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'Abd-al Latif
05-18-2008, 04:22 PM
An American sniper has been sent home from Iraq for using a copy of the Koran for target practice at a shooting range near Baghdad, the US military says.





The Muslim holy book was found riddled with bullet holes last week by Iraqi police, who also discovered offensive graffiti inside its cover.
A US military spokesman said the soldier had been removed from his unit, sent home, and would be disciplined.

He was unnamed, but was reportedly a staff sergeant in a sniper section.
US military spokesman Colonel Bill Buckner said the incident was "both serious and deeply troubling", but stressed it was an "isolated incident and a result of one soldier's actions".

The US army's commander in Baghdad, Major-General Jeffery Hammond, made a personal apology to local Sunni Arab leaders in Radwaniya, CNN reported.

On arrival, he was met by hundreds of protesting tribesmen.
"In the most humble manner, I look into your eyes today and I say, please forgive me and my soldiers," Gen Hammond said, according to CNN.

The military presented the elders with a new copy of the Koran.
An Iraqi community leader said Sunni Arab tribal units who fought alongside US forces had threatened to quit, but that the US apology had assuaged their anger.

"I was feeling bitterness, but as long as they apologised we are okay with them. Our anger has cooled," Saeed al-Zubaie told Reuters.
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'Abd-al Latif
05-21-2008, 10:03 PM
:raging:
Reply

barney
05-21-2008, 10:10 PM
Al Quada blew up 8 civilians that same week. They used an 8 year old Girl as the bomber.

I wonder which event will cause the most fury amongst the ummah?
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-21-2008, 10:11 PM
Both of course. Cant choose just 1.
Reply

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جوري
05-21-2008, 10:13 PM
pls al qaeda shmyda.. is that anything like the easter bunny and santi clause.. the hilarity
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Cabdullahi
05-21-2008, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Al Quada blew up 8 civilians that same week. They used an 8 year old Girl as the bomber.

I wonder which event will cause the most fury amongst the ummah?
al QAIDA WHO? come on!!! brother there is no alqaida
Reply

Cabdullahi
05-21-2008, 10:16 PM
I dont believe in osama or the 9/11 attacks and i also dont believe in the boogey man
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barney
05-21-2008, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
pls al qaeda shmyda.. is that anything like the easter bunny and santi clause.. the hilarity
A doctor finding death hilarious?
Even Harold Shipman diddnt laugh at it.
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Na7lah
05-21-2008, 10:18 PM
didn't this all happen somwer last week?

Subhanallah people are so misguided! don't they fear wat might happen to them?
Audhubillah!
Reply

Umar001
05-21-2008, 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Al Quada blew up 8 civilians that same week. They used an 8 year old Girl as the bomber.

I wonder which event will cause the most fury amongst the ummah?
Do you understand the difference though? Having an enemy do something which you expect the enemy may do, can be bad, but is to some extent expected. Having an ally do something which an enemy would do is, no matter how trivial it may seem, really shocking.

So if someone takes Al Qaeda as enemy and Us as allies and finds out what happend it may upset them in different ways.
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jzcasejz
05-21-2008, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Al Quada blew up 8 civilians that same week.
A teenaged girl blew herself up outside an Iraqi army post south of Baghdad on Wednesday, killing one soldier, the U.S. military said
Seven Iraqi soldiers were also wounded in the attack, the military said.
Originally Posted by barney
They used an 8 year old Girl as the bomber.
A military spokeswoman said the girl was between 16 and 18 years old.
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/world...46111020080514

Now I'm not justifying anything, just making my point.

I wonder which event will cause the most fury amongst the ummah?
Hmmm. Got anything directly related to the topic?
Reply

جوري
05-21-2008, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by barney
A doctor finding death hilarious?
Even Harold Shipman diddnt laugh at it.
should the word death by itself rouse a reaction? I don't take things at face value.. I know that is what the media expects you to do when feeding you 'news' /opinions but I fear it has no impact on me what so ever... seeing for oneself and hearing about from parties with agenda are subjects entirely different. What I see are Muslims suffering the world over as I travel war torn regions.. what I hear on the news in fabricated propaganda for the purpose of promoting the globalization agenda and breaking apart the umma...

