Life and Property

[barney]

Hi.
A earlier post prompted me to post this.

If there was an unaltrable choice between choosing between the death of a human and the destruction of the most sacred building to your religion, Would you prefer the building to be saved?

[------]

:salamext:

Is this a trick question? :mmokay:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Hey i havent voted yet but islaam teaches that the blood of a muslim is more valuable then the world and everything in it so for my muslims i would sacrifice every building on this world as even the ka'ba is less sacred then the life of a muslim.



now you will ask what about a non-muslim,

well become a muslim and i'll also rather have you saved :D

[------]

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[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
well,I think the kabaa is the most scared buliding, since we pray towards it, and circumbulate it etc, so id rahter a person die...having said that though, if the ka'baa was destroyed, wouldnt we just have to pray, circumlate it as if it were still there
hmmmm...
id presonally refer this this to a scholar actually...

[barney]

:salamext:

Is this a trick question? :mmokay:

Nope its a serious question.:)
The building involved wouldbe the Kaaba, the Vatican, The Temple of the mount, an atheists Pub. That sort of building.

The Human being involved would be an innocent child.
Theres no way to save both. One of them has to go.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ i would save an innocent child over the ka'ba.

the ka'ba has been levelled and rebuilt many times anyway, and also im sure the life of a child is greater. im going to vote now :)


*voted no im muslim*

[Muslim Knight]

A sacred building destroyed can always be rebuilt by the people. Like the Jewish Temple Mount or the Kaaba. However, a life lost can never be returned. And Islamic teaching commands preservation of life and not to take life unless with right (the lives of convicted murderers, for example.)

So between a human life and a sacred building, I would choose to save a human life.

[jzcasejz]

Hey i havent voted yet but islaam teaches that the blood of a muslim is more valuable then the world and everything in it

Spot on. :bravo:

[barney]

I diddnt say the child was muslim. :D

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ but his innocent :p as all children generally are :)

[------]

:salamext:

Every child is born a Muslim :)

[barney]

:salamext:

Every child is born a Muslim :)

:rollseyes

[Keltoi]

The answer is an obvious no...Christ never mentioned a structure as being sacred, much less worth more than a human life.

[FatimaAsSideqah]

Greetings.

I have voted no.

[------]

:rollseyes

:salamext:

Don't u roll ur eyes at me lol...

The Prophet Muhammad said, "No baby is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist."
(Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)

:D

[jzcasejz]

:salamext:

Every child is born a Muslim :)

Slightly off-topic (sorry): Regarding that, a Brother coincidently posted something about this statement on another forum just the other day:

I don't think anyone believes that the child is born a Muslim in a fiqhi sense, that if he/she dies, janaza is prayed over him, etc...

What people mean is that a child is born on his fitra, recognising Allah as the only Lord and the only one deserving of worship. Meaning, he does not have to contemplate deeply on the emergence of the creation to prove the existence of a creator. He simply believes in a deity from birth. This does not necessarily mean that he is a Muslim in fiqhi sense.

So whilst it is good to clarify that a child is not born a Muslim in fiqhi sense, it is also important to clarify that the child is actually born on tawheed, such that he does not need to reason the way the mutakallimun want him to, to discern God's existence.

[------]

:salamext:

^ One step ahead of u, check post above urs :D

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ bro it is clearly established that every child is born a muslim upon islaam. later the society and environment brings them into shirk which leads them astray...

[Gator]

Voted no, though it does kinda depend upon the person. ;)


(Plus I hadn't read that a Pub could be one of the targets, so that might change things as well. :))

[jzcasejz]

^ bro it is clearly established that every child is born a muslim upon islaam. later the society and environment brings them into shirk which leads them astray...

But I don't see that as contradicting what I posted though?

Anyways, we're going horribly off-topic. :omg:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ oh lol sory i jus re-read yours.


yeah it kinda states the obvious though :D mashaAllaah :)

[Ebtisweetsam]

Nope its a serious question.:)
an atheists Pub. That sort of building.

The Human being involved would be an innocent child.
Theres no way to save both. One of them has to go.

Id choose the obvious choice, and most humane one..........












.... the pub :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[barney]

Id choose the obvious choice, and most humane one..........












.... the pub :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Nahh! You cant ! Your not atheist!:D
You have to choose between the most holy place to your religion, Al-aqsar/ kabaa, or the single human life.

[Ads786]

theres no doubt about it, save the child

[Zahrah-A-O]

I wud save a human life! Buildings are important.. but what use wud they be if no1 was in there 2 pray in them!!

btw.. isnt every baby born muslim? isnt that why when sum1 embrases Islam they called them a revert? :S

[Zahrah-A-O]

*CALL lol sorry!

[snakelegs]

Hi.
A earlier post prompted me to post this.

If there was an unaltrable choice between choosing between the death of a human and the destruction of the most sacred building to your religion, Would you prefer the building to be saved?

i didn't vote - how can an agnostic or an atheist participate? we ain't got no sacred buildings! ;D

[glo]

Hi.
Would you prefer the building to be saved?

No, buildings are meaningless.
God lives in us, not in man-made buildings.

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? (1Corinthians)

[glo]

(Plus I hadn't read that a Pub could be one of the targets, so that might change things as well. :))

Is the pub the sacred building of your choice, Gator? :D

[barney]

It's quite heartneing to see the results so far.

I had been wondering about that for a while after watching a lot of the Palastinian Children's show, Pioneers of Tommorow, where all the kids are cheering that they'll die for the sake of al-aqsar.
I assumed that it must be fairly important, but its nice to see sanity is mostly prevailing! :D

[Mikayeel]

Voted a no!, A building can be rebuild, a life can also be remade, but it wont!

