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AvarAllahNoor
04-08-2008, 09:11 AM
JERUSALEM, April 7, (Agencies): An Israeli government minister warned on Monday that Israel would respond to any Iranian attack by destroying that country, public radio reported. “An Iranian attack against Israel would trigger a tough reaction that would lead to the destruction of the Iranian nation,” National Infrastruc-ture Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer said in remarks of rare virulence. “Iranians are aware of our strength but continue to provoke us by arming their Syrian allies and Hezbollah,” he said during a meeting at his ministry. Ben-Eliezer, a member of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s security cabinet, stressed however that the Iranians were unlikely to attack as “they understand the meaning of such an act.”

Last month, Defence Minister Ehud Barak told visiting US Vice- President Dick Cheney that “no option” would be ruled out in Israel’s bid to stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. Ben-Eliezer also stressed that an ongoing five-day home front defence exercise was not meant to threaten Israel’s neighbours, but stressed that “the scenarios considered in the exercise could be reality tomorrow.” Iran on Monday ruled out halting or limiting sensitive nuclear work in exchange for trade and other incentives from major powers and instead suggested it may announce new developments in the programme this week. Iran marks its National Day of Nuclear Technology on April 8, an occasion President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad used last year to proclaim industrial uranium enrichment capacity.


http://www.arabtimesonline.com/clien...=15068&ccid=11

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AvarAllahNoor
04-08-2008, 09:17 AM
Iran is nothing like Iraq. The results of an attack would be on a completely different scale.

Iraq was isolated in the region and was led by an anti-islamic dictator, yet look how the Islamic world has descended on it and made it their war.

Iran is looked up to as a symbol of defiance (of the west) in the mid east region and around the Muslim world. Attacking Iran would consolidate Muslims across the globe against the west even more than they are now.

WWIII: Muslims vs. Christians; Winner gets the dwindling supply of oil in the desert and the charred remains of Jerusalem. woohoo!
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barney
04-08-2008, 09:33 AM
I dont think Israel will pop a nuke at Iran, nope.
I think something like taking out their nuke programme is likely.

Syria and Saudi and all the others would be the winners. They get Irans fangs pulled , they become safe from Ivehadmedinnerdads freakish nutjob messianic atomic fantasys and they get to Slam their favorite hook-nosed black hats.
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AvarAllahNoor
04-08-2008, 10:24 AM
Originally Posted by barney
I dont think Israel will pop a nuke at Iran, nope.
I think something like taking out their nuke programme is likely.

Syria and Saudi and all the others would be the winners. They get Irans fangs pulled , they become safe from Ivehadmedinnerdads freakish nutjob messianic atomic fantasys and they get to Slam their favorite hook-nosed black hats.
Syria isn't anti Iran or is it:?
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shahidiceprince
04-08-2008, 01:49 PM
That's just what the British and the Americans say to give steam to their propaganda. They are bent on propagating the idea that muslims(syrians and arabs) hate muslims(iranians)
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Izyan
04-08-2008, 02:11 PM
Originally Posted by shahidiceprince
That's just what the British and the Americans say to give steam to their propaganda. They are bent on propagating the idea that muslims(syrians and arabs) hate muslims(iranians)
Ummm no. It has been long established that Syria and Iran has had an alliance for a while now. Which is rare because here it is portrayed that the Sunni nations don't exactly care for the Shia Iran.
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Keltoi
04-08-2008, 02:25 PM
If there is a war with Iran, there won't be a lengthy occupation. It will just be destruction. Let's hope Ahmedinejad isn't that stupid.
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barney
04-08-2008, 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Syria isn't anti Iran or is it:?
Hooo, Hoo, cheers mate, I needed that laugh. Thanks . Thats made my day.:D
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Omar_Mukhtar
04-08-2008, 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by Izyan
Ummm no. It has been long established that Syria and Iran has had an alliance for a while now. Which is rare because here it is portrayed that the Sunni nations don't exactly care for the Shia Iran.
Some Muslims( Sunnis) don't consider Alawites as Sunnis or even fit into the description of Muslims. Their teachings appear close to Shia doctrines, but even they(Shias) mght dispute that Alawites can be classified as Muslims. The current president is an Alawite. So the alliance between Syria and Hamas is a bit ironic, given that they(Syrian Government) have destroyed a Muslim Brotherood uprising in the 1980s.
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Amadeus85
04-08-2008, 04:37 PM
Nowadays when one country sends a missile to territory of another, the counter missile is being sent in few seconds after that.
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Roasted Cashew
04-08-2008, 05:15 PM
My bothers and sisters in Iran. Don't worry. We will avenge your loss with our lives. Israel has seen nothing yet.

I, a Sunni Muslim love your defiance to the accursed regime of Israel, west and the Arab puppets.
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Keltoi
04-08-2008, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by hmmm5
My bothers and sisters in Iran. Don't worry. We will avenge your loss with our lives. Israel has seen nothing yet.

