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mutlib
04-12-2008, 02:07 PM
A Turkish barber accused of swearing at God is sentenced to death in Saudi Arabia, with his family back in Turkey calling on authorities to intervene.

Sabri Boğday from the southern Hatay province went to Jeddah in Saudi Arabia 11 years ago and opened a barbershop.

According to reports, Boğday argued with his neighbor, an Egyptian tailor, and was arrested after the tailor told the police that he had sworn at God.

While Boğday has been in prison for the past 13 months, the Egyptian who made the allegation has disappeared.

When he was sentenced to death in the last court session and prison authorities came to his cell and told him to call his family for the last time, the family panicked and is now calling for Turkish authorities to intervene. The family also fears Boğday might be executed before the appeals court deals with the matter.

His mother Atra Boğday said her son is a very polite and God-fearing individual, dismissing the claims that he had sworn at God. �His Egyptian neighbor lied. His biggest wish was to save enough money to buy a house for us. But now they will execute him if authorities don't intervene,� she said.

His wife Muazzez said their son was three months old when Sabri was jailed. �I confronted the tailor when my husband's friends told me what happened. He said it's none of his business. We later learnt that he closed down his shop and fled. He didn't attend a single court session.�

Muazzez Boğday said her husband knew the laws of Saudi Arabia well and would never swear. �Even if he did, he would never swear at God. He knows what the punishment would be,� she said.
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/a...enewsid=101552

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yigiter187
04-21-2008, 07:53 AM
yeah yeah we know that s.arabia loves islam very very much that it doesnt allow anybody to swear islam...althouh they live in wealth they dont forget islam(!)...we are expecting arabia to behave the same way against israel...oh but israel doesnt swear , it only damages islam...
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Silver
04-21-2008, 11:17 AM
Wow!!!! Even if he did swear...don't they have other more important issues to deal with instead of executing a poor man who might've not even meant what he said?? I know that he sinned but we all do.
All people have their moments of anger and they do repent later and it's up to God to forgive them or not, and if we were to execute every person who swears there would be very few people left on earth.
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Umar001
04-21-2008, 11:20 AM
I find this ultra hard to believe, specially since the accuser has gone missing, how can the man still be persecuted.

Allah knows best.
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Woodrow
04-21-2008, 11:36 AM
i suspect there is more to this story than what was reported in the Turkish Newspaper.
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Silver
04-21-2008, 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
i suspect there is more to this story than what was reported in the Turkish Newspaper.
Yeah, that makes sense I guess...I don't think they can persecute the man if the accuser fled and there are no other witnesses. It's simply against their laws.
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Malaikah
04-21-2008, 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
i suspect there is more to this story than what was reported in the Turkish Newspaper.
Ditto!
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Pk_#2
04-21-2008, 12:30 PM
If he did, he will be happy to get the punishment am sure,

If he dint, ahh man life sux.
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abdil han
04-21-2008, 01:22 PM
in the turkish news,his family says he is nt such a person who swears God,or somethng bad...

my point is,if the egyption is true,where is he now?
n how the saudis r nt lookng for other witnesses n accusing a person by an ''escaped'' man?
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Fishermans_eye
04-21-2008, 02:04 PM
Saudi Arabia might be the country currently having the holy cities of Medina and Mecca. In 100 years it might be another country. That does not have Riyadh but Cairo.

Saudi Arabia is just another country. It got it's faults as well.
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The_Prince
04-21-2008, 05:34 PM
i too agree with woodrow, there is most likely something more to this story.

remember turkey is a secular country and right now the ultra secularists are having their beef with the goverment for supposedly being too Islamic, so it serves their interest of these seculr turks to write a story like this to to further their secular agenda and anti-Islamic one..........

so dont believe everything u read from this report.
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abdil han
04-21-2008, 08:15 PM
the case was postponed be coz of changing of the judge...
i hope the truth would be enlightened...
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Malaikah
04-22-2008, 07:58 AM
Originally Posted by Fishermans_eye
Saudi Arabia might be the country currently having the holy cities of Medina and Mecca. In 100 years it might be another country. That does not have Riyadh but Cairo.
What, they are going to move Makkah and Madinah to Egypt? :?
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north_malaysian
04-22-2008, 08:53 AM
It's not reasonable for a man to curse God, when he's fighting a person...

I dont believe he did it....

Where is the Egyptian? The witness? How a person could be convicted when the witness couldn't be found for cross-examinations by lawyers?

