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View Full Version : 73 year old Austrian confesses to imprisoning daughter for 24 years



Ali.
04-28-2008, 05:40 PM
:sl:

I hope you are all doing well. Now; time to share with you one of the most shocking stories I have ever encountered.



A 73-year-old Austrian today confessed to imprisoning, beating and sexually abusing his daughter in a windowless cellar for 24 years, during which time he fathered her seven children.

Josef Fritzl admitted forcing his daughter Elisabeth into the basement of the family's home in Amstetten, north-west Austria, on August 24 1984, when she was 18.

Franz Pölzer, the head of the criminal investigations unit in the province of Lower Austria, said Fritzl had admitted abduction, incest and abuse.

Holding up a picture of the 73-year-old, he told a press conference: "This man led a double life for 24 years. He deceived everybody. He deceived his wife and the legal system."

After initially denying the crimes, Fritzl later admitted locking up his daughter, now aged 42, beating and sexually abusing her and fathering her children, Pölzer said.

"Even the most experienced members of the criminal police found it shocking," he added.

Three of the seven children never saw sunlight.

One died three days after birth, and Fritzl admitted taking the baby's body from the cellar and burning it. He is expected to appear in court later today.

Police have distributed several photos showing parts of the cramped basement cell in which Elisabeth and her children were kept.

Earlier, a police spokesman said Elisabeth was "psychologically extremely disturbed", but that her version of events was "completely believable".

She claimed her father had abused her since she was 11. "In her own words, she was continuously abused by her father," the spokesman added.

Police said many questions remained in the case, which is reminiscent of that of the Austrian girl Natascha Kampusch, who was abducted, aged 10, on her way to school in 1998 and locked in a windowless cell before escaping in August 2006.

Today, the Austrian daily newspaper Der Standard said in an editorial: "The whole country must ask itself just what is really, fundamentally going wrong."

Franz Prucher, the security director for Lower Austria, insisted Austria "is no more rotten than other countries".

The nation's interior minister, Günther Platter, said: "We are being confronted with an unfathomable crime."

Police said Fritzl, an electrical engineering technician by training, had told investigators how to enter the basement prison through a small hidden door,operated by a remote control nly he had known about.

His wife, Rosemarie, had been unaware of what happened to Elisabeth.

It is believed she assumed her daughter had disappeared voluntarily after a letter in her writing to her parents said they should not search for her.

The drama began to unravel last weekend when Elisabeth's 19-year-old daughter, Kerstin, who lived in the cellar, was left at a hospital with a life-threatening illness.

A search for Elisabeth increased in urgency as Kerstin's condition worsened.

The plight of the mother and children was discovered on Saturday night when Elisabeth and her father appeared together at the hospital.

They were taken to the nearby police station, where he was arrested for sexually abusing his daughter and holding her captive.

Kerstin is said to be in a critical condition, suffering from an unknown illness, in the intensive care unit of Krems hospital.

Elisabeth had agreed to speak to police only after being assured that she and her children would never again have contact with her father.

They said it appeared that, when Fritzl imprisoned his daughter in 1984, he had given the impression she had left home of her own will. She remained on the Interpol missing persons list.

Police investigators at the time were of the view that she might have become a member of a sect.

On various occasions between 1993 and 2002, Fritzl claimed his daughter had left three children on his doorstep along with notes asking him to look after them.

Authorities gave the couple permission to become foster parents to what were assumed to be their grandchildren.

But, according to police, Elisabeth had given birth to the children, along with four others including the one that died, in her cellar prison. Her father had removed the children.

Of the six children - three boys and three girls aged between five and 20 - five-year-old Felix, Stefan, 18, and Kerstin lived with their mother in the cellar.

"She taught them how to speak," Pölzer said, adding that Josef had provided food and clothing, but the children never received any professional medical care.

Asked why the children had not tried to over power their father, the police chief said: "These children were born into jail … they knew nothing else".

He described the oldest boy as "small and weak", saying Fritzl was "authoritarian and domineering". He added that Elisabeth "realized that was useless to battle against incarceration".

Forensic scientists were searching the cellar yesterday, while others combed the grounds of the house.

"There are things that you just don't want to see," a policeman at the house said. "The fewer pictures you have in your head, the better."

One neighbour said Fritzl had been "inconspicuous" and "always greeted us in a friendly way".

Another said she had often seen Rosemarie with her grandchildren. "She is really very nice, taking the grandchildren to school - but we knew nothing of what was really going on," she added.

Psychiatrist Max Friedrich, who treated Kampusch, said the children were undergoing tests in hospital, in particular for problems with their eyes and skin because of their lack of exposure to daylight.

"Socially the [children] could not develop any sort of sense of community which they would get from going to school or playgroup," he told Reuters.

Source



I am speechless.






Update

Unanswered questions and suspicions
Not only did he keep his daughter in a cellar for 24 years, but he murdered a woman aswell?

Although, I am still suspicious about the wife not knowing and when he went to Thailand - he can't have left a store of food and gone.

Update 2

He threatened to gas his daughter and the children if they tried to escape!
Progression as the children try to adjust to the real world.

Update 3

"My father chose me for himself", words of Elisabeth
Josef Fritzl's punishment chambers explored

Update 4

More news on the reunion of mother and children, but Fritzl could NOT be going to jail!

Update 5

Fritzl began building cellar six years before seizing daughter, plus information about a 500kg door and more for entrance to the dungeon where Elizabeth was kept.

Update 6

Fritzl confesses to 'out-of-control addiction'
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glo
04-28-2008, 08:03 PM
That's such a horrendous story! :cry:
May God aid the physical, emotional and mental recovery of Elisabeth and her children.

I cannot believe that this guy's wife would not have at least supected something ...
Reply

truemuslim
04-28-2008, 08:07 PM
I am speechless.
:eek: wow me too...

whats going on with this twisted world!


oh i know...

not enough islam!!

His wife is probably a liar too!
Reply

glo
04-29-2008, 07:03 AM
Here is an interesting article on the psychological effects, the imprisoned family may have experienced.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7370889.stm

[...]
"Potentially, the children could have led tolerably rich social lives - there were four people there, at least three of them for a long period of time. This isn't a story about a child being locked in a closet all by himself," he told the BBC News website.

He said that in terms of the five-year-old, he would have been unlikely to have known what he was missing.

"As a youngster, your immediate environment is your whole world," he says.

