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MTAFFI
06-03-2008, 06:02 PM
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

AP tally: Obama effectively clinches nomination
Jun 3 01:40 PM US/Eastern


WASHINGTON (AP) - Barack Obama effectively clinched the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday, based on an Associated Press tally of convention delegates, becoming the first black candidate ever to lead his party into a fall campaign for the White House.

Campaigning on an insistent call for change, Obama outlasted former first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton in a historic race that sparked record turnout in primary after primary, yet exposed deep racial divisions within the party.

The AP tally was based on public commitments from delegates as well as more than a dozen private commitments. It also included a minimum number of delegates Obama was guaranteed even if he lost the final two primaries in South Dakota and Montana later in the day.

The 46-year-old first-term senator will face Sen. John McCain of Arizona in the fall campaign to become the 44th president.

Clinton was ready to concede that her rival had amassed the delegates needed to triumph, according to officials in her campaign. These officials said the New York senator did not intend to suspend or end her candidacy in a speech Tuesday night in New York. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they had not been authorized to divulge her plans.

Obama's triumph was fashioned on prodigious fundraising, meticulous organizing and his theme of change aimed at an electorate opposed to the Iraq war and worried about the economy—all harnessed to his own innate gifts as a campaigner.

Clinton campaigned for months as the candidate of experience, a former first lady and second-term senator ready, she said, to take over on Day One.

But after a year on the trail, Obama won the kickoff Iowa caucuses on Jan. 3, and the freshman senator became something of an overnight political phenomenon.

"We came together as Democrats, as Republicans and independents, to stand up and say we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has come," he said that night in Des Moines.

A video produced by Will I. Am and built around Obama's "Yes, we can" rallying cry quickly went viral. It drew its one millionth hit within a few days of being posted.

As the strongest female presidential candidate in history, Clinton drew large, enthusiastic audiences. Yet Obama's were bigger still. One audience, in Dallas, famously cheered when he blew his nose on stage; a crowd of 75,000 turned out in Portland, Ore., the weekend before the state's May 20 primary.

The former first lady countered Obama's Iowa victory with an upset five days later in New Hampshire that set the stage for a campaign marathon as competitive as any in the last generation.

"Over the last week I listened to you, and in the process I found my own voice," she told supporters who had saved her candidacy from an early demise.

In defeat, Obama's aides concluded they had committed a cardinal sin of New Hampshire politics, forsaking small, intimate events in favor of speeches to large audiences inviting them to ratify Iowa's choice.

It was not a mistake they made again—which helped explain Obama's later outings to bowling alleys, backyard basketball hoops and American Legion halls in the heartland.

Clinton conceded nothing, memorably knocking back a shot of Crown Royal whiskey at a bar in Indiana, recalling that her grandfather had taught her to use a shotgun, and driving in a pickup to a gas station in South Bend, Ind., to emphasize her support for a summertime suspension of the federal gasoline tax.

As other rivals quickly fell away in winter, the strongest black candidate in history and the strongest female White House contender traded victories on Super Tuesday, the Feb. 5 series of primaries and caucuses across 21 states and American Samoa that once seemed likely to settle the nomination.

But Clinton had a problem that Obama exploited, and he scored a coup she could not answer.

Pressed for cash, the former first lady ran noncompetitive campaigns in several Super Tuesday caucus states, allowing her rival to run up his delegate totals.

At the same time, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., endorsed the young senator in terms that summoned memories of his slain brothers, yet sought to turn the page on the Clinton era.

Kennedy said in a reference to former President Clinton: "There was another time, when another young candidate was running for president and challenging America to cross a new frontier. He faced criticism from the preceding Democratic president, who was widely respected in the party."

Merely by surviving Super Tuesday, Obama exceeded expectations.

But he did more than survive, emerging with a lead in delegates that he never relinquished, and proceeded to run off a string of 11 straight victories.

Clinton saved her candidacy once more with primary victories in Ohio and Texas on March 4, beginning a stretch in which she won primaries in six of the final nine states on the calendar.

It was a strong run, providing glimpses of what might have been for the one-time front-runner.

But by then Obama was well on his way to victory, Clinton and her allies stressed the popular vote instead of delegates. Yet he seemed to emerge from each loss with residual strength.

Obama's bigger-than-expected victory in North Carolina on May 6 offset his narrow defeat in Indiana the same day. Four days later, he overtook Clinton's lead among superdelegates, the party leaders she had hoped would award her the nomination on the basis of a strong showing in swing states.

Obama lost West Virginia by a whopping 67 percent to 26 percent on May 13. Yet he won an endorsement the following day from former presidential rival and one-time North Carolina Sen. John Edwards.

Clinton administered another drubbing in Kentucky a week later. This time, Obama countered with a victory in Oregon, and turned up that night in Iowa to say he had won a majority of all the delegates available in 56 primaries and caucuses on the calendar.

There were moments of anger, notably in a finger-wagging debate in South Carolina on Jan. 21.

Obama told the former first lady he was helping unemployed workers on the streets of Chicago when "you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board at Wal-Mart."

Moments later, Clinton said that she was fighting against misguided Republican policies "when you were practicing law and representing your contributor ... in his slum landlord business in inner city Chicago."

And Bill Clinton was a constant presence and an occasional irritant for Obama. The former president angered several black politicians when he seemed to diminish Obama's South Carolina triumph by noting that Jesse Jackson had also won the state.

Obama's frustration showed at the Jan. 21 debate, when he accused the former president in absentia of uttering a series of distortions.

"I'm here. He's not," the former first lady snapped.

"Well, I can't tell who I'm running against sometimes," Obama countered.

There were relatively few policy differences. Clinton accused Obama of backing a health care plan that would leave millions out, and the two clashed repeatedly over trade.

Yet race, religion, region and gender became political fault lines as the two campaigned from coast to coast.

Along the way, Obama showed an ability to weather the inevitable controversies, most notably one caused by the incendiary rhetoric of his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

At first, Obama said he could not break with his longtime spiritual adviser. Then, when Wright spoke out anew, Obama reversed course and denounced him strongly.

Clinton struggled with self-inflicted wounds. Most prominently, she claimed to have come under sniper fire as first lady more than a decade earlier while paying a visit to Bosnia.

Instead, videotapes showed her receiving a gift of flowers from a young girl who greeted her plane.


Here is looking at you Keltoi :D j/k.... Now the question is who will be the next president of the US, John McCain or Barack Obama and who will the VP's be?
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Izyan
06-04-2008, 01:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

AP tally: Obama effectively clinches nomination
Jun 3 01:40 PM US/Eastern


WASHINGTON (AP) - Barack Obama effectively clinched the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday, based on an Associated Press tally of convention delegates, becoming the first black candidate ever to lead his party into a fall campaign for the White House.

Campaigning on an insistent call for change, Obama outlasted former first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton in a historic race that sparked record turnout in primary after primary, yet exposed deep racial divisions within the party.

The AP tally was based on public commitments from delegates as well as more than a dozen private commitments. It also included a minimum number of delegates Obama was guaranteed even if he lost the final two primaries in South Dakota and Montana later in the day.

The 46-year-old first-term senator will face Sen. John McCain of Arizona in the fall campaign to become the 44th president.

Clinton was ready to concede that her rival had amassed the delegates needed to triumph, according to officials in her campaign. These officials said the New York senator did not intend to suspend or end her candidacy in a speech Tuesday night in New York. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they had not been authorized to divulge her plans.

Obama's triumph was fashioned on prodigious fundraising, meticulous organizing and his theme of change aimed at an electorate opposed to the Iraq war and worried about the economy—all harnessed to his own innate gifts as a campaigner.

Clinton campaigned for months as the candidate of experience, a former first lady and second-term senator ready, she said, to take over on Day One.

But after a year on the trail, Obama won the kickoff Iowa caucuses on Jan. 3, and the freshman senator became something of an overnight political phenomenon.

"We came together as Democrats, as Republicans and independents, to stand up and say we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has come," he said that night in Des Moines.

A video produced by Will I. Am and built around Obama's "Yes, we can" rallying cry quickly went viral. It drew its one millionth hit within a few days of being posted.

As the strongest female presidential candidate in history, Clinton drew large, enthusiastic audiences. Yet Obama's were bigger still. One audience, in Dallas, famously cheered when he blew his nose on stage; a crowd of 75,000 turned out in Portland, Ore., the weekend before the state's May 20 primary.