[Whatsthepoint]

Voted no, obviously.
However, there's children dying for no reason all the time, the child in question would at least die for something..

[Ebtisweetsam]

It's quite heartneing to see the results so far.

I had been wondering about that for a while after watching a lot of the Palastinian Children's show, Pioneers of Tommorow, where all the kids are cheering that they'll die for the sake of al-aqsar.
I assumed that it must be fairly important, but its nice to see sanity is mostly prevailing! :D

Ahh, now i can see what ur getting at Barns! Well see, they mean their land, struggling to live in it, have their freedom. When they mean dying for it, it doesnt mean they'd get their bro or sis and put em in front of a jewish army and let them get shot.

[crayon]

A human life is more valuable than any building out there.

[Pygoscelis]

So... what if it isn't an innocent child?

What if it is a person from a competing religion (if you're a muslim say its a jew). What if its an atheist. What if its somebody who isn't so innocent, say a thief or an adulterer?

Does the person involved matter in your decision? Or is a human life a human life, full stop?

[Keltoi]

So... what if it isn't an innocent child?

What if it is a person from a competing religion (if you're a muslim say its a jew). What if its an atheist. What if its somebody who isn't so innocent, say a thief or an adulterer?

Does the person involved matter in your decision? Or is a human life a human life, full stop?

Speaking for myself, it doesn't matter whether the individual is a saint or not, if you choose a structure over a human life it would stain that structure anyway. Too many holy structures, especially in Jerusalem, have been stained with centuries of blood.

[AntiKarateKid]

A human life is more valuable than any building out there.

If a person wanted to try and attack a holy place of ours, any Muslim we know would try and save that building. DOn't forget our sacred buildings are preserved as signs and lessons to future generations. An unselfish person would sacrafice their life for the building.

Only fools think we sacrifice it for some plain building, it is a symbol, one more important than all of us. Any one of us would defend the Ka'baa to death. Are we bad then?

[barney]

Lots of people have sacrificed themselves for symbols in the past.
Look at British Redcoats of the 1700's and 1800's dying to save their Colours, (the regiments flag).

But thats drifting the thread a bit.
We are talking about whats more important. A human life or a sacred symbol.

[AntiKarateKid]

Is the Human life bing given up unwillingly or willingly? Am I the person deciding whether or not to sacrifice my own life for it? If it is me making the decision for myself, I would most certainly sacrifice myself to keep Allah's symbols here on the earth for future generations. Perhaps it may be a lesson to others to put Allah ahead of themselves.

We are all servants of Allah. To him do we belong and to him do we return. The sacred sites in Islam must be preserved for the knowledge and benefit of future Muslims. I would gladly sacrifice myself if it meant that Muslims in the future had better knowledge of Allah's presence.

[crayon]

From what I understood, it's the death of an unwilling person. Buildings can be rebuilt (even the ka'bah), but a person can not be brought back to life (unless it's by Allah of course). If the ka'bah or I had to be destroyed, I would choose to die, but this is an unwilling person, whether they're a child, muslim, non muslim, etc.

[Abdul Fattah]

Isn't the poll ambiguous?
Question1:
Would you choose between a life or a sacred building, yes or no?
Answer1:
No, I wouldn't likely make a choice.
^_^

Question2:
If you were forced to choose, would you protect the life or the building?
Answer2:
Buildings are brick, the kaaba even has been demolished and rebuild in the past already. So I don't think demolishing and rebuilding it again would change its value.

[barney]

Right! Own up! which Atheist posted they liked the building more than the human????!

[Ghira]

Definitely save the innocent child because he/she is born in what is called fitra, innate knowledge that tells her there is One God worthy of worship (Muslim). A building is just a building and not as sacred as human LIFE period. Many people including Christians think otherwise.

[Muezzin]

Innocent child? Heck no, the life of a child, even the brattiest child in history, takes precedence over any building, holy or no. Buildings can be rebuilt.

So... what if it isn't an innocent child?

What if it is a person from a competing religion (if you're a muslim say its a jew). What if its an atheist. What if its somebody who isn't so innocent, say a thief or an adulterer?

Does the person involved matter in your decision? Or is a human life a human life, full stop?

If it's a grown man armed with a bazooka who is actively trying to destroy said building, I think a lot of people would support the decision to end his life on such principles as 'public safety' and 'getting to read in the paper about some bazooka-wielding nutter who got blown away'.

[Ebtisweetsam]

Right! Own up! which Atheist posted they liked the building more than the human????!

Cmon Barns, admit it was you :D:D:D

[Fishman]

:sl:
I though the OP meant that the only way to save the building is through killing the person who is destroying it or something like that. In that case, I would definitely want the building to be saved. Destroying the Kaaba (or the Prophet (peace be upon him)'s grave or the Masjid al haram or whatever other sacred structure you want) is a perversion of humanity.
:w:

[Muezzin]

:sl:
I though the OP meant that the only way to save the building is through killing the person who is destroying it or something like that. In that case, I would definitely want the building to be saved. Destroying the Kaaba (or the Prophet (peace be upon him)'s grave or the Masjid al haram or whatever other sacred structure you want) is a perversion of humanity.
:w:

He went on to say, however, that the person is a child.

If the person is a child, I believe it is morally wrong to kill him or her, even if he or she is actively trying to destroy the building.

If it's a grown man or woman armed with a missile launcher or something, those kind of people tend to get gunned down for attempting to destroy any buildings, let alone sacred ones.

[barney]

Umm, nope the person wasnt trying to blow it up. It was more, you could save one but not the other, kind of poll.
Meh, if theyre trying to blow stuff up, their fair game IMO.