"If there were books, games and a TV, there were things for all the children to make a psychological life around. It need not be as atrocious as it might first appear," he says.

However, Professor Belsky stressed that much of this would be dependent on the mother's mental state.

"It's hard to imagine that her own mental well-being was not compromised, and this would have undermined her ability to support and nurture her children," he says.
[...]
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Abdul-Raouf
04-29-2008, 07:39 AM
Death is the least punishment for that 73yr old animal.
Its time...Bring in Islamic Law....So that everyone fears to do crime.

:exhausted

May ALLAH guide her and her children to the right path.
Reply

Souljette
04-29-2008, 09:12 AM
He needs to be tortured continuously and then killed :@
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-29-2008, 09:18 AM
Originally Posted by Souljette
He needs to be tortured continuously and then killed :@
Agreed - minus the killed part



its times like this im thankful that a jahannam exists.

may Allah protect us from it, Ameen
Reply

------
04-29-2008, 09:21 AM
:salamext:

Pathetic little git.
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Snowflake
04-29-2008, 09:57 AM
This has gotto be the worse case of it's type I've heard of.. Yet is isn't an isolated one. There have been numerous cases like this, but the girls escaped earlier.
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Malaikah
04-29-2008, 10:44 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Agreed - minus the killed part
What?? I can't imagine a person who deserves the death sentence more than him! :raging:

its times like this im thankful that a jahannam exists.
Agreed!
Reply

☆•♥°ąყ℮Տիმ°♥•☆
04-29-2008, 10:48 AM
:sl:
This has been in the news constantly since yesterday...
How very sad..
Completely unforgivable...
I hope that animal Rots. :raging:
:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-29-2008, 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
What?? I can't imagine a person who deserves the death sentence more than him! :raging:

!
let him suffer on dunya and then suffer in akhirah.

or maybe its better to hasten his suffering straight to akhirah?
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Malaikah
04-29-2008, 11:12 AM
The suffering of this life is nothing compared to the punishment of the grave...
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S_87
04-29-2008, 03:08 PM
la Hawla wa la quwata illah billah
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Mysterious Uk
04-29-2008, 03:16 PM
I saw the pictures in the newspaper, the dungeon was 1.7m high and 60sq m in total, it was accessed through a 1m by 50cm hole, electronically sealed by a concrete door.

I don't believe the mother new nothing about it, it's been 24 years how can she not know her daughter lived below her...

Anyway, Inshallah the victims of this will recover and get all the help they need.
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rozeena
04-29-2008, 03:19 PM
:cry::cry::cry: i cant explain how i feel in words after reading that, :cry: :cry::cry::cry:
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nadia85
04-29-2008, 03:34 PM
Shocking story i was reading about it in the newspaper this morning,but it s hard 2 belive hi wife had no idea
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Al-Zaara
04-29-2008, 04:37 PM
This was the weirdest and one of the most sick news I have ever heard.

Originally Posted by Mysterious Uk
I don't believe the mother new nothing about it, it's been 24 years how can she not know her daughter lived below her...
Maybe she knew and allowed it. There are some interesting pshyological articles I have read that say something about a wife's jealousy towards her daugther and the consequences that can occur and examples from real life cases too.


Anyway, Inshallah the victims of this will recover and get all the help they need.
Amiin, inshaAllah!!
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Souljette
04-29-2008, 06:05 PM
Ameen inshallah
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czgibson
04-29-2008, 06:31 PM
Greetings,

This is horrible, just horrible.

Amazing to think that the wife bought the story about the daughter having disappeared, when all the time she was hidden in the cellar. A policeman who went down there said it was so deep that you could shout your head off and still not be heard from above.

Human evil continues to find disgusting ways to express itself.

Peace
Reply

جوري
04-29-2008, 06:43 PM
this man has also fatherd his own grandchildren.. I am amused the regulars aren't fighting for their rights the way they do for sodomy?...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/cel...234762072.html

Cellar girl bore seven children
Email Printer friendly version Normal font Large font Kate Connolly in Berlin
April 29, 2008


Daughter … Elisabeth Fritzl says she was abused from the age of 11.

AUTHORITIES in Austria are trying to piece together the details of how a 73-year-old man kept his daughter imprisoned in a windowless cellar for 24 years while he repeatedly raped her and fathered her seven children.

Police said Elisabeth Fritzl, 42, told them her father, Josef, had lured her to the basement of the block where the family lived in Amstetten, north-west Austria, on August 24, 1984, and allegedly drugged and handcuffed her before locking her in the dungeon. A police spokesman said she was "psychologically extremely disturbed" but her version of events was "completely believable".

She said she had been abused by her father from the age of 11 and that she had borne seven children by him, including twins, one of whom died in 1996 after just three days. The father allegedly removed the body from the cellar and burnt it.

Three of the children born in the basement - now 19, 18 and 5 - never left it, police said, and saw daylight for the first time only on Sunday.

Josef's wife, Rosemarie, had apparently been unaware of what happened to her daughter and is believed to have assumed she had disappeared voluntarily, after receiving letters saying they should not search for her.

Elisabeth was on the Interpol missing persons list. Police investigators later thought she might have joined a sect.

Josef is said to have told his wife and the authorities that Elisabeth had left the three other surviving babies on their doorstep at different times. Each delivery was accompanied by a letter purportedly signed by Elisabeth saying she could not support the child because she already had others to care for.

Joseph and Rosemarie adopted the three, who went to school as normal, seemingly unaware that their mother and three siblings were trapped.

The case is reminiscent of that of another Austrian girl, Natascha Kampusch, who was abducted, aged 10, on her way to school and locked in a windowless cell before dashing to freedom in August 2006.

Austrian papers yesterday asked how the local community could have been unaware of what was going on in the basement of the housing block. "The whole country must ask itself just what is really, fundamentally going wrong," the daily Der Standard wrote in an editorial.

After interrogation, Josef, an electrical engineering technician by training, told police how to enter the basement prison through a small hidden door, operated by a code only he knew.

The drama began to unravel last weekend when Elizabeth's daughter, Kerstin, 19, who lived in the cellar, was left at a hospital with a life-threatening illness. On Saturday night Elisabeth and Josef appeared together at the hospital.

They were taken to a police station, where he was arrested. Elizabeth agreed to speak to police only after being assured that she and her children would never again have contact with her father. DNA tests will be carried out in the next few days.