I, a Sunni Muslim love your defiance to the accursed regime of Israel, west and the Arab puppets.
Your brothers and sisters in Iran want a war with Israel about as much as they want a case of typhoid. Let us hope their president doesn't force anyone's hand.
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Omar_Mukhtar
04-08-2008, 05:37 PM
Would Iran attack Israel? I mean, really? This is a country that has gone out of it's way to prove that isn't building nuclear weapons........If Anything, Israel could be the first to attack.....if it suspected Iran of being close to building nuclear weapons........also word is that Iran negotiated a deal between the Shia factions and the so called government during the latest skirmishes.........
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Trumble
04-08-2008, 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by hmmm5
My bothers and sisters in Iran. Don't worry. We will avenge your loss with our lives.
I'm sure that will make them all feel much better as they stand in a radioactive wasteland watching their skin fall off in green scaly lumps. What a load of twaddle.


Originally Posted by Omar_Mukhtar
This is a country that has gone out of it's way to prove that isn't building nuclear weapons........
Talking of twaddle... :rollseyes
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AvarAllahNoor
04-08-2008, 07:19 PM
If it did happen, Isreal will have a good fight on it's hands. Being surrounded by muslim nations.
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Keltoi
04-08-2008, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
If it did happen, Isreal will have a good fight on it's hands. Being surrounded by muslim nations.
Sort of like 1967? :?
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AvarAllahNoor
04-08-2008, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Sort of like 1967? :?
:-[
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The_Prince
04-08-2008, 07:42 PM
funny how the non muslims on this forum dont condemn or speak out against such comments, yet when iranians say that IF ISRAEL OR AMERICA ATTACKS THEM they will retaliate these same none muslims come on this forum and on their media saying iran is going mad and making inciteful hate filled comments.

but when israel does it noooooooooooo no offcourse thats not hate speech or inciting, no offcourse not how could it? only when Muslims speak out its hate-filled speech.

seriously the double standards and hypocrisy is DISGUSTING.
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Omar_Mukhtar
04-08-2008, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I'm sure that will make them all feel much better as they stand in a radioactive wasteland watching their skin fall off in green scaly lumps. What a load of twaddle.




Talking of twaddle... :rollseyes
speak 4 ur self
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Izyan
04-08-2008, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Sort of like 1967? :?
Are you crazy? It'd be worst for the Arab armies. The Israeli military capabilities is 100 fold of what it was in 1967 and the Arab capabilities aren't nearly where it was.
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جوري
04-08-2008, 09:17 PM
the best army against 'Israel' won't be made of Arabs.. Arabs barely make18-20% of Muslims as is... as for laying in a 'waste land' what can I say -- how amusing it would be to see the aftermath of a so precise a nuclear holocaust that it should destory all their neighbors but spare them, given that they are right smack in the middle of it all? perhaps they can build a resistant bubble over their heads and live in the 'peace' they so desire it for centuries to come, until their 'promised one' comes and finds that fortress from my tax dollar....

I am amused though why they are going around planting غرقد Gharqad (Boxthorn) if they are so powerful....

Eh, Tomorrow isn't far behind...


cheers
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BROJX
04-08-2008, 09:56 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Reminds me of a story in the Quran
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snakelegs
04-08-2008, 10:09 PM
it would be completely insane for any country to use nukes as radiation knows no borders.
israel and the u.s. really do seem to be itching to attack iran - i find this a really scary scenario.
wouldn't it be cool if israel and iran gave up their nukes? wouldn't be cool if we all did?
dreams.
imagine wishing somebody "happy National Day of Nuclear Technology"!!!! that's quite a mouthful. make an interesting hallmark card, tho. ;D
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barney
04-08-2008, 10:12 PM
If Israel is invaded and they are losing, (in a complete turnround of history) to simultanious attacks from the Arab dictatorships surrounding them in yet another war.
They will pop their nukes.

That wont be a "Good fight on their hands"
Conventionally it would be a fair fight, the Arab world against the Tiny Israeli nation.
But if it did turn bad,(unlikely based on the muppetry of the Arab armies) theres no fairness. Simply the end of the middle east as a human inhabited area.
Sacred mosque sites, churches and temples. All reduced to dust.
Hmmm.
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AntiKarateKid
04-08-2008, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by barney
If Israel is invaded and they are losing, (in a complete turnround of history) to simultanious attacks from the Arab dictatorships surrounding them in yet another war.
They will pop their nukes.

That wont be a "Good fight on their hands"
Conventionally it would be a fair fight, the Arab world against the Tiny Israeli nation.
But if it did turn bad,(unlikely based on the muppetry of the Arab armies) theres no fairness. Simply the end of the middle east as a human inhabited area.
Sacred mosque sites, churches and temples. All reduced to dust.
Hmmm.
Hah. The day Israel destroys even a single sacred mosque will be its last day. They wouldn't be facing just a few nations, that is an attack on a religion, a religion of over a billion. That day, even I would be forced to donn the weapons of armed resistance.

If Israel destroyed sacred Hindu, Sikh, or Christian sites, I would expect the same angry resistance.

Like we have discussed in may many threats. Islam is not about violence. Quite the contrary. BUT when Israel opens a war on our religion. That shifts our obligatory Jihad from being verbal and scholarly resistance to actual armed resistance.