The former first lady countered Obama's Iowa victory with an upset five days later in New Hampshire that set the stage for a campaign marathon as competitive as any in the last generation.

"Over the last week I listened to you, and in the process I found my own voice," she told supporters who had saved her candidacy from an early demise.

In defeat, Obama's aides concluded they had committed a cardinal sin of New Hampshire politics, forsaking small, intimate events in favor of speeches to large audiences inviting them to ratify Iowa's choice.

It was not a mistake they made again—which helped explain Obama's later outings to bowling alleys, backyard basketball hoops and American Legion halls in the heartland.

Clinton conceded nothing, memorably knocking back a shot of Crown Royal whiskey at a bar in Indiana, recalling that her grandfather had taught her to use a shotgun, and driving in a pickup to a gas station in South Bend, Ind., to emphasize her support for a summertime suspension of the federal gasoline tax.

As other rivals quickly fell away in winter, the strongest black candidate in history and the strongest female White House contender traded victories on Super Tuesday, the Feb. 5 series of primaries and caucuses across 21 states and American Samoa that once seemed likely to settle the nomination.

But Clinton had a problem that Obama exploited, and he scored a coup she could not answer.

Pressed for cash, the former first lady ran noncompetitive campaigns in several Super Tuesday caucus states, allowing her rival to run up his delegate totals.

At the same time, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., endorsed the young senator in terms that summoned memories of his slain brothers, yet sought to turn the page on the Clinton era.

Kennedy said in a reference to former President Clinton: "There was another time, when another young candidate was running for president and challenging America to cross a new frontier. He faced criticism from the preceding Democratic president, who was widely respected in the party."

Merely by surviving Super Tuesday, Obama exceeded expectations.

But he did more than survive, emerging with a lead in delegates that he never relinquished, and proceeded to run off a string of 11 straight victories.

Clinton saved her candidacy once more with primary victories in Ohio and Texas on March 4, beginning a stretch in which she won primaries in six of the final nine states on the calendar.

It was a strong run, providing glimpses of what might have been for the one-time front-runner.

But by then Obama was well on his way to victory, Clinton and her allies stressed the popular vote instead of delegates. Yet he seemed to emerge from each loss with residual strength.

Obama's bigger-than-expected victory in North Carolina on May 6 offset his narrow defeat in Indiana the same day. Four days later, he overtook Clinton's lead among superdelegates, the party leaders she had hoped would award her the nomination on the basis of a strong showing in swing states.

Obama lost West Virginia by a whopping 67 percent to 26 percent on May 13. Yet he won an endorsement the following day from former presidential rival and one-time North Carolina Sen. John Edwards.

Clinton administered another drubbing in Kentucky a week later. This time, Obama countered with a victory in Oregon, and turned up that night in Iowa to say he had won a majority of all the delegates available in 56 primaries and caucuses on the calendar.

There were moments of anger, notably in a finger-wagging debate in South Carolina on Jan. 21.

Obama told the former first lady he was helping unemployed workers on the streets of Chicago when "you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board at Wal-Mart."

Moments later, Clinton said that she was fighting against misguided Republican policies "when you were practicing law and representing your contributor ... in his slum landlord business in inner city Chicago."

And Bill Clinton was a constant presence and an occasional irritant for Obama. The former president angered several black politicians when he seemed to diminish Obama's South Carolina triumph by noting that Jesse Jackson had also won the state.

Obama's frustration showed at the Jan. 21 debate, when he accused the former president in absentia of uttering a series of distortions.

"I'm here. He's not," the former first lady snapped.

"Well, I can't tell who I'm running against sometimes," Obama countered.

There were relatively few policy differences. Clinton accused Obama of backing a health care plan that would leave millions out, and the two clashed repeatedly over trade.

Yet race, religion, region and gender became political fault lines as the two campaigned from coast to coast.

Along the way, Obama showed an ability to weather the inevitable controversies, most notably one caused by the incendiary rhetoric of his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

At first, Obama said he could not break with his longtime spiritual adviser. Then, when Wright spoke out anew, Obama reversed course and denounced him strongly.

Clinton struggled with self-inflicted wounds. Most prominently, she claimed to have come under sniper fire as first lady more than a decade earlier while paying a visit to Bosnia.

Instead, videotapes showed her receiving a gift of flowers from a young girl who greeted her plane.


Here is looking at you Keltoi :D j/k.... Now the question is who will be the next president of the US, John McCain or Barack Obama and who will the VP's be?
McCain because Clinton supporters has made it clear in public, on tv that they will not support Obama. That if he was white he wouldn't have won the nomination. That Obama camp was being sexist.
Reply

MTAFFI
06-04-2008, 01:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
McCain because Clinton supporters has made it clear in public, on tv that they will not support Obama. That if he was white he wouldn't have won the nomination. That Obama camp was being sexist.
who are you thinking the VP's will be? I think that many Clinton supporters wont vote for Obama but that certainly doesnt mean none of them will and obviously McCain has a following, but Obama has brought record numbers to the polls.. I think it will be a very close election, I also think a lot of it has to do with who the VP's are in this case, it will probably be the next thing the media blows up...

I am not really sure who i am going to vote for right now, I have to hear what their plans and ideas and debates sound like
Reply

Izyan
06-04-2008, 01:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
who are you thinking the VP's will be? I think that many Clinton supporters wont vote for Obama but that certainly doesnt mean none of them will and obviously McCain has a following, but Obama has brought record numbers to the polls.. I think it will be a very close election, I also think a lot of it has to do with who the VP's are in this case, it will probably be the next thing the media blows up...

I am not really sure who i am going to vote for right now, I have to hear what their plans and ideas and debates sound like
Even though the party leaders are putting pressure on Obama to select Clinton it won't happen. She burned that bridge. Once again Clinton supporters has specificly said they're voting for McCain. If you count Clinton supporters and Independents it's a landslide. As for VP keep a close eye on a Southern white Male. Possibly McCain
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Güven
06-04-2008, 01:38 PM
Whos is better Mccain Or Obama ????
Reply

Ayoub
06-04-2008, 01:48 PM
Yay! Go Obama! Boo Hillary! :) :)
Reply

MTAFFI
06-04-2008, 02:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
Even though the party leaders are putting pressure on Obama to select Clinton it won't happen. She burned that bridge. Once again Clinton supporters has specificly said they're voting for McCain. If you count Clinton supporters and Independents it's a landslide. As for VP keep a close eye on a Southern white Male. Possibly McCain
When did every Clinton supporter specifically say they are voting McCain? I know many will, but as I said before certainly not every one of them. If you look at the polls, Obama is beating McCain or at the least tying him in every poll, there was only a short period back with the Wright deal that McCain pulled out in front in anything. I think it would be very neophytic to assume that this election will in any way be a landslide.. When was the last time McCain had a crowd of 75,000 people come to hear him speak?

By the southern white male, I assume you are talking about John Edwards with Obama? That was who I was thinking at least.. As for McCain, Condi Rice, Romney or Lieberman are all possible, it will be interesting to see
Reply

Keltoi
06-04-2008, 03:10 PM
Obama will need alot of help in the South, so picking a southern VP might give him a little boost. Personally I think Obama is going to have a difficult time in the general election. Obama gives a good speech, but when the debates start he is going to have to go into detail about his proposed policies and attempt to convince people he is more qualified than John McCain. Good luck with that.
Reply

Izyan
06-04-2008, 03:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
When did every Clinton supporter specifically say they are voting McCain? I know many will, but as I said before certainly not every one of them. If you look at the polls, Obama is beating McCain or at the least tying him in every poll, there was only a short period back with the Wright deal that McCain pulled out in front in anything. I think it would be very neophytic to assume that this election will in any way be a landslide.. When was the last time McCain had a crowd of 75,000 people come to hear him speak?

