Report: Iran Arrests Suspected Converts to Christianity

[Izyan]

Report: Iran Arrests Suspected Converts to Christianity
Thursday , May 29, 2008

By Joseph Abrams


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Amid a growing crackdown on religious freedom, Iranian police reportedly have been rounding up people they suspect have converted to Christianity.

On May 11, police arrested eight people in the southern city of Shiraz, according to Carl Moeller, president of Open Doors USA, a Christian organization that fights religious persecution.

Converting from Islam is a crime in Iran; converts can face jail and other penalties.

Most of those detained have been released, but at least one of them, 21-year-old Mojtaba Hussein, is still behind bars and is not cooperating with his captors, according to Moeller.

“He may not be willing to give up the names of other Muslim converts. He may not be willing to recant his faith himself,” Moeller said.

Numerous calls to Iranian government representatives in the U.S. have not been returned.

Though they are protected under the Iranian constitution, Christians are not given the same freedoms as other citizens in Iran. Christians can’t worship freely or hold public office, and they can be arrested for even speaking to Muslims about Christianity.

“Such people are persecuted, and particularly in the 1990s such converts were killed — it’s thought by government agents,” said Paul Marshall, a senior fellow at the Center for Religious Freedom at the Hudson Institute, a conservative think tank.

Under the watchful eye of the Iranian government, many have been forced to worship in secret and are moving underground into what are called house churches —although some sects, such as Armenians and Syrians, have been allowed to worship in churches.

“With [Mahmoud] Ahmadinejad as president, the Iranians are intensifying the religious dimension of their rule,” Marshall said. “The concern about the religious purity of the regime has become stronger in the last two or three years.”

Earlier this year, Ahmadinejad proposed a law that would impose a death sentence for any Muslim who converts to another religion. Under current laws, those charged with converting can be prosecuted and face jail time for vague crimes like “blasphemy” and “insulting Islam.”

Marshall said these restrictive policies may be creating a backlash among Muslims. “There are indications that with the deep unpopularity of the regime that people are turning away from Islam,” he said.

“Seeing Muslims converting to Christianity is directly threatening to an Islamic regime,” said Moeller.

He compared these small groups of converts to early Christians living under the yoke of the Roman Empire, who met in secret and whose beliefs were “dependent on dreams, visions, signs and wonders.”

Because Bibles are rare in Iran and teachings are not "as dependent on the Bible as Evangelical Christianity in America is,” said Moeller, there is a “real lack of scriptural foundation."

But despite the growing pressure from the state, worshippers continue to practice, and Moeller said the house church system seems to be growing.

“We’ve got confirmed reports of groups of Muslim convert believers doubling in size in the last six months,” he said.

[Amadeus85]

The sad but true thing is that Iran isnt western liberal democracy and they never promised to allow to convert from islam. Its just according to their law.

[NYCmuslim]

Its un-Quranic nonsense like this that stagnate the development of these nations.

[MKE Brother]

Its un-Quranic nonsense like this that stagnate the development of these nations.

...and what stagnates the perception of Islam everwhere else.

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[The_Prince]

this is funny, a news report comming from a biased evangelical org, yes how reliable they are! even if its true who cares, they should round and arrest you as well izyan you islamophobic trash.

how many innocent Muslims get arrested in the west as well as Muslim countries by westerners for no reason other than being Muslim? eye for an eye, this should continue, for every innocent Muslim wrongfully arrested in the west, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine, 10 Christians should be rounded up and sent to jail.

i myself am half iranian and i fully support this, viva laaaaaaaaa revolution!

[The_Prince]

secondly, as an Iranian i say these type of people are a threat to Iran, Iran is an Islamic country, there is no place for evangelicals, you want to convert, go live in Rome, if that sounds bad, i dont care. you can see the evangelical garbage comming from this article, these american zionist cronies are a cancer who come as satans trying to convert the people, to destroy the foundation of the country. arrest them all.

also need i remind some of you, some of you think this is Iran being bad, i suggest you all go learn Islam then, in a true Islamic state there is no such thing as leaving your religion, and christians arent allowed to preach their nonsense to us. is this oppression? not at all, would you let drug dealers come to your children, and allow your children to become drug dealers? no you wouldnt, some will say this analogy is strong and how can i compare christianity with this? lets not forget, were Muslims, a true Muslim believes if your not Muslim and dont follow Islam then hellfire awaits you, hence your playing with people's salvation by allowing cancerous missionaries and preachers to preach their religion to you, its worst than drugs itself. hence you must protect the state and people from this poison.

just look at izyan, a prime example of what happens when you let these cancers roam freely, all he likes to do is attack Islam and Muslims, yet when other threads are made against Christianity he goes crazy like a satan because he feels Muslims have no right to critique others, only he does. and this is the trash you want to protect and say yes yes you have right to do what you want.............

