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islamirama
05-10-2008, 07:37 PM
Idaho student says teacher tossed his Mexican flag in trash



A high school student says he may file a lawsuit against a physical education teacher who took a Mexican flag he had brought for Cinco de Mayo and put it in the garbage.
Clint Straatman denies Froylan Camelo's version of events but said he took the flag Monday because "white kids" might have hurt the 16-year-old. He said he put it in a garbage can because he had no place else to keep it.
Camelo said he was changing into gym clothes at Minico High School in Rupert when Straatman told him, "Give me the flag."
"I said, 'What's the problem?'" Camelo, speaking in Spanish, told The Times-News of Twin Falls. "He said, 'The problem is that we are in the United States and not in Mexico.' He grabbed it from me. He threw the flag in the garbage can."
Camelo said that Straatman told him the flag would be returned at the end of the school day, but that Straatman taunted him instead.
"I asked, 'Where is my flag?'" Camelo said. "He said, 'What, the U.S. flag?' I said, 'No, the one for Mexico.' But he wouldn't give it to me."
Camelo said he then took the undamaged flag out of the garbage. He said he's been contacted by the American Civil Liberties Union and is considering a lawsuit against Straatman.
Camelo and others brought Mexican flags to the south-central Idaho school to celebrate Cinco de Mayo, the May 5 recognition of Mexico's victory over the French army on that day in 1862. About a third of the student body is Hispanic.
Straatman denied saying the words Camelo attributed to him, and said the student may have misunderstood him because of his poor English skills. He said he took the flag from Camelo after Camelo had been waving it in the school gym, and denied withholding it later.
"I had to confiscate it so it wouldn't escalate any problems in class," Straatman told The Times-News. "We're worried about that stuff all the time. We always have kids saying stuff to each other, and we have a lot of fights between kids."
Scott Rogers, superintendent of the Minidoka County Joint School District, said an investigation has been started. He said he could not comment specifically about personnel decisions.
"We believe in nondiscriminatory practices and cultural sensitivity," he said. "We train for that and talk about that. If there is a teacher making derogatory comments we don't approve of that. We also don't approve of a student disrupting the classroom."
Rogers said he was at the school early Wednesday and that the school was quiet. He said he noticed a few students wearing clothing in the colors of the Mexican flag — red, white and green — in protest of Monday's incident.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080507/ap_on_re_us/flag_incident_1&printer=1;_ylt=AmME9Mw0VZSYpWWfqiS k05tH2ocA
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MTAFFI
05-13-2008, 03:41 PM
he should have burned it and then called INS on all of his illegal relatives... you want to celebrate cinco de mayo by waiving your flag in a gym with obvious intentions to irritate legitimate citizens in a school that is funded by American tax money, i have no sympathy for any repercussion.
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The_Prince
05-14-2008, 02:52 AM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
he should have burned it and then called INS on all of his illegal relatives... you want to celebrate cinco de mayo by waiving your flag in a gym with obvious intentions to irritate legitimate citizens in a school that is funded by American tax money, i have no sympathy for any repercussion.
where in this article does it say he wanted to irritate the people? and how do you know his relatives are illegal immigrants? you make a false statement at first with no proof, then a bigoted one.

theres no sin in going around waving a flag for a special national occasion, i have seen many do it.
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islamirama
05-14-2008, 11:46 AM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
he should have burned it and then called INS on all of his illegal relatives... you want to celebrate cinco de mayo by waiving your flag in a gym with obvious intentions to irritate legitimate citizens in a school that is funded by American tax money, i have no sympathy for any repercussion.
.

Do i smell arrogant American patriotism here?

here's news for you buddy, the only land the whity had were the 13 original colonies, rest of the land belongs to Mexico and Native Americans (not indians as the slave trader columbus thought after loosing his way here instead to india).

I"m glad the other students wore the mexican flag as protest, they should've carried a supper size one outside the parking lot also!
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Roasted Cashew
05-14-2008, 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
he should have burned it and then called INS on all of his illegal relatives... you want to celebrate cinco de mayo by waiving your flag in a gym with obvious intentions to irritate legitimate citizens in a school that is funded by American tax money, i have no sympathy for any repercussion.
STUPID MINDLESS SO-CALLED PATRIOTISM. This kind of arrogance deserves only one answer; which is **** ***!
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Izyan
05-14-2008, 01:28 PM
I take from all your posts that it would be ok for a Jew to go to SA and walk around with a shirt on with the Cross of David on it right?
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MTAFFI
05-14-2008, 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
where in this article does it say he wanted to irritate the people?
It doesnt, but why was he waving a mexican flag in gym class? In an american school? Do americans go to other countries, say Iran, and wave their flags around on July 4? It is a little inappropriate, particularly considering the state of affairs with his people in the US today.
Originally Posted by The_Prince
and how do you know his relatives are illegal immigrants?
I dont, however, the fact that he is 16 and speaks poor english indicates to me that he probably isnt applying for a citizenship. Also, the location, Idaho, has a high percentage of illegal immigrants. No way to really know for sure though
Originally Posted by The_Prince
you make a false statement at first with no proof, then a bigoted one.
Which statement was bigoted? Because I said to burn his flag so he couldnt retrieve it and cause more problems? Again, what is a student doing with a flag out during a class waiving it and distracting other students? What is the purpose?