I am a Muslim.. and المؤمن كيّس فطن
I should really make that my signature from now on

cheerio
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Amadeus85
05-21-2008, 10:24 PM
It's nothing new to say but war turns people into savages often and during the war man often shows his worst side.
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barney
05-21-2008, 10:33 PM
I'll point out that shooting up a book is just stupid. Shooting up a Holy Book is wrong and shooting up a Quran is stupid , wrong and likely to get people killed.

The Soldier in question was a moron.

He was recognised as a moron and has been punished as such.

War is indeed hidious, Simple rules such as the geneva convention try to limit the buisness.
When one side is using human sheilds, Child Bombs, deliberate targeting of innocents, torture, terror tactics and unadulterated evil as a weapon, it's not hard, one would think, to either condem this or at least have the affair raise some emotion in a person.

For some people its harder than it looks. Cartoons and Bullets into inanimate objects seem to raise much more distress amongst those sitting in comfort and safety.
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Air Jordan
05-21-2008, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
pls al qaeda shmyda.. is that anything like the easter bunny and santi clause.. the hilarity
Indeed. The mythical Al Quaeda gets blamed for everything. Youssifiyah Girl Scout Troop Number 322 subsequently claimed responsibility.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...g-mission.html

BTW, subsequent reports suggested she was closer to 16 so everything is just fine.
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barney
05-21-2008, 10:41 PM
Sorry, I stand corrected on the attack. It was indeed against a military target, the legitimate government of the Iraqi people. If the bomber hadnt been a Kid then apart from the ridiculous stupidity of strapping explosives to your body, then I would class it as a insurgant attack. I was mixing it up with the 99 civvys dead from the Downs syndrome bombers a few weeks back.
I dont know if the hilarity or indifference is increased by the body count. If the former then i'm glad to raise a smile, if the latter hope I havnt bored anyone into a slumber.
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Cabdullahi
05-21-2008, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by barney
For some people its harder than it looks. Cartoons and Bullets into inanimate objects seem to raise much more distress amongst those sitting in comfort and safety.
This is islam, where ever we are we will inshallah keep this unity amongst the ummah the one who are in constant terror and the one who are comfortable and safe both will show distress because if we didnt then we would be dummies.whenever you try to type something in relation to this type of topic i would advice you to think twice and also have a brief thought that we muslims are passionate about our religion :)
Reply

جوري
05-21-2008, 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by Air Jordan
Indeed. The mythical Al Quaeda gets blamed for everything. Youssifiyah Girl Scout Troop Number 322 subsequently claimed responsibility.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...g-mission.html

BTW, subsequent reports suggested she was closer to 16 so everything is just fine.
I am sold.. your telegraph uk is a poster paper for credenza...
You should enlist yourself luke and do something about this injustice first hand, rather than bore me with platitude on a public forum..

cheers
Reply

barney
05-21-2008, 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
This is islam, where ever we are we will inshallah keep this unity amongst the ummah the one who are in constant terror and the one who are comfortable and safe both will show distress because if we didnt then we would be dummies.whenever you try to type something in relation to this type of topic i would advice you to think twice and also have a brief thought that we muslims are passionate about our religion :)


I know you are passionate about the religion, and theres nothing wrong with that , to a point.

It still stands that this "Sniper" will receive more hatred from the Ummah than the killers of that Girl ever will. Check out the reactions to this as they happen. If I'm wrong, then I'll accept it.
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Cabdullahi
05-21-2008, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Air Jordan
Indeed. The mythical Al Quaeda gets blamed for everything. Youssifiyah Girl Scout Troop Number 322 subsequently claimed responsibility.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...g-mission.html

BTW, subsequent reports suggested she was closer to 16 so everything is just fine.
'AIR' jordan and hes garbage point of view that smells like really bad 'wind'
Reply

barney
05-21-2008, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
I am sold.. your telegraph uk is a poster paper for credenza...
You should enlist yourself luke and do something about this injustice first hand, rather than bore me with platitude on a public forum..

cheers
Bored enough to reply :D

I now have reliable evidence that on september the eleventh 2001, Santa Claus crashed his sleigh into the Twin Towers.
The Tooth Fairy in a vidieo accepted responsibility for planning the attack.
Reply

جوري
05-21-2008, 10:52 PM
eh as good as any other article the pseudo intellects plaster on here for insta smarts?