Guardian News & Media,

The New York Times,

Reuters, Agence France-Presse
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
04-29-2008, 06:47 PM
Na Audhubillah :raging: How sickening!
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جوري
04-29-2008, 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


1. What makes you think that this man's crimes are in any way comparable to sodomy between consenting adults?
I have drawn my comparisons on various forms of sexual deviations using the DSM on various threads of this forum addressing homosexuality. If interested in my views you may use the search option.
2. Are you suggesting that these grandchildren should have no rights?

Peace
Where have I suggested that?
Reply

MTAFFI
04-29-2008, 08:18 PM
what a disgusting pig, i read about this a couple days ago... On one hand I think he should be dismembered and possibly skinned, on the other I think he should simply be beheaded or gased or injected or hung, to remove his disgusting skin sack from this world swiftly

As for his daughter (aka object of torment) and their "children"... May Allah (swt) have mercy on them and help them through the rest of their lives :(
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barney
04-29-2008, 08:25 PM
Yeah, awful story.
Weird how Austria had a similar thing a few years back, the kid was held 8 years.

Hope the kids will eb ok, but after such a long time its sadly unlikely they will ever have a normal life.
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جوري
04-29-2008, 08:25 PM
I read a case like that last year which I can't find at the moment, except it was a brother and a sister, with incestuous offspring and their laywer simply said..'who are we to define a family unit?'-- I really do keep wondering where this world is heading?!...

Every day they push the envelope on degeneracy.. finding new laws to make depravity legal.. I wouldn't be surprised if tons more cases as such turn up until people coupulate like donkeys on the street if they don't already in some parts.. which by the way should mark as a sign of the end!

:w:
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FatimaAsSideqah
04-29-2008, 08:27 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Naudhubillah! Such a horrendous story ever I've read about!!
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glo
04-29-2008, 09:06 PM
Elisabeth Fritzl is pretty much my age.
If I think of the life experiences I have had since I was 18, I cannot begin to imagine what it must have been like to spend all that time in one place only, seeing only the faces of very few other human beings ... and suffering repeated abuse as well!

Can you imagine going through pregnancy, childbirth, child rearing, sickness, loneliness etc without any support from other people???
What a burden this poor woman must have carried! :cry:
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glo
04-29-2008, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
On one hand I think he should be dismembered and possibly skinned, on the other I think he should simply be beheaded or gased or injected or hung, to remove his disgusting skin sack from this world swiftly
:(
What would that achieve?

Would it give back his daughter the life she has missed?
Would it give back his grandchildren their childhoods?
Would it bring healing to this traumatised family and the wider community?
Would it help him to feel remorse for his actions?
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barney
04-29-2008, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
I read a case like that last year which I can't find at the moment, except it was a brother and a sister, with incestuous offspring and their laywer simply said..'who are we to define a family unit?'-- I really do keep wondering where this world is heading?!...

Every day they push the envelope on degeneracy.. finding new laws to make depravity legal.. I wouldn't be surprised if tons more cases as such turn up until people coupulate like donkeys on the street if they don't already in some parts.. which by the way should mark as a sign of the end!

:w:
It was and is illeagal, the gusy arrested, he will be punished. If they said they were going to let him go and good luck to him, I'd say you have a point in this case.

General western slackness in giving criminals more human rights than the victim. Yeah, i agree. Crime should be shown not to pay. You dont have to chop off hands or heads to do that though.
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barney
04-29-2008, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by glo
What would that achieve?

Would it give back his daughter the life she has missed?
Would it give back his grandchildren their childhoods?
Would it bring healing to this traumatised family and the wider community?
Would it help him to feel remorse for his actions?
No, but It would make vengeful people feel better and act as a detterent to others. It would also drag the world into a mad evil barbaric, (barbaric being wantonly cruel rather than a decendents of the barbary coast) intolerant and sick place.
I dont think this guy will be fed into a toaster. I dont think justice will prevail as it should.
I think hard labour, despite his age, is a fair sentance. Hard labour and solitary till he dies.
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جوري
04-29-2008, 10:01 PM
I just don't understand people like you.. A roof over his head and three square meals from tax payers money maybe even a psych. consult so he can get off easy with reason of insanity, whilst people die every year of starvation, homelessness, and disease or something as stupid as dehydration..

Next time you get sick.. pls ask for the weaker antibiotic, you know the one that renders you sicker longer preferably until others catch your disease and acquire resistance to the meds--
sheesh
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barney
04-29-2008, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
I just don't understand people like you.. A roof over his head and three square meals from tax payers money maybe even a psych. consult so he can get off easy with reason of insanity, whilst people die every year of starvation, homelessness, and disease or something as stupid as dehydration..

Next time you get sick.. pls ask for the weaker antibiotic, you know the one that renders you sicker longer preferably until others catch your disease and acquire resistance to the meds--
sheesh

OK, I'll try that. Perhaps it will teach me not to ask for hardlabour for life for a 73 year old Kidnapper Rapist Incestuous scumbag.
I'll increase my monthly standing order to Oxfam as well to match yours.

Totally confubbled.
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جوري
04-29-2008, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by barney
OK, I'll try that. Perhaps it will teach me not to ask for hardlabour for life for a 73 year old Kidnapper Rapist Incestuous scumbag.
I'll increase my monthly standing order to Oxfam as well to match yours.

Totally confubbled.
I don't think his age mattered much to his 'member' forgive the euphemism..
and I don't think anyone here can teach you anything.. you already know everything with a sprinkle of cinnamon and a cherry on top!

cheers
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aamirsaab
04-29-2008, 10:19 PM
:sl:
What the hell?!

I mean, seriously, what the hell?!
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جوري
04-29-2008, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by glo
What would that achieve?
Justice!.. where indeed it might never conciliate any of your afore mentioned list.. one can take a solace in the fact that he isn't sharing a planet with other humans or causing harm to others!


cheers
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barney
04-29-2008, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
What the hell?!