Am I right brothers and sisters?
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barney
04-08-2008, 10:42 PM
I think if you blew up any christian site youd get a massive shrug of the shoulders and a "Heh...its only a few bricks...hope nobody was hurt"
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جوري
04-09-2008, 12:06 AM
lol.. yeah christians are gnostics like that.. just shug it off :X.. let's try it for the Sagrada Familia first and see how well that takes before going for the vatican! :rollseyes

cheers
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barney
04-09-2008, 12:13 AM
Yeah. Ok try it.
Canterbury and St Pauls cathederal were bombed by the Krauts in 1940. No great shakes.

What I'm getting at is the west dosnt give a monkeys about religion these days, and thos who do are fast losing ground in the face of facts.
They wont bother about a few buidings.
Ask any christian you like. go on, fire away, take a survay. Ask them what they would rather see destroyed.
A Holy Christian Relic or a human life.

Have fun. The survay will never happen but meh.
I havnt much time for christians faith, but they value life over stones.
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جوري
04-09-2008, 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Yeah. Ok try it.
Canterbury and St Pauls cathederal were bombed by the Krauts in 1940. No great shakes.

What I'm getting at is the west dosnt give a monkeys about religion these days, and thos who do are fast losing ground in the face of facts.
They wont bother about a few buidings.
Ask any christian you like. go on, fire away, take a survay. Ask them what they would rather see destroyed.
A Holy Christian Relic or a human life.

Have fun. The survay will never happen but meh.
I havnt much time for christians faith, but they value life over stones.
I don't doubt what you are saying... don't need to take a survey.. I guess I just don't give a flying fig... America is still fairly conservative compared to the cesspool of moral degeneracy that is Europe, but I hear you and I am not surprised... there is something about the ManGod who took a break from the universe to show up in Nazareth that is just so anticlimactic I can't get myself to be excited about it... can't imagine anyone else either... I can see why it is all about the here and now, pretty colored eggs and xmas gifts.. if Tommaso di Ser Giovanni di Mone were alive today, modern xtianity would have been better immortalized into a great painting...

cheers
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barney
04-09-2008, 12:27 AM
Gahhgh! I just posted a application for a survay darn it!

It was a brilliant one!

Anyway, what happened to the thread where i was going to pull my trump card out! It freaking vanished!

Anyway, the secular west wouldnt turn a hair at Israels temples being destroyed.
A mild number of Israeli's would , but thats a matter of national pride rather than a feeling that the antichrist wont have anywhere to spawn.

If the al aqsar mosque was demolished, and I fervently hope it wont be, then we can kiss goodbye to the human race.
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جوري
04-09-2008, 12:33 AM
is al 'aqsar' as you put it an intended pun? Never mind...
according with Islamic signs of the end 'NO-- I don't have scientific evidence' for this, an Abyssinian leader with thin shins will destroy the Ka'bah , Medina will be abandoned save for howling animals while al-aqsa will be restituted!
yes indeed great wars will break out...

cheers
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Roasted Cashew
04-09-2008, 04:07 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I'm sure that will make them all feel much better as they stand in a radioactive wasteland watching their skin fall off in green scaly lumps. What a load of twaddle.




Talking of twaddle... :rollseyes

What does twaddle mean?
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Roasted Cashew
04-09-2008, 04:11 AM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
funny how the non muslims on this forum dont condemn or speak out against such comments, yet when iranians say that IF ISRAEL OR AMERICA ATTACKS THEM they will retaliate these same none muslims come on this forum and on their media saying iran is going mad and making inciteful hate filled comments.

but when israel does it noooooooooooo no offcourse thats not hate speech or inciting, no offcourse not how could it? only when Muslims speak out its hate-filled speech.

seriously the double standards and hypocrisy is DISGUSTING.
What's new here? Most of them are hypocrites and disgusting. Why you act surprised?
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Roasted Cashew
04-09-2008, 04:13 AM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Hah. The day Israel destroys even a single sacred mosque will be its last day.
BUT when Israel opens a war on our religion. That shifts our obligatory Jihad from being verbal and scholarly resistance to actual armed resistance.

Am I right brothers and sisters?
You are 100% spot on. Even me who would hardly survive a punch will not back off.
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ahsan28
04-09-2008, 07:45 AM
Nothing would happen. The latest is the revelation in a Swiss newspaper that Israel imports Iranian oil on a large scale even though contacts with Iran and purchasing of its products are officially boycotted by Israel. Israel gets around the boycott by having the oil delivered via Europe. The Iranian oil is liked in Israel because its quality is better than other crude oils :D
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pauper
04-09-2008, 08:01 AM
If Israel gets hit by a Nuke

Palestine , Lebanon , Syria, Jordan are all nuked too, Unless they gonna use Mini Missiles :)

Israel cant Nuke its Neighbors either, it'll backfire for sure .
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Keltoi
04-09-2008, 11:14 AM
The only possible scenarios in which Israel would even consider using nuclear weapons:

1. Iran has already built them and all intelligence points to the fact that they are going to use them against Israel, or have already pushed the button.

2. The surrounding Arab countries discover time travel and skip to the future in order to create a robot super-force armed with laser cannons and which have the ability to transform into fantastical civilian vehicles.

