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Abdul-Raouf
04-11-2008, 01:43 PM
We hear lot these news time and again.

What will be your reaction if your sister/wife/mother is a victim of this barbaric incident?

Do u think enough punishment is given by the Modern World - Democracy to the HUMAN ANIMALS who involve in this crime ?
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mutlib
04-11-2008, 01:59 PM
they should be punished according to Islamic rules if the victim is in a Muslim country...or where the Islamic rules can b applied
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Umu 'Isa
04-11-2008, 02:07 PM
:salamext:
I know someone who was gang raped when she was 13 years old. She is now 29 mashaAllah.

I was only 6 years old, so I didn't know until recent years when she told me. The men that did it to her didn't even get punished because there was no evidence placing them at the scene except for her word. They did barbaric things to her and I believe she would of been a completely different person if that didnt happen. She grew up on drugs.. left home when she was 14, did only Allaah knows what... she is non-muslim btw.

The scummy men who do this to women deserve to be executed.
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chacha_jalebi
04-11-2008, 02:11 PM
personally, i think rapists should in turn be raped by gay men seriously and then they should be executed :D
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Umar001
04-11-2008, 02:24 PM
I think people should lose limbs for commiting crimes against others, stealing, loose a limb buddy. Would cut the rates down alot, but then again is that what the goverment really wants? I dont know
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MaiCarInMtl
04-11-2008, 02:59 PM
The punishment for most crimes in North America are a joke. Sometimes I entertain vigilante thoughts and can't blame people who do these kinds of things in certain situations. I always recall the case of the "Vigilante Dad" - his daughter was kidnapped and rapped for years by a couple - when she was able to escape to go home, he found them and killed them. He was then put on trial for their murders. I can sympathyse with his reaction.

But then don't acts like this lower you as well? Quite a horrible situation to be put in.
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Gator
04-11-2008, 03:14 PM
Voted agree with the law. Minimum sentence for rape where I live is 18 years to life. I don't believe in state sponsored execution. I would get satisfaction through killing them only if I could do it myself. But that's just personal vendetta and not how a civilzation should run.

thanks.
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aadil77
04-11-2008, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
personally, i think rapists should in turn be raped by gay men seriously and then they should be executed :D
haha lol! :D cracked me up silly
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Al-Zaara
04-11-2008, 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by Gator
Voted agree with the law. Minimum sentence for rape where I live is 18 years to life. I don't believe in state sponsored execution. I would get satisfaction through killing them only if I could do it myself. But that's just personal vendetta and not how a civilzation should run.

thanks.
I have to agree. I'd also agree with the law and pray strongly for sabr (patience), because oh boy would I be furious. Yet as MaiCarInMtl said, wouldn't this lower yourself at their level too?

Well, it's hard for me personally to say, 'cause in Islam I'd have the right to do justice according to the Shariah them. Yet the Shariah is not acted upon here or anywhere else, so have to agree with the law. Also, I am much more on the side that forgiveness and not making revenge is way better and it is most rewarding in the end. Although I can strongly symphatise with how hard it can be to think that way in that situation.

If someone else executed them, it would never satisfy my revenge either. I'd want to destroy them, but the thought scares me how violent I could become. It doesn't feel right to think that way as a Muslim. We are only allowed to hurt as much as was hurted, but I am very scared I wouldn't be able to control myself if I was given the chance..

InshaAllah we won't have to experience this and inshaAllah these things will one day end and the victims will be shown much mercy by Allah and granted guidance and help!! May the ones who do injustice be put infront of the Greatest of Judges and may He judge the best way there is! Amiin.
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Ali.
04-11-2008, 04:38 PM
:sl:

This might sound ridiculous to some of you; but I think a few years in prison will do it if it's their first offense. A few years is plenty of time to reflect upon your actions. If it's their second offense or rape, I'd probably want them to have a bit longer in prison and get somebody to talk to them about it and convince them it's wrong. Third time; umm...life imprisonment maybe, but that's a big one.
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Umar001
04-11-2008, 05:39 PM
Wa Alaykum Salam Bro Ali,

To be honest and with respect, that does sound ridiculous. Imagine, a woman keeping her virginity, in the hope that she can share this with her husband, keeping herself pure, through all temptations, she says no and resists, waiting for her husband.

All her life, this precious young lady, soft, delicate, is jumped upon by a man, who overpowers her, she refuses and he forces himself, hurting her physically, taking all her hard work away from her, much runs through her mind, he is enjoying himself, recieving pleasure from her body while she hurts.

Much more could be said, anyone who says such an individual does not deserve death, to me, is crazy and I'd dislike to have such a person in my community. But that's me, I guess.
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Muslim Woman
04-11-2008, 06:08 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Abdul-Raouf
We hear lot these news time and again.

What will be your reaction if your sister/wife/mother is a victim of this barbaric incident?
she does not need to be my sis / mom ......rapist must get death penalty.
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crayon
04-11-2008, 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
Wa Alaykum Salam Bro Ali,

To be honest and with respect, that does sound ridiculous. Imagine, a woman keeping her virginity, in the hope that she can share this with her husband, keeping herself pure, through all temptations, she says no and resists, waiting for her husband.

All her life, this precious young lady, soft, delicate, is jumped upon by a man, who overpowers her, she refuses and he forces himself, hurting her physically, taking all her hard work away from her, much runs through her mind, he is enjoying himself, recieving pleasure from her body while she hurts.

Much more could be said, anyone who says such an individual does not deserve death, to me, is crazy and I'd dislike to have such a person in my community. But that's me, I guess.
I agree. And that's not even mentioning the emotional and psychological effects of rape which can possibly leave you scarred for life..
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Keltoi
04-11-2008, 06:25 PM
This might be off topic slightly, but if you pay attention to situations in Africa and elsewhere you see rape used as a weapon of war. Why? Because it shatters lives and leaves the victims in state of lifelong shock and despair.

Looking at the domestic level, where rape is still a common crime, it has the same effect on women in the USA as it does to those poor women in Darfur and the Congo. Personally, I think rape is one of the worst crimes that can be inflicted upon another human being, directly below outright murder. Some women might see it as worse than murder, and I wouldn't disagree. Doesn't matter to me whether it is a first offense or the third, it should be punished by the most severe means available to the law.
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crayon
04-11-2008, 06:36 PM
Yeah, I was just about to say that in my opinion, it is worse than murder. It is possible to murder someone whilst not really knowing what you're doing, in a fit of rage and anger. Raping someone, on the other hand, you are fully aware of exactly what you're doing. It's disgusting.
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Ali.
04-11-2008, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
Wa Alaykum Salam Bro Ali,

To be honest and with respect, that does sound ridiculous. Imagine, a woman keeping her virginity, in the hope that she can share this with her husband, keeping herself pure, through all temptations, she says no and resists, waiting for her husband.

All her life, this precious young lady, soft, delicate, is jumped upon by a man, who overpowers her, she refuses and he forces himself, hurting her physically, taking all her hard work away from her, much runs through her mind, he is enjoying himself, recieving pleasure from her body while she hurts.

Much more could be said, anyone who says such an individual does not deserve death, to me, is crazy and I'd dislike to have such a person in my community. But that's me, I guess.
:sl:

I get your point. I too, would dislike to have the person(s) in my community, and I agree with you of how much of a serious issue this is.

But say a person did rape - now we don't know anything about this guy. He could've lost his Mother and Father at a very young age due to, let's say drug abuse. He could've had very bad parents and been taught bad manners. He could've been brought up in a very harsh neighbourhood and taught no respect whatsoever. He even could be on drugs himself - influenced by the people he grew up with.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe he hasn't been taught manners at all throughout his life and ontop of that, had a very harsh life. Rape is not a light issue; bad childhood/friends/neighbourhood are likely to be causes of his rape. You'd just need to teach him. Teach him well, introduce to him the idea of religion, etiquette and respect. Let him live in a friendly, polite environment for a few days and let the people be an example to him. If all this has been done and he still rapes, I guess you could jump to harsh punishments.
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Umar001
04-11-2008, 07:44 PM
I understand your point bro Ali,

Althogh I still do think that if the person is sane, i.e he/she knows what he/she is doing, then they should be killed.

This will also be a detterent to others, so other kids brought up bad will know it is bad to kill since they will hear about it.