I realize I am posing questions to your statements and comments, just so you know I am only responding as such to perhaps help you to understand the reasoning that lead me to my post.
Originally Posted by The_Prince
theres no sin in going around waving a flag for a special national occasion, i have seen many do it.
there certainly is not, but again his was in school in a class, if the holiday was so important to him, why didnt he take the day off school and celebrate with his people
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The_Prince
05-14-2008, 02:28 PM
when i said your bigoted i said it because you called his relatives illegal when you had no proof, and which is most likely false. not because you dont want him waving a mexican flag.

you see that right there contributes to the problems between you guys and mexicans, everyone keeps calling them illegal immigrants when the majority of them are legal hard working people.
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MTAFFI
05-14-2008, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
.

Do i smell arrogant American patriotism here?

here's news for you buddy, the only land the whity had were the 13 original colonies, rest of the land belongs to Mexico and Native Americans (not indians as the slave trader columbus thought after loosing his way here instead to india).

I"m glad the other students wore the mexican flag as protest, they should've carried a supper size one outside the parking lot also!
lol

i wish for one second you could remove that cloud around your head and read your posts from even a half way sensible intelligent perspective... Here is news for you whitey took the land and now it is his and every other legal American citizen. If you wish to argue that a few hundred years ago it was Indian and Mexican land then go for it, it is pointless because they lost it, fair and square, the lines are drawn on the map should you care to look.

If you wish to redraw maps and give them to their original people, then why stop only there at 300 or 400 years, lets just go back to wherever the first land was conquered, right? Heck, lets eradicate the human race and attempt to give it back to the dinosaurs, lets try to drive the continents back together like pangea, how about that, is that in your fantasy world? Your childishness never ceases to amaze me.

They are more than welcome to have a parade or wave their flags in the parking lot, just do it after school hours where others who do not wish to subjected to it can leave if they wish.
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MTAFFI
05-14-2008, 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
when i said your bigoted i said it because you called his relatives illegal when you had no proof, and which is most likely false. not because you dont want him waving a mexican flag.

you see that right there contributes to the problems between you guys and mexicans, everyone keeps calling them illegal immigrants when the majority of them are legal hard working people.
well i apologize for coming off bigoted, as i am not, I just have a real problem with the illegals in my country.

http://www.census.gov/population/soc...point_2006.pdf

The link i posted is a census link, it reflects 2006 when there was 28 million Mexicans in the US. I am not sure if this includes illegals or not, however there is estimated to be 11 - 20 million illegals in this country. At worst, that is at best 1 in 4 are illegal and worst is it less that 1 in 2. These are the people that receive free health care, drive with no vehicular insurance, cost millions in US dollars every year in border security and returning many back to their country, and the on top of that many refuse to pay taxes. I dont care that they wish to come to my country, in fact, I welcome them, but just do it legally, ya know? Apply for a visa, work, pay taxes, apply for citizenship and BAM you are a legal citizen, with rights and privileges and most of all respect. It is simply unfair to everyone else to go about it any differently.

Anyways, with regard to the kid and the flag, if he lives here and came from Mexico and went through the motions to become a citizen, then why celebrate his old countries independence day? I guess it doesnt really matter in the grand scheme of things, but if you lived here and had seen some of the things I have you would probably understand the frustration.
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Amadeus85
05-14-2008, 09:01 PM
When you are in America, wave a american flag.
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Fishman
05-14-2008, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
When you are in America, wave a american flag.
:sl:
When in the land of the free, wave whatever flag you want (except some kind of enemy flag like a swastika or something)...
:w:
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KAding
05-14-2008, 09:33 PM
Why is this even considered news?
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Amadeus85
05-14-2008, 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
When in the land of the free, wave whatever flag you want (except some kind of enemy flag like a swastika or something)...
:w:
He should have right to wave any flag that he wants, but it would be nice if he waved an american flag while living in U.S, especially in a school. :)
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Air Jordan
05-14-2008, 09:46 PM
Hi all. I am new to the forum. This is an interesting collection of people you have here. I do have a question about the font color. It seems to change to red for some posters. I find it hard to believe it was intentional as it seems almost random and appears to have no cogent thought behind it.

The funny thing about Cinco de Mayo is it really wasn't historically some type of rallying day for the indiginous people of Mexico. It commemorates a Mexican victory over the French. One cannot say it benefited the indiginous Mexicans in any fashion to be under the rule of a landed class of Spanish descent as opposed to the French.

