The Map Of UNITED STATES OF ISLAM!!!

[Dr.Trax]

:sl:
I found this on internet and want to share with you!
A message to the world:

:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

:w:

[Huma*]

:salamext:

great!! Thanks for sharing..

[Souljette]

Nicee

[Güven]

INSHALLAH after 100 years :)

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[Dr.Trax]

:salamext:

great!! Thanks for sharing..

No problem!:)

[Dr.Trax]

INSHALLAH after 100 years :)

AMIN......AMIN.........AMIN:thumbs_up

[جوري]

let's hope it happens over the next decade or so.. don't want to wait a hundred years for victory.. the time is NOW insha'Allah
:w:

[barney]

And then shahira law across the Globe.

Then all will be peace for ever!









































:rollseyes

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

If only you knew!

[aadil77]

I hope the part where it says 'fight against enemy of islam' is reffering to the actual enemies of islam

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Umm, what else would it refer to brother?

[barney]

How is the nation of finland an enemy of islam.
Is the whole world an enemy of Islam?

This is simply one of Dr Trax's islamosupremist, Islamofacist posts, and people are accepting it as that the whole world will peacefully see the light of Islam.

"Dr" Trax is talking about coercian and death. Before you cheer, identify his motives.

[aadil77]

Umm, what else would it refer to brother?

any one who isn't muslim, civilians etc

[barney]

Put on top of His earlier Jihad recruitment post with Osama bin laden's call to murder for allah, now a map of killing, including using nuclear weapons.

Simply enlarge the map in my pictures and read the text. Biggest army/ most nukes...gloating facism.

Is this Really the sort of message Load Islam wants to spread?

[جوري]

calm down there barn.. after Islam becomes global insha'Allah.. I am pretty sure you can still make moonshine in your tub and download 'pix' in your den behind your wife's back..

cheers

[Fishman]

:sl:
Some thoughts:
1. Although Civ-related fantasies may suggest otherwise, world conquest is not necessarily cool.
2. What does that black line around the states (that includes India and east Africa, non-Muslim countries) represent? A aphere of influence?
3. How do you suggest taking over west China and Tatarstan will be accomplished?
4. The idea of uniting the Muslim countries is probably a good one, as it will stop the the chaos and disunity (by definition). However, the 'most nukes' statement is a bit worrying, and as Barney states also a bit fascist.
5. I don't think this newly-created federation should go on a world-domination rampage, as what is possibly implied by the 'in 100 years' map. World conquest is not really a very good long-term goal in a 21st century political stage.

calm down there barn.. after Islam becomes global insha'Allah.. I am pretty sure you can still make moonshine in your tub and download nudie pix in your den behind your wife's back..

cheers

That wasn't very nice...
:w:

[------]

And then shahira law across the Globe.

Then all will be peace for ever!

Shahira?! SHARI'AH. :-\

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

That wasn't very nice...
:w:

Nor what he said was nice. No one wins...

:sl:

[------]

:salamext:

Calm down inshaaAllaah, and discuss peacefully :)

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

InshaAllah.

any one who isn't muslim, civilians etc

Why would he mean civilians bro? Assumptions aren't nice...

[جوري]

Nor what he said was nice. No one wins...

:sl:

Yup.. I thought my reply was merited..

:w:

[barney]

calm down there barn.. after Islam becomes global insha'Allah.. I am pretty sure you can still make moonshine in your tub and download nudie pix in your den behind your wife's back..

cheers

Interestingly, the facist world dominator cartographers announce Islam will have the biggest army in their world domination. Who are they going to fight? Squirrels? For surely squirrels have sinned manifestly.

Faster the Mods slam this thread, then the better for sending a message to such perverters of your faith.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

First of all, everyone is getting on each others cases. Before you accuse someone else, please look at what you yourself are saying...lets play nice now kids.

:sl:

[------]

:salamext:

Reminder: Discuss PEACEFULLY. Please :D

[جوري]

Interestingly, the facist world dominator cartographers announce Islam will have the biggest army in their world domination. Who are they going to fight? Squirrels? For surely squirrels have sinned manifestly.

Faster the Mods slam this thread, then the better for sending a message to such perverters of your faith.

one tends to wonder, why the globalization of Islam (insha'Allah) seems to arouse fear oriented to a supposed grievance that exists only in your brain, but never ire of the same caliber over the current globalization of the world by the united satan? why don't you chill a little.. stop driving every post to closure with your paranoia?

[barney]

Wont be closed due to my paranoia. I might get paranoid about stepping on cracks of the pavement, but theres no logic to that.
Theres hard and fast evidence that Trax, You and many many others want a war,(as you have said in previous threads). Goal? World Conquest in the traditions of such luminarys as Kahn, Boneparte, Hitler.

Why does it arouse fear. Well because "No compulsion in religion" dosnt sit well with the Eskimos of the Artic living under armed and nuclear threat.
Trax has stated his agenda in many many threads.
If you beleive that he is talking about a lovely peaceful world that suddenly wakes up to Islams wonders, and not about some crazed vision of the Whitehouse being topped with a cresent moon, then you will beleive in Flying horses.

Ummm....

[------]

:salamext:

Which part of 'Reminder: Discuss PEACEFULLY. Please' do you people not understand? :-\

[barney]

Sure. Peacefuls the watchword

Sky and Trax can announce here and now that they wish to see a perfectly peaceful coming of islamic unity across the globe.
Then Trax can explain what the Biggest army and Nukes in his post are about?

[جوري]

we have no war agenda.. in case you hadn't noticed, war has already been launched against Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya, Libya, Iran, Sudan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq etc. under guise of 'stopping terrorism'... but it is clear it is to establish American-Zionist agenda.. I know your type wants a hibernating umma..

unfortunately for you yet again, and perhaps it is the moonshine? you tend to confuse western history for Islamic history.. we weren't the ones rotting in the mire of the dark ages..

The time for Enlightenment, peace and justice is upon us.. so deal with it

cheers

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

What is it with people assuming false notions? I hope a mod closes this thread cause some people like derailing threads...

:sl:

[barney]

Jazzy, the thread is Dr Trax calling for islamic domination, within 100 years with nuclear weapons.
If I am supposed to sit here and see everyone cheer this, then I'm sacking my account and going back to Jihadunspun.com for some moderacy of thought.

[Dr.Trax]

Wont be closed due to my paranoia. I might get paranoid about stepping on cracks of the pavement, but theres no logic to that.
Theres hard and fast evidence that Trax, You and many many others want a war,(as you have said in previous threads). Goal? World Conquest in the traditions of such luminarys as Kahn, Boneparte, Hitler.

Why does it arouse fear. Well because "No compulsion in religion" dosnt sit well with the Eskimos of the Artic living under armed and nuclear threat.
Trax has stated his agenda in many many threads.
If you beleive that he is talking about a lovely peaceful world that suddenly wakes up to Islams wonders, and not about some crazed vision of the Whitehouse being topped with a cresent moon, then you will beleive in Flying horses.

Ummm....

Now you crossed the borders,you fool....
Show me where did I said that I want and will Dominate The World by WAR?
You brainwashed.....
Don't accuse me about this, because I am always against your useless posts!
You seems to be uneducated......
I want the World to be dominated by Islam....but with PEACE....NOT WAR!
I am for War only if someone attacks or is oppressed or occupied the Muslim Nation!
Then I am for JIHAD!!!

Now I see who is the Biggest RACIST on the Forum...


AND THE THREAD SHOULDN'T BE CLOSED.......I WANT TO FINISH THIS WITH THIS FOOL!!

[جوري]

You know if he packs his bags and goes to the other side this might not all have been in vain after all...
mwhahahahahhahaa
hehehehehe

:w:

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Jazzy, the thread is Dr Trax calling for islamic domination, within 100 years with nuclear weapons.
If I am supposed to sit here and see everyone cheer this, then I'm sacking my account and going back to Jihadunspun.com for some moderacy of thought.

Your wrong on that Barney. Nowhere did he state that. Your only making assumptions. Your not there to read his mind, you dont live in his brain. Maybe it would have been smart of you to ask what exactly he meant by his post.


Peace

[Al-Zaara]

Both barney and Fishman raised some valid points.

And does the map say win the territories with nuclear weapons? If yes, screw the map. Oh and why capital Saudi? imsad No thanks.

[barney]

Now you crossed the borders,you fool....
Show me where did I said that I want and will Dominate The World by WAR?
You brainwashed.....
Don't accuse me about this, because I am always against your useless posts!
You seems to be uneducated......
I want the World to be dominated by Islam....but with PEACE....NOT WAR!
I am for War only if someone attacks or is oppressed or occupied the Muslim Nation!
Then I am for JIHAD!!!

Hi Trax.

Can you explain why you posted a map containing references to "World biggest army"
"Worlds most nukes"
And Islam taking over the world in 100 years.

Or did you not see that bit?

[barney]

You know if he packs his bags and goes to the other side this might not all have been in vain after all...
mwhahahahahhahaa
hehehehehe

:w:

:)
Finally got you to do the evil laugh!
I knew it was waiting to come out!:D

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Both barney and Fishman raised some valid points.

And does the map say win the territories with nuclear weapons? If yes, screw the map. Oh and why capital Saudi? imsad No thanks.

Sure whatever. But making assumptions is a sad thing to do. And I guess no one noticed his first post on here.
If thats supposed to be a nice comment, then I must be so cruel.

:sl:

[جوري]

Your wrong on that Barney. Nowhere did he state that. Your only making assumptions. Your not there to read his mind, you dont live in his brain. Maybe it would have been smart of you to ask what exactly he meant by his post.


Peace

barney is a connoisseur on everything Islamic from jurisprudence to governing a state to laws of inheritance to interpretation of exegesis to mind reading.. and he learned it all in his local community college.. and has now come to lead us from our cesspool into European dark age type enlightenment.. which is apparently exactly what we all need.

:w:

[------]

:threadclo

No one post :-\ The PEACE has GONE from this thread

[جوري]

:)
Finally got you to do the evil laugh!
I knew it was waiting to come out!:D

according to a study I took today I am only 18% evil.. but I have a feeling I am a bit more than that :smile:

cheers

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

barney is a connoisseur on everything Islamic from jurisprudence to governing a state to laws of inheritance to interpretation of exegesis to mind reading.. and he learned it all in his local community college.. and has now come to lead us from our cesspool into European dark age type enlightenment.. which is apparently exactly what we all need.

:w:

I understood what he meant, but I hate when people make false accusations as if they know what someone is thinking behind a computer screen! That's all I'm even saying. Next time, one should ask the person for the reason of why he posted this, instead of making rude comments.

I'm done now.

:sl:

[Dr.Trax]

Both barney and Fishman raised some valid points.

What valid points....please explain!
Thanks....

And does the map say win the territories with nuclear weapons? If yes, screw the map.

NO!NO!NO!
You can see by yourself....

[jzcasejz]

Can you explain why you posted a map containing references to "World biggest army"
"Worlds most nukes"

I thought we already established it's for squirrels?

then I'm sacking my account and going back to Jihadunspun.com for some moderacy of thought.

That's a rather immature 'threat'.

[Al-Zaara]

Agreed. But making assumptions is a sad thing to do.

His assumptions were kinda understandable. He ain't the only one who got disturbed by that Osama-thread, I was too. But yes, in the big picture, assumptions ain't nice, no. So stop it barney.

And I guess no one noticed his first post on here.
If thats supposed to be a nice comment, then I must be so cruel.

:sl:

He does have the right to think the Shariah law is a lot of.. nonsense. He ain't Muslim, and aren't we allowed to have opinions suddenly? Yes, he rolled his eyes but there have been those who've given worse feedback.

barney is a connoisseur on everything Islamic from jurisprudence to governing a state to laws of inheritance to interpretation of exegesis to mind reading.. and he learned it all in his local community college.. and has now come to lead us from our cesspool into European dark age type enlightenment.. which is apparently exactly what we all need.

:w:

Very nice, thank you, now the end.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

So why is it bad if we want to happy sis, about Islam being successful? That's a bit messed up. If he's gonna show his hate for that I'm gunna hate his comment. Cant we have opinions...?

Ok the end.

[Al-Zaara]

What valid points....please explain!
Thanks....

Just read Fishman's post. I cannot add anything more to it.
And about barney, in one of his post he spoke about nation of Finland, and I agree with him.

So why is it bad if we want to happy sis, about Islam being successful? That's a bit messed up.

Did I say we cannot?

If he's gonna show his hate for that I'm gunna hate his comment.

Hate is such a strong word. Dislike more or less. We show it to the other religions aswell.. And please, if that first post of his disturbed you so much, I hope you'll never meet those real Islam-haters and intolerant individuals.

Cant we have opinions...?

Of course we can.

[aadil77]

Jazzy, the thread is Dr Trax calling for islamic domination, within 100 years with nuclear weapons.
If I am supposed to sit here and see everyone cheer this, then I'm sacking my account and going back to Jihadunspun.com for some moderacy of thought.

where does it say using nuclear weapons

oh yeah 'atomic and superpower counrty'

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

You said he can have his opinions but ur also kinda saying i cant dislike his post. Thats unfair. I have met a lot of punks.

You know what I meant sis, didnt literally mean hate. I got frustrated there cause his posts are full of hate and meanwhile he saying stuff that no one here even said. So should i jump up for joy over it? Im leaving now, getting ticked off, cause unfortunately i guess Barney is the innocent one in here, he's all correct...not.

[Al-Zaara]

where does it say using nuclear weapons

When I just zoomed real badly and my eyes really hurt, I could read:

RESULT

* Atomic & Super Power Country

[Al-Zaara]

You said he can have his opinions but ur also kinda saying i cant dislike his post.

Well then why are you allowed to request him to be more nice in his opinions and you not? It's a both-way thing, I'm not saying just one person is at fault. You can dislike his post, and he can dislike yours, but in the end it's up to how you show the dislike and that's what I'd like to see change in, everywhere.
We don't need to jump at every lame anti-Islam comment or make a bull out of a fly.

So should i jump up for joy over it? Im leaving now, getting ticked off, cause unfortunately i guess Barney is the innocent one in here, he's all correct...not.

Don't be ridicilous sister. Wasn't it just like 10 against one barney and suddenly just 'cause I voiced a slight other opinion you feel barney is potrayed as the "innocent" one? Just take it cool, this ain't a big deal.

Thats unfair. I have met a lot of punks.

That's sad, me too.

[barney]

This thread got closed for a bit diddnt it? Back open I see.

Basically anyway, Luxomberg will submit to the world army of islam, fair enough Ive said all I will on this.
Make your own mind up.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Im not being mean to anyone sis. Im not the one making false accusations as if I know what the guy behind the other screen is thinking. I dunno where u got that from. Also I didnt request anyone to be nice. All I said was it was wrong to make assumptions. I didnt get angry over yo utaking his side, cause I know what he meant, I even agreed with you sister. The poor brother didnt even say he wanted world domination, yet theres barney calling him islamofascist? Did anyone even bother to ask why he posted it in the first place? Do you even know what he was thinking. I looked at the picture thing as if Islam will overcome all. I didnt read the "fine print."
So i dont think im being rediculous sister. And I dont want to argue with you, I'm not liking it one bit.

Anyways still luv ya Fisabilillah...

:sl:

[Al-Zaara]

Aleykum selam,

I don't like it either, and I've said my own share already, take it or leave it. This "debate" won't benefit me the least. And if the brother wants, he can still explain why he posted it if anyone is confused.

