Jesus and Muhammad

[Umar001]

As Salam Alaykum,

I thought I'd stick this in the Da'wah section but then I thought maybe here would be better, if the mods would like to change the place feel free to do so and sorry.

I was wondering if it was possible to compile teachings attributed to Jesus and teachings attributed to Muhammad which are parralel, would yall help??

[ASeeker]

The only authoritative source for the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth is the New Testament of the Christian Bible. This is because it was written by the community founded by Jesus and included amongst its members disciples, friends and relatives of Jesus himself. There were other fake gospels, pseudographs and heretical documents written at a later time which lacked apostolic authority and were rejected by the early church as utterly worthless and bogus.

Islam must speak for itself about the character 'Isa' who appears in Islamic texts. I do not see any good reason for confusing Jesus with 'Isa'. It is an incredible claim to suppose that anyone in Mecca, more than seven centuries after the real Jesus, could know anything about him unknown to his disciples, friends and relatives.

[ASeeker]

I am pleased to say that everything known about the teachings of 'Muhammad' is entirely dependent upon Islamic texts. The oral and literary traditions of the Jews and Christians make no reference whatsoever to Muhammad, Mecca or Islam.

I seriously doubt that Mecca existed when the sacred texts of the Jews and Christians were written.

[YusufNoor]

As Salam Alaykum,

I thought I'd stick this in the Da'wah section but then I thought maybe here would be better, if the mods would like to change the place feel free to do so and sorry.

I was wondering if it was possible to compile teachings attributed to Jesus and teachings attributed to Muhammad which are parralel, would yall help??

:sl:

i think that this kind of thread will be nearly impossible to do hear as waaaaay too many of the kuffar will post stuff simply arguing or debating the Truth! you will need a heavy hand at moderating!

but first from Jesus/Isa ibn Marriam:

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered to him, That the first commandment of all is, Hear thou, Israel, thy Lord God is one God;

from Islam:

There is no god but Allah, and we worship alone and without partners

as for:

The only authoritative source for the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth is the New Testament of the Christian Bible. This is because it was written by the community founded by Jesus

NO-ONE knows for certain who wrote ANY of the New Testament!

the Qur'an, however, was transmitted to the Prophet Muhammad[pbuh] by the Angel Gibreel[pbuh]; after his[pbuh] death, one of his father-in-laws, Omar ibn Al Kitaab[ra] convinced one of his[pbuh] other father-in-laws, Kalipha Abu Bakr As Siddiq[ra] to order that it be put together in book form. this was completed under the charge the Prophet's[pbuh] personal secretary, Zaid ibn Thaabit[ra]! during the reign of one of the Prophets[pbuh] sons-in-law, Uthman ibn Affan, vowel marks were added to insure proper pronunciation. 2 copies of these are still in existence!

this is amusing:

I am pleased to say that everything known about the teachings of 'Muhammad' is entirely dependent upon Islamic texts.

a rebuttal would be:

I am pleased to say that everything known about the "Christian version" of Jesus/Isa ibn Marriam[pbuh] is entirely dependent upon Christian texts; who's authors appear to be unknown.

:w:

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Keltoi]

The best way to do this is probably by using the Sermon on the Mount and comparing that to what is attributed to Muhammed in the Qu'ran. Sounds like a little work would be involved though. :)

[جوري]

The only authoritative source for the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth is the New Testament of the Christian Bible. This is because it was written by the community founded by Jesus and included amongst its members disciples, friends and relatives of Jesus himself. There were other fake gospels, pseudographs and heretical documents written at a later time which lacked apostolic authority and were rejected by the early church as utterly worthless and bogus.

What does NT mean? according to the Jews, there is no NT. and Your man/God Jesus did indeed abrogate the laws of the OT and divided himself by three, prayed to himself, accursed the earth he created when he couldn't find a tree to bear fruit, and broke a really huge commandement or two, by foresaking himself on the cross. Maybe you should have taken a closer look at the so-called bogus bibles, perhaps they would loan your religion more sense?

