Backwards thinking/living father, HOW DO I DEAL?

[_advice]

Salams,

I'm hoping I can find some people who can relate to my issue and maybe share some different perspectives on what I should do.

My dad was born and raised in India. We've been in America for about 20 years now. But, he has never left the "village mentality" behind. He is one of the most ignorant people I've ever had to deal with. His understand of religion, life, marriage, etc. hasn't changed since he was a little kid running around the slums, and ever since we've been in America it's caused constant arguments within and outside the family.

My parents are now old and in their 60s. And still, my dad continues on with his ignorant arguments. When I say ignorant, I mean the mentality that my mother is his slave and has to do anything and everything for him, while he does nothing. He puts her down, insults her, forces religion onto her, constantly argues, doesn't let her do anything on her own, and has a new argument everyday of the week.

A part of me feels bad, because my dad is truly ignorant. He thinks he's doing good and just doesn't see that he's wrong in just about everything he does. He makes himself out to be the victim and acts like we're all against him.

Can anyone else relate to this? What have you done? How do you deal with it?

Right now, I'm going to pursue the thought of having them get an official divorce. They've talked about it plenty of times, but nothing has resulted. It would be difficult cause my dad has no money, and I don't know what to do with him.

Should we send him back to India and send him a monthly stipend? I definitely don't want to live with him and I don't want him around my mom any longer. There's other siblings in the family too and we all are just sick of having him around. This has been going on our entire lives, except it was worst when we were younger and dependent on him. None of us are dependent on him any longer.

I might sound like I'm heartless right now, and you all might think we just need to be patient and understanding. But, it doesn't work. My dad is at the age where he is a kid again.. he doesn't understand logic and doesn't understand the concept of family living. What makes it hard is again, he is truly ignorant.

He won't ever be happy down this path, and it's too late in his life for us to even attempt to reprogram his subconscious mind through therapy and rid him of all the backward thinking and bad habits that he has.

What are some thoughts on this?

[------]

*bump

[glo]

You don't mention in your post how your mother feels about all this?
Has she expressed that she is unhappy?
Or is she of a similar mindset and thinks similarly about marriage and the husband-and-wife relationship?

If it is the first, perhaps you can sit down with your mother and explore her options.
If it is the latter, perhaps you have to accept that in their own way your mother and father are quite happily married ...

At their age, it may be quite difficult for both your parents to change their way of living and their thinking.

Not all people are intellectuals. I am sure that many people across the world live their lives and their faiths in very simple and uneducated ways - which others may perceive to be ignorant. Do you think it makes them less worthy in Allah's eyes?
I guess what Allah sees in us all is what matters in the end ...

I pray for peace and understanding in your family

Salaam

[Questfortruth]

Hello _advice

I am really surprised to hear what you have to say about your "60" Year old father. This is really one sided story we don't know your fathers side yet. We humands tend to see ourselves as victim and the other as an aggressor. I really do not think it is right for your whole family to gang up on your father. I did go through similar problems with my father. We all use to hate my father until we heard his side of story. Even though to us it did not make any sense but since we changed for him he changed for us. You and your family need to discuss this problem with your father. What do you mean your father "forces religion on her"? You need to really look at it logically. Is he practising muslim himself? If he is swearing and insulting his wife infront of his children. How is that religious? People from back home abuse religion to get their way. They know religion is strong in those parts so no one will question their religion thats why they abuse it. The best think to do is your family start practising islam and encourage your father on following islam. Oppression is agianst Islam. Even animals have rights in Islam. Hope this helps.

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[Snowflake]

asalam alaikum wr wb,

Brother, instead of grudging your dad's mentality, you should be appreciating it. Too many people forget their roots to fit into new societies just to please others. There's a lot to be learnt and gained from the richness of his experiences. It's sad that the same mentality that made him work all his life to raise you from a baby to when you can stand up on your own two feet, is now undesirable to you.