I mean, roberry or something maybe even murder maybe you could say his/her upbringing, but rape, I dont think so.
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Snowflake
04-11-2008, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by Ali.
:sl:
I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe he hasn't been taught manners at all throughout his life and ontop of that, had a very harsh life. Rape is not a light issue; bad childhood/friends/neighbourhood are likely to be causes of his rape. You'd just need to teach him. Teach him well, introduce to him the idea of religion, etiquette and respect. Let him live in a friendly, polite environment for a few days and let the people be an example to him. If all this has been done and he still rapes, I guess you could jump to harsh punishments.
Isn't that like saying the rape isn't his fault but someone elses? So he needs to be smacked on the wrist and be taught to be a good human being? If he's had bad influences in his life then he must've had some good one's too. Why just let the bad influences affect him? Why not learn from the good ones? His choice! His crime may have been a one-off, but his victim will have to relive the horror of his crime for the rest of her life. The least severe punishment should be chemical/physical castration if not death.
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aadil77
04-11-2008, 08:07 PM
:sl:

A punishment that was being considered for continous offenders here was, giving them a drug that would make them permaneantly unable to have children, so basically they can't do it again, but obviously that isn't enough, but it can just as well ruin the lives of the offenders
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Ali.
04-11-2008, 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
I understand your point bro Ali,

Althogh I still do think that if the person is sane, i.e he/she knows what he/she is doing, then they should be killed.

This will also be a detterent to others, so other kids brought up bad will know it is bad to kill since they will hear about it.

I mean, roberry or something maybe even murder maybe you could say his/her upbringing, but rape, I dont think so.
:sl:

Well I agree with your first point, if they have been brought up and taught what is right and what is wrong and the rest of it, I guess punishment would be appropriate.

Yes it probably would.

I think rape could be because of his/her upbringing; because for example say the child was introduced to pornography at an early age, told it was OK and normal; excessive pornography can cause temptation to actually see/do the real thing. As the child grows up the child could get desperate; therfore resorting to rape. It is possible.

Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
Isn't that like saying the rape isn't his fault but someone elses? So he needs to be smacked on the wrist and be taught to be a good human being? If he's had bad influences in his life then he must've had some good one's too. Why just let the bad influences affect him? Why not learn from the good ones? His choice! His crime may have been a one-off, but his victim will have to relive the horror of his crime for the rest of her life. The least severe punishment should be chemical/physical castration if not death.
You know, sometimes upbringing can be horrible and good influences are rare. If there are good influences the parents could be telling the child what is wrong is OK. By this time the child would've looked up to his parents throughout his whole life and always listened the them, he would always listen to them no matter what. This is where you would need to let him live in a good neighbourhood and let the community be an example to him.
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there there
04-11-2008, 10:42 PM
\
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
The least severe punishment should be chemical/physical castration if not death.
Sorry, what's chemical castration?


Anyway, I don't believe in castration. It doesn't actually solve anything. That person would probably still have thoughts of rape-regrading this castration fails as a punishment. A punishment should raise the criminal's conciousness to the terrible deed he/she has done. It should be a time of penance and reflection. The whole idea of prison (for people in there temporarily anyway) is to make the criminal fit enough so when he/she is out he/she can function normally in society.

However in the case of rape it is indeed, as someone else has said in this thread, second only to murder. So it's a difficult situation. Castration seems excessive but when I think of rape victims it's only too apt.

I don't know my thoughts on whether enough punishment is given. I think it's a case of whether the punishments actually solve anything. In some sense prison fails-as proven by repeat rapists. This doesn't mean however that we should resort to screaming "castration!" and that is the only gripe I have I guess.
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Snowflake
04-11-2008, 11:03 PM
^ chemical castration is temporary castration caused by medication.

This doesn't mean however that we should resort to screaming "castration!" and that is the only gripe I have I guess
I can't help but think if people had screamed "castration!" when rape statistics first began rising, then we wouldn't be voicing our lack of tolerence here today.
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barney
04-11-2008, 11:52 PM
After the head of the "rapist" hits the basket, following a fair trial. Incontrovetable evidence arises that the executed rapist was actually totally innocent.
Another man admits to it. He has his head chopped off.
Turns out he was mad. And he diddnt do it either.

If theyre in chokey and this happens , you can let them out. The only remit the dead get is a possibility of heaven.
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qassy!
04-12-2008, 12:28 AM
beat them to hell and let them die in pain.
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Abdul-Raouf
04-12-2008, 04:23 PM
I all ways think they should be executed.


All those who voted other than the 1st option....
Im sure you wont agree with ur choice... when it really happens.

May ALLAH protect us.
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Snowflake
04-12-2008, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by Ali.
:sl:
You know, sometimes upbringing can be horrible and good influences are rare. If there are good influences the parents could be telling the child what is wrong is OK. By this time the child would've looked up to his parents throughout his whole life and always listened the them, he would always listen to them no matter what. This is where you would need to let him live in a good neighbourhood and let the community be an example to him.
Bro, you're too softhearted, really. How is it possible to do what you're saying? It isn't. When we state things should be done a certain way, we gotta remember the possibility of personally having to deal (God forbid) with a rapist too one day. Would be invite him to our midst and help him mend our ways when he's just raped a member of our family? I can't see how anyone can/will do that. It's on that basis I disagree with you.

The best thing would be to help people to the right Path before they succumb to evil temptations. As they say, prevention is better than cure.
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Ali.
04-12-2008, 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
Bro, you're too softhearted, really. How is it possible to do what you're saying? It isn't. When we state things should be done a certain way, we gotta remember the possibility of personally having to deal (God forbid) with a rapist too one day. Would be invite him to our midst and help him mend our ways when he's just raped a member of our family? I can't see how anyone can/will do that. It's on that basis I disagree with you.

The best thing would be to help people to the right Path before they succumb to evil temptations. As they say, prevention is better than cure.
The only reason you'd want to kill a rapist who raped a member of your family is out of anger. You think about how you'd feel if a member of your family was raped by someone, but have you ever thought if you were that rapist? Who was brought up emotionless, lived in a harsh environment/harsh neighbourhood and the rest of it which I'm not going to type all over again.

Plus as I said above, if the person was brought up correctly, taught what is good and what is bad and raped, then yes I agree with punishment. But you can't jump to punishments straight away without doing any thinking or background research on the rapist. It's like jailing a man who was taught that police were pigs, drugs don't do you any harm, robbery is an easy and acceptable way to earn money, and school is a waste of time, and to be harsh in life; kill, not to be too softhearted and spare the life of an innocent.

Do you think it would really be right to kill a man who would drown in confusion thinking what he had done was fine; everybody in his neighbourhood did it why was he getting killed for it?
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MustafaMc
04-12-2008, 05:25 PM
As Muslims we should strive for applying the punishment prescribed by Allah.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1125407868541
The punishment for rape in Islam is the same as the punishment for zina (adultery or fornication), which is stoning if the perpetrator is married, and one hundred lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married.

Moreover, Ibn `Abdul-Barr (may Allah bless his soul) said:
The scholars are unanimously agreed that the rapist is to be subjected to the hadd punishment if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves the hadd punishment, or if he admits to that. Otherwise, he is to be punished (that is, if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her. (Al-Istidhkaar, 7/146).
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Souljette
04-12-2008, 05:27 PM
Bro Ali ^^^ these people are the ones with mental problems and that's fine but why give them three times..i don't agree with givng them chances three times..i only believe they get a chance first time nd tht's it....yes i know your talking about their conditioning and everything but no way after the first time if they get any1 tht's it...dey got their time to learn their lesson...second time their out
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Ali.
04-12-2008, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by Souljette
Bro Ali ^^^ these people are the ones with mental problems and that's fine but why give them three times..i don't agree with givng them chances three times..i only believe they get a chance first time nd tht's it....yes i know your talking about their conditioning and everything but no way after the first time if they get any1 tht's it...dey got their time to learn their lesson...second time their out
I don't understand; what do you mean?

Are you saying they should not get a second chance?
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Souljette
04-12-2008, 05:50 PM
i think they should get a second chance but not a third chance
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Souljette
04-12-2008, 05:50 PM
^^ nd dat also depends on the way they were brought up..their past or their mental problems nd only den dey shuld get a second chance
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Ali.
04-12-2008, 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by Souljette
^^ nd dat also depends on the way they were brought up..their past or their mental problems nd only den dey shuld get a second chance
Yes, I agree with you.
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Snowflake
04-13-2008, 12:46 AM
Originally Posted by Ali.
The only reason you'd want to kill a rapist who raped a member of your family is out of anger. You think about how you'd feel if a member of your family was raped by someone, but have you ever thought if you were that rapist? Who was brought up emotionless, lived in a harsh environment/harsh neighbourhood and the rest of it which I'm not going to type all over again.

