Italy: Veils not mandatory for Muslim women, says Islamic leader

[Azzuri]

Rome, 26 May (AKI) - Muslim women in Italy should not be forced to wear the veil, said the president of the Association of Muslim Intellectuals.

"Women should be free to choose if they want to wear the veil or not, considering that it is not a religious duty to do so," said Ahmad Vincenzo in an interview with Adnkronos International (AKI).

He was responding a statement made by Ezzedin el-Zir, the spokesperson of Italy's largest Muslim group, the Union of Islamic Communities of Italy (UCOII).

In an interview with the website KlausCondicio, el-Zir called on the Italian government not to prevent Muslim girls from wearing a veil to school, in the way that France has already done. There is a ban on wearing veils in French schools.

"In Italy, there is no prohibition to wearing the veil provided it does not cover the face and prevent the identification of the person," Vincenzo told AKI.

"As for schools, since it is not absolutely obligatory to wear the veil in Islam, the choice must be left to the women to decide if they want to wear one or not.

"We are worried that the exploitation of the veil could lead to the creation of an Islamist uniform for female Muslims," he said.

The same concerns were expressed by the deputy president of the Association of Intellectual Muslims, Karim Mezran.

"In many Muslim countries, the veil is not obligatory," he said adding that "it is important that it does not become a uniform, that is a form of reverse discrimination, where only those who wear the veil are considered Muslim."

SOURCE: http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English...1.0.2197663909

Was just wondering, what does Surah 24, verse 31 say:

'And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.'

[wth1257]

Rome, 26 May (AKI) - Muslim women in Italy should not be forced to wear the veil, said the president of the Association of Muslim Intellectuals.

"Women should be free to choose if they want to wear the veil or not, considering that it is not a religious duty to do so," said Ahmad Vincenzo in an interview with Adnkronos International (AKI).

He was responding a statement made by Ezzedin el-Zir, the spokesperson of Italy's largest Muslim group, the Union of Islamic Communities of Italy (UCOII).

In an interview with the website KlausCondicio, el-Zir called on the Italian government not to prevent Muslim girls from wearing a veil to school, in the way that France has already done. There is a ban on wearing veils in French schools.

"In Italy, there is no prohibition to wearing the veil provided it does not cover the face and prevent the identification of the person," Vincenzo told AKI.

"As for schools, since it is not absolutely obligatory to wear the veil in Islam, the choice must be left to the women to decide if they want to wear one or not.

"We are worried that the exploitation of the veil could lead to the creation of an Islamist uniform for female Muslims," he said.

The same concerns were expressed by the deputy president of the Association of Intellectual Muslims, Karim Mezran.

"In many Muslim countries, the veil is not obligatory," he said adding that "it is important that it does not become a uniform, that is a form of reverse discrimination, where only those who wear the veil are considered Muslim."

SOURCE: http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English...1.0.2197663909

Was just wondering, what does Surah 24, verse 31 say:

'And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.'

That Surah seems, to me, to be commanding the covering of the "bosoms", not hair I don't think:?

[crayon]

It's not really clear what he means by veil- the head cover or the face cover?

There's no dispute that the head cover is an obligation on muslim women, but there have been differences in opinion regarding the face veil.

[glo]

Muslim women in Italy should not be forced to wear the veil, said the president of the Association of Muslim Intellectuals.

"Women should be free to choose if they want to wear the veil or not, considering that it is not a religious duty to do so," said Ahmad Vincenzo in an interview with Adnkronos International (AKI).

Regardless of how strongly you feel about women being obliged to wear hijab, would you agree with the statement that women should not be forced to do wear hijab, and that it should be a decision made freely and willingly by each individual?

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Nerd]

Regardless of how strongly you feel about women being obliged to wear hijab, would you agree with the statement that women should not be forced to do wear hijab, and that it should be a decision made freely and willingly by each individual?

If a woman/girl wear the "hijab" because they were forced to, doesn't that counter the purpose of willingly obeying and submitting of the commands of Allah? In Islam it is said, all actions/deeds are rewarded based on their intention.

