Allow converts to leave Islam when marriage ends

[syilla]

:salamext:

What will you say? :blind:

PEOPLE who become Muslims through marriage should be allowed to renounce Islam if the marriage ends.

In the case of one parent embracing Islam, the religion of the child who is a minor must be decided by both parents or remain status quo until the child reaches the age of 18.

Datuk Seri Ong Ka Ting (BN-Kulai) said the last three years witnessed an unprecedented number of religious matters involving constitutional rights of non-Muslims.

Living in majority muslim country...but still don't know what is islam really all about... :enough!:

source

[glo]

^ How can you become a Muslim 'through marriage'?

[syilla]

^ How can you become a Muslim 'through marriage'?

Actually in Malaysia you can't.

[Malaikah]

Do they mean ppl converting just so they can marry a Muslim? :uuh:

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[Umar001]

Is their shahada like:

Ashhadu An Laa Ilaha Ill Allah wa Ashhadu Anna Muhammadur Rasulullah Wa Ashhadu Hadha Nisaa'a Zawji

hehe

[جوري]

Islam is a commitment and an allegiance, just like marriage is a commitment and an allegiance.. some folks think both are to be entered into lightly...and there is nothing anyone can do about it.. It is unfortunate but mostly for them...

:w:

[YusufNoor]

What will you say?


Quote:
PEOPLE who become Muslims through marriage should be allowed to renounce Islam if the marriage ends.

In the case of one parent embracing Islam, the religion of the child who is a minor must be decided by both parents or remain status quo until the child reaches the age of 18.

Datuk Seri Ong Ka Ting (BN-Kulai) said the last three years witnessed an unprecedented number of religious matters involving constitutional rights of non-Muslims.

Living in majority Muslim country...but still don't know what is Islam really all about...

:sl:

What will i say????

how about if i change the 1st sentence to read:

PEOPLE who become Muslims through marriage should not be allowed to become Muslims at all!

the VERY FIRST PILLAR OF ISLAM is that you must believe EVERYTHING Islamic, Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala and ALL of His Messengers & Prophets , Salla Allahu alayhe Wa Salaam, and His revealed Books & Qiyama, etc!

the very act of later stating you never believed IN ANY ONE of the tenants or 5 Pillars means you were NEVER a Muslim in the 1st Place!

i have to agree with Mufti Ismail Menk who says that Marriage to non-Muslims is Haraam. NOT because the ACTUAL marriage is haraam, but because the premarital relationship with the non-believer is haraam. i mean you CAN'T have a boyfriend or a girlfriend, BUT SOMEHOW someone thinks you can IF they AREN'T Muslim???:?

May Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala protect us all!

:w:

[------]

:salamext:

PEOPLE who become Muslims through marriage should be allowed to renounce Islam if the marriage ends.

Why? Are u on something?!

[glo]

:salamext:



Why? Are u on something?!

This is not syilla's personal opinion.

It is a quote from Datuk Seri Ong Ka Ting, the President of the Malaysian Chinese Association (MCA):

Datuk Seri Ong Ka Ting threw off the shackles today
and trampled on all the sensitive topics that he and the MCA have studiously
avoided over the years. If this is the approach that MCA politicians will
take from now on, they could end up stealing the thunder from the Opposition
and also put them on the path of confrontation with Umno and the powerful
religious authorities.

Delivering the motion of thanks on the royal address, the MCA president said
that non-Muslims should not be subjected to any form of syariah laws. Also
non-Muslims who convert to Islam after marriage should be allowed to
renounce the religion after the marriage has ended.

Source: http://groups.google.com/group/soc.c...d5d3c?lnk=raot

[Umar001]

i have to agree with Mufti Ismail Menk who says that Marriage to non-Muslims is Haraam. NOT because the ACTUAL marriage is haraam, but because the premarital relationship with the non-believer is haraam. i mean you CAN'T have a boyfriend or a girlfriend, BUT SOMEHOW someone thinks you can IF they AREN'T Muslim???:?

Am confused, are you saying Marriage to non Muslims is haram, because of a premarital reletinship with the non believer is haram?

Those are two different things? 1, Marriage 2 Reletionship outside marriage.

[YusufNoor]

Am confused, are you saying Marriage to non Muslims is haram, because of a premarital reletinship with the non believer is haram?

Those are two different things? 1, Marriage 2 Reletionship outside marriage.

we're talking:

Those are two different things? 1, Marriage 2 Relationship BEFORE marriage.

:sl:

actually, i'm paraphrasing Mufti Ismail Menk, who does indeed say that!

i can't remember if it was a khutbah, or during a nikkah or one of his Taraweeh lectures, but if i remember and it's online i'll send you the link.

