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View Full Version : Over 10,000 killed, 900 students buried as powerful quake hits China



Admin
05-12-2008, 04:13 PM


Rescuers search in the rubble of the collapsed Juyuan middle school in China's Sichuan province after the devastating earthquake on Monday.




Over 8,500 people were killed and nearly 900 students were reported to be buried in one of China's strongest earthquakes in decades that struck the country's southwest Sichuan province on Monday.
Described as a 'disaster' by premier Wen Jiabao, the tremor measuring 7.8 of the Richter scale injured thousands in the mountainous province even as the shock waves rattled Chinese cities and caused casualties in Sichuan, Gansu and Yunnan provinces and Chongqing municipality.
Chinese state media said that 8,500 people had died in Beichuan county in Sichuan province from the massive quake.
It said another 10,000 people were believed hurt in the same county in the devastating tremor.
Nearly 900 students were feared buried after a high school building collapsed in Dujiangyan City, about 100 kms from the earthquakes epicentre of Wenchuan County in Sichuan province, official Xinhua news agency said. It gave no other immediate details.
The quake jolted vast swathe of China sending waves of panic as thousands of people came out of high rise buildings and poured into the streets in cities including Beijing [Images] and Chinas economic hub Shanghai, where China's tallest building Jinamo tower was also evacuated. There were no immediate reports of damages or casualties.
The quake was also felt as far as in Bangkok, capital of Thailand and Hanoi in Vietnam.
Troops were rushed to the affected areas for disaster relief work, while President Hu Jintao ordered 'all out efforts' to help the victims.
China previously reported an earthquake of similar magnitude on July 28, 1976 in Tangshan city near Beijing in which over two lakh people were killed.
External Link: Images from the disaster
"My fellow Chinese, facing such a severe disaster, we need calm, confidence, courage and efficient organisation," Premier Wen Jiabao said as he flew to the disaster-struck area to oversee relief work.
Telecom networks in Chengdu, Chongqing and Zhengzhou cities were paralysed after the quake. In Chengdu, cracks were seen some buildings, Xinhua said
The quake that jolted eastern Beijing measured 3.9 on the Richter scale.
Lisa Wang, an office worker in Oriental Plaza in downtown Beijing, said the whole building was evacuated after the tremor.
Officials said 80 per cent of the buildings toppled in Beichuan Qiang Autonomous County, northwest of the provincial capital of Chengdu, 146 kms from Wenchuan County, the epicentre of the killer quake.
"My colleagues, more than 50 people, rushed downstairs from the sixth floor into the plaza in front of the building. A large number of people, other office workers, were already there and more people poured out," she said.
She said hundreds of people stayed outside for about 15 minutes before returning to their offices. Similar experiences were reported by others, some saying they even felt dizzy.
Before the strong earthquake struck, the Sichuan provincial seismological bureau detected a moderate quake measuring 5.4 on the Richter Scale in Mianzhu city of Deyang, Xihnua said.
Monday's quake was the strongest to hit Sichuan province in more than 30 years. Overall, 44 aftershocks had been reported, the strongest one measuring 5.6, it said.
Chinese Air Force has sent helicopters to assist in relief work in the quake stricken areas, while the State Seismological Bureau is also dispatching a team to gauge the situation.


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Güven
05-12-2008, 04:20 PM
SUBHANALLAH
7.8, Thats High
Reply

Ali.
05-12-2008, 04:26 PM
Terrible. It was said to be felt as far away as Thailand and Vietnam!

Reply

Souljette
05-12-2008, 04:33 PM
Wow
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TrueStranger
05-12-2008, 04:44 PM
Mother nature isn't feeling good these days.

Did anyone see the tornadoes that struck the states
Reply

crayon
05-12-2008, 06:18 PM
This is horrible, those poor people.. :(
Lots of tragedy in South East Asia, lately.
Reply

truemuslim
05-12-2008, 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Mother nature isn't feeling good these days.