By the southern white male, I assume you are talking about John Edwards with Obama? That was who I was thinking at least.. As for McCain, Condi Rice, Romney or Lieberman are all possible, it will be interesting to see
You don't need every Clinton supporter swinging. 25% is enough. Huckabee had the VP slot sowed up til he made that stupid comment at the NRA rally about Obama. I'm betting on Romney or the wild card Hilary.
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Izyan
06-04-2008, 03:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Obama will need alot of help in the South, so picking a southern VP might give him a little boost. Personally I think Obama is going to have a difficult time in the general election. Obama gives a good speech, but when the debates start he is going to have to go into detail about his proposed policies and attempt to convince people he is more qualified than John McCain. Good luck with that.
VP candidates aew over rated when it comes to elections. The Democrats had a Texas politician as their VP candidate against GHW Bush and it did them no good. Edwards couldn't carry his own state against GW Bush.
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Keltoi
06-04-2008, 03:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
VP candidates aew over rated when it comes to elections. The Democrats had a Texas politician as their VP candidate against GHW Bush and it did them no good. Edwards couldn't carry his own state against GW Bush.
Perhaps I should have said a more centrist Southern VP candidate. Edwards is a mega-liberal. A mega-liberal will never carry the South. However, a more conservative Democrat might help carry places like Kentucky and South Carolina. Might being the operative word. It just depends on Obama's momentum.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
06-04-2008, 04:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Obama will need alot of help in the South, so picking a southern VP might give him a little boost. Personally I think Obama is going to have a difficult time in the general election. Obama gives a good speech, but when the debates start he is going to have to go into detail about his proposed policies and attempt to convince people he is more qualified than John McCain. Good luck with that.
I do hope the intelligent triumph over the mentally challenged americans this one time!
Reply

Ali.
06-04-2008, 04:25 PM
Obama holds great ideas for the US and his speeches are really good, I'm glad he got the nomination.

By the way, does anybody have any information about what he plans on doing to the troops in Iraq & Afghanistan? Today I heard he was planning to pull them out but I was really confused because I thought he planned otherwise :confused:?
Reply

Gator
06-04-2008, 04:25 PM
My opinion is Obama would win a general election. I disagree Mccain has an upper hand in debates.

Hillary may be the VP. She would be open to it. A lot of possibilities. Politics makes strange bedfellows.
Reply

MTAFFI
06-04-2008, 04:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
You don't need every Clinton supporter swinging. 25% is enough. Huckabee had the VP slot sowed up til he made that stupid comment at the NRA rally about Obama. I'm betting on Romney or the wild card Hilary.
really, so what do you think about NY, CA, PA? Are these states going to vote Republican this year? LOL... Take a look at republican vs. democrat turnouts, McCain will no doubt win WV and Mississippi and Alabama but that is hardly a concern.. Like I say, I havent chosen a candidate yet, but it seems your a bit "politically misguided".. Particularly your wild card, if that wasnt a joke :)
Reply

Izyan
06-04-2008, 05:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I do hope the intelligent triumph over the mentally challenged americans this one time!
It did last time. Bush had higher SAT scores and better grades than Kerry.
Reply

Izyan
06-04-2008, 05:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
really, so what do you think about NY, CA, PA? Are these states going to vote Republican this year? LOL... Take a look at republican vs. democrat turnouts, McCain will no doubt win WV and Mississippi and Alabama but that is hardly a concern.. Like I say, I havent chosen a candidate yet, but it seems your a bit "politically misguided".. Particularly your wild card, if that wasnt a joke :)
That's 3 states out of 50. There were no chance of of a Republican winning those states even if Jesus came back and joined the Republican ticket. Why wouldn't Clinton be a wild card? McCain almost joined the ticket with Kerry. How is this different?
Reply

MTAFFI
06-04-2008, 05:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
That's 3 states out of 50. There were no chance of of a Republican winning those states even if Jesus came back and joined the Republican ticket. Why wouldn't Clinton be a wild card? McCain almost joined the ticket with Kerry. How is this different?
that is right... those are also three states, the biggest states, that Billary won, those are the states that kept her in the race, see where I am going with this or do we need to go deeper?

Clinton wont go on the card for many very simple reasons, the main being that everything she has said up to this point does not agree with McCain. Not to mention, when have you ever seen a republican and democrat as president and vice president?
Reply

Izyan
06-04-2008, 06:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
that is right... those are also three states, the biggest states, that Billary won, those are the states that kept her in the race, see where I am going with this or do we need to go deeper?

Clinton wont go on the card for many very simple reasons, the main being that everything she has said up to this point does not agree with McCain. Not to mention, when have you ever seen a republican and democrat as president and vice president?
George W Bush lost those states too and how did that work out for him? Yes but they weren't democrats and Republicans at the time. John Addams was President (Republican) while Thomas Jefferson was Vice President (Federalist).
Reply

Izyan
06-04-2008, 06:12 PM
I'm tired of my posts being deleted as off topic with no explanation of how they were off topic. How was my pointing out the differences between Obama and Clinton off topic in a thread about Obama beating Clinton?
Reply

MTAFFI
06-04-2008, 08:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
George W Bush lost those states too and how did that work out for him? Yes but they weren't democrats and Republicans at the time. John Addams was President (Republican) while Thomas Jefferson was Vice President (Federalist).
He lost those, but then won the states Obama has flourished in, the smaller states.. Dont get me wrong I am not counting McCain out by any means, he is a strong candidate in his own right, it was you that mentioned the landslide victory with Hillary's supporters.. As I said previously take a look at the polls, they werent far off in the primaries or the caucuses and I dont suspect them to be off in the general election either, this will be a very tight, very important race that I believe will bring more voters and more attention to american politics than any I can really remember in recent history.

As for Addams and Jefferson, I see what you are getting at with the two parties on one ticket, but please note that politics have changed significantly since that time, notably the Federalist dont exist... also see my original question

hen have you ever seen a republican and democrat as president and vice president?

Answer is you havent and probably wont ever...

take a look at these two maps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...ollege2004.svg

http://politics.nytimes.com/election...map/index.html

look at all similar to you?
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Keltoi
06-04-2008, 09:29 PM
I think it is obvious the VP for Obama will be white...and probably male, as to not shove that in Hillary and her supporters' face. Probably more conservative and more than likely southern. Other than that it could be any number of names.
Reply

arabianprincess
06-05-2008, 02:11 AM
im sooooooo with obamaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... i was soooo happy even though i didnt get to vote... but inshallah i willlllll... anywayz...... i saw today on cnn or watever cant recall it but they were sayin... that she said .. if he dont pick her as vice president that .. he will lose her supporter n thats sound patheric .. ( i dont know if its true or its like media BS) anywayz .. peace
Reply

BlackMamba
06-05-2008, 03:11 AM
McCain=Bush
So McCain better not win and Obama is awesome, hes a real good speaker and he has a tite name. Barack Husain Obama. His last name is almost the same as my first name.
Reply

Pen Marks
06-05-2008, 03:17 AM
inshallah he wins :) i dont anymore republicans ruling america :(
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 04:32 AM
Why you muslims like this man!?

You know obama just won, and ALREADY he tells the jews he will help them wit whatever they want! just becuase they hated him, now he wants them to love him!
GO TO HELL OBAMA!!!

What the hell , why you guys support a jew lover, palestinian hater yo!!
Reply

Pygoscelis
06-05-2008, 04:47 AM
I am suprised that so many muslims here would support Obama. Do you guys not realize he's a liberal? He's more likely than McCain to support things I would have thought you'd consider evil, like homosexuals marrying, pro-choice, etc. I myself am liberal so I support him over McCain but I didn't expect muslims would. After all, if Obama wins the presidency it will be an Obamanation :p
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 04:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I am suprised that so many muslims here would support Obama. Do you guys not realize he's a liberal? He's more likely than McCain to support things I would have thought you'd consider evil, like homosexuals marrying, pro-choice, etc. I myself am liberal so I support him over McCain but I didn't expect muslims would. After all, if Obama wins the presidency it will be an Obamanation :p

LOL @ obamanation

and omg this is sad having a wiser non muslim!

Bravo bravo...a wise man here! :statisfie
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 04:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ali.
Obama holds great ideas for the US and his speeches are really good, I'm glad he got the nomination.

By the way, does anybody have any information about what he plans on doing to the troops in Iraq & Afghanistan? Today I heard he was planning to pull them out but I was really confused because I thought he planned otherwise :confused:?