Otherwise they just drop conventional bombs for a few days.
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Izyan
04-09-2008, 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
I don't doubt what you are saying... don't need to take a survey.. I guess I just don't give a flying fig... America is still fairly conservative compared to the cesspool of moral degeneracy that is Europe, but I hear you and I am not surprised... there is something about the ManGod who took a break from the universe to show up in Nazareth that is just so anticlimactic I can't get myself to be excited about it... can't imagine anyone else either... I can see why it is all about the here and now, pretty colored eggs and xmas gifts.. if Tommaso di Ser Giovanni di Mone were alive today, modern xtianity would have been better immortalized into a great painting...

cheers
For a group of people that rag on Islam being disrespect there's an awful lot of disrespect for the beliefs of Christians.
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جوري
04-09-2008, 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by Izyan
For a group of people that rag on Islam being disrespect there's an awful lot of disrespect for the beliefs of Christians.
I have no clue, as to what it is, you are trying to allege here?

cheers
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Muezzin
04-09-2008, 02:54 PM
Guys. Topic. Please.
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AvarAllahNoor
04-09-2008, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Hah. The day Israel destroys even a single sacred mosque will be its last day. They wouldn't be facing just a few nations, that is an attack on a religion, a religion of over a billion. That day, even I would be forced to donn the weapons of armed resistance.

If Israel destroyed sacred Hindu, Sikh, or Christian sites, I would expect the same angry resistance.

Like we have discussed in may many threats. Islam is not about violence. Quite the contrary. BUT when Israel opens a war on our religion. That shifts our obligatory Jihad from being verbal and scholarly resistance to actual armed resistance.

Am I right brothers and sisters?
It's just to do this, It's like a country is attacked, you set the army loose! Same goes for religious conflicts. Hindu Gov launched an attack on the Akal Tahkt, Sikh Parliment launched near the Golden Temple in Amritsar. indira gandhi payed with her life!

Snake, I don't think we should give up our nukes. We need them, and any country that desires them, well so be it in my opnion! :D
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barney
04-09-2008, 04:15 PM
Ivehadmedinnerdad hasnt actually got em yet, but instead of saying "We will use the nuclear capabilitys to defend our nation as a last resort of like-attack from our enemies"
He simply cackles a bit, threatens to wipe Israel off the map, then checks on his pool of sharks.
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AvarAllahNoor
04-09-2008, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi

Otherwise they just drop conventional bombs for a few days.
And that'll settle the matter do you think?
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AvarAllahNoor
04-09-2008, 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Ivehadmedinnerdad hasnt actually got em yet, but instead of saying "We will use the nuclear capabilitys to defend our nation as a last resort of like-attack from our enemies"
He simply cackles a bit, threatens to wipe Israel off the map, then checks on his pool of sharks.
Can you read Farsi? If so, can you translate what Ahmedinjad actually said? Because waht you read (and the rest) was a biased translation by the yanks! - Find me the exact line where he states he'll wipe ISREAL off the map!

I'll be here in the corner sipping my tea :D
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AntiKarateKid
04-09-2008, 04:44 PM
Assumming that even if he did say that he was going to wipe Israel off the map... not to sound childish but Jews do say worse... Muslims are coccroaches etc,

At least we have an obligation to respect their religion.
The Jewish propaganda really surprises me. For a people so proud of their history, it amazes me that they could equate Muslims with their ultimate enemies. Didnt Muslim rulers acccept Jews into their countries while CHristians persecuted them? We were the ones who gave them homes. We, unlike the Nazis never tried to exterminate them. Yet here we are. Being anti- israeli, a county that is not even supposed to exist due to the status of Jews being "exiled in their own Torah, is suddenly anti semitic. ANd Muslims are suddenly the root of all evil. Ironic.


Case in point. I asked a rabbi straight up if Israel is supposed to exist according to the Torah. HE said not really but there is nothing that Jews can do now except ait for the messaih. I was dumbfounded.


" Hey guys lets steal this land for false religious reasons and refuse to negotiate until our messiah comes... oh and Muslims are evil"

R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D, felt like roughing taht guy up i swear...
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AvarAllahNoor
04-09-2008, 04:47 PM
^^ He said ZIONISTS, not Isrealis! - That's where the 'error' is made, if in fact it was an error.
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AvarAllahNoor
04-09-2008, 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by hmmm5
What does twaddle mean?
Rubbish, Nonsense. ''A Load Of Twaddle''
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ahsan28
04-09-2008, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Hah. The day Israel destroys even a single sacred mosque will be its last day.
I wish it would have the case, but in reality we have already seen massive bombardment of shiite holy shrines in Iraq by coalition forces and suprisingly Iran and Syria didn't react, since both were busy consolidating their gains after Saddam Regime.

As of today, I don't expect any war between Iran and Israel. What we are witnessing is exchange of political statements only.
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AntiKarateKid
04-09-2008, 04:58 PM
Muslim on Muslim violence is wierdly less of a powerderkeg as Israel destroying shrines.

When an outsider destroyes something sacred to shiites and sunnis, it is all going down from there. Besides compare the current violence in Iraq, only Muslim against Muslim, what would hold us back against non Muslims if they did commit such aggression?
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ahsan28
04-09-2008, 05:34 PM
There will be no war between Israel and Iran. Israel alone can't afford to launch a full scale offensive against Iran w/o US asistance. The US is not in a position to make available resources for another war, being already in a messed up situation in Iraq and Afghanistan. Despite repeated requests from field commanders, they couldn't meet the requirements in Afghanistan. For attacking Iran, they have to pull out considerable forces from Iraq, which they can't afford. Despite all that, if they still decide to go over Iran, that would be a suicidal mission, keeping in view pro-Iran govts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their bases, especially in Iraq would be extremely vulnerable.