Islam taught you people to build fortresses to defend yourselves and cities, from who? from enemies, logically this also means you dont let the enemies come from within, but some of you dont seem to know this, and shout freedommmmmmm they can bash, convert, leave Islam and do whatever they want, says who? your insignificant opinions? well the prophet himself said one day ppl will rule with their opinions, so not surprised there.

again i repeat, anyone who studies Islam, and a true Islamic state, will then know people dont have a right to leave the religion without a punishment, and christians jews whatever you be dont have a right to preach their religion to Muslims, this makes some of you shy. why? why be shy of God's truth? your shy a kaffir might say ohhhhhhhhhhhh this sounds so meannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. you should be more shy this kaffir rejects Allah and his last messenger, offcourse in these days Muslims care more about appeasing their kaffir masters..................and then u all complain why were backwards and so low? its because were hypocrites and the lowest of the low, were so shy of our religion, we dont care about falsehood anymore, we only care about modifying our religion to make none Muslims happy.

also since some ppl are so willfully ignorant they will think this is taliban like, if you think this then you are very stupid and dont even deserve a response. thank you. :)

[Umar001]

I dont get what the Brs above me are saying about unislamic and so forth.

Anyhow, I think one sad thing, it stated: '“Seeing Muslims converting to Christianity is directly threatening to an Islamic regime,” said Moeller.' Boy if people only stay with you as a ruler for your religion then there may bea problem with your ruling style.

[The_Prince]

btw, an Islamic state grants freedom of religion, make no mistake, however it doesnt allow you to preach to the Muslims, nor try to convert them, and doesnt allow you to have your churches and places of worship and centers in Muslim areas. yet you can remain a Christian, Jew, or whatever. here is a very good article on a none Muslim status in the Islamic state:

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/th..._islamic_state

[Izyan]

this is funny, a news report comming from a biased evangelical org, yes how reliable they are! even if its true who cares, they should round and arrest you as well izyan you islamophobic trash.

how many innocent Muslims get arrested in the west as well as Muslim countries by westerners for no reason other than being Muslim? eye for an eye, this should continue, for every innocent Muslim wrongfully arrested in the west, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine, 10 Christians should be rounded up and sent to jail.

i myself am half iranian and i fully support this, viva laaaaaaaaa revolution!

How am I islamophobic? Give me an example. Why should I be arrested? I've committed no crime and is no threat.

[Izyan]

secondly, as an Iranian i say these type of people are a threat to Iran, Iran is an Islamic country, there is no place for evangelicals, you want to convert, go live in Rome, if that sounds bad, i dont care. you can see the evangelical garbage comming from this article, these american zionist cronies are a cancer who come as satans trying to convert the people, to destroy the foundation of the country. arrest them all.

also need i remind some of you, some of you think this is Iran being bad, i suggest you all go learn Islam then, in a true Islamic state there is no such thing as leaving your religion, and christians arent allowed to preach their nonsense to us. is this oppression? not at all, would you let drug dealers come to your children, and allow your children to become drug dealers? no you wouldnt, some will say this analogy is strong and how can i compare christianity with this? lets not forget, were Muslims, a true Muslim believes if your not Muslim and dont follow Islam then hellfire awaits you, hence your playing with people's salvation by allowing cancerous missionaries and preachers to preach their religion to you, its worst than drugs itself. hence you must protect the state and people from this poison.

just look at izyan, a prime example of what happens when you let these cancers roam freely, all he likes to do is attack Islam and Muslims, yet when other threads are made against Christianity he goes crazy like a satan because he feels Muslims have no right to critique others, only he does. and this is the trash you want to protect and say yes yes you have right to do what you want.............