Islam must speak for itself about the character 'Isa' who appears in Islamic texts. I do not see any good reason for confusing Jesus with 'Isa'. It is an incredible claim to suppose that anyone in Mecca, more than seven centuries after the real Jesus, could know anything about him unknown to his disciples, friends and relatives.

Actually it is christianity that must stand by itself, No people of the 'book'--Mandeans, Jews, Sabeans, Muslims, or any of the messengers, with or without books recognize a man God or believe in him including Jesus himself... so you go on deluding yourself with your Greek mythology is the way to go..

cheers

[mkh4JC]

Actually it is christianity that must stand by itself, No people of the 'book'--Mandeans, Jews, Sabeans, Muslims, or any of the messengers, with or without books recognize a man God or believe in him including Jesus himself... so you go on deluding yourself with your Greek mythology is the way to go..

cheers

The reason the Jews as a whole don't accept Jesus as their Messiah is because God has largely placed a veil over their eyes. I say largely because God has still drew some Jewish people to Christ, ie Messianic Torah Judaism. But the Jews will come to realize that Christ is the Messiah en masse after the rapture of the church and during the seven year tribulation, when God's focus will shift back to the Jewish people and away from the Gentiles. Here's some scriptures to consider:

'I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

And if by grace, then it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) until this day.

And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

Let their eyes be darkened that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.


Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

...

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

...

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Romans: 11: 1-12, 15, 25-27.

Also, consider this scripture which is in the Old Testament:

"I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.'

Zechariah: 12:10

[جوري]

They don't follow Jesus simply because the concept you have of 'God' is at odds with monotheism, and doesn't fit with anyone's else's idea of monotheism, least of which rational human beings.
There will be no rapture, there is nothing super natural about the second coming of christ. He will come to rule with what God governed (Islamic monotheism) rule for 40 yrs and die like men. Christianity would do slightly better if it let go of all the fairy tales really.. no need to see bleeding statues of flying ghosts of the virgin.. because frankly everything 'natural' is by itself extraordinary and doesn't need silliness to loan it credence.. You end up doing opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.

I don't consider 'scriptures' where the very foundation is at variance with reason. I can be entranced by a mid summer's night's dream just the same, but puck will always remain a fictional folkloric creature --

It is interesting to note though, you think God put a veil through the Jew's heads yet don't mind them having their own illegal state and pouring billions into their pockets.

cheers

[mkh4JC]

They don't follow Jesus simply because the concept you have of 'God' is at odds with monotheism, and doesn't fit with anyone's else's idea of monotheism, least of which rational human beings.

Well, it stands to reason that there would be things about God that surpass our understanding, and the Trinity is one of them. Though you can still come to some kind of understanding, as we ourselves are made in the image and likeness of God, and as we are triune in nature and are still one, so too is he.

Christianity would do slightly better if it let go of all the fairy tales really.. no need to see bleeding statues of flying ghosts of the virgin..

Well, here we agree. I don't subscribe to Roman bondage.

It is interesting to note though, you think God put a veil through the Jew's heads yet don't mind them having their own illegal state and pouring billions into their pockets.
cheers

Is God putting a veil largely over the Jewish people's eyes any different to how Allah leads some astray?

[جوري]

Well, it stands to reason that there would be things about God that surpass our understanding, and the Trinity is one of them. Though you can still come to some kind of understanding, as we ourselves are made in the image and likeness of God, and as we are triune in nature and are still one, so too is he.

God is indeed beyond comprehension, what Christianity has done, was take what is incomprehensible and turn him into a very low common denominator. Anthropomorphism reduces God to that which is sold next to bratz dolls at wallmart or Jesus super star at Borders (made in china)..

There is nothing about us that is the image of God.

Qul hū Allāhu ahad Allāhu al-ṣamad lam yalid wa-lam yulad wa-lam yakun lahu kufūwan aḥad [ Qur’an 112]

Translation: Say: God the one, God the eternal, He did not beget and was not begotten. And there is none like unto Him.

I have no desire to worship a man with weaknesses like the rest of humanity!

Well, here we agree. I don't subscribe to Roman bondage.

It really doesn't matter whether you have a million saint along with Jesus as your God.. it is all pretty much the same delusion!

Is God putting a veil largely over the Jewish people's eyes any different to how Allah leads some astray?