I mean, seriously, what the hell?!
Shrug.:eek:

I wonder what kind of control he had over them all? All those years, wasted.
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aadil77
04-29-2008, 10:24 PM
two words: sad , sick+o(

I read that the children had difficulties adjusting to daylight, as they had never seen it before
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chacha_jalebi
04-29-2008, 10:26 PM
now now kiddos lets not fight :D

i do sincerly hope he gets put to death, there is no point in makin him rot in jail, im sure the in-mates will try to kill him anyway lol, so jus put him to death, he deserves it anyway

and also the wifes role, i highly question that she didnt know, out of the 7, 3 he raised in his own, claimin someone left them outside the door, someone leaves a child at your door once, that would be a hugely unusual thing, but to happen 3 times psssssh!!!
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barney
04-29-2008, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
now now kiddos lets not fight :D

!!!
We are squabbling. We have ignore buttons but really enjoy the rant:D
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جوري
04-29-2008, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
now now kiddos lets not fight :D

i do sincerly hope he gets put to death, there is no point in makin him rot in jail, im sure the in-mates will try to kill him anyway lol, so jus put him to death, he deserves it anyway

and also the wifes role, i highly question that she didnt know, out of the 7, 3 he raised in his own, claimin someone left them outside the door, someone leaves a child at your door once, that would be a hugely unusual thing, but to happen 3 times psssssh!!!
couldn't write this stuff up in the most grotesque of fiction...
Sometimes I read crap like this and I think, some dude just made that stuff up.. but he needs to tweak it a bit for believability..
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chacha_jalebi
04-29-2008, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by barney
We are squabbling. We have ignore buttons but really enjoy the rant:D
yes indeed! dont we all:statisfie

now back on topic:D
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chacha_jalebi
04-29-2008, 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
couldn't write this stuff up in the most grotesque of fiction...
Sometimes I read crap like this and I think, some dude just made that stuff up.. but he needs to tweak it a bit for believability..
yup, there have been loads of weirdoo stories, dunno whats happenin to the world!!
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Mikayeel
04-29-2008, 10:36 PM
:w:, i can't believe she was trapped for 24 years, jus sitting there without trying to escape or do anything!
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جوري
04-29-2008, 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
yup, there have been loads of weirdoo stories, dunno whats happenin to the world!!
weirdos are allowed to breed instead of being spayed or neutered-- it isn't like bob parker hasn't been warning you about this for ages...

eh I wasted my half day off on this forum.. blimey :raging:
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barney
04-29-2008, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
:w:, i can't believe she was trapped for 24 years, jus sitting there without trying to escape or do anything!

It goes back to the control I was talking about. They are brought up in an environment where they are taught to go outside or to question their father is unthinkable.
They would probably no more want to disobay him than eat the wall or carpet. It just isnt an issue for them. At some point for the older one, she would have accepted her life as it was, and then the very idea of the world would seem terrifying.

Psychological control can be more powerful than anyone can imagine.
Best comparison is the fear of hell.
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-Elle-
04-29-2008, 10:58 PM
It's cases like these that make me sick to my stomac.

I won't even say"Oh,how devastating," or,"she and the children must have suffered a lot",because in truth,I wouldn't have the SLIGHTEST idea(alhamdulillah!) what they must have felt and endured during those years.

For the children,they were literally born into it;they've never known anything else but the life they've led(locked up,deprived from everything and anything,and so on,they've never even seen daylight for crying out loud), so I really don't know how they must have felt.nevertheless,this is completly inhuman;they obviously suffered...
but the mother...I've read about horrible faiths on this earth;but this..this surpasses the limits...

People who experience one of these horrible acts((rape,kidnapping,etc..) have been scarred for life and some of them have a hard time getting well again(who can blame them..) and moving on...but this woman went through a multitude of devastating life experiences all at the same time,for an ENDLESS(24 years!come on!) amount of time...

*[sigh]*

This really got me thinking..
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truemuslim
04-30-2008, 12:12 AM
I SAY WE SKIN HIM!
im kiddin. if u will do that u better do it awwaaay from me. i get sick seein chickens get ...decapitated...and then skinned! Ewwww

anyway

that lady had an army wit her why couldnt she and her kids beat up that old man! silly silly women...i fink she respected ur daddy too much...to da bad level...

oh also i turned on the tv and saw this first thing and saw the basement and wooow soooo tiny and sickkk i feel so sorry for dem all.
May allah guide her and her kids to islam inshallah
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Malaikah
04-30-2008, 09:35 AM
Originally Posted by glo
What would that achieve?

Would it give back his daughter the life she has missed?
Would it give back his grandchildren their childhoods?
Would it bring healing to this traumatised family and the wider community?
Would it help him to feel remorse for his actions?
Justice. Really, does it even need to be said?

He has had 24 long years to feel remorse. Time wasted long ago if you ask me!
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MTAFFI
04-30-2008, 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by glo
What would that achieve?

Would it give back his daughter the life she has missed?
Would it give back his grandchildren their childhoods?
Would it bring healing to this traumatised family and the wider community?
Would it help him to feel remorse for his actions?
a better question is what does the alternative achieve? Lets look at the two for a sec.,

Option A
Lock Him in prison and force him into "hard labor"

There, IMO, are many issues with this, 1) he is 73, what kind of hard labor, other than raping his family members, is his old disgusting self capable of doing? 2) Why pay to feed and cloth and take care of him? 3) How does the daughter and her children feel about the man who was allowed to take full advantage of her mind, body and soul for 24 years, being able to live out the rest of his days (maybe a quarter of what she was kept), in what some homeless and less fortunate might consider a luxury suite at the hilton? 4) What does the man ultimately learn from that? Please be very specific, because I seriously doubt that in what short portion of his life he may have left, he will ever be able to sincerely regret his decisions and even if he does who gives a big fat sh*t

Option B
Put Him to Death

1) He doesnt exist 2) they get to watch his punishment come to life and him to death for his atrocity 3) They can live the rest of their life without any fear that he could escape and abduct them again or do the same to some other poor individual(s) 4) Nobody is forced to pay for this garbage to live or be clothed, etc. 5) There is no fear to people like this, greater than death, it is a far better determent than any other in existence short of having your nails pulled out with pliers, or some other form of sick torture

Finally, do you feel as though Allah (swt) wishes for this individual to carry out the rest of his life? I understand that Allah (swt) is the all merciful God, and that upon our creation he loves us each equally, but this man will have a direct ticket to hell, the crime he has committed is a dark extension from the devil himself in my opinion..