Islam taught you people to build fortresses to defend yourselves and cities, from who? from enemies, logically this also means you dont let the enemies come from within, but some of you dont seem to know this, and shout freedommmmmmm they can bash, convert, leave Islam and do whatever they want, says who? your insignificant opinions? well the prophet himself said one day ppl will rule with their opinions, so not surprised there.

again i repeat, anyone who studies Islam, and a true Islamic state, will then know people dont have a right to leave the religion without a punishment, and christians jews whatever you be dont have a right to preach their religion to Muslims, this makes some of you shy. why? why be shy of God's truth? your shy a kaffir might say ohhhhhhhhhhhh this sounds so meannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. you should be more shy this kaffir rejects Allah and his last messenger, offcourse in these days Muslims care more about appeasing their kaffir masters..................and then u all complain why were backwards and so low? its because were hypocrites and the lowest of the low, were so shy of our religion, we dont care about falsehood anymore, we only care about modifying our religion to make none Muslims happy.

also since some ppl are so willfully ignorant they will think this is taliban like, if you think this then you are very stupid and dont even deserve a response. thank you. :)

Wow it's been a long time since I've been compared to satan. You sound like my dad. Most of your post is an attak against me so all I have to say is Assalamu 'Alaikum.

[Izyan]

btw, an Islamic state grants freedom of religion, make no mistake, however it doesnt allow you to preach to the Muslims, nor try to convert them, and doesnt allow you to have your churches and places of worship and centers in Muslim areas. yet you can remain a Christian, Jew, or whatever. here is a very good article on a none Muslim status in the Islamic state:

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/th..._islamic_state

That's like saying yeah you can shave but it has to be between 1 am and 1:05 and you can't use anything sharp.

[Malaikah]

That's like saying yeah you can shave but it has to be between 1 am and 1:05 and you can't use anything sharp.

No it isn't... it is no were near close to that.

[Ayoub]

I have a question; according to the Quran is Iran allowed to jail these people? :S

[Izyan]

I have a question; according to the Quran is Iran allowed to jail these people? :S

They are allowed to but not under the Islamic banner because Iran is not an Islamic state

[Questfortruth]

Its un-Quranic nonsense like this that stagnate the development of these nations.

Modernist?

[Izyan]

No it isn't... it is no were near close to that.

No? What would you say if I said you can be muslim but you can't talk to people about Islam, Can't build any mosques, display and Islamic material, can't repair any Mosques that were already built. By the way you have to pay a special tax or we can't be reponsible for what might happen to you.

[Questfortruth]

I have a question; according to the Quran is Iran allowed to jail these people? :S

As far as I heard if a muslim leaves his/her religion then they are offered to take the Shahada and learn the religion. If the person still rejects Islam then he/she is given the death penalty.

[Izyan]

As far as I heard if a muslim leaves his/her religion then they are offered to take the Shahada and learn the religion. If the person still rejects Islam then he/she is given the death penalty.

In an Islamic state. Iran is not an Islamic state.

[Questfortruth]

In an Islamic state. Iran is not an Islamic state.

Does it really matter if Iran is Islamic state or not? It could be just Iranian law.

[MTAFFI]

No? What would you say if I said you can be muslim but you can't talk to people about Islam, Can't build any mosques, display and Islamic material, can't repair any Mosques that were already built. By the way you have to pay a special tax or we can't be reponsible for what might happen to you.

if i lived in a country where that is the law and didnt like it, then i would simply move to a different country :D

[MTAFFI]

while The_Prince put it out there in a bit more blunt or unconventional way than I would have, I agree with him.

[Izyan]

while The_Prince put it out there in a bit more blunt or unconventional way than I would have, I agree with him.

That's not always easy. It's difficult to move to a different state let alone a new country. Financially, logistically, emotionally.

[Keltoi]

I find it a bit unsettling when a religion feels the need to enforce "faith" with threats of violence...whether it is called "law" or not.

I also find it a bit dubious that so many Muslims seem to attack Christianity for its missionary activity but seem quite comfortable with threats of violence or death by some Muslim leaders for any attempt to leave the religion of Islam.

[Azy]

Dubious is putting in mildly.

Mtaffi - that's just not a solution. What if noone will grant you entry? What if there are no countries where you agree with the laws?
"We cannot allow you to believe what you like, so you must flee or die".

Its un-Quranic nonsense like this that stagnate the development of these nations.

...and what stagnates the perception of Islam everwhere else.