Plus as I said above, if the person was brought up correctly, taught what is good and what is bad and raped, then yes I agree with punishment. But you can't jump to punishments straight away without doing any thinking or background research on the rapist. It's like jailing a man who was taught that police were pigs, drugs don't do you any harm, robbery is an easy and acceptable way to earn money, and school is a waste of time, and to be harsh in life; kill, not to be too softhearted and spare the life of an innocent.

Do you think it would really be right to kill a man who would drown in confusion thinking what he had done was fine; everybody in his neighbourhood did it why was he getting killed for it?
Did I say I want rapists to be killed? I'm more for castration - even if the victim was a family member. You didn't answer my question. Would you sit down a person who'd done this injustice to a member of your family and help him change and justify his behavior because he'd been brought up in a harsh environment? Would you?

Everyone has emotions regardless of upbringing - that is unless you're brain dead or a zombie. Your profile of such a rapist is more of a do-gooder's imaginary 'I can change people' response than reality.

Most rapists are educated people who've had a normal upbringing. Anyone of these can rape under the influence of drink/drugs yet they might not have done so if they hadn't been under the influence. Do they deserve a second chance too? And above all how do you prove that the 'emotionless' rapist's upbringing was to blame? It could just be an excuse. Background checks prove nothing.

And anyway, if the rapist is 'emotionless' as you say, then why worry? He won't feel anything about being punished would he!?

So forget the tears - get the shears!
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MustafaMc
04-13-2008, 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
As Muslims we should strive for applying the punishment prescribed by Allah.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1125407868541
The punishment for rape in Islam is the same as the punishment for zina (adultery or fornication), which is stoning if the perpetrator is married, and one hundred lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married.

Moreover, Ibn `Abdul-Barr (may Allah bless his soul) said:
The scholars are unanimously agreed that the rapist is to be subjected to the hadd punishment if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves the hadd punishment, or if he admits to that. Otherwise, he is to be punished (that is, if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her. (Al-Istidhkaar, 7/146).
'Black Annie' at Parchman Prison Farm, Mississippi
from "Worse than Slavery: Parchman Farm and the Ordeal of Jim Crow Justice", by David M. Oshinsky

New York Free Press, c.1996

There was more. The true symbol of authority and discipline at Parchman was a leather strap, three feet long and six inches wide, known as "Black Annie," which hung from the driver's belt. Whipping had a long history in the South, of course, and not only on the slave plantations. It had been legally, often publicly, employed against white criminals for a host of minor crimes, and it had survived long after other forms of corporal punishment, such as branding and ear cropping, had been abolished.
....
At Parchman (MS state prison not far from where I live), formal punishment meant a whipping in front of the men. It was done by the sergeant, with the victim stripped to the waist and spread-eagled on the floor. What convicts most remembered were the sounds of Black Annie: the "whistlin'" air, the crack on bare flesh, the convict's painful grunt.
....
Public opinion in Mississippi strongly supported the lash. Prison officials and sheriffs, politicians and judges, church groups and newspapers -- most seemed to favor its use. "The whip makes no appeal to hidden virtue," said The Jackson Clarion-Ledger," but it is a sure and effective means of planting fear ... in the hearts of [criminals]. It is retribution, and retribution hurts." No one knew this better than the convicts who had felt Black Annie's clout. Their fear and pain were heard across the fields. http://www.corpun.com/usprr2.htm

Although this kind of punishment has been banned in USA, it was an effective punishment in prisons of the old days in the Deep South.

Why do we have to execute the rapist? 100 lashes in public with "Black Annie" would certainly put the "fear of God" in him and deter him from further offenses.
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barney
04-13-2008, 01:56 AM
Interesting to compare jewish-christian divine laws on the matter.

Deuteronomy 22:23
If a woman is raped in town, kill her and the rapist. She should have cried for help.
If In the countryside, kill the rapist alone, cos she might have screamed for help and noone heard her.

Nice and simple, although a bit flawed and kinda minus 18th centuryish.
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crayon
04-13-2008, 08:06 AM
Originally Posted by Ali.
The only reason you'd want to kill a rapist who raped a member of your family is out of anger. You think about how you'd feel if a member of your family was raped by someone, but have you ever thought if you were that rapist? Who was brought up emotionless, lived in a harsh environment/harsh neighbourhood and the rest of it which I'm not going to type all over again.

Plus as I said above, if the person was brought up correctly, taught what is good and what is bad and raped, then yes I agree with punishment. But you can't jump to punishments straight away without doing any thinking or background research on the rapist. It's like jailing a man who was taught that police were pigs, drugs don't do you any harm, robbery is an easy and acceptable way to earn money, and school is a waste of time, and to be harsh in life; kill, not to be too softhearted and spare the life of an innocent.

Do you think it would really be right to kill a man who would drown in confusion thinking what he had done was fine; everybody in his neighbourhood did it why was he getting killed for it?
Are you honestly trying to convince us that rapists don't know that what they're doing is wrong? If someone is screaming at the rapist to stop, and he don't, he still thinks that's completely a-ok to be doing what he's doing? Come on, no matter what kind of environment you've been raised it, if someone is yelling their lungs out, you've got to know there's something not right going on.
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DAWUD_adnan
04-13-2008, 09:11 AM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
personally, i think rapists should in turn be raped by gay men seriously and then they should be executed :D

BEST RESPONSE EVER.
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Ali.
04-13-2008, 09:16 AM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
Did I say I want rapists to be killed? I'm more for castration - even if the victim was a family member. You didn't answer my question. Would you sit down a person who'd done this injustice to a member of your family and help him change and justify his behavior because he'd been brought up in a harsh environment? Would you?

Everyone has emotions regardless of upbringing - that is unless you're brain dead or a zombie. Your profile of such a rapist is more of a do-gooder's imaginary 'I can change people' response than reality.

Most rapists are educated people who've had a normal upbringing. Anyone of these can rape under the influence of drink/drugs yet they might not have done so if they hadn't been under the influence. Do they deserve a second chance too? And above all how do you prove that the 'emotionless' rapist's upbringing was to blame? It could just be an excuse. Background checks prove nothing.

And anyway, if the rapist is 'emotionless' as you say, then why worry? He won't feel anything about being punished would he!?

So forget the tears - get the shears!
Sorry I misread your post.

CASTRATION! I guess it's a fair enough punishment.
To answer your question: if the upbringing was horrendous, then why not.

Background check proves nothing? I think not. Hence the name; check his background. It does more than nothing I can assure you.

I never said emotionless - I said maybe he thought what he was doing was OK since everybody in his neighbourhood talked about it/did it. Do I really have to repeat over and over again?

Originally Posted by crayon
Are you honestly trying to convince us that rapists don't know that what they're doing is wrong? If someone is screaming at the rapist to stop, and he don't, he still thinks that's completely a-ok to be doing what he's doing? Come on, no matter what kind of environment you've been raised it, if someone is yelling their lungs out, you've got to know there's something not right going on.
I am not trying to convince you anything. This thread was meant to have people posting their different opinions when suddenly I am bashed by 3 or more people.

You could be right - maybe I am wrong. It was an opinion only. Maybe Allah (SWT) has created mankind to think for themselves no matter what environment put in, I don't know.
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Soulja Girl
04-13-2008, 09:20 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
personally, i think rapists should in turn be raped by gay men seriously and then they should be executed :D
^LOL! They should be punsihed severely...Dunno what could be a harsh punsihment though...Stoned to death? :hmm: So others can learn from their mistakes...

:w:
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Snowflake
04-13-2008, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by Ali.
Sorry I misread your post.

CASTRATION! I guess it's a fair enough punishment.
To answer your question: if the upbringing was horrendous, then why not.

Background check proves nothing? I think not. Hence the name; check his background. It does more than nothing I can assure you.
Brother, I'm not bashing you at all lol. Please don't take it personally. I'm against your idea not you. Please forgive me if it seemed like a personal attack.

Back ground checks can only prove that the rapist had a bad upbringing, not the reason for commiting the rape. There are millions of people who've been brought up undesirably. If all of them were to rape due to that reason, none of us would be safe. A psychologist once said that it is impossible to read anyone's mind. They can only assess by what information they receive from that person. So, checks aren't a foulproof method of proving that a person's upbringing was to blame for the crime.

