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kirk
05-28-2008, 02:47 AM
People would be aware of the bible story. At a wedding ,Mary asked Jesus to change water into wine.

Jesus replied “ My time has not yet come!”

Recently I was in a doctor’s waiting room. Two people were sitting nearby talking. One had said that his appointment was at 8.

At 7:45 he was called and he stood up and said “My time has not yet come!”
Everybody knew he was referring to that passage in the bible and everybody grinned.

My point is that people can have fun with scripture without offending anybody.

Could Muslims please quote a passage from the Koran that might be used in the same way without offending anybody.
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Umar001
05-28-2008, 12:40 PM
Hi,

I don't think it is the same though, as Muslims we wouldn't use a verse from the Qur'an as a joke, even if it was true I dont think. Though there is astory of a woman speaking in nothing but Qur'anic verses, she wasn't joking around though.

Here is something about the Prophet's humour.

And Allah knows best.+
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------
05-28-2008, 12:41 PM
:salamext:

We take our religion seriously :)
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Malaikah
05-28-2008, 01:18 PM
I would SO not have understood that.

That said, a lecturer made some jokes yesterday related to religion. When someone asked him if there will be images on the exam he said:

"Is the pope a catholic? I heard a rumour. I hope I haven't offended anyone with that."

And then he also said later:

"This revelation is almost as important as the Easter Sunday revelation."

I had no clue what he was talking about... I don't even know what Easter is about.

Er, yeh, anyway, I wouldn't be comfortable using a direct quote of the Quran as a joke... not matter how inoffensive the joke is. I'd probably be cool with using a famous event or saying of the prophet... provided there is no offence in it of course.
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Ayoub
05-28-2008, 01:22 PM
We take our religion seriously, and the circumstances under which it was revealed were also serious. This is why we don't make fun of and mock the verses.
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Keltoi
05-28-2008, 03:55 PM
I don't think it is a matter of taking Islam more "seriously", I think the primary difference is the book. Christians do not claim the Bible was dictated by God, as Muslims do with the Qu'ran, so there is obviously going to be a difference in the reaction to non-religious use of verses.
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Malaikah
05-29-2008, 12:29 AM
Agreed with Keltoi.
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Mikayeel
05-29-2008, 12:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I don't think it is a matter of taking Islam more "seriously", I think the primary difference is the book. Christians do not claim the Bible was dictated by God, as Muslims do with the Qu'ran, so there is obviously going to be a difference in the reaction to non-religious use of verses.
hello keltoi,:)

The writers of the bible, were inspired by the holyspirit which is god right?

Doesn't that mean its from god? Only not a direct route?

Please correct my views if i misunderstood this concept:)
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Keltoi
05-29-2008, 04:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by raOnar
hello keltoi,:)

The writers of the bible, were inspired by the holyspirit which is god right?

Doesn't that mean its from god? Only not a direct route?

Please correct my views if i misunderstood this concept:)
That would be correct in general, but there is an obvious difference in perception between a book filtered through the mind and hand of man to a book claimed to have been dictated word for word by God...albeit from the mind of a man. While Christians view the Bible as a narrative of God's Word, in general it is not viewed as a sacred object. It is the Word that is sacred, not paper.
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Umar001
05-29-2008, 09:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I don't think it is a matter of taking Islam more "seriously", I think the primary difference is the book. Christians do not claim the Bible was dictated by God, as Muslims do with the Qu'ran, so there is obviously going to be a difference in the reaction to non-religious use of verses.
Yea but you do believe that the words in the Bible, are the accurate words of Jesus, and that Jesus is God. So then the Bible would contain the word of God.

I thikn it has been understood differently what is meant by serious, noone here would say they would mock their religion, but we all understand mock as different.

I guess the Muslims in general have a more stern view of God than Christians, now I am not claiming that this is an advantage to the Muslim or vice versa but just a perception.
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glo
05-29-2008, 11:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
I think it has been understood differently what is meant by serious, noone here would say they would mock their religion, but we all understand mock as different.
I agree.

Perhaps this has to do with Christians believing that Jesus died not only on the cross, but also in a humiliating and undignified way.
Mockery, ridicule and humiliation were very much part of his death - and he taught before he died that his followers were to expect the same.

If Jesus suffered mockery, ridicule and humiliation with such patience, love and humility, then we as his followers should try our best to follow his example ...

I guess the Muslims in general have a more stern view of God than Christians, now I am not claiming that this is an advantage to the Muslim or vice versa but just a perception.
I agree here too.