The existing state of US economy is bleak, in such situation how can they think of initiating another war?
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Trumble
04-09-2008, 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by ahsan28
I wish it would have the case, but in reality we have already seen massive bombardment of shiite holy shrines in Iraq by coalition forces and suprisingly Iran and Syria didn't react, since both were busy consolidating their gains after Saddam Regime.
I suspect it was far more to do with the fact that such "massive bombardment" of Shi'ite holy shrines "by coalition forces" is a total fantasy.
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Keltoi
04-09-2008, 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
And that'll settle the matter do you think?
Settle the matter? For all intents and purposes...meaning Iran's ability to threaten Israel by conventional military means..plus the country of Iran would be decimated, in terms of both the economy and the infrastructure. Could Iran send some terrorist out to try to blow stuff up...of course. That is expected.
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Roasted Cashew
04-10-2008, 02:18 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Ivehadmedinnerdad hasnt actually got em yet, but instead of saying "We will use the nuclear capabilitys to defend our nation as a last resort of like-attack from our enemies"
He simply cackles a bit, threatens to wipe Israel off the map, then checks on his pool of sharks.
PROOF IT! I would have to say our mainstream media has done a great job in brainwashing people. Hurray to Yanks.

Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the map."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mScWWtRfGQ

Rabbi Weiss clarifies media lies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQY60tN9yL8
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shahidiceprince
04-13-2008, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by Izyan
Ummm no. It has been long established that Syria and Iran has had an alliance for a while now. Which is rare because here it is portrayed that the Sunni nations don't exactly care for the Shia Iran.
Arab was against Iran for some reasons, but only before 1980. Now, Iran is seen as a pillar of resistance against US & Co. by the Arabs.
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جوري
04-13-2008, 02:07 PM
I used to think highly of Iran.. but most of the Iranians I have met, leave very little to be desired.. they have never gotten over their empire of their pagan practices.. just recently I have seen a bunch of 'Muslim' iranians celebrate their pagan new year which conincided with easter.. they still speak of Muslims as if they've invaded and pillaged them instead of bringing them enlightenment and monotheism..mind you this is by the so-called Muslims themseleves... I was/am very disappointed.. I hope these were isolated cases of indulgent Iranians outside of Iran, but for some reason I doubt it...
At this stage I'll state, that only Allah swt knows whom his righteous servants are.. and I don't believe any thing done for show with an overt of covert agenda will deflect from that...
Sobhan Allah..

:w:
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Amadeus85
04-13-2008, 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
I used to think highly of Iran.. but most of the Iranians I have met, leave very little to be desired.. they have never gotten over their empire of their pagan practices.. just recently I have seen a bunch of 'Muslim' iranians celebrate their pagan new year which conincided with easter.. they still speak of Muslims as if they've invaded and pillaged them instead of bringing them enlightenment and monotheism..mind you this is by the so-called Muslims themseleves... I was/am very disappointed.. I hope these were isolated cases of indulgent Iranians outside of Iran, but for some reason I doubt it...
At this stage I'll state, that only Allah swt knows whom his righteous servants are.. and I don't believe any thing done for show with an overt of covert agenda will deflect from that...
Sobhan Allah..

:w:
Eve Persephone I think that it has soemthing to do with the nature of arabic/islamic conquest that hapenned to Iran. As religion islam spread peacefully in Maghreb and for exmaple Indonesia/Malaysia, muslims there dont have such anti-arabic sentiments. But in Iran it wasnt just peacefully as i read. Besides, Persians had great civilization since thousands years ago, and I guess that they must have had some inventions and contributions before the era of Arabs' appearence. This is one of the reason why they decided to follow shiism, to dividee themselves form the rest of Middle East.
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Roasted Cashew
04-13-2008, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
But in Iran it wasnt just peacefully as i read.
Remember, it's called Arab Conquests not Islamic conquests. Islam spread through Arab conquests just like Christianity spread thorough European colonization in some areas.
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ahsan28
04-13-2008, 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by shahidiceprince
Arab was against Iran for some reasons, but only before 1980. Now, Iran is seen as a pillar of resistance against US & Co. by the Arabs.
We have pro-Iran govts in Iraq and Afghanistan with US consent.
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جوري
04-13-2008, 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Eve Persephone I think that it has soemthing to do with the nature of arabic/islamic conquest that hapenned to Iran. As religion islam spread peacefully in Maghreb and for exmaple Indonesia/Malaysia, muslims there dont have such anti-arabic sentiments. But in Iran it wasnt just peacefully as i read. Besides, Persians had great civilization since thousands years ago, and I guess that they must have had some inventions and contributions before the era of Arabs' appearence. This is one of the reason why they decided to follow shiism, to dividee themselves form the rest of Middle East.
Has to do with their nature more than anything...Egypt, Iraq, Samaria, Mesopotamia etc etc all had great civilization that extended for centuries, and they have welcomed Islam with open arms.. being from that part of the world and having many Iranian friends, I can see great disparity on how Iranians practice religion vs. their middle eastern counterparts.. even if I find the most religious and correctly practicin to be reverts, there is something essential that is missing in Iranians.. I am not knocking Iran or Iranians down... the mere fact that they practice Islam slightly askew (shiites) is in and of itself very telling ..