I shall though point out that our posts indeed got strayed away a bit, as I found myself talking more on the general side of this thread and other similiar threads than actually talking of your posts, so inshaAllah you won't feel I'm attacking you.

Selam aleykum

p.s. and I love you too, fisabilillah..

[Dr.Trax]

Hi Trax.

Can you explain why you posted a map containing references to "World biggest army"
"Worlds most nukes"
And Islam taking over the world in 100 years.

Or did you not see that bit?

Ooooo,Thanks Barney for your lovely comment!

These are the results after the domination!
I posted it because I like it when I see it....
Also because most of the people will be on the right path....ISLAM
Because it is the only Law and Religion accepted by Allah!
Because there will be peace, happiness and justice in the world.
And so on.....
As for the WORLD BIGGEST ARMY,it is normal that when ISLAM dominates the world,the biggest army are the muslims.Because they are in majority !

For :"Worlds most nukes",where does it says like that?
It says :ATOMIC and SUPERPOWER COUNTRY!
So I see here that you want to make a PROPAGANDA here!
Like you are doing with EVOLUTION!
As far as I understand is that: It is just for the muslims to be safe against any attack to them!

ALSO:

Allah (swt) says in the Qur’aan:

“It is he (Allah) who has sent his Messenger (saw) with guidance and the religion of truth, in order for it to be dominant over all other religions, even though the Mushrikoon (disbelievers) hate it.” (EMQ at-Tawbah, 9: 33)

And the messenger Muhammad (saw) said:

“Verily Allah has shown me the eastern and western part of the earth, and I saw the authority of my Ummah (nation) dominate all that I saw.” (Saheeh Muslim, hadeeth #2889)

As Allah (swt) has said; this religion (i.e. Islam) is the only religion of truth; and the reason why he has sent us this deen is “in order for it to be dominant over all other religions.” Thus, Allah (swt) never sent us this deen as a mere spiritual belief. This deen has been sent to us by Almighty Allah (swt) in order for it to be implemented and for the whole of mankind to abide by it.

Why would the disbelievers and hypocrites hate for Islam to be implemented? Simply because they do not wish for their corruption, evil, crime, cheating, oppression, dishonesty, fraud, lies, tyranny, freedom, and deception to come to an end, and for justice (Islam) to prevail.


:w:

[aadil77]

ok so END RESULT:

• PEACEFUL WORLD DOMINATION BY ISLAM

• NO NUKES INVOLVED

Since we don't know the source of the article, we can't really assume what they meant by 'atomic power', hopefully nothing bad, probably just as defence, or to flex a bit of muscle

I don't think the brother would have noticed the 'fine print', since I could barely make out what it says,

:thumbs_up

[Dr.Trax]

ok so END RESULT:

• PEACEFUL WORLD DOMINATION BY ISLAM

• NO NUKES INVOLVED

I don't think the brother would have noticed the 'fine print', since I could barely make out what it says,

:thumbs_up

Right!
The only reason for domination:
The majority of its citizens will embrace Islam and implement the Sharee’ah on their own accord!

Since we don't know the source of the article, we can't really assume what they meant by 'atomic power', hopefully nothing bad, probably just as defence, or to flex a bit of muscle

Right!
I also didn't noticed the FINE PRINT,what is there written!
But if we will not have any weapon ,it will be very easy for the infidel to attack us!Like he is doing today to us!

Shame on us! We are betraying ourselves!

:w:

[ozdload]

So is it the aim of Islam to live in Peace and Harmony with the rest of the world or to keep fighting the enemies of Islam until the whole World is living under Islamic Religion, Doctrine and Law.

[Dr.Trax]

Aleykum selam,

I don't like it either, and I've said my own share already, take it or leave it. This "debate" won't benefit me the least. And if the brother wants, he can still explain why he posted it if anyone is confused.

!
If you are against this and the domination of the world by ISLAM ,you are also against Allah's commandments!

:w:

[aadil77]

So is it the aim of Islam to live in Peace and Harmony with the rest of the world or to keep fighting the enemies of Islam until the whole World is living under Islamic Religion, Doctrine and Law.

Have you even read anything on this thread!

There is no compulsion is Islam, world domination can be done through simple methods such as daw'ah - people spreading the message - not at gun point!

The spreading of knowledge is a big factor in whats causing Islam to grow

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

!
If you are against this and the domination of the world by ISLAM ,you are also against Allah's commandments!

:w:

Bro that was a reply to my comment. I said I dont like arguing with her and vice versa.

:sl:

[ozdload]

Have you even read anything on this thread!

There is no compulsion is Islam, world domination can be done through simple methods such as daw'ah - people spreading the message - not at gun point!

The spreading of knowledge is a big factor in whats causing Islam to grow

Hey man even the kiddies cartoons agree that WORLD DOMINATION can only be achieved by force .

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Umm no, thats what u get fed in places like school.

[aadil77]

Hey man even the kiddies cartoons agree that WORLD DOMINATION can only be achieved by force .

Yh well even if it was done by force, the people forced to convert wouldn't be counted as muslims, so there'd be no point to it

[Dr.Trax]

When I just zoomed real badly and my eyes really hurt, I could read:

RESULT

* Atomic & Super Power Country

Sister I think you can't understand it!
Show me where says that:for domination will be the using of nuclear weapons!
It says:Atomic & Super Power Country
Read it carefully.....please!

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Half of the countries are nuclear, first of all. Go talk to them about nuclear world domination before yall start spewing. Argh.

[Dr.Trax]

Half of the countries are nuclear, first of all. Go talk to them about nuclear world domination before yall start spewing. Argh.

Is this referring to me sister?
Wasalam....

[Güven]

ENOUGH already !!! this is goin nowhere, First of all we muslims must be united as one and then think about the world domination with Peace and Justice Inshallah

So just Chill Out and play some ''Three word story'' with me :D (or not :()

[czgibson]

Greetings,



Am I the only one who finds the map totally confused and unclear?



"Please more print and distribute and get blessing"!



Er...OK then! :D



Peace

[Dr.Trax]

ENOUGH already !!! this is goin nowhere, First of all we muslims must be united as one and then think about the world domination with Peace and Justice Inshallah

So just Chill Out and play some ''Three word story'' with me :D (or not :()

This is the problem Brother with us!
Again: SHAME ON US!!!:skeleton::raging:

[Güven]

^^lol Sister ????

[Dr.Trax]

^^lol Sister ????

Sorry Brother!Please forgive me....!:-[:exhausted

[Güven]

^It doesnt matter Bro :D lol

[Dr.Trax]

Bro that was a reply to my comment. I said I dont like arguing with her and vice versa.

:sl:

I know.I just wanted to ask her about her saying:

I don't like it either, and I've said my own share already, take it or leave it.

Sorry if it is wrong!:)

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Is this referring to me sister?
Wasalam....

lol no no bro...never u InshaAllah. I'd never wana fight with anyone in our Ummah. It gets me upset.....

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

InshaAllah. It's already over. No hard feelings between me and the sister or anyone else :) Ok im done here lol.

:sl:

[Dr.Trax]

lol no no bro...never u InshaAllah. I'd never wana fight with anyone in our Ummah. It gets me upset.....

Mashallah Sister!
Thanks for your reply!:)

I am too over!
:w:

[Whatsthepoint]

The only reason for domination:
The majority of its citizens will embrace Islam and implement the Sharee’ah on their own accord!

Do you expect this to happen in less than 100 year?

[transition?]

It's been said that God Promises Victory for the Muslims in the end. No one knows when that will happen. Or if that will happen in our time. But we should be happy for the future,even if it does not occur when we are living. But remember Allah (swt) expects Muslims to put in effort now and even then. Mehdi will not just fix our problems. Life is a test for Muslims because we utter the Shahadah and we will be tested to see if we utter with truth or lies. So Victory will not come with the world full of weak Muslims or Muslims simply by name. Thus, we should strengthen our iman (faith): pray, fast, give charity, help others, practice kindness and gentleness, increase our knowledge and stick to the straight path. Victory comes from the quality of iman in Muslims, not just Muslims by name around the world.

May Allah SWT Guide Us.


Peace
:D

[ozdload]

ENOUGH already !!! this is goin nowhere, First of all we muslims must be united as one and then think about the world domination with Peace and Justice Inshallah

So just Chill Out and play some ''Three word story'' with me :D (or not :()

Have you guys ever wondered what it would be like for normal people to be suddenly brought under the umbrella of your so called World Domination . People who have for centuries practiced their own social mores are going to become criminals subject to the rigors of religious courts and other secret police of the type that watch over middle eastern countries as we speak. Women could not drive motor cars or be seen in public without tight restriction, images of Buddha would have to be machine gunned to death, people, supping alcohol would be beheaded, homosexuals could be beheaded, thieves would have their hands cut off, young women who have committed adultery ( in the eyes of some one else ) can be stoned to death,

You certainly give us something to aspire to...

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^Haha, he mixes culture with with religion. Has no idea what he's saying. Pfft. Way to go man...

[Thought]

ameen ameen

[Al-Zaara]

!
If you are against this and the domination of the world by ISLAM ,you are also against Allah's commandments!

:w:

Don't be ridicilous. That was posted in answer to sister Jazzy and not to anything else, and was not about being for or against Islamic world domination, gosh.

edit: Ah, so you got it cleared. Elhamdulillah.

[Dr.Trax]

Don't be ridicilous. That was posted in answer to sister Jazzy and not to anything else, and was not about being for or against Islamic world domination, gosh.

edit: Ah, so you got it cleared. Elhamdulillah.

I apologize if you don't think so!
But as I got from all your posts ,I thought that maybe you are against it!
Again sorry......don't get angry so quickly!

Just read Fishman's post. I cannot add anything more to it.

Don't you know that Allah is capable for everythng???
He is the BEST of PLANNER!

And about barney, in one of his post he spoke about nation of Finland, and I agree with him.

What do you agree with him?
That the MAP says:Finland is the enemy of ISLAM???
Can you find it on the MAP that states like this?!:?
Maybe you haven't even seen the MAP!
How easy he can trick you!

And if the brother wants, he can still explain why he posted it if anyone is confused.

No muslim is confused for this!Everyone gets, why I have posted this,if you are trully a Muslim...!

:w:

[cute123]

Have you guys ever wondered what it would be like for normal people to be suddenly brought under the umbrella of your so called World Domination . People who have for centuries practiced their own social mores are going to become criminals subject to the rigors of religious courts and other secret police of the type that watch over middle eastern countries as we speak. Women could not drive motor cars or be seen in public without tight restriction, images of Buddha would have to be machine gunned to death, people, supping alcohol would be beheaded, homosexuals could be beheaded, thieves would have their hands cut off, young women who have committed adultery ( in the eyes of some one else ) can be stoned to death,

You certainly give us something to aspire to...

Its plain and basic , u find all these rules difficult to be followed but are ready to live in an unsocial unethical society , naming it freedom. its but if u understand.

[Fishman]

:sl:
Some more thoughts:
1. Acording to Islamic prophecy, Islam will rule the world, and almost everybody will convert. Not because of force and weapons(although of course there will be wars), but because in the end times so many miracles will happen that the only people who reject it would be complete morons, what with the Dajjal, Isa (as) descending from the sky, barbarian tribes storming out from a 'gate' (I'm not really sure where it is, or even what it is), armies attacking the Muslims sinking under the ground etc. Given that kind of evidence, its hard to believe that anybody would reject Islam.

2. True, the Rashidun Caliphs did conquer a huge portion of the world (an area about the size of the Roman Empire in just thirty years). However, this was in the days of medieval war, which involved sharp metal sticks, wooden arrows and timber catapults that threw rocks. You could avoid causing unecessary suffering and oppression relatively easily. Only a few thousand people died in all the wars of the Prophet (peace be upon him), and those were mainly soldiers who had chosen to go to war themselves.
Today, however, is a world of air strikes, carpet bombing, naval guns and nuclear missiles. These can all kill countless thousands of civilians (women, kids and elderly folk included) even if they are targeted at millitary positions. In in the Iraq war, which is a rather minor war compared to something like WWII, tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands have died, mainy civilians. Wars of conquest cannot be accomplished without causing mass death and destruction any more.

World politics is also different today. In the age of the Arab Conquests, most of the world's countries were expansionistic empires, who would have done the same to the Muslims given the chance. Given that Rome and Persia both thought of conquest as grand and glorious, how could they critcise the Arabs for doing to them what they did to others to themselves?
In this day and age though, most countries want peace, not war, and don't really do anything to oppress Islam. Isn't there a verse which says to stop fighting if the enemy inclines to peace? Didn't the Prophet (peace be upon him) sign a peace treaty with his enemies?


3. The idea of a USI would be a good one though. If the Muslim countries were united in a single federation, there would be a number of advantages:

• No more inter-Islamic wars.
• Other countries would not be as able to impose their will on the Muslim world, there would be no more propping up of dictators or despots for instance.
• Muslims could work together against terrorism and ignorance rather than being divided into hundreds of different organisations with conflicting aims.
• A solution to the Israel-Palestine problem, provided that the USI wanted peace too. If Palestine, Gaza and Lebanon were part of a larger entity, then the Israelis would think twice before bombing them to bits. In return though, the USI could use its authority and power to bring non-governmental terror groups like Hamas and Hezbollah under control. Another solution to the confict would be to incorporate Israel into the USI, but make the Jewish areas a 'Jewish Autonomous Zone', where Jews have special rights and protection, plus the right to emigrate their from other countries were they are persecuted.
• The USI could work together with the UN and the international community to solve social and political problems.
• the USI could use its millitary and political strength to help people who are being oppressed or ethnically-cleansed, such as Darfuris, the Burmese or the Zimbabweans.
• The USI would have more diverse natural resources, to be used to build the economy in a more sustainable way that just selling off oil to the highest bidder.

:w:

[Keltoi]

Nothing can unite people more than a common enemy.

It is fantasy to believe that the world will convert to Islam on its own accord. I say that as a Christian, yes, because I don't believe in Islamic prophecy, but also because Western society is a distinct entity that outdates Islam by many centuries. I mention that to point out what unites the Western world when it is attacked by a common enemy. Threats of an Islamic conquest aren't new.

Of course this all hinges on some united Islamic federation with intent to expand and conquer, which seems about as likely as Martian motherships attacking L.A. on Independence Day.

If the notion is some peaceful worldwide mass conversion on the basis of undeniable miracles...well, we'll see.

[aadil77]

:sl:
Some more thoughts:
1. Acording to Islamic prophecy, Islam will rule the world, and almost everybody will convert. Not because of force and weapons(although of course there will be wars), but because in the end times so many miracles will happen that the only people who reject it would be complete morons, what with the Dajjal, Isa (as) descending from the sky, barbarian tribes storming out from a 'gate' (I'm not really sure where it is, or even what it is), armies attacking the Muslims sinking under the ground etc. Given that kind of evidence, its hard to believe that anybody would reject Islam.

:w:

The barbarian tribes you're reffering to would be Yajuj and Majuj (Gog and Magog), they will break free from Dhul Qurnain's iron wall between two mountains and will cause havoc :)

[Karina]

Surely ....a world of diversity is far more beautiful than a world of conformity?? Surely??

Our earth is so incredible because of the different religions, cultures, ways of life!

