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Faraola
05-05-2008, 07:55 AM
:omg:I just want to ask you brothers and sisters if you are suppose to marry your own cousin (FIRST COUSIN) how and what do you feel about it?
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Selising
05-05-2008, 08:26 AM
As I know, cousin is halal in Islam. You can marry your own cousin, why not? But some says it is not good to marry a cousin whereby both side's father are brothers.

But in some cases a cousin can become a wali. A cousin from mother's side (if I'm not mistaken) can become a wali.

What will I feel? The relatioship between girls and boys has been watched closely by our parents. We were not supposed to mix freely. So, if there is a marriage been arranged, the feeling towards the cousin is just like other guy. I don't think any of us will feel guilty or feel like marrying your own brother

If you mix freely with your own cousin, like eat together, play together, kids quarrel.... you will feel as if he is your own brother and not suppose to marry him. but if the relationship is under control, you can see halal is halal and haram is haram. Your cousin is halal for you but your own siblings are haram for you to marry
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m102313
05-05-2008, 09:04 AM
I don't get the reason behind posting that picture.
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------
05-05-2008, 11:37 AM
:salamext:

As long as the other gender is not your mahram, you are allowed to marry them.

And I wouldn't mind.
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S_87
05-05-2008, 12:06 PM
do you mean if your family are expecting you to marry a certain person?
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Silver
05-05-2008, 05:37 PM
It happens a lot in arabic countries...here in Lebanon, it was common in the old days for related people to get married.
My grandparents are related but they are not 1st cousins. It still exists but it is not common and it happens mostly in villages.
In Lebanon, cousins are very very close, as close as brothers and sisters so no, I would never get married to a cousin, it'll be like marrying my own brother so NO WAY!!!!! But it is allowed of course.
I am also against it for health reasons...because they are members of the same family, cousins have a higher chance (1/8 i think) of carrying the same recessive variant gene, if the child inherits both of the recessive variant genes he will be ill.
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Güven
05-05-2008, 05:44 PM
My parents are cousins and NO problems here Iam even healthier than other people Alhamdullah :statisfie
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Silver
05-05-2008, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Güven
My parents are cousins and NO problems here Iam even healthier than other people Alhamdullah :statisfie
Al7amdulillah...I'm not saying that all children whose parents are cousins will be ill, no...but if the recessive gene of a certain disease is carried by one of the cousins chances are higher for the 2nd cousin to have that gene because they come from the same family so they have more genes in common, there is a higher risk of having a child who is ill. It's all a matter of probability and if the parents are cousins the probability is higher.
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Güven
05-05-2008, 05:53 PM
Yes I know what you mean, I'ts better not to take that risk.
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truemuslim
05-05-2008, 06:03 PM
Nothing is wrong with it. :)
Wasalaam
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teen-omar
05-05-2008, 06:06 PM
sallam
actually it is stated in one lecture called "Fiqh of Love" by Yaser Birjas that the risks of getting a certain disease is very similar to either getting married to a cousin or somebody else
there is only a small chance of it happening and the difference is very minor
however getting married to a cousin depends all on preferences
the prophet sallahu 3allleihy wassalam got married to his cousin so it's all clear
it's halal as most of the people already posted before, but it's just a preference for everyone
wallahu a3lam
wassalam
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Whatsthepoint
05-05-2008, 06:45 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/4442010.stm
British Pakistanis are 13 times more likely to have children with genetic disorders than the general population - they account for just over 3% of all births but have just under a third of all British children with such illnesses.

Indeed, Birmingham Primary Care Trust estimates that one in ten of all children born to first cousins in the city either dies in infancy or goes on to develop serious disability as a result of a recessive genetic disorder.
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------
05-05-2008, 07:10 PM
:salamext:

For heavens sake. So ur saying that if u love ur first cuzzin, dont get married to them because there is that risk of ur child being born with disease?!

Wot utter nonsense...
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Silver
05-05-2008, 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by - Brok3n -
:salamext:

For heavens sake. So ur saying that if u love ur first cuzzin, dont get married to them because there is that risk of ur child being born with disease?!