I'm not sure what these guys were thinking or what should be the true perception of a religion that punishes conversion with death. Perhaps they were overawed with the message of peace.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Well we all know Muslims don't take kindly to those that change religion. So, I do wonder what their fate will be. Why does it matter so much if a person decides to change faiths!

*BTW - We need a rolling eyes icon*

[AvarAllahNoor]

As far as I heard if a muslim leaves his/her religion then they are offered to take the Shahada and learn the religion. If the person still rejects Islam then he/she is given the death penalty.

And is is acceptable to muslims?

[MTAFFI]

That's not always easy. It's difficult to move to a different state let alone a new country. Financially, logistically, emotionally.

it is difficult for drug users in the US to move to amsterdam where it is legal to use drugs, but that is still the law and while they are here they must abide by it..

[MTAFFI]

Dubious is putting in mildly.

Mtaffi - that's just not a solution. What if noone will grant you entry? What if there are no countries where you agree with the laws?
"We cannot allow you to believe what you like, so you must flee or die".


I'm not sure what these guys were thinking or what should be the true perception of a religion that punishes conversion with death. Perhaps they were overawed with the message of peace.

it is a self proclaimed islamic country, if converting your religion matters so much to you that you are willing to break the law, surely it would matter enough to find a new place to live?

Perhaps it is the message of peace that "overawes" people, it certainly is a big help for me..

[Idris]

Originally Posted by Questfortruth
As far as I heard if a muslim leaves his/her religion then they are offered to take the Shahada and learn the religion. If the person still rejects Islam then he/she is given the death penalty.

And is is acceptable to muslims?

Yes.

[The_Prince]

How am I islamophobic? Give me an example. Why should I be arrested? I've committed no crime and is no threat.

you complain when someone makes a thread talking about christian priests, then you come make a post to attack Iran? give me a break, dont play games i know ppl like you in and out, TRUST ME ON THAT. peeps like you have become so predictable to me your like a show playing out a script.

on top of that you quote a biased missionary evangelical?! and you want to act like you dont have an agenda? who writessssssssssss this stuff?!

[The_Prince]

Wow it's been a long time since I've been compared to satan. You sound like my dad. Most of your post is an attak against me so all I have to say is Assalamu 'Alaikum.

actually the entire statement wasnt specifically against you, some parts were, and some other parts of the statement were general. also calling someone a satan just means hes a very evil person.

[Izyan]

you complain when someone makes a thread talking about christian priests, then you come make a post to attack Iran? give me a break, dont play games i know ppl like you in and out, TRUST ME ON THAT. peeps like you have become so predictable to me your like a show playing out a script.

on top of that you quote a biased missionary evangelical?! and you want to act like you dont have an agenda? who writessssssssssss this stuff?!

I was told if I didn't like that thread to create my own and wait for it to be approved. That's what I did.

[Izyan]

actually the entire statement wasnt specifically against you, some parts were, and some other parts of the statement were general. also calling someone a satan just means hes a very evil person.

In what way am I evil? I don't engage in violence. I don't do anything to harm people. I donate money and time to people. I mentor the youth. I do my best to honor God. How am I evil?

[Questfortruth]

And is is acceptable to muslims?

If I rejected any law of Islam I would not be Muslim anymore.

[Keltoi]

So basically most of the Muslims who have posted on this thread see no problem with executing those who no longer with to be Muslim... I find that to be troubling and I hope I'm not the only one.

[Cabdullahi]

Christianity was a true religion that taught to believe in one god and not three different gods,christanity today is based on false pretenses and whoever becomes a christian all his good deeds will not be excepted and allah will deal with them, and also if the country is not safe for you to stay then just leave or maybe these christian iranians can wait for one of the many christian organisation for help to move possibly to america and there they can worship 'mary' , 'jesus' god' and 'ghost' the little helper with all the freedom they want

[Trumble]

christanity today is based on false pretenses

Unless, of course, they are right and you are wrong. Which is why this is all so pathetic, of course.... if indeed all their good deeds should count for nothing just because they become Christians (a concept I find utterly ludicrous) then God will indeed take care of them in His own way. There is no need for the intervention of the thought police, who should be resisted whenever and wherever they appear. Next time it might be believing what you do that some fool tries to make a capital offence.

Is Islam in Iran really so feeble it needs this sort of threat to stop people converting to another religion?