Allah SWT leads astray those who have willed themselves to stray

(8:22) Verily, the vilest of all creatures in the sight of God are those deaf, those dumb ones who do not use their reason. (23) For, if God had seen any good in them, He would certainly have made them hear: but [as it is,] even if He had made them hear, they would surely have turned away in their obstinacy.



there free will has sealed their fate!
and I hope you pay close attention to the word (reason) for to reason is man's greatest gift.. yet some throw it away in favor of prevarications

cheers

[Malaikah]

It is an incredible claim to suppose that anyone in Mecca, more than seven centuries after the real Jesus, could know anything about him unknown to his disciples, friends and relatives.

What? Last time I checked Christians believe in an All-knowing, All-Powerful God.

You telling me God can't inform a man (i.e. the Prophet Muhammad pbuh) about Jesus' life??

[mkh4JC]

God is indeed beyond comprehension, what Christianity has done, was take something beyond comprehension and turned him into a very low common denominator. Anthropomorphism reduces God to be sold next to bratz dolls at wallmart or Jesus super star at Borders..

There is nothing about us that is the image of God. Qul hū Allāhu ahad Allāhu al-ṣamad lam yalid wa-lam yulad wa-lam yakun lahu kufūwan aḥad [Complete Qur’an 112]

Translation: Say: God the one, God the eternal, He did not beget and was not begotten. And there is none like unto Him.

I have no desire to worship a man with weakness like the rest of humanity!

The Bible says that henceforth we know Jesus Christ not after the flesh.

It really doesn't matter whether you have a million saint along with Jesus as your God.. it is all pretty much the same delusion!

So the hundreds of millions of people who have accepted Christ, past, present, and future, who all found freedom from sin by doing so (no matter what kind of past they may have) are living a delusion?

'Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.'

John 8: 34-36.

'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound.

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans: 6: 1-2

'Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destory the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.'

I John 3: 7-9

'All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

We know that whosever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.'

I John 5: 17-19.

Jesus Christ is the cure for sin nature. Everything else just masks it.

Allah SWT leads astray those who have willed themselves to stray

(8:22) Verily, the vilest of all creatures in the sight of God are those deaf, those dumb ones who do not use their reason. (23) For, if God had seen any good in them, He would certainly have made them hear: but [as it is,] even if He had made them hear, they would surely have turned away in their obstinacy.



there free will has sealed their fate!
and I hope you pay close attention to the word (reason) for to reason is man's greatest gift.. yet some throw it away in favor of prevarications

cheers

The Bible teaches us as Christians to critically examine everything, and to hold on to the good (1 Thessalonians 5: 21). In terms of the message of the Quran, I don't see how, for instance, an almighty, all knowing Creator would begin to reveal himself to mankind in the Old Testament and allow it to become corrupted, as if he doesn't have the power to stop it.

[جوري]

The Bible says that henceforth we know Jesus Christ not after the flesh.

?

So the hundreds of millions of people who have accepted Christ, past, present, and future, who all found freedom from sin by doing so (no matter what kind of past they may have) are living a delusion?

There were early pious (monotheist) Christians as mentioned in suret Al-kahf # 18
otherwise the logical response is, millions of jews past and present are living in delusion? I think that can pretty much apply to any religion. The crux of your argument shouldn't be based on number, rather logic?

'Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

wise words, how come most christian don't live by them??

And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.'

John 8: 34-36.

'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound.

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans: 6: 1-2

'Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destory the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.'

I John 3: 7-9

'All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

We know that whosever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.'

I John 5: 17-19.

Jesus Christ is the cure for sin nature. Everything else just masks it.

lol.. why do you keep quoting me those long paragraphs and loan them your own exegesis? I mean honestly what are you hoping for? There is no going back to the darkness of the middle ages..

2: 256

THERE SHALL BE no coercion in matters of faith.* Distinct has now become the right way from [the way of] error: hence, he who rejects the powers of evil** and believes in God has indeed taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way: for God is all-hearing, all-knowing.



does that do anything for you? ' The right way is indeed distinct from error'

The Bible teaches us as Christians to critically examine everything, and to hold on to the good (1 Thessalonians 5: 21). In terms of the message of the Quran, I don't see how, for instance, an almighty, all knowing Creator would begin to reveal himself to mankind in the Old Testament and allow it to become corrupted, as if he doesn't have the power to stop it.

