put in blocks to prevent some of the more blatant aspects of gambling in poker.

In a face-to-face poker game a very large part of the game is deceit and learning how to bluff your opponents. a good poker player soon learns how to determine an opponents hand by the way they bid. After evaluating the skill level of the opponent you try to manipulate your bids to convince the opponent you have something different, the goals being to get him to drop if you believe he has a good hand or to get him to bid heavily if you believe you have a better hand. Lots of manipulation takes place.

If you can eliminate the manipulation, change it to pure skill, I suspect you could make it into a halal game.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[AnonymousPoster]

It's an online "table" doesn't that mean that no one sees the other and can't judge their moves by their physical reactions? Thats some form of manipulation control right? Whats left is the players acting with their bets as you said.

I don't really know how to bend the rules after that, it's supposed to be a "Texas hold em" poker game. I did however read the rules, and another portion of the game is the cards that a player is dealt. So theres a noticeable form of luck/chance in it.

But isn't it just a game in the end? I mean you don't actually bet with your real life money then earn it back and multiply it or cost your self and others money and then go to rehab lol

[Woodrow]

It's an online "table" doesn't that mean that no one sees the other and can't judge their moves by their physical reactions? Thats some form of manipulation control right? Whats left is the players acting with their bets as you said.

I don't really know how to bend the rules after that, it's supposed to be a "Texas hold em" poker game. I did however read the rules, and another portion of the game is the cards that a player is dealt. So theres a noticeable form of luck/chance in it.

But isn't it just a game in the end? I mean you don't actually bet with your real life money then earn it back and multiply it or cost your self and others money and then go to rehab lol

I checked with a few local Imams. They agree with you.

Also on a personal experience Texas Hold-em is the most difficult game to bluff in. If the game is designed for young kids, that will not be a problem.

I would suggest that you do not depend on one person's opinion. Remember, none of us here are Scholars.

[AnonymousPoster]

I have asked other people, many of them replied with "Haram" after they heard the term Poker just out of prejudice and the others got baffled after thinking and told me to ask other people. So i ended up asking online so people wouldn't think that I'm running a casino lol.

I'll go on with it, it makes sense to me and i feel fine about it now. Thanks for all your help and patience, may Allah bless you with even more wisdom and knowledge. You've helped me quite a lot with the matter. Now i know that what i was thinking isn't defiant, Just not based on prejudice about a game :).

[Yanal]

Asalam alaykum
What's the website. Because i tend to enjoy virtual games?

[Snowflake]

Brother Anon, if you dont mind me butting in lol, I'd just like to ask if it's possible you can invent an islamic game for kiddies? A multiplayer game where opponents score by:

1) answering basic islamic knowledge questions (can be multiple choice qs)
2) doing good deeds along the way (helping someone)
3) avoiding the 'devil's temptation' to help you win (a temptation box will show benefits- but once clicked will make player lose points)
(a good way to test patience and imaan)

Loses points by:
1) giving wrong answers
2) missing good deeds which take time completing (to finish the level/game first)
3) clicking 'devil's temptation boxes' to earn points - (an illusion)

Conclusion: The opponent who has 'cheated' may have completed game first -but will actually lose through lower scores - making the patient (God-fearing) player win. :D That'll teach the cheat something eh?

What do you think? :?

[AnonymousPoster]

Brother Yanal, honestly i don't know if i should be giving that away.

Sister Muslimah, I think the idea of introducing religion to a game does sound like a good one. But i only work for others at the moment and can't support a setup of my own, not a problem with the money just can't afford the time :X.

[Snowflake]

hey np bro.. one day inshaAllah