I never said emotionless - I said maybe he thought what he was doing was OK since everybody in his neighbourhood talked about it/did it. Do I really have to repeat over and over again
You did say 'emotionless' but I won't bother quoting it. You really think that somewhere in the world a place full of people exists who think it's ok to rape and they talk about doing it? And a poor brain-washed rapist then decides he wants to do it too? But we got to let him off cuz he was brought up in Rape County? Lol, that's just a really absurd notion you have.
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Whatsthepoint
04-13-2008, 12:15 PM
I don't think anyone in their right mind would comit a rape. I agree with Ali, rapists are a product of different factors, ranging from domestic violence and school bullying to the lack of proper morals (...) in one's upbringing.
So I don't think they should be executed or anything like that. Chemical castration seems like a better idea, and jail time naturally.

how many witnesses (if any) are required in Islam for a rape to be proven and the rapist put to death?
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Ali.
04-13-2008, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
Brother, I'm not bashing you at all lol. Please don't take it personally. I'm against your idea not you. Please forgive me if it seemed like a personal attack.

Back ground checks can only prove that the rapist had a bad upbringing, not the reason for commiting the rape. There are millions of people who've been brought up undesirably. If all of them were to rape due to that reason, none of us would be safe. A psychologist once said that it is impossible to read anyone's mind. They can only assess by what information they receive from that person. So, checks aren't a foulproof method of proving that a person's upbringing was to blame for the crime.


You did say 'emotionless' but I won't bother quoting it. You really think that somewhere in the world a place full of people exists who think it's ok to rape and they talk about doing it? And a poor brain-washed rapist then decides he wants to do it too? But we got to let him off cuz he was brought up in Rape County? Lol, that's just a really absurd notion you have.

Background checks connote reasons for commiting the rape. Ofcourse it won't give you a definite answer as to why he did it.

Alright then, what do you think the reasons are if someone rapes someone?
No reason at all? Do you think he/she was just bored and decided to go outside and rape someone?
There is a reason behind everything, and that's why we do research on the guy; to find out that reason.

You really think that somewhere in the world a place full of people exists who think it's ok to rape and they talk about doing it?
I have met a guy who takes it as a joke and talks about rape/sex a lot of the time. And guess what? His parents separated when he was young, he's had a pretty harsh life, and some other personal stuff that I'm not going to say on this forum.
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crayon
04-13-2008, 02:03 PM
Does your friend know that rape is wrong?
Reply

Al-Zaara
04-13-2008, 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by Ali.
I have met a guy who takes it as a joke and talks about rape/sex a lot of the time. And guess what? His parents separated when he was young, he's had a pretty harsh life, and some other personal stuff that I'm not going to say on this forum.
I too have to agree with brother Ali, I see his points and they do make sense.

I myself knew a while back a few guys who didn't see much bad in rape, they were in my class. It was shocking, but knowing their backgrounds which I did, their outlook on the subject was understandable at some level.
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Snowflake
04-13-2008, 02:32 PM
Ali.;927007]Background checks connote reasons for commiting the rape. Ofcourse it won't give you a definite answer as to why he did it.
Exactly! So without a definite answer which only the rapist knows, he could be let free on the basis of his upbringing. That wouldn't do justice to the victim and there'd be no deterrent effect on others. Therefore, even the first time offender should at least be chemically castrated - before he rapes again.

Alright then, what do you think the reasons are if someone rapes someone?
No reason at all? Do you think he/she was just bored and decided to go outside and rape someone?
There is a reason behind everything, and that's why we do research on the guy; to find out that reason.
It's somewhat contradictory to say that we could never get a definite answer then saying we can do research to find the reason. And even if a reason was found, why should it warranty freedom? How would that make the victim feel? There are already enough women who don't report rape as they feel they won't be believed. If rapists get off scotfree cuz of upbringing, we'd see a drastic fall in rape statistics - not because rapists have stopped raping, but because people have lost faith in the justice system and simply stopped reporting rapes.


I have met a guy who takes it as a joke and talks about rape/sex a lot of the time. And guess what? His parents separated when he was young, he's had a pretty harsh life, and some other personal stuff that I'm not going to say on this forum
He too should be castrated if he commits the crime.
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Ali.
04-13-2008, 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by crayon
Does your friend know that rape is wrong?
Yes I suppose so.
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crayon
04-13-2008, 03:42 PM
But then if someone knows it's wrong, and la samaha Allah, they rape someone someday, knowing 100% that it is wrong, should they not be punished?

"No reason at all? Do you think he/she was just bored and decided to go outside and rape someone?
There is a reason behind everything, and that's why we do research on the guy; to find out that reason."

Someone murders their wife because they discovered she was cheating on him. That's his reason. Should he be tried any differently than someone who killed with no reason/a different reason?
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Ali.
04-13-2008, 03:48 PM
[QUOTE=crayon;927049]But then if someone knows it's wrong, and la samaha Allah, they rape someone someday, knowing 100% that it is wrong, should they not be punished?

QUOTE]

Put it this way - he's heard it's wrong, somewhere deep down he knows it's wrong - but he thinks it's OK since everybody talks about it, he got caught up in the wrong group of friends who also talk to him about it and how "amazing" it would be.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense I'm in a bit of a rush.
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crayon
04-13-2008, 03:50 PM
[QUOTE=Ali.;927050]
Originally Posted by crayon
But then if someone knows it's wrong, and la samaha Allah, they rape someone someday, knowing 100% that it is wrong, should they not be punished?

QUOTE]

Put it this way - he's heard it's wrong, somewhere deep down he knows it's wrong - but he thinks it's OK since everybody talks about it, he got caught up in the wrong group of friends who also talk to him about it and how "amazing" it would be.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense I'm in a bit of a rush.
No, it does make sense, I think I finally get what you mean. It's a reason, but not an excuse.
ie it doesn't justify rape, but gives a possible cause of it.
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.:abs:.
04-13-2008, 03:57 PM
Castrate the animals if proven 100% guilty.
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Snowflake
04-13-2008, 04:01 PM
^ yeh! and then deported to wherever they came from. It's sickening when anyone commits rape but as a muslim I'm even more sickened when the offender is a muslim! Kick them out! There's no better deterrent.
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Souljette
04-13-2008, 06:42 PM
Rape is done bcuz of power...men feel they are powerful and so do dis...i don't know how sum ppl can think it's right with evrythng saying it's rong but i don't blame them fi they think it's right for a short period of time as this culd b according to conditioning..Benefit of the doubt only shuld b given accordin to the mental state...the easiest way for muslims..is goin by the Islamic Law
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Snowflake
04-14-2008, 12:16 PM
mental state will be shocked to normal when threatened with castration and deportation

and power isn't the only reason for rape - sometimes it's pure lust
Reply

Azy
04-14-2008, 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
mental state will be shocked to normal when threatened with castration and deportation
This doesn't really work though, look at all the countries with execution and amputation as punishments, there is still a lot of crime. People just don't think they're going to get caught.
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islamirama
04-14-2008, 02:52 PM
Originally Posted by Ali.
:sl:

This might sound ridiculous to some of you; but I think a few years in prison will do it if it's their first offense. A few years is plenty of time to reflect upon your actions. If it's their second offense or rape, I'd probably want them to have a bit longer in prison and get somebody to talk to them about it and convince them it's wrong. Third time; umm...life imprisonment maybe, but that's a big one.
:w:

Try telling that to the victim....


in Islam, the punishment for rape is death and rightly so!
Reply

crayon
04-14-2008, 03:54 PM
GREENSBURG, Pa. -- An 18-year-old Greensburg man has been charged with raping a baby who police said was left in his care.

Police said Scott Wade Smith raped his girlfriend's 5-month-old girl Friday morning at a home in the 500 block of Highland Avenue, where several people, including the infant's mother, were living.

Authorities said the infant suffered severe injuries and was flown to Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh, where surgery was performed.
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Police said the girl was crying so hard she nearly stopped breathing.

According to police, Smith made a story about the baby choking on a crayon, but paramedics didn't find anything in her throat. So, they decided to take her to Westmoreland Hospital, which is where doctors found blood inside her diaper.

"Doctors immediately notified Greensburg police, who headed to the house with a search warrant," said Capt. George Seranko of the Greensburg Police Department.

There, police said they found a blood-soaked towel in a box in Smith's bedroom, along with four red-stained baby wipes.

The mother was in class at her high school when the alleged attack occurred, police said.

Smith was charged with five felonies, including rape of a child, causing seriously bodily injury, involuntary deviate sexual intercourse and endangering the welfare of children. He is being held at the Westmoreland County Prison on $1 million bail.

Police said rape of a child with serious bodily injury under the age of 13 is punishable by life in prison, and they are asking the district attorney to push for that sentence.

