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islamirama
04-08-2008, 12:44 AM
Dutch Jews louder than Muslims in condemning 'Fitna' film [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image002.gif[/IMG]


By Cnaan Liphshiz [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image003.gif[/IMG]

THE HAGUE - Ironically, Dutch Jews are more outspoken than local Muslims in their criticism of the newly released anti-Islam film by rightist legislator Geert Wilders, says Dr. Ronny Naftaniel, head of the pro-Zionist Center for Information and Documentation (CIDI).

Last Friday, hours after the film's online release, CJO, the Jewish community central board of which CIDI is a member, condemned the footage as generalizing and counterproductive to the fight against extremism. The board described parts of the film as unacceptable, adding it had crossed the line of legitimate criticism.

By contrast, Yusuf Altuntas of CMO, a body that facilitates contact between Muslims and the government, said that by releasing the film - which is entitled "Fitna" (Arabic for "strife") - "Wilders is testing the limits of acceptability, but hasn't gone beyond them."


The Muslim community's response - which the Dutch media described as "calm" - was to say the film is not religiously insulting to Islam, and that they had anticipated more offensive content. The government's fears of rioting never materialized.

"They [the Muslim community] are afraid. They have been told by the Dutch government to keep quiet and be wise about this issue, and that's what they want to do," Naftaniel told Haaretz on Monday in CIDI's four-story headquarters near the American embassy.

"I was surprised by the silence of the local Muslim leaders," Naftaniel added. "If I were a Muslim, I would speak out and I would blame Wilders for this film. I wouldn't stop shouting about it. I don't understand their silence, I really don't. I think they are scared."

A spokesman for CMO told Haaretz that although the Muslim community had not taken to protesting the film in the streets, the umbrella group for Dutch Muslims does condemn it.

The 15-minute film, which drew millions of viewers since its release Thursday, contains footage of Muslim clerics and protesters calling for the slaying of Jews, verses from the Koran, videos from scenes of suicide bombings and executions, illustrations of the demographic increase in the number of European Muslims and archive material from the Dutch media about Islamic terrorism-related incidents.

Naftaniel says that even though he feels the Dutch Jewish community is more at liberty to criticize "Fitna" than the Muslim community, "the only thing which may prevent many Jews from criticizing this film is that they consider Wilders very pro-Israeli and that they don't want to annoy him."

After the Jewish community condemned the film, CIDI received several angry calls from members who objected to the criticism. "Some even wanted to leave our organization, but I really think that what he did was wrong," he said.

Naftaniel stressed that it's not the criticism of Islam that prompted him to condemn the film, but the linking of that criticism of Koran-inspired violence with the demographics. Naftaniel said that is tantamount to suggesting all Muslims are terrorists.

CIDI's founder says he was particularly offended by angry reactions to the Jewish condemnation of "Fitna." These reactions, which came mainly as reader responses to online articles about the condemnation, accused the Jewish community of trying to appease the Holland's Muslims.

"We are never afraid to speak out in the harshest of terms against what we think is wrong, be it against Muslim extremism here in the Netherlands, or the Dutch or Israeli governments," he said. "But this movie portrays all Muslims as The Enemy. And this is just not true."
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Roasted Cashew
04-08-2008, 05:23 PM
He says: "I was surprised by the silence of the local Muslim leaders," Naftaniel added. "If I were a Muslim, I would speak out and I would blame Wilders for this film. I wouldn't stop shouting about it. I don't understand their silence, I really don't. I think they are scared."


So, now we are scared. Calmness means being afraid? Great.
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aamirsaab
04-08-2008, 07:47 PM
:sl:
Source please.

Not the chilli variety though.

Hahahaha I made a funny.
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جوري
04-08-2008, 08:50 PM
d***ed if you do and d***ed if you don't ha?... but this is the age when God has lifted the fear from their heart toward us... and it is because we love this dounya...

tomorrow is not far behind though.. let them keep pushing... this is exactly the sort of impetus this umma needs to wake up as a whole not in part...

:w:
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Dr.Trax
04-08-2008, 09:04 PM
Shame On Us!!!:X
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snakelegs
04-08-2008, 09:42 PM
pro-Zionist Center for Information
just a wild conjecture - would it be in the zionists' interest to goad the muslims in to doing something stupid? calling someone "scared" would be a pretty good way to go about it.
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barney
04-08-2008, 10:01 PM
One person calling muslims "scared" dosnt equate to a general feeling.
I feel like a fish pie smothered in chocolate at the moment. The whole of England dosn't.

Why havn't the Dutch and the West come out in wild cheers at the muslim tolerance this time round?
Well they should. Apart from threats to murder, this time nobody has died...so far.
Thats gotta be worth a big applause.

Personally, I'll say, apart from the group making death-threats, it's all been handled very well. Let them do say two more cartoons /films/mayby a poem and theyll get bored. Unless some more bombs go off.
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snakelegs
04-08-2008, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by barney
One person calling muslims "scared" dosnt equate to a general feeling.
I feel like a fish pie smothered in chocolate at the moment. The whole of England dosn't.