:exhausted
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yigiter187
04-22-2008, 09:35 AM
if tehre is someone to be punished,it is the man who has a wealthy rich life by expoliting his own countries sources....ı wonder what would arabia do if there were no pterolium and holy cities makka madinah....ı hope turkey will go and biring its innocent citizen.
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Malaikah
04-22-2008, 11:53 AM
Where is your proof that he is innocent, yigiter187?
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------
04-22-2008, 11:55 AM
:salamext:

This is an over exagerration. :-\ Find better things to do with ur time 'o executioners'. There are murderers and rapists out there for gods sake.
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S_87
04-22-2008, 12:13 PM
if he said what it says he has apostasized which is an act punishable by death! why are people complaining? if the court didnt pay any attention to this then we'd have people complaining that saudi arabia allows people to curse Islam. is there no satisfaction?

from arab news:

JEDDAH, 21 April 2008 — The case of a Turkish barber who was sentenced to death at the Jeddah General Court on March 31 on charges of blasphemy will be sent to the Appeals Court in Makkah next week.

Sabri Bogday was sentenced to death after two men, one Saudi and the other Egyptian, reported to the authorities that he had sworn at God and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) at his barbershop in Jeddah early last year.

Bogday was made to appear before three judges — Sheikh Muhammad Al-Aamer, Sheikh Fahd Al-Ammari and Sheikh Ibrahim Al-Lihidan — at the Jeddah General Court on June 13, 2007.

A source told Arab News that Bogday admitted in court to swearing and did not challenge the witnesses’ testimonies. He also said that he was in no conflict with the two witnesses — an important point, since, according to Saudi law, the testimony of an accuser is not accepted if it can be shown that he or she has some ulterior motive.

The source added that the judges did not give Bogday the chance to repent. However, it is unclear whether Bogday continued to insist on the words that he had uttered.

Arab News also learned that the death sentence was based on a “hadd” ruling (a clear verdict based on laws from the Qur’an and Sunnah) and not a “ta’azir” ruling (a judicial interpretation of the Shariah law). In both cases the death sentence can be appealed. However, since the verdict in this case is based on a “hadd” ruling, Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah would not be able to pardon the victim, as was the case in the Qatif Girl’s ruling.

At the final court hearing three weeks ago, a death sentence was announced in spite of Bogday denying that he swore at God and the Prophet (pbuh). The ruling was issued based on the witnesses’ testimonies and Bogday’s previous admission in court.

According to Abdul Rahman Al-Lahem, a Riyadh-based lawyer, some judges consider blasphemy heresy and infidelity, and say that the accused cannot repent and would face the death penalty. Others consider the statement to be disbelief and would allow the accused to retract his words.

“The majority of Muslim jurists demand that the accused must be given a chance to repent. Sometimes, those accused are not raised in a proper Islamic environment and are unaware of the consequences and meanings of certain words. Cases such as these are very sensitive, and so the trial must adhere to strict procedures and double check the two witnesses’ eligibility to testify,” said Al-Lahem.

Officials at the Turkish Consulate in Jeddah, when contacted, said they were not allowed to comment on the case and that it is being dealt with by the Turkish Foreign Ministry.

Sources said officials from the Turkish Consulate did visit the Jeddah General Court at the beginning of the trial, but did not assign Bogday a lawyer.

Hussein Al-Sharif, head of the National Human Rights Society (NSHR) for the Makkah Province and a professor of law at King Abdulaziz University, said that he hopes the Turkish Consulate will intervene and assign a lawyer for the Appeals Court.

“The verdict is primary and not final. There are three stages that the case must go through before an execution can take place,” said Al-Sharif, adding that the case would go to the Appeals Court, the Supreme Judicial Council and to Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah for final approval.

“Till today the society has not received any complaint about the case or a call to intervene. We have observed it through the media and will follow it up with officials, check the facts and offer any possible help,” said Al-Sharif.

“We’ll send an NSHR representative to visit Bogday in prison to get first hand information as soon as possible,” he added.
http://arabnews.com/?page=1&section=...=21&m=4&y=2008
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------
04-22-2008, 12:16 PM
:salamext:

^ I didnt see the bit where he cursed Islaam. I thought he was simply swearing. :-\
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S_87
04-22-2008, 12:18 PM
^^ yeh the title is misleading like he just said some curse and is in trouble for that lol
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Umar001
04-22-2008, 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by amani
if he said what it says he has apostasized which is an act punishable by death! why are people complaining? if the court didnt pay any attention to this then we'd have people complaining that saudi arabia allows people to curse Islam. is there no satisfaction?
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahamatullah,

Jazakumullahu khayr,

Thanks sis for the article, I think people complained because the way it seemed in the other articles was taht two people argued, one accused the other and then ran away and this guy was framed with no help. That's why, not because they just want to escuse the individual.

I for one thought that there must be something else going on, and I am glad that it is not just a case of evident misjustice.