What he plans?
He plans on taking them out of iraq. Why? Because he said they taking there eyes off al-qaeda and pakistan and afghanistan and all dem....

oooh so save iraq but destroy other countries? Hmm..sounds good doesnt it? well according to your guys's comments here, it does!

omgg this is so ...so...pissy-offy! :raging::raging::raging:
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snakelegs
06-05-2008, 05:05 AM
truemuslim is right:

"The victorious Democratic presidential candidate said Jerusalem must remain the undivided capital of Israel, and said any Israel-Palestinian peace deal must preserve Israel's integrity as a Jewish state."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080604...temideastobama
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 05:22 AM
He says it everywhere that he will help the jews and give them "what they deserve" (pshh yeh wut they deserve for killing children :rolleyes:)
He tries to trick you muslim by sayin he has "symphony" (in his language that means HATE) for the palestenians
Reply

crayon
06-05-2008, 10:40 AM
To be honest, I can't decide whom I dislike more, Obama or McCain. I hate Hilary more than both of them, though.
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 12:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
To be honest, I can't decide whom I dislike more, Obama or McCain. I hate Hilary more than both of them, though.

What did she do?:?
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 12:34 PM
Look at her quotes here...click so they can be the full quotes http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm

thats for hillary clinton

now look at this frkn wimp's quotes
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm

notice how ^ he HOPES to remove all troops by 2013 because he says they "take there eye" off other "global threats" pshhh...that translation is "WONT remove all troops by 2013, THATS HIS LAST YEAR IN DESTROYING THE WORLD, and he also wants to have war wit about any random other country" yeh sad innit

and clinton says she WILL get all troops out NO MATTER WHAT, by the NEXT YEAR!
no need for translation


its clear obama's a ___somfin bad here__
and clinton is also a ___somefin bad here__ BUT she plans on doin more for this gay twisted country!
Reply

Izyan
06-05-2008, 12:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
majority of muslims voted bush, then started whining bout how big of a btsh he was, now they vote this piece of sh** and will complain of how big of a btsh he is!

Why yo guys lyk dat man!?
Wake up and see the reality yo!
Obama sucks! Loves Jews. Will do ANYTHING to help them and make them love him...pshhh so retarded! and is just plain stupid

his name is cool ... barack hussain obama.. btu still...name dont matta now does it?

some people even say "barack bin laden" lol they mess up.. but does that change anything? NOOOO


oh well i hope america burns!! :raging: ....incase u wonderin...yes i am pissed off at the moment for several reasons...so piss off!!
You have a problem with Jews? I thought it was just zionists? Nice way of showing your true colors.
Reply

MTAFFI
06-05-2008, 12:55 PM
Woaaahhhhhh TrueMuslim...

Somethings under your skin huh? Keep in mind that foreign policy is one of many issues for Americans. Dont get me wrong, Israel, Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan are all important issues, but to many americans the issues like health care, taxes, abortion, gay marriage, the economy in general, the slumped real estate market, diplomatic process, jobs, NAFTA, etc. are also very big issues that play into who we need as a president.

Keep in mind that when quoting Billary on anything, that she will say whatever is necessary at the time. She is a proven and notorious liar, just like her husband. She goes around to the working class telling them how she will fix all their problems and yet her and her husband where in office when the NAFTA was signed off on which caused thousands upon thousands of Americans to lose their job, not to mention boosted China to its current status, which is really good for nobody. Besides, if she cant satisfy her husband how is she supposed to satisfy america? :hiding:

Anyways, on the topic of Palestine, I dont think any american president will solve the problem between them and Israel, but what I do know is this, Israel is a strategic ally for American politicians and military leaders in the Middle East, and no matter who becomes president they will support them, it is just a fact the world will have to live with, no matter if average joe shmoe gives a big fat crap about Israel or not.
Reply

Izyan
06-05-2008, 12:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
To be honest, I can't decide whom I dislike more, Obama or McCain. I hate Hilary more than both of them, though.
Since you hate them all who would you rather see run the country?
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 01:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
You have a problem with Jews? I thought it was just zionists? Nice way of showing your true colors.
NO
i Have a problem wit our "new" US president in helping the jews and giving them the whole state tthey deserve....

translation... NO ONE LIKE IT IF AMERICA KICKS OUT THE PALESTENIANS JUST FOR THE JEWS WHEN THEY CAN BACK THERE @$$'s OFF AND BURN IN HELL!! :raging: oops :X

format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Woaaahhhhhh TrueMuslim...

Somethings under your skin huh? Keep in mind that foreign policy is one of many issues for Americans. Dont get me wrong, Israel, Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan are all important issues, but to many americans the issues like health care, taxes, abortion, gay marriage, the economy in general, the slumped real estate market, diplomatic process, jobs, NAFTA, etc. are also very big issues that play into who we need as a president.

Keep in mind that when quoting Billary on anything, that she will say whatever is necessary at the time. She is a proven and notorious liar, just like her husband. She goes around to the working class telling them how she will fix all their problems and yet her and her husband where in office when the NAFTA was signed off on which caused thousands upon thousands of Americans to lose their job, not to mention boosted China to its current status, which is really good for nobody. Besides, if she cant satisfy her husband how is she supposed to satisfy america? :hiding:

Anyways, on the topic of Palestine, I dont think any american president will solve the problem between them and Israel, but what I do know is this, Israel is a strategic ally for American politicians and military leaders in the Middle East, and no matter who becomes president they will support them, it is just a fact the world will have to live with, no matter if average joe shmoe gives a big fat crap about Israel or not.

Alright well Osama will lie too then! If his QUOTES alone are bad then whut makes u think he will do ANYTHING other than make the ENTIRE world a hell?? All it is is another 4 years of hell...mayb u guys gna be stupid again and make it 8 Years of hell! People are voting for him the same way they did bush, coz they ignorant and want the worst for muslims! MUSLIMS are falling for it... and its so freakin pissin me off yo!!

If America decides to put its nosy selfish gay self into the Isrreal and palestine thing they will only help the JEWS! What makes u think they gonna help BOTH???




p.s.:raging::raging::raging::raging::raging::ragin g::raging::X:D
Reply

MTAFFI
06-05-2008, 01:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
NO
i Have a problem wit our "new" US president in helping the jews and giving them the whole state tthey deserve....

translation... NO ONE LIKE IT IF AMERICA KICKS OUT THE PALESTENIANS JUST FOR THE JEWS WHEN THEY CAN BACK THERE @$$'s OFF AND BURN IN HELL!! :raging: oops :X




Alright well Osama will lie too then! If his QUOTES alone are bad then whut makes u think he will do ANYTHING other than make the ENTIRE world a hell?? All it is is another 4 years of hell...mayb u guys gna be stupid again and make it 8 Years of hell! People are voting for him the same way they did bush, coz they ignorant and want the worst for muslims! MUSLIMS are falling for it... and its so freakin pissin me off yo!!

If America decides to put its nosy selfish gay self into the Isrreal and palestine thing they will only help the JEWS! What makes u think they gonna help BOTH???




p.s.:raging::raging::raging::raging::raging::ragin g::raging::X:D
lol.. you are crazy :)

first off, I don't see where Obama has lied yet;

second, I never said America would help both, it is known who American politicians and military leaders support.. Do you think Billary would have been the president to not side with Israel? :laugh: In your words "pshhhh" the Israeli/Palestinian conflict will have to be handled by those two parties and;

third, if Obama becomes president I think you will see a change in foreign policy whereas McCain will continue the exact same and most likely attack Iran as well, at first chance.. He is the one, if you remember, that made the joke about "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran".. That is an exact quote. Obama favors direct dialogue with Iran and other nations like Syria that the US has not spoke with in a long time, which is different and possibly constructive.

Anyways, please dont call americans stupid.. I am american, i dont think i am stupid, we are just like any other country in the world.. we have corrupt politicians.. I dont know who I will vote for to be honest with you, really I am more concerned about domestic issues, and whoever impresses me most with those is probably who i will vote for

word up homie :D
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 01:26 PM
am not crazy. crazy is whoever is dumb enough to vote for this btsh obama

He hasnt lied yet... but neither has clinton. You said she is likely to lie about wut she says like her husband did. ok , well obama has bad quotes already, imagine how much he would lie wit his things.

Obama sucks. He will only kill palestine. also did u kno his wife is a racist...oooh perrfect president for mostly WHITE country eh?
Where did i call americans stupid? u mean the calling them gay? i meant the country not the peope...by that i mean some people.
You guys had a good choice before, but now she's out, now u have a choice between this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaP9eiWuX3s

or that dumb retard liar who i can tell u now, will turn america, and the whole world to a hell! cough bigger than it already is from bush coughcough
Reply

Izyan
06-05-2008, 02:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
am not crazy. crazy is whoever is dumb enough to vote for this btsh obama

He hasnt lied yet... but neither has clinton. You said she is likely to lie about wut she says like her husband did. ok , well obama has bad quotes already, imagine how much he would lie wit his things.

