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crayon
05-13-2008, 12:32 PM
More specifically, a woman living in dorms (females only, of course) for university, in a country other than the one her parents live in.

I've heard both sides of the argument but I'm still unsure which is correct... Anyone know about this?
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S_87
05-13-2008, 12:44 PM
Ive never heard its haraam for a woman to live alone :? ok some people may not recommend it for various reasons but that its not permissible, did they give you any reason for their ruling?
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crayon
05-13-2008, 12:47 PM
I'm not sure sis, I tried searching online a while ago, and I got dozens of different answers. There's a lot of incorrect stuff online nowadays, so I didn't know what was right and what wasn't.
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snakelegs
05-13-2008, 07:36 PM
* bump * (i'm curious, too)
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------
05-13-2008, 07:39 PM
:salamext:

If her father and brother and husband have passed away, then?! SHe has to live alone...
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Noora_z3
05-13-2008, 07:44 PM
As far as I know, if its for educational purposes and there are no other options, then its Halal, I mean she is living with other girls after all, there is no harm in that.
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gladTidings
05-13-2008, 08:05 PM
:sl:


I live on my own whilst im at university. I was told that it is okay for a girl to live alone or with other females (i.e there is no ruling against it). I found a fatwa on askimam.org regarding this, I can look for it if you wish. The only issue is that she cannot travel more than 48 km (?) in distance without a mehram.


Personally, I would prefer to have a mehram around though, but hey what can you do...
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------
05-13-2008, 08:21 PM
:salamext:

Init lol.
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crayon
05-14-2008, 08:08 AM
Yeah, about traveling I think it's pretty much unanimous that she needs a mehram, but when it comes to living alone it's where they differ.
As tends to happen a lot, my culture has been mixed with religion on this subject, so I'm not sure what is from culture what is from religion. I've always been told that "it isn't good" for a girl to live alone, but I don't think there is anything in islam that prohibits it. My parents say a girl should have a mehram with her all the time (like not everywhere she goes, of course, but where she lives). Is there any hadith that states this?

So you guys all know there to be nothing wrong with women living alone?
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Snowflake
05-14-2008, 08:38 AM
asalam alaikum wr wb,

I've never come across anything in Islam saying a woman can't live alone.

There is a story (on the forum somewhere) about a young woman who was left in the care of an old man by the name of Barseeha or Bareesa. By 'care' I mean he was asked to keep and eye on her - not live with her. However, I failed in my search to find it. But it shows that a woman is allowed to live alone.

However, Islam recommends that both sexes marry at an early age. Then if a woman is married off when living with her parents, the need to live alone wouldn't be as common as it is today. Most situations arise because we aren't following the sunnah.

wa alaikum asalam wr wb.
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Malaikah
05-14-2008, 09:22 AM
:sl:

If she is living on a country other than the one her parents (and presumably all other mahrams) live in for uni - doesn't that mean she is travelling without a mahram, which is haram in the first place? :?
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Snowflake
05-14-2008, 09:25 AM
asalam alaikum wr wb,

I think it's travelling overnight which is forbidden. BBL, with daleel inshaAllah.


wa alaikum asalam wr wb.
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gladTidings
05-14-2008, 09:36 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

If she is living on a country other than the one her parents (and presumably all other mahrams) live in for uni - doesn't that mean she is travelling without a mahram, which is haram in the first place? :?
Salaam sis. Yes, this is the point I was making, unless a mehram will take her to the country and picks her up and in the mean time she prevents travelling a distance exceeding the maximum allowed without her mehram. She wont be considered as a 'traveller' in that country though, so it shouldnt be haram for her to live there.

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...1d756f5f45040e

Im not aware of any other rulings. Ws
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i_m_tipu
05-14-2008, 09:42 AM
[QUOTE]
Re: Is it haram for a woman to live alone
[\QUOTE]
:sl:
It is not permissible for a man or a woman to pre determined to be alone without any valid reason.
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crayon
05-14-2008, 09:48 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

If she is living on a country other than the one her parents (and presumably all other mahrams) live in for uni - doesn't that mean she is travelling without a mahram, which is haram in the first place? :?
Not necessarily, I know of people whose father flies with them to wherever their uni is, and then comes back the same day. So he basically drops them off and comes back.