Every humanbeing has the potential to change. But that depends on how they are dealt with. Showing your resentment is only going to confirm your father's views that it's not his mentality that's the problem but yours. Your father might have valid reasons for behaving the way he does. If your offspring were to disagree with your way of thinking in the future would that mean you are wrong? It's all about understanding the reasons of someone's behavior. You can make the effort of doing that in a loving and supportive way and muster some patience along with it.


You should also look ahead as to the consequences of encouraging divorce between your parents at this age. If that was to happen, who would take care of your father in his old age? He would have to sit and suffer alone thinking of the reward his offspring gave him in return of everything he did for you since you were weak and helpless yourself. I think it is unimaginable cruelty to inflict upon an aged parent when they need all the support they can get. I can't even believe you can think of such a thing and talk about sending your father back to India as if he is an object that can be parcelled, stamped and sent on its way. And then you make it sound like you'd be making a huge sacrifice for sending him money to live on? Even beggars can find two meals a day - but nothing can replace the security and stability one finds in a family from loved ones.


Remember, tomorrow your wife could have a problem with your mother. Then what? Your offspring could have a problem with you. Fear Allah brother, because what goes round does come round.

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) also said, “When a young man honours [and treats with kindness] an old person because of his being aged, Allah Almighty will bring this young man those who will honour [and treat him with kindness] when he becomes aged” (Reported by At-Tirmidhi).

Judging by your post, I feel you cannot even talk to your father in a kind and loving manner. His stubborness is made worse because he is being treated like he is not wanted there. Don't you think he senses that? Senses the resentment in his own flesh and blood? Old people become like young children and just as you wouldn't punish a child for being difficult, the same way you have to be patient and not love them any less no matter how testing it is for you.

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Part of glorifying Allah is honouring the grey-haired Muslim” (Abu Dawud

Now it's up to you, how you muster the kindness, understanding and the patience that your father deserves. He is only human, not an evil jinn that he won't be affected by his children's love and encouragement to see their point of view.


Surely when you pray salah you don't leave the part out 'Rabbanaghfir li wa liwalidaiya' part? It'd be very hypocritical of you if you pray for their forgiveness in the hereafter and then subject them to such pain in the world.

Your Lord has commanded that you worship none but Him, and that you be kind to your parents. If one of them or both of them reach old age with you, do not say to them a word of disrespect, or scold them, but say a generous word to them. And act humbly to them in mercy, and say, “My Lord, have mercy on them, since they cared for me when I was small.” (Quran, 17:23-24)

May Allah guide you and us too. Ameen.

wa alaikum asalam wr wb.

[wildkat]

Assalamu Alaykum,
I totally understand how you feel bro, have a similar problem with my dad myself. Life in my house... dunno how to describe it! My dad always argues with my mum and her family... like ALL the time and its not easy for me and my brother and sisters. I dont know how to describe my relationship with my dad, well I dont think you could call it that, we never exchange a word apart from salam and we live in the same house!!
My brother being the eldest always had to deal with my dad but he's moved out now and its just me and my elder sister living at home with my parents. Its hard sometimes, but at the end of the day, he's still my dad and even if I disagree with alot of things that he does I still have to show him the respect he deserves.

Therapy... lol we suggested that one and... lets say it didnt go down too well with my dad..

[_advice]

glo: My mom's never been happy with this. She's only dealt with it and continues to deal with it. She has so many health problems that are directly related to the lifestyle that my dad brought upon her.

Questfortruth: My dad is very religious, but like I've said he's also very ignorant and his interpretations of religion are also very ignorant. We've all had tough times when we first came to America 20 years ago. When we were all young, my dad never taught us religion. He was barely making ends meet and just got stuck in the rat race. And yes, there were attempts to teach us the basics of the arabic alphabet and all. But he never had the relationship with us to PROPERLY teach us religion so we never learned. In fact, his constant arguing, yelling, and verbal/physical attacks only turned us away from religion.