A preliminary hearing is scheduled for Thursday. It's unknown whether Smith has a lawyer yet.
I was going to post this in a new thread, but since it's somewhat related, I'm just posting it here. Sick ****.
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truemuslim
04-14-2008, 10:12 PM
ppl get really stupid wit this.. like they kill the actual girl/women who didnt do nothin, as if they had a choice, and leave the criminal alone... if i got to choose, and this happened to someone i kno, i would go whup dem asses and do wut my bro wants to happen to 50 cent, he said this "I hope he gets shot a couple more times and this time he dies slooowly and has a long slow tortous death..." and then started describing how to torture him which i wont post here coz its extremely sick, almost as sick as the final destination movies...i cant believe i actually CHOSE to watch the whole third one..omg its sickkkk
Reply

Umu 'Isa
04-15-2008, 01:00 AM
Originally Posted by crayon
I was going to post this in a new thread, but since it's somewhat related, I'm just posting it here. Sick ****.
Oh my God! That is horrible!! what goes through these peoples mind!!! imsad.. That man deserves to die a slow and painful death. Poor baby :(
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kwolney01
04-15-2008, 01:15 AM
Like many others I think they should be punished according to the Islamic law. I think they give them too many chances. They ruined someones life they shouldn't get a second chance to ruin someone elses.
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Souljette
04-15-2008, 06:32 PM
^^^ Truu say
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alcurad
10-02-2008, 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
I have to agree. I'd also agree with the law and pray strongly for sabr (patience), because oh boy would I be furious. Yet as MaiCarInMtl said, wouldn't this lower yourself at their level too?
no it wouldn't lower you to their level,
why would it?
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Sahabiyaat
10-02-2008, 05:23 AM
:w:

interesting discussion.

to put things into perspective, lets just say, this happend to your mother,just ur mother, no ifs or buts, what would you really do?, as opposed to sitting behind this computer screen and typing out your benevolance i.e anything less than death!

If it was my mother ............omg i dont even want to think about it, i would seriously hire a hitman if the law didnt do me justice.

i think victims should be given a choice, i.e all the painful grusome options suggested i.e death, castration, imprisonment, and the person should be assessed fully as to why they did this, but the choice of punishment should lie with the victim and their family.
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aminahjaan
10-02-2008, 06:52 AM
Rape is committed by crazy idiots nasty scum of the earth losers.
I know someone who had gotten raped.
She's so messed up now, she cuts herself.
She has a blood anemia disease.
Her parents don't believe her
These rapists. uhhhghghgh
ANY TYPE OF RAPE, gang rape etc is downright disgusting and horrible.
Execute them unless they want to get raped in jail too.
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suffiyan007
10-02-2008, 07:07 AM
i had no idea about animals raping?
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Hamayun
10-02-2008, 08:51 AM
I voted life imprisonment but thats only because I haven't got the heart to kill another human being.

Saying that if (god forbid) it happened to a family member then who knows how I might react. Its easy to talk right now but only the victim knows what it is like.
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AmarFaisal
10-02-2008, 09:01 AM
I can't think of anything except wipe them off earth!
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barrio79
10-02-2008, 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by crayon
Are you honestly trying to convince us that rapists don't know that what they're doing is wrong? If someone is screaming at the rapist to stop, and he don't, he still thinks that's completely a-ok to be doing what he's doing? Come on, no matter what kind of environment you've been raised it, if someone is yelling their lungs out, you've got to know there's something not right going on.
There were several high profile gang rapes in Sydney Australia 5 years ago , and a some community groups complained and campaigned that the sentences meted out were far too strong/harsh as it was the victims fault in these sorts of crimes .
.
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Ansariyah
10-02-2008, 10:18 AM
They shud be beheaded.
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Muezzin
10-02-2008, 11:22 AM
Originally Posted by barrio79
There were several high profile gang rapes in Sydney Australia 5 years ago , and a some community groups complained and campaigned that the sentences meted out were far too strong/harsh as it was the victims fault in these sorts of crimes .
.
Wow. Go feminism.
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Güven
10-02-2008, 11:25 AM
life sentence in the most sikk prison in the world , and then ill would leave it to Allah
but yes i would be furious ! I would atleast punish him to coma ! then to prison...
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youngsister
10-02-2008, 11:30 AM
:sl:

to put things into perspective, lets just say, this happend to your mother,just ur mother, no ifs or buts, what would you really do?, as opposed to sitting behind this computer screen and typing out your benevolance i.e anything less than death!
Well said, I always tend to put myself in the person shoes, Subxanallah!

Islamically their punishment is death and is so for a reason and Allah swt knows best.

I am not even going to bother looking at it from the rapist view (unless he is mentally ill), people dont realise the affect it has on people, it ruins a person life simple as.

Personally I wouldnt even killing them myself, but of course this isnt allowed so Isha allah the islamic law would take care of it.

May Allah swt keep us safe.
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Güven
10-02-2008, 11:33 AM
well killing them directly would just make it easier , they would be straight goin to the punishment of Allah inshaAllah ,
but i think you should suffer them in this world and than the punishment in the hereafter...
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aamirsaab
10-02-2008, 11:34 AM
:sl:
I firmly believe the sharia punishment for this particular crime would be most adequate. I think the act is absolutely disgusting and vile; anyone who commits this act should face dire consequences - imprisonment is not justice for the victims of these crimes; a life has been violated and justice must be done.
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truemuslim
10-02-2008, 02:26 PM
if its someone close, then i would totally just knock em out, then put em in the most disgusting/cruelest prison in the world, and I would gladly be in charge of the prison and handle the rest :Evil: oh yeh then its allahs turn :D
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Musaafirah
10-02-2008, 02:43 PM
Execute em..no ifs no buts..The crime they commit is sick. There's no use in trying to be all soft towards them or anything. It's the sickest crime imaginable and the no-one but the victim would be able to know what they're going through.
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Al-Zaara
10-02-2008, 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by alcurad
no it wouldn't lower you to their level,
why would it?
If you read my whole post in context, I think you'd better understand what I tried to say. These feelings and thoughts ain't easy to put into words.

It's easy to hurt someone, to hit them, to make them suffer. I could do it to someone, you could. And these rapists did that, they could do it too. Now to fight fire with fire, there are only ashes left in the end. Of course, one horrible person less, but what does this do to you? As a person, as a Muslim? Or the victim? I mean, we think by eliminating the factor that made the problems we have cleared our problems and the results of it. Not neccessarily.

I still feel life-time can also be used.

These rapists probably don't think anything horrible will happen after they die, so by hurting them there right that moment, it isn't even doing the purpose you want to. Make them suffer and stuff. Nothing of that is the same of what the victim goes through. I find it hard to say pay the same way, hurt them as much. By killing, you only give that moment of pain and then Allah. By keeping them alive, or tortuing all life-time, you give them long, life-time suffering, then Allah. It's not of course clear like this at all, but I think it's worth thinking of that side too.

I still have to agree with this, for I know my first thought would be to kill:
I would get satisfaction through killing them only if I could do it myself.
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sharknet
10-02-2008, 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by barrio79
There were several high profile gang rapes in Sydney Australia 5 years ago , and a some community groups complained and campaigned that the sentences meted out were far too strong/harsh as it was the victims fault in these sorts of crimes .
.
Whats dis post mean what sorta comunity would stick up for a pack rapest
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abdunnur
10-03-2008, 12:26 AM
There is no truth low without islamic low! But we can not fallow islamic low if it no exist. We must respect low of country where we live. We have no doubt, in Future world Allah will be LOW! There is very different country about low. About rape, America (USA) is better than more others. In Europe-the biggest problem is how to make comfortable jale(prison) for man of rape and crime deeds-. In Pakistan is normal to some cruel and stupid gay attack to a woman by acid and MADE her blind and -with unhuman ugly face-, or cut her part of face...cos SHE DOESNT WANT HIM LIKE HER HUSBAND!!!!!!
For govermant and police in Pakistan it is normal?????? Pakistan is full of good muslims, i dont know what they do to try stop it.
In my country (Bosnia) persons under 18 can do all kind of crimes, low is -no exist for them. In this year,they made fire (burn) an old woma, killed child in tram,...
THEY ARE UNDER 18!?
How can i see, in America is better.
Rape is awfull things, raper become in prison more cruel, and victim will have big problems to back in normal life. Rape is destroying of being,and lot of people cant understand that prostitute woman can be raped. For us, muslims, patience is the most important. This life is short and after ....
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Al-Hanbali
10-07-2008, 10:11 PM
:salamext:

The law of Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta'aala) is clear!