Think what you wish though, it isnt as if what me or you say on this forum will have any real effect on the outcome of his sentencing, it is simply opinion.. Thanks for sharing it by the way. :)
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glo
04-30-2008, 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by barney
No, but It would make vengeful people feel better and act as a detterent to others. It would also drag the world into a mad evil barbaric, (barbaric being wantonly cruel rather than a decendents of the barbary coast) intolerant and sick place.
I dont think this guy will be fed into a toaster. I dont think justice will prevail as it should.
I think hard labour, despite his age, is a fair sentance. Hard labour and solitary till he dies.
They were talking about a potential sentence of 15 years imprisonment ... that's by far less than what he subjected his daughter and grandchildren to ... :cry:
Reply

glo
04-30-2008, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Finally, do you feel as though Allah (swt) wishes for this individual to carry out the rest of his life? I understand that Allah (swt) is the all merciful God, and that upon our creation he loves us each equally, but this man will have a direct ticket to hell, the crime he has committed is a dark extension from the devil himself in my opinion..
I don't assume to know what God's plans are for this man.

Do you not think that your suggestion that Allah may not 'wish for this individual to carry out the rest of his life' may be based on your human desire for justice and fairness, rather than on Allah's wishes?

Think what you wish though, it isnt as if what me or you say on this forum will have any real effect on the outcome of his sentencing, it is simply opinion.. Thanks for sharing it by the way. :)
Same here, brother. :)
Salaam
Reply

Ali.
04-30-2008, 03:25 PM
Some 'updates';

Unanswered questions and suspicions
Not only did he keep his daughter in a cellar for 24 years, but he murdered a woman aswell?

Although, I am still suspicious about the wife not knowing and when he went to Thailand - he can't have left a store of food and gone.
Reply

MTAFFI
04-30-2008, 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by glo
I don't assume to know what God's plans are for this man.

Do you not think that your suggestion that Allah may not 'wish for this individual to carry out the rest of his life' may be based on your human desire for justice and fairness, rather than on Allah's wishes?
I believe that Allah's(swt) wish for this man is according to what is suggested for this sort of crime in any holy book that you may read. It is s-p-e-l-l-e-d out pretty plain and simple, I am sure with a little energy and time that I could provide something from the Torah, Bible and most definitely the Quran that would substantiate this claim. I think it would be better, however, for you to do it, since i am a bit short on time this morning-afternoon :)

Salaam
Reply

aamirsaab
04-30-2008, 05:21 PM
:sl:
Is there a specific punishment for incest in sharia law? I don't myself seem to recall one but then again I don't know that much about sharia law.
Reply

MTAFFI
04-30-2008, 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
Is there a specific punishment for incest in sharia law? I don't myself seem to recall one but then again I don't know that much about sharia law.
I think the punishment for rape would probably be enough in this case, but that is a good question.. I am a bit of a novice still with everything but I will see when I have a bit of time on my hands if I can find something that will answer the question
Reply

chacha_jalebi
04-30-2008, 06:42 PM
^ incest would come into zina innaay, and then the punishment would depend on who did incest and whether it was forced or not

latest on story

B]Josef Fritzl, the Austrian man who is accused of keeping his daughter captive in a cellar for 24 years, refuses to answer further questions, police say. [/B]
They said he had signed a statement admitting imprisoning and raping his daughter and fathering her seven children, but refuses to explain.

The daughter, Elisabeth, has told police she was sexually abused even before being incarcerated.

The case of the 73-year-old Josef Fritzl has drawn world media attention.

Describing the "abominable events" as linked to one individual case, Austria's Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer said he planned to launch an image campaign to restore the country's reputation abroad.

Psychiatric tests

Franz Prucher, head of police in Lower Austria, said police would be investigating whether Mr Fritzl had committed any further crimes.

"We have to bring light to every aspect of the suspect's life. It is our duty to investigate the concurrent circumstances that made it possible that such crime, which shocked all of us deeply, could happen," he told a press conference in Amstetten.

Mr Fritzl faces up to 15 years in prison if he is convicted of raping his daughter, among other offences.


Officials are also considering charges of "murder through failure to act" which carries a longer sentence, in connection with the death of one of the seven children he fathered with Elisabeth.

Mr Fritzl has admitted to disposing of the body of the newborn in an incinerator shortly after the birth.

His lawyer, Rudolf Mayer, has told the BBC his client will undergo a series of psychiatric and psychological tests.

He says the tests will be crucial in determining the extent of Mr Fritzl's guilt and his penalty.

"This case certainly requires a thorough psychiatric and psychological examination. We need to establish if he can be considered responsible for his actions," Mr Mayer told BBC News.

Children playing

Elisabeth and three of the children were held captive in a windowless cellar under the family home.

Mr Fritzl's alleged crimes came to light when Elisabeth's eldest daughter Kerstin, 19, became seriously ill.




She was allowed out of the cellar and admitted to hospital in Amstetten.

Police then issued an appeal to Elisabeth Fritzl to contact them about her daughter, and later picked up Mr Fritzl and Elisabeth near the hospital.

Kerstin remains in a coma, and doctors describe her condition as serious but stable.

The other children who were not confined to the cellar lived an apparently normal life with Mr Fritzl as his "grandchildren" in the upper sections of the same house.

Officials said Elisabeth, now 42, and two of the three children who had lived with her in the cellar - the 18- and five-year-old brothers - had an "astonishing" reunion with her other children on Tuesday.

They are now being cared for in a psychiatric clinic in Amstetten-Mauer. Berthold Kepplinger, the director of the clinic, said their psychological state had stabilised:

"The young people can play, they can run around, they have their personal toys, they have everything that they are used to, and a number of our team are looking after them and are caring for them."



source
Reply

MTAFFI
04-30-2008, 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
He says the tests will be crucial in determining the extent of Mr Fritzl's guilt and his penalty.

"This case certainly requires a thorough psychiatric and psychological examination. We need to establish if he can be considered responsible for his actions," Mr Mayer told BBC News.
yes, lets be humane, yes give the man a psychiatric evaluation so we can say he is too stupid to be imprisoned, yet smart enough to hold 3 people captive for 24 years... yes indeed, this man should live, because bless his poor heart, he simply couldnt control himself +o( +o( +o( +o( +o( :raging: :raging: :raging::skeleton:

(that isnt directed at you either bro)
Reply

chacha_jalebi
04-30-2008, 08:03 PM
yeaah lol and i agree with you mtaffi!!

he hasnt got any medical problems, he knew what he was doing all along, i do hope he gets the death penalty,
Reply

جوري
04-30-2008, 08:20 PM
The punishment for rape in Islam is very harsh.. they had a whole movie about it in Egypt which is a surprise, on the account culture always over dominates religion.

an abortion was granted the woman who got pregnant ergo her rape, citing a verse in suret al-baqara highlighted below..