[glo]

^ I am thinking along the same lines, Nerd.

[Malaikah]

If a woman/girl wear the "hijab" because they were forced to, doesn't that counter the purpose of willingly obeying and submitting of the commands of Allah? In Islam it is said, all actions/deeds are rewarded based on their intention.

But hijab is not only something that effects the individual, it effects and benefits the whole society. I see no problem with it being obligatory to be worn in public at least to maintain modesty in public and protect the society from immodesty, harm and evil. Whether the individual wants to be wearing hijab is irrelevant - that is between them and Allah, but there is nothing to justify them spreading and promoting their sin in public.

It is no different to people being forced to cover their private parts in public in most parts of the world. People are forced to cover up - they might not be doing it for God but at least society is protected from them.

Otherwise where do we draw the line? What stops people from saying that people should be allowed to walk around naked since they won't be covering up for the sake of Allah... or from saying that people should be able to steal because they aren't abstaining for the sake of Allah?

[Nerd]

But hijab is not only something that effects the individual, it effects and benefits the whole society. I see no problem with it being obligatory to be worn in public at least to maintain modesty in public and protect the society from immodesty, harm and evil. Whether the individual wants to be wearing hijab is irrelevant - that is between them and Allah, but there is nothing to justify them spreading and promoting their sin in public.

Thereby making the act of veiling (a woman wearing hijab) not to obey Allah, but to the state laws? :?

Not a bad idea since you put it that way: since it prevents all forms of evil one way or another.

[S1aveofA11ah]

Regardless of how strongly you feel about women being obliged to wear hijab, would you agree with the statement that women should not be forced to do wear hijab, and that it should be a decision made freely and willingly by each individual?

In Islam there is no forcing anyone to do anything - so you are quite correct. For example, the Muslim male should grow a beard and not shave but other Muslims should NEVER go around forcing/harrassing etc. the shaving Muslims. Rather, the sinners are to be gently advised (in secret) about their misdoings. This is a very important concept in Islam. Advise should be done in a gentle manner. It should not 'expose' or embarress the sinners. The idea is for reform not humiliation/destruction.

If they accept then all good. If not, then its between them and their Lord. Punishments is a different matter completely of course and should not be confused in this regard.

At the end of the day the whole meaning of Islam is to submits one's will to the will of the Creator. Its the individual's choice to do x, y or z and its those choices which are noted and rewarded/punished by Allah.

[Malaikah]

Thereby making the act of veiling (a woman wearing hijab) not to obey Allah, but to the state laws? :?

For the women who wear hijab for Allah, then obviously they are doing it for Him, those who wear hijab for the state, that is their sin.

It is no different from a person abstaining from murder for fear of facing the justice system and because Allah forbade murder. I assume you would agree with the state forbidding murder? Obviously not dressing properly is not at the same level as murder, but the concept is the same.

What they do with their intentions is between them and Allah, however that doesn't mean that just because they have their intentions messed up that the society at large has to suffer.

In Islam there is no forcing anyone to do anything - so you are quite correct.

:sl:

Not entirely true, since, for example, a person can and must be forced to pay their zakat (the government has the right to take it forcefully even), though I can see where are coming from.

[Nerd]

What they do with their intentions is between them and Allah, however that doesn't mean that just because they have their intentions messed up that the society at large has to suffer.

Indeed not, if you look into it in modesty defined by an Islamic point of view.

[Ayoub]

I also think women should have the choice to cover their hair or not, as you are not allowed to force anyone to pray etc. if they really don't want to, then you should not force them to cover their hair if they really don't want to.

[Izyan]

But hijab is not only something that effects the individual, it effects and benefits the whole society. I see no problem with it being obligatory to be worn in public at least to maintain modesty in public and protect the society from immodesty, harm and evil. Whether the individual wants to be wearing hijab is irrelevant - that is between them and Allah, but there is nothing to justify them spreading and promoting their sin in public.

It is no different to people being forced to cover their private parts in public in most parts of the world. People are forced to cover up - they might not be doing it for God but at least society is protected from them.