Jazaki Allahu Khair for the link, pearl.
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i_m_tipu
05-14-2008, 10:24 AM
FYI

24(An-Noor [The Light])
32-33
And marry those among you who are single (Al-Ayama) and the pious of your servants and maidservants. If they be poor, Allah will enrich them out of His bounty. And Allah is All-Sufficent, All-Knowing.) /(33. And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His bounty. And such of your servants as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you find that there is good and honesty in them. And give them something (yourselves) out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you. And force not your slave-girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, in order that you may make a gain in the goods of this worldly life. But if anyone compels them, then after such compulsion, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Tafsir IBN Kathir

The Command to marry

These clear Ayat include a group of unambiguous rulings and firm commands.
وَأَنْكِحُواْ الأَيَـمَى مِنْكُمْ
(And marry those among you who are single (Al-Ayama)....) This is a command to marry.

The Prophet said:
يَا مَعْشَرَ الشَّبَابِ، مَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ مِنْكُمُ الْبَاءَةَ فَلْيَتَزَوَّجْ، فَإِنَّهُ أَغَضُّ لِلْبَصَرِ وَأَحْصَنُ لِلْفَرْجِ، وَمَنْ لَمْ يَسْتَطِعْ فَعَلَيْهِ بِالصَّوْمِ فَإِنَّهُ لَهُ وِجَاءٌ
(O young men, whoever among you can afford to get married, let him marry, for it is more effective in lowering the gaze and protecting the private parts. Whoever cannot do that, then let him fast, for it is a protection for him.) This was recorded in the Two Sahihs from the Hadith of Ibn Mas`ud. In the Sunan], it was recorded from more than one person that the Messenger of Allah said:
تَزَوَّجُوا تَوَالَدُوا تَنَاسَلُوا فَإِنِّي مُبَاهٍ بِكُمُ الْأُمَمَ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ
(Marry and have children, for I will be proud of you before the nations on the Day of Resurrection.) The word Al-Ayama, the plural form of Ayyim, is used to describe a woman who has no husband and a man who has no wife, regardless of whether they have been married and then separated, or have never been married at all. Al-Jawhari reported this from the scholars of the (Arabic) language, and the word is applied to men and women alike.

إِن يَكُونُواْ فُقَرَآءَ يُغْنِهِمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ
(If they be poor, Allah will enrich them out of His bounty.) `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported from Ibn `Abbas: "Allah encouraged them to get married, commanded both free men and servants to get married, and He promised to enrich them.''
إِن يَكُونُواْ فُقَرَآءَ يُغْنِهِمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ
(If they be poor, Allah will enrich them out of His bounty.) It was recorded that Ibn Mas`ud said: "Seek the richness through marriage, for Allah says:
إِن يَكُونُواْ فُقَرَآءَ يُغْنِهِمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ
(If they be poor, Allah will enrich them out of His bounty.)'' This was recorded by Ibn Jarir. Al-Baghawi also recorded something similar from `Umar. It was reported from Al-Layth from Muhammad bin `Ajlan from Sa`id Al-Maqburi from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah said:
ثَلَاثَةٌ حَقٌّ عَلَى اللهِ عَوْنُهُمْ: النَّاكِحُ يُرِيدُ الْعَفَافَ، وَالْمُكَاتَبُ يُرِيدُ الْأَدَاءَ، وَالْغَازِي فِي سَبِيلِ اللهِ
(There are three whom it is a right upon Allah to help: one who gets married seeking chastity; a slave who makes a contract with his master with the aim of buying his freedom; and one who fights for the sake of Allah.) This was recorded by Imam Ahmad, At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasa'i and Ibn Majah. The Prophet performed the marriage of a man who owned nothing but his waist wrap, and could not even buy a ring made of iron, but he still married him to that woman, making the Mahr his promise to teach her whatever he knew of the Qur'an. And it is known from the generosity and kindness of Allah that He provided him with whatever was sufficient for her and for him.