[Pickthal 2:233] Mothers shall suckle their children for two whole years; (that is) for those who wish to complete the suckling. The duty of feeding and clothing nursing mothers in a seemly manner is upon the father of the child. No-one should be charged beyond his capacity. A mother should not be made to suffer because of her child, nor should he to whom the child is born (be made to suffer) because of his child.
and the rapists got the death sentence, I believe it to have been a true story.. strange how when people implement shari3a, they'd actually feel better... but humans love to bypass God's laws thinking they can do better..
'have we not had enough of the better folks?'

Allah knows best!

:w:
Reply

MTAFFI
04-30-2008, 08:40 PM
UPDATE:

Tenant who lived in incest house for 12 years heard knocking from sex dungeon 'but did nothing'
Last updated at 21:07pm on 30.04.08

A tenant who lived above the cellar where Elisabeth Fritzl was imprisoned by her father for 24 years described today how he heard strange noises in the night - and saw Josef Fritzl ferrying wheelbarrows of food under cover of darkness.

Alfred Dubanovsky, 42, who lived in the building in the Austrian town of Amstetten for 12 years, said Josef Fritzl spent his days in the cellar but banned anyone from going near it.

It never occurred to him anything was unusual about his landlord's behaviour but he now says he will regret doing nothing for the rest of his life.

Mr Dubanovsky said: "I wish to God that I could turn back the clock. The signs were all there but it was impossible for me to recognise them.

"Who would ever believe something so terrible was going on right under my feet? It is a regret I will have to live with for the rest of my life."

Scroll down for more...

Apartment: Alfred Dubanovsky rented rooms on the ground floor of Fritzl's home, above

Mr Dubanovsky, who moved out a year ago and still works at a filling station near the house, spoke out after 200 residents held a rainy candle-lit vigil in support of the family in the town square last night.

"The outside world seems to think Amstetten is a terrible town and that people in the community do not care for one another. We want to show this is not true," said organiser Elisabeth Anderson.

He told The Sun: "Herr Fritzl banned any of the tenants of the eight flats from going anywhere near the cellar or back yard.

"He told us the cellar was protected with a sophisticated electronic alarm, and whoever went there would have their contract cancelled without notice.

Scroll down for more...

Fritzl gets a massage on the beach in Thailand as his daughter and three children remain locked up in his cellar back in Austria

"He used to take food and shopping down there in a wheelbarrow - always at night. At other times I remember I could sometimes hear a knocking from the cellar that I couldn't explain.

"I never in my wildest dreams thought he was behind anything like this. He spent every day in his cellar but I thought his behaviour was pretty normal."

Evil: Josep Fritzl after his arrest
He added: "He would fly into a panic at the merest mention of the police or the law. When I moved out there was a dispute over who should pay for repairs to a door.

"I threatened to sue. He went pale and caved in immediately."

It also emerged today that Fritzl, 73, first applied for planning permission for a cellar in 1978, saying it was to protect his family in case of nuclear attack.

"Elisabeth would have been 12 at the time - making it about a year after she says her father started abusing her.

In 1983 he was allowed to extend it to proper living quarters with rooms and running water. It was a year later that Elisabeth - now 42 - says her father lured her into the cellar, drugged and handcuffed her before imprisoning her.

An investigator told The Sun: "Not only did Fritzl build a torture den to rape and assault his daughter - he went through official channels to do it.

"What kind of man follows council building laws to the letter only then to commit such a horrific crime? It shows how methodical and detached he is.

Scroll down for more...

National shame: Villagers in Amstetten take part in candle-light village last night

"The picture we are getting is that Fritzl planned his entrapment for years, maybe as soon as he started raping his daughter.

"We understand that Elisabeth was his favourite child because she was so pretty. He didn't want to lose her when she turned 18 so he spent six years building the dungeon to keep her for himself forever.

"It wasn't just a sudden idea to throw his daughter in the cellar - it was plotted for years."

Details also emerged about the condition of the three children held in the cellar with their mother.

Berthold Kepplinger, head of the clinic where they are being treated, said they could read and write, although not very well.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...39;/article.do

there is a picture of the sick pig on the site, probably the clearest I have seen, he even looks evil
Reply

glo
04-30-2008, 08:49 PM
^
It's very upsetting to think that people might have had suspicions and did nothing!

If you look back in history, you will find that people easily turn a blind eye to bad things happening in their neighbourhoods or even next door - just because they don't want to offend anybody, or embarrass themselves if they are wrong, or be seen as trouble-makers ... :(

I am certainly taking a long, hard look at myself, and asking what would I have done?
Reply

barney
04-30-2008, 10:14 PM
Cripes! They heard knocking and did nothing?
Sweet Pitiful Mercy.
Reply

truemuslim
04-30-2008, 10:49 PM
WoW...now i am serious


peoples minds are too twisted! What the hell is wrong wit dem people now!
Reply

barney
04-30-2008, 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by truemuslim
WoW...now i am serious


peoples minds are too twisted! What the hell is wrong wit dem people now!
Breakdown of society, where neighbours dont care enough about each other.
Meh.
Reply

truemuslim
04-30-2008, 11:00 PM
^ we need u to teach em more bout caring coz it looks like not ONLY tha kids need da lessons! go get em barney... i hate u . u hate me. look at this horrible society, with a great big kill and a gun from me to u. wont u say u killed me too....

sickk world. sick people. sick minds. sick life. BEAUTIFUL ISLAM WHICH FIXES IT ALL....EXCEPT BY DA PEEPS WHO ABUSE IT!
Reply

Ali.
05-01-2008, 05:42 PM
Update 2!

He threatened to gas his daughter and the children if they tried to escape!
Reply

truemuslim
05-01-2008, 05:46 PM

No wonder why they didn't try... :cry:
Reply

Ali.
05-01-2008, 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by truemuslim
No wonder why they didn't try... :cry:
Yep. :(

Also found this;

Progression as the children try to adjust to the real world.
Reply

truemuslim
05-01-2008, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by Ali.

OMG poor kids!! GOd curse that old devil!! :raging:!!!

Thats so sad...:cry:
Reply

glo
05-01-2008, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by truemuslim
Thats so sad...:cry:
Actually, I find it heart-warming to read how these children are exploring the world around them.
After being so restricted, they must find the outside world quite amazing. A bit frightening perhaps, but they will adjust.