I don't believe Christians examine anything closely -- it is one of the reasons they are in such bad shape, most of them are non adherents and those of them that adhere are nut jobs.

Men corrupt.. God doesn't corrupt..
and Al7mdlilah, the Quran is preserved as the final testament. There is no room for innovations. Everything from politics, economics, social structure, inheritance, Jurisprudence is covered and preserved with Islam.. you want to spend your time being a christian, you are most welcome to it, but I promise you, you cutting and pasting from the book has no impact on me, I attended catholic school, and proud to say I used to get the highest grades in religion class.. I am not wowed by your scriptures. they are wrought with error and the history of Christendom has been pretty ****ing, that I'd think anyone would have be completely out of their wits to subscribe to that... I certainly wouldn't want to approach God with an ounce of doubt...

you'll excuse me I still need to mend my other thread and then I'd like to get to bed...


cheers

[mkh4JC]

?
There were early pious (monotheist) Christians as mentioned in suret Al-kahf # 18
otherwise the logical response is, millions of jews past and present are living in delusion? I think that can pretty much apply to any religion. The crux of your argument shouldn't be based on number, rather logic?

wise words, how come most christian don't live by them??

Because most people only say they are or think they are Christian, and don't have an ounce of Jesus.

lol.. why do you keep quoting me those long paragraphs and loan them your own exegesis? I mean honestly what are you hoping for? There is no going back to the darkness of the middle ages..

I'm just trying to open your eyes to the reality of what a Christian really is.

2: 256

THERE SHALL BE no coercion in matters of faith.* Distinct has now become the right way from [the way of] error: hence, he who rejects the powers of evil** and believes in God has indeed taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way: for God is all-hearing, all-knowing.



does that do anything for you? ' The right way is indeed distinct from error'

No one is trying to force you to do anything, and in fact I can't do that. What I am trying to do is show you something.

I don't believe Christians examine anything closely -- it is one of the reasons they are in such bad shape, most of them are non adherents and those of them that adhere are nut jobs.



Men corrupt.. God doesn't corrupt..
and Al7mdlilah, the Quran is preserved as the final testament. There is no room for innovations. Everything from politics, economics, social structure, inheritance, Jurisprudence is covered and preserved with Islam.. you want to spend your time being a christian, you are most welcome to it, but I promise you, you cutting and pasting from the book has no impact on me, I attended catholic school, and proud to say I used to get the highest grades in religion class.. I am not wowed by your scriptures. they are wrought with error and the history of Christendom has been pretty ****ing, that I'd think anyone would have be completely out of their wits to subscribe to that... I certainly wouldn't want to approach God with an ounce of doubt...

As I've already outlined, just because someone calls themselves a Christian, goes to church on Sunday, or even was baptized, that doesn't make them so. Here's what Jesus said:

'Not everyone that sayeth unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.'

Matthew 7: 21

Jesus won't say, I knew you but you backslid. He will say he never knew them period. And these are people who are going around supposedly casting out devils. It all comes back to whether or not you are living a life that is pleasing in the sight of the Lord, a life that he enabled you to live because you came to him.

Also, Catholicism is not Christian. It is the biggest stumbling block to people accepting Christ though.

you'll excuse me I still need to mend my other thread and then I'd like to get to bed...


cheers

Good night.

[جوري]

Because most people only say they are or think they are Christian, and don't have an ounce of Jesus.

seems like your quarrels are then with Christians not Muslims

I'm just trying to open your eyes to the reality of what a Christian really is.

Christianity is quite obvious there is no enigma. Man/God with a mother and an alter ego.. what more needs to be said? If I have to accept that as the basis of my creed then I am lying to myself.

No one is trying to force you to do anything, and in fact I can't do that. What I am trying to do is show you something.