Did anyone see the tornadoes that struck the states
OMg yes they everywhere, we getting warnings wher i am! Subhanallah soo much happening! (coughjudgementtimecoughcough)


Originally Posted by Güven
SUBHANALLAH
7.8, Thats High
GOD ur signature got me again! i thought u were smiling!! :omg: lol


@ topic

OMg subhanallah too many killed!! Woow....so sad
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
05-12-2008, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by Güven
SUBHANALLAH
7.8, Thats High
Yes, and it's not even summer yet. The jet stream is on steriods right now ~ but what would anyone expect from the mass pollution that these wars bring? Going "green" means absolutely nothing if only one small part of this world is doing it because the world spins, you know. We're all connected. The tornados? The only thing that separates Iraq's air from America's - is a very small measurement of time. You get what you give. So we're trading air raids for air raids. You only have to check the latitude.

The Ninth Scribe
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Izyan
05-12-2008, 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Yes, and it's not even summer yet. The jet stream is on steriods right now ~ but what would anyone expect from the mass pollution that these wars bring? Going "green" means absolutely nothing if only one small part of this world is doing it because the world spins, you know. We're all connected. The tornados? The only thing that separates Iraq's air from America's - is a very small measurement of time. You get what you give. So we're trading air raids for air raids. You only have to check the latitude.

The Ninth Scribe
So are you trying to say the tornados and earthquakes are Americas fault because of Iraq? I'm not very good at riddles
Reply

Simply_Logical
05-12-2008, 08:37 PM
allahu akbar,
thats crazy!
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truemuslim
05-12-2008, 11:23 PM
Many many tornadoes are here in america, 21 or 22 dead and tons injured, i change the channel on the news and the same talk but about a different location, then china.
Btw 10,000 people died in china...so far... did u guys see how its caved in or watever so no one can get in to help the people that are still alive but buried!
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north_malaysian
05-13-2008, 12:56 AM
Originally Posted by crayon
This is horrible, those poor people.. :(
Lots of tragedy in South East Asia, lately.
China is not in SE Asia...:D

But... yeah...it still lots of tragedies in SE Asia.
Reply

Keltoi
05-13-2008, 04:26 AM
I'm still expecting another gigantic volcanic eruption sometime in the near future. Maybe even Krakatoa big.

Hopefully China will do a better job than Myanmar getting aid to the people who need it.
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Malaikah
05-13-2008, 07:22 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I'm still expecting another gigantic volcanic eruption sometime in the near future. Maybe even Krakatoa big.
God forbid [have you heard about super volcanoes?:skeleton:]

How sad about the school. :(
Reply

crayon
05-13-2008, 07:45 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
China is not in SE Asia...:D

But... yeah...it still lots of tragedies in SE Asia.
True, lol. Lots of tragedy in the far east, then..:statisfie
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
05-13-2008, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by Izyan
So are you trying to say the tornados and earthquakes are Americas fault because of Iraq? I'm not very good at riddles
If you go purely by the scientific standards (atmosphere, emmissions, etc), then "causual" pollution like driving cars and heating your home are main factors. Wars, on the other hand, grossly exceed the "casual" pollution standards, and yes... they wreak havoc on the environment. This information tried to suface during the Gulf War when oil fields were burned, but it was silenced. Not surprizingly, environmental impact teams are not allowed in these war zones (plural). On a purely moral note: We get what we give. Based on the following, I'm not at all surprized by the natural back-lash we're experiencing here... and this action we're experiencing is from the 1980's war. I'm not enjoying it, but Cest La Vie.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/testimony/t...992-09-16.html

http://www.american.edu/ted/ice/kuwait.htm

The Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
05-13-2008, 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by Izyan
By why is it an American exclusive conclusion? Surely America isn't the only country that has gone to war in the last 50 years.
No, it hasn't.... and America is not the only country in the world suffering from the envirnomental effects. But it does profit from the wars by supplying a large portion of the weapons. The problem, as I see it, is that America believes itself to be separate from the rest of the world and doesn't fully understand how much the world is connected. But I expect it will learn this very soon, say within the next decade. If you want to follow this line of study, you only have to watch the volcanic eruption in South America ~ they're tracking the ash cloud as we speak. It covers a great distance now, doesn't it?