Wot utter nonsense...
Few marriages between cousins are the result of love, usually they are arranged marriages or at least that is what i see around me.
If the 2 cousins love eachother, i don't think that the risk will stop them from getting married but if they don't then why take the risk?
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------
05-05-2008, 07:29 PM
:salamext:

^ Why not? Marry within the family - better than getting played around by someone else.
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Silver
05-05-2008, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by - Brok3n -
:salamext:

^ Why not? Marry within the family - better than getting played around by someone else.
Marrying someone who is not from ur family is not getting played around!!!!!
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Cabdullahi
05-05-2008, 07:46 PM
It is better to marry someone within the family,tribe or someon from close family friends because the man or the women are both familiar which means their background history is known,what their personality is like ,are they good muslims? these things are already known which makes it easier and much safer than to go for someone who is a stranger but can put on a great act of being nice and everything and then turn ugly and evil..which is better? i dont know
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جوري
05-05-2008, 08:04 PM
I have to disagree with the above from both a religious and scientific aspect!

:w:
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Al-Zaara
05-05-2008, 08:06 PM
I believe the Islamic view is that marriage between cousins is permissible, but it is preferable to choose a partner from outside one’s family, to form new social ties and bonds. There is an hadith on this, but I couldn't find it, so it would be appreciated if someone found it.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-05-2008, 08:29 PM
:sl:

^^ I agree. If it has been made permissible for us, I don't see the problem. And everything is in the hands of Allah Ta'ala. If He wishes, there won't be problems...so I don't see the point of arguing over it. There are loads of people who don't marry in the family and still have kids with problems, so why the issue? Just because it happens within the family doesn't mean it doesn't happen without it. Duh.

:w:
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arabianprincess
05-06-2008, 02:05 AM
well as my bro/ sis answered .......... its not suppose. .. if u want.. // peace
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MustafaMc
05-06-2008, 03:01 AM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
:sl:

^^ I agree. If it has been made permissible for us, I don't see the problem. And everything is in the hands of Allah Ta'ala. If He wishes, there won't be problems...so I don't see the point of arguing over it. There are loads of people who don't marry in the family and still have kids with problems, so why the issue? Just because it happens within the family doesn't mean it doesn't happen without it. Duh.

:w:
Sister Skye has hinted at the scientific reasons for why marrying cousins is not a good idea. My profession is a cotton breeder and Masha'Allah I am somewhat knowledgeable about Mendelian genetics. I have worked out the probability of a child expressing a genetic defect (mm) carried by only one of their grandparents in heterozygous condition (Mm) while all the other grandparents and parents had the normal compliment (MM).

Generation #1
Grandmother X Grandfather
MM X Mm

Generation #2
50% of children MM
50% of children Mm

50% probability that your mother/father is Mm
50% probability that your aunt/uncle is Mm

Mother X Father
50% Mm X MM

Aunt X Uncle
50% Mm X MM

Generation #3
50% probability of Mm mother X 50% probability of Mm you
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm you

50% probability of Mm aunt X 50% probability of Mm cousin
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm cousin

You X Cousin
25% Mm X 25% Mm

Generation #4
50% of eggs or sperm from Mm are m
50% of eggs or sperm from Mm are M

0.25 X 0.5 = 0.125 or 12.5% m egg or sperm

0.125 X 0.125 = 0.0156 or 1 in 64 chance your child will have the genetic defect mm

Now what if both of the common grandparents each carried only 2 genetic defects? Well, the probability would be 1/64 + 1/64 + 1/64 + 1/64 = 4/64 or 1 in 16. If you had 4 children then the probability that at least one of those would have a genetic defect is 1 in 4.

Are you willing to accept the odds of 25% (yes) and (75%) no that one of your four children has a genetic defect?
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------
05-06-2008, 08:18 AM
:salamext:

^ If you love your cousin, then why not? Yes I am willing to accept the odds.
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truemuslim
05-06-2008, 03:47 PM
^ :)



most of my cousins marry cousins



theyr kids are fine :D
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-06-2008, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Sister Skye has hinted at the scientific reasons for why marrying cousins is not a good idea. My profession is a cotton breeder and Masha'Allah I am somewhat knowledgeable about Mendelian genetics. I have worked out the probability of a child expressing a genetic defect (mm) carried by only one of their grandparents in heterozygous condition (Mm) while all the other grandparents and parents had the normal compliment (MM).