You can't do in a blog what years attending catholic school hasn't done, al7mdlilah I came out of it, learning all I needed about Christianity to know they are no different than the polytheists condemned for their lack of reason~

As I've already outlined, just because someone calls themselves a Christian, goes to church on Sunday, or even was baptized, that doesn't make them so. Here's what Jesus said:

'Not everyone that sayeth unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.'

Jesus won't say, I knew you but you backslid. He will say he never knew them period. And these are people who are going around supposedly casting out devils. It all comes back to whether or not you are living a life that is pleasing in the sight of the Lord, a life that he enabled you to live because you came to him.

Your judgment of fellow Christians isn't what is going to win me over.. to be quite frank, it just shows how many of you are astray.

Also, Catholicism is not Christian. It is the biggest stumbling block to people accepting Christ though.

well actually they claim to be older and better than the reformation, and on some level at least they are more organized, albeit their beliefs are more colorful than yours, at the basic unit, they share the most important thing with you (Man/God with mother and alter ego) -- it isn't Catholicism that is the stumbling block of Christianity it is the core of your belief!

Good night.

all the best

[Grace Seeker]

I was wondering if it was possible to compile teachings attributed to Jesus and teachings attributed to Muhammad which are parralel, would yall help??

I guess I'm going to be the wierd Christian in the group and say that I think this could be really interesting as well. I just want to clarify though.

You want the teachings attributed to Jesus (not Isa)? So we are talking about what you find record of regarding Jesus' teachings in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, and Revelation. Or are you talking about from some other sources?

The other question is what makes two passages parrallel? Is it enough that they touch on the same topic it, or do they need to show significant agreement?


Example:

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful,
Praise be to God,
The Cherisher and Sustainer of the World;
Most Gracious, most Merciful;
Master of the Day of Judgement.
Thee do we worship,
And Thine aid we seek.
Show us the straight way,
The way of those on whom
Thou has bestowed Thy Grace,
Those whose (portion)
Is not wrath,
And who go not astray.

and

Our Father Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy name.
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
And forgive us our debts,
As we also forgive our debtors;
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.

These passages are far from identical, but they do have very similar tones to them and a number of similar ideas expressed:
"Praise be to God/Thee do we worship" --- "Hallowed be Thy name"
"Thine aid we seek" --- "Give us this day our daily bread"
"Show us the straight way" --- "Thy will be done, on earth as in heaven/Lead us not into temptation"


But there are also aspects where they definitely are at odds with each other as well:
"In the name of God" followed by a list of attributes vs. "Our Father"
"those who (portion) is not wrath" vs. "forgive us our debts/deliver us from evil"


So, do we end up picking about passages to find parrellels in portions and forget that other parts of the same passage are perhaps even in opposition to each other, or do we only use those passages where the whole thought expressed is similar?

Is there any value in also highlighting where they are dissimilar?

[ASeeker]

"What does NT mean? according to the Jews, there is no NT."

Even Jews who do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah are not so idiotic as to question the existence of a document known as the New Testament. It is the primary source for information about the life and teaching of Jesus and was produced by the community of people who knew him.

Incidentally, the overwhelming majority of the first Christians were Jews and almost all of the New Testament was written by Jews. If Luke was not a Jew then he was the exception.

[جوري]

"What does NT mean? according to the Jews, there is no NT."

Even Jews who do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah are not so idiotic as to question the existence of a document known as the New Testament. It is the primary source for information about the life and teaching of Jesus and was produced by the community of people who knew him.

Incidentally, the overwhelming majority of the first Christians were Jews and almost all of the New Testament was written by Jews. If Luke was not a Jew then he was the exception.

There are no idiotic questions, i believe just idiotic people, I thank you for being a prime example of one.

Glad first Christians were Jews, considering Jesus was indeed sent to the Israelites

But he replied, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel." 15:24

http://bible.cc/matthew/15-24.htm


are you the lost sheep of bani Israel? as far as I am concerned Jesus was sent to a handful of those who have gone astray, NOT to all people!
So quite your complaining!
cheers

[mkh4JC]

There are no idiotic questions, i believe just idiotic people, I thank you for being a prime example of one.