peace
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barney
04-14-2008, 12:15 AM
Ivehadmedinnerdad diddnt say "wipe israel off the map", he simply agrees with that notion and the Ayatolla saying it.
Its like Hitler saying "Exterminate the jews" and a BNP facist agreeing with it.
I wouldnt give Hitler nukes and i wouldnt give the BNP them either.
I can see irans need for fuel for power stations. it must be hard being so fuel starved and desperate for some way to fuel their need for electrical power. If only someone could invent something like oil powered stations they could use Oil, they have a splash of that stuff lying about.

From Wiki.

Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website.[11]

The translation presented by IRIB has been challenged by Mr. Arash Norouzi, who proposes that the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime and Zionists occupying Jerusalem". However, the Iatollah did say that Isreael should be wiped off the map and Ahmadinejad did agree with this sentiment. He says that the Iranian government News Agency IRIB/IRNA translation is the source of the myth:

One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising. The inflammatory 'wiped off the map' quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy
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Roasted Cashew
04-14-2008, 11:22 AM
^When did the Ayatollah said that? Any source. This is getting interesting.
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Omar_Mukhtar
04-14-2008, 12:25 PM
I suppose Iran's weapons are so sophisticated they would be able to hit "Israel" and "Zionists, whilst missing the Palestinians Territories and more importantly the blessed Mosque?
Reply

MTAFFI
04-14-2008, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by ahsan28
There will be no war between Israel and Iran. Israel alone can't afford to launch a full scale offensive against Iran w/o US asistance. The US is not in a position to make available resources for another war, being already in a messed up situation in Iraq and Afghanistan. Despite repeated requests from field commanders, they couldn't meet the requirements in Afghanistan. For attacking Iran, they have to pull out considerable forces from Iraq, which they can't afford. Despite all that, if they still decide to go over Iran, that would be a suicidal mission, keeping in view pro-Iran govts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their bases, especially in Iraq would be extremely vulnerable.

The existing state of US economy is bleak, in such situation how can they think of initiating another war?
So you think the US "military" as a whole is over extended in Iraq? I think that is a grave miscalculation. The US ground troops (mainly the marines) are over extended in the M.E. however dont forget that we have a generally unused Navy and Airforce that accounts for more than half of the US military power, many of whom happen to be on battle carriers in the region, take note that this is not by coincidence. The US or Israel would not invade Iran by ground, Iran would be attacked with a massive air operation. They would lose and while they may succeed in launching attacks of their own on US bases in the region (Iraq, Afghan and embassies) their ultimate result would be the same as the others, within a couple days their military and government would disband and run, and hope for the air assault to stop, they would then band together in militias and wait for a ground assault that wouldnt ever come because no one is there to remove a dictator or establish anything in their country. Air raids may continue for a couple weeks destroying power stations, nuclear installations, government buildings, water supplies, roads and bridges in order to give the Iranians something better to do than move their jaws in an inadequate attempt to scare or threaten the west.

It is telling how so many people seem to be hoping for an "Iran goes to war with the West" scenario.. You know, Iraq used to be the pillar of military prowess in the region, what happened to them? All of their radar and anti aircraft and their army that was always televised performing anti american and anti western sentiments. It took all of a week to destroy their government, military and infrastructure and then a couple more years to hang their leader in a basement.

In my opinion, Muslims need to concentrate more on their faith rather than what middle eastern country is going to try the west next. With all of the corrupt governments in the middle east what makes any of us think that Allah will protect them anyways? IMO we need to put our trust and faith in Allah, follow our religion correctly and the rest will fall into place accordingly. Iran and Israel going to war doesnt seem to me like a path to the ultimate destination.
Reply

Izyan
04-14-2008, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Assumming that even if he did say that he was going to wipe Israel off the map... not to sound childish but Jews do say worse... Muslims are coccroaches etc,

At least we have an obligation to respect their religion.
The Jewish propaganda really surprises me. For a people so proud of their history, it amazes me that they could equate Muslims with their ultimate enemies. Didnt Muslim rulers acccept Jews into their countries while CHristians persecuted them? We were the ones who gave them homes. We, unlike the Nazis never tried to exterminate them. Yet here we are. Being anti- israeli, a county that is not even supposed to exist due to the status of Jews being "exiled in their own Torah, is suddenly anti semitic. ANd Muslims are suddenly the root of all evil. Ironic.


Case in point. I asked a rabbi straight up if Israel is supposed to exist according to the Torah. HE said not really but there is nothing that Jews can do now except ait for the messaih. I was dumbfounded.