Allah knows best.
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Keltoi
04-22-2008, 12:55 PM
God knows best, but it isn't God putting the man on trial with a punishment of execution if found guilty. Just something to consider...
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yigiter187
04-24-2008, 02:00 PM
ı have just seen the wife of accused turk barber..she says "my husband didnt swear islam..he is already muslim..he doesnt admit swearing islam..""""
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Malaikah
04-24-2008, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by yigiter187
ı have just seen the wife of accused turk barber..she says "my husband didnt swear islam..he is already muslim..he doesnt admit swearing islam..""""
His wifes words aren't exactly the best evidence... seeing as how she was living in a different country at the time of the accused event.:omg:

Originally Posted by Keltoi
God knows best, but it isn't God putting the man on trial with a punishment of execution if found guilty. Just something to consider...
No, but God is the one who ordained the punishment in the first place.
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Al-Zaara
04-24-2008, 03:06 PM
The majority of Muslim jurists demand that the accused must be given a chance to repent. Sometimes, those accused are not raised in a proper Islamic environment and are unaware of the consequences and meanings of certain words. Cases such as these are very sensitive, and so the trial must adhere to strict procedures and double check the two witnesses’ eligibility to testify,” said Al-Lahem.
Bold part: Good!!

A source told Arab News? I dunno, I trust none of these too much. But what hit me was the man must have been in prison for many months now, isn't that a sign that the evidences aren't really waterproof? According to another news the Egyptian tailor has fled and shut down his shop. That is suspicious too.

Also, I find it ridicilous to go to the police because of what was done and now give this man so much trouble (and himself probably) where it could have been solved easier I believe, it just kinda shows the two of them didn't get on well.

Oh and another thing makes me worried, is that the relations between Saudi and Turkey will most probably get even worse if they go ahead with executing this man. As said before, there are worse cases indeed.
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Tania
04-24-2008, 03:18 PM
Always when i read about saudi i am glad i don't live there. I can't understand at all their so called "justice" - black magic which can't be proved, swearing with runnaway witnesses, under 18 hired like nannies.
I can't understand whats the big fault of this poor man
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Umar001
04-24-2008, 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
Bold part: Good!!

A source told Arab News? I dunno, I trust none of these too much. But what hit me was the man must have been in prison for many months now, isn't that a sign that the evidences aren't really waterproof? According to another news the Egyptian tailor has fled and shut down his shop. That is suspicious too.
It could also be testimony that trials take a long time, if I am not mistaken there was an article about Saudi not having enough judges or something. Also it could be evidence that the case is so clear that they've detained him this long even though they've had to wait for a trail date.

I mean, all we can do from here is speculate, I can't imagine any human being would convict a man on bad evidence, that is the only thing that keeps me from thinking that what we read of egyptian man running away and so forth not being true.

At the same time I cant believe that the turkish man would confess in the court. That's truly unbeliveable to me.



And Allah knows best.

Originally Posted by Tania
Always when i read about saudi i am glad i don't live there. I can't understand at all their so called "justice" - black magic which can't be proved, swearing with runnaway witnesses, under 18 hired like nannies.
I can't understand whats the big fault of this poor man
There maybe certain styles of desecration of the Qur'an which is done by those practicing such magic, various other evidences, how can you say it cannot be proved? I think it could. Wether it was I dont know, all the information we have is from my view suspicious, everyone could have a reason for lieing.

As for the man, what if he did commit and act which deemed his death and there was enough evidence to convict him?

We simply don't know, I'm not taking either side, Im just saying we do not know at all to feel sorry or not feel sorry.
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Tania
04-24-2008, 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi

As for the man, what if he did commit and act which deemed his death and there was enough evidence to convict him?

We simply don't know, I'm not taking either side, Im just saying we do not know at all to feel sorry or not feel sorry.
If he said something not very proper about islam, it was may be at a time of anger and that was. But to kill him for that, that i will never understand.
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Umar001
04-24-2008, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by Tania
If he said something not very proper about islam, it was may be at a time of anger and that was. But to kill him for that, that i will never understand.
I understand, and I do see the poiint, but for example in one news report it states:

However, it is unclear whether Bogday continued to insist on the words that he had uttered.

So he may not have had a chance to repent, but that maybe for various reasons? Maybe because he, in a calm and aware state, still stood by such stuff.

This is what I mean, it is so confusing for us all to be trying to understand on the words of different articles when we dont know what the actual accuracy of those articles are.
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Tania
04-24-2008, 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
So he may not have had a chance to repent, but that maybe for various reasons? Maybe because he, in a calm and aware state, still stood by such stuff.
In this case he should be advised, you know like a teacher explain to the student why is this...Killing him doesn't solve the problem.
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Umar001
04-24-2008, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by Tania
In this case he should be advised, you know like a teacher explain to the student why is this...Killing him doesn't solve the problem.
Well, I see what you mean, but as Muslims we can only advice people so much, an individual who knows what he is saying and doing is responsible.