Glad first Christians were Jews, considering Jesus was indeed sent to the Israelites

But he replied, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel." 15:24

http://bible.cc/matthew/15-24.htm


are you the lost sheep of bani Israel? as far as I am concerned Jesus was sent to a handful of those who have gone astray, NOT to all people!
So quite your complaining!
cheers

You misunderstand. If Jesus was only sent to the Jewish people, then what are we to glean from John 4, Jesus' exchange with the Samaritan woman? Or Matthew 8, when he heals the Roman centurion's servant?

This is what is in Acts:

'Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.' Acts 13: 46.

The Gospel was to be preached first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

[جوري]

You misunderstand. If Jesus was only sent to the Jewish people, then what are we to glean from John 4, Jesus' exchange with the Samaritan woman? Or Matthew 8, when he heals the Roman centurion's servant?

This is what is in Acts:

'Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.' Acts 13: 46.

The Gospel was to be preached first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Paul has no authority when it comes to Jesus ( he is the devil) you were warned against.. as for Barnabas, isn't it amazing that his so-called bible was banned for teaching that which is very opposite of saul's view?

I think any clear discerning mind can indeed see, Jesus was sent to a handful, who refused him anyway.. Prophet Mohammed PBUH was sent to man kind. period!

cheers

[Grace Seeker]

There are no idiotic questions, i believe just idiotic people, I thank you for being a prime example of one.

Glad first Christians were Jews, considering Jesus was indeed sent to the Israelites

But he replied, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel." 15:24

http://bible.cc/matthew/15-24.htm


are you the lost sheep of bani Israel? as far as I am concerned Jesus was sent to a handful of those who have gone astray, NOT to all people!
So quite your complaining!
cheers

Paul has no authority when it comes to Jesus ( he is the devil) you were warned against.. as for Barnabas, isn't it amazing that his so-called bible was banned for teaching that which is very opposite of saul's view?

I think any clear discerning mind can indeed see, Jesus was sent to a handful, who refused him anyway.. Prophet Mohammed PBUH was sent to man kind. period!

cheers

How about letting Jesus himself speak to the subject then?

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost." Luke 19:10

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:18-20)

"You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." (Acts 1:8)

[جوري]

How about letting Jesus himself speak to the subject then?

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost." Luke 19:10

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:18-20)

"You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." (Acts 1:8)

:haha:.. unfortunately for you we are not as undereducated as your typical bible belter.. be that as it may.. who gave Jesus the power? his alter ego?.. got to tell you it is a but of a difficult concept, when he states his father is greater than he, then he claims the father gave him all the power, yet the father forsake him shortly thereafter and he was all the same person.. hey if that works for you :sunny:

the other verse is also interesting, you'll receive power when the 'holy spirit' comes to you? How does a spirit come to you? isn't he a ghost? Perhaps again, something was lost to you in the translation, after all your God didn't speak English, and I doubt very much those are his words..

I'd go take care of the other thread too where you claimed no where in your bible is pork forbidden.. it seems, you have many holes in this vessel, it is about to give way from all the contradictions.

cheers

[Grace Seeker]

:haha:.. unfortunately for you we are not as undereducated as your typical bible belter.. be that as it may.. who gave Jesus the power? his alter ego?.. got to tell you it is a but of a difficult concept, when he states his father is greater than he, then he claims the father gave him all the power, yet the father forsake him shortly thereafter and he was all the same person.. hey if that works for you :sunny:

the other verse is also interesting, you'll receive power when the 'holy spirit' comes to you? How does a spirit come to you? isn't he a ghost?
cheers

How? About 50 days after the Passover there was a Jewish celebration called Pentecost. Jews would again assemble in Jerusalem for the celebration. The disciples were there as well.

Acts 2

1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

No, the Spirit is not a ghost in the since of Casper or something like that. Some of the older English versions use the term Holy Ghost instead of Holy Spirit, but by either term they are referring to the presence of God that indwells within a person.