The Ninth Scribe
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Izyan
05-13-2008, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
No, it hasn't.... and America is not the only country in the world suffering from the envirnomental effects. But it does profit from the wars by supplying a large portion of the weapons. The problem, as I see it, is that America believes itself to be separate from the rest of the world and doesn't fully understand how much the world is connected. But I expect it will learn this very soon, say within the next decade. If you want to follow this line of study, you only have to watch the volcanic eruption in South America ~ they're tracking the ash cloud as we speak. It covers a great distance now, doesn't it?

The Ninth Scribe
In what way does the US believe that it's not a part of the world? The US gives the most aid worldwide whenever there's a disaster. The US has lowered their CO emissions average lower than most signatories of Kyoto. China is the largest polluters in the world. I think you need to step back and look at things objectively.
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Ninth_Scribe
05-13-2008, 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Izyan
In what way does the US believe that it's not a part of the world? The US gives the most aid worldwide whenever there's a disaster. The US has lowered their CO emissions average lower than most signatories of Kyoto. China is the largest polluters in the world. I think you need to step back and look at things objectively.
But this is my whole point. It doesn't matter if the United States lowers it's CO emissions here - if it's increasing those emissions off the scale elsewhere in the world via the wars it becomes involved in. And this isn't just about America. China is suffering the effects too (notice the title of this thread), as are all the lands on the same latitude. Just my own personal theory here... but I'd stay as far away from the equator as humanly possible at this point in time. I'm guessing that's where most of the action in the next decade will be.

The Ninth Scribe
Reply

Fishman
05-14-2008, 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Yes, and it's not even summer yet. The jet stream is on steriods right now ~ but what would anyone expect from the mass pollution that these wars bring? Going "green" means absolutely nothing if only one small part of this world is doing it because the world spins, you know. We're all connected. The tornados? The only thing that separates Iraq's air from America's - is a very small measurement of time. You get what you give. So we're trading air raids for air raids. You only have to check the latitude.

The Ninth Scribe
:sl:
Since when did pollution cause earthquakes?! :?
:w:
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
05-14-2008, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Since when did pollution cause earthquakes?! :?
:w:
It would take me years to explain that, but the basic principle is this. Certain materials are effected when they expand and contract too radically. For instance, the auto industry had to do away with an engine design... steel block with aluminum heads. Why? Two different types of metal, that expand and contract at different rates when it heats and cools. Now, if you don't have problems with materials when they expand and contract by what is considered to be normal heating and cooling temperatures, that doesn't mean you can just exceed those temps without expecting any problems.

With the earth, there is more than just temperature. There are a host of other elements like magnetism. Disrupting waterways, causing explosions and a whole host of man-made events can obviously cause the earth to react. So, yes... polution, warfare, technology, waste - all these things can cause disruptions - and that includes hurricanes, tornadoes, and even earthquakes. This is why I said earlier... it's not even summer yet.

The Ninth Scribe
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Fishman
05-14-2008, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
It would take me years to explain that, but the basic principle is this. Certain materials are effected when they expand and contract too radically. For instance, the auto industry had to do away with an engine design... steel block with aluminum heads. Why? Two different types of metal, that expand and contract at different rates when it heats and cools. Now, if you don't have problems with materials when they expand and contract by what is considered to be normal heating and cooling temperatures, that doesn't mean you can just exceed those temps without expecting any problems.

With the earth, there is more than just temperature. There are a host of other elements like magnetism. Disrupting waterways, causing explosions and a whole host of man-made events can obviously cause the earth to react. So, yes... polution, warfare, technology, waste - all these things can cause disruptions - and that includes hurricanes, tornadoes, and even earthquakes. This is why I said earlier... it's not even summer yet.