These days, that's one of his biggest arguments. I have siblings in their 30s who are married now, but he still constantly argues about how they don't pray salat. You all can argue now saying that he's right, but you need to realize that he's turned us all away from religion. My older siblings are the nicest people you'd meet, but they don't have a strong religious foundation so they won't just wake up one day and begin praying, and they won't start praying just because he's still yelling at them.

My dad constantly tells my mom how she's going to hell, how she's not a good wife, how he doesn't appreciate her, how he's gonna tell God that he was never happy with her, how they should've divorced, etc. etc.

Here's an example:
The other day we all went on a picnic that my dad had planned a week earlier. On the morning of the picnic, he decided not to go and started acting weird with everyone, and he usually does this so we weren't too surprised. So everyone was busy preparing for the picnic in the morning, and by evening time when we all got back, a few of us were at the dinner table eating. Then my dad comes by and right away, starts yelling at my mom about how she didn't prepare ROTI for him in the morning. And when I say yelling, I mean the moment he came by us it was "DON'T THINK I'M GONNA FORGET THIS, you didn't prepare anything for me this morning and if you don't want to then let me know and I'll just go elsewhere for breakfast for now one. I don't need you, yadda yadda yadda and for....THIRTY......minutes it was constant arguing.

My mom said she forgot in the morning. Everyone was packing for the picnic, my dad was being weird and wasn't even around, and she forgot to make the dough for the roti, which takes a lot of time especially if it's just for one person. And this is a VERY RARE case, it doesn't happen often AT ALL that my mom forgot to make roti.

That's just one example of the ignorance.

Muslimah_sis: I appreciate your response and you have some good points given that you don't know the full story. But, understand that we aren't looking to abandon him just because he disagrees with us. The option of having him go back to India may be for his own good if he's happier out there, and he may consider it if he has income to support himself. But, I've realized that's not a good option because he doesn't get along with anyone out there either, and I do agree that it's definitely not a good idea to have him live alone in his elder years.

I'm not going to pursue the divorce option at this point and in fact, what I plan to do now is sit them both down and have them make a list of things that they want changed around the family. I want my dad to write down everything that bothers him. Then one by one either have it changed or have him understand that what he wants is wrong and he needs to change his views. I think this is the only way I can get to his mind. I'll have him review this list on a daily or weekly basis and bring it up every time there's an ignorant argument.


wildkat: We're in the same situation. I barely have conversations with my dad too, except for basic stuff like the weather or how he saved money on something at the supermarket. My brother, being the eldest, has dealt with it his entire life and it's sad because he's had to put aside so much of his own life to make up for the crap that my dad brings to us. My oldest bro is among the nicest all around human being that I've ever met. He can easily move out right now to avoid arguments with my dad. But, he's been supporting the family since his college days. He's been the father figure since his teens and it's been a constant burden on his neck.

I do respect my dad. The only time I don't respect him is when he mouths off to my mom, and then I mouth off to him. It's a continuous cycle, he argues like crazy one day, then a few days later he's like a kid again. The worst thing about it is nothing changes.

Anyway, I think I wrote enough... I appreciate the replies and any other replies anyone wants to write. In the meantime, I'll soon be exploring the option of making that 'wish-list'....

[Noora_z3]

May Allah help yo bro, abusing a woman verbally/emotionally/ phisically in Islam is a majore sin. Do consider therapy and it will be good if you can find an indian psychologists, some one who can understand your dad's mentality and where he is coming from.

[Snowflake]

asalam alaikum wr wb,

I'm not going to pursue the divorce option at this point and in fact, what I plan to do now is sit them both down and have them make a list of things that they want changed around the family. I want my dad to write down everything that bothers him. Then one by one either have it changed or have him understand that what he wants is wrong and he needs to change his views. I think this is the only way I can get to his mind. I'll have him review this list on a daily or weekly basis and bring it up every time there's an ignorant argument.