Imagine having never seen the moon, or the sun, or clouds, or grass, or cars, or other people, or animals ... and suddenly you find that life is a miracle!
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-01-2008, 09:36 PM
Omg, that's horrible :( InshaAllah they will learn and adjust.
Reply

truemuslim
05-02-2008, 12:03 AM
Originally Posted by glo
Actually, I find it heart-warming to read how these children are exploring the world around them.
After being so restricted, they must find the outside world quite amazing. A bit frightening perhaps, but they will adjust.

Imagine having never seen the moon, or the sun, or clouds, or grass, or cars, or other people, or animals ... and suddenly you find that life is a miracle!

lol see now u make it sound good! LOL
Reply

Souljette
05-02-2008, 09:13 AM
how sickkkkkk and depraved...and only 15 years!!! they must be crazyyy...he needs to die in prison
Reply

Souljette
05-02-2008, 06:33 PM
Ye i wished all that...but islam doesn't allow that..o how merciful Allah (s.w.t) is
Reply

Mukafi7
05-02-2008, 06:33 PM
All I can say is: لا اله الا ألله
Reply

truemuslim
05-02-2008, 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by Souljette
Ye i wished all that...but islam doesn't allow that..o how merciful Allah (s.w.t) is
lol yeh

Originally Posted by Mukafi7
All I can say is: لا اله الا ألله
Yep
La illaha ilallah
Reply

Whatsthepoint
05-03-2008, 07:54 PM
Unimaginable.:enough!:
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-04-2008, 02:59 AM
make him watch final destination 3, then ask him which of those dyin techniques would he like to die in.
lol pfff.

Anyways, Allah will deal with this monster INSHALLAH!!!!!

All I can say is: لا اله الا ألله
Ameen!
Reply

Ali.
05-04-2008, 10:50 AM
More updates.

I will try and keep this as updated as much as I can for anyone who might be interested.

"My father chose me for himself", words of Elisabeth
Josef Fritzl's punishment chambers explored
Reply

Souljette
05-04-2008, 01:55 PM
THis man really needs to die
Reply

Ali.
05-05-2008, 02:36 PM
Update 4

More news on the reunion of mother and children, but Fritzl could NOT be going to jail!
Reply

truemuslim
05-05-2008, 03:27 PM

:eek: ARE U SERIOUS???!!!
WHAT IS UP WIT DIS WORLD???!!!
seriously u sure dat this story aint a joke rite???

omg!

and jazakallah khair for keepin us updated bro!
Reply

Ali.
05-05-2008, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by truemuslim
:eek: ARE U SERIOUS???!!!
WHAT IS UP WIT DIS WORLD???!!!
seriously u sure dat this story aint a joke rite???

omg!

and jazakallah khair for keepin us updated bro!
Yep, I'm serious! Click the link (if you haven't already).

They say he might have had 'mental problems'. Well after what he did I wouldn't be surprised if he is slightly crazy but it looks like he knew what he was doing all along and they've said he seems to have planned it very well from long ago. Allah knows best though.

and jazakallah khair for keepin us updated bro!
No prob'.
Reply

truemuslim
05-05-2008, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by Ali.
Yep, I'm serious! Click the link (if you haven't already).

They say he might have had 'mental problems'. Well after what he did I wouldn't be surprised if he is mental but it looks like he knew what he was doing all along and they've said he seems to have planned it very well from long ago. Allah knows best though.



No prob'.
So what if he had mental problems. if they let him go those "mental problems" they speak of will go and spread ther "mentalness" around the world more than they already were....
Reply

Souljette
05-05-2008, 05:06 PM
They always use that for people...his lawyer told fritzl to act like that so he can get out earlier..this is normal fr every1 dey like this i don't understand this..how stupid can people get? :@
Reply

Ali.
05-08-2008, 02:53 PM
Fritzl confesses to 'out-of-control addiction'
Reply

truemuslim
05-08-2008, 05:04 PM

oh wow
now he's sucking up big time
watch them let him go coz he's white. :rollseyes

And Jazakallah khair brother
WaSalaam
Reply

S1aveofA11ah
05-08-2008, 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by Souljette
THis man really needs to die
Just a point to all Muslims who are angry with this man. I'm sure all sane people are angry with what he done and he should be punished. We are all going to die one day.

However, it would not hurt ANY of the Muslims to make du'a that Allah guides this man. Maybe your duas get answered. Also remember the Hadith of the man who killed 99 (or was it 100? - sorry dont have it to hand now) people and became a believer then repented from his evils.

I think a lot of it comes from the 'everything goes' mentality of society (as if that is a benchmark for a good 'free' society). Yes 'everything goes' but like with freedom of speech it needs RESPONSIBILITY.

I'm not saying that he has an excuse for his evils just that the society today is a catalst for many evils. With everybody too busy indulging in many accepted evils e.g. alcohol, smoking, fornication etc. then its easy for a man to exist like this one did and not be spotted, treated or caught etc.

At the end of the day he did some major wrongs but Islam forgives a person even if he killed billions of people - such is the power and perfection of this religion. Should make us see the importance of not doing wrong and striving to do good deeds. I'll end with this saying I like in today's upside-down world:

Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it and right is right even is you are the only one doing it.
Reply

S1aveofA11ah
05-08-2008, 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by S1aveofA11ah
Just a point to all Muslims who are angry with this man. I'm sure all sane people are angry with what he done and he should be punished. We are all going to die one day.

However, it would not hurt ANY of the Muslims to make du'a that Allah guides this man. Maybe your duas get answered. Also remember the Hadith of the man who killed 99 (or was it 100? - sorry dont have it to hand now) people and became a believer then repented from his evils.

I think a lot of it comes from the 'everything goes' mentality of society (as if that is a benchmark for a good 'free' society). Yes 'everything goes' but like with freedom of speech it needs RESPONSIBILITY.

I'm not saying that he has an excuse for his evils just that the society today is a catalst for many evils. With everybody too busy indulging in many accepted evils e.g. alcohol, smoking, fornication etc. then its easy for a man to exist like this one did and not be spotted, treated or caught etc.

