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truemuslim
06-09-2008, 12:12 AM
:sl:

Ok I'm a bit confused here.

Who REALLY is the 'first' muslim?

"And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12)

^ Meaning Muhammed (saw) would be the first muslim right?

BUT

Before him...

"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143)

^ Meaning Moses would be the first muslim right?

AND

"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132)

^ Ok, Meaning Abraham is the first muslim ...right?

So is this a contradaction or just translated wrong?
Or is it a lie?

Now I'm not tryin to attack islam or anything but it would ..u kno... be more...clear... if i knew the answer.
Jazakallah khair

WaSalaam :D

:Evil:
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AntiKarateKid
06-09-2008, 12:32 AM
i belive that when the Prophet ) pbuh) said he was the first Muslim following the final revelation that he was given. Int he other cases, Muslim is meant as one whop submits to Allah.


I think this is the answer though there are people more knowledgeable than me who could comment.
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truemuslim
06-09-2008, 12:34 AM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
i belive that when the Prophet ) pbuh) said he was the first Muslim following the final revelation that he was given. Int he other cases, Muslim is meant as one whop submits to Allah.


I think this is the answer though there are people more knowledgeable than me who could comment.

Oh ok well the Muhammed (saw) one makes sense, but wouldn't they say they are the first, second, muslims? Why would TWO prophets say they were the FIRST muslims?

Jazakallah khair for your answer btw :D
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tetsujin
06-09-2008, 01:21 AM
Originally Posted by *SAFA*
Oh ok well the Muhammed (saw) one makes sense, but wouldn't they say they are the first, second, muslims? Why would TWO prophets say they were the FIRST muslims?

Jazakallah khair for your answer btw :D
The answer you are looking