[جوري]

How? About 50 days after the Passover there was a Jewish celebration called Pentecost. Jews would again assemble in Jerusalem for the celebration. The disciples were there as well.

except for the Jews it was/is a holy day celebrated on the sixth of Sivan to celebrate Moses receiving the Ten Commandments..
not the case for Christians.. they are there to celebrate eating pig

No, the Spirit is not a ghost in the since of Casper or something like that. Some of the older English versions use the term Holy Ghost instead of Holy Spirit, but by either term they are referring to the presence of God that indwells within a person.

oh so more like a monomania where gluttonous debauchees decide they love pig too much and so God possesses them so they can male allowances that he clearly proscribes?

[Grace Seeker]

except for the Jews it was/is a holy day celebrated on the sixth of Sivan to celebrate Moses receiving the Ten Commandments..
not the case for Christians.. they are there to celebrate eating pig



oh so more like a monomania where gluttonous debauchees decide they love pig too much and so God possesses them so they can male allowances that he clearly proscribes?

The disciples were in Jerusalem because they had been told by Jesus to stay there until they received this power. And thought Christians are today free to eat anything we want, that had not been revealed to the disciples yet.

But you are right God does indeed possess us. I am not my own. I belong to Jesus Christ. He doesn't do that to lead me into any sort of debaucherie, but into righteousness. Thus we are to avoid behaviors that he proscribes; however, it just so happens that eating pork is not among the proscribed behaviors. And ridiculing it, doesn't change that reality.

[جوري]

The disciples were in Jerusalem because they had been told by Jesus to stay there until they received this power. And thought Christians are today free to eat anything we want, that had not been revealed to the disciples yet.

aha

But you are right God does indeed possess us. I am not my own. I belong to Jesus Christ. He doesn't do that to lead me into any sort of debaucherie, but into righteousness. Thus we are to avoid behaviors that he proscribes; however, it just so happens that eating pork is not among the proscribed behaviors. And ridiculing it, doesn't change that reality.

There is no ridicule it is the reality as others see it.
Again, if your God abrogated his own commandments and you are comfortable with that, then more power to you.. :sunny:

cheers

[doorster]

Reading from these quotes and counter quotes, I could be forgiven for thinking that it looks like more than one "Jesus"at work (in the gospels), therefore I am gonna stick with our Messiah namely Hazrat Eesa Alahisalaam.

wa salaam

[doorster]

"What does NT mean? according to the Jews, there is no NT."

Even Jews who do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah are not so idiotic as to question the existence of a document known as the New Testament. It is the primary source for information about the life and teaching of Jesus and was produced by the community of people who knew him.

Incidentally, the overwhelming majority of the first Christians were Jews and almost all of the New Testament was written by Jews. If Luke was not a Jew then he was the exception.

I think that the thread was intended for finding similarities or things we can agree on. I do not think it was made so that you can hijack it so we end up finding what divides us, that has been done here 100 times already:mmokay:

why don't you go make your own threads and see if anyone want to join in your crusades?

[Grace Seeker]

I think that the thread was intended for finding similarities or things we can agree on. I do not think it was made so that you can hijack it so we end up finding what divides us, that has been done here 100 times already:mmokay:

why don't you go make your own threads and see if anyone want to join in your crusades?

Agreed, I think this thread was intended at least for making comparisons between what Muhaamad taught (presumably in the Qur'an and Hadith) and what Jesus is recorded as having said (presumably in the Christian scriputres). Hence it's posting in "comparative religion". Since those Christian scriptures where Jesus' words are located are generally called the New Testament not only by those who use them as their sacred scripture, but even by those of other faiths, it seems rather divise for someone to dispute the that a collection by such a title even exists.

What does NT mean? according to the Jews, there is no NT.

Perhaps this is where we got off track, for I can't figure out how such a comment constructively moves the conversation along. But before this thread can begin the type of comparisons asked for I think we do need to know what source documents the opening poster intends us to be looking at to make our comparisons.

Al Habeshi, do you intend those statements to be credited to Christ to come from any source that might claim to have the words of Christ, or only those recognized as authoritative by those who call themselves Christians?

[جوري]

Perhaps this is where we got off track, for I can't figure out how such a comment constructively moves the conversation along. But before this thread can begin the type of comparisons asked for I think we do need to know what source documents the opening poster intends us to be looking at to make our comparisons.