Why havn't the Dutch and the West come out in wild cheers at the muslim tolerance this time round?
Well they should. Apart from threats to murder, this time nobody has died...so far.
Thats gotta be worth a big applause.

Personally, I'll say, apart from the group making death-threats, it's all been handled very well. Let them do say two more cartoons /films/mayby a poem and theyll get bored. Unless some more bombs go off.
i think they will keep pushing and pushing until they get the reaction they want.
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barney
04-08-2008, 10:15 PM
Why should they if they dont get goaded with demonstrations? You know how the west works mate.
If somethings boring, we'd rather watch Big Brother.
If someones burning a flag or killing people, it sparks the interest.
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snakelegs
04-08-2008, 10:18 PM
if you want to stir up xenophobia and support for right wing political parties, a lack of spectacular muslim response is not gonna do it.
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barney
04-08-2008, 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
if you want to stir up xenophobia and support for right wing political parties, a lack of spectacular muslim response is not gonna do it.
Thats trufax.

I'm imagining that the full awareness that this film exists hasnt spread yet.
Lets hope that the Ummah can show that they truely are a religion of peace, and demonstrate with the dignity of Ghandi.
He called gently for reason and brought down a empire of bigotry.
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jzcasejz
04-08-2008, 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by Dr.Trax
Shame On Us!!!:X
Shame on them!
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Roasted Cashew
04-09-2008, 04:37 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
just a wild conjecture - would it be in the zionists' interest to goad the muslims in to doing something stupid? calling someone "scared" would be a pretty good way to go about it.
Observed like an EXPERT! Bravo.
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Roasted Cashew
04-09-2008, 04:38 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Thats trufax.
What's trufax? What does it mean?
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Muezzin
04-09-2008, 02:32 PM
It's-a my Dolmio day. Translation: Source, please.

I was going to say, 'hmm, seems like a ploy from certain groups to goad certian Muslims', but then some turd-brains would accuse me of being anti-Semitic. Anyone who would say such a thing obviously hasn't seen my nose.
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barney
04-09-2008, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by hmmm5
What's trufax? What does it mean?
It's hip and happening street speak. It means True Facts.
I say it 'cuz I iz down wiv da kidz in full effect!
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snakelegs
04-09-2008, 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
It's-a my Dolmio day. Translation: Source, please.

I was going to say, 'hmm, seems like a ploy from certain groups to goad certian Muslims', but then some turd-brains would accuse me of being anti-Semitic. Anyone who would say such a thing obviously hasn't seen my nose.
this is pretty much what i said. the organization which accused the muslims of being too scared to react was identified as
pro-Zionist Center for Information and Documentation (CIDI).
so there - you're innocent. i said it meself.
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KAding
04-09-2008, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
this is pretty much what i said. the organization which accused the muslims of being too scared to react was identified as

so there - you're innocent. i said it meself.
The CIDI is no extremist group though. They are quite respected. I think you are being a bit too suspicious.
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snakelegs
04-09-2008, 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
The CIDI is no extremist group though. They are quite respected. I think you are being a bit too suspicious.
possibly. well, i did call it a wild conjecture when i first mentioned it. since we are talking about a pro-zionist organization, i would not rule it out and i think it's worth considering. i would think the zionists would like muslims going beserk. this certainly sounds like a come-on type challenge to me.

"I was surprised by the silence of the local Muslim leaders," Naftaniel added. "If I were a Muslim, I would speak out and I would blame Wilders for this film. I wouldn't stop shouting about it. I don't understand their silence, I really don't. I think they are scared."
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Ninth_Scribe
04-09-2008, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
just a wild conjecture - would it be in the zionists' interest to goad the muslims in to doing something stupid? calling someone "scared" would be a pretty good way to go about it.
Uhm. Not mening to bust a bubble, but not all Jews believe in the new state and don't appreciate the conflict it caused between them and their brothers, the Muslims. Most would prefer living in peace... in Iran, Iraq, Morocco, Egypt, America - and wouldn't even dream of stepping foot in the state that is called Israel - and these are the ones who speak out against such atrocities the most. I don't think it was meant to be a competition on who speaks out the most.

Ninth Scribe
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anatolian
04-09-2008, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
just a wild conjecture - would it be in the zionists' interest to goad the muslims in to doing something stupid? calling someone "scared" would be a pretty good way to go about it.
Exactly:thumbs_up

The cartoon riots were provocated by the same way.
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snakelegs
04-09-2008, 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Uhm. Not mening to bust a bubble, but not all Jews believe in the new state and don't appreciate the conflict it caused between them and their brothers, the Muslims. Most would prefer living in peace... in Iran, Iraq, Morocco, Egypt, America - and wouldn't even dream of stepping foot in the state that is called Israel - and these are the ones who speak out against such atrocities the most. I don't think it was meant to be a competition on who speaks out the most.

Ninth Scribe
i'm aware of that. i wasn't talking about jews - i was talking about zionists, not even all israelis support the actions of their government, for that matter. so i'm not sure what your point is? :?
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