Obama sucks. He will only kill palestine. also did u kno his wife is a racist...oooh perrfect president for mostly WHITE country eh?
Where did i call americans stupid? u mean the calling them gay? i meant the country not the peope...by that i mean some people.
You guys had a good choice before, but now she's out, now u have a choice between this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaP9eiWuX3s

or that dumb retard liar who i can tell u now, will turn america, and the whole world to a hell! cough bigger than it already is from bush coughcough
Most white? Have you ever seen the The Danes and the Dutch?
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 02:27 PM
^ omg why you people get the LITTLEST details?!

Juss so you know Obama is doing enough muslim bashing ALREADY by throwing his support behind israel! How does that sound good at all?!
Reply

MTAFFI
06-05-2008, 02:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
am not crazy. crazy is whoever is dumb enough to vote for this btsh obama
To each his/her own opinion

format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
He hasnt lied yet... but neither has clinton. You said she is likely to lie about wut she says like her husband did. ok , well obama has bad quotes already, imagine how much he would lie wit his things.
UMMM.. Bosnian sniper fire?? Type CLinton and liar in the same string on yahoo or google and see the results for yourself. What has Obama lied about? What constitutes a "bad quote"?

format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Obama sucks. He will only kill palestine. also did u kno his wife is a racist...oooh perrfect president for mostly WHITE country eh?
I dont think he will kill Palestine, perhaps by engaging in talks with nations like Iran and Syria he can make strides in Israel and Palestine as well..

Where did you hear his wife is racist? I would like a link for that, if it is the case, with that and the reverend wright saga it may turn me off to the guy completely.. Well that and the fact he has very little experience

format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Where did i call americans stupid? u mean the calling them gay? i meant the country not the peope...by that i mean some people.
You guys had a good choice before, but now she's out, now u have a choice between this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaP9eiWuX3s
OK.. You seem to revolve around Israel/Palestine, so what makes you think Clinton was taking any better stance? If you think she wouldnt cater to the Jewish Israeli lobby then I am afraid you are sadly mistaken.

Also, I suppose you didnt directly call americans stupid, BUT you did say "maybe u guys" implying that I am in fact one of those stupid people, but in short you have said so far that:
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
America decides to put its nosy selfish gay self
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
mayb u guys gna be stupid again
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
oh well i hope america burns
All of that is really rather offensive, where are you from? Maybe I can criticize your nation and it political and social affairs?:D
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
or that dumb retard liar who i can tell u now, will turn america, and the whole world to a hell! cough bigger than it already is from bush coughcough
no doubt Bush is a blundering buffoon, let us see what the potential new leaders have to offer though before we through them under the bus with the previous administration, one or the other is going to run this country, might as well vote for the best possibility, right? No matter how bad the best option may be
Reply

Fishman
06-05-2008, 02:50 PM
:sl:
American politics must be really difficult when it comes to elections. The only two parties that actually stand a chance are almost the same, and there are bigger fights between contenders from the same party (like Obama and Clinton) than between different actual sides.

The politics must be polarised more. The Republicans must become right-wing rich people who carry cheque books, briefcases and Bibles with them all the time, the Democrats must become a centrist party that can't decide which side of the fence to be on, and you must add in a Socialist party with red flags, gold stars and that cool cyrillic writing that they put on communist propaganda.
:w:
Reply

MTAFFI
06-05-2008, 02:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
Most white? Have you ever seen the The Danes and the Dutch?
whites make up almost or more than 50% of the US populace... I wouldnt want a racist black wife in the "white" house, the reverend wright saga is bad enough
Reply

MTAFFI
06-05-2008, 02:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
American politics must be really difficult when it comes to elections. The only two parties that actually stand a chance are almost the same, and there are bigger fights between contenders from the same party (like Obama and Clinton) than between different actual sides.

The politics must be polarised more. The Republicans must become right-wing rich people who carry cheque books, briefcases and Bibles with them all the time, the Democrats must become a centrist party that can't decide which side of the fence to be on, and you must add in a Socialist party with red flags, gold stars and that cool cyrillic writing that they put on communist propaganda.
:w:
lol... yes we must have a socialist party lol
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 03:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
To each his/her own opinion


UMMM.. Bosnian sniper fire?? Type CLinton and liar in the same string on yahoo or google and see the results for yourself. What has Obama lied about? What constitutes a "bad quote"?


I dont think he will kill Palestine, perhaps by engaging in talks with nations like Iran and Syria he can make strides in Israel and Palestine as well..

Where did you hear his wife is racist? I would like a link for that, if it is the case, with that and the reverend wright saga it may turn me off to the guy completely.. Well that and the fact he has very little experience


OK.. You seem to revolve around Israel/Palestine, so what makes you think Clinton was taking any better stance? If you think she wouldnt cater to the Jewish Israeli lobby then I am afraid you are sadly mistaken.

Also, I suppose you didnt directly call americans stupid, BUT you did say "maybe u guys" implying that I am in fact one of those stupid people, but in short you have said so far that:






All of that is really rather offensive, where are you from? Maybe I can criticize your nation and it political and social affairs?:D

no doubt Bush is a blundering buffoon, let us see what the potential new leaders have to offer though before we through them under the bus with the previous administration, one or the other is going to run this country, might as well vote for the best possibility, right? No matter how bad the best option may be

Oh they started learning Barack himself might be racist too! ;D this is hilarius. I hope judgement day comes before November '08 :X
neways i saw it on CNN and a bunch of OTHER channels EVERYWHERE on our tv. NO i didnt record it
but her is one link i found...couldnt read it right coz ima rush. so if anything is wrong in there. sorry. http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=1182

Ok i typed in Clinton Liar, She might be. ok.
But then i also typed in Obama liar. I think u should cheg it out too! :D

Ok well im from the U.S, now feel free to critisize WHATEVER you liike :statisfie

WaSalaam
Reply

MTAFFI
06-05-2008, 03:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Oh they started learning Barack himself might be racist too! ;D this is hilarius. I hope judgement day comes before November '08 :X
neways i saw it on CNN and a bunch of OTHER channels EVERYWHERE on our tv. NO i didnt record it
but her is one link i found...couldnt read it right coz ima rush. so if anything is wrong in there. sorry. http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=1182

Ok i typed in Clinton Liar, She might be. ok.
But then i also typed in Obama liar. I think u should cheg it out too! :D

Ok well im from the U.S, now feel free to critisize WHATEVER you liike :statisfie

WaSalaam
that is very interesting and information like that could turn out to be devastating to Obama's campaign

Glad you now know Clinton is a liar
I looked at it, he is more a liar by omission rather than a flat out liar (no better)

So you are from the US? Can you pick somewhere else just for entertainment purposes? :)
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 03:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
that is very interesting and information like that could turn out to be devastating to Obama's campaign

Glad you now know Clinton is a liar
I looked at it, he is more a liar by omission rather than a flat out liar (no better)

So you are from the US? Can you pick somewhere else just for entertainment purposes? :)

Yep!
No one can expect a perfect/good american president can they? Doubt it. All would have to lie bout something, do something bad, or have at least one thing bad in there plans for the ...country...or more like WORLD.
I guess non could live knowing they leader of U.S ONLY instead of the WHOLE world :rollseyes

Right NOW im in the U.S...ohio to be exact.
Background is Yemen tho. so ima yemeni :statisfie
Pick on yemen for entertainment and i pick on wherever u are and at u ! so try me! :raging::D joking...(coughnotreallycoughcough
Reply

MTAFFI
06-05-2008, 04:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Yep!
No one can expect a perfect/good american president can they? Doubt it. All would have to lie bout something, do something bad, or have at least one thing bad in there plans for the ...country...or more like WORLD.
I guess non could live knowing they leader of U.S ONLY instead of the WHOLE world :rollseyes

