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Silver
04-29-2008, 11:40 AM
:sl:

I was reading an article from 2006 on Al-arabiyya's website (al-arrabiya is a well known arab news channel). Here's the link but it's in arabichttp://http://www.alarabiya.net/arti.../28/26995.html

Well basically it says that the Saudis were planning to ban women from praying near the Kaaba, they will pray elsewhere in the mosque in 2 sections reserved for them.
So women will only be allowed to see the holy Kaaba from a distant section of the mosque while men will still be allowed in to pray in the sahn (main Kaaba area).
The reason for the restriction is that it maintains order and prevents contact between men and women. It also give women more space to pray.

I found an article in english on the same subject:

The Rights of Women in the Grand Mosque
Hatoon Al-Fassi

Last Friday a number of Saudi newspapers carried a report concerning possible new prayer arrangements for women at the Grand Mosque in Makkah. The new arrangements are based on proposals made by a special panel formed according to directives from Makkah Governor Prince Abdul Majeed. The panel was composed of representatives from the Makkah Governorate, the Presidency of the Two Holy Mosques Affairs and the King Fahd Institute for Haj Research. It proposed that the present prayer area for women at the mataf (circumambulation area) be shifted to two other locations on the ground floor on the northern side of the mosque. The panel members said that women would thus get a larger prayer space in the new area compared to the present one at the mataf. They said the new area was away from places of overcrowding, the mass movement of people and the focus of television cameras, thus ensuring the safety and privacy of women and allowing them to see the Holy Kaaba but avoid the disruption of tawaf (circumambulation).

As this proposal was made without considering the views of women, I thought it my duty to express my opinion of it with the hope that the panel’s proposal is rejected. It not only goes against the message of Islam but also wounds the feelings of Muslim women.

The main problem of this proposal is that it denies Muslim women the right to pray at the holiest place on Earth, near the Holy Kaaba, where prayers are answered and where the faithful can achieve better devotion and closeness to God. This is also one of the factors that differentiate prayer at the Grand Mosque from prayer performed in hotels overlooking it. Throughout Islamic history — from the earliest days of Islam — women have never been banned from praying inside the mataf or any other parts of the two holy mosques. There have, however, been many recent restrictions on women praying and this new proposal is simply further evidence of this.

The religion of Islam was revealed for both men and women. Both sexes are equal when it comes to performing their religious duties and in terms of rewards and punishments. The Prophet (peace be upon him) has instructed that women must not be banned from mosques. Despite these facts, we have observed that the general trend at the two holy mosques is to restrict the prayers of women and limit the areas where they can pray — as if they were a nuisance to others and unsuitable for those holy places. Some even think that the presence of women in the mataf will affect smooth television coverage of prayers inside the mosque and it would be better if the women had been confined to their homes.

We have also seen people widely circulating certain Hadiths, whose authenticity is doubtful, that it was better for women to pray at home than in other places as if the status of the two holy mosques is lower than that of a house.

Women, especially those coming from distant lands, face many problems and constraints at the Prophet’s Mosque in Madinah. The revered Rawda Shareef is open to women only a few hours each day while most of the time, it is for men only. Women, unlike men, are not allowed to face the grave of the Prophet and can only pass by the side of it. The same is also true for the graves of the early Caliphs Abu Bakr and Omar; women can only pass by them — not face them.

Whatever the circumstances, no Muslim can seriously entertain the idea that the presence of women in the Haram disturbs worshippers and visitors. We don’t hear the same said about the presence of men. Are the prayers of men somehow better than those of women?

Let us return to the Grand Mosque in Makkah where women are often driven away by officials — both male and female — who tell them to complete their prayers quickly and generally interfere with the women’s prayers and meditations. At present, women are limited to an enclosed area in the mataf from which, if they are sitting, they are not able to see the Kaaba. The area is small, confined and similar to a prison and is often moved depending on seasonal demands and a variety of justifications. Now the proposal is to remove this prayer area from the mataf once and for all.

My contention is that the panel should have made its proposal without denying the rights of women. In Islam, the only instruction regarding the prayers of women is that they should not pray standing in front of men and, in our times, woman pray in the last rows or on the upper floors of mosques.

In order to allow women to pray in the Grand Mosque in the proper manner, let us allocate a special area for them beginning from the Kaaba and ending at masaa (the running area between Safa and Marwa). The width of this area could be determined based on field studies conducted by the Haj Research Institute on the number of women who come to pray at the mosque. If this were done, the equality of sexes promulgated by Islam would be achieved.

It would also protect women from prejudice and ensure that no men prayed behind them. Moreover, women would be able to pray in comfort, sit closer to the Kaaba and achieve maximum devotion and closeness to God.