Generation #1
Grandmother X Grandfather
MM X Mm

Generation #2
50% of children MM
50% of children Mm

50% probability that your mother/father is Mm
50% probability that your aunt/uncle is Mm

Mother X Father
50% Mm X MM

Aunt X Uncle
50% Mm X MM

Generation #3
50% probability of Mm mother X 50% probability of Mm you
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm you

50% probability of Mm aunt X 50% probability of Mm cousin
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm cousin

You X Cousin
25% Mm X 25% Mm

Generation #4
50% of eggs or sperm from Mm are m
50% of eggs or sperm from Mm are M

0.25 X 0.5 = 0.125 or 12.5% m egg or sperm

0.125 X 0.125 = 0.0156 or 1 in 64 chance your child will have the genetic defect mm

Now what if both of the common grandparents each carried only 2 genetic defects? Well, the probability would be 1/64 + 1/64 + 1/64 + 1/64 = 4/64 or 1 in 16. If you had 4 children then the probability that at least one of those would have a genetic defect is 1 in 4.

Are you willing to accept the odds of 25% (yes) and (75%) no that one of your four children has a genetic defect?
:sl: Yes I understood her point. Hence why I said, everything is still in Allah Ta'alas hands. IF he wants, there would be no such problem. And there are still people who don't marry in the family, yet they have kids with problems. I have a cousin with down syndrome and his parents are not cousins. I have cousins who have married and Alhamdulillah their children are fine. Both can be healthy and the child will have problems. So basically my point is, it can happen to anyone. Regardless of whether they marry a cousin or not. I still stand by what I said brother. You and sister skye are not wrong, but I know I'm not either. Does it mean we shouldn't marry at all? Cause you can have kids with problems, both ways. Nothing takes place, unless Ta'ala Wills it. Nothing happens without His permission. i know you all know this very well.

:w:
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جوري
05-06-2008, 07:31 PM
Down syndrome isn't familial as much as it is maternal age dependant, also there is Robertsonian translocation (not inherited) there is a hispanic people predilection.. that being said, I am not arguing at all that it is in Allah swt's hands.. what I am arguing however is that 'it is better to marry family' many verses in the Quran speak of us being created in tribes and countries to learn from one another.. I don't think isolationism (not in the political sense) is the way to go.. I think somehow it is actually wrong to not integrate with other Muslims caucasian, yellow, green, red, chinese etc.... this deen isn't a one culture exclusive...

but if the dear sis loves her cousin then leave your worries behind and count on Allah swt..

:w:
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-06-2008, 07:47 PM
:sl:

Sister I never said we shouldn't marry outside our family. If anything I'd rather marry outside my ethnicity....my point was...I don't see why we should be saying that its bad to marry their cousins....it's up to them. Kids will be born healthy or unhealthy, both ways. That's all :) lol. Ok well I'm done here now..

:w:
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جوري
05-06-2008, 08:06 PM
I never disagreed with your point.. I disagreed with 'better to marry in the family' my personal feelings are so long as both parties know what they are getting into, then may Allah swt bless their marriage..

:w:
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teen-omar
05-06-2008, 08:20 PM
sallam
i agree with what sister Skye says
so since that is done, no point in carrying on debating about it, right?
unless of course you lot love to debate then just carry on *silently sneaking away* :p
wassalam
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-06-2008, 08:24 PM
No ones debating....well I wasn't. Just stating my opinion. And that it doesnt necessarily mean you are going to have defected children if you marry your cousin. I already know it can happen, never denied it. But don't think your safe if you dont marry one...itll happen to anyone. Ok its done now lol.

:sl:
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MustafaMc
05-07-2008, 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
I still stand by what I said brother. You and sister skye are not wrong, but I know I'm not either. Does it mean we shouldn't marry at all? Cause you can have kids with problems, both ways. Nothing takes place, unless Ta'ala Wills it. Nothing happens without His permission. i know you all know this very well.
I understand exactly what you are saying. I certainly was not making the case to forbid something that Allah (swt) has not forbidden. I was just stating an example of genetic disorder problems that could arise from first cousins marrying.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-07-2008, 01:05 AM
:sl:

^^ Yes I know :) Forgive me brother if it seemed that way :X InshaAllah.