Right NOW im in the U.S...ohio to be exact.
Background is Yemen tho. so ima yemeni :statisfie
Pick on yemen for entertainment and i pick on wherever u are and at u ! so try me! :raging::D joking...(coughnotreallycoughcough
Oh.. hi.. oh <-- that was super corny

anyways, yemeni huh? well despite having a 35% unemployment rate and even if you do work, the average GDP is a mere $2,400.00 and the fact it is a underdeveloped nation despite the fact that it is one of the old places of civilization in the world, at least their government and people are not corrupt... oh wait never mind, see this:

Human rights

The human rights situation in Yemen is poor. The government and its security forces, often considered to suffer from rampant corruption, have been responsible for torture, inhumane treatment and even extra judicial executions. There are arbitrary arrests of citizens, specially in the south, as well as arbitrary searches of homes. Prolonged pretrial detention is a serious problem, and judicial corruption, inefficiency, and executive interference undermine due process. Freedom of speech, the press and religion are all restricted. [16]

Human Rights Watch reported on discrimination and violence against women as well as on the abolition of the minimum marriage age of the age of fifteen for woman. The onset of puberty (interpreted by conservatives to be at the age of nine) was set as a requirement for marriage instead.[17] Reports of other forms of hostile prejudice directed towards disabled people, and ethnic and religious minorities were also reported. Censorship is actively practiced and in 2005 legislation was passed requiring journalists to reveal their sources under certain circumstances, and the government has raised the start-up costs for newspapers and websites significantly. In violation of the Yemeni constitution, the security forces often monitor telephone, postal, and Internet communications. Journalists who tend to be critical of the government are often harassed and threatened by the police.[5]

Since the start of the Sa'dah insurgency many people accused of supporting Al-Houthi, have been arrested and held without charge or trial. According to the US Department of State, International Religious Freedom Report 2007, "Some Zaydis reported harassment and discrimination by the Government because they were suspected of sympathizing with the al-Houthis. However, it appears the Government's actions against the group were probably politically, not religiously, motivated"

yikes...lol


now for the real entertainment, I am a bit of a human mutt..lol.. my hertitage is diverse, I am German/ Polish/ Italian, probably more Italian than anything since my father is full blooded and the first to marry outside his ethnic group.. Have fun, dont be too rough on me..lol
Reply

Izyan
06-05-2008, 04:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
American politics must be really difficult when it comes to elections. The only two parties that actually stand a chance are almost the same, and there are bigger fights between contenders from the same party (like Obama and Clinton) than between different actual sides.

The politics must be polarised more. The Republicans must become right-wing rich people who carry cheque books, briefcases and Bibles with them all the time, the Democrats must become a centrist party that can't decide which side of the fence to be on, and you must add in a Socialist party with red flags, gold stars and that cool cyrillic writing that they put on communist propaganda.
:w:
In our history when thing get so polarized a new party normally springs from the 2 party to make up a third. The third party normally do excpetionally well and kills of one of the 2 original parties from the Federalists to the Whigs to Democrats.
Reply

Keltoi
06-05-2008, 04:24 PM
For those focusing on Obama's speech at AIPAC, he was more interested in trying to reconnect the black community with the Jewish community in the U.S. Hillary gave a speech right after Obama and said many of the same things. You don't go to AIPAC and start talking about dividing Jerusalem and dismantling Israel as a Jewish state. Even if Obama did wish to end U.S. support for Israel, which he doesn't, there is no better way to get McCain into the White House than a black man giving a speech that sounds anti-semetic or anti-Israel.
Reply

MTAFFI
06-05-2008, 05:48 PM
McCain and Obama: a stark matchup

By Linda Feldmann Thu Jun 5, 4:00 AM ET

Washington - The contrasts could not be more stark: an African-American Democrat versus a white Republican. The latter old enough to be the father of the former. One with no military experience, the other with a long Navy career punctuated by a harrowing period of captivity in a Hanoi prison camp. One with a soaring rhetorical style that can light up a sports arena, the other more comfortable in the back-and-forth banter of a town-hall meeting.
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Then there are the policy differences between the two presumptive major-party nominees for president. John McCain (R) is one of the Senate's most outspoken supporters of the Iraq war, while Barack Obama (D) has opposed it from the start. Senator McCain wants big tax cuts and less government spending; Senator Obama wants tax breaks targeted at the middle class and greater government involvement in job creation. On healthcare, McCain emphasizes consumer choice and market forces, while Obama favors government action that puts the nation on track toward universal coverage.

As the 2008 general election campaign kicks off, one point is already certain: The outcome will be historic. America will elect either its first African-American president or its oldest first-term president. But just as striking as their differences is a key similarity. Neither was the first choice of their party establishment for the nomination, and both have promised "a different kind of politics" from the highly partisan, divisive wrangling that has come to mark Washington for the past 20 years.

Both men hold appeal among independent voters – about a third of the electorate – and whoever wins a majority of them wins in November. So while both candidates must hold onto the bulk of their party regulars, they will also play to the nonideological center in a way that the nominees didn't in the last two presidential races.

Still, for McCain, the anti-Republican headwind he faces cannot be underestimated.

In any analysis of the 2008 race, "you start with the already-well-described Democratic advantage this time around, beginning with unhappiness over the war and the economy," says Bruce Buchanan, a political scientist at the University of Texas, Austin.

President Bush's abysmal job approval ratings also don't do McCain any favors. Even if Bush were doing reasonably well, history would still point toward a Democrat in 2008. Rarely is a two-term president succeeded by the nominee of his own party.

Generic polls show Americans preferring, with no names attached, a Democratic president to a Republican by a double-digit margin.

But McCain's image of independence and working across the aisle gives him a shot in November. So far, he is holding his own in polls versus Obama.

One of the great unknowns is the race factor. With no historical precedents for a nonwhite nominee, it is impossible to predict how or where Obama's race will affect his chances.

While McCain faced some grumbling among key GOP constituencies when he locked up the party nomination – particularly among movement conservatives and evangelical voters – Obama, too, must unify his party after a divisive primary season. He will need the support of the working class, older, and Hispanic voters that flocked to Hillary Rodham Clinton, and thus how she ends her candidacy and whether she works hard for Obama's election loom large over Obama's chances.

Party strategists warn against making too much of the intraparty squabbling.

"I think both candidates will get 80 percent of their party's voters at the end of the day," says Bill Carrick, a Democratic strategist based in Los Angeles.

"After eight years of George Bush, I just don't think Democrats will be voting for Republicans," says Mr. Carrick. "And when things calm down, they'll recognize that it's in the Democrats' best interest to elect Senator Obama. And Republicans will have the same feeling about McCain."

This leaves the moderates and the independents as the battleground. McCain is already trying mightily to distance himself from Bush, appearing in public with him as little as possible and pointedly criticizing his administration for its blunders, such as the handling of hurricane Katrina and what McCain saw was mishandling of the early years of the Iraq war.

McCain is also seizing opportunities to highlight his policy differences with Bush, such as his support for limits on greenhouse-gas emissions that the Bush administration resisted.

But every time the debate comes back to Iraq, McCain risks looking in lock step with Bush. McCain was a big proponent of last year's "surge" in US troop presence in Iraq, and so his complaints of the handling of the war have diminished.

Going forward, the mantra that Obama introduced first – change – will now be the theme of both campaigns. From the McCain camp, the question will be whose change do voters want, the change that a "maverick," experienced leader can bring, or the change that a young man who just four years ago was a state senator in Illinois can bring.

From the Obama camp, the emphasis will be on judgment over years of Washington experience.

During the primaries, Senator Clinton failed to gain serious traction over her highly debated advertisement asking voters whom they would want answering the phone at 3 a.m. In fact, analysts say, it may have only served to point to McCain as the most experienced candidate on national-security matters.

But even there, as polls show Americans more concerned about the economy than about Iraq or terrorism, McCain starts his general election run with a big anchor around his legs.

"He's in a tough situation, McCain, given that the major issues are going to be economic and that these issues do favor a Democratic candidate," says Stephen Wayne, a political scientist at Georgetown University.

"McCain can campaign if he wants on national-security grounds, but unless there's a change in the international environment and a perceived threat to the US, I don't know where that's going to get him."