:w:

[Mukafi7]

Sister Syilla

This is not intended to be an attack on you, but you have to realize individuals who convert to Islam should do so without compulsion. Reading your posting tells me that you have done because you believe you had to and more impotantly it sounds like you have not embraced Islam as your faith. Please keep in mind, I am not judging you, but I am telling you what I read. Anyway, when you convert to Islam, it should be upon your own conviction. Therefore, if the marriage ends, religious or faith should not be an issue. It may be helpful for you to look at it as a comitment you made to God not to the person you married. I hope this helps.

[Al-Zaara]

Sister Syilla

This is not intended to be an attack on you, but you have to realize individuals who convert to Islam should do so without compulsion. Reading your posting tells me that you have done because you believe you had to and more impotantly it sounds like you have not embraced Islam as your faith. Please keep in mind, I am not judging you, but I am telling you what I read. Anyway, when you convert to Islam, it should be upon your own conviction. Therefore, if the marriage ends, religious or faith should not be an issue. It may be helpful for you to look at it as a comitment you made to God not to the person you married. I hope this helps.

Oh, you have misunderstood the first post!

She was just expressing her anger of what she just had read, she linked to the source.

It wasn't about her or her own thoughts, she was just quoting the source.

[Mukafi7]

Sorry, my bad!

[north_malaysian]

^ How can you become a Muslim 'through marriage'?

The Malays are ok with inter-racial marriages but never to inter-religious marriages... Non Muslims must convert to Islam before marrying Muslims as it's hard for Muslims to leave islam.

The problems is that many non-Muslims who married Muslims still continue with their non-Islamic lifestyles and never practice Islam. They converted to Islam for the sake of love. and of course their Muslim partners are usually non-practicing Muslims too and never guide their convert partners to practice Islam correctly.

That's why many converts decided to revert back to their original beliefs and no longer being Muslims when they're divorced from the Muslim partners.

[Muslim Knight]

Found a good written piece in www.malaysia-today.net by one Abdul Rahman Talib Celcom on the apostasy issue in Malaysia and Ong Ka Ting's statement. I am posting excerpt of it here. His recommendations near the end of the article may even well be implemented in any Muslim-majority nation with non-Muslim minorities.

APOSTASY IN ISLAM

The rules and regulations on apostasy in Islam is based on Al Quran, Al Hadeeth, AL Qiyas and Al Ijma (consensus of scholars).

Those who argue that apostasy is not illegal in Islam says that punishment for apostasy is not mentioned in the Quran. The QM/AH or Quran-Only sect goes a step further by misquoting and misinterpreting the Quran to support their argument.

For instance, in an article written by Farouk Peru, found at http://peru.name/?p=51 , quotes, among others, the verse 10:100 from the Quran as the basis for allowing apostasy. In truth, the verse 10:100 has got nothing to do with apostasy as shown below:

010.100
YUSUFALI: No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand.

Anyone reading the verse can tell that the verse has nothing to do with allowing or disallowing apostasy.

Furthermore, if it is true that the Quran allows apostasy, why then does the Quran quotes the story of Jews being executed because of committing apostasy in 02:54?

002.054
YUSUFALI: And remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf: So turn (in repentance) to your Maker, and slay yourselves (the wrong-doers); that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned towards you (in forgiveness): For He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

It’s weird for the Quran to allow apostasy, yet quotes incidences of execution for those whom had committed apostasy. But, somehow and someway the Anti Hadeeth managed to do it. Maybe they are a bunch of magicians.

For further explanation on the laws of apostasy in Islam, feel free to refer to, among others, www.zaharudin.net , where explanation on the ruling is clear. He also addresses all the current understanding of the “nas” and what’s the best understanding for it. In short, when we refer to explanations from qualified people in Islam, we are not subjected to inconsistencies, confusions and contradictions. We save ourselves from being a (oxy)moron.

ONG KA TING STATEMENT

I do believe that Ong Ka Ting was justified in making the suggestion (http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/82201). It is a weakness on the Muslim part not to be able to guide new Muslims who converted to Islam via marriage. They simply made their spouse convert to Islam just for sake of marriage and then do not provide them with proper guidance and education on Islam.

However, I think compromising the laws itself is not the solution. There are numerous other steps that can be considered. Such as:

a. Religious authorities will have to ensure that all of the converts are aware of the apostasy laws. This is to ensure no one converting into Islam for the sake of marriage per say
b. Those intending to convert will have to be determined of their true intention of converting and not just for the sake of marriage alone
c. New converts will be tested and made to sign a declaration stating that they are fully aware of the apostasy laws in Islam
d. Families of the converts must be opened enough to accept their family member’s faith. They should not discriminate them just because they changed their religion.