David Leigh
Britain�s security services and journalists: the secret story
British Journalism Review
Vol. 11, No. 2, 2000, pages 21-26


David Leigh is Editor of The Guardian�s comment page and former Assistant Editor at The Observer. He is a distinguished investigative reporter and formerly a producer for Granada�s World in Action programme.


Contents - Vol 11, No. 2, 2000
Editorial - Time for quality to show courage

Bill Hagerty - Cap'n Spin does lose his rag!

David Leigh - Britain's security services and journalists: the secret story

Dennis Topping - The business dailies

Brian Winston - There's still hope for newspapers

Mick Hume and Richard Tait - The LM-ITN clash

Barbara Lewis - The politics of oil - and media madness

Anthony Sampson - Whatever happened to the first draft?

J O Baylen - The Telegraph's first Kremlinologist


BOOK REVIEWS
Cal McCrystal on Max Hastings

Jonathan Fenby on The Express

Robin Lustig on War reporting

Ivor Gaber on Michael Brunson

British journalists � and British journals � are being manipulated by the secret intelligence agencies, and I think we ought to try and put a stop to it.
The manipulation takes three forms. The first is the attempt to recruit journalists to spy on other people, or for spies to go themselves under journalistic �cover�. This occurs today and it has gone on for years. It is dangerous, not only for the journalist concerned, but for other journalists who get tarred with the espionage brush. Farzad Bazoft was a colleague of mine on the London Observer when he was executed by Saddam Hussein for espionage. It did not, in a sense, matter whether he was really a spy or not. Either way, he ended up dead.

The second form of manipulation that worries me is when intelligence officers are allowed to pose as journalists in order to write tendentious articles under false names. Evidence of this only rarely comes to light, but two examples have surfaced recently � mainly because of the whistleblowing activities of a couple of renegade officers � David Shayler from MI5 and Richard Tomlinson from MI6.

The third sort of manipulation is the most insidious � when intelligence agency propaganda stories are planted on willing journalists, who disguise their origin from their readers. There is � or has been until recently � a very active programme by the secret agencies to colour what appears in the British press, called, if publications by various defectors can be believed, �I/Ops�. That is an abbreviation for Information Operations, and I am � unusually � in a position to provide some information about it.

Let us take that third allegation first. Black propaganda � false material where the source is disguised � has been a tool of British intelligence agencies since the days of the war, when the Special Operations Executive got up to all kinds of tricks with clandestine radio stations, to drip pornography and pessimism into the ears of impressionable German soldiers. Post-war, this unwholesome game mutated into the anti-Soviet Information Research Department. Its task was ostensibly to plant anti-communist stories in the press of the third world, but its lurid tales of Marxist drunkenness and corruption sometimes leaked back to confuse the readers of the British media. A colourful example of the way these techniques expand to meet the exigencies of the hour came in the early 1970s, when the readers of the News of the World found before their eyes � and no doubt to their bewilderment � a front page splash, Russian Sub in IRA plot sensation, complete with aerial photograph of a Soviet conning tower awash off the coast of Donegal. That was the work of Hugh Mooney of the IRD, an organisation which was eventually closed down in 1977. Its spirit did not die, however. Nearly 25 years later, readers of the Sunday Telegraph were regaled with a dramatic story about the son of Col Gadafy of Libya and his alleged connection to a currency counterfeiting plan. The story was written by Con Coughlin, the paper�s then chief foreign correspondent, and it was falsely attributed to a �British banking official�. In fact, it had been given to him by officers of MI6, who, it transpired, had been supplying Coughlin with material for years.