What is the ruling on the crime of rape in Islam?.

Praise be to Allaah.

The Arabic word ightisaab refers to taking something wrongfully by force. It is now used exclusively to refer to transgression against the honour of women by force (rape).

This is an abhorrent crime that is forbidden in all religions and in the minds of all wise people and those who are possessed of sound human nature. All earthly systems and laws regard this action as abhorrent and impose the strictest penalties on it, except a few states which waive the punishment if the rapist marries his victim! This is indicative of a distorted mind let alone a lack of religious commitment on the part of those who challenge Allaah in making laws. We do not know of any love or compassion that could exist between the aggressor and his victim, especially since the pain of rape cannot be erased with the passage of time – as it is said. Hence many victims of rape have attempted to commit suicide and many of them have succeeded, The failure of these marriages is proven and they are accompanied by nothing but humiliation and suffering for the woman.

Islam has a clear stance which states that this repugnant action is haraam and imposes a deterrent punishment on the one who commits it.

Islam closes the door to the criminal who wants to commit this crime. Western studies have shown that most rapists are already criminals who commit their crimes under the influence of alcohol and drugs, and they take advantage of the fact that their victims are walking alone in isolated places, or staying in the house alone. These studies also show that what the criminals watch on the media and the semi-naked styles of dress in which women go out, also lead to the commission of this reprehensible crime.

The laws of Islam came to protect women's honour and modesty. Islam forbids women to wear clothes that are not modest and to travel without a mahram; it forbids a woman to shake hands with a non-mahram man. Islam encourages young men and women to marry early, and many other rulings which close the door to rape. Hence it comes as no surprise when we hear or read that most of these crimes occur in permissive societies which are looked up to by some Muslims as examples of civilization and refinement! In America – for example – International Amnesty stated in a 2004 report entitled “Stop Violence Against Women” that every 90 seconds a woman was raped during that year. What kind of life are these people living? What refinement and civilization do they want the Muslim women to take part in?

The punishment for rape in Islam is same as the punishment for zina, which is stoning if the perpetrator is married, and one hundred lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married.

Some scholars also say that he is required to pay a mahr to the woman.

Imam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

In our view the man who rapes a woman, whether she is a virgin or not, if she is a free woman he must pay a “dowry” like that of her peers, and if she is a slave he must pay whatever has been detracted from her value. The punishment is to be carried out on the rapist and there is no punishment for the woman who has been raped, whatever the case. End quote.

Al-Muwatta’, 2/734

Shaykh Salmaan al-Baaji (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

In the case of a woman who is forced (raped): if she is a free woman, the one who forced her must pay her a “dowry” like that of her peers, and the hadd punishment is to be carried out on him. This is the view of al-Shaafa’i, and it is the view of al-Layth, and it was also narrated from ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib (may Allaah be pleased with him).

Abu Haneefah and al-Thawri said: the hadd punishment is to be carried out on him but he is not obliged to pay the “dowry”.

The evidence for what we say is that the hadd punishment and the “dowry” are two rights, one of which is the right of Allaah and the other is the right of the other person. So they may be combined, as in the case of a thief whose hand is cut off and he is required to return the stolen goods. End quote.

Al-Muntaha Sharh al-Muwatta’, 5/268, 269

Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The scholars are unanimously agreed that the rapist is to be subjected to the hadd punishment if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves the hadd punishment, or if he admits to that. Otherwise, he is to be punished (i.e., if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help. End quote.

Al-Istidhkaar, 7/146

Secondly:

The rapist is subject to the hadd punishment for zina, even if the rape was not carried out at knife-point or gun-point. If the use of a weapon was threatened, then he is a muhaarib, and is to be subjected to the hadd punishment described in the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The recompense of those who wage war against Allaah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter”

[al-Maaidah 5:33]

So the judge has the choice of the four punishments mentioned in this verse, and may choose whichever he thinks is most suitable to attain the objective, which is to spread peace and security in society, and ward off evildoers and aggressors.

And Allaah knows best
Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/72338
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dilkadr
10-07-2008, 10:17 PM
:sl:

Modern world is not the ideal world - so is its practices... Unfortunately, we have to spend given time in this world before we moved to next world i.e. janat

:w:
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abdunnur
10-07-2008, 11:04 PM
Uh... I kiss knowledge of safiuRahman!
I have problem with my english, and did not sure did I understand you well.
You said...same treatment for -zina and rape-?!
I can not understand and cant accept it. But, if I be sure that is islamic rules I will accept.
Zina is when two persons -want. Rape is when one person attack to other, and use power, strenght, bit, hit, violence...
In -zina- persons enjoy, in -rape- 1 person suffer, have trauma...
How can be same, how can be treated of low -like same?
selam
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abdunnur
10-07-2008, 11:28 PM
Selam Dilkadr!
Yes, all of muslims know that no absolute justice here, in the Earth...
But it is no answer for everything, sometime we must try to get answers Here. How I see you are from Pakistan. I dont accuse you for anything, and you are not guilty for happening in your country...but...
Do you have an idea what muslims should to do to try stop violence to woman in your country? I dont recommend agressive demonstration, but i think, muslims there must take it serious, speak about it and call(invite) progressive -forces- from other country to make pressure to goverment to punish and stop -cuting part of face, and acid attack. Violence is everywhere, but problem of Pakistan is goverment and judgement. When life of a girl or woman be destroyed -it is normal familly relationship-!
And muslims prefer silence!
Reply

north_malaysian
10-08-2008, 01:06 AM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
personally, i think rapists should in turn be raped by gay men seriously and then they should be executed :D
gay men? I dont think Islam allows that....;D
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Z-Blade
10-08-2008, 02:07 AM
:salamext:,

I say BURN the ANIMALS ALIVE!! BUurrn THEM!! Only kidding, we're not allowed to burn people alive as a punishment ASTAGHFIRULLAH (unless if someone murders someone this way then you can do it to them or something).

Stone them to death or whatever Allah has ordained as a punishment for these beasts. It's an insult to call them animals, animals would never do this, they are lower than animals and lower than DIRT.

Originally Posted by Umu 'Isa
:salamext:
I know someone who was gang raped when she was 13 years old. She is now 29 mashaAllah.

I was only 6 years old, so I didn't know until recent years when she told me. The men that did it to her didn't even get punished because there was no evidence placing them at the scene except for her word. They did barbaric things to her and I believe she would of been a completely different person if that didnt happen. She grew up on drugs.. left home when she was 14, did only Allaah knows what... she is non-muslim btw.

The scummy men who do this to women deserve to be executed.
:wasalamex,

Subhanallah! Indeed they should be put to justice in the harshest way.

Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
personally, i think rapists should in turn be raped by gay men seriously and then they should be executed :D
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
gay men? I dont think Islam allows that....;D
LOL yeah then we'll have to execute the gay men for sodomy straight after ;D.

Wassalam.
Reply

doorster
10-08-2008, 02:12 AM
Originally Posted by youngsister
:sl:



Well said, I always tend to put myself in the person shoes, Subxanallah!

Islamically their punishment is death and is so for a reason and Allah swt knows best.

I am not even going to bother looking at it from the rapist view (unless he is mentally ill), people dont realise the affect it has on people, it ruins a person life simple as.

Personally I wouldnt even killing them myself, but of course this isnt allowed so Isha allah the islamic law would take care of it.

May Allah swt keep us safe.
Jazakillah khair! well said,that is what would happen in a shariah state, however, some of us are not fortunate enough to be living in one thus have to make do with laws of lands where we live
:w:

.................................................. ..................................................

<snip>

me iz wondering why this thread is being allowed to go on and on, is it to see who can come up with the most inventive idea ever posted?
Reply

Woodrow
10-08-2008, 02:54 AM
In my opinion what a rapist deserves as punishment, I would not put into writing. If one of my loved ones were to be raped, the perpetrator would strongly desire to face the police rather than meet me.


Some countries and states do have what are lenient laws regarding rape. the logic being that a victim will be more prone to report it. many victims are kind hearted and will not report a rape as they can not bring themselves to report it knowing the perpetrator will be executed.

It can be a long debate over if rape is more common in countries with lenient laws or if it is just that it will more likely be reported in those countries and more likely to be unreported or hidden in countries with stricter laws.

It is harder to get a conviction if the penalty for a crime is death, then it is to get a conviction if the penalty is less. (in most countries)

Here in the States the punishment for rape varies from State to State. some States are lenient, some harsher than others.

For example what is currently taking place in Louisiana.