The Ninth Scribe
:sl:
I have no idea what you're on about, aren't earthquakes caused by tectonic activity? Pollution (especially air pollution as in CO2 emissions) has about as much effect on earthquake activity as a rubber duck does on your house's stability.
:w:
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chacha_jalebi
05-14-2008, 10:27 PM
has any country offered aid to china ....
Reply

Air Jordan
05-15-2008, 12:32 AM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
It would take me years to explain that, but the basic principle is this. Certain materials are effected when they expand and contract too radically. For instance, the auto industry had to do away with an engine design... steel block with aluminum heads. Why? Two different types of metal, that expand and contract at different rates when it heats and cools. Now, if you don't have problems with materials when they expand and contract by what is considered to be normal heating and cooling temperatures, that doesn't mean you can just exceed those temps without expecting any problems.

With the earth, there is more than just temperature. There are a host of other elements like magnetism. Disrupting waterways, causing explosions and a whole host of man-made events can obviously cause the earth to react. So, yes... polution, warfare, technology, waste - all these things can cause disruptions - and that includes hurricanes, tornadoes, and even earthquakes. This is why I said earlier... it's not even summer yet.

The Ninth Scribe
Ninth;

Here is the mass of the Earth......5.9742 × 10**24 kilograms. That is really, really big. The Earth is a bit more reslient than you let one. Dozens or hundreds of nuclear weapons were tested, some with yields as large as 100 megatons (5,000 times the size of the Nagasaki bomb), yet there were no showers of earthquakes then. Is the Earth getting weaker in her old age? :)
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snakelegs
05-15-2008, 04:01 AM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
has any country offered aid to china ....
bush promised a lousy $500,000. :-[
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Fishman
05-15-2008, 09:23 AM
Originally Posted by Air Jordan
Ninth;

Here is the mass of the Earth......5.9742 × 10**24 kilograms. That is really, really big. The Earth is a bit more reslient than you let one. Dozens or hundreds of nuclear weapons were tested, some with yields as large as 100 megatons (5,000 times the size of the Nagasaki bomb), yet there were no showers of earthquakes then. Is the Earth getting weaker in her old age? :)
:sl:
Exactly.
http://geology.about.com/cs/eq_hazards/a/aa033102a.htm
:w:
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barney
05-15-2008, 03:31 PM
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_8176214.htm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080513...aquakeaidworld

The West has given several millions, Japan and Tiawan likewise.
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Ninth_Scribe
05-15-2008, 03:37 PM
I've been trying to consider things, in a way you could understand. I couldn't really come up with anything, so I'll try for a tiny scale. You keep your veggies and food in a cooler. What would happen if you increased the temperature, say twenty degrees? Wouldn't the veggies and meat spoil? Meat would grow bacteria (nasty) and veggies would spoil too - and what gas do they emit when they do this? That's just twenty degrees and in a mere speck of the world. To get a really good idea of where this is going on a global scale, you might try accessing the regional mortality rates. These records are kept by most ife insurance companies. The records aren't that interesting until you compare them with their archives from 50 years ago.

I don't know why I bother studying such things. Maybe to reassure myself of what I'm really dealing with? Who knows? But studies have always interested me, whether they're from thousands of years ago or current. To me, it's not work to ask questions and search for the answers. It's more like an Easter Egg hunt.

Sorry about yesterday. I was in a really foul mood and I should stay away from this forum when the moon starts to fill out. Well, that and I thought you were being snide. Ha! Maybe we're all more affected by it than we think, lol.

The Ninth Scribe
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Ninth_Scribe
05-15-2008, 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by Air Jordan
Ninth;

Here is the mass of the Earth......5.9742 × 10**24 kilograms. That is really, really big. The Earth is a bit more reslient than you let one. Dozens or hundreds of nuclear weapons were tested, some with yields as large as 100 megatons (5,000 times the size of the Nagasaki bomb), yet there were no showers of earthquakes then. Is the Earth getting weaker in her old age? :)

Interesting, but there are no cross references... and that's where corporate America and other world powers gain their momentum in these projects of theirs. So the hole in the ozone just happened all by itself? Are you trying to tell me that cars can kill the atmosphere, but the bombs do absolutely nothing? Wow! Now that's what I call a learning curve, lol.