Writ
The origins of that November 1995 Telegraph article only came to light when they were recently disclosed by Mark Hollingsworth, the biographer of renegade security service officer David Shayler. Shayler had worked on MI5�s Libya desk at the time, in liaison with his counterparts in the foreign espionage service, MI6, and had come away with a detailed knowledge of events, and a bundle of secret documents to back them up. The allegations were confirmed from an unexpected direction. The Sunday Telegraph was served with a libel writ by Gadafy�s son. The paper was unable to back up its suggestion that Gadafy junior might have been linked to a fraud, but pleaded, in effect, that it had been supplied with the material by the Government. In a long and detailed statement, which entered the public domain in the course of a judgment given in an interlocutory appeal on 28 October 1998, the paper described how, under Charles Moore�s editorship, a lunch had been arranged with the then Conservative foreign secretary, Malcolm Rifkind, at which Con Coughlin had been present. Told by Rifkind that countries such as Iran were trying to get hold of hard currency to beat sanctions, Coughlin was later briefed by an MI6 man � his regular contact. Some weeks afterward, he was introduced to a second MI6 man, who spent several hours with him and handed over extensive details of the story about Gadafy�s son. Although Coughlin asked for evidence, and was shown purported bank statements, the pleadings make clear that he was dependent on MI6 for the discreditable details about the alleged counterfeiting scam. He was required to keep the source strictly confidential.
Throughout the formal pleadings, the Telegraph preserved the fig-leaf of its sources by referring to a �Western government security agency�. But this veil of coyness was blown away by City solicitor David Hooper in his book on libel published in March, Reputations Under Fire, where he says briskly: �In reality [they were] members of MI6� So, unusually, an MI6 exercise in planting a story has been laid bare. Now, there is no suggestion that Con Coughlin is dishonest in his work. He is a perfectly conscientious journalist who I expect did his best to substantiate his facts and undoubtedly believed in their truth. But nevertheless, those facts may not have been true. And I believe he made a serious mistake in falsely attributing his story to a �British banking official�. His readers ought to know where his material is coming from. When the Sunday Telegraph got into trouble with the libel case, it seems, after all, to have suddenly found it possible to become a lot more specific about its sources.

This was not an isolated example of recent MI6 �I/Ops�. In August 1997, the present foreign editor of the Independent, Leonard Doyle, was also in contact with MI6 while he was at his previous post at the Observer. I know, because I became involved in an MI6-inspired story as a result. Doyle�s MI6 contact supplied him with intelligence information about an Iranian exile who, while running a pizza business in Glasgow, was also attempting to lay hands on a sophisticated mass spectrometer which could be used for measuring uranium enrichment � a key stage in acquiring components for a nuclear bomb. We were supplied with a mass of apparently high quality intelligence from MI6, including surveillance details of an Istanbul hotel meeting between our pizza merchant and men involved in Iranian nuclear procurement.

I should make clear that we did not publish merely on the say-so of MI6. We travelled to Glasgow, confronted the pizza merchant, and only when he admitted that he had been dealing with representatives of the nuclear industry in Iran, did we publish an article. In that story we made it plain that our target had been watched by western intelligence. Nevertheless, I felt uneasy, and vowed never to take part in such an exercise again. Although all parties, from the foreign editor down, behaved scrupulously, we had been obliged to conceal from our readers the full facts and had ended up, in effect, acting as government agents.

Now, after the Tomlinson/Shayler defections and the subsequent revelation of MI6�s continuing �I/Ops� programme of which my Iranian experience was plainly a part, I think the cause of honest journalism is best served by candour. We all ought to come clean about these approaches, and devise some ethics to deal with them. In our vanity, we imagine that we control these sources. But the truth is that they are very deliberately seeking to control us.




Jigsaw
The second intelligence tactic of manipulation in my list which gives concern, is the habit of allowing spooks to write under false names. It was Tomlinson, I suspect, who, having worked in the area, first blew the whistle on this one. And it was a recently published book � MI6 by Stephen Dorril � which once again added the final piece of the jigsaw. Two articles appeared in the Spectator magazine in early 1994 under the by-line �Kenneth Roberts�. They were datelined Sarajevo, and �Roberts� was described as having been working with the UN in Bosnia as an �advisor�. In fact, he was MI6 officer Keith Robert Craig (the pseudonym was a simple one), whose local cover was as a civilian �attached� to the British military unit�s Balkan secretariat. At the time, Bosnia was the site of attacks and atrocities from neighbouring Serbia, and also the focus of some passionate reporting from British journalists. The British military were there as UN �peacekeepers�, but anyone who read �Roberts�s�� articles might have begun to wonder whether it was not a better policy for British troops to go home and leave the Serbs a free hand. The first article on 5 February, rehearsed arguments for a UN withdrawal, pointing out that all sides committed atrocities. The second piece complained, baselessly, about �warped� and inaccurate reporting by journalists, including the BBC�s Kate Adie.
It is possible, of course, that Craig was merely overcome with private literary urges whilst marooned in the Balkans, and thought it more politic to express his own opinions under a �nom de plume�. But one of the traditional roles of �I/Ops� is to plant stories. What is not clear is how the introduction to the Spectator was made, or whether Craig confided his real trade to the then editor of the Spectator, Dominic Lawson. In his recent published compilation about MI6, the author Stephen Dorril points out that Dominic Lawson�s brother-in-law at the time, Anthony Monckton, was himself a serving MI6 officer, who was to take over the Zagreb station in the Balkans in 1996. (Rosa Monckton, his sister and Dominic Lawson�s wife, was the late Princess Diana�s close friend.).