[Cabdullahi]

Unless, of course, they are right and you are wrong. Which is why this is all so pathetic, of course.... if indeed all their good deeds should count for nothing just because they become Christians (a concept I find utterly ludicrous) then God will indeed take care of them in His own way. There is no need for the intervention of the thought police, who should be resisted whenever and wherever they appear. Next time it might be believing what you do that some fool tries to make a capital offence.

Is Islam in Iran really so feeble it needs this sort of threat to stop people converting to another religion?

If you find the concept utterly ludicrous then good for you because nobody really cares and you are right let allah deal with them,i will tell you one thing though i remember just before the iraq war similar news reports surfaced about how iraq violated human right laws and then suprise suprise the country got occupied and now the same propaganda is being used for iran first they said they slaughter the homosexuals and now it seems they are killing the christians any excuse is being put together to make the country look bad but if there was ever any true democracy in this world then america should be prosecuted for their violations of human right laws also!

[Questfortruth]

if indeed all their good deeds should count for nothing just because they become Christians (a concept I find utterly ludicrous)

The person that left Islam for Christianty has commited an injustice towards Allah by giving him partners. Allah is only one and cannot have partners.

[Questfortruth]

So basically most of the Muslims who have posted on this thread see no problem with executing those who no longer with to be Muslim... I find that to be troubling and I hope I'm not the only one.

What I find troubling is murderist, rapist, drug dealers and evil people in American society are not executed. Instead they are placed in prison for couple years then back on streets to commit the same crime or worse. I find this to be more troubling and i hope I'm not the only one.

[Gator]

Actually, we atheists, due to our small demographic share, have seen the wisdom of this edict and decided to institute the death penalty for anyone who leaves atheism (and have just decided to kill agnostics outright on principle).

Thank you for your time.

And I do speak for all atheists in toto no matter what anyone else says.

[arabianprincess]

So basically most of the Muslims who have posted on this thread see no problem with executing those who no longer with to be Muslim... I find that to be troubling and I hope I'm not the only one.

yes we dont see any problem n that is because god sets his rules.. n we fallow .. u cant pick n choooooooseeeeeeeeeeee ... this how it is ... god knowssssss wat best... n under islamic law ... they r given amount of time to come back if not the they r killed.. bottom line.. i believe if someone wanna converts just leave the country..................///// this state is for muslim... u wanna live there then do .. but with our rules if not .. go some where else .. where religion is sperated from the country... wa bas ..s alamz

[Keltoi]

yes we dont see any problem n that is because god sets his rules.. n we fallow .. u cant pick n choooooooseeeeeeeeeeee ... this how it is ... god knowssssss wat best... n under islamic law ... they r given amount of time to come back if not the they r killed.. bottom line.. i believe if someone wanna converts just leave the country..................///// this state is for muslim... u wanna live there then do .. but with our rules if not .. go some where else .. where religion is sperated from the country... wa bas ..s alamz

So Allah commanded that anyone who converts from Islam is to be executed? Could you post the appropriate verse?

[Gator]

arabianprincess,

But in your heart, the heart that Allah gave you, does that feel like justice?

Thanks.

[kirk]

how many innocent Muslims get arrested in the west by westerners for no reason other than being Muslim?

None. But your comments teach us how Muslims think.

these american zionist cronies are a cancer who come

Errrm. These are Iranian Christians converting other Iranians
k

[kirk]

here is a very good article on a non-Muslim status in the Islamic state:

Thank you. It means I could never live in an Islamic state. Not could many others.

It means the whole world could never be Islamic at the same time.

In the eyes of Islam, the Non-Muslim who preaches his faith is worse than a drug dealer selling drugs. If the drug dealer happens to convince someone to buy his drugs then the most harm that could possibly be inflicted on the person is that his carnal body dies from overdose.

Wow! Coming to this forum teaches us so much about Islam!
k

[snakelegs]

So Allah commanded that anyone who converts from Islam is to be executed? Could you post the appropriate verse?

there is nothing in the qur'an about killing apostates - in fact the qur'an makes it clear that god will do the punishing.
but there are some hadiths that call for the death sentence.
btw, i'm suprised that under the current law in iran, there is no death penalty for leaving islam. (see OP)

[snakelegs]

None. But your comments teach us how Muslims think.

don't you think this is rather dopey?
i didn't know that The_Prince has been made Official Spokesman for islam. :muddlehea

[The_Prince]

None. But your comments teach us how Muslims think.




