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BeefGrass
05-24-2008, 03:30 AM
World affairs seem to constantly be scarred by unnecessary warfare between the last century and now. Perhaps there is a time when violence is necessary, but what do you think about in the current state of affairs?

I found this short video clip to be very provocative...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OwApfnvSmz4
...and it makes me think that there needs to be more efforts to find a peaceful solution to foreign disputes.
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Keltoi
05-25-2008, 05:01 PM
Historically, this is the most stable era in world history. There is indeed a large amount of violence today, but in context this is far from the most violent period.
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S1aveofA11ah
05-26-2008, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Historically, this is the most stable era in world history. There is indeed a large amount of violence today, but in context this is far from the most violent period.
What counts is the principle at heart not just some peaks/troughs being analysed over time. Wrong is wrong and death is death. Islam teaches (from its holy book the Qur'an) that killing one human life is like killing all of mankind. The last 200 years has seen the West kill something like 0.5 billion people worldwide - extermination of whole civilizations like the Red Indians, aborigines etc. If you think that looking at this little peak or 'good time in comparison to other times' is worthwhile then its a short-lived happiness as the overall line shows a world where death/violence is on the up.
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Keltoi
05-26-2008, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by S1aveofA11ah
What counts is the principle at heart not just some peaks/troughs being analysed over time. Wrong is wrong and death is death. Islam teaches (from its holy book the Qur'an) that killing one human life is like killing all of mankind. The last 200 years has seen the West kill something like 0.5 billion people worldwide - extermination of whole civilizations like the Red Indians, aborigines etc. If you think that looking at this little peak or 'good time in comparison to other times' is worthwhile then its a short-lived happiness as the overall line shows a world where death/violence is on the up.
So this thread was really about the evils of the West? Should have assumed that.
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S1aveofA11ah
05-26-2008, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
So this thread was really about the evils of the West? Should have assumed that.
The original poster said:

"World affairs seem to constantly be scarred by unnecessary warfare between the last century and now. Perhaps there is a time when violence is necessary, but what do you think about in the current state of affairs?"

Currently Keltoi the West has launched two major invasions on two countries and killed a lot of civilians. Some say up to 1 million died in Iraq. This isn't something that one can brush under the carpet. The excuse was weapons of mass destruction which turned out to be a lie. I agree with you in all fairness that other countries (i.e. not in the West) do and have done similar evils. Lets just not make a mistake and presume the West is free of evils.
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Keltoi
05-26-2008, 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by S1aveofA11ah
The original poster said:

"World affairs seem to constantly be scarred by unnecessary warfare between the last century and now. Perhaps there is a time when violence is necessary, but what do you think about in the current state of affairs?"

Currently Keltoi the West has launched two major invasions on two countries and killed a lot of civilians. Some say up to 1 million died in Iraq. This isn't something that one can brush under the carpet. The excuse was weapons of mass destruction which turned out to be a lie. I agree with you in all fairness that other countries (i.e. not in the West) do and have done similar evils. Lets just not make a mistake and presume the West is free of evils.
Who said the West was free of "evils"? If you want to truly look at the current state of violence in the world, the hot spots are in Africa. Sudan, Rwanda, Congo, etc as examples. When I say "current" I'm not referring to the past five years...that would be conveniently shortsighted.
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Amadeus85
05-26-2008, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Who said the West was free of "evils"? If you want to truly look at the current state of violence in the world, the hot spots are in Africa. Sudan, Rwanda, Congo, etc as examples. When I say "current" I'm not referring to the past five years...that would be conveniently shortsighted.
Keltoi, didnt you notice that most of these west haters lives in west actually. :D
They must suffer so much living in Satan's land. Poor them. I really feel sorry.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-26-2008, 09:51 PM
Don't feel sorry for us Aaron, we need not your useless sympathy. We have Allah and Islam, so nothing from you would be of any use. We feel sorry for people like you who are blind by heart and mind. No one personally made fun of you, so I don't see why you are.
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Amadeus85
05-26-2008, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
Don't feel sorry for us Aaron, we need not your useless sympathy. We have Allah and Islam, so nothing from you would be of any use. We feel sorry for people like you who are blind by heart and mind. No one personally made fun of you, so I don't see why you are.
So for you it is normal that great majority of these members cursing Europe/USA/ still lives, works, eats and sleeps in Europe/USA? I mean, for example I dont like communists and I would never want to live in Cuba or China or North Korea. Thats why I see it as strange.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-26-2008, 11:19 PM
I'm not talking about that. Unfortunately some of didnt "choose" to be here. Our parents came here, not us, cuz they figured they'd live a better life. Truth is, there is no real better life anywhere I think. I hate to see my dad work day and night without days off. He doesnt take days off cuz we need the money. So really, problems are everywhere. Gas prices have gone up so much. Its hard lately to pay for my semester classes and then I gotta commute to uni. I dont thnk its easy anywhere. My dads been working like that for 20 or so years.
Anyways, I was just really talking about your statement about feeling sorry for us. Don't, we don't need it.