These relationships � which the disenchanted Tomlinson knew all about because he had himself served undercover in the Balkans in the same time-frame, and which have only slowly emerged into the public domain � have become the subject of a swirl of rumour. There is no reason to believe the Editor of the Spectator did anything improper at all, and certainly no reason to think, as he has been forced to deny, that he was acting as an agent of MI6, whether paid or unpaid. But, for an editor, it must be a bad idea to end up in a position where an MI6 officer is writing for your publication on matters of political controversy, under a false name. Transparency is better.

The final malpractice which the Tomlinson/Shayler defections have brought to light, is the continuing deliberate blurring by MI6 of the line between journalist and spy. This is an old crime � Kim Philby, former foreign correspondent of The Observer would have had plenty of stories to tell about that. But it should be exposed and stopped. Tomlinson himself, by his own account, spent six months in 1993 travelling around Croatia and Serbia trying to recruit informants, under the guise of a British journalist. Dorril, in his book, further asserts that the Spectator itself was unknowingly used as �cover� by no fewer than three MI6 officers working in Bosnia, Belgrade, and Moldova.

The most dismaying allegation floated by Tomlinson was that he had heard tell within MI6 of a �national newspaper editor� who was used as an agent, and had received up to �100,000 in covert payments, accessed at an offshore bank, via a false passport obligingly supplied by MI6 itself. This claim set off a hue and cry, during which the hapless Dominic Lawson was obliged to issue his denial, and other editors came under suspicious scrutiny. In fact, I believe Tomlinson has been wrongly reported. Those who have talked to him in detail say that he has no first-hand knowledge, but merely knew of something a colleague obliquely mentioned. Hearing the words �editor� and �national newspaper�, Tomlinson jumped to the wrong conclusion, and then started guessing. Spies are, after all, very like journalists in their methods � but merely less reliable. What those in the newspaper business know is that there is all the difference in the world between �the Editor� and �an editor�. Newspapers have, for example, education editors; they have environment editors; they have defence editors (not, I should say, that I have any evidence against any individual members of these categories). And it would be a senior journalist at that level, who could travel, see things, report back, who would be of more practical use in the business of espionage than, say the Editor of The Times. So the hunt is still on for the miscreant. And miscreant he is: for, make no mistake, this kind of behaviour by journalists is dangerous and wrong.

Our first task as practitioners is to document what goes on in this very furtive field. Our second task ought to be to hold an open debate on what the proper relations between the intelligence agencies and the media ought to be. And our final task must then be to find ways of actually behaving more sensibly.
http://www.bjr.org.uk/data/2000/no2_leigh.htm

Maybe that is why some of us take this crap with a grain of salt..

cheers
Reply

barney
05-21-2008, 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
eh as good as any other article the pseudo intellects plaster on here for insta smarts?



http://www.bjr.org.uk/data/2000/no2_leigh.htm

Maybe that is why some of us take this crap with a grain of salt..

cheers
Take it with a skipful of salt. The Dead still need burying, what parts of them can be found.
Reply

Air Jordan
05-21-2008, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
eh as good as any other article the pseudo intellects plaster on here for insta smarts?

Maybe that is why some of us take this crap with a grain of salt..

cheers
Whatever floats you boat, madam.

Here is Reuters, which was busted for posting doctored photos of Israeli bombing in Lebanon (to make the damage look worse)

No doubt they are in the employ of Her Majesty as well.

http://www.reuters.com/article/world...46111020080514
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جوري
05-21-2008, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Bored enough to reply :D
Aha.. do you like that? Luke here has been having a crisis since his old man turned out to be a force for the dark side.. this is his way of reconciling his agony.. the occasional public outcry though cathertic does get tedious after a while... people are going to have to charge per minute for sitting here reading crap...

cheers
Reply

جوري
05-21-2008, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by Air Jordan
Whatever floats you boat, madam.