Errrm. These are Iranian Christians converting other Iranians
k

none? your an atheist liar, Muslims are constantly harrased just because of their names, and just because of how they look. its not a coincidence its not happening to none Muslims but primarily to Muslims, if they werent Muslims they wouldnt be arrested or harrased.

[The_Prince]

[QUOTE=kirk;954789]None. But your comments teach us how Muslims think.

better than how an atheist thinks

your comment also shows how bigoted you are, im a Muslim, not muslimS, im one man, im not a trinity, im not made of 3 persons, or 20 persons, i dont have a group, i repeat one man. so from where do you get muslimS from my one opinion?

lol you see how easily you expose yourself as a low trash bigot? you want to generalize all MuslimS just because of ONE Muslim being myself, but in point of fact, you prove everything i say is true, and all my opinions are justified, thank you veryyyyyy much.

and who is US? i wanna know who is the US your referring to? atheists? christians? funny how a low trash atheist as yourself will side with the christians, the very same christians you constantly mock, and bash, it shows how you have no honour really. and if this US is referring to atheists, then lol quite frankly an atheists opinion to me is worth 1 fils, and if you dont know what fils is which i bet you dont, then go learn what it is and you will see how low that is.

or is this US referring to every None-Muslim? again your not an US since the christians and hindus arent on the atheists side, and vice versa, but funny when you need their help you act like your allies. lol too funny if you ask me.

you see your so ignorant and brain dead you think this is Islam or Muslims vs the World, lol and how wrong you are, i know christians who jhate jews and israel with a passionnnnnnnnnnnn. and there are many many millions of hindus in india who cant stand christians and missionaries and are oppressing them right now. i could go on and on and on, but since your so stupid (sorry to admins but this guy needs to be put in his place) you dont know any of this, you live in your own brainwashed fox news brain, my oh my you have much to learn, muchhhhhhhhhh to learn.

[The_Prince]

Thank you. It means I could never live in an Islamic state. Not could many others.

It means the whole world could never be Islamic at the same time.




Wow! Coming to this forum teaches us so much about Islam!
k

again who is the whole world? 1 in 5 humans is a Muslim, and rising, so wrong its not the WHOLE world, you bigoted buffoon stop acting like you speak for the world, of all ppl an atheist wants to act like he speaks for theists, most theists wouldnt be able to live in an atheistic world neither such as communist china and former communist russia.

so you an atheist, you dont speak for humanity, and you never will, unless you plan to do what stalin, and mao did, 2 atheists. :)

[aadil77]

again who is the whole world? 1 in 5 humans is a Muslim, and rising, so wrong its not the WHOLE world, you bigoted buffoon stop acting like you speak for the world, of all ppl an atheist wants to act like he speaks for theists, most theists wouldnt be able to live in an atheistic world neither such as communist china and former communist russia.

so you an atheist, you dont speak for humanity, and you never will, unless you plan to do what stalin, and mao did, 2 atheists. :)

more than 1 in 4 actually

[AvarAllahNoor]

Yes.

How the hell can you justify killing those that don't accept Islam as their religion?! You're bloody insane! :raging:

[AvarAllahNoor]

If I rejected any law of Islam I would not be Muslim anymore.

Obviously, but if you choose to change religion then being forced to remain within it, or face death, well that's ridiculous! :enough!:

[Izyan]

more than 1 in 4 actually

Yeah but how many are true muslims and not just muslim in name? For many years I was considered muslim but in my heart it wasn't so.

[MTAFFI]

Yeah but how many are true muslims and not just muslim in name? For many years I was considered muslim but in my heart it wasn't so.

yeah, the same could be said of christians, for many years i was christian but in my heart it wasnt so

[Gator]

My view is that 80% of humanity just want to live and they adopt whatever the cultural norms are, be it muslim, christian, etc. They go through the motions but are more interested in getting by and living.

15% are true believers and 5% are hardcore nuts.

[MTAFFI]

My view is that 80% of humanity just want to live and they adopt whatever the cultural norms are, be it muslim, christian, etc. They go through the motions but are more interested in getting by and living.

15% are true believers and 5% are hardcore nuts.

i take it you did an in depth study on this, surveyed countries around the globe and got specific reactions and responses from different territories and regions in order to deduce your post ;D.... j/k I always love pulling number out of the air, I think it is 20% and 4.26907%

[Gator]

HA! 83% of statistics are made up on the spot.