I am sure you understand that Muslims, as well as some other faiths, believe that God sent laws which should be implimented.
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Al-Zaara
04-24-2008, 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
I mean, all we can do from here is speculate, I can't imagine any human being would convict a man on bad evidence, that is the only thing that keeps me from thinking that what we read of egyptian man running away and so forth not being true.
I'm not implying anything, but there have been such cases in many parts of the world. So I don't trust the human nature so to speak. There are those freaks out there.

And Allah knows best.
Allah knows best.

Originally Posted by Tania
If he said something not very proper about islam, it was may be at a time of anger and that was. But to kill him for that, that i will never understand.
To be honest, I too have trouble at times to understand this, if I even understand it.

Allah knows best..
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Pygoscelis
04-24-2008, 09:39 PM
Religion is a stupid reason to kill people. It happens too much.
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yigiter187
04-25-2008, 07:54 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
His wifes words aren't exactly the best evidence... seeing as how she was living in a different country at the time of the accused event.:omg:


No, but God is the one who ordained the punishment in the first place.
yes his wife is not a good evidence but an unknown egyptian is a good evidence...:?...allah says " dont swear to anyones religion,otherwise he swears your religon,islam" ...then ı conclude from this..."when you swear to someones religion,he swears your religion...then kill him...""""":?
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Malaikah
04-25-2008, 08:45 AM
the Egyptian was not unknown... and other news sources mention that there was also a Saudi witness.
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yigiter187
04-25-2008, 11:20 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
the Egyptian was not unknown... and other news sources mention that there was also a Saudi witness.
there are milloins of witnesses that danish,dutch swear islam..then what are we waiting for..why dont muslims kill them?:?
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Malaikah
04-26-2008, 05:44 AM
They don't live under Islamic rule, that's why. We have no authority or right to harm them at all.
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yigiter187
04-26-2008, 08:20 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
They don't live under Islamic rule, that's why. We have no authority or right to harm them at all.
lets dont say it like that..does islamic rules change according to time? if islam commands to kill ppl swearing islam,it doesnt matter where the swearing person is..
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Malaikah
04-26-2008, 09:35 AM
Sister you have to follow the law of the country you live in! Only the government has the right to punish people and the government in Denmark is not Islamic, therefore no one can touch anyone who does an Islamic crime in Denmark if that crime is legal there.

You have to understand that Islamic law can only be applied in Muslim countries or by the Muslims who have official authority.

Anyway, i don't know if this punishment applies to non-Muslim in the first place.
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yigiter187
04-26-2008, 11:42 AM
then ı can say..islam doesnt want to kill person who swears islam but saudi arabia does...?
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Umar001
04-26-2008, 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by yigiter187
then ı can say..islam doesnt want to kill person who swears islam but saudi arabia does...?
No, I dont think you understand, the rulings change from time to time, i.e. for example, a woman has to pray, but not when she is having her period. Does that mean Islam has changed? No, it means that the rulings change sometimes and somtimes they do not.

Similarly Islam might teach x but only when the right circumstances are in place.
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abdil han
04-26-2008, 10:05 PM
if he said so by a healthy mind,i dont say anythng to saudi practice,but it should be proved certainly..

as a turk,i dont second someone just becoz of being from my nation,islam is over nations...

but the proves,witneses have to be trustable...

Allah knows the best n inshaAllah he didnt swear islam,,amin..
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S_87
04-26-2008, 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by yigiter187
lets dont say it like that..does islamic rules change according to time? if islam commands to kill ppl swearing islam,it doesnt matter where the swearing person is..
as you see with the case the egyptian and saudi didnt kill him but the case itself had to go through a proper shariah court where proof and evidence had to be properly investigated.
if turkey implements shariah thered by shriah courts and so such cases could then be made.
cant just go chopping heads off...
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kirk
05-07-2008, 02:54 AM
If he is guilty of swearing at God and the prophet, what is the punishment under Islam law ( not the punishment under Saudi law!)

-
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ranma1/2
05-08-2008, 02:59 PM
one of these days god will come up and say... hey i can take care of myself leave the kid alone.
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anatolian
05-09-2008, 01:40 PM
I have listened to some people who lived in KSA for a while and they generally told some similar stories about the absurdities of the Saudi laws...they say that in KSA they don't take your advocacy so seriously if you're foreigner...

Are there any Saudi here?
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chacha_jalebi
05-09-2008, 01:51 PM
thread has gone more off then a old mans rottin teeth:(

:threadclo
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