Here is Reuters, which was busted for posting doctored photos of Israeli bombing in Lebanon (to make the damage look worse)

No doubt they are in the employ of Her Majesty as well.

http://www.reuters.com/article/world...46111020080514
You should really enroll in some kinda of program for the attention challenged luke .. try to read about a topic and stick to it, now that you've defined for us your convictions.. what did we say about platitudes? or do you want a medal commemorating you google searchin finger?


May the force suck you into a parallel vortex..

cheerio
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truemuslim
05-21-2008, 11:18 PM
Thats so stupid.
they say bush "apologized" for it....
if he is wanting forgivness for real den he really is like so freakin retarded.

i fink we shud use the soldiers to test out OUR target shots :Evil:
am kiddin.......well on the forum am kiddin :Evil:
Reply

barney
05-21-2008, 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by truemuslim
Thats so stupid.
they say bush "apologized" for it....
if he is wanting forgivness for real den he really is like so freakin retarded.

i fink we shud use the soldiers to test out OUR target shots :Evil:
am kiddin.......well on the forum am kiddin :Evil:
Bush diddnt apologise, the Military commander did. He humbled himself before the people and asked for forgiveness.

Responding to one soldiers illegal and stupid actions after an apology and punishment for the perpatrator, with death isnt IMHO from what I know of Islam, very Islamic.
Reply

wth1257
05-22-2008, 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Al Quada blew up 8 civilians that same week. They used an 8 year old Girl as the bomber.

I wonder which event will cause the most fury amongst the ummah?

Important point.

I come from a big military family, have a lot of military friends, know a lot of career military people, live in the most militrized district in the US, and have been on military bases quite a bit, and based on that, and things soldiers have said about this, whoever this guy is is going to be in trouble beyond belief. Not so much because the military loves Islam so much but because he has put his fellow soldiers in even greater danger, threatens to destroy fragil alliances, and have publically embarased the US Army.

I'm sure they can find something in UCMJ to throw at him, at the very least his career is likely over.

Haveing said that, what Berney has said is very important, shoulden't people be more worried about the people murdering innocents?
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TrueStranger
05-22-2008, 12:27 AM
Originally Posted by jzcasejz
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/world...46111020080514

Now I'm not justifying anything, just making my point.



Hmmm. Got anything directly related to the topic?
Let the truth shine.....
Reply

wth1257
05-22-2008, 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
This is islam, where ever we are we will inshallah keep this unity amongst the ummah the one who are in constant terror and the one who are comfortable and safe both will show distress because if we didnt then we would be dummies.whenever you try to type something in relation to this type of topic i would advice you to think twice and also have a brief thought that we muslims are passionate about our religion :)
I actually really admire how passionate most Muslims I know about their religion, however this seems misdirected.

Dismissing Al-Quaida and the crimes they have commited helps no one and will only creat a greater divide between the Muslims and Muslims world.

This soldier did a bad thing, he will be punished, harshly I'd be willing to bet.

But when Muslims seems justly outraged by Gitmo prison guards desicrating the Koran, or this Sniper shooting one, but seem to dismiss Al-Quaida and their respective atrocities it is puzzling and hard to defend aghinst those who say Muslims are evil.
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jzcasejz
05-22-2008, 12:35 AM
Originally Posted by wth1257
Haveing said that, what Berney has said is very important, shoulden't people be more worried about the people murdering innocents?
OK, let's just say point taken. But tell me, how is someone posting the news article being equal to us not being "more worried about the people murdering innocents"? Why suddenly go all beserk in this thread and start asking rather off-topic questions when the article about the Quran was posted? Why was all this prompted in this thread in particular?
Reply

barney
05-22-2008, 12:42 AM
I posted it because, although the incident is serious, and the Ummah are going to be rightfully demanding redress on this event, it's this sort of incident that seems alone to gather the ummahs wrath.
Imagine One Billion muslims standing together against the few hundred thousand of their own who deface not the Quran, but Islam Itself with their actions.
Reply

wth1257
05-22-2008, 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by jzcasejz
OK, let's just say point taken. But tell me, how is someone posting the news article being equal to us not being "more worried about the people murdering innocents"?
It was based on some of the comments I read, I was posting my reaction to that and the other replies.