The earth isn't getting weaker... heavens no... on the other hand, it's getting violent.

The Nnth Scribe
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Air Jordan
05-15-2008, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Interesting, but there are no cross references... and that's where corporate America and other world powers gain their momentum in these projects of theirs. So the hole in the ozone just happened all by itself? Are you trying to tell me that cars can kill the atmosphere, but the bombs do absolutely nothing? Wow! Now that's what I call a learning curve, lol.

The earth isn't getting weaker... heavens no... on the other hand, it's getting violent.

The Nnth Scribe
I hate rain on you Gaia parade Ninth, but there really is no "ozone hole" either. There is an area of lower concentration of stratospheric ozone over the poles. As it was impossible to measure the atmospheric ozone concentration until high altitude satellites with the appropriate sensors were available, we don't really know what the historic ozone level was over the poles. We do know that seasonal variations and year to year variations are greater than the alleged fall-off in average concentration over the approximate two decades we have been able to measure. We don't even know if CFC's play any significant role in the real atmosphere. It is theoretically possible. Despite this, it is now illegal for an patient with asthma to use an inhaler that has CFC's :D Next time you see an old man or woman with an oxygen tank, you can be pretty sure the walking superfund site has helped to create the "ozone hole". I usually give them a swift kick in the shins and a good tongue lashing.
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north_malaysian
05-16-2008, 01:10 AM
25 Malaysian Tourists Missing, Families Leaving Chengdu

By Tham Choy Lin

BEIJING, May 14 (Bernama) -- A group of 26 elderly Malaysian tourists has been missing since Monday's devastating earthquake that hit south-western Sichuan province as the death toll rises to nearly 15,000 and thousands reported buried under the rubble of collapsed buildings and landslides.

Several Malaysian families with young children in Chengdu have made plans to go home due to fears of water shortage and repeated aftershocks in the provincial capital.

While the fate of the group is still not known, there have been no reports of Malaysian casualties, said Malaysian Consul-General in Kunming Ayauf Bachi.

The consulate has sought the help of Sichuan local government to trace the Malaysians whose last known stop was in Maoxian, less than 50km from the epicentre of the quake in Wenchuan county.

"The Chinese authorities formed a special team this morning to look for foreign tourists. We are working with them on this," he told Bernama.

He said the consulate was contacted Tuesday evening by Ipoh-based Golden Dragon Tours which had arranged the trip for the group of mostly women, half of whom were elderly.

The Chengdu local agent handling the tour said the agency had alerted tourism and communications authorities in Aba county near Miaoxian after it was unable to contact its tourist guide accompanying the group.

"The last contact we had was around 1.30pm when the tourist guide called to say they were stopping for lunch at the Guibinlou restaurant in Maoxian. After the quake, we called the guide but was unable to get in touch until now," said Zhang Wenxia of Chengdu Overseas Tourist Corporation.

She said the Malaysians with a local driver and tourist guide were travelling in a 39-seat coach from Jiuzhaigou and had stopped in Maoxian for lunch before their next destination, Dujiangyan, which was badly affected by the quake.

Zhang said most of the tourists were elderly people, with one over 90 and several in their seventies or eighties.

Aftershocks were still felt in Chengdu, the provincial capital Wednesday, and many people left their high floor dwellings to sleep in the open or bunk in with friends in apartments closer to the ground.

With the Chengdu Airport reopened on Monday night, large crowds were at the airport to leave the city, according to Malaysians there.

Three Malaysian families would be going home Thursday via Bangkok as there are no direct flights to Malaysia after the Chengdu sector was dropped by Malaysia Airlines (MAS) more than a year ago.