Oddly, Cinco de Mayo has now become a day for "immigrant's rights" rallies within the US largely because the "Anglos" have heard of it and it's easy to pronounce. :) The rich Mexicans who actually benefited from the Mexican victory are still in Mexico because they own everything. The failure of the patriarchal serf-like system of land ownership they have in Mexico is the main reason that so many poorly-educated and desperate Mexicans walk across deserts to get here.

This kid who chose to "protest" didn't know what he was protesting about, was ignorant of (or purposely dismissive of) the dominant culture that was providing hsi education. He is lucky somebody didn't "re-educate" him.
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Fishman
05-14-2008, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
He should have right to wave any flag that he wants, but it would be nice if he waved an american flag while living in U.S, especially in a school. :)
:sl:
Yes, but it was a national celebration, so he should have the right to remember his family's identity and culture...

Let's show some flags of obscure central Asian countries!
Mongolia!


Kazakhstan!

:w:
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MaiCarInMtl
05-16-2008, 02:07 PM
People always wave different flags in the city I live in. Everyone is proud of where they come from and the vast majority of people here appreciate our multi-culturalism (but there are always a few party-poopers of course). I really don't see what's wrong with people waving flags as long as they are not symbols of hate.

Now, if he was waving is around in phys. ed., one would make the argument that it wasn't the right time or that he could possibly injure himself or a classmate while running around with the flag. Just take it away from him for the class and give it to him at the end.
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Keltoi
05-16-2008, 09:56 PM
This story is a lot of drama over not much at all, but I tend to agree with MTAFFI on this one. It tends to get annoying when a certain segment of the population holds protest marches because they don't want to be held to the same standards as overseas immigrants while at the same time waving Mexican flags around in an ironic display of national pride.

Also, if you want to argue about who owned the land first, the Mexicans were considered a greater enemy to the Native tribes of the southwest than Americans were. Don't let the "indigenous" act fool you.
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barney
05-16-2008, 10:21 PM
Yeah, I suppose its a bad thing.
A guy waved a mexican flag in the USA it got thrown in the trash.

I really must pop over to Tehran and start flapping my Union Flag about. I'll let you know what happens (if hell has internet access). :)
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islamirama
05-17-2008, 02:49 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Yeah, I suppose its a bad thing.
A guy waved a mexican flag in the USA it got thrown in the trash.

I really must pop over to Tehran and start flapping my Union Flag about. I'll let you know what happens (if hell has internet access). :)
if you're celebrating cinco they mayo, people there and other countries are more open minded then the stupid ethenocentric americans. in case you forgot, white British owned only 13 colonies and the rest belong to mexico and some to native americans. spanish is US's 2nd language even though they may not see it. and lastly, US is the one that boasts about freedom of everything, mixing pot/salad and all that mumbo jumbo. but when those people try celebrate their heritage, you see this bigotry and ethnocentric americanism, so i guess all that "freedom" crap is only on paper or lip service.
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Air Jordan
05-17-2008, 06:06 AM
Originally Posted by islamirama
if you're celebrating cinco they mayo, people there and other countries are more open minded then the stupid ethenocentric americans. in case you forgot, white British owned only 13 colonies and the rest belong to mexico and some to native americans. spanish is US's 2nd language even though they may not see it. and lastly, US is the one that boasts about freedom of everything, mixing pot/salad and all that mumbo jumbo. but when those people try celebrate their heritage, you see this bigotry and ethnocentric americanism, so i guess all that "freedom" crap is only on paper or lip service.
What ethnocentric action was on display here? Does the story even say the ethnicity of the flag absconder?

You are also a bit over the top of the deprivation of freedom angle. It was the spontaneous and unauthorized action of a single physical education coach at a junior high school, not the organized persecution of a group of people. :D He was probably within his authority in taking the flag to avoid disrutpion of his class but he should not have thrown it in the trash. Still, I suspect nobody else will be waving flags in his class. :)

In any event, it hardly rises to the level of "Big Brother"
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barney
05-17-2008, 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
if you're celebrating cinco they mayo, people there and other countries are more open minded then the stupid ethenocentric americans. in case you forgot, white British owned only 13 colonies and the rest belong to mexico and some to native americans. spanish is US's 2nd language even though they may not see it. and lastly, US is the one that boasts about freedom of everything, mixing pot/salad and all that mumbo jumbo. but when those people try celebrate their heritage, you see this bigotry and ethnocentric americanism, so i guess all that "freedom" crap is only on paper or lip service.

Cos a guy threw a flag in the trash and it made the headlines all over teh interwebs proofing taht teh USA R teh wurst PPl evar LOLOLOLOLOLO
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Woodrow
05-17-2008, 01:59 PM
:w:

Just my opinion, but this is a rediculous argument over a very vague issue.

The thead is not worth any of us getting our blood pressure elevated over.

:threadclo:
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