The Command to keep Oneself Chaste if One is not able to get married

Allah's saying:
وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لاَ يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحاً حَتَّى يُغْنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ
(And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His bounty.) This is a command from Allah to those who do not have the means to get married: they are to keep themselves chaste and avoid unlawful things, as the Prophet said:
يَا مَعْشَرَ الشَّبَابِ مَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ مِنْكُمُ الْبَاءَةَ فَلْيَتَزَوَّجْ فَإِنَّهُ أَغَضُّ لِلْبَصَرِ وَأَحْصَنُ لِلْفَرْجِ، وَمَنْ لَمْ يَسْتَطِعْ فَعَلَيْهِ بِالصَّوْمِ فَإِنَّهُ لَهُ وِجَاءٌ
(O young men, whoever among you can afford to get married, let him marry, for it is more effective in lowering the gaze and protecting the private parts. Whoever cannot do that, then let him fast, for it is a protection for him.) This Ayah is general in meaning, and the Ayah in Surat An-Nisa' is more specific, where Allah says:
وَمَن لَّمْ يَسْتَطِعْ مِنكُمْ طَوْلاً أَن يَنكِحَ الْمُحْصَنَـتِ
(And whoever of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women)until His statement;
وَأَن تَصْبِرُواْ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ
(but it is better for you that you practise self-restraint) ﴿4:25﴾ meaning, it is better for you to be patient and refrain from marrying slave-girl, because any child that is born will also be a slave.

وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
(and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful) ﴿4:25﴾.
وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لاَ يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحاً
(And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste,) `Ikrimah said, "This refers to a man who sees a woman and it is as if he feels desire; if he has a wife then let him go to her and fulfill his desire with her, and if he does not have a wife, then let him ponder the kingdom of heaven and earth until Allah grants him means of livelihood.''
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crayon
05-14-2008, 10:32 AM
Brother, I don't mean live alone forever, I mean live away from her parents while she is finishing university.
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i_m_tipu
05-14-2008, 10:40 AM
Originally Posted by crayon
Brother, I don't mean live alone forever, I mean live away from her parents while she is finishing university.
Sorry sis

subject was "Is it haram for a woman to live alone?" so i thought u r talking abt live alone forever..

Woman needs mahram while she goes outside like u describe. And this for her own safety. mahram suppose to protect and guard her even if the value of his own life. This is what we come to know from Islam.
Like a President need guards while he go outside.
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Umar001
05-14-2008, 12:43 PM
As Salam Alaykum,

It is not simply a matter of whether the act is halal or haram, it is also a matter of whether it leads to halal and haram and many other points. One has to look at the place it is in, the accomodation and many other things I guess. You see somethings are not haram in and of themselves but are haram due to their leading to haram. If you look at Dr Saleh as Saleh's, may Allah have mercy on him, lectures on principles of Fiqh, from I think Shaykh Sa'adi, one of them is tah the means of something takes the ruling of the thing. So if you havea deed which is wajib, anything that leads/helps you to perform that deed may also be wajib. It's more complicated than that but that's part of it.

So it would take a scholar to, accurately, evaluate a situation. Ask scholars if you can, you live in Saudi, that should help insha'Allah. And Allah knows best.


Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
There is a story (on the forum somewhere) about a young woman who was left in the care of an old man by the name of Barseeha or Bareesa. By 'care' I mean he was asked to keep and eye on her - not live with her. However, I failed in my search to find it. But it shows that a woman is allowed to live alone.
The story is of an isralite if I am not mistaken, who was looking after a woman, and ended up killing her and the kid he made her pregnent with, I think, in the end he made sujood to shaytan, check Anwar Al Awlaki's cds for this story, its in there somewhere.

The story sister, may, show that but if it did it would show that it is halal in the Jewish law? Not neccesarily our law, right?

Allah knows best.
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crayon
05-14-2008, 12:54 PM
Yeah, that's exactly how my parents think. My dad is actually going to email a scholar he trusts and describe the whole situation to him, and see what he says. This is a big step, and we want to be 100% sure it's totally okay before we decide on anything.
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Umar001
05-14-2008, 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by crayon
Yeah, that's exactly how my parents think. My dad is actually going to email a scholar he trusts and describe the whole situation to him, and see what he says. This is a big step, and we want to be 100% sure it's totally okay before we decide on anything.
Yes, it is good to get a specific ruling from a scholar then to rely on general rulings online I guess, since there may be differences between your situation and the situation of another fatwa.
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Snowflake
05-14-2008, 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
As Salam Alaykum,
The story is of an isralite if I am not mistaken, who was looking after a woman, and ended up killing her and the kid he made her pregnent with, I think, in the end he made sujood to shaytan, check Anwar Al Awlaki's cds for this story, its in there somewhere.

The story sister, may, show that but if it did it would show that it is halal in the Jewish law? Not neccesarily our law, right?