"My wife and three young children are going home tomorrow and two other families will also be departing as a precaution. At work, we have to run out of the building each time there is a tremor," said banker Kenny Lim who is also vice-chairman of the Malaysian Association of Sichuan.

Association chairman David Siow said there were concerns of bottled water shortage because a key supplier was in Dujiangyan, one of the worst-hit by the quake.

"It is turning difficult here, the was another big tremor in the morning. There are cracks on the walls of my condo and I am now sleeping in my second floor office," he said.

Also headed for home are two Malaysians who escaped the calamity in Mianyang. Muhammad Yazli Mohd Rosli and Benjamin Gau who work with the Hrosen Engineering Sdn Bhd in Shah Alam.

They had made a stopover to inspect a project with PetroChina and were in their hotel when the quake struck on Monday afternoon.

"Lucky for us, we were living in a new area where not many buildings collapsed. I was shocked to know Mianyang was so badly hit. Throughout the first night, there were sirens from police cars and ambulances," said Muhammad Yazli, a survey engineer.

In Jiuzhagou on the northern border of Sichuan, Malaysian Yap Sin Fatt, a golf superintendent who is working on a resort project there, had also made plans to fly back to Chengdu on Saturday with a Malaysian couple who had cut short their holiday there.

"We felt an aftershock again just now in the evening. I am in Nanping county of Jiuzhaigou now. We have been outside sleeping in camps and cars for two days," he added.

-- BERNAMA

Source: http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/ne....php?id=333014
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Ninth_Scribe
05-16-2008, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by Air Jordan
I hate rain on you.
Believe me when I say this ~ You could NEVER rain on me! And you're sadly mistaken if you think I actually care what mankind does to itself. I'm only here for one purpose, to state a matter of record, and that's all I'm obligated to do. Once stated, you can tear the words to shreds (no surprize) and continue with your genocide campaigns - none of that is any of my business. I'm not worried about the Earth... it will definately survive mankind.

The real question is... will mankind survive itself?

The Ninth Scribe
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barney
05-16-2008, 06:45 PM
Quick Question.
When Katrina wiped out new orleans, how much aid did the world give the USA? Should a rich country stand on its own in the face of a disaster?

I heard that China had decided to send another 19 helicopters to the area. That sounds great, but they have over 4000 helicopters. Whats up with using all of them?
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Ninth_Scribe
05-16-2008, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Quick Question.
When Katrina wiped out new orleans, how much aid did the world give the USA? Should a rich country stand on its own in the face of a disaster?

I heard that China had decided to send another 19 helicopters to the area. That sounds great, but they have over 4000 helicopters. Whats up with using all of them?
I don't have the answers to any of those questions.

The Ninth Scribe
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Air Jordan
05-16-2008, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Believe me when I say this ~ You could NEVER rain on me! And you're sadly mistaken if you think I actually care what mankind does to itself. I'm only here for one purpose, to state a matter of record, and that's all I'm obligated to do. Once stated, you can tear the words to shreds (no surprize) and continue with your genocide campaigns - none of that is any of my business. I'm not worried about the Earth... it will definately survive mankind.
Are you the internet embodiment of Gaia herself...reaching out to the LI Islamic forum to warn of us of our foolish ways? Let me be the first to welcome you. Can we get you something? A margarita with rock salt perhaps?

A humble request, however. Could you lighten up a bit on the genocidal claims? That is definitely hitting below the Van Allen belt.

The real question is... will mankind survive itself?

The Ninth Scribe
Hmmm. I'm gonna say yes.
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Fishman
05-17-2008, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by Air Jordan
Are you the internet embodiment of Gaia herself...reaching out to the LI Islamic forum to warn of us of our foolish ways? Let me be the first to welcome you. Can we get you something? A margarita with rock salt perhaps?

A humble request, however. Could you lighten up a bit on the genocidal claims? That is definitely hitting below the Van Allen belt.