Despite the problems we have to deal with, I can't comprehend why anyone would want to rid the world of so much wonderous complexity and variation?

Does anyone agree with me?

:cry:


.

[glo]

Surely ....a world of diversity is far more beautiful than a world of conformity?? Surely??

Our earth is so incredible because of the different religions, cultures, ways of life!

Despite the problems we have to deal with, I can't comprehend why anyone would want to rid the world of so much wonderous complexity and variation?

Does anyone agree with me?

:cry:


.

Yes, I agree, Karina.

People are so diverse because God intended them to be so.

He also gave us the freedom to chose their way of life. If God gave us that freedom, I don't understand why humans (especially those who believe in that very God-given free will) should try to take it away from each other ... :cry:

Your post is a shining light in this thread, Karina. :)

[Fishman]

The barbarian tribes you're reffering to would be Yajuj and Majuj (Gog and Magog), they will break free from Dhul Qurnain's iron wall between two mountains and will cause havoc :)

:sl:
I know who they are, and the story about the mountain gate. However, given that we have looked all over the world with satellites and haven't seen the place where they live, I think there must be something more to it. Maybe they are 'hidden' in some way?
:w:

[Karina]

Yes, I agree, Karina.

People are so diverse because God intended them to be so.

He also gave us the freedom to chose their way of life. If God gave us that freedom, I don't understand why humans (especially those who believe in that very God-given free will) should try to take it away from each other ...

Your post is a shining light in this thread, Karina.

Thank you Glo!

Everyone must agree to some extent how each religion enriches our world in terms of their traditions, dress, rituals, colours, art, buildings, architecture etc , everyone must surely have marvelled at some these things?

Without such variation we would lose all of this. And that is very sad. :cry:




.

[جوري]

Who said under an Islamic state, other religions would be wiped out? There is no compulsion in religion. People convert to Islam in record numbers volitionally.. and in a time when the evangelists and Islamophobes are laying it on thick!

People just simply reflect and realize there is someting much more profound than the man/God with mother and a confused spirit, Buddha butter statues/ chosen people with Golden calfs/ death towers with deceased on stilts and six armed Gods in funny colors/ and blessings in the form of cow micturate!

That is really what it comes down to.. if that can be called wishful thinking.. then perhaps it is best to remove your head out of the sand because it is happening in your own backyard at record numbers!

cheers

[aadil77]

:sl:
I know who they are, and the story about the mountain gate. However, given that we have looked all over the world with satellites and haven't seen the place where they live, I think there must be something more to it. Maybe they are 'hidden' in some way?
:w:

yh I used to think about this aswell, quite interesting
but these are of the unseen, invisible to the eye and well hidden from us humans

[Amadeus85]

Who said under an Islamic state, other religions would be wiped out? There is no compulsion in religion. People convert to Islam in record numbers volitionally.. and in a time when the evangelists and Islamophobes are laying it on thick!

People just simply reflect and realize there is someting much more profound than the man/God with mother and a confused spirit, Buddha butter statues/ chosen people with Golden calfs/ death towers with deceased on stilts and six armed Gods in funny colors/ and blessings in the form of cow micturate!

That is really what it comes down to.. if that can be called wishful thinking.. then perhaps it is best to remove your head out of the sand because it is happening in your own backyard at record numbers!

cheers

Yes there are people in West who convert to islam, others convert to judaism or become agnostics others who become christians again, especially that we talk about hundreds of millions of people living in the West. But we talk about few thousands who choose alternative "way of life". And still you seem to forget about the silent majority who wants to keep Europe european, America american and Australia asutralian, majority which is getting louder with every year.

[جوري]

They are indeed loud.. but that is as far as they can take their efforts..
all other 'conversions' are simply negligible in face of those who convert to Islam.. you may browse this forum to see various threads on record number of conversions especially last year in Germany..

cheers

[Karina]

Who said under an Islamic state, other religions would be wiped out? There is no compulsion in religion. People convert to Islam in record numbers volitionally.. and in a time when the evangelists and Islamophobes are laying it on thick!

People just simply reflect and realize there is someting much more profound than the man/God with mother and a confused spirit, Buddha butter statues/ chosen people with Golden calfs/ death towers with deceased on stilts and six armed Gods in funny colors/ and blessings in the form of cow micturate!

That is really what it comes down to.. if that can be called wishful thinking.. then perhaps it is best to remove your head out of the sand because it is happening in your own backyard at record numbers!

cheers

How lovely to hear from you.

For the record, I simply was following on from what Fishman said:

1. Acording to Islamic prophecy, Islam will rule the world, and almost everybody will convert.

.

[S1aveofA11ah]

Yes there are people in West who convert to islam, others convert to judaism or become agnostics others who become christians again, especially that we talk about hundreds of millions of people living in the West. But we talk about few thousands who choose alternative "way of life". And still you seem to forget about the silent majority who wants to keep Europe european, America american and Australia asutralian, majority which is getting louder with every year.

"...And still you seem to forget about the silent majority who wants to keep Europe european, America american and Australia asutralian, majority which is getting louder with every year."

whats that got to do with Islam spreading?. You can be a European/America/Aussie Muslim. There doesn't seem to be an arguement here unless you are referring to some kind of race hatred from e.g. whites only?.

[جوري]

How lovely to hear from you.

For the record, I simply was following on from what Fishman said:




.

According to that prophecy.. Jesus (PBUH will descend, and will create a schism not of religion vs. religion but good vs evil.. in other words people will let go of whatever delusions they believe in on account he is right there to guide them!

When Allah wills that is indeed what will happen.. The world will change in a very impressive manner... surely if you mind can conceive that the world has changed very drastically just in the last 500 years, that it will yet again in the centuries to come? and Yet again, so in the end people shall return to paganism and religion will be removed from the world so that even atheists and agnostics can have their glory!


cheers

[Fishman]

How lovely to hear from you.

For the record, I simply was following on from what Fishman said:




.

:sl:
I am not saying people will be forced to convert. People will willingly convert on account of obvious miracles that only a fool would deny. Its probably the same in Christianity, only with a Rapture to take the real believers up to Heaven so they won't suffer.

As for people's different cultures, did Islam wipe out the culture of the people who converted in the past? It changed them, yes, but they still maintained their old traditions and ways of life (excluding some that were against Islam). The Muslim world is not just a single block of arabised countries. The culture of Turkey is very different to the culture of Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, and the culture of African, Russian, Chinese and Indo-Malay Muslims is different from that. Maybe in the future there will be western Muslims who value the accomplishments of Newton, Rohl Dahl and Shakespeare just as much as Ibn Khaldun, Rumi or Avveroes? Some would say there all ready are...
:w:

[Amadeus85]

whats that got to do with Islam spreading?. You can be a European/America/Aussie Muslim. There doesn't seem to be an arguement here unless you are referring to some kind of race hatred from e.g. whites only?.

Chinese have right to keep China chinese, Mexicans have right to keep Mexico mexican, Pakistanis and Egyptians have right to keep their countries islamic. So why you think that we europeans must be worse. Let us struggle to keep Europe european.

[S1aveofA11ah]

Chinese have right to keep China chinese, Mexicans have right to keep Mexico mexican, Pakistanis and Egyptians have right to keep their countries islamic. So why you think that we europeans must be worse. Let us struggle to keep Europe european.

So does European mean white?.

[Amadeus85]

So does European mean white?.

It means european. I dont mean the colour of skin, but the baggage of culture and tradition.

[islamirama]

Chinese have right to keep China chinese, Mexicans have right to keep Mexico mexican, Pakistanis and Egyptians have right to keep their countries islamic. So why you think that we europeans must be worse. Let us struggle to keep Europe european.

Why don't you give mexico back to mexicans and get back to your original 13 colonies before your war criminal ancestors engaged in illegal wars to steal more land from mexicans and the natives not to mention mass genocide of an entire race.

[S1aveofA11ah]

Why don't you give mexico back to mexicans and get back to your original 13 colonies before your war criminal ancestors engaged in illegal wars to steal more land from mexicans and the natives not to mention mass genocide of an entire race.

Yeah - theres a good point for you Aaron85. Why don't you give the US over to the Red Indians who are there now?. They were the original inhabitants. What do you say to that?.

[Fishman]

It means european. I dont mean the colour of skin, but the baggage of culture and tradition.

:sl:
You can be both European and Muslim.
:w:

[Dr.Trax]

:sl:

40 Reasons to Establish Khilafah & Dangers in not establishing Khilafah

1. The most basic of our duties to Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala), is to establish His laws and make Him the Sovereign of the land [1]. Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) has given man the freedom to make whoever or whatever the Rabb. In the heavens, Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) has put loyal creatures, the Angels. Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) has made it the responsibility of the Muslims to make Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) the King of the earth as He is the King of the heavens. After the belief in Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala), the establishments of Allah’s (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) laws are the most important subject in the Qur’an.

2. Establishing Khilafah, is like a Masjid and its Imam--- it is the peak of “Establishing salah”, just as in wudu, having the proper direction, learning humbleness, having a clean dress, and learning the salah to memory--- all these things are great, but without the Masjid and a true Imam, these parts of the salah, and salah itself is really losing its essence. In fiqh we call this “Uslul Usl” or “the root of the root”, by which all other laws are applied and a civilization is made.

3. Khilafah is an obligation on us from the text (Qur’an and Sunnah) [2], Ijmah of the Sahabah, and the need of the time… working for Khilafah could said to be greatest obligation after our immediate personal responsibility.

4. The Khilafah is also to protect the laws of the Deen. The Khilafah would put into place institutions that make sure we abide by the will of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala).

5. One of the main foreign policies will be to bring people into the fold of Islam, and then give them a place where they can practice Islam. Da’wah can not be carried out most effectively until the establishment of an Islamic State.

6. The Khilafah will be a proof of Islam; its laws given by Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala), when implemented, will show to the world, and to the men of understanding, that humanity could not have produced such a perfect society, that is ideal and real at the same time. This will shahadah ‘alan naas (bear witness unto humanity) on the part of Muslims as whole to the Non-Muslims.

7. Khilafah is a sign of strength in our collective Iman. The Khilafah is a promise of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) for only the true believers [3]). This is the only way we will know we have true faith.

8. Khilafah is the right of every Muslim and Muslimah… it is their right to have the Protection of the Islamic Army.

9. One of the ways to create “Iman” is to be in a place or with people that have true & strong faith. The Khilafah will establish salat and spread zakat in proper priorities, in the most effective way… and will create a culture that fosters Iman.

10. The Khilafah will ensure an educational system whereby we would produce true slaves of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala), and teach people in accordance to the needs of the Ummah.

11. The Khilafah will be a place where the leaders will be from the people, and they will not be stooges to non-Islamic elements… they will be pious people chosen by the Muslims. These leaders will be the servants of the people; they will not be professional politicians, who take huge salaries. If Khilafah is not established, then power will go into wrong hands, which will not be deserved, and will misuse it. Khilafah and issue of power is an important subject. Just as some power mongers in the world have decided no one deserves to have nuclear weapons besides themselves.

12. Muslims will always be in an Identity crisis unless they work to establish Khilafah. Otherwise we will be at odds with our own history.

13. We know from the ahadith of the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) that this is the next great phase in Muslim and Islamic history [4].

14. The symbols of Mahdi, and the coming of ‘Isa (‘alahis salaam), are the path we should take, to be blessed to be among them, and we can ensure we will join them if the time comes.

15. This is the only way to break the shirk of nationalism that has plagued the entire Ummah. In the end result, people will feel the same patriot ness for the Islamic State what they feel for there national countries.

16. The zakat will bring about the same result that happened at the time of Umer bin Abdul Azeez [5].

17. The barakah (blessing) will be so much that the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) told us, the earth will open up its treasures to us. The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said, “To establish a single hadd (maximum punishment) is better than forty days of rain”--- referring to the worldly benefits of the Shari’ah.

18. Foreign cultures plaguing the Muslim mind could properly dealt with. We are losing many Muslim youth to other ways of life, because they can not see Islam as something practical.

19. Over a billion Muslims have no representation. After the Khilafah (is established), the Muslims will have a state which speaks to their needs, and not to the desires of others.

20. Without the Islamic State, Muslims will always be under another way of life, that contradicts their own, and thus Muslims will always be in a state of low self respect… establishment of a functional Islamic State will boost the confidence in Islam, the Muslims truly today doubt. They to even talk about an important subject like Khilafah is taboo…

21. If Islam is the solution to all problems, then they cannot manifest themselves properly without an Islamic State.

22. The world is starving for an economic system that is an alternative to the one we have at the moment….a system without riba, which kills and enslaves people, families, and nations. The system of Riba which we are currently in, enslaves people; we will give them an economic system so they can surrender to Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala).

23. The world is looking for an entity that speaks the truth, and is the voice of justice. The oppressed world is looking for such a voice, and many people with good sense who understand that there is something wrong with the way the current world runs. It is the responsibility of the Muslims to be that voice, for only they can be that voice.

24. The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) always mentioned the glory of Islam, by its power, its dominance, and would mention about the future of Islam by the way of “Khilafah Rashidah”, “Mahdi”… because these are symbols that represent the holistic view of Islam.

25. The issue of Muslim Unity, can not be addressed without Khilafah, Muslims will always be divided in something as long as there is no Khilafah.

26. The issue of non-Muslims in Muslim lands can not be dealt with properly and honestly until the establishment of the Islamic State.

27. Without Khilafah, the lives, honor and the wealth of Muslims will be taken.

28. To understand the importance of Khilafah in the eyes of Islam’s enemies, is that the one objective they worked to finish was the symbol of Islamic unity (Khilafah) we had, not salah, not any one part of Islam. --- The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said, “The Imam is the shield behind which the Ummah fights”… this is the only way Islam can protect itself. Bringing a billion people under one banner, means no one can disgrace us.

29. No civilization or culture can survive without a political backing. Islamic Civilization is going down the drain, while Pakistani, Egyptian, and Western ways of life are getting stronger… to resume the Islamic Civilization and culture we must establish Khilafah.

30. The Unity of the Muslims is also a fard… and its secret is the Khilafah… Asabeeyah (nationalism) is kufr… and it is a kabair (one of the biggest sins). By the British using the rule of “divide and conquer”, Muslims are killing one another in nationalistic fights. In the understanding of Prophet Haroon (‘alayhis salaam), the unity of the Ummah was more important than the issue of shirk even. If being nationalistic--- Pakistani, Palestinian, etc. is all kufr, then what else do we have but Khilafah?

31. The Muslims all over the world want unity, every conference, all khateebs at some point out the importance of this issue, but fail to mention Khilafah as its solution.

32. The only solution for Muslims is to properly use the resources that Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) has given to the Muslims and that is by establishing the Islamic State. Once we have Khilafah, all the physical resources (such as Oil, Weaponry) are used and directed in the correct manner, that which is most pleasing to Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) (acts which are justifiable and wouldn't make sense if condemned). The Muslim states today don't know how to use these valuable resources correctly. What also must be brought to the attention is that, in these Muslim lands, we already have those resources, however, Muslims must understand, that our resources are being exploited by others (foreigners, and corrupt rulers). So we should struggle hard to regain these resources and the only way to do that is to establish Khilafah.

33. It is the obligation of Muslims to remove corrupt Muslim leadership from the Muslim world.

34. Islam is not a religion, rather it is a world view, and it is more comprehensive than any other system. Islam has a political, economic, social, judicial aspects to it that must be established, otherwise what ever we have, is not Islam.