But seriously, just my opinion from what I've seen of the world. I didn't claim its a poll, its just my view of what I've seen around me.

Do you agree or disagree? There are different levels of how people follow faiths. Do you think there will ever be a time when all of humanity will be devout? I find that doubtful.

[MTAFFI]

HA! 83% of statistics are made up on the spot.

But seriously, just my opinion from what I've seen of the world. I didn't claim its a poll, its just my view of what I've seen around me.

Do you agree or disagree? There are different levels of how people follow faiths. Do you think there will ever be a time when all of humanity will be devout? I find that doubtful.

50% of all statistics can be made to say anything..50% of the time..lol (funny commercial, dont know if you have seen it)

I think that right now, yes there are many different levels of how people follow their faith, as far as a percentage, I am not one to judge because other than on this forum and with a few colleagues I dont discuss it much, particularly when traveling to other countries. I find it can be very touchy.

I do believe that after the dajaal has come and is defeated that afterwards the entire world will follow Islam.

[Idris]

Originally Posted by Questfortruth
As far as I heard if a muslim leaves his/her religion then they are offered to take the Shahada and learn the religion. If the person still rejects Islam then he/she is given the death penalty.

And is is acceptable to muslims?

Yes.

How the hell can you justify killing those that don't accept Islam as their religion?! You're bloody insane! :raging:

Do not take me out of context sneaky one.

[Idris]

Why death is the punishment for Apostasy

Alslamualik

This question has bees asked several time from non-Muslims and I want to find an answer: Why When the Muslim convert to another religion(Murtad) he/she should be killed?



Praise be to Allaah.

Your question may be answered by the following points:

(1) This is the ruling of Allaah and His Messenger, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).

(2) The one who has known the religion which Allaah revealed, entered it and practised it, then rejected it, despised it and left it, is a person who does not deserve to live on the earth of Allaah and eat from the provision of Allaah.

(3) By leaving Islaam, the apostate opens the way for everyone who wants to leave the faith, thus spreading apostasy and encouraging it.

(4) The apostate is not to be killed without warning. Even though his crime is so great, he is given a last chance, a respite of three days in which to repent. If he repents, he will be left alone; if he does not repent, then he will be killed.

(5) If the punishment for murder and espionage (also known as high treason) is death, then what should be the punishment for the one who disbelieves in the Lord of mankind and despises and rejects His religion? Is espionage or shedding blood worse than leaving the religion of the Lord of mankind and rejecting it?

(6) None of those who bleat about personal freedom and freedom of belief would put up with a neighbour’s child hitting their child or justify this as "personal freedom," so how can they justify leaving the true religion and rejecting the sharee’ah which Allaah revealed to teach mankind about His unity and bring justice and fairness to all?

We ask Allaah for safety and health. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad .




Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

[Izyan]

Why death is the punishment for Apostasy

Alslamualik

This question has bees asked several time from non-Muslims and I want to find an answer: Why When the Muslim convert to another religion(Murtad) he/she should be killed?



Praise be to Allaah.

Your question may be answered by the following points:

(1) This is the ruling of Allaah and His Messenger, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).

(2) The one who has known the religion which Allaah revealed, entered it and practised it, then rejected it, despised it and left it, is a person who does not deserve to live on the earth of Allaah and eat from the provision of Allaah.

(3) By leaving Islaam, the apostate opens the way for everyone who wants to leave the faith, thus spreading apostasy and encouraging it.

(4) The apostate is not to be killed without warning. Even though his crime is so great, he is given a last chance, a respite of three days in which to repent. If he repents, he will be left alone; if he does not repent, then he will be killed.

(5) If the punishment for murder and espionage (also known as high treason) is death, then what should be the punishment for the one who disbelieves in the Lord of mankind and despises and rejects His religion? Is espionage or shedding blood worse than leaving the religion of the Lord of mankind and rejecting it?

(6) None of those who bleat about personal freedom and freedom of belief would put up with a neighbour’s child hitting their child or justify this as "personal freedom," so how can they justify leaving the true religion and rejecting the sharee’ah which Allaah revealed to teach mankind about His unity and bring justice and fairness to all?

We ask Allaah for safety and health. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad .




Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

Good thing I'm where I am or you guys would be deprieved of my insightful posts forever.

[arabianprincess]

So Allah commanded that anyone who converts from Islam is to be executed? Could you post the appropriate verse?