At the end of the day he did some major wrongs but Islam forgives a person even if he killed billions of people - such is the power and perfection of this religion. Should make us see the importance of not doing wrong and striving to do good deeds. I'll end with this saying I like in today's upside-down world:

Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it and right is right even is you are the only one doing it.
Should have typed:

Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it and right is right even if you are are the only one doing it.[/QUOTE]
Reply

Souljette
05-09-2008, 09:41 AM
:sl:
I agree with you on that quote and what you said..but this is too much ..inshallah if he is guided that's fine..but now dere is nothing but hate i feel for this man ..now he'z tryin to show a good side ..i mean ofcourse people know your doing wrong when you are..he just went with it..its disgusting.
Reply

MTAFFI
05-09-2008, 02:12 PM
i can appreciate your compassion for this man, but i think after a point there is a line that must be drawn. After all, it says in the Koran that people like this should be put to death.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-09-2008, 03:19 PM
Who knows maybe the death would be better solution for him, as we know what hapenns with people like him in prisons...
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-09-2008, 03:21 PM
I beseach any mod who see's this thread or this post to close this thread delete it burn it and ..


give this no more attention please...
Reply

truemuslim
05-09-2008, 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
I beseach any mod who see's this thread or this post to close this thread delete it burn it and ..


give this no more attention please...

lol
they should do the same to that man ... close him (torture him) delete him (kill him) and burn him (then he go to hell)

lol of course am juss messin......actually u wont kno if am messin right now er not. :X
anyway
yeh ur right
ina way

Jazakallah khair
WaSalaam
Reply

Ali.
05-09-2008, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
I beseach any mod who see's this thread or this post to close this thread delete it burn it and ..


give this no more attention please...
Why?
Reply

ozdload
05-11-2008, 02:09 AM
Everyone seems to have a bad opinion of this guy BUT in Northern African Communities, as well as some other communities, young girls are being violated and mutilated in the most inhumane manner known to mankind ( and by their own womenfolk) in the name of tribal and religious tradition. In Bradford and other UK cities and towns women are being abused, showered with acid and forbidden to join into normal community life where they are actually living by dominant males in their families.In Scandinavia a young girl was recently killed by her Afghani father. In tribal Pakistan families are ordered or permitted by elders to take revenge on young women from a rival family where family honour has been stained by behavior that would be quite acceptable in the rest of the world. In Saudi a young women was lucky to escape horrible punishment for being seen in public with a male person who was not her senior male relative. In Nigeria a young mother was sentenced to death by stoning by a local court for adultery but forced to live under this horrible threat whilst she was still breast feeding a child. And on and On it goes without a wimper or word of apology or protest against inhumane crimes by any group or spokespeople from the Islamic community. Some one in ISLAM has to stand up and get something moving on these atrocities so that they can be confronted acknowledged and defeated otherwise there can be no joining together of the peoples of the world in peace and harmony
Reply

Fishman
05-11-2008, 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by ozdload
Some one in ISLAM has to stand up and get something moving on these atrocities so that they can be confronted acknowledged and defeated otherwise there can be no joining together of the peoples of the world in peace and harmony
:sl:
I hate it when people keep making the same ignorant 'somebody in the Muslim community needs to do something about it' comments. The people who make them think that Muslims are part of some kind of closely-knit community with well-defined leaders and motivated citizens. Its nothing like that. People speak up against honor killings etc all the time, but they just get ignored. There is too much division and inertia for Muslims as a whole to get anything done. There are different sects who won't listen to specific scholars, there are other agendas such as nationalism and patriotism, and there is also the simple fact that people are just lazy and can't be bothered to do anything that people ask them to do.
:w:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-11-2008, 01:14 PM
Originally Posted by ozdload
Everyone seems to have a bad opinion of this guy BUT in Northern African Communities, as well as some other communities, young girls are being violated and mutilated in the most inhumane manner known to mankind ( and by their own womenfolk) in the name of tribal and religious tradition. In Bradford and other UK cities and towns women are being abused, showered with acid and forbidden to join into normal community life where they are actually living by dominant males in their families.In Scandinavia a young girl was recently killed by her Afghani father. In tribal Pakistan families are ordered or permitted by elders to take revenge on young women from a rival family where family honour has been stained by behavior that would be quite acceptable in the rest of the world. In Saudi a young women was lucky to escape horrible punishment for being seen in public with a male person who was not her senior male relative. In Nigeria a young mother was sentenced to death by stoning by a local court for adultery but forced to live under this horrible threat whilst she was still breast feeding a child. And on and On it goes without a wimper or word of apology or protest against inhumane crimes by any group or spokespeople from the Islamic community. Some one in ISLAM has to stand up and get something moving on these atrocities so that they can be confronted acknowledged and defeated otherwise there can be no joining together of the peoples of the world in peace and harmony

firstly i'd like to thank you for the eye opener and indeed that post was an eye opener.

secondly i'd like to inform you that islaam does not encourage such attrocities as quite easily discernable from the life of our prophet (peace be upon him) but these sick acts are from the sick depraved cultures and traditions of the past. I agree that its inhumane and makes me want to... well do stuff not suitable to mention on a public forum to them.

thirdly.... all these things are underground.. we want to help.. we want to change it but its hard when its underground. We have help networks, we have places for people to go and ask for help and immediate help will be given ! but these people themselves dont seem to make a move.. and i dont know why?
Reply

sevgi
05-11-2008, 03:39 PM
salams guys...its good to be back:)

from what i can gather..the last few posts pose a question on which 'muslims/islamic entity' is to take action against the backward and the igrnorant muslims living within what may very accurately be called our midst.

i believe (in all my humbleness), that the truth of the matter leaves no room for intervention by any Body (with a capital B), let alone just anybody.

i dont think that anyone of us has the power to yield such authority over the 'jahl'. our prophet couldnt do it...how can we?

i do not enjoy likening this situation of our muslim brothers and sisters to the jahalia stage of our prophet (sav)'s era, yet i cant help but form an almost subconscious correlation.

all the below mentioned are the modern day child burying...

who can stand up to that?

only the jahl can stand up to the jahl. if an educated Body (mind the capital) intervenes, they will either be depraved of their public power through unmentionable media slaughter or will be confronted with an attitude innate to the jahl. i'd hate to see the headlines reading 'muslims clash with muslims'..and i'd also hate to read '100 muslim revolutionists killed in radical quarrel'.

i dno wat im sayn..but i think ive made some sort of a point. its validity and/ or futility lies in the eyes of the beholder.

peace.
Reply

Ali.
05-11-2008, 05:11 PM
We're going slightly off-topic, can we keep on-topic please? :)
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-11-2008, 06:11 PM
right

:threadclo
Reply

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