Kennedy v. Louisiana (07-343)

Oral argument: Apr. 16, 2008

Appealed from: Supreme Court of Louisiana (May 22, 2007)
CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT, DEATH PENALTY, NON-HOMICIDE

A Louisiana jury found Patrick Kennedy guilty of aggravated rape of his eight-year-old stepdaughter under Louisiana's aggravated rape statute. This statute provided a sentence of death for the rape of a child under twelve years of age. After finding aggravating circumstances, as required by Louisiana law, the jury recommended that Kennedy be sentenced to death. After the Louisiana Supreme Court affirmed his conviction and sentence, Kennedy petitioned the United States Supreme Court to invalidate the sentence on either of two grounds: first, that imposing a death sentence for rape, where the victim does not die, constitutes disproportionate, and therefore "cruel and unusual punishment" under the Eighth Amendment; second, that the aggravating circumstances in the case-that the offender was perpetrating an aggravated rape and the victim was under twelve years old-merely repeated elements of the underlying crime and therefore did not sufficiently limit eligibility for a death sentence to avoid arbitrary sentencing. Kennedy's first contention asks the Court to revisit its decision in Coker v. Georgia, which invalidated, on Eighth Amendment grounds, a death sentence for the rape of a sixteen-year-old.

* [Question(s) presented]
* [Issue(s)]
* [Facts]
* [Discussion]
* [Analysis]

Question(s) presented

1. Whether the Eighth Amendment's Cruel and Unusual Punishment Clause permits a State to punish the crime of rape of a child with the death penalty.

2. If so, whether Louisiana's capital rape statute violates the Eighth Amendment insofar as it fails genuinely to narrow the class of such offenders eligible for the death penalty.

top
Issue(s)

Is it cruel and unusual punishment under the Eighth Amendment to sentence a person to death solely for the rape of a child? If not, does Louisiana's capital rape law nevertheless violate the Eighth Amendment by failing to providing sufficient narrowing guidance to juries concerning who, among those guilty of this crime, should be eligible for the death penalty?

top
Facts

The following facts are taken from the opinion of the Louisiana Supreme Court, State v. Kennedy, 957 So.2d 757 (La. 2007), and the Verdict, Agreement and Settlement of the District Court in this case, 2003 WL 2473647:

In 2003 a jury in the district court of the parish of Jefferson, Louisiana, found Patrick Kennedy guilty of the 1998 rape of his then eight-year-old stepdaughter. In line with the jury's recommendation, the court sentenced Kennedy to death.

The State had charged Kennedy with aggravated rape of a child under Louisiana's capital rape statute, R.S. 14:42 D.(2). At the time of Kennedy's trial, this statute made the death penalty (i.e., a "capital verdict") available for defendants who raped a child under twelve years of age. The alternative sentence was life imprisonment at hard labor without parole. The district attorney had sought the death penalty in Kennedy's case.

In the sentencing phase of the trial, the jury found two aggravating circumstances-the offender was engaged in the perpetration of aggravated rape and the victim was under twelve years old. A finding of at least one statutory aggravating circumstance is necessary before a court can impose a death sentence, according to a separate Louisiana law.

Kennedy appealed his conviction and sentence to the Louisiana Supreme Court. Among his sixty-nine allegations of error, Kennedy claimed that his death sentence violated the Eighth Amendment's prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment because it was a disproportionate penalty for a crime that did not result in loss of life. In its 1977 decision, Coker v. Georgia, the United States Supreme Court had struck down a death sentence for the rape of a sixteen-year-old on Eight Amendment grounds.

Kennedy also objected to the procedure Louisiana used to determine his eligibility for the death penalty-specifically, the means of satisfying the state's "aggravating circumstances" requirement. Both aggravating circumstances the jury had found had simply restated elements of Kennedy's crime. Kennedy said the procedure therefore did not sufficiently narrow the court's discretion to ensure that the death penalty wouldn't be imposed arbitrarily and capriciously.

The Louisiana Supreme Court affirmed the district court's conviction and sentence. It rejected Kennedy's claim that imposing the death sentence solely for rape was inherently unconstitutional, as a disproportionate penalty. The court reasoned that Coker had addressed only the rape of an adult. The Louisiana court also said evidence of public attitudes (which the U.S. Supreme Court looks to in determining sentences' proportionality) supported allowing death sentences for rape of a child.

The Louisiana Supreme Court said four states in addition to Louisiana had recently allowed the death penalty for such crimes. The Louisiana court acknowledged this number was small, but emphasized the emergence of a trend toward making rape of a child a capital crime. The court also looked at an increase in the availability of the death penalty for other non-homicide crimes, such as espionage and drug trafficking. Again, the court noted the trend was toward expanding availability of the death penalty for non-homicides.
Source: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/cert/07-343.html
Reply

north_malaysian
10-08-2008, 03:27 AM
Originally Posted by Z-Blade
Stone them to death or whatever Allah has ordained as a punishment for these beasts.
And the victim should be the first person to stone them.
Reply

north_malaysian
10-08-2008, 03:33 AM
Capital Punishment for Rape


Excerpts from The Malay Ideals (2002)

If serious crimes were meted out with stricter and harsher punishments, we are confident that their numbers would reduce dramatically. In Malaysia, serious sexual offences such as rape is strikingly on the increase. In 1985 there were 522 reported cases of rape and by 1996 it had more than doubled to 1071.[1], [2] A later study announced that 2.4 cases were reported daily in 1993 and the figure had risen to 4.1 in 1998. For every reported case there were 10 others unreported. i.e. every 1.7 hours, a person is raped in Malaysia.[3] Perpetrators of such heinous crime are even willing to kill their victims[4] to avoid identification and indictment.[5] Since June 1995 up until June 2001, 70 teens had been raped and killed.[6] School children within school compounds have been targeted.[7] Young children are not safe either.[8] Even the elderly are not protected from such terrible ordeal. Rape is even committed by university students[9] and police officers.[10] Incest is also increasing. Fathers rape their own children, brothers rape their own sisters. These rapists feel no remorse for their action.[11]

Under the Penal Code Section 376, offenders for rape can be sentenced to a minimum of 5 years of imprisonment and a maximum of 20 years. They are also liable to be fined or whipped up to 6 strokes of the rattan. The law also stipulates under section 289 of the Criminal Procedure Code that an offender above the age of 50 years be exempted from being caned in consideration of his physical condition.[12] The punishment for rape does not seem to deter criminals. The incidence of rape has not reduced in number. Regrettably it is on the increase.[13]

The fear of being discovered or detained is a big factor for a perpetrator to abandon his intention of a criminal act. If the criminal thinks that he will never be identified and get caught ¾ or very unlikely that he will ever be ¾ he will commit the act. If he thinks otherwise, he would not proceed. In other words, the perception of how effective the authority is at discovering the act, identifying the criminal, apprehending and detaining him, is a key factor that determines whether the crime is acted upon. The fear of being apprehended is a deterrent in itself.

The harshest punishment should also be imposed because this too is a source of deterrent in itself. It is in our opinion that in the case of rape, the assailant if found guilty and convicted, ought to receive the capital punishment. The logic for advocating this punishment is taken from the Shari'ah in accordance with hadiths advocating it for adulterers.[14] Although some may argue that the punishment of death to adulterers is not mentioned in the Qur'an and may even contradict the Holy Book[15] ¾ if we took the prescription of the hadith as true for the sake of argument, we shall see the relevance for advocating the death penalty for rape. It is known that in the case of adultery, according to stringent Islamic law as mentioned above, the act is punishable by death.[16] A person who willingly submits to having extramarital sexual relationship and dishonouring the marriage is condemned to capital punishment. In rape, the victim is neither willing and is forced against her own wish. Her life was also under threat. In most cases, the victim will suffer emotional and psychological disturbance and her sexual life will be affected considerably even if not throughout her entire life. Because of the inhumane nature of rape, the threat on the victim's life, the dire consequences it imposed upon the victim, and the nature of the enforced sexual assault, the form of punishment should be equal or more severe than the punishment for adultery. Therefore capital punishment is advocated for the case similar to rape.[17] However, statutory rape is a different matter. Statutory rape implies consented sexual intercourse of a minor with an adult. The classification of statutory rape might have to be phased out if a law that is to be more attuned to the Islamic Shari'ah is to be applied. This is because according to Islam, sex before marriage is prohibited. Statutory rape is still classified under adultery or fornication.