35. Every group, nation, culture, civilization works for its interests. How can we resume the interest of Islam at the broadest level without Khilafah?

36. Islam does not believe in clash of civilization, but rather clash of Haqq (Truth) and Batal (Falsehood), and in the eyes of batal, not letting Muslims regain the Khilafah is its triumph and victory.

37. The way to give birth to civilizations and ideologies is by giving sacrifice, just as our pious people before us. Only when Muslims are willing to give their sweat and blood will the help of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) come, and only then will the Khilafah come, and the Promises of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) will come true. To reject these promises of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) is kufr. The promise of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) includes the authority given to Muslims over land, fear will change to peace, and Islam will be established, shirk will be removed, and Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) will love this.

38. Muslims were great in dunya only when they were pious, and when the number of pious people went down, Muslims were disgraced. So, the two go hand in hand, if Muslims don’t have Khilafah that means we are disgraced, and if we do, we will be helped from the unseen, because of the pious among us.

39. The Khilafah will be an opportunity to show the opposite of “The Great American” experiment. Khilafah will show, how good political system means good families, which means good individuals. In the American experience they took morals out from the public domain, in hope the morality will come from bottom under. Instead of the good individuals having good families, and then building a good society, we find what happened was bad leaders, created bad families, which created bad individuals, and now they have a bad society which is morally decayed.

40. When the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) established Islam for us, how can it be when we meet him on the Day of Judgment and have not even struggled to regain what the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) spent his entire life to work for?



The most important lessons we learn are seven:

• Khilafah is one of the beautiful promises of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala), and it is the only way to make the Deen of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) supreme.
• Khilafah will be given to only those who are truly Allah’s (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala), and the Khilafah will produce people who are truly Allah’s (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala).
• The issue of the Unity of Ummah cannot be dealt with and solved without Khilafah. Muslim unity was the key issue dealt with by all great revivers and reformers of Islam.
• The issue of corrupt Muslim leaders and false ideologies that taking over the Muslim world can not be solved without Khilafah.
• Khilafah can be the only true representative of Muslim interests.
• Khilafah is vital to carrying the message of Islam to the global community.
• Khilafah is the proof of Allah’s (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) Deen being true, and the words of the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) being true, and those follow this path being true.

What to do to establish Khilafah?

• First one must understand the importance of Khilafah.
• Second, one must make the Ahkirah a priority in his life so he can devote himself/herself fully to this cause.
• Third, he must join a group of people who have the same mission in life as himself or herself. Then s/he must work them to educate himself/herself.
• Then s/he will convey this message to others

The Ummah is like a sick person, when it receives the injection of Iman and the message of Khilafah, it will be cured.

About Us:

• We are known by the name of the “Islamic Organization of North America”
• Our goal is to revitalize the Iman of the Ummah
• Our goal is to teach people the importance of Khilafah
• To create an organization that works to establish Islam as a complete Deen
• We invite and call on all Muslims to help and join us


References:
1. Surah Al Mai’dah, ayat 44, 45, 47 and 48:
44. And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are the Kafiroon (disbelievers, one who covers up the truth)!
45. And whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers)!
47. And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed (then) such (people) are the Fasiqun (the rebellious i.e. disobedient) to Allah!
48. And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad) the Book (this Qur'an) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you! To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allah willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allah; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ!
8:38 And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the Deen will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]!
2. 3:104 Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good (Islam), enjoining Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do) and forbidding Al-Munkar (polytheism and disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden). And it is they who are the successful!
3:110 You [true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunnah (legal ways, etc.)] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden), and you believe in Allah!
12:40 Verily the absolute right of legislating is for none but Allah!
18:26 And He made none share in his decision or rule!
4:60 Have you seen those who claim that they believe in that which has been sent down to you and that which has been sent down before you and they wish to go for judgment in their dispute to the Taghout (i.e. Un-Islamic Judges, Systems) while they have been ordered to reject them but Shaytaan wishes to lead them far astray!
33:36 It is unlawful for Believers, male or female, if Allah and His Messenger decree a command to have any choice but to abide with it and whosoever disobeys Allah or his Messenger went astray in plain misguidance!
8:73 And those who disbelieve are allies to one another, (and) if you (Muslims of the whole world collectively) do not do so (i.e. become allies, as one united block with one Khalifah - chief Muslim ruler for the whole Muslim world to make victorious Allah's Deen of Islam), there will be Fitnah (wars, battles, polytheism, etc.) and oppression on earth, and a great mischief and corruption (appearance of polytheism)!
3. 24:55 Allah has promised those among you who believe, and do righteous good deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession to (the present rulers) in the earth (Khalif), as He granted it to those before them, and that He will grant them the authority to practice their Deen (i.e., make it dominant), that which He has chosen for them (i.e. Islam). And He will surely give them in exchange a safe security after their fear (provided) they (believers) worship Me and do not associate anything (in worship) with Me. But whoever disbelieved after this, they are the Fasiqun (rebellious, disobedient to Allah)!
4. The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) is reported to have said: "The prophet-hood will last as long as Allah is willing, then He will lift it. Then, a rightly guided Khilafah will be according to the prophet’s way and will last as long as Allah is willing, then Allah will lift it. Then, there will be a hereditary power that will last as long as Allah is willing, then Allah will lift it. Then, there will be dictatorships that will last as long as Allah is willing, then Allah will lift it. Then, there will be a Khilafah according to the prophet’s way. The prophet, then fell silent." {Authentic Hadith reported by Imams Ahmad, Al-Bazar and At-Tabrani.}
5. One day, Umer bin Abdul Azeez felt charitable and went out of his way to give wealth to whoever needed it. He traveled a long distance and could not find a single poor individual due to the system of Zakat under the Islamic State.

:w:

[Fishman]

:sl:
Dr Trax, where did you get the above article from? H.Ts?
:w:

[Amadeus85]

:sl:
You can be both European and Muslim.
:w:

You are the example.

[Amadeus85]

Yeah - theres a good point for you Aaron85. Why don't you give the US over to the Red Indians who are there now?. They were the original inhabitants. What do you say to that?.

And I say- give the Red Indian's land to those whom they stole it and who were there hundreds years before them and whom they killed to steal their land. :raging:

[Keltoi]

I believe what Aaron is expressing is the fundamental conservative platform, whether European or American, which is "borders, language, culture".

* Just for the record, we prefer to be called Native Americans or simply our tribal affiliations. Not "Red Indians". :)

[Amadeus85]

I believe what Aaron is expressing is the fundamental conservative platform, whether European or American, which is "borders, language, culture".

* Just for the record, we prefer to be called Native Americans or simply our tribal affiliations. Not "Red Indians". :)

Let me say sorry then :statisfie

I didnt know that you are Native :D

You know maybe the "Borat" movie when Borat asked red necks where he can shoot to red indians? ;D

[Fishman]

You are the example.

:sl:
I actually had some examples but I deleted the link on the grounds that the site (but not the page itself) was sectarian. They were basically articles about various famous and important western converts from the 15th century to the 20th, such as Marmaduke Pickthall, who wrote a very popular English translation of the Qur'an.
:w:

[wth1257]

First of all, everyone is getting on each others cases. Before you accuse someone else, please look at what you yourself are saying...lets play nice now kids.

:sl:

You must understand that it is disturbing to see a great deal of people from a major world religion plotting global domination.

Personally I find the whole thread sickining, not intended to be offensive, that is how I feel. What about those who have no interest in living under Muslim law?

[wth1257]

Who said under an Islamic state, other religions would be wiped out? There is no compulsion in religion. People convert to Islam in record numbers volitionally.. and in a time when the evangelists and Islamophobes are laying it on thick!

Well with all due respect they get a lot of help from stuff like this map, as to your claim, there was technically no compulsion in religion in 1865 Mississippi however I really doubt you would feel to comftorable livein there.

People just simply reflect and realize there is someting much more profound than the man/God with mother and a confused spirit, Buddha butter statues/ chosen people with Golden calfs/ death towers with deceased on stilts and six armed Gods in funny colors/ and blessings in the form of cow micturate!

:?

That is really what it comes down to.. if that can be called wishful thinking.. then perhaps it is best to remove your head out of the sand because it is happening in your own backyard at record numbers!

cheers

yeah, for my part this little diddy of a thread has put an indeffinant halt to any desire I ever had to be a Muslim, I think I need to go now.

thanks and bye

[ozdload]

Can u guys tell me what becomes of secular ( for want of better nomenclature ) persons when all these things transpire

[جوري]

Well with all due respect they get a lot of help from stuff like this map, as to your claim, there was technically no compulsion in religion in 1865 Mississippi however I really doubt you would feel to comftorable livein there.

Why not? Have you seen me in person to know where I'd fit or not fit in? another thing is please don't remotely assimilate your racist history with Islamic history at least not until you've browsed some history books.. else you look as the dumb assess who brew the news every night!

yeah, for my part this little diddy of a thread has put an indeffinant halt to any desire I ever had to be a Muslim, I think I need to go now.

thanks and bye

lol.. and thank God for that.. religion and marriage aren't to be entered to lightly...

so long!
auf wiedersehen!
ciaoooooooooooooooooooooooo

[جوري]

Can u guys tell me what becomes of secular ( for want of better nomenclature ) persons when all these things transpire

They live as the Jewish maimondes lived under Islamic rule!

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

yeah, for my part this little diddy of a thread has put an indeffinant halt to any desire I ever had to be a Muslim, I think I need to go now.

thanks and bye

Sorry bro, but I dont appreciate someone associating imperfect Muslims such as ourselves, with Islam! Please don't do it. If u ever considered, do it cuz of Islam for Allah not cuz of us...

Peace

[wth1257]

I said I was leaving this thread, but I changed my mind

Why not?

You woulden't be able to vote, mary anyone outside your race, or in this case religion, you'd face preasure from the Ku Klux Klan, or lynched, you would enjoy, be fact of the situation little to no legal protection under the law.

Have you seen me in person to know where I'd fit or not fit in?

I don't need to see you, I assume your a Muslims, as your profile says, and anyone outside of certian protestant Christian sects woulden't have much fun.

another thing is please don't remotely assimilate your racist history with Islamic history at least not until you've browsed some history books..

Like Armenians under the Otoman Empire?

Religious minorities rarey fair well under religious law, there are exceptions, Jews did preaty well under Muslim Spain, but those governmenats are run by men, and are made up of imperfect people.

else you look as the dumb assess who brew the news every night!

:?

lol.. and thank God for that.. religion and marriage aren't to be entered to lightly...

I never would

[wth1257]

Sorry bro, but I dont appreciate someone associating imperfect Muslims such as ourselves, with Islam! Please don't do it. If u ever considered, do it cuz of Islam for Allah not cuz of us...

Peace

I thought the Ummah was an essential part of the religion theologically?

[wth1257]

They live as the Jewish maimondes lived under Islamic rule!

atheists are dhimmi now?

[جوري]

atheists are dhimmi now?

what is your question? I can't infer anything from your above fragment!

cheers

[جوري]

I said I was leaving this thread, but I changed my mind

Typical

You woulden't be able to vote, mary anyone outside your race, or in this case religion, you'd face preasure from the Ku Klux Klan, or lynched, you would enjoy, be fact of the situation little to no legal protection under the law.

Again, you don't know enough about me to know where I'd or wouldn't fit!

I don't need to see you, I assume your a Muslims, as your profile says, and anyone outside of certian protestant Christian sects woulden't have much fun.

So?

Like Armenians under the Otoman Empire?

Maybe you should read about that from the other end?.. but No, not like the ottomans, like the Rashidun, Umayyads, Abbasids, Fatimids, the Ommayads.. or do you conveniently want to sweep the age of reason of the Muslim empires for the age of darkness of Europe?

Religious minorities rarey fair well under religious law, there are exceptions, Jews did preaty well under Muslim Spain, but those governmenats are run by men, and are made up of imperfect people.

That is your opinion. History isn't composed of opinions!


cheers

[wth1257]

Typical

:-[

Again, you don't know enough about me to know where I'd or wouldn't fit!

Alright, life was tough for every non WASP in Mississippi during those times except you, the Knlan would take one look and say, "hazzah! We hate every non WASP in the world who comes to our beloved mississippi except you, we love you yay!"

Then candy would fall from the sky:X

So?

so you woulden't have fun in mississippi at the time:?

Maybe you should read about that from the other end?..

The end where Armenians and other religious minorities wern't second class citizins?

Where exactly would this end be?

but No, not like the ottomans, like the Rashidun, Umayyads, Abbasids, Fatimids, the Ommayads.. or do you conveniently want to sweep the age of reason of the Muslim empires for the age of darkness of Europe?

Sure, life for Jews, Christians, etc was much better under Muslim rule, generally, than under religious minorities faced under Christian rule.

Life for a black man in 1930's Alabama was also much better than life for a Jewish man in 1939 Poleland, however neither is ideal.

That is your opinion. History isn't composed of opinions!

What is my oppinion? Would yo like to point to a theocracy where religious minorities lived fantastic lives of total equality with the rulling religions people?

cheers

cheers to you to

[wth1257]

what is your question? I can't infer anything from your above fragment!

cheers

you said atheists/secular people would live as Jewish maimondes, I was asking if atheists were protected people under shariah law?

[جوري]

:-[

:)

Alright, life was tough for every non WASP in Mississippi during those times except you, the Knlan would take one look and say, "hazzah! We hate every non WASP in the world who comes to our beloved mississippi except you, we love you yay!"

Then candy would fall from the sky:X

and again I ask you, how would you know I don't come from a long line of non-practicing wasps for instance?!

so you woulden't have fun in mississippi at the time:?

we have strayed so far off course, I have no idea where you are going with this

The end where Armenians and other religious minorities wern't second class citizins?

The Turks have a different account for what actually took place! under either circumstance, I don't see how living in the so-called free world is any different, can you tell me Muslim girls wanting a modest dress for school are allowed their religious freedoms in a 'progessive' country such as France for instance? People are people, and many racist people make nations!

Where exactly would this end be?

End of what?

Sure, life for Jews, Christians, etc was much better under Muslim rule, generally, than under religious minorities faced under Christian rule.

Glad we have found common grounds!

Life for a black man in 1930's Alabama was also much better than life for a Jewish man in 1939 Poleland, however neither is ideal.

We won't know of ideal until the entire human race under-goes similar lobotomies.. however, there is close enough to the ideal.. even in a so-called democratic system (which isn't unlike an Islamic shura system) minus the secular laws, not every one is happy.. in fact I dare say, half the country here in the good old U S of A is vexed with the current admin and events!

What is my oppinion? Would yo like to point to a theocracy where religious minorities lived fantastic lives of total equality with the rulling religions people?

How about we do it this way.. point me to a democracy where religious minorities lived fantastic lives of equality with the ruling non-religious people!

cheers to you to

sayonara

[جوري]

you said atheists/secular people would live as Jewish maimondes, I was asking if atheists were protected people under shariah law?

Sure why wouldn't they? in fact the state we speak off that will be established under Jesus P will abolish jizyah.. I just have my doubts that there will be that many atheists left considering the evolution of events... unless they are cocooned for protection in an underground retreat and miss the whole shebang?

peace

[wth1257]

:)





Iand again I ask you, how would you know I don't come from a long line of non-practicing wasps for instance?!