Hmmm. I'm gonna say yes.
:sl:
I like the Gaia theory, but I think its rather naive to take it literally...
:w:
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truemuslim
05-19-2008, 12:24 AM
50,000 KILLED...SO FAR!!
(in china)
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Ninth_Scribe
05-20-2008, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I like the Gaia theory, but I think its rather naive to take it literally...
:w:
It wasn't a "Gaia" story. That was an interject from another poster who apparently believes we can pollute the world without any consequence at all. But I do study reports, some of which come to me from very amusing dialogues. For instance, I once joked on a Jewish thread saying: Did something get into the water that made everyone go crazy? And I was answered by a member of the Israeli government who was conducting a study. He said: Funny you should mention that... and went on to explain to me that the Jordon river was testing positive for pregnancy - it was flooded with birth control hormones! I don't know what effect they would have on the males, but it can't be good. Recently, here in America, they're finding other drugs in the water supply too. It's already 115 degrees in Arizona and it's only May. Oh, and we now have physical evidence that the white house has "influenced" an EPA decision:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/19/usa1

Mankind is doing this all by himself. "Gaia" doesn't even have to lift her middle finger.

But whatever.
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MTAFFI
05-20-2008, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
It wasn't a "Gaia" story. That was an interject from another poster who apparently believes we can pollute the world without any consequence at all. But I do study reports, some of which come to me from very amusing dialogues. For instance, I once joked on a Jewish thread saying: Did something get into the water that made everyone go crazy? And I was answered by a member of the Israeli government who was conducting a study. He said: Funny you should mention that... and went on to explain to me that the Jordon river was testing positive for pregnancy - it was flooded with birth control hormones! I don't know what effect they would have on the males, but it can't be good. Recently, here in America, they're finding other drugs in the water supply too. It's already 115 degrees in Arizona and it's only May. Oh, and we now have physical evidence that the white house has "influenced" an EPA decision:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nati...ry/539579.html

Mankind is doing all by himself. "Gaia" doesn't have to lift a finger.

But whatever.
what about the indisputable fact that the earth consistently cycles through changes in climate? There have been many ice ages and the following is an extremely harsh heated climate... What about the fact that while it may be 115 in Arizona it is much cooler in other areas... such as Charlotte (check it out if you want).. Didn't it snow in Iraq this year?

To be honest I think that man has definitely left a footprint on Earth, and it is possible and probable that we may have sped up some processes or at the least helped them along, but the fact remains that our world doesn't rotate the sun in an exact circle. Sometimes the rotation is elliptical others it is more round, we are coming to a time when we are closing in on the sun a bit more than we used to, that is what is causes temperature rises and perpetuates the cycles that have changed this world since the beginning of time.
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Ninth_Scribe
05-20-2008, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
what about the indisputable fact that the earth consistently cycles through changes in climate?
That's very true MTAFFI, and I have no intention of denying that. I'm just saying we've added another cycle, so we have the natural one and our own to contend with. As if the natural one wasn't bad enough? Personally, I'm not fond of the idea that anti-deppressants and birth control hormones are in the drinking water. But then again, I'm not fond of a lot of things about the Earth, lol.

The Ninth Scribe
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MTAFFI
05-20-2008, 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
That's very true MTAFFI, and I have no intention of denying that. I'm just saying we've added another cycle, so we have the natural one and our own to contend with. As if the natural one wasn't bad enough?

The Ninth Scribe
At the rate we are going today, we will cycle ourselves out... i dont think we have to worry about the earth doing it for us :-[ I agree with you though, that is what I meant by "leaving a footprint"
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Ninth_Scribe
05-20-2008, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
At the rate we are going today, we will cycle ourselves out... i dont think we have to worry about the earth doing it for us :-[ I agree with you though, that is what I meant by "leaving a footprint"
I know, I feel the same way. But then again, there are some stories that are encouraging. Maybe this species will do better?