Otherwise where do we draw the line? What stops people from saying that people should be allowed to walk around naked since they won't be covering up for the sake of Allah... or from saying that people should be able to steal because they aren't abstaining for the sake of Allah?

I'm really insulted to think that you think just cause a man can see a womans hair it would make him aroused. There are many men out there with cloth fetishes so would that justify making women stay in the house 24/7?

[Azzuri]

That Surah seems, to me, to be commanding the covering of the "bosoms", not hair I don't think:?

I am sorry wth1257, but i do not agree. The next line also states 'not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands fathers....'

One of the meanings of adornment is 'the action of decorating yourself with something colorful and interesting', so this should also apply to the face, if i'm not mistaken.

[Izyan]

I am sorry wth1257, but i do not agree. The next line also states 'not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands fathers....'

One of the meanings of adornment is 'the action of decorating yourself with something colorful and interesting', so this should also apply to the face, if i'm not mistaken.

ok then they don't put on make up or jewlry. Problem solved.

[Azzuri]

ok then they don't put on make up or jewlry. Problem solved.

Yeah....but women have become used to decorating their face....and Allah must have known about this....

[Snowflake]

That Surah seems, to me, to be commanding the covering of the "bosoms", not hair I don't think:?

...and to draw their veils over their bosoms....

The veil refers to the head covering. 'Draw their veils over their bosoms' means the head covering should be long enough (not bandana type) to cover those parts.

[aadil77]

:sl:

Not entirely true, since, for example, a person can and must be forced to pay their zakat (the government has the right to take it forcefully even), though I can see where are coming from.

Zakat is an obligation for muslims, but I don't see why they should be forced? It is their obligation, if they fail to do it is their error and Allah will deal with them justly,

[Izyan]

Yeah....but women have become used to decorating their face....and Allah must have known about this....

That is not what the verse says. It says women should avoid these things not cover her face

[Izyan]

The veil refers to the head covering. 'Draw their veils over their bosoms' means the head covering should be long enough (not bandana type) to cover those parts.

That's your interpretation. Do you have another Sunnah that backs this up? You are not a scholar hence you should not be interpreting these things.

[Air Jordan]

In Islam there is no forcing anyone to do anything - so you are quite correct. For example, the Muslim male should grow a beard and not shave but other Muslims should NEVER go around forcing/harrassing etc. the shaving Muslims. Rather, the sinners are to be gently advised (in secret) about their misdoings. This is a very important concept in Islam. Advise should be done in a gentle manner. It should not 'expose' or embarress the sinners. The idea is for reform not humiliation/destruction.

If they accept then all good. If not, then its between them and their Lord. Punishments is a different matter completely of course and should not be confused in this regard.

At the end of the day the whole meaning of Islam is to submits one's will to the will of the Creator. Its the individual's choice to do x, y or z and its those choices which are noted and rewarded/punished by Allah.

That all seems very sensible for anyone of the age of consent who has embraced Islam. Evidently someone needs to explain this to the Taliban.

[Souljette]

Where are some people coming from? All the scholars have agreed that HIjab is compulsory..in other words the covering of the hair and wearing modest clothing is something muslim women should abide by but their is only a debate between covering of the face and the whether it's compulsory or not..In the Qur'an it says juyubbina which means covering yourself from head to toe...we're taking the english translation instead of the actual meaning of the verse..:S

[Malaikah]

I'm really insulted to think that you think just cause a man can see a womans hair it would make him aroused. There are many men out there with cloth fetishes so would that justify making women stay in the house 24/7?

How amazing that a person can feel insulted by words that weren't even spoken. I never said a man was going to get aroused by looking at a womans hair!

Zakat is an obligation for muslims, but I don't see why they should be forced? It is their obligation, if they fail to do it is their error and Allah will deal with them justly,

You're forgetting a very important point though, and that is that zakat is the right of the poor... we have no right to keep that money from them. Therefore zakat must be forcibly taken by anyone if they refuses to pay, in the same way taxes are forcibly taken. The most well known example of this in out history is when Abu Bakr, as the caliph, with full support of hte companions, actually fought against a tribe who refused to pay the zakat.