Peace
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Air Jordan
05-26-2008, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
So this thread was really about the evils of the West? Should have assumed that.
Indeed you should have. And don't go spoiling all the fun with historical references, either. :hiding:
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-27-2008, 12:20 AM
Yea assume it. It's a habit for you guys >.<
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------
05-27-2008, 11:32 AM
:salamext:

^ :lol: ;D
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S1aveofA11ah
05-27-2008, 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Keltoi, didnt you notice that most of these west haters lives in west actually. :D
They must suffer so much living in Satan's land. Poor them. I really feel sorry.
Who said I hate the West?. Don't put words in my mouth Aaron85 and be sarcastic. I love parts of the West and dislike other parts, like I assume most people.
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Air Jordan
05-27-2008, 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
Yea assume it. It's a habit for you guys >.<
It's a universal trait of the brain (well, almost universal). It's called pattern recogniztion.
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Air Jordan
05-27-2008, 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by S1aveofA11ah
The original poster said:


Currently Keltoi the West has launched two major invasions on two countries and killed a lot of civilians. Some say up to 1 million died in Iraq. This isn't something that one can brush under the carpet..
Yes..some say that don't they. It is not true but they say it. Nothing is getting "brushed under the carpet", either, except perhaps the nasty little secret of how much the Sunni hate the Shia.



The excuse was weapons of mass destruction which turned out to be a lie. I agree with you in all fairness that other countries (i.e. not in the West) do and have done similar evils. Lets just not make a mistake and presume the West is free of evils.
That was not an "excuse", it was a "reason". That is a big difference. And the only "lie" was when Hussein pretended to retain his WMD's. I suspect the next tinpot won't make that mistake, will he.

The word "lie" means the willful and knowing telling of a falsehood. Can we get that straight please? I know it seems pedantic but words really do mean things.

Is the West "free of evils"? Of course not. Do most of the Muslim posters on this forum live in the West? Curiously, they do.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-27-2008, 11:19 PM
Yea but most people tend to do it more...
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Air Jordan
05-27-2008, 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
Yea but most people like yourselves tend to do it more...
Help me to understand, then. "People like" {us} "tend to" {make assumptions or generalize} "more"?

Do you not find that comment ironic? I don't really know what to say. One need only review the titles of threads. 3 of 4 are likely to be "West-bashing" or Israel-bashing. With certain posters it is 100% guranteed. :D There is the occaisional introspective thread but it usually turns into a bash the moderate party. :)
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-28-2008, 12:13 AM
See why i edited it? Can't you leave it edited? I realized I was talking to the wrong person...jeez.
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Air Jordan
05-28-2008, 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
See why i edited it? Can't you leave it edited? I realized I was talking to the wrong person...jeez.
Sorry, you lost me. BTW, in some circles "jeez" is impolite as it is slang for "Jesus". :)
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Eric H
05-28-2008, 04:30 AM
Greetings and peace be with you, BeefGrass; thanks for the explosive message at the end of the video.

If we keep fighting- everyones loses.

In the spirit of praying for peace on this forum and peace on Earth.

Eric
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S1aveofA11ah
05-28-2008, 11:27 AM
Originally Posted by Air Jordan
Yes..some say that don't they. It is not true but they say it. Nothing is getting "brushed under the carpet", either, except perhaps the nasty little secret of how much the Sunni hate the Shia.

What nasty little secret?. Are you crazy? - the long Iran/Iraq war was all about Shia vs. Sunni. I think it lasted 10+ years. The media was constantly reporting Shia vs. Sunni. Maybe you never picked up the news then?. The whole world knows they don't like each other.



That was not an "excuse", it was a "reason". That is a big difference. And the only "lie" was when Hussein pretended to retain his WMD's. I suspect the next tinpot won't make that mistake, will he.

The word "lie" means the willful and knowing telling of a falsehood. Can we get that straight please? I know it seems pedantic but words really do mean things.


No - if it was a reason it would have been based on hard facts i.e. proof of WMD. There were not any. There were not any to begin with.


Is the West "free of evils"? Of course not. Do most of the Muslim posters on this forum live in the West? Curiously, they do.
So what if they do live in the West. Highlight me ONE poster on this forum who is a true Muslim (not some bogus poster/s or demented/extremist Muslims) who HATES the WHOLE West and makes claims like 'The West is Evil' or 'The West is the Big Satan'. In fact according to you MOST of them are like that!!. Where are they - who are they - when have they said such things?. You seem to know them very well - please show me this long list of names as I'm quite interested.

And if you can come up with evidence then it shows only that THOSE posters are wrong in their thinking about hating the WHOLE West as opposed to some of the evils of the West.
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Air Jordan
05-28-2008, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by S1aveofA11ah
So what if they do live in the West. Highlight me ONE poster on this forum who is a true Muslim (not some bogus poster/s or demented/extremist Muslims) who HATES the WHOLE West and makes claims like 'The West is Evil' or 'The West is the Big Satan'. In fact according to you MOST of them are like that!!. Where are they - who are they - when have they said such things?. You seem to know them very well - please show me this long list of names as I'm quite interested.

And if you can come up with evidence then it shows only that THOSE posters are wrong in their thinking about hating the WHOLE West as opposed to some of the evils of the West.
You are attributing to me the use of absolutes which I did not use. I said most of the threads either start with a West-bashing theme or evolve in that direction.

As for names. I think not. I already have 15 "demerits" for using mysterious "offensive language" and I am not going to violate a clearly stated forum policy. :D

BTW...how am I supposed to know who a "true Muslim" is? Why don't you tell me who the "bogus Muslims" are then I can ignore them.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-28-2008, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by Air Jordan
Sorry, you lost me. BTW, in some circles "jeez" is impolite as it is slang for "Jesus". :)

I dont use like it that. I use my own meaning....I'll use "sheesh" just for u.
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Air Jordan
05-28-2008, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
I dont use like it that. I use my own meaning....I'll use "sheesh" just for u.
Fair enough. Doesn't really bother me anyway. I think you would be safe with "sheesh" :)
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