I request the officials of the presidency to look into this suggestion with open minds and open hearts. I am sure they will not accept the panel’s proposal which violates the spirit and message of Islam that was sent for all of humanity without any discrimination.

— Hatoon Al-Fassi is a Saudi writer and historian based in Riyadh. She can be reached at: Hatoon-alfassi@columnist.com

What's ur opinion? Do u know if this restriction was ever applied? Well, if it was...that would break my heart. My dream is to go to Mekka and praying near the Kaaba and not being able to do that would break my heart.:cry: If u have any information on the subject plz share them.

:w:
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04-29-2008, 11:42 AM
:salamext:

This is just silly. They can't deny women praying near the kaaba. What the...
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Silver
04-29-2008, 11:45 AM
I know, but some women have been complaining about this. They are often asked to finish their prayers quickly and are sent to the back. I know this because it happened to someone i know.
But i don't know if this is due to the restriction...i need to find out. :(
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☆•♥°ąყ℮Տիმ°♥•☆
04-29-2008, 11:46 AM
:sl:
Surely if this was to go ahead they should reserve a section near the Kaaba for women only... putting a women only section from a distance just isnt justified.
:w:
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04-29-2008, 11:47 AM
:salamext:

They won't get away with this. People WILL protest, and I'll be there when they do. :-\
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Silver
04-29-2008, 11:51 AM
Originally Posted by - Brok3n -
:salamext:

They won't get away with this. People WILL protest, and I'll be there when they do. :-\
Well, basically it is the Saudi muslim scholars who get to decide regarding these issues and i don't think it is fair because even if the Kaaba was in Saudi Arabia, it is to all muslims not just Saudis...so i think muslims from other countries should have their say. Again, I don't know if the decision of this restriction was ever applied. If anyone knows plz share the information. Thx.
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S_87
04-29-2008, 12:34 PM
:sl:

thats old news they dropped their plans and there is still an area reserved in the mataaf area for women.
however women shouldnt and rightly so pray near the kabah. I saw myself the imam was leading with women infront of him and in the mens section women wanting to pray right infront of the kabah. so they pray next to the men. this is not allowed.

this article was with regards to prayer in congregation and whoevers against this tell me, in your masjids do the women pray infront of the men and why not? :)
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Silver
04-29-2008, 12:50 PM
Originally Posted by amani
:sl:
this article was with regards to prayer in congregation and whoevers against this tell me, in your masjids do the women pray infront of the men and why not? :)
No, women don't pray in front of men. They either pray behind the men or they have different sections reserved for them and i do think it is for the best cos a woman will be less distracted if a man was in front of her than a man would be if a woman was in front of him. It's not an equality thing...but with the Kaaba it's different. It's not fair for women not being able to see the Kaaba up close, and in the prophet's (PBUH) time women were allowed to pray near the Kaaba. If i'm praying in a section where i can't see the Kaaba, then to me it would be like praying in the local mosque.

Anw, i know that this is old news from 2006, i just didn't see it until now :-[ After a long search on google and some muslim sites i did find out that this plan was dropped. That's a relief.
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04-29-2008, 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

thats old news they dropped their plans and there is still an area reserved in the mataaf area for women.
however women shouldnt and rightly so pray near the kabah. I saw myself the imam was leading with women infront of him and in the mens section women wanting to pray right infront of the kabah. so they pray next to the men. this is not allowed.

this article was with regards to prayer in congregation and whoevers against this tell me, in your masjids do the women pray infront of the men and why not? :)
:salamext:

THE HEK.........have u seen so many women and men praying together when its prayer time in tawaf? Its not allowed...the hek it isnt
Reply

S_87
04-29-2008, 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by Lara
No, women don't pray in front of men. They either pray behind the men or they have different sections reserved for them and i do think it is for the best cos a woman will be less distracted if a man was in front of her than a man would be if a woman was in front of him. It's not an equality thing...but with the Kaaba it's different. It's not fair for women not being able to see the Kaaba up close, and in the prophet's (PBUH) time women were allowed to pray near the Kaaba. If i'm praying in a section where i can't see the Kaaba, then to me it would be like praying in the local mosque.