:?

So did a woman I know before she became Catholic, however when her neighboor held his Klan rallies, they sure as hell had to lock the doors and windows and hide

Your background and history is irrelivent, your a Muslim would woulden't have had much fun I don't think, unless you managed to totally disguise your religion.

we have strayed so far off course, I have no idea where you are going with this

me neither:-[

:p

The Turks have a different account for what actually took place!

Your talking about the genocide, I'm talking about the centuries leading up to that where they were, by shariah law, second class citizens.

under either circumstance, I don't see how living in the so-called free world is any different, can you tell me Muslim girls wanting a modest dress for school are allowed their religious freedoms in a 'progessive' country such as France for instance?

I'm friend with a few Muslim girls, all wear head scarves, none have problems. France is wrong, so is Turkey. IMHO anyway

People are people, and many racist people make nations!

And legalized inferiority under the law only invites further abuse

Glad we have found common grounds!


We won't know of ideal until the entire human race under-goes similar lobotomies.. however, there is close enough to the ideal.. even in a so-called democratic system (which isn't unlike an Islamic shura system) minus the secular laws, not every one is happy.. in fact I dare say, half the country here in the good old U S of A is vexed with the current admin and events!

And they can move, or change the government. Under the global domination he is sdvocating there is no excape for us non-Muslims, if the Saudi people want Chariah law, then so long as their people can leave at will I don't care, that's their buisness, but when you want the entire planet under religious law, that is a nightmare with no excape.

I don't see how Shariah law would be simmilar, would you deney that laws contradicting Islam would not be allowed, that non-Muslims would have fewer rights etc?

How about we do it this way.. point me to a democracy where religious minorities lived fantastic lives of equality with the ruling non-religious people!

Catholics, Jews, Muslims, atheists, protestants, pagans, bhuddists, hindu's etc all live equeally under the law in my state:?

sayonara

What doe that mean?:)

[جوري]

:?

So did a woman I know before she became Catholic, however when her neighboor held his Klan rallies, they sure as hell had to lock the doors and windows and hide

Your background and history is irrelivent, your a Muslim would woulden't have had much fun I don't think, unless you managed to totally disguise your religion.

I am highly versatile indeed!

me neither:-[

:p

:D

Your talking about the genocide, I'm talking about the centuries leading up to that where they were, by shariah law, second class citizens.

That isn't true, you really need to read proper history and no go by sweeping sterotypes.. read about the history of visigoths.. many people considered Muslims to be liberators not the oppressors!

I'm friend with a few Muslim girls, all wear head scarves, none have problems. France is wrong, so is Turkey. IMHO anyway

Turkey isn't an Islamic state, and Islam isn't responsible for how a mainly viking like turkey understood Islam to be, any more than it is responsible for how the Mongols understood Islam to be.. The Muslim world was seized by genghis khan and later his grandson converted to Islam.. we can't help it if savagery and barbarism is in their blood.. You can only hope when they do convert they become the best Muslims, often times people aren't..

Let's say, you've had a heroin addiction before you became Muslim, and
plainly doing drugs goes against Islamic teaching, but, you find it hard to kick your habit, or do for the sake of your religion find it difficult and then revert to your old ways, on the account it is something your body has grown accustomed to.. Should Islam and Muslims take credit for how you are as an individual?

And legalized inferiority under the law only invites further abuse

Show me one law in Islam that legalizes inferiority then!

And they can move, or change the government. Under the global domination he is sdvocating there is no excape for us non-Muslims, if the Saudi people want Chariah law, then so long as their people can leave at will I don't care, that's their buisness, but when you want the entire planet under religious law, that is a nightmare with no excape.

Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, I don't know if you have noticed.. true khilafah runs on a shura system.. there is a counsel and people vote yes even women!

I don't see how Shariah law would be simmilar, would you deney that laws contradicting Islam would not be allowed, that non-Muslims would have fewer rights etc?

You are painting with wide brush strokes, I have no idea how to attempt a reply to that.. merely since it doesn't actually merit one!

Catholics, Jews, Muslims, atheists, protestants, pagans, bhuddists, hindu's etc all live equeally under the law in my state:?

You'd be a fool if you averted your eyes to a very real and existing cast system.. It doesn't have to be Indian style pariahs or brahmins.. but one really does exist.. and not just in term of religion/race/creed but even between the sexes.. and on the highest levels.. You apply for a job as a female Intensivist for an ICU in any affluent hospital and see if you rake up the same salary as your male counterpart.. which they often justify under the guise of, women simply don't work as many hours, taking time for childbirth, breastfeeding etc

What doe that mean?:)

it means ciao

[wth1257]

I am highly versatile indeed!

:?

That isn't true, you really need to read proper history and no go by sweeping sterotypes.. read about the history of visigoths.. many people considered Muslims to be liberators not the oppressors!

Sure, and again, I think most, besides crazy right wing nuts, would admit that religious minorities under Islamic law generally had a much better time than under Christian theocracies.

However, Religious minorities, as I understand it, are still not equals. For instance not being able to testify aghinst Muslims in court, as always I am perfectly willing to be proven wrong.

Turkey isn't an Islamic state, and Islam isn't responsible for how a mainly viking like turkey understood Islam to be, any more than it is responsible for how the Mongols understood Islam to be..

:?

I never said Turkey was, I think most people would consider the Ottoman empire as an Islamic state, however.

The Muslim world was seized by genghis khan and later his grandson converted to Islam.. we can't help it if savagery and barbarism is in their blood.. You can only hope when they do convert they become the best Muslims, often times people aren't..

I don't know what this relates to:?

Let's say, you've had a heroin addiction before you became Muslim, and plainly doing drugs goes against Islamic teaching, but, you find it hard to kick your habit, or do for the sake of your religion find it difficult and then revert to your old ways, on the account it is something your body has grown accustomed to.. Should Islam and Muslims take credit for how you are as an individual?

alright

Show me one law in Islam that legalizes inferiority then!

:?

I don't know of one set body of doctrin that IS shariah law, in most places that have had it however, we see inferiority of woman, non-muslims not being allowed to testify aghinst Muslims in court, not allowed to cary weapons, not allowed to ride atop a horse, etc

Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, I don't know if you have noticed.. true khilafah runs on a shura system.. there is a counsel and people vote yes even women!

:?

alright

If the people of South Dakota want to live under Shariah law that's fine with me so long as people are free to leave and they don't force it on others

You are painting with wide brush strokes, I have no idea how to attempt a reply to that.. merely since it doesn't actually merit one!

I think we both are.

Look, name an Islamic State that you would say embodies Shariah law, and we'll look at it.

You'd be a fool if you averted your eyes to a very real and existing cast system..

Cast system is a bit strong, I would agrea that there is de facto inequality in American society, that is significantly different from institutionalized, legal inequality.

It doesn't have to be Indian style pariahs or brahmins.. but one really does exist.. and not just in term of religion/race/creed but even between the sexes.. and on the highest levels.. You apply for a job as a female Intensivist for an ICU in any affluent hospital and see if you rake up the same salary as your male counterpart.. which they often justify under the guise of, women simply don't work as many hours, taking time for childbirth, breastfeeding etc[/QUOTE]

Sure, however that is something that can, and likely in the future, will be corrected, much different than the state mandating that employers MUST pay women less.

[جوري]

Sure, and again, I think most, besides crazy right wing nuts, would admit that religious minorities under Islamic law generally had a much better time than under Christian theocracies.

However, Religious minorities, as I understand it, are still not equals. For instance not being able to testify aghinst Muslims in court, as always I am perfectly willing to be proven wrong.

Says who? the sword of Ali ibn Abbi talib was stolen by a Jew once, and even though it bore his name, he couldn't bring witness to the theft, that the judge ruled in the Jew' favor.. It is so predictable what the lot of you come up with, it gets boring after a while!

I never said Turkey was, I think most people would consider the Ottoman empire as an Islamic state, however.

Started off that way, then deranged.. and I don't wish to get into the history of that from robbing Egypt and Syria of their local armies, scientists and artisans.. so when the Brits invaded and divided, they were left eay prey.. that isn't how a Muslim empire should function that isn't in accordance to shari3a law..

I don't know what this relates to:?

Ok

alright

Ok yet again

:?

I don't know of one set body of doctrin that IS shariah law, in most places that have had it however, we see inferiority of woman, non-muslims not being allowed to testify aghinst Muslims in court, not allowed to cary weapons, not allowed to ride atop a horse, etc

What the hell are you talking about? This is the sort of crap you should pull on another site one that fosters inferior quality knowledge, for starters don't speak on behalf of Muslim women least of which under shari3a law..

:?

alright

If the people of South Dakota want to live under Shariah law that's fine with me so long as people are free to leave and they don't force it on others

you are starting to confabulate.. and I hate wasting my time on nonesense!

I think we both are.

Look, name an Islamic State that you would say embodies Shariah law, and we'll look at it.

There are none.. as prophecized

the Prophet (saws) said "The Prophethood will remain among you for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will lift it when He wishes to, then it will be a Khilafah Rashidah (Rightly Guided) on the method of the Prophethood, it will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will lift it if He wishes, then it will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if he wishes, then it will be a tyrannical rule, and it will remain so for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes, then it will be a Khilafah on the method of the Prophethood, then he kept silent."

Sure, however that is something that can, and likely in the future, will be corrected, much different than the state mandating that employers MUST pay women less.

Because you have said so? Let's stop wasting each other' time

cheers

[north_malaysian]

I wonder why Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia are not included in the border? Maybe..because we're not important:cry:

[wth1257]

Says who?

It's been in several Muslims states and I have heard that it is conventional in Shariah law, if I'm wrong please just correct me, simple as that:?

the sword of Ali ibn Abbi talib was stolen by a Jew once, and even though it bore his name, he couldn't bring witness to the theft, that the judge ruled in the Jew' favor.. It is so predictable what the lot of you come up with, it gets boring after a while!

What lot would that be?

Started off that way, then deranged.. and I don't wish to get into the history of that from robbing Egypt and Syria of their local armies, scientists and artisans.. so when the Brits invaded and divided, they were left eay prey.. that isn't how a Muslim empire should function that isn't in accordance to shari3a law..

is there a set text I could read that specifically spells out the specifics of the law?

Ok




Ok yet again

glad we are in agreament:exhausted:)

What the hell are you talking about? This is the sort of crap you should pull on another site one that fosters inferior quality knowledge, for starters don't speak on behalf of Muslim women least of which under shari3a law..

I'm talking about the experiences of non-Muslims under Shariah law:?

you are starting to confabulate.. and I hate wasting my time on nonesense!

I'm not confabulating, I said if the people of Saudi Arabia want Shariah law that is fine with me so long as people are free to leave, my objection comes when people want global Islamic law.

You objected to Saudi Arabia, saying it was a monarchy not an Islamic state, I would not disagrea, my point in refrencing South Dakota was that it dosen't matter what land mass you choose, I just picked Saudi Arabia because of the popular association they have with Shariah law.

Let's pretend this is logic class

For any 'x' if x wants a system of governemtn 'y' such that 'y' is a system of Shariah law, and for any 'z' if 'z' wants to leave 'y', then'y' does nothign to prevent 'z', then, for any 'w' such that 'w' is the desire of 'x' to impliment 'z', I have no problem with 'w'.

clear it up?

not exactly proper transcript but it'll do




[QUOTE[There are none.. as prophecized[/QUOTE]

There has NEVER, even under the Prophet MUhammed, been a government properly implimenting Shariah law?

Because you have said so? Let's stop wasting each other' time

cheers

It's not my oppinion that institutionalized discrimination is different from de facto discrimination.

[Fishman]

:sl:

Turkey isn't an Islamic state, and Islam isn't responsible for how a mainly viking like turkey understood Islam to be, any more than it is responsible for how the Mongols understood Islam to be

Turks are not Vikings! :enough!:

Turks are a central asian nomadic people from the lands to the northwest of China. They migrated westwards, conquering lands as the went. When their fragile empires collapsed, the people would remain and populate the lands. Eventually the turks reached Europe and the Middle east, where they attacked the existing civilisations. However, they soon became Muslims and settled down in Anatolia.
:w:

[Keltoi]

:sl:

Turks are not Vikings! :enough!:

Turks are a central asian nomadic people from the lands to the northwest of China. They migrated westwards, conquering lands as the went. When their fragile empires collapsed, the people would remain and populate the lands. Eventually the turks reached Europe and the Middle east, where they attacked the existing civilisations. However, they soon became Muslims and settled down in Anatolia.
:w:

I think she meant "viking like", as in warlike and fueled by an instinct to plunder and conquer.

[جوري]

:sl:

Turks are not Vikings! :enough!:

:

The operative word there is viking 'LIKE


I have lost interest in this thread otherwise

cheers

[جوري]

the Prophet (saws) said "The Prophethood will remain among you for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will lift it when He wishes to, then it will be a Khilafah Rashidah (Rightly Guided) on the method of the Prophethood, it will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will lift it if He wishes, then it will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if he wishes, then it will be a tyrannical rule, and it will remain so for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes, then it will be a Khilafah on the method of the Prophethood, then he kept silent."

There has NEVER, even under the Prophet MUhammed, been a government properly implimenting Shariah law?

.

Let's cut through this crap and ask one Q.. do you read anything I post, or do you have a cluster of pigeonholes that you wish to hurl out without interest in exchange or a quest for learning?

cheers

[Whatsthepoint]

They live as the Jewish maimondes lived under Islamic rule!

hat about hindus, buddhists, scientologists etc?

[جوري]

hat about hindus, buddhists, scientologists etc?

I think most of you writing here, have missed the point entirely, which is a grievous thing since I really do tire of repeating myself.. we are speaking of a prognostication, slowely unravelling for an immense sign of the end being the descent of Jesus himself (if that doesn't catch your attention when it happens) then what can I say... nothing will.. I don't think you need to terribly concern yourself with prophecies yet unfulfilled, least of which if you don't subscribe to a religion are an atheist or if your religion has its own rendition of what it all means..

All we can do is sit and wait for it to happen.. If still unhappy then, surely there will be a league of the antichrist to join.. but if/when he descends there wont be hindus, buddhists and I dare say I don't think scientology has another 3 years under its belt let alone a few hundreds... bottom line is, there will be only two groups left in the world..

the unconcerned and unaffected lock themselves down in a bomb shelter with some canned food, considering the earth itself at that point will have sustained famine, droughts, crop failure, poverty and disease wiping people in the thousands.. so it is good to be prepared as to hold on unyielding to the then dramatically changing tides...


cheers

[Fishman]

The operative word there is viking 'LIKE


I have lost interest in this thread otherwise

cheers

:sl:
Okay then. I'm just completely obsessed with Central Asia...
:w:

[Keltoi]

:sl:
Okay then. I'm just completely obsessed with Central Asia...
:w:

:D I feel for you. People obsessed with history, like you and I, tend to get uptight about historical accuracy.

[Whatsthepoint]

I think most of you writing here, have missed the point entirely, which is a grievous thing since I really do tire of repeating myself.. we are speaking of a prognostication, slowely unravelling for an immense sign of the end being the descent of Jesus himself (if that doesn't catch your attention when it happens) then what can I say... nothing will.. I don't think you need to terribly concern yourself with prophecies yet unfulfilled, least of which if you don't subscribe to a religion are an atheist or if your religion has its own rendition of what it all means..