Even if we did not apply the death sentence upon a rapist, a harsh enough sentence such as the hundred lashes[18] ought to be instituted. In the case of incest, death sentence, is reasonable.[19] Currently incest is charged under rape but the government is amending the Penal Code in order to allow for a stiffer (minimum 6 years instead of 5 years as for rape) punishment in the case of incest and to categorise it as a separate crime to rape.[20] Incest is worse than any case of rape because the perpetrator is a part of the family where the girls and women depend upon to confer protection. But the very people they depend upon now victimise them. The psychological trauma must have been unbearable. A study have shown that in nearly half the cases of incest, the perpetrator is the victim's own natural father.[21], [22] The whole concept and nature of the family breaks down. There is no worse a sexual crime than incest. Worse still, the vast majority involve Malays.[23]

It should be noted that before the Hadd punishment can be imposed on the accused, there is a need to ensure that there is only the barest level of doubt concerning the culpability of the assailant. If possible, no doubt at all of course this is onerous to achieve. Nevertheless, Islam requires that four witnesses are brought to dispel any doubt because to impose such a punitive measure requires that the burden of proof lies at the higher level of "certainty". If there is any element of doubt beyond the barest minimum, then a less harsh a punishment should be instituted in place of the Hadd punishment.

In the case of fornication, even if the culpability of a fornicator is never doubted, at times it is better to be merciful. The Holy Prophet, in the few instances that such cases were brought to his attention by the perpetrators themselves, he (the Prophet) would prefer not to hear their case at all. It could be inferred from this treatment that the Prophet had wished the perpetrators to repent, and to cover their own shame. He time again, turned them away when they came to him for judgment. However upon their unrelenting insistence, the Prophet passed on the Hadd punishment.[24] During the time of the Prophet, not a single case of adultery or fornication was established by the use of four witnesses. All were based on confessions.

In the case of rape, a lesser form of punishment may be necessary because there is hardly a case whereby the victim can bring in four witnesses to testify to the crime. In the case of rape, this requirement is almost an impossibility ¾ even so in the cases of fornication. These acts are virtually never acted upon in full view of the public. If however there are other means of ascertaining the crime to the higher requirement of "certainty" or does not create doubt beyond the "barest minimum of doubt" such evidence as a medical examination that verifies the presence of the assailant's semen in the coital passage coupled with the evidence of forced entry (in rape) then the Hadd punishment may be instituted in place of a confession on the part of the criminal or the presence of four witnesses. Circumstantial evidence should be allowed and so is forensics.[25] However, if the criminal act can only be ascertained to the level of "beyond reasonable doubt" and not to the higher level of "certainty", then, a hundred lashes seem desirable as a punishment for the crime of rape as a deterrent under Ta'azir.[26]

Footnotes:
[1] Statistics from The Royal Malaysian Police, Sourced out from 'Shame, Secrecy and Silence : Study of Rape in Penang', Coordinated and Edited by Rohana Ariffin; Penang : The Women's Crisis Centre, Penang 1997 p 9.
[2] In the year 2000, the number of rape cases had increased to 1,210 (3.3 cases per day) and by 2001, the figure stood at 1,354 (3.7 cases per day) ¾ The Star 4 February 2002 "Cops : One murder, three rape cases reported daily".
[3] The Star 8 December 1999 "Rape Cases on the Rise, Says Study".
[4] e.g. the case of Noor Suzaily Mukhtar, a lady engineer who was raped, sodomised and murdered on a bus on October 7th 2000. School girls Farra Deeba Rustam and Nurul Hanis Kamil, also met the same fate on February 13th and July 3rd 2001 respectively.
[5] Reported number of rape victims in 1995: Malays (645), Chinese (139), Indians (97) Others (124) 'Table 3 : Rape Victim at National Level According to Race (1995)' The Royal Malaysian Police; Sourced out from 'Shame, Secrecy and Silence : Study of Rape in Penang' p 11.
[6] The Star 17 August 2001 "70 Teens Raped and Killed Since 1995".
[7] Even school children are not safe from rape, rape within school compounds Sunday Star 12 February 1995 "Rape Report Leaves Parents Very Worried".
[8] Young girls are lured, kidnapped, gulled and forced into prostitution.
[9] New Straits Times 13 April 2001 "Nine Students Held Over Gang-Rape" and The Star 27 April 2001 "USM Undergrad Charged with Raping Schoolgirl".
[10] The Star 28 March 2002 "Three More Cops Held for Rape".
[11] There is no longer the fear of God in the human heart. There is no longer taqwa (God consciousness). Faith, is deficient. Thus such crimes are prevalent.
[12] 'Shame, Secrecy and Silence : Study of Rape in Penang' p 114.
[13] Ibid. p 9.
[14] "Sahih Muslim Hadith (Abridged)" "Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) said to Ma'iz ibn Malik: Is it true what has reached me about you? He said: What has reached you about me? He said: It has reached me that you have committed (adultery) with the slave girl of so and so? He said: Yes. He (the narrator) said: He testified four times. He (the Prophet) then made pronouncement about him and he was stoned (to death)."
[15] Holy Qur'an 24:2 "The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication flog each of them with a hundred stripes: let not compassion move you in their case in a matter prescribed by Allah if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."
[16] Abdur Rahman I. Doi "Shari'ah: The Islamic Law" London : Ta Ha Publishers 1984 pp 244-246.
[17] Some advocate crucifixion as punishment. Mingguan Malaysia 27 June 1997 "Perogol Dihukum Mati" (Rapist Punished by Death) "Rape falls under the category of Hudud or highway robbery and punishable by execution or crucifixion, of the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land: Crucifixion is considered correct".
[18] See note above (24:2).
[19] The Royal Malaysian Police suggested the death penalty be imposed upon those who commit incest on victims below 12 years old "Perogol Dihukum Mati" (Rapist Punished by Death) op. cit.
[20] Utusan Malaysia, 26 July 2001 "Kanun Keseksaan Dipinda" (Penal Code Amended).
[21] "A study reported 48.8 per cent of incest are committed by natural fathers, 24.4 per cent step fathers" Mingguan Malaysia 27 July 1997 "Cadangan Polis Memang Wajar" (Police Suggestion is Fitting).
[22] Another study of reported cases of incest showed that in 1995 there had been (173 cases) of which incest committed by natural father was (62 cases) or [35.8 per cent], 1996 (200) (father - 65) [32.5 per cent], 1997 January-April (56) (father - 20) [35.7 per cent]. The study classified incest as rape by natural fathers, uncles, natural brothers, grandfathers, close relatives, step fathers, step brothers, brothers-in-law and distant relatives Mingguan Malaysia 27 July 1997 "Jumlah Kes Merogol Keluarga Semakin Meningkat" (Total Rape Cases on the Increase).
[23] "Cadangan Polis Memang Wajar" (Police Suggestion is Fitting) op. cit.
[24] "Sahih Muslim Hadith (Abridged)" "A person belonging to the clan of Aslam, who was called Ma'iz ibn Malik, came to Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) and said: I have committed an immoral crime (adultery), so inflict punishment upon me. Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) turned him away again and again. He then asked his people (about the state of his mind). They said: We do not know of any ailment of his except that he has committed some crime and he thinks that he will not be able to relieve himself of its burden unless the Hadd is imposed upon him. He (Ma'iz) came back to Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) who commanded us to stone him. We took him to the Baqi' al-Gharqad (the graveyard of Medina). We neither tied him nor dug any ditch for him. We attacked him with bones, clods and pebbles. He ran away and we ran after him until he reached the stony ground (al-Harrah) and stopped there and we stoned him with the heavy stones of the Harrah until he became motionless (he died). He (the Holy Prophet) then addressed (us) in the evening saying: Whenever we set forth on an expedition in the cause of Allah, some of those connected with us shrieked (under the pressure of sexual lust) like the bleating of a billy-goat. It is essential that if a person having committed such a deed is brought to me, I should punish him. He neither begged forgiveness for him nor cursed him."
[25] Holy Qur'an 12:26 He said: "It was she that sought to seduce me from my (true) self." And one of her household saw (this) and bore witness (thus) "If it be that his shirt is rent from the front then is her tale true and he is a liar!
[26] See note above on Islamic Jurisprudence for an explanation on Ta'azir.


Posted by Asrul Zamani at 7:37 AM


Source: http://asrulzamani.blogspot.com/2007...-for-rape.html
Reply

Woodrow
10-08-2008, 03:36 AM
This thread has been up for a few days now. I doubt if anymore can be added to it. The conclusion and consensus seems to be the majority of us see rape as a heinous crime and the perpetrators should be dealt with to the full extent of the law, preferably sharia.

:threadclo:
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