Why suddenly go all beserk in this thread and start asking rather off-topic questions when the article about the Quran was posted? W
Respectfully, I don't think I went beserk, most of the post was devoted to the soldier.

hy was all this prompted in this thread in particular?

because of the replies, one poster insinuating threats and another deneying Al-Quaida.

I wasen't trying to really derail the topic, but I think it is related, if not I apologize:)
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truemuslim
05-22-2008, 01:06 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Bush diddnt apologise, the Military commander did. He humbled himself before the people and asked for forgiveness.

Responding to one soldiers illegal and stupid actions after an apology and punishment for the perpatrator, with death isnt IMHO from what I know of Islam, very Islamic.
oh. so they flippin words around now eh.
interesting...
lol
Reply

jzcasejz
05-22-2008, 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by barney
I posted it because, although the incident is serious, and the Ummah are going to be rightfully demanding redress on this event, it's this sort of incident that seems alone to gather the ummahs wrath.
Imagine One Billion muslims standing together against the few hundred thousand of their own who deface not the Quran, but Islam Itself with their actions.
Righty-o then, I see what you're getting at. I shall be out tomorrow... condemning.

Originally Posted by wth1257
I wasen't trying to really derail the topic, but I think it is related, if not I apologize:)
Oops my bad, I may have sounded a little harsh in that post. It wasn't directly at you, it was about the original point Barney raised and why it was placed here in the first place, that's all. :peace: Anyways, sorry for the mixup....
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wth1257
05-22-2008, 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by jzcasejz


Oops my bad, I may have sounded a little harsh in that post. It wasn't directly at you, it was about the original point Barney raised and why it was placed here in the first place, that's all. :peace: Anyways, sorry for the mixup....
No problem:D
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Air Jordan
05-22-2008, 01:13 AM
Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
'AIR' jordan and hes garbage point of view that smells like really bad 'wind'
Oh...I get it..."air"..."wind"

Haha, good one ol' chap. And who said there will never be anyone to replace Noel Coward?
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Air Jordan
05-22-2008, 01:23 AM
Originally Posted by jzcasejz
...<snip>..Why suddenly go all beserk in this thread and start asking rather off-topic questions when the article about the Quran was posted? Why was all this prompted in this thread in particular?
I don't think anyone went beserk (well maybe one) :D

Nor do I think introducing some context by drawing a valid comparison is really "off-topic". Otherwise, there isn't much to say, is there.


A US soldier, who by now should certainly should have known better, was disrepectful to the Quran. I think we can safely deduce the soldier was not Muslim. It was discovered, he was disciplined, removed from Iraq and the commanding General of US forces in Baghdad went down personally to apologize. The local tribal elder accepted the apology.

A more germane question might be why the original story was posted. What was the point? I think it was to throw some chum in the water to attract the attention of the board sharks.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-22-2008, 01:25 AM
A more germane question might be why the original story was posted. What was the point? I think it was to throw some chum in the water to attract the attention of the board sharks.
It is an Islamic forum after all. Don't expect us to dismiss something like this. The Qur'an for us is our pride as is Islam for us. Your post would make sense had it been on a forum that had nothing to do with Islam.
We condemn anything that's against Islam, including killing innocent people. Just cause you don't hear it or see it doesnt mean we don't!

Back to topic shall we? Don't be trolls ya'll....
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jzcasejz
05-22-2008, 01:41 AM
Originally Posted by Air Jordan
Nor do I think introducing some context by drawing a valid comparison is really "off-topic". Otherwise, there isn't much to say, is there.
I just was surprised at how quick this "comparison" was made before any comments on the actual story were made. :rollseyes Previously I've seen posts which were more related to a certain topic getting deleted, but not this time I guess.

Originally Posted by Air Jordan
A more germane question might be why the original story was posted. What was the point?
Why don't you post your little puzzle in this section?