There are other steps that we can think off. The above are just my suggestion. However, to flout with an existing system which is beyond doubt is not a solution and will result in more problems in the future.

SOURCE

[Tania]

They converted to Islam for the sake of love. ...That's why many converts decided to revert back to their original beliefs and no longer being Muslims when they're divorced from the Muslim partners.

The builder's sister married with a muslim man and she converted to islam after marriage. But she still eat pork ( to hide from husband she change the pack of the meat ). I think your observation its correct.

[snakelegs]

Found a good written piece in www.malaysia-today.net by one Abdul Rahman Talib Celcom on the apostasy issue in Malaysia and Ong Ka Ting's statement. I am posting excerpt of it here. His recommendations near the end of the article may even well be implemented in any Muslim-majority nation with non-Muslim minorities.




SOURCE

yes - i think his recommendations are very good and should be implemented.

[syilla]

yes - i think his recommendations are very good and should be implemented.

Actually all of that is already been implemented...but as usual ppl took lightly when comes doing their job.

[syilla]

:salamext:

IMHO, the reason why people took conversion so lightly because there is no punishment for those Apostasy and of course what i'm saying is...referring to Malaysia shariah law.

[north_malaysian]

there is no such thing as "death punishment" in Malaysian Shariah Laws...

[syilla]

there is no such thing as "death punishment" in Malaysian Shariah Laws...

i don't mean 'death punishment' but 'other' kind of punishment.

[north_malaysian]

i don't mean 'death punishment' but 'other' kind of punishment.

I think the maximum punishments are like 3 years imprisonment and RM5k fine.

[syilla]

I think the maximum punishments are like 3 years imprisonment and RM5k fine.

is this for apostasy? my shariah ustadz says none in our law.

[Muezzin]

Er... to begin with, people shouldn't be converting to Islam solely because they're marrying a Muslim. If they do, they're doing it to please their spouse, not satisfy their own sprituality. That's completely the wrong attitude and will obviously lead to renunciations if the marriages go pear shaped. The only love people should be seeking when converting to Islam is Allah's.

[Abdul Fattah]

Simple answer: people shouldn't become Muslim for the sake of marriage in the first place. If they did, one could argue that they were never real Muslims in the first place and thus can't apostate.

[north_malaysian]

is this for apostasy? my shariah ustadz says none in our law.

for all offences... for apostasy, usually they're sent to Pusat Pemulihan Akidah... (Faith Rehab Centre)

[Tania]

for all offences... for apostasy, usually they're sent to Pusat Pemulihan Akidah... (Faith Rehab Centre)

Its a jail :?

[north_malaysian]

Its a jail :?

I have no idea... but when a Messianic (or Mahdic?) Muslim cult called Al Arqam were banned in the 90s, all 7,000 members were put in this centre. And months later...the leaders and members of the cult repented... and claiming that their cult as unIslamic and declared that they would follow Sunni Islam.

[YusufNoor]

Originally Posted by Al Habeshi View Post
Am confused, are you saying Marriage to non Muslims is haram, because of a premarital reletinship with the non believer is haram?

Those are two different things? 1, Marriage 2 Reletionship outside marriage.

we're talking:

Those are two different things? 1, Marriage 2 Relationship BEFORE marriage.

:sl:

actually, i'm paraphrasing Mufti Ismail Menk, who does indeed say that!

i can't remember if it was a khutbah, or during a nikkah or one of his Taraweeh lectures, but if i remember and it's online i'll send you the link.

:w:

:sl:

it took me a while Akhi, but i found it. it is a Taraweeh lecture regarding Surah #5, Al-Maeda. Whilst discussing whether or not we can eat the food of the "people of the Book", the Mufti carries it forward but discussing whether or not Muslim men can marry"women of the book":

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/Tafseer2006.html
go down to 6 Ramadaan 1427 [although, i'm sure it was the 5th]; anyway it you click listen you'll get a quicktime player. slide the "knob" 55% of the way over. right around there, he begins the Tafseer on Al-Maeda. after discussing Halal vrs Haram and then the food of the people "of the book", he talks about the marriage issue.

sorry it took me so long to find it...

:w:

[Malaikah]

Simple answer: people shouldn't become Muslim for the sake of marriage in the first place. If they did, one could argue that they were never real Muslims in the first place and thus can't apostate.

I don't think so... weren't the law of apostacy revealed because of people fake converting in the first place?