" Hey guys lets steal this land for false religious reasons and refuse to negotiate until our messiah comes... oh and Muslims are evil"

R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D, felt like roughing taht guy up i swear...
This entire post is idiotic and hate filled.
Reply

Izyan
04-14-2008, 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by shahidiceprince
Arab was against Iran for some reasons, but only before 1980. Now, Iran is seen as a pillar of resistance against US & Co. by the Arabs.
Yeah tell my Sunni relatives in Iraq that
Reply

ahsan28
04-14-2008, 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
So you think the US "military" as a whole is over extended in Iraq? I think that is a grave miscalculation. The US ground troops (mainly the marines) are over extended in the M.E. however dont forget that we have a generally unused Navy and Airforce that accounts for more than half of the US military power, many of whom happen to be on battle carriers in the region, take note that this is not by coincidence. The US or Israel would not invade Iran by ground, Iran would be attacked with a massive air operation. They would lose and while they may succeed in launching attacks of their own on US bases in the region (Iraq, Afghan and embassies) their ultimate result would be the same as the others, within a couple days their military and government would disband and run, and hope for the air assault to stop, they would then band together in militias and wait for a ground assault that wouldnt ever come because no one is there to remove a dictator or establish anything in their country. Air raids may continue for a couple weeks destroying power stations, nuclear installations, government buildings, water supplies, roads and bridges in order to give the Iranians something better to do than move their jaws in an inadequate attempt to scare or threaten the west.

It is telling how so many people seem to be hoping for an "Iran goes to war with the West" scenario.. You know, Iraq used to be the pillar of military prowess in the region, what happened to them? All of their radar and anti aircraft and their army that was always televised performing anti american and anti western sentiments. It took all of a week to destroy their government, military and infrastructure and then a couple more years to hang their leader in a basement.

In my opinion, Muslims need to concentrate more on their faith rather than what middle eastern country is going to try the west next. With all of the corrupt governments in the middle east what makes any of us think that Allah will protect them anyways? IMO we need to put our trust and faith in Allah, follow our religion correctly and the rest will fall into place accordingly. Iran and Israel going to war doesnt seem to me like a path to the ultimate destination.
I agree with you mostly. I actually don't waste my time discussing US+Israel VS Iran scenerio being one of the jokes going on all around. Its part of a planned agenda to make people believe that Iran is resisting western powers on behalf of Muslim world. So far Iranians have done nothing except issuing anti-US and anti-Israel political statements, in order to get popular support, which are expected to be continued in future as well.
Reply

MTAFFI
04-14-2008, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by ahsan28
I agree with you mostly. I actually don't waste my time discussing US+Israel VS Iran scenerio being one of the jokes going on all around. Its part of a planned agenda to make people believe that Iran is resisting western powers on behalf of Muslim world. So far Iranians have done nothing except issuing anti-US and anti-Israel political statements, in order to get popular support, which are expected to be continued in future as well.
I would agree with you, funny I just got done reading this article

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...me-808647.html
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aadil77
04-14-2008, 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
is al 'aqsar' as you put it an intended pun? Never mind...
according with Islamic signs of the end 'NO-- I don't have scientific evidence' for this, an Abyssinian leader with thin shins will destroy the Ka'bah , Medina will be abandoned save for howling animals while al-aqsa will be restituted!
yes indeed great wars will break out...

cheers
I thought that the Kaabah can never be destroyed and that makaah will be a safe haven from many signs of the end, please give evidence
Reply

جوري
04-14-2008, 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
I thought that the Kaabah can never be destroyed and that makaah will be a safe haven from many signs of the end, please give evidence
it is indeed insha'Allah a safe haven akhi so long as there is Islam in the world.. but I am talking about when religion will be lifted from the world and people will be copulating like donkeys on the street and no one will know what the word Allah means.. this is after the gentle wind takes the souls of all the believers..

I am not a scholar akhi, so Allah knows best.. I am only relaying what I have read..

Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can shed light on this..

:w:
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barney
04-14-2008, 06:57 PM
The Iranians, like the Jucheists steadily feed a fantasy drip to the world about a planned US invasion.
The US Invasion dosnt happen.
Hence:
1) The US is scared.
2)The US is overstreched.
3) The dear leader's wise guidance and brilliant diplomacy is staving off the babyeaters for another year. God be praised.
4)The US has learnt from its harsh lesson in Iraq that oil grabbing capitalist imperial conqests are only repaid with shame defeat and endless blood, much to their endless humiliation and the glory of the free Iraqi people. Saddam will rise again to lead his beloved children to victory and peace.
5) The massive and total naval victory, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...3/niraq123.xml shows the mighty power of Iran's military megastrength, which humbles the feeble and girlish US coward-incompetants with their dismal Kuffar inspired so-called-technology. This has driven the Butchers to re-appraise their warmongering.
6) The US was never coming in the first place.
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mediadave
04-14-2008, 10:10 PM
I used to think highly of Iran.. but most of the Iranians I have met, leave very little to be desired.. they have never gotten over their empire of their pagan practices.. just recently I have seen a bunch of 'Muslim' iranians celebrate their pagan new year which conincided with easter.. they still speak of Muslims as if they've invaded and pillaged them instead of bringing them enlightenment and monotheism..mind you this is by the so-called Muslims themseleves... I was/am very disappointed.. I hope these were isolated cases of indulgent Iranians outside of Iran, but for some reason I doubt it...
I date a (Nonreligious) Iranian girl, and have met some of her friends, and there is certainly a greater nationalism there that I haven't really seen in other nationalities. I wouldn't say they were anti Islam, but they generally are anti Arab. I think some of the practices of Shia Islam and the Iranian practice of it is a more or less delibrate attempt to be as different as possible to Arab ****** Sunnism. (I think of Shia's as the Catholics of islam)