Don't be trolls ya'll....
Oops I should stop, before I turn into one of them!
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-22-2008, 01:42 AM
^^Lol, you know what I mean bro.
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Air Jordan
05-22-2008, 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
It is an Islamic forum after all. Don't expect us to dismiss something like this. The Qur'an for us is our pride as is Islam for us. Your post would make sense had it been on a forum that had nothing to do with Islam.
We condemn anything that's against Islam, including killing innocent people. Just cause you don't hear it or see it doesnt mean we don't!

Back to topic shall we? Don't be trolls ya'll....
Very well, what do expect the US Army to do? They clearly recognized the cultural and religious sensitivity of the issue and they took prompt action.

Don't just say get out of Iraq, either. :)

What concrete action do you want? Do you want concrete action or is it just the same old beat up on the Americans routine? At some point it begins to look like the Danish cartoon thing. After all, this was a single individual acting out of authority. Regardless of how that soldier feels about Islam it was a foolish thing to do as it inflames tensions. Quite likely he had received specific training on things not to do and he is going to be in BIG trouble. Now what?
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barney
05-22-2008, 01:57 AM
Originally Posted by jzcasejz
I just was surprised at how quick this "comparison" was made before any comments on the actual story were made. :rollseyes Previously I've seen posts which were more related to a certain topic getting deleted, but not this time I guess.



Why don't you post your little puzzle in this section?



Oops I should stop, before I turn into one of them!
Yeah, i jumped in with the comparison, not because the forum had gone into a feeding frenzy, although that was alaways possible, but because I'd seen other reports on this, you tube commentrys, other forums.
The reaction was powerful enough to get a general making a personal apology. My point is that a similar reaction and solidarity against wanton slaughter would be nice as well, not that the shooting was trivial.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-22-2008, 01:57 AM
Originally Posted by Air Jordan
Very well, what do expect the US Army to do? They clearly recognized the cultural and religious sensitivity of the issue and they took prompt action.

Don't just say get out of Iraq, either. :)

What concrete action do you want? Do you want concrete action or is it just the same old beat up on the Americans routine? At some point it begins to look like the Danish cartoon thing. After all, this was a single individual acting out of authority. Regardless of how that soldier feels about Islam it was a foolish thing to do as it inflames tensions. Quite likely he had received specific training on things not to do and he is going to be in BIG trouble. Now what?


Hmm I don't see where I beat up anyone. I responded to your awkward statement as it needed a response. That's all.
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Air Jordan
05-22-2008, 02:01 AM
Originally Posted by jzcasejz
I just was surprised at how quick this "comparison" was made before any comments on the actual story were made. :rollseyes Previously I've seen posts which were more related to a certain topic getting deleted, but not this time I guess.
Everyone on this forum knows how Muslims would feel if the Quran were disrespected. It was simply a stupid thing to do. Do you expect non-Muslims to simply reiterate the obvious or might a more useful discussion arise if a non-Muslim perspective were heard.




Why don't you post your little puzzle in this section?
Thanks for that. Perhaps you could tone down the condescension a bit.




Oops I should stop, before I turn into one of them!
Missed it by that much.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-22-2008, 02:03 AM
Ehh...speak for yourself yea? Everyone does that on here....might be best if we all looked at ourselves....

Ok now im goin off topic. No moree!

Peace
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Air Jordan
05-22-2008, 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
Hmm I don't see where I beat up anyone. I responded to your awkward statement as it needed a response. That's all.
No, you didn't beat up anyone, but refering to other posters as 'trolls' might be seen as offensive. Please be sure to step in again whenver I seem a bit ungainly.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-22-2008, 02:06 AM
Yea trolls cause yall are dragging this thread off topic and basically think it's ok to attack. Pshh, dream on. I'm pretty sure you were talknig about the article, not yourselves. Whatever I guess? Making me go off topic too now >.< Can I go now? Thanks.

Peace
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Air Jordan
05-22-2008, 02:10 AM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
Yea trolls cause yall are dragging this thread off topic and basically think it's ok to attack. Pshh, dream on. I'm pretty sure you were talknig about the article, not yourselves. Whatever I guess? Making me go off topic too now >.< Can I go now? Thanks.

Peace
No, I will you to go further off topic....oh OK, that's not nice....you can go.


Have a nice day.
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Intisar
05-22-2008, 02:13 AM
:sl: This thread is now officially closed.

:threadclo
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