All we can do is sit and wait for it to happen.. If still unhappy then, surely there will be a league of the antichrist to join.. but if/when he descends there wont be hindus, buddhists and I dare say I don't think scientology has another 3 years under its belt let alone a few hundreds... bottom line is, there will be only two groups left in the world..

the unconcerned and unaffected lock themselves down in a bomb shelter with some canned food, considering the earth itself at that point will have sustained famine, droughts, crop failure, poverty and disease wiping people in the thousands.. so it is good to be prepared as to hold on unyielding to the then dramatically changing tides...


cheers

Relax!:)
I was just asking how the rights of non-abrahamic minorities are protected under the islamic law.

[جوري]

Relax!:)

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh mazing :D

I was just asking how the rights of non-abrahamic minorities are protected under the islamic law.

well of course they are....

[wth1257]

Let's cut through this crap

That would be delightfull if you care to actually participate.

and ask one Q.. do you read anything I post

I have read everything you wrote to me, why you are reluctant to answer questions directly I do not know.

Someone asks you about the conditions of atheists under Islamic rule, you make an obscure refrence rather than specifics. I have asked if you have some text you feel spells out the specifics of shariah law you don't answer, I ask if there is one Islamic state that had ha shariah law you wish to examine you claim non exists, I ask if that include the Prophets rule and you cite some obscure ambiguious prophecy with not context, you vaguely mention some implicity soaicl cast system and now seem to have dropped that.

All the while you have supplimented you ambiguity not with substance but with petty ad hominems and aversions.

or do you have a cluster of pigeonholes that you wish to hurl out without interest in exchange or a quest for learning?

I am not a Muslim and understand I am a guest here, and have been appreciative of the hospitality extended to me, because of my status here and my admitted ignorance I am extremely receptive to correction, I am not, however, particularly receptive to ambiguity.

If you want to have a substantive discussion I'd be delighted to have it.

[wth1257]

I think most of you writing here, have missed the point entirely, which is a grievous thing since I really do tire of repeating myself.. we are speaking of a prognostication, slowely unravelling for an immense sign of the end being the descent of Jesus himself (if that doesn't catch your attention when it happens) then what can I say... nothing will.. I don't think you need to terribly concern yourself with prophecies yet unfulfilled, least of which if you don't subscribe to a religion are an atheist or if your religion has its own rendition of what it all means..

All we can do is sit and wait for it to happen.. If still unhappy then, surely there will be a league of the antichrist to join.. but if/when he descends there wont be hindus, buddhists and I dare say I don't think scientology has another 3 years under its belt let alone a few hundreds... bottom line is, there will be only two groups left in the world..

the unconcerned and unaffected lock themselves down in a bomb shelter with some canned food, considering the earth itself at that point will have sustained famine, droughts, crop failure, poverty and disease wiping people in the thousands.. so it is good to be prepared as to hold on unyielding to the then dramatically changing tides...


cheers

Would you care to give a specific answer, how will atheists be treated under Islamic law.

simple answer, will they have all the right of Muslims? yes or no

How will someone who is critical of Islam be treated, how would a Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris etc be treated

[جوري]

That would be delightfull if you care to actually participate.



I have read everything you wrote to me, why you are reluctant to answer questions directly I do not know.

You are kidding right? this is coming from the one circumvents every reply to either pose the same question again and again or indites a complete nonsequitur to the discussion!

Someone asks you about the conditions of atheists under Islamic rule, you make an obscure refrence rather than specifics. I have asked if you have some text you feel spells out the specifics of shariah law you don't answer, I ask if there is one Islamic state that had ha shariah law you wish to examine you claim non exists, I ask if that include the Prophets rule and you cite some obscure ambiguious prophecy with not context, you vaguely mention some implicity soaicl cast system and now seem to have dropped that.

1- I'd think the 'obsecure reference which happened to the forth kalif is enough of a specific?
2- you want specific text, here is a million, I am not going to summarize entire law books in a paragraph only to have you be displeased with it



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http://islamicbookstore.com/books-hi...-in-islam.html

3- indeed no shari3a states exist.. how would you like to begin the discussion?
did a shari3a state exist, I believe I have listed several, up to mid ottoman empire!

All the while you have supplimented you ambiguity not with substance but with petty ad hominems and aversions.

That seems to be an adequate assessment of someone who speaks on behalf of all opressed Muslim women, yet apparently at the same time feels emasculated by one!

I am not a Muslim and understand I am a guest here, and have been appreciative of the hospitality extended to me, because of my status here and my admitted ignorance I am extremely receptive to correction, I am not, however, particularly receptive to ambiguity.

If you want to have a substantive discussion I'd be delighted to have it.

I don't know where your base line is.. you seem to get it from the same websites as the rest of the atheists and islamophobes?
I can't begin nor have interest in combating pre-conceived notions!
Until your question style evolves a little, or the subject matter isn't along the lines of jingoistic platitudes can we have this discussion

cheers


cheers

[جوري]

Would you care to give a specific answer, how will atheists be treated under Islamic law.

simple answer, will they have all the right of Muslims? yes or no

How will someone who is critical of Islam be treated, how would a Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris etc be treated

Did you read anything at all about Maimondes as I had posted?
when he was expelled from Spain, he lived under Islamic rule, wrote a book entitled 'The ills of the sons of Ishmael' meant to mock the Muslims who have taken him under their wings, he was left be, didn't lose his head or position for that matter.. merely a book rebuttal was written to refute him entitled 'the accolades of the sons of Ishmeal'

Now if I didn't give you a specific example you'd riot for an example, if I give you an example, you are unhappy it not bearing a connection with the subject..

surely the above is distilled enough so you don't have to God forbid purchase a book and read and in language even a three year old can understand?... There a nemesis of Islam left to write an anti-Islamic book under Islamic rule... and not denied or restrained...would you like it written on clouds-- or are you just unhappy because it doesn't flow with your idea of crazed men chanting on the streets and oppressed women?

cheers

[wth1257]

Did you read anything at all about Maimondes as I had posted?
when he was expelled from Spain, he lived under Islamic rule, wrote a book entitled 'The ills of the sons of Ishmael' meant to mock the Muslims who have taken him under their wings, he was left be, didn't lose his head or position for that matter.. merely a book rebuttal was written to refute him entitled 'the accolades of the sons of Ishmeal'

You have said there has never been a truely Islamic state I beleive, however you have cited this as a case study of how religious minorities would be treated under Islamic rule, does this mean we can use Islamic states as precidents for how their would be treated in the future scinario?

Now if I didn't give you a specific example you'd riot for an example, if I give you an example, you are unhappy it not bearing a connection with the subject..

Not really, I have only asked what Islam mandates for religious minorities. So far you STILL haven't given any specifics, you have cited a long list of books and pointed to one man, if you want to open up the gates to allow past treatment of religious minorities that's fine, if you don't then present the actual teachings.

surely the above is distilled enough so you don't have to God forbid purchase a book and read and in language even a three year old can understand?

:?

... There a nemesis of Islam left to write an anti-Islamic book under Islamic rule... and not denied or restrained

Except according to you there has never been a state that TRUELY followed Islamic law.

...would you like it written on clouds-- or are you just unhappy because it doesn't flow with your idea of crazed men chanting on the streets and oppressed women?

I have no such image of Islam or Muslims, who yur are so obsessed with presenting this incoherant argument while insinuating I'm an anti-Islamic biggot I do not know.

You claim that no state has truely has Shariah law, then point to this scholar as proof of the good treatment of religious minorities under Islamic law, except according to you the state, indeed no state, has been truely Islamic, I'm sorry does anyone else find that silly?

I have had no problem saying that religious minorities under Islamic rule received much better treatment than religious minorities under Christendom, I have absolutly no problem saying that, I have no problem saying that MUhammed is something of a hearo of mine, that Islam is a beautifull religion and the Koran is a beautifull text, I ONLY have a problem with people who wish the impliment Shariah law on the entire globe.

I ask you ONE simple question you have yet to answer,

would non-Muslims, ALL non MUslims, have perfect equality with Muslims under Shariah law.

Perhape I am misunderstanding you, in which case, simply correct me.

cheers

You insinuate I'm an anti-Muslim biggot, then say "cheers", kind of strange

[wth1257]

You are kidding right? this is coming from the one circumvents every reply to either pose the same question again and again or indites a complete nonsequitur to the discussion!

rawr

1- I'd think the 'obsecure reference which happened to the forth kalif is enough of a specific?

Simply because Ali said it dosen't meake it uncryptic:?

2- you want specific text, here is a million, I am not going to summarize entire law books in a paragraph only to have you be displeased with it

I haven't asked for entire law books condensed, I have asked what Islamic law dictates for non-Muslims

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http://islamicbookstore.com/books-hi...-in-islam.html

right, that's clear and specific.

"Well, I don't have time to condense all the law, here are fifty books you cas read"

how about this, give me one specific book you feel represents it and I will read it. I'm completely honest, I'm a broke college student so nothing to expensive please:-[, but if you feel there is any one, or hell two books that represent Islamic law properly I will read them.

3- indeed no shari3a states exist.. how would you like to begin the discussion?
did a shari3a state exist, I believe I have listed several, up to mid ottoman empire!

No, I was under the impression that you were maintaining that no truely Islamic state has ever existed, if this was wrong I'm sorry, as usual just correct me, which state do you feel have properly implimented Islamic law?

That seems to be an adequate assessment of someone who speaks on behalf of all opressed Muslim women, yet apparently at the same time feels emasculated by one!

:?
:?
:?

I don't know where your base line is.. you seem to get it from the same websites as the rest of the atheists and islamophobes?

I'm neither an atheist or an Islamaphobe, by primary source of knoledge of Islam come from Reza Aslan, Akbar Ahmed, the Koran, and Muslims friends.

I can't begin nor have interest in combating pre-conceived notions!

You friend are the one with the preconceived assumption that I am a biggot.

Until your question style evolves a little, or the subject matter isn't along the lines of jingoistic platitudes can we have this discussion

rawr again>.>

cheers


cheers

I don't drink:blind:

[Jeremy]

How is the nation of finland an enemy of islam.
Is the whole world an enemy of Islam?

This is simply one of Dr Trax's islamosupremist, Islamofacist posts, and people are accepting it as that the whole world will peacefully see the light of Islam.

"Dr" Trax is talking about coercian and death. Before you cheer, identify his motives.

I would think twice about what you said. I dont know where you are, but here in the states, we do have a thing called Freedom of Religon. It applies to ALL religons. No matter how big or small they may be.

[جوري]

You have said there has never been a truely Islamic state I beleive, however you have cited this as a case study of how religious minorities would be treated under Islamic rule, does this mean we can use Islamic states as precidents for how their would be treated in the future scinario?

No, that isn't what I have said, go back and read.. I am pressed for time and can't go back and quote and re-quote you, however, go back a couple of pages, you'll see, you'd asked for an analysis of an EXISTING Islamic state, saudi Arabia or whatever, and I told you a monarchy isn't an Islamic state, currently no Islamic states implementing shari3a law exist! to which you've either out of lack of intellectual acuity or to intentionally playing dumb, decided to state, wasn't there an Islamic state during Mohammed's time, surely I have mentioned before that there were, Rashidun, Abbasaid, Fatimids, Ommayds and Ottomans, and cited you a Hadith on what has become and what is to become of that... Are we clear at this point?

Not really, I have only asked what Islam mandates for religious minorities. So far you STILL haven't given any specifics, you have cited a long list of books and pointed to one man, if you want to open up the gates to allow past treatment of religious minorities that's fine, if you don't then present the actual teachings.

Islam Mandates equality and good treatment.. if nothing else here is an excerpt from the Quran

لَّيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَن تُوَلُّواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلَـكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَالْمَلآئِكَةِ وَالْكِتَابِ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ وَآتَى الْمَالَ عَلَى حُبِّهِ ذَوِي الْقُرْبَى وَالْيَتَامَى وَالْمَسَاكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَالسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِي الرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلاةَ وَآتَى الزَّكَاةَ وَالْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عَاهَدُواْ وَالصَّابِرِينَ فِي الْبَأْسَاء والضَّرَّاء وَحِينَ الْبَأْسِ أُولَـئِكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَأُولَـئِكَ هُمُ الْمُتَّقُونَ {177}

[Pickthal 2:177] It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing.


You don't want to read books, you don't want specific examples as to you they are not adequate.. if what is written plain to see in the Quran is also difficult to decipher, then there really is no point of this, is there?

Except according to you there has never been a state that TRUELY followed Islamic law.

No, that isn't according to me at all. It is according to you, for even the Hadith I have posted points to starting out with a khilafah rashida our current state of tyranny and ending again in a khilafah rashida.. you see that is how one can tell you don't read, and frankly wish to waste my time on repetition as a rhetorical device perhaps?

I have no such image of Islam or Muslims, who yur are so obsessed with presenting this incoherant argument while insinuating I'm an anti-Islamic biggot I do not know.

I think the dear readers should be left to decipher what they may from what you've written and from what I have clearely presented!

You claim that no state has truely has Shariah law, then point to this scholar as proof of the good treatment of religious minorities under Islamic law, except according to you the state, indeed no state, has been truely Islamic, I'm sorry does anyone else find that silly?

I find YOU indeed very silly.. perhaps this time the writing will remain in your memory for more than a good two second and instead of clangorous insistency on humbug, you'll read for a change!

I have had no problem saying that religious minorities under Islamic rule received much better treatment than religious minorities under Christendom, I have absolutly no problem saying that, I have no problem saying that MUhammed is something of a hearo of mine, that Islam is a beautifull religion and the Koran is a beautifull text, I ONLY have a problem with people who wish the impliment Shariah law on the entire globe.

Shari3a law being implemented on the entire globe will be the choice of the people as that is the prophecy! You need not worry yourself really with things that haven't yet been fulfilled!

I ask you ONE simple question you have yet to answer,
would non-Muslims, ALL non MUslims, have perfect equality with Muslims under Shariah law.

Under Islam yes.. I can't account for individual prejudices anymore than I can under a democratic system!

Perhape I am misunderstanding you, in which case, simply correct me.

I hope I have this time!

You insinuate I'm an anti-Muslim biggot, then say "cheers", kind of strange

I don't tend to have beef with biggots whether you are or aren't one.. I think it rather self-imposed ignorance..

truly to learn one must pick a book, you'll not be pleased with anyone's view otherwise.. Anyone can be biased it is human.. shouldn't you read and draw your own conclusions?

cheers

[جوري]

"Well, I don't have time to condense all the law, here are fifty books you cas read"

how about this, give me one specific book you feel represents it and I will read it. I'm completely honest, I'm a broke college student so nothing to expensive please:-[, but if you feel there is any one, or hell two books that represent Islamic law properly I will read them.

Tell me what in specific aspects of Islam are you curious about and I'll try to find you one on line where you don't have to spend any money at all..
Do you want a book on jurisprudence?
legal philsophy
law
there is a great website called kalamullah, which I believe very much covers every aspect of Islam even Islamic medicine ...
and here it is

http://kalamullah.com/books.html


if this isn't adequate, I'll try to find others.. I need to run


peace

[wth1257]

No, that isn't what I have said, go back and read.. I am pressed for time and can't go back and quote and re-quote you, however, go back a couple of pages, you'll see, you'd asked for an analysis of an EXISTING Islamic state, saudi Arabia or whatever, and I told you a monarchy isn't an Islamic state, currently no Islamic states implementing shari3a law exist! to which you've either out of lack of intellectual acuity or to intentionally playing dumb, decided to state, wasn't there an Islamic state during Mohammed's time, surely I have mentioned before that there were, Rashidun, Abbasaid, Fatimids, Ommayds and Ottomans, and cited you a Hadith on what has become and what is to become of that... Are we clear at this point?