:w:
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MustafaMc
05-07-2008, 01:10 AM
My dear ukhti, there is nothing to forgive.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-07-2008, 01:31 AM
:sl:
Ok thanks lol.
:w:
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*mu'min*
05-07-2008, 08:21 PM
^ i read somewhere that in very very few instances only does it affect the children if the parents are cousin... also i would like to add intermarrige happened in time of sahaba Fatima r.a. was married to her to her fathers cousin.... :)


Originally Posted by Selising
But in some cases a cousin can become a wali. A cousin from mother's side (if I'm not mistaken) can become a wali.
as far as i am aware any cousin of oppisate gender from maternal and paternal are ghair mahram and canot become wali...
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------
05-09-2008, 07:58 AM
:salamext:

But in some cases a cousin can become a wali. A cousin from mother's side (if I'm not mistaken) can become a wali.
Care to explain How?!
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SouLda_Gal
05-09-2008, 10:52 AM
haha peepz arguin here.... omgg ...
hey nowt wrong wid getin married wid ur kuzanz but iv also heard its beta not 2 koz ov da genetic probs n plus i also heard a hadith which says that its beta off not marryin kuzonz and try to know people from other tribes etc...(cnt find it.. read it from 'sahih bhukari' book so its authentic) but its up2 the person itself whether he/she wants 2 marry kuzan or not.. so easy n simple :)

peace out
peace in looool
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Abdul Fattah
05-09-2008, 11:30 AM
Generation #2
50% of children MM
50% of children Mm

50% probability that your mother/father is Mm
50% probability that your aunt/uncle is Mm

Mother X Father
50% Mm X MM

Aunt X Uncle
50% Mm X MM

Generation #3
50% probability of Mm mother X 50% probability of Mm you
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm you

50% probability of Mm aunt X 50% probability of Mm cousin
0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25% Mm cousin

You X Cousin
25% Mm X 25% Mm
If there's a 25% chance of you having it, and a 25% chance of the cousin having it, than that means there's a 12.5% chance of BOTH having it.
Then the third generation will be:
*Based on 12.5% chance of both you and cousin carrying the defect and a 25% chance of both passing it on to your child 1/4th of 12.5% gives a 3.125% chance of the child having the defect.

However 3.125% chance based on the assumption that one of the grandparents do carry the gene! For all you know, neither of the grandparents carried it. So first you'd have to know the percentage of people carrying the genetic defect in the total population, and then take a 3.125% out of that number! To give a hypothetical example, say that there is a genetic defect that is carried in 10% of the population, then marrying your cousin out of that population gives you a chance of 0.3125% of having that defect! I'd say those are neglectable odds. Perhaps the problem with the pakistani community in England is that there is an abnormally high concentration of a certain genetic defect. If the figures of the article from whatsthepoint are correct that 1/10 people born from a relationship with first cousin is true, then that means the pakistani community carries that genetic defect for 300% of the population! (which is of course absurd and impossible, a population can have no more than 100%). If you're wondering what went wrong here (why you come out on 300%) then the answer is, that you have to repeat the %-calculation based on the gene being in the population for each in-law that comes into the picture. If you do that, you'll see that the problem in pakistan is a problem that won't be avoided by no longer marrying cousins. The whole population has a high percentages so even if they marry a non-cousin of that population the chances of child with genetic defect is still high nonetheless! Anyway, I do acknowledge that when the % in the population of the gene is low, then the chance of having it with your cousin is (slightly and neglectably) higher. However as the parameter gets higher (the percentage of the gene carried in the population) there is a turning point where you'll actually have better odds with your cousin as opposed to the rest of the population!

All that being said, in the end chance calculation is just an indication. In reality the events are not random but causal!
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-09-2008, 11:34 AM
i say its all qadr lol

whoevers halaal to marry then by all means marry.

dont worry to much about genetics, Allah is controlling everything.

and why is the fact that two healthy people can have deformed babies etc overlooked? i know many parents who married strangers yet their kids have autism etc and hearing defficiencies...


so see it this way, whats to happen shall happen. Place your trust in Allah and if a defficiency is found be patient, dont treat it like the worst thing, but be patient through it and pray for a cure !

Assalamu Alaikum
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------
05-09-2008, 11:35 AM
:salamext:

^ That was the closing line of this thread.
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chacha_jalebi
05-09-2008, 01:50 PM
before we go around sayin this is nasty, that is nasty, we should remember RasoolAllah (sal Allah hu aleyhi wasalam) married his 2nd cousin, - Umme Habiba (ra) she was the daughter of Hadhrat Abu Sufyan (Ra) who was related to RasoolAllah (saw) like a 2nd uncle, because they both had samee great grandfather innaaay :D

and its is known to cause problems later on, like if you want to, then marry your cousin, but dont keep gettin married in the family, thats when the reall problems to the kids are caused,

like pakis get their kids married to their cousin, then the kids from that marriage, marry their cousins, and then so on and so on and obviously that will cause problems scientifically!

but you dont have to do it, its completely a choice thin, innaaay,

so :threadclo:p
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