McCain's admitted weakness on economic matters could be helped by selecting a running mate with a strong reputation on economics and finance, such as former Rep. Rob Portman (R) of Ohio, also Mr. Bush's former budget director, or Mitt Romney, ex-governor Massachusetts and a wealthy businessman.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080605/ts_csm/amatchup
Reply

crayon
06-05-2008, 05:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
Since you hate them all who would you rather see run the country?
I've absolutely no idea... :p
Reply

Izyan
06-05-2008, 06:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
I've absolutely no idea... :p
So you are willing to critisize but give no useful alternatives.
Reply

crayon
06-05-2008, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
So you are willing to critisize but give no useful alternatives.
When it comes to politics, yes, actually. I'm not interested in researching all those involved in american politics and deciding which one I think would be a fit president. From Obama, McCain, or Hilary, the ones I see on TV everyday, I don't support anyone. I think they all suck equally.
Reply

MTAFFI
06-05-2008, 06:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
When it comes to politics, yes, actually. I'm not interested in researching all those involved in american politics and deciding which one I think would be a fit president. From Obama, McCain, or Hilary, the ones I see on TV everyday, I don't support anyone. I think they all suck equally.
if only the presidential hopefuls had that sort of honesty :D
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crayon
06-05-2008, 06:37 PM
Honest politicians?? HAH!
Reply

snakelegs
06-05-2008, 06:50 PM
can anyone give me one significant difference between obama and clinton?
(other than that he voteed against invading iraq and she voted for)
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 07:01 PM
^ well clinton isnt planning on envading pakistan just to fight over OBL... :D
Reply

snakelegs
06-05-2008, 07:13 PM
true - that's a good one.
but do you think that clinton would hesitate to invade pakistan?
on the other hand, obama would talk to the iranians and clinton would not.
Reply

Gator
06-05-2008, 07:19 PM
Hello. Just for general clarity, Obama did not say he would "invade" Pakistan.

He would use limited military strikes against clear alqueda targets based on actionable intelligence if the Pakistani govt didn't act (just like the missle strikes over the passed few months).

So the invasion talk is unfounded.

Thanks.
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 07:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
Hello. Just for general clarity, Obama did not say he would "invade" Pakistan.

He would use limited military strikes against clear alqueda targets based on actionable intelligence if the Pakistani govt didn't act (just like the missle strikes over the passed few months).

So the invasion talk is unfounded.

Thanks.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3434573&page=1

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2182955.ece
Reply

Gator
06-05-2008, 07:30 PM
The Times headline is inflammatory and incorrect. If you read the article its clear he means limited strikes on alqueda bases, not prolonged intrusion and holding of land.
Reply

truemuslim
06-05-2008, 07:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
The Times headline is inflammatory and incorrect. If you read the article its clear he means limited strikes on alqueda bases, not prolonged intrusion and holding of land.
Man it says it EVERYWHERE, and HE said it himself, he is planning to invade pakistan and he already said that.
All he wants is peace! But PEACE wit him means WAR wit as many places as you can
Reply

snakelegs
06-05-2008, 07:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
Hello. Just for general clarity, Obama did not say he would "invade" Pakistan.

He would use limited military strikes against clear alqueda targets based on actionable intelligence if the Pakistani govt didn't act (just like the missle strikes over the passed few months).

So the invasion talk is unfounded.

Thanks.
point taken.
Reply

BlackMamba
06-06-2008, 12:37 AM
Obama was the best candidate out there. McCain wants to stay in Iraq for up to 100 years and Clinton is a woman. Obama is the best by far. And everyone in America supports Israel, y ru freaking out bout Obama. Hes not the Only one. If ur so passionate about that then y live in America-go somewhere else. As long as u live in AMerica, theres gonna be a lot of issues u dont agree with. In America ur never gonna see a Muslim president with a big beard that follows the sharia law. If ur waiting for that then ur retarded.
Reply

snakelegs
06-06-2008, 01:00 AM
well i would agree that obama is the best of the mainstream candidates.
(=democrat & republican)
and i agree - you're never gonna get a real alternative.
Reply

islamirama
06-06-2008, 03:04 AM
Barack Obama should not pick Hillary Clinton as his vice-presidential nominee, former president Jimmy Carter has told the Guardian. "I think it would be the worst mistake that could be made," Carter said, adding: "That would just accumulate the negative aspects of both candidates." The former president, who formally endorsed the Illinois senator late on Tuesday, cited opinion polls showing 50% of US voters with a negative view of Senator Clinton. In terms that might discomfort the Obama camp, he said: "If you take that 50% who just don't want to vote for Clinton and add it to whatever element there might be who don't think Obama is white enough or old enough or experienced enough or because he's got a middle name that sounds Arab, you could have the worst of both worlds.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...illaryclinton2

Comments:
Personally, I think the former NATO commander, Wesley Clark, or the daughter of former US president JFK, Caroline Kennedy – would be the best choices for Barack Obama – though I am not so sure if those two names would be acceptable to the Jewish Lobby (AIPAC & ADL).
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Chuck
06-06-2008, 10:40 AM
I'm sensing bad vibes from Obama. Perhaps because his tone doesn't seems right related to the war. He is the only one who said so far that he will nuke Iran and attack pakistan. So he wants to get out Iraq and start new costs of war in another places. Seems like he is gonna win, so I hope he doesn't do that. Hilary was more soft than Obama. Imo, Ron Paul was the best as far as reducing the cost of war is concerned and spending American tax payers money on American people, but he seems too radical and never stood a chance to become president.
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MTAFFI
06-06-2008, 04:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck
Imo, she wasn't bashing US; she was bashing Obama from the looks of it. She can clear this herself though.
pg 4 post 47

also I guess I should clarify, TrueMuslim was bashing US "politics" more than just the US anyways
Reply

truemuslim
06-06-2008, 09:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
He lost to McCain

Oh


mccain sucks how does Ron Paul lose to mccain!?

:raging:
where is this country goin to?!?
Reply

snakelegs
06-07-2008, 06:52 AM
truemuslim,
all the mainstream (final) candidates suck. they all take money from the same interests. it is just that some such louder than others.
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Amadeus85
06-07-2008, 07:50 PM
I heard that latinos are not likely to vote for a afro-american and that McCain is popular among them. It may change a lot I guess. Besides, in USA there are many white voters who wont vote for afro-american. The problem with McCain is that he has similar ideas as G.W Bush and Americans want a change in politics badly.
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Keltoi
06-07-2008, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
I heard that latinos are not likely to vote for a afro-american and that McCain is popular among them. It may change a lot I guess. Besides, in USA there are many white voters who wont vote for afro-american. The problem with McCain is that he has similar ideas as G.W Bush and Americans want a change in politics badly.
The question is what form of "change" do they supposedly want? If they are buying into Obama's flowery speeches about free medical care, jobs for everyone, and a miracle form of energy to replace oil for this generation they are in for a major disappointment.
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AvarAllahNoor
06-07-2008, 09:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
The question is what form of "change" do they supposedly want? If they are buying into Obama's flowery speeches about free medical care, jobs for everyone, and a miracle form of energy to replace oil for this generation they are in for a major disappointment.
Look, they can't be any worse than what that waste of space bush is! Republicans have screwed up your enconomy, or do you have blinkers on and can't see/say anything negative about them as you're a supporter??
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
06-07-2008, 09:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
I heard that latinos are not likely to vote for a afro-american and that McCain is popular among them. It may change a lot I guess. Besides, in USA there are many white voters who wont vote for afro-american. The problem with McCain is that he has similar ideas as G.W Bush and Americans want a change in politics badly.
He won't get in and if he does, it's a third term for bush. I hope the cretinous yanks don't vote again for republicans unless they are glutton (how apt) for punishment!
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Amadeus85
06-07-2008, 11:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Look, they can't be any worse than what that waste of space bush is! Republicans have screwed up your enconomy, or do you have blinkers on and can't see/say anything negative about them as you're a supporter??
Its just that democrats are ussually too socialist for americans, and I doubt if they had good plan for U.S economy.
Reply