MashaAllah that's a very ethically sound and commendable approach. I understand that Islam has not been a large part of your lives or it has been tainted by misconceptions and therefore of no particular benefit, but if you haven't already began seeking knowledge of it, then inshaAllah now's the time to start.

You may have noticed, as I have, that muslims who conduct their life by Islamic codes and values, attract the approval and respect of others and thereby indirectly influence them to behave with them in a good manner. The truth is that, the respect we show to such a person is in actual fact our respect and adoration for Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Since it is the following of Allah's commands that has given that person their worth in the eyes of others. And it is through Allah's pleasure and mercy he has gained this respect amongst others.


Once a person begins making the effort to cover the Path of deen with full sincerity, fulfilling his obligations to the Creator to the best of his ability, striving to adhere to the Quran and Sunnah and asking Allah to assist him in his difficulties (duaa), Allah makes their affairs easy for them - sometimes in ways one could never have imagined.


InshaAllah, increase your knowledge of the deen and follow it's teachings as best as you can and you will find that not only those around you will treat you with respect and kindness but that Allah's help will be with you in other ways too. InshaAllah, where there's duaa, there's a way...

On the authority of Abu Harayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Allah the Almighty said:

I am as My servant thinks I am (1). I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.

It was related by al-Buhkari (also by Muslim, at-Tirmidhi and Ibn-Majah).

I know my advice is more religious than 'practical', but it's religion that sorts our practical matter for us and not vice versa. InshaAllah.


wa alaikum asalam wr wb.

[afzalaung]

Salamaleykum,
i cant offer any advice but...from what i see, this is a day in an south Asian's life. i guess its harder for u to digest as u grew up abroad.

Whereas i'm quite used to it. i know sometimes it gets nasty and really frustrating. but at the end of the day..its just words. Divorce will come up many times...but trust me, i'm dead sure that he dont even dream of getting a divorce.
think about this...if he doesnt really love his family, he wouldn't have brought u guys all the way from India, he could have just sent monthly allowance to u guys back in india. its way much more economic that way. but he didnt, did he?
u've to remember, traditional south asian men hardly ever show affection or care, but they are very vocal critics.
and now that ur dad's in the senile stage. he'ill say more hurtfull stuffs and act grumppy ...etc...u just need more patience.
one moment he'ld say i want tea...the next moment he'ld say i want coffee, and when mom brings him his coffee, he'ld ask for his tea. and goes mad coz she made him the 'wrong drink', and refuse to drink anything at all. and a few moments later he'ill get angry again for still havent received his drink.

he probably has just a few years ahead of him and, at the end of the day, no matter what he's ur dad.
No matter what u decide to do, bear that in mind all the time.

[afzalaung]

Salamaleykum,
i cant offer any advice but...from what i see, this is a day in an south Asian's life. i guess its harder for u to digest as u grew up abroad.

Whereas i'm quite used to it. i know sometimes it gets nasty and really frustrating. but at the end of the day..its just words. Divorce will come up many times...but trust me, i'm dead sure that he dont even dream of getting a divorce.
think about this...if he doesnt really love his family, he wouldn't have brought u guys all the way from India, he could have just sent monthly allowance to u guys back in india. its way much more economic that way. but he didnt, did he?
u've to remember, traditional south asian men hardly ever show affection or care, but they are very vocal critics.
and now that ur dad's in the senile stage. he'ill say more hurtfull stuffs and act grumppy ...etc...u just need more patience.
one moment he'ld say i want tea...the next moment he'ld say i want coffee, and when mom brings him his coffee, he'ld ask for his tea. and goes mad coz she made him the 'wrong drink', and refuse to drink anything at all. and a few moments later he'ill get angry again for still havent received his drink.

he probably has just a few years ahead of him and, at the end of the day, no matter what he's ur dad.
No matter what u decide to do, bear that in mind all the time.