You highlighted them as instances where religious minorities under religious law received good treatment, I don't think you ever claimed they demonstrated a proper implimentation of Shariah law, if that's what you intended sorry for the confusion

Islam Mandates equality and good treatment.. if nothing else here is an excerpt from the Quran

لَّيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَن تُوَلُّواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلَـكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَالْمَلآئِكَةِ وَالْكِتَابِ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ وَآتَى الْمَالَ عَلَى حُبِّهِ ذَوِي الْقُرْبَى وَالْيَتَامَى وَالْمَسَاكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَالسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِي الرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلاةَ وَآتَى الزَّكَاةَ وَالْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عَاهَدُواْ وَالصَّابِرِينَ فِي الْبَأْسَاء والضَّرَّاء وَحِينَ الْبَأْسِ أُولَـئِكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَأُولَـئِكَ هُمُ الْمُتَّقُونَ {177}

[Pickthal 2:177] It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing.


You don't want to read books, you don't want specific examples as to you they are not adequate.. if what is written plain to see in the Quran is also difficult to decipher, then there really is no point of this, is there?

There is nothing ambiguious about "The Cow", I do read books, I'm happy to look at examples

No, that isn't according to me at all. It is according to you, for even the Hadith I have posted points to starting out with a khilafah rashida our current state of tyranny and ending again in a khilafah rashida.. you see that is how one can tell you don't read, and frankly wish to waste my time on repetition as a rhetorical device perhaps?

alrighty

I think the dear readers should be left to decipher what they may from what you've written and from what I have clearely presented!

Please point to one thing I have said, here or elsewhere, that is biggoted.

I find YOU indeed very silly.. perhaps this time the writing will remain in your memory for more than a good two second and instead of clangorous insistency on humbug, you'll read for a change!

:?

Shari3a law being implemented on the entire globe will be the choice of the people as that is the prophecy! You need not worry yourself really with things that haven't yet been fulfilled!

I'm not actually worried as I don't think there is any evidence to suggust there will ever be Shariah law, what I am concerned about is the attitude displayed here of people wishing for there to be global Islamic law.

Under Islam yes.. I can't account for individual prejudices anymore than I can under a democratic system!

Alright, I'll look under you instances to see where abuse occured, if at ll.

I think, however, you should note that this is perceisly what I was pointing to when I said there was no compulsion in religion in 1865 Mississippi yes I doubt any of us would like to live under it. Whenever your have an institutionalized religious minority under a theocracy you are inviting abuse, as we have seen throughout history. If Muslims can avoid this good for them.

I don't tend to have beef with biggots whether you are or aren't one.. I think it rather self-imposed ignorance..

What self imposed ignorance? If I were refusing to accecpt clear evidence I would understand this, however I have continually admitted my ignorance and my willingness to be corrected, and have even offered to read two books of your choosing, let's look in my backpack.

"The Primicy of the Sbjective", Foundations of Arithmatic" "Symbolic Logic", "In Search of the Origional Koran" , "Postmodernism ans Islam", "Contemporary Islamic Conversations, and the Koran, now one of those books is on Philosophy of Mind, the other are logic/foundations of mathematics philosophy, the rest are Islamic texts, that does not seem to be self impossed ignorance.

truly to learn one must pick a book, you'll not be pleased with anyone's view otherwise.. Anyone can be biased it is human.. shouldn't you read and draw your own conclusions?

Sure

[wth1257]

Tell me what in specific aspects of Islam are you curious about and I'll try to find you one on line where you don't have to spend any money at all..
Do you want a book on jurisprudence?
legal philsophy
law
there is a great website called kalamullah, which I believe very much covers every aspect of Islam even Islamic medicine ...
and here it is

http://kalamullah.com/books.html


if this isn't adequate, I'll try to find others.. I need to run


peace

I was really just asking about a book you feel properly represent Islamic Law/Political Theory and how it relates to religious minorities.

You don't need to stress yourself, I have a fairly large library at my disposal, and can look into things, I was just opening myself up to receive what you feel to be a proper representation of Islamic Law.

[islamirama]

Relax!:)
I was just asking how the rights of non-abrahamic minorities are protected under the islamic law.

Study Islam and islamic history and you will find out. Minorities were better treated and protected under shar'iah then they were under their oppressive dictators. Why do you think many christian nations were requesting help from Muslims to be invaded be ruled over rather then deal with their "royal crap".

[afzalaung]

ooo.....
InshaAllah...
but it seems too idealistic... probably wont happen in my life time...unless Imam Mahdi descend one of these days.inshaAllah

[tetsujin]

Study Islam and islamic history and you will find out. Minorities were better treated and protected under shar'iah then they were under their oppressive dictators. Why do you think many christian nations were requesting help from Muslims to be invaded be ruled over rather then deal with their "royal crap".

Which christian nation requested to be invaded by muslims?


I'm just curious, my history is weak.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

which Muslim country asked to be invaded? even now....

[tetsujin]

which Muslim country asked to be invaded? even now....

Great, so you understand my point. Though I haven't made the claim that Muslim counties asked to be invaded.


I still wait for an answer.

[north_malaysian]

which Muslim country asked to be invaded? even now....

I dont know... but I can give several countries which a non-muslim nation asked the muslim nation asking to be invaded......:blind: (i'm joking!)

[north_malaysian]

Which christian nation requested to be invaded by muslims?

erm.... Egypt?

[tetsujin]

erm.... Egypt?

Is that a question or an answer?

[north_malaysian]

Is that a question or an answer?

unconfirmed answer...

[tetsujin]

unconfirmed answer...

Would you mind confirming it?

[north_malaysian]

Would you mind confirming it?

Egyptian Christianity under Islamic Rule


Islam rose in Saudia Arabia early in the seventh century, then swept across the Middle East and North Africa. Egypt fell to the Arabs by the middle of the seventh century, in large part because the rulers of both church and state were the hated imperial Chalcedonian Christians. The Coptic-speaking monophysite majority rejoiced to be free of Byzantine rule, gained a measure of religious toleration they had not known since the Council of Chalcedon, and found themselves taxed at just over half the rate they had been under the Empire.

For the first four centuries of their rule, the Arabs treated the Copts with forebearance, in part because Mohammed, whose Egyptian wife was the only one to bear him a son, had said "When you conquer Egypt, be kind to the Copts for they are your proteges and kith and kin." The Copts were therefore allowed to practice their religion freely, and were protected as "People of the Book" as long as they paid a special tax, called the "Geyza." The Coptic population became an important source of revenue for the Islamic governors, and at one point they discouraged conversion to Islam for financial reasons. The tax advantages of becoming Muslim led to a slow decline in the Coptic population until it stabilized at just under 10% of the population.

The Copts replaced Greek speakers as the civil servants and administrators of Egypt, in large measure because they, unlike Arabic speaking Muslim rulers, spoke the language of the general population. For generations, Copts who had learned Arabic were the only scribes, magistrates, or tax collectors. From the turn of the eighth century, when Arabic became the official language of Egypt until the late middle ages, when Coptic ceased being a spoken language, the Coptic community was a bilingual community. As the Copts subsided further and further into minority status without surrendering their tradition of serving in the civil service, they became hated and vilified by the Muslim population, who occasionally rioted and burned Coptic churches and neighbourhoods.

At the turn of the millennium the Caliph al Hakim, who was probably insane, turned against Christian and Jews, and later also against Muslims, torturing and killing thousands of people. He forced all Christians to wear distinctive dress, including a five pound cross which every Christian had to wear around his or her neck. He forced Jews to wear a heavy bell around their necks, and dismissed all non-Muslims from administrative offices. Al Hakim turned loose the Egyptian mob to demolish Coptic Churches and Jewish synagogues, walled off a Jewish street, leaving all inside to die of starvation, and also walled and sealed the doors of a public bath for women, entombing alive all those who were inside. He banned all women from appearing on the streets of Egypt for any reason. At Caliph al Hakim’s death, toleration returned, the center of Coptic Christianity shifted from Alexandria to the new capital, Cairo and churches were rebuilt.

The Crusades brought another dark time to the history of the Coptic Church. Coptic Christians were caught between two equally hostile forces during the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. Muslims came to hate all Christians in Muslim world, while Latin Christians despised the Copts as heretics. During the Crusades, Latin Christians came to control the Holy Land, but prevented the Copts from fulfilling their binding religious obligation to go on pilgrimage to the Holy Land by preventing Copts from entering the holy sites.

In 1168 the Islamic capital of al-Fustat was burned to the ground by its Muslim governor, in order to prevent it from falling into the hands of the Crusaders, who could use it as a fortress from which to invade all Egypt. He used 20,000 barrels of naphtha lit by 10,000 torches to raze the city, which burned for 54 days. The predominantly Coptic population fled, and was made destitute overnight. Shortly afterwards the Fatimid dynasty collapsed to be replaced by Saladin and the Ayyubids. Life did not change much for the Copts through all the dynastic changes, which included the Mamaluk takeover about 1250 and the later conquest by the Ottoman Turks in 1500. The major change was the death of Coptic as a spoken language under the Mamaluks. The church, however, held on to Coptic as the church’s liturgical language up to the present. The mob still hated the Copts, and unless restrained by rulers who found their administrative acumen useful, burned churches and Coptic neighbourhoods. In 1320 after a particular severe season of rioting, the Christian desert monks swept into the cities in retaliation and burned down mosques and Muslim neighbourhoods, then returned to the desert.

Patriarch Cyril IV (1854-61) took advantage of a period of toleration to initiate serious reform and rebuilding, including the construction of a Coptic Orthodox College. He endowed the college with enough funds to enable it to teach students without charging them tuition, and appointed professors in Coptic, Arabic, Turkish, French, English and Italian, as well as the usual theological and academic curriculum. In addition he opened the first women’s college in Egyptian history, and established a flourishing printing press. When the physical press arrived Cyril ordered that it be met by an official religious processional, which accompanied the press, chanting hymns all the way from Cairo station to the patriarchate. Cyril IV also arranged for nation-wide clerical education, summoning all the priests within reach of the capital to regular Sunday classes and theological discussions, and directing clergy to re-learn the proper liturgies and chants to use in services.

In the last half of the twentieth century, the Coptic Church has engaged in extensive ecumenical dialog with other Coptic Churches, as well as Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Protestant churches. In 1987 the Copic Church and the Orthodox Churches agreed to a common statement on the nature of Christ, and lifted the mutual anathemas they had held on each other since the fifth century, and in the early 1990s the Coptic Church and the Roman Catholic Church came to agreement on their understanding of the nature of Christ and declared one another Sister Churches.

Source: http://www.bethel.edu/~letnie/Africa...tandIslam.html

[tetsujin]

You read this before posting it, right?

Egyptian Christianity under Islamic Rule


Islam rose in Saudia Arabia early in the seventh century, then swept across the Middle East and North Africa. Egypt fell to the Arabs by the middle of the seventh century, in large part because the rulers of both church and state were the hated imperial Chalcedonian Christians. The Coptic-speaking monophysite majority rejoiced to be free of Byzantine rule, gained a measure of religious toleration they had not known since the Council of Chalcedon, and found themselves taxed at just over half the rate they had been under the Empire.

For the first four centuries of their rule, the Arabs treated the Copts with forebearance, in part because Mohammed, whose Egyptian wife was the only one to bear him a son, had said "When you conquer Egypt, be kind to the Copts for they are your proteges and kith and kin." The Copts were therefore allowed to practice their religion freely, and were protected as "People of the Book" as long as they paid a special tax, called the "Geyza." The Coptic population became an important source of revenue for the Islamic governors, and at one point they discouraged conversion to Islam for financial reasons. The tax advantages of becoming Muslim led to a slow decline in the Coptic population until it stabilized at just under 10% of the population.

The Copts replaced Greek speakers as the civil servants and administrators of Egypt, in large measure because they, unlike Arabic speaking Muslim rulers, spoke the language of the general population. For generations, Copts who had learned Arabic were the only scribes, magistrates, or tax collectors. From the turn of the eighth century, when Arabic became the official language of Egypt until the late middle ages, when Coptic ceased being a spoken language, the Coptic community was a bilingual community. As the Copts subsided further and further into minority status without surrendering their tradition of serving in the civil service, they became hated and vilified by the Muslim population, who occasionally rioted and burned Coptic churches and neighbourhoods.

At the turn of the millennium the Caliph al Hakim, who was probably insane, turned against Christian and Jews, and later also against Muslims, torturing and killing thousands of people. He forced all Christians to wear distinctive dress, including a five pound cross which every Christian had to wear around his or her neck. He forced Jews to wear a heavy bell around their necks, and dismissed all non-Muslims from administrative offices. Al Hakim turned loose the Egyptian mob to demolish Coptic Churches and Jewish synagogues, walled off a Jewish street, leaving all inside to die of starvation, and also walled and sealed the doors of a public bath for women, entombing alive all those who were inside. He banned all women from appearing on the streets of Egypt for any reason. At Caliph al Hakim’s death, toleration returned, the center of Coptic Christianity shifted from Alexandria to the new capital, Cairo and churches were rebuilt.

The Crusades brought another dark time to the history of the Coptic Church. Coptic Christians were caught between two equally hostile forces during the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. Muslims came to hate all Christians in Muslim world, while Latin Christians despised the Copts as heretics. During the Crusades, Latin Christians came to control the Holy Land, but prevented the Copts from fulfilling their binding religious obligation to go on pilgrimage to the Holy Land by preventing Copts from entering the holy sites.

In 1168 the Islamic capital of al-Fustat was burned to the ground by its Muslim governor, in order to prevent it from falling into the hands of the Crusaders, who could use it as a fortress from which to invade all Egypt. He used 20,000 barrels of naphtha lit by 10,000 torches to raze the city, which burned for 54 days. The predominantly Coptic population fled, and was made destitute overnight. Shortly afterwards the Fatimid dynasty collapsed to be replaced by Saladin and the Ayyubids. Life did not change much for the Copts through all the dynastic changes, which included the Mamaluk takeover about 1250 and the later conquest by the Ottoman Turks in 1500. The major change was the death of Coptic as a spoken language under the Mamaluks. The church, however, held on to Coptic as the church’s liturgical language up to the present. The mob still hated the Copts, and unless restrained by rulers who found their administrative acumen useful, burned churches and Coptic neighbourhoods. In 1320 after a particular severe season of rioting, the Christian desert monks swept into the cities in retaliation and burned down mosques and Muslim neighbourhoods, then returned to the desert.

Patriarch Cyril IV (1854-61) took advantage of a period of toleration to initiate serious reform and rebuilding, including the construction of a Coptic Orthodox College. He endowed the college with enough funds to enable it to teach students without charging them tuition, and appointed professors in Coptic, Arabic, Turkish, French, English and Italian, as well as the usual theological and academic curriculum. In addition he opened the first women’s college in Egyptian history, and established a flourishing printing press. When the physical press arrived Cyril ordered that it be met by an official religious processional, which accompanied the press, chanting hymns all the way from Cairo station to the patriarchate. Cyril IV also arranged for nation-wide clerical education, summoning all the priests within reach of the capital to regular Sunday classes and theological discussions, and directing clergy to re-learn the proper liturgies and chants to use in services.