Fishman
06-08-2008, 11:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
The question is what form of "change" do they supposedly want? If they are buying into Obama's flowery speeches about free medical care, jobs for everyone, and a miracle form of energy to replace oil for this generation they are in for a major disappointment.
:sl:
I'm sure its better to buy into that than Republican speeches about wars on terrorism, tax cuts and the non-existance of global warming...
:w:
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Chuck
06-08-2008, 12:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Look, they can't be any worse than what that waste of space bush is! Republicans have screwed up your enconomy, or do you have blinkers on and can't see/say anything negative about them as you're a supporter??
Imo, Obama will come out as a big disappoint too, so who they gonna vote after this? When both Rep and Dems are disappointments who people gonna vote next. They might vote again for a Rep again lol, this is really stupid cycle going on.
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Tania
06-08-2008, 03:19 PM
I really hope us to have a peaceful president which will not ruin other peoples life and families.
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truemuslim
06-08-2008, 03:20 PM
^ Yeh, Inshallah....
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Keltoi
06-08-2008, 04:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I'm sure its better to buy into that than Republican speeches about wars on terrorism, tax cuts and the non-existance of global warming...
:w:
Why is it better? Because you're a liberal of course. I tend to like tax cuts.
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Keltoi
06-08-2008, 04:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Look, they can't be any worse than what that waste of space bush is! Republicans have screwed up your enconomy, or do you have blinkers on and can't see/say anything negative about them as you're a supporter??
Republicans didn't do anything to the economy. Contrary to popular myth, the Iraq War has nothing to do with the state of the economy. It started with a downward spiral with real estate and the rising price of gasoline caused by increased world demand. It is also part of a business cycle. Believe it or not, the president has very little impact on the American economy...except for tax breaks.
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Fishman
06-08-2008, 05:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Why is it better? Because you're a liberal of course. I tend to like tax cuts.
:sl:
Change in society> tax cuts.

And fear-mongering about 'terror' and spreading fake science about how global warming does not exist are not particularly high on my list of things which I would want to hear from a presidential candidate.
:w:
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Muezzin
06-08-2008, 05:03 PM
Easy, folks. A lot of people aren't even from the USA on this thread, so it would be great if everybody just cooled it down a tad.

That said, the irony is deliciously hilarious.
Reply

Fishman
06-08-2008, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Easy, folks. A lot of people aren't even from the USA on this thread, so it would be great if everybody just cooled it down a tad.

That said, the irony is deliciously hilarious.
:sl:
But your mods deleted my rubbish joke! :D
:w:
Reply

truemuslim
06-08-2008, 05:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Easy, folks. A lot of people aren't even from the USA on this thread, so it would be great if everybody just cooled it down a tad.

That said, the irony is deliciously hilarious.
lol
yes but the whoever the president of the u.s is effects the whole world
u kno bush thought he was leader of the world! looool look at this ! hahahaaa :laugh:

Reply

Keltoi
06-09-2008, 12:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Change in society> tax cuts.

And fear-mongering about 'terror' and spreading fake science about how global warming does not exist are not particularly high on my list of things which I would want to hear from a presidential candidate.
:w:
I don't think the point is whether global warming exists, the point is whether human beings are the culprits of said warming.
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Izyan
06-09-2008, 12:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Look, they can't be any worse than what that waste of space bush is! Republicans have screwed up your enconomy, or do you have blinkers on and can't see/say anything negative about them as you're a supporter??
Republicans didn't screw up the economy. The president has very strong restraints on him when it comes to the economy. There are only 3 things he can do. He can affect fiscal policy by increasing or decreasing government, He can raise or lower taxes, or he can order a buy or sell on government bonds. That's all he can do and he can't even do those things without the approval of congress. The US economy is largely determined by consumer confidence. It's like one giant roller coaster that's always going up or down. It's largely cyclical and can be pretty well predicted. Don't worry about the economy because we aren't as bad off as it seems. Over in Europe and the ME they have twice the unemployment rate that we do.
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Izyan
06-09-2008, 12:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *SAFA*
lol
yes but the whoever the president of the u.s is effects the whole world
u kno bush thought he was leader of the world! looool look at this ! hahahaaa :laugh:

I hate to break this to you but he was democratically elected as president. We have something here called the electoral college that most people even in the US don't understand. As for Florida, 3 different newspapers were able to get the ballots from Florida under the Freedom of Information Act and all 3 say Bush would have won any recount. One of the newspapers was the NY Times, an ardent critic of this administration.
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Chuck
06-09-2008, 08:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
Republicans didn't screw up the economy. The president has very strong restraints on him when it comes to the economy. There are only 3 things he can do. He can affect fiscal policy by increasing or decreasing government, He can raise or lower taxes, or he can order a buy or sell on government bonds. That's all he can do and he can't even do those things without the approval of congress. The US economy is largely determined by consumer confidence. It's like one giant roller coaster that's always going up or down. It's largely cyclical and can be pretty well predicted. Don't worry about the economy because we aren't as bad off as it seems. Over in Europe and the ME they have twice the unemployment rate that we do.
President can do another thing -- cut trillion dollars of expenditure on Iraq and other countries. If that money was being spent inside US rather than out-side that would have boasted the consumer confidence and economy.
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barrio79
06-09-2008, 10:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
Whos is better Mccain Or Obama ????
Time will tell
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Izyan
06-10-2008, 11:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck
President can do another thing -- cut trillion dollars of expenditure on Iraq and other countries. If that money was being spent inside US rather than out-side that would have boasted the consumer confidence and economy.
Not exactlly. When you factor in inlation more was spent on WWII and helped stimulate the US economy out of the Depression. Also war and the military help promote innovation and technologies. Many things that we have today were first designed for military use.
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MTAFFI
06-10-2008, 01:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
Not exactlly. When you factor in inlation more was spent on WWII and helped stimulate the US economy out of the Depression. Also war and the military help promote innovation and technologies. Many things that we have today were first designed for military use.
more was spent on wwII but US companies were hiring people to build, test, etc the equipment and therefore kept the economy somewhat stimulated, not to mention we were pumping out goods to other nations as well.. This war has stimulated nothing as far as our economy goes, and because of where the war is taking place it is more than likely why we are paying at the pump like we are, you can deny that if you like as it cannot be proven fact, however look at gas prices before and after 9/11... To say that the money that has been wasted on this war wouldnt be better used by pumping it into our economy or using it toward our national debt or combating trade deficit by making it easier and cheaper to produce things in our own country is as naive as it is ridiculous.
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Izyan
06-10-2008, 02:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
more was spent on wwII but US companies were hiring people to build, test, etc the equipment and therefore kept the economy somewhat stimulated, not to mention we were pumping out goods to other nations as well.. This war has stimulated nothing as far as our economy goes, and because of where the war is taking place it is more than likely why we are paying at the pump like we are, you can deny that if you like as it cannot be proven fact, however look at gas prices before and after 9/11... To say that the money that has been wasted on this war wouldnt be better used by pumping it into our economy or using it toward our national debt or combating trade deficit by making it easier and cheaper to produce things in our own country is as naive as it is ridiculous.
You give politicians too much credit. Was any of this being done prior to 9/11? No it wasn't. The Iraq war isn't affecting oil prices speculators, oil companies, and OPEC is. We recieve oil from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela. and SA in that order. Iraq oil production is at pre-wa levels.
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MTAFFI
06-10-2008, 03:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
You give politicians too much credit. Was any of this being done prior to 9/11? No it wasn't. The Iraq war isn't affecting oil prices speculators, oil companies, and OPEC is. We recieve oil from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela. and SA in that order. Iraq oil production is at pre-wa levels.
I never disputed that, my comment was in regard to the geographic location.. If you read the news recently, you will have heard of the Israelis comment with regard to attacking Iran, you will then notice that oil spiked $11 dollars per barrel.. I dont think we even get a single drop of oil from Iran, but yet the prices spiked.. Also, if possible please provide reference to Iraqi oil be at pre war levels, my understanding is that the infrastructure is too weak and that it is well below, while some production is still being made

As for giving politicians too much credit.. :) I dont give them much at all.. I fully realize that one man will not effectively destroy or rebuild our economy, however government spending is based on a budget and it tumbles right down the hill. If a large portion of the budget (iraq) is spent then it leaves little for other things, such as road repair, schools, government building, law enforcement, development in infrastructure in general. When these jobs are lost or people are laid off because this much needed work is stopped it plays a significant role in what we are witnessing today. The loss of jobs, less money for the general public to spend, unrest in the stock market, people saving rather than spending, the prices begin to rise because products are not being consumed at a fast enough rate. I am not saying that the government ever pumped as much money into our economy as it is into Iraq, I am saying that if in some unworldly event they did, you could kiss this recession and housing and credit crisis goodbye.

Also you mentioned nothing about our national debt or trade deficit, which both effect the value of our dollar. This is another very very significant aspect of the economic woes and should not be overlooked.
Reply

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