There is really nothing to compare or move along, when at the crux of all your arguments is an absurdity at variance with reason.
1- a confused God
2-A god who abrogates his own commandments
3-Doesn't abrogate his old commandments in an openly acceptable way.
4-A God who at one point is all knowing all hearing, and the next can't even speak of what he should know as an all knowing God, but of what 'he hears'
5-He prays to himself
6-He curses the earth he supposedly created because it doesn't bear fruit for him
7-he forsakes himself
8-he isn't in concert with anything collectively know of God from all previous messengers sent -- I never heard of Joseph, or Issac or Job praying to Jesus and a holy spirit
9- has a mother, and an alter ego, whose job is so dubious it is remarkable really the exculpations you keep giving these passages rather than concede a very viable.probable explanation.
the list goes on and on.. but at the end.. Christians have the nerve to classify this under monotheism .. what do you take people for? I don't think most four year olds believe in Santa clause, let alone a God this confused ...

I hate comparative religion on the account there is nothing to compare..
I only partake whenever I see one of those loony bible thumpers take leave from the belt to join the rest of the world and expect that this nonsense should swoon people from the dark ages into the 'enlightenment', considering Christianity has never had anything but a very dark, lamentably unenlightened existence throughout the ages -- and the only way for it to make viable itself as an option is to malign the only true contender (although I personally wouldn't even put Islam in the same league) and still, not even in an overt way to make its intentions known, by way of your new presidential candidate sending anti-islamic rhetoric by mail-- truly pitiable!

[Grace Seeker]

Just to refocus us on the question at hand.

As Salam Alaykum,
I was wondering if it was possible to compile teachings attributed to Jesus and teachings attributed to Muhammad which are parralel, would yall help??

There might be a couple of different ways to do this.

For instance, one could simply search for things such as YusufNoor has done (post #4 of the thread) and see what are some of the differences/similarities that individuals find. The list is likely to include those things that are most meaningful to those posters, but may not show us the breadth of topics they address.

Keltoi (post #5) suggested just taking a small pericope of Jesus' teachings such as the Sermon on the Mount, and combing it to see what of it was also addressed by Muhammad.

I have a third suggestion, but it would require people of differing faiths actually working together rather than competing against each other: What if we came up with a list of topics that we could agree we would like to see what, if anything, Jesus and Muhammad had to say about them? Then those who knew the Qur'an and Hadith well would comb through it for anything Muhammad might have said on the subject and those who knew the New Testament well would comb through it for anything Jesus might have said on the subject. And if some people think that we need to look at other sources beyond them, then they could do the same thing with those sources. But we would begin by agreeing on a list of topics which we were most interested in seeing what may or may not have been said.

[Hamayun]

There is really nothing to compare or move along, when at the crux of all your arguments is an absurdity at variance with reason.
1- a confused God
2-A god who abrogates his own commandments
3-Doesn't abrogate his old commandments in an openly acceptable way.
4-A God who at one point is all knowing all hearing, and the next can't even speak of what he should know as an all knowing God, but of what 'he hears'
5-He prays to himself
6-He curses the earth he supposedly created because it doesn't bear fruit for him
7-he forsakes himself
8-he isn't in concert with anything collectively know of God from all previous messengers sent -- I never heard of Joseph, or Issac or Job praying to Jesus and a holy spirit
9- has a mother, and an alter ego, whose job is so dubious it is remarkable really the exculpations you keep giving these passages rather than concede a very viable.probable explanation.
the list goes on and on.. but at the end.. Christians have the nerve to classify this under monotheism .. what do you take people for? I don't think most four year olds believe in Santa clause, let alone a God this confused ...

I hate comparative religion on the account there is nothing to compare..
I only partake whenever I see one of those loony bible thumpers take leave from the belt to join the rest of the world and expect that this nonsense should swoon people from the dark ages into the 'enlightenment', considering Christianity has never had anything but a very dark, lamentably unenlightened existence throughout the ages -- and the only way for it to make viable itself as an option is to malign the only true contender (although I personally wouldn't even put Islam in the same league) and still, not even in an overt way to make its intentions known, by way of your new presidential candidate sending anti-islamic rhetoric by mail-- truly pitiable!

I think you summed it up Sister Skye. :)