But seeing Kamunyak for the first time is nothing short of witnessing a miracle. Appearing out of nowhere, the lion and the lamb curl up side by side. Fascinated, Saba follows them for days. She’s not alone in her astonishment, gawping gazelles bark out their alarm, not quite believing their eyes.

http://www.lewa.org/oryx-lioness.php
The Ninth Scribe
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MTAFFI
05-20-2008, 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
I know, I feel the same way. But then again, there are some stories that are encouraging. Maybe this species will do better?



The Ninth Scribe
That is a pretty wild story... hope that lion finds its way back to a pack
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Fishman
05-20-2008, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
what about the indisputable fact that the earth consistently cycles through changes in climate? There have been many ice ages and the following is an extremely harsh heated climate... What about the fact that while it may be 115 in Arizona it is much cooler in other areas... such as Charlotte (check it out if you want).. Didn't it snow in Iraq this year?

To be honest I think that man has definitely left a footprint on Earth, and it is possible and probable that we may have sped up some processes or at the least helped them along, but the fact remains that our world doesn't rotate the sun in an exact circle. Sometimes the rotation is elliptical others it is more round, we are coming to a time when we are closing in on the sun a bit more than we used to, that is what is causes temperature rises and perpetuates the cycles that have changed this world since the beginning of time.
:sl:
During the palaeocene/eocene thermal maximum the earth's temperature shot up by six or so degrees over a period of thousands of years, and was so bad that there were palm trees in the arctic circle. Scientists are predicting that temperatures may rise by a similar amount over the next hundred years. The PETM (caused by either a disastrous methane release or a volcano blowing up a load of oil) is classified as a hyperthermal event. I wonder what that makes current global warming?


:w:
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Ninth_Scribe
05-20-2008, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
That is a pretty wild story... hope that lion finds its way back to a pack
Yes, but it was refreshing to see. I watched the video documentary on AP (Animal Planet) last week, it was fabulous! Everything except the end that is. Just thought I'd throw that in the mix here to break up the monotony, lol.

The Ninth Scribe
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MTAFFI
05-20-2008, 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
During the palaeocene/eocene thermal maximum the earth's temperature shot up by six or so degrees over a period of thousands of years, and was so bad that there were palm trees in the arctic circle. Scientists are predicting that temperatures may rise by a similar amount over the next hundred years. The PETM (caused by either a disastrous methane release or a volcano blowing up a load of oil) is classified as a hyperthermal event. I wonder what that makes current global warming?


:w:
the thing is that scientists have merely noticed increased and decreased temperatures in the past maybe 100 years at best, how can you make an accurate analysis with only that small amount of data? For all we know the earth temperature might drop in the next 100 years, or stay the same or perhaps rise a bit... Have you watched the weather channel lately? They are never right! lol... Any scientists that is predicting the temperatures to rise over the next hundred years is only predicting, he doesnt know for sure and no one else does either... We could be on the brink of a hyperthermal event and that may be what cycle the earth is building up to right now.. Yellowstone could erupt in the next 10 minutes and wipe out 99.9% of life on earth within the next year, but know one knows.

Anyways, the idea is worth entertaining and should be examined and researched more, but given the fact that the average man gives out more CO2 than a car, throughout his life, I am not really buying into it just yet.
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Ninth_Scribe
05-20-2008, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
During the palaeocene/eocene thermal maximum the earth's temperature shot up by six or so degrees over a period of thousands of years, and was so bad that there were palm trees in the arctic circle. Scientists are predicting that temperatures may rise by a similar amount over the next hundred years. The PETM (caused by either a disastrous methane release or a volcano blowing up a load of oil) is classified as a hyperthermal event. I wonder what that makes current global warming?:w:
Yes, I've been montoring that, along with other issues. I mean, it's one thing to have two different cycles (natural and manmade)... but if they collide? This past week I've been tracking volcanic activity, faults and undersea methane concentrations off the California coast.

http://volcano.wr.usgs.gov

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...0/ai_n16692963

http://www.heatisonline.org/contents...07&method=full

I'm also tracking the jet stream and studying how wind carries volcanic ash... it's a cross comparison for pollution standards.

The Ninth Scribe
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