Anw, i know that this is old news from 2006, i just didn't see it until now :-[ After a long search on google and some muslim sites i did find out that this plan was dropped. That's a relief.
:sl:

oh sister that news was just for the congregation not for like when youre praying alone, though even then a person praying right infront of the kabah or close is probably going to be crushed-plus they inconvenience others doing tawaaf. i think everyone would want to be infront of the kabah when praying :D

THE HEK.........have u seen so many women and men praying together when its prayer time in tawaf? Its not allowed...the hek it isnt
yeh i never got close to the kabah when i last went but my dad did and he said women were praying in the first couple of saffs and men would tell them to go but they just pretended to ignore them like they couldnt hear. and when i was watching saudi for this years hajj the imam wasnt praying right infront of the kabah but behind and directly infront of him were rows of women
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04-29-2008, 01:10 PM
:salamext:

Every man and woman is equal there, you can pray where u want inside the tawaf area. :-\
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S_87
04-29-2008, 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by - Brok3n -
:salamext:

Every man and woman is equal there, you can pray where u want inside the tawaf area. :-\
not if its inconveniencing those doing tawaaf and they are jumping over you and almost trampling you. and generally speaking do you pray with women standing next to you in prayer? and where is the ruling that changes and allows this?
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islamirama
04-29-2008, 02:05 PM
..................

I know, but sometimes it can't be helped. You are doing tawaf and the adhan is called and everyone stops and starts making line where they stand. You have women and men side by side and front and back. ..
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04-29-2008, 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by amani
not if its inconveniencing those doing tawaaf and they are jumping over you and almost trampling you. and generally speaking do you pray with women standing next to you in prayer? and where is the ruling that changes and allows this?
:salamext:

Yeh I do stand next to women...seeing as I am a sister... :skeleton:
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S_87
04-29-2008, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by - Brok3n -
:salamext:

Yeh I do stand next to women...seeing as I am a sister... :skeleton:
looooooooool i didnt realise. :-[ sorry! ok would you and do you stand next to men?
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04-29-2008, 02:16 PM
:salamext:

No, I don't. But lets say ur making tawaf and the azaan sounds and ur near the Kabah, and u don't have time to get out. You would pray there, no? :?
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S_87
04-29-2008, 02:52 PM
:sl:

i think at non peak times they clear the women out before hand anyway but at peak times its uncontrollable and upto the individual.
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snakelegs
04-29-2008, 06:14 PM
i thought during hajj was the one time women and men could mix - like women don't have to cover during hajj.
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islamirama
04-29-2008, 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
i thought during hajj was the one time women and men could mix - like women don't have to cover during hajj.
It's a holy season and they are at Allah's house. Wouldn't it make sense to abide more by His commands when you're His guest? Women have to cover regardless of the occasion. There is mixing but not free mixing (in a socializing, vain, pointless way). This is like mixing in the market but different at the same time. You are not checking each other out, everyone is focused on repenting for their own sins and asking forgiveness and busy in worshiping. Even though they are together in one place, does not mean they interact with each other.
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snakelegs
04-29-2008, 08:45 PM
i didn't mean mixing that way - i just meant that they are not segregated - i know it's not a party!
i must be mixed up (again) - i thought women didn't have to cover during hajj.
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جوري
04-29-2008, 08:54 PM
You are not mixed up.. women can't wear niqaab during hajj..
and Allah knows best

:w:
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snakelegs
04-29-2008, 08:59 PM
ah, thanks purest! :statisfie
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جوري
04-29-2008, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
ah, thanks purest! :statisfie
My pleasure snakey...:D

peace...
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S_87
04-29-2008, 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
i thought during hajj was the one time women and men could mix - like women don't have to cover during hajj.
during the actualy hajj days the pilgrims wont be in the masjid except from eid days onwards to do some rituals (which happens after the slaughtering ritual-which then allows men to wear normal clothes and women to wear the niqab.)
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islamirama
04-30-2008, 01:54 AM
Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
You are not mixed up.. women can't wear niqaab during hajj..
and Allah knows best

:w:
No niqaab that is by itself (extra cloth), but they can make one of the hijab/khimar they have on....
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truemuslim
04-30-2008, 02:28 AM
WHat the hell?????
yo ppl where da saudis goin to???
cough i fink i kno where...*wink wink*


Women are gonna be able to pray near the kaaba, juss coz some stupid people feel like the gonna be like the u.s and make up useless and random laws doesnt mean we gotta let em ruin our faith...if we get arested er somthing then--never mind i doubt it...

these ppl are like so stupid they cant stop women from praying near the kaaba just coz they feel like not lettin em...stupid ppl these days...

*nods head*

WaSalaam

:D
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S_87
04-30-2008, 12:20 PM
^ you do know that doesnt make much sense dont you
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Abdul Fattah
04-30-2008, 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by (¯¨›Åÿê§h勨¯)
:sl:
Surely if this was to go ahead they should reserve a section near the Kaaba for women only... putting a women only section from a distance just isnt justified.
:w:
That would give problems for tawaaf
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islamirama
04-30-2008, 01:48 PM
There is no such plan so i think it's useless to go on with this thread....
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04-30-2008, 01:50 PM
:salamext:

:threadclo
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