... in islam.. there is somethin called hadeeth its the prophet sayings n i know there isnt a quranic verse,,,, but the hadeeth came to explain more of wat to do! n if u dont believe in the hadeeth .. then obviously ur not a muslim in general... :blind:
Al-Irtidaad (to renegade from Islam)

The religion of Islam is the most perfect and complete religion. The laws of Islam are flawlessly designed by Allah. These laws of Islam are for the benefit and of mankind.

Islam induces unity and always condemns division and sects.

Once a person accepts Islam, he sees its beauty and perfection. If after seeing the beauty of Islam, a Muslim turns away from it, it means he turned away from perfection towards imperfection, disassociating himself from the unity of the Muslims ummah towards a way that is unacceptable by Allah.

Allah always wishes good for His servants. By one accepting Islam, he will be Insha Allah entitled to paradise. However, after accepting Islam, one turns renegade, it means he has become entitled to Jahannam (Hell). This is not what Allah wishes for His servants. To prevent more people from becoming true candidates of the fire of Hell, Allah legislated a deterrent for it, i.e. the law of execution.

This law of executing the renegade is a unanimously accepted rule according to all Muslims.

Al-Hadith

Sayyiduna Ibn Abbaas radhi allahu anhuma says: Nabi sallalahu alayhi wasallam said "Execute the one who renegades from his Deen." (Sahih al-Bukhariy Hadith6299, Sunan al-Nasaa’iy Hadith4059 edited by Shaikh Abdul Fattah Abu Ghuddah)

Sayyiduna ‘Uthmaan radhiyallahu anhu narrates hearing Nabi Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam as saying "……The one who changes his religion after accepting Islam must be executed." (Sunan al-Nasaa’iy Hadith4057 edited by Shaikh Abdul Fattah Abu Ghuddah)

Sayyiduna Abdullah radhiallahu anhu narrates Nabi Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam as saying "It is not Halaal to kill a Muslim except for 3 reason: …no.3.The one that turns away from his Deen, thereby disassociating himself from the group of Muslims."(Sahih Muslim Hadith4351 edited by Shaikh Khalil ma’moon Sheeha)

Ijma’

The one who renegades from Islam must be executed is the unanimous verdict of the sahaaba, none of them rejected it.

The unanimity of the Sahaaba on an issue is conclusive evidence of the same.

The Fuqaha (Jurists)

All the 4 Mazhabs are unanimous that a renegade must be executed if he does not revert to Islam. Hereunder are classical texts from each of the 4 Mazhabs:

Al-Hanafiyyah

Imam al-Marghinaaniy says: "If a Muslim, may Allah forbid turns away from Islam, the religion of Islam should be presented to him. If he has any doubts they should be cleared…and he should be kept under supervision for 3 days. If he reverts to Islam, he must be set free, otherwise he should be executed. (Al-Hidaya)

Allamah Ibn ‘Aabideen says: "Note well! It is unanimous that a renegade from Islam must be executed" (Rasaa’il Ibn Aabideen)

Al-Maalikiyyah

Imam Maalik says: "The one who renegades from Islam to another religion and exposes it will be asked to repent from his action. If he does not repent, he must be executed." (Al-Mu’atta lil Imam Maalik)

Al-shaafi’iyyah

Imam al-Shaafi’iy says: "One who renegades from Islam will not be left alone, either he reverts to Islam or he will be executed." (Kitab al-Umm)



Al-Hanaabilah

Allamah Ibn Qudaama al-Hanbaliy says: "All the scholars are unanimous that a renegade must be executed." (Al-Mughniy with Sharh al-Kabir Vol.10 Pg.74 Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyyah Beirut)

From the above it is explicitly clear that there is no leeway in the religion of Islam regarding executing a renegade from Islam.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

[arabianprincess]

arabianprincess,

But in your heart, the heart that Allah gave you, does that feel like justice?

Thanks.

yes it is ... n i shouldnt be sayin if sometihn is justice or not... hes the creater he knows best,... its simple... ,,.,, ur a muslim .. u fallow alll the rules..u cant just pick n chooooooose ... if ppl started to do that then its a a human religion.. if i was gonna be that then y stay a muslim might as well go to be a christian or a hindo. u cant be like oh im a muslim .. n i drink... now thats not a true muslimm ... that wat we call them monafqeen or wat i call em .. ( FAKE A**)