Allah knows best.
asalam alaikum wr wb,

I'm sure that's not the one bro. It went something like this...
A young woman was left in the care of an old man who was deemed very pious by the people. One day he decided that he should leave her some food (I think) outside her door. He used to knock and walk away. Soon, he decided there was no harm in asking how she is. Then decided there was no harm in talking to her etc.. and so it carried on until he commited sin. Can't remember the ending exactly, but it showed that when we do something that's forbidden, even if our intention is good, it can still lead us to haram.

Btw, I agree with your post about something things aren't haram but can lead to haram.

wa alaikum asalam.
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Umar001
05-14-2008, 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
asalam alaikum wr wb,

I'm sure that's not the one bro. It went something like this...
A young woman was left in the care of an old man who was deemed very pious by the people. One day he decided that he should leave her some food (I think) outside her door. He used to knock and walk away. Soon, he decided there was no harm in asking how she is. Then decided there was no harm in talking to her etc.. and so it carried on until he commited sin. Can't remember the ending exactly, but it showed that when we do something that's forbidden, even if our intention is good, it can still lead us to haram.

Btw, I agree with your post about something things aren't haram but can lead to haram.

wa alaikum asalam.
Wa Alaykum Salam wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

I'm pretty sure its the same story, I recall that name and plus the story I heard goes like what you have discribed. It was a step by step thing, first dropped the food, then talked through the door, then without the door and so forth, then her brothers returned from Jihad or something and asked him where she was etc..
Another thing that was derived from the story is that shaytan does not always come directly, for example, if shaytan came to this man and said 'make sujuud to me' the man would have said no, but shaytan worked his way to it.

Allah knows best.
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Snowflake
05-14-2008, 05:20 PM
asalam alaikum wr wb,

^Yep that's the one. SubhanAllah!

wa alaikum asalam wr wb.
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Malaikah
05-15-2008, 06:54 AM
Originally Posted by crayon
Yeah, that's exactly how my parents think. My dad is actually going to email a scholar he trusts and describe the whole situation to him, and see what he says. This is a big step, and we want to be 100% sure it's totally okay before we decide on anything.
:sl:

MashaAllah, that's the best thing to do. :)
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Nerd
05-15-2008, 07:04 AM
Yep, there are no scholars in this forum to give a ruling on this matter. Best is to consult a scholar.
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-Dragon-
08-07-2009, 02:20 AM
>.< oh gosh, i am so confused now.
it's like back and forth "yes" "no", "yes" "no".

imsad
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GuestFellow
08-07-2009, 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by crayon
Yeah, that's exactly how my parents think. My dad is actually going to email a scholar he trusts and describe the whole situation to him, and see what he says. This is a big step, and we want to be 100% sure it's totally okay before we decide on anything.
Asslamu Alikum

Please let us know what the scholar states. It would be good for future references and for other members to know as well.
Reply

celina
08-07-2009, 02:56 PM
This is a good discussion mashAllah, I have been thinking of moving away for my post graduate studies but was unsure and then my parents they may not be comfortable as they will fear for me.
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alcurad
08-07-2009, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by someone
A young woman was left in the care of an old man who was deemed very pious by the people. One day he decided that he should leave her some food (I think) outside her door. He used to knock and walk away. Soon, he decided there was no harm in asking how she is. Then decided there was no harm in talking to her etc.. and so it carried on until he commited sin. Can't remember the ending exactly, but it showed that when we do something that's forbidden, even if our intention is good, it can still lead us to haram.
fictional evidence is not evidence, and isolated cases are isolated cases.
Reply

crayon
08-07-2009, 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Asslamu Alikum

Please let us know what the scholar states. It would be good for future references and for other members to know as well.
Wa alaikum asalam

He said it was not permissible. We said that my father would do the 'traveling' with me, take me there and take me back, and I'd stay at the girls only dorms in uni, in a muslim country. The scholar said he would not say it were permissible, that he was of the opinion that it wasn't.
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Somaiyah
08-09-2009, 01:31 PM
Salam,
It might not be good for the woman to do, sometimes not very likely or normal in some countries etc. But for example me I have to live by myself, I will move to an own apartment this month inshallah because I have to start studies far away from home. If you want to move just because you don't want to be with your parents anymore, then I feel there is some problem between you and the parents only (not talking about you as a person, just you randomly). But if you have to, no other opportunity, then I don't feel it's wrong. But these are my thoughts.
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