The last Shah of course tried to revive Emperor worship and openly declared a return to the old days, and was actually quite popular for it (He became unpopular when he dismally failed to follow through).
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mediadave
04-14-2008, 10:11 PM
Interesting. the official state religion of Saudi Arabia is censored. Clearly I've missed something here...
Reply

جوري
04-14-2008, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by mediadave
I date a (Nonreligious) Iranian girl, and have met some of her friends, and there is certainly a greater nationalism there that I haven't really seen in other nationalities. I wouldn't say they were anti Islam, but they generally are anti Arab. I think some of the practices of Shia Islam and the Iranian practice of it is a more or less delibrate attempt to be as different as possible to Arab ****** Sunnism. (I think of Shia's as the Catholics of islam)

The last Shah of course tried to revive Emperor worship and openly declared a return to the old days, and was actually quite popular for it (He became unpopular when he dismally failed to follow through).
I'll agree to the assimilation of shiites to catholics... they are indeed into funky irreligious paintings and sanctifying various Muslims, like al 7asan wal7osyn almost to God like status.. shiites in and of themselves are divided into many sects from almost those close enough to sunnis, to ones who deem ali ibn abi talib God himself, sort of like the christians have done with Jesus...

I'll assume the asterisked portion is in reference to w a h a b b i or s a l a f i? I'd personally refrain from using terms you are not in full mastery of in terms of implication or significance... I dislike nothing more than ignorance save for someone who feigns knowledge...

cheers
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mediadave
04-14-2008, 10:23 PM
I'd personally refrain from using terms you are not in full mastery of in terms of implication or significance... I dislike nothing more than ignorance save for someone who feigns knowledge...
I'll go along with that.
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barney
04-14-2008, 10:52 PM
I feign knowlage!
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جوري
04-14-2008, 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by barney
I feign knowlage!
we know!
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Izyan
04-15-2008, 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
I'll agree to the assimilation of shiites to catholics... they are indeed into funky irreligious paintings and sanctifying various Muslims, like al 7asan wal7osyn almost to God like status.. shiites in and of themselves are divided into many sects from almost those close enough to sunnis, to ones who deem ali ibn abi talib God himself, sort of like the christians have done with Jesus...

I'll assume the asterisked portion is in reference to w a h a b b i or s a l a f i? I'd personally refrain from using terms you are not in full mastery of in terms of implication or significance... I dislike nothing more than ignorance save for someone who feigns knowledge...

cheers
This read as a slag towards shiites. That is a big no no around here. They are muslims and should be respected as such.
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ahsan28
04-15-2008, 01:32 PM
Originally Posted by Izyan
This read as a slag towards shiites. That is a big no no around here. They are muslims and should be respected as such.
The post doesn't contain the element of disrespect.

Respect should not be translated as an obligation for us to agree with Iran's political and religious policies.
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Izyan
04-15-2008, 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by ahsan28
The post doesn't contain the element of disrespect.

Respect should not be translated as an obligation for us to agree with Iran's political and religious policies.
they are indeed into funky irreligious paintings and sanctifying various Muslims, like al 7asan wal7osyn almost to God like status.. shiites in and of themselves are divided into many sects from almost those close enough to sunnis, to ones who deem ali ibn abi talib God himself, sort of like the christians have done with Jesus...

I sensed a lot of cynisism in this quote. Almost dismissing Shia as a silly little cult.
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ahsan28
04-15-2008, 02:12 PM
That may be your personal opinion but frankly speaking, Iran's political policies are governed by religious considerations, something which can't be accepted by mainstream Muslims. You may read the famous speeches by Khomeini to understand their mindset.
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MTAFFI
04-15-2008, 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by ahsan28
The post doesn't contain the element of disrespect.

Respect should not be translated as an obligation for us to agree with Iran's political and religious policies.
I agree 100%, respect is not an obligation, it is something that should be earned through words and actions.
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Keltoi
04-15-2008, 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
I agree 100%, respect is not an obligation, it is something that should be earned through words and actions.
Just to play Devil's advocate...if respect is not an obligation, why should those Danish cartoonists censor themselves out of basic respect? Why shouldn't Wilder put out his film?

I couldn't count how many times many on this board have stated those cartoons and the film shouldn't have been written out of basic respect for another people's faith.

I won't go so far as to cry "hypocrisy", but it is definitely in the same time zone.
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Muezzin
04-15-2008, 03:24 PM
Aaaaaaaaaaand we're veering off the topic. Again.

Since this thread is now a week old, and people aren't really contributing anything to move the discussion forward (since there doesn't seem to be anything left to discuss), the thread has qualified for lockage.

Is that a word? Never mind.
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NoName55
04-15-2008, 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by Izyan
This read as a slag towards shiites. That is a big no no around here. They are muslims and should be respected as such.
once upon a time, there wer LIStaff who would not have tolerated promtion of moshriks like Rafidah, here but alas! no more. Now the mask of LIStaff is used by some mods to ban Muslims for objecting to be counted with worshipers of Hazraat Ali & Hussain (may Allah be pleased with them both).
Reply

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