My husband quotes the Bible at me quite frequently ... usually the 'obedient wife' bit, and usually when he wants me to make a coffee!
I know that he means it to be a bit of fun, and I take it in such a way. I have never felt offended by it.
On the contrary, I am quite impressed that he knows the Bible so well. It's a start! :D
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Grace Seeker
05-29-2008, 03:03 PM
Given the above conversation, I would like to push the subject to examine how it impacts the way we respond to other things in life that might be associated with our respective faiths.


It seems that the issue is one regarding sensitivity. Be it that we label soone as over-sensitive or not sensitive enough, such labels seem to be to be making a value statement that there is a certain "correct" level of sensitivity that all should share. Personally, I don't think that is true.

I operate on more of a floating sensitivity scale. Two different people could say the same thing to me and with one I would be offended and another not based on what else I know about them. It's called considering the source. Thus, I try to not take offense at the things children say, because they often say "offensive" things not to incite or be cruel, but simply because they don't know any better. So, too, I try to not take offesne at things that people from outside my own culture say.

I've had to practice this often with some of my own (adult) children who are from other countries, and thus other cultures. Yesterday, my daughter (who is from Hong Kong, I'm from the USA) unknowningly said something that might normally be construed as offensive in a comment to me as we were planning a trip she is taking to come home for a visit. Now she was probably not even aware of how her remark might have been taken, and since she is really excited about coming home, she obviously wasn't seeking to offend. So, I had a choice to either allow myself to be upset by it, or dismiss it as something culturally related and not intended. I chose the latter.

I'm thinking that if this could happen within our family between me and my daughter, just how easyily it could happen between people of different religious and social backgrounds. One might use a pattern of behavior for reacting to things that is very common in one's own circle, but because in our global society no behavior is ever limited to one's own circle anymore and thus in the process offend others. An actual example that I, myself, still don't understand, is the reaction to the Danish cartoon about the Prophet. Now, in this case I can even see why people might have felt insulted, but I don't think I will ever understand why the response to it should have involved the violence that it did.

Then there is Talking Jesus Doll; though I find it nausiating, I suppose that someone actually thinks this is a good idea. But that isn't the point. The issue is, even though, to me, this smacks more of capitalism run amock ("anything for a buck"), it isn't something that is worth fireboming a Wal-Mart (or whever these things get sold) over. Not that it isn't offensive; but I, not others, am in control of how I respond to the offense. I don't have to respond in kind, one offense provoking another till we have a world at war. My understanding is that the real Jesus is bigger than a Talking Jesus Doll, and doesn't need me to defend him from even an entire marketplace filled with them.

In the long run, I think a better response on my part to an offense, is to do exactly what I do with children:
  1. Ignore it, as being from someone who doesn't understand.
  2. If I'm in a position where I can respond, to speak to it explaining the nature of nature of the offense so that we might better understand each other and not continue to offend.
  3. If they do continue, to still ignore it, as being from someone who obviously isn't sensitive enough to care about other people's feelings, hence I don't need to give any weight to theirs. Just because someone else is insensitive doesn't require me to be intolerant.
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Fishman
05-29-2008, 05:39 PM
:sl:
I even feel uneasy when people make fun of other religions...
:w:
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Keltoi
05-30-2008, 02:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
I agree.

Perhaps this has to do with Christians believing that Jesus died not only on the cross, but also in a humiliating and undignified way.
Mockery, ridicule and humiliation were very much part of his death - and he taught before he died that his followers were to expect the same.

If Jesus suffered mockery, ridicule and humiliation with such patience, love and humility, then we as his followers should try our best to follow his example ...


I agree here too.

My husband quotes the Bible at me quite frequently ... usually the 'obedient wife' bit, and usually when he wants me to make a coffee!
I know that he means it to be a bit of fun, and I take it in such a way. I have never felt offended by it.
On the contrary, I am quite impressed that he knows the Bible so well. It's a start! :D
Good points Glo
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kirk
06-02-2008, 03:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
I even feel uneasy when people make fun of other religions........

Why? You should be able to have fun without offense.

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Malaikah
06-02-2008, 03:33 AM
There are boundaries, and people often cross them. What is fun for some people can be offensive to others.

For example, a bunch of comedians in Australia thought it would be 'funny' to do a parady of the way Christians think they see Jesus everywhere by making a image of Jesus in a toilet out of a faeces stain and showing many ppl lining up to see it.

Funny? I didn't think so. Offensive? Definitely.
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