In the last half of the twentieth century, the Coptic Church has engaged in extensive ecumenical dialog with other Coptic Churches, as well as Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Protestant churches. In 1987 the Copic Church and the Orthodox Churches agreed to a common statement on the nature of Christ, and lifted the mutual anathemas they had held on each other since the fifth century, and in the early 1990s the Coptic Church and the Roman Catholic Church came to agreement on their understanding of the nature of Christ and declared one another Sister Churches.

Source: http://www.bethel.edu/~letnie/Africa...tandIslam.html

Yeah..... sounds fun. So do you think they regretted it all or was all that rioting and driving back the muslims just for kicks?

[north_malaysian]

You read this before posting it, right?
Yeah..... sounds fun. So do you think they regretted it all or was all that rioting and driving back the muslims just for kicks?

I dont know... I'm not a Copt...

[tetsujin]

I dont know... I'm not a Copt...

Yeah... so.... They left a state of despair in hope of better treatment and then pretty much lost everything they had by the time they realized it.

I don't think you made your point.

[north_malaysian]

Yeah... so.... They left a state of despair in hope of better treatment and then pretty much lost everything they had by the time they realized it.

I don't think you made your point.

erm...actually most of them became Muslims... and most of the rulers after the righteous caliphs era were tyrants...

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Even today a lot of coptics are becoming Muslim. I mean if Muslims were really that horrible ever....why would any coptics exist? It's not like Ferdinand and Isabella, who wiped out half the Muslim population in Spain and others that were there.

[Dr.Trax]

1,8 Million Coptic Arab Christians CONVERT to Islam

Media Tags are no longer supported

:w:

[AvarAllahNoor]

Take over all you wish, as long as I am able to practice Sikhism freely and without prejedice within my own country. And all my Gurdwaras are left UNTOUCHED!

Guru Fateh!

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Your freedom of practice wouldnt be harmed under it. So dont worry :)

[north_malaysian]

Take over all you wish, as long as I am able to practice Sikhism freely and without prejedice within my own country. And all my Gurdwaras are left UNTOUCHED!

Guru Fateh!

Maybe the Sikhs should be given an autonomous province of Khalistan under the Islamic Caliphate...

[north_malaysian]

1,8 Million Coptic Arab Christians CONVERT to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=558cBIOm0oQ

:w:

Wow... and those converts are not being forced or abducted....and it's being told by a Coptic monk...

[tetsujin]

erm...actually most of them became Muslims... and most of the rulers after the righteous caliphs era were tyrants...

Conceptually, one can be righteous and a tyrant, as in the case of god/yhwh/allah.

[north_malaysian]

one can be righteous and a tyrant, as in the case of god/yhwh/allah.

I'm talking about those Caliphs after the Righteous Caliphs Era....

[tetsujin]

I'm talking about those Caliphs after the Righteous Caliphs Era....

In Islamic terms there are no negative connotations for a Muslim tyrant ruling over any land declared an Islamic state. Islamic law is absolute.

heresy = death, apostasy = death,

You are free to do as you please based on which ever verse you wish to quote. You can cherry pick the good ones, but they're far outweighed.

2:6*
2:15
2:24
2:858
2:8*
2:90
2:98*
2:105
2:114*
2:122
2:126*
2:142
2:154
2:162
2:168
2:172
2:175*
2:176
2:190-193* Fight the evildoers
2:216* Fighting is obligatory for you
2:217-18* don't give up your faith or you'll burn in hell, and keep fighting


Oh and the unbelievers are screwed because if you managed to be a bit skeptic about the whole god thing, you're screwed.
2:258
2:264
2:270
2:272

* Some of the nice ones. You can hardly turn a page without finding something or another to justify anger or hatred against even innocent people who may be misguided in their faith.

3:5*
3:10
3:12*
3:19*
3:28*
3:118*
3:140*
3:149-151*
3:156*
3:169
3:178*
3:195-96*

* not only can you find reason enough to hate the infidel, you can be sure that they will drag you back to unbelief and you will return headlong to perdition.... God seems vengeful enough that he can't decide whether infidels should die a humiliating but swift death or whether they should live long enough to accumulate more sins so that their eternal torture is even worse.....

I'm not going further in... anyone reading the book can find more.

[islamirama]

In Islamic terms there are no negative connotations for a Muslim tyrant ruling over any land declared an Islamic state. Islamic law is absolute.

heresy = death, apostasy = death,

I'm not going further in... anyone reading the book can find more.

Yes, please don't go any further. Thanks for sharing that from whatever islamphobe anti-islam site you pulled it out of. Not only many of you are ignorant in knowledge and lack proper understanding of but also on purpose misquote and take verses out of context to prove your twisted points which when confronted one by one makes you run back under the table like a dog with it's tale between his legs.

[جوري]

heresy = death, apostasy = death,

.

So what? really so what?
in the united states the penalty for treason is death. Do read of Julius and Ethyl Rosenberg! islam isn't just a religion it is a state law and an entire govt. ststem.. if you wanted to apostate and keep it to yourself, I don't see how anyone can know? if you wanted to apostate and go all jingle-jangle then prepare to suffer the consequence for treason against the state!

Many people apostated during the time of the prophet and were granted respite, the laws are really instated for those who embraced Islam then decided to apostate to create a state of unrest..

That is the penalty for treason even in the so-called civilized world... The measures aren't different.. they just slap a different label on it oh free thinker!

cheers

[Nerd]

Refer to this book on the matter of apostasy "Freedom of religion and apostasy in Islam"

"This book argues that the law of apostasy and its punishment by death in Islamic law is untenable in the modern period. Apostasy conflicts with a variety of foundation texts of Islam and with the current ethos of human rights, in particular the freedom to choose one's religion. Demonstrating the early development of the law of apostasy as largely a religio-political tool, the authors show the diversity of opinion among early Muslims on the punishment, highlighting the substantial ambiguities about what constitutes apostasy, the problematic nature of some of the key textual evidence on which the punishment of apostasy is based, and the neglect of a vast amount of clear Qur'anic texts in favour of freedom of religion in the construction of the law of apostasy.

Examining the significant challenges the punishment of apostasy faces in the modern period inside and outside Muslim communities - exploring in particular how apostasy and its punishment is dealt with in a multi-religious Muslim majority country, Malaysia, and the challenges and difficulties it faces there - the authors discuss arguments by prominent Muslims today for an absolute freedom of religion and for discarding the punishment of apostasy"

[Malaikah]

I'm not going further in...

Thank God for that! I think you have insulted enough people with your sheer ignorance and also embarrassed yourself enough for one thread, hey?

[tetsujin]

Oops, I referenced a book. It happens to be the one most referenced on this website. I have not embarrassed anyone unless it's those who have not read those verses themselves with an open mind.

Let me guess, you read those verses thinking, "Hey, they probably deserve it. How dare they not conform they're ideologies to what we believe".


In the US, you are free to think as you please so long as your actions do not infringe on the fundamentals rights of another. Do you understand how fundamental rights are determined? Certain things you cannot change about yourself; age, gender, ethnicity, race, sexual orientation (debatable on religious forums). There are certain things you can; nationality, political and social ideologies, religion, etc.... You cannot discriminate against a person or people based on the fundamental things they have no control over, unless those people are infringing on the rights of others based on those fundamental traits.

It is not treason if you have your own nationality revoked and declare that you are not a member of that nation or society. Treason is the willful betrayal of one's loyalty and involves hypocrisy as it is intended to deceive a nation or state while aiding its enemies. The nation or state does not own or govern every single thought it's people are allowed to have, much less those that have openly declared that their allegiance lies elsewhere. They simple have an interest in protecting the fundamental rights of their citizens, even if it means allowing you as a believer to practice whatever religion you want to in a peaceful manner.

Execution for a thought crime is justifiable in only religious terms. It is not only Islam that condones it, so I'm not picking on Islam.



All the best wishes,




Faysal

[AvarAllahNoor]

Maybe the Sikhs should be given an autonomous province of Khalistan under the Islamic Caliphate...

Where do i vote?? :D

Although, I'd want that in writing lol

[tetsujin]

Where do i vote?? :D

Although, I'd want that in writing lol

Only if there's an autonomous christian, jewish, buddhist, atheist, etc... state as well....

[AvarAllahNoor]

Only if there's an autonomous christian, jewish, buddhist, atheist, etc... state as well....

Within Khalistan?

[tetsujin]

Within Khalistan?

Is that bad?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^ I think the Sikhs have waited long enough for their own state...they do deserve it.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Is that bad?

We once ruled with the majority being Muslim without any trouble. It was all amicable. So they'd be no trouble accomodating those that you mentioned. :statisfie

[AvarAllahNoor]

^^ I think the Sikhs have waited long enough for their own state...they do deserve it.

Indeed we do. Allah knows when the time is to grant us it. :)

I'd rep you, but it won't let me at the moment!

[tetsujin]

So, what's special about khallistan? Any cool theme parks?

[AvarAllahNoor]

So, what's special about khallistan? Any cool theme parks?

It don't get anymore exciting than seeing Sikhs with long beards and waving ceremonial swords! Reciting the name of God! It's a thrilling ride... :D

[tetsujin]

It don't get anymore exciting than seeing Sikhs with long beards and waving ceremonial swords! Reciting the name of God! It's a thrilling ride... :D

uhmm....


Is there ice cream?

Can I get a haircut?

Not at the same time.

[AvarAllahNoor]

uhmm....


Is there ice cream?

Can I get a haircut?

Not at the same time.

Of course!

I'd even cut it for you if you so wish :D

[islamirama]

^^ I think the Sikhs have waited long enough for their own state...they do deserve it.

yea i rather have kalistan over hindustan any day. At least Muslims and christians will be able to live in peace under their rule compared to what they are facing today with those hindu extremists.

[AvarAllahNoor]

yea i rather have kalistan over hindustan any day. At least Muslims and christians will be able to live in peace under their rule compared to what they are facing today with those hindu extremists.

Apart from a small glitch during the Moghul times, yes it's fair to say Sikhs, Muslims and Hindus lived quite peacefully during the Reign of Mahraaja Ranjit Singh. Today, it's the Hindus we have to watchout for, trying to eradicate other religions as they did with Buddhism many years ago!

[north_malaysian]

Today, it's the Hindus we have to watchout for, trying to eradicate other religions as they did with Buddhism many years ago!

Buddhism? Are you talking about Asoka's period?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Buddhism? Are you talking about Asoka's period?

Buddhism did begin in India, and it was eradicated by the Brahmins (Hindu Priests) as they feared it taking over Hindusim, and as we know Hindusim is caste based and Buddhism isn't. Hence them spreading to Tibet.

[north_malaysian]

Buddhism did begin in India, and it was eradicated by the Brahmins (Hindu Priests) as they feared it taking over Hindusim, and as we know Hindusim is caste based and Buddhism isn't. Hence them spreading to Tibet.

Currently there are lots of low caste Hindus converted to Buddhism right? Especially among the Marathis.

How about those Gujjars who protested days ago? Are they Hindus?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Currently there are lots of low caste Hindus converted to Buddhism right? Especially among the Marathis.

How about those Gujjars who protested days ago? Are they Hindus?

Yes, Ambedekar and his millions of followers had asked the Akali Dal (Sikh org) that they all wanted to convert to Sikhism, but the Akalis said that Sikhismwas to be nutured from within, and a large conversion just so they could sever the ties of low castes from Hinduism was not appropritate. Plus they would bring their Hindu beliefs with them polluting the true essence of Sikhism. Which would cause more breakaway groups and cults sects and whatnot.

Theu Gujjars, I think could be Hindu or Muslim, i'm not too sure what that was all about. But they seem to have Sikh backing. Plus yesterday Kashmiri Syed Ali Shah Geelani and Sikh orgs are working togetehr against the indian goverment so they can obtain freedom.

[Fishman]

Buddhism? Are you talking about Asoka's period?

:sl:
Asoka was a Bhuddist. He killed millions of people and conquered an empire stretching from Afganistan to the Deccan traps, but then felt sick and guilty for all the destruction he caused. So he threw away his sword, gave up Hinduism and became a Bhuddist. He then focused all his energies on building up his society and improving people's lives all over the empire.

He is also a leader in Civ. He's the only good Indian leader, as Gandhi is rubbish and just gets pwned all the time because he runs pacifism. He couldn't stop an invasion even if he wanted to. Asoka starts with Organised and Spiritual traits, allowing him to use the war civics to train an army without anarchy, then use his organised skills to build courthouses quickly in the conquered lands.
:w:

[islamirama]

Currently there are lots of low caste Hindus converted to Buddhism right? Especially among the Marathis.

How about those Gujjars who protested days ago? Are they Hindus?

I recall reading a news article few years back of how this one whole village had turned Muslims. It was a village of low caste hindus who were just sick and tired and fed up being the abused by the upper castes and could not find that equality and human dignity they deserved. It created a great panic among the hindus, they fear a lot when these low castes start turning Musilm so they can be treated like humans then be regarded as "untouchables" by the hindus and take their crap.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^ I read something similar to that. Also they made it very hard for them to revert to Islam. They had to get permission. But they took advantage of that and those wanted to accept Islam, couldnt. So I'm guessing they took shahada secretly. I think though, this was sri lanka. Not sure.

[north_malaysian]

I recall reading a news article few years back of how this one whole village had turned Muslims. It was a village of low caste hindus who were just sick and tired and fed up being the abused by the upper castes and could not find that equality and human dignity they deserved. It created a great panic among the hindus, they fear a lot when these low castes start turning Musilm so they can be treated like humans then be regarded as "untouchables" by the hindus and take their crap.

I've read reports years ago about some Hindu villages in Tamil Nadu became Muslim villages beause they didnt like the caste system...

If there are no terrorist groups like Shiv Sena or RSS... I think that 80% of Hindus would leave Hinduism...

[AvarAllahNoor]

I've read reports years ago about some Hindu villages in Tamil Nadu became Muslim villages beause they didnt like the caste system...

If there are no terrorist groups like Shiv Sena or RSS... I think that 80% of Hindus would leave Hinduism...

Or they'd follow the Hinduism that has no Idol worship. As this was the way it once was. They beleived in one God Brahma. Now they have 130 million forms of that one God! :raging:

[Amadeus85]

I've read reports years ago about some Hindu villages in Tamil Nadu became Muslim villages beause they didnt like the caste system...

If there are no terrorist groups like Shiv Sena or RSS... I think that 80% of Hindus would leave Hinduism...

Hindutva organizations appeared in XX-th century,and before this majority of hindus didnt leave their religion...

[islamirama]

Or they'd follow the Hinduism that has no Idol worship. As this was the way it once was. They beleived in one God Brahma. Now they have 130 million forms of that one God! :raging:

Islam talks about a nation of people who will deny they have a prophet. It is the nation of Noah that will say they didn't have a Prophet sent to them. I have this article that says it is the hindu race, probably explains how the bagvad gita mentions the coming of Mohammad among other things mentioned also in other revealed texts. its very interesting reading....

[Muezzin]

The thread has gone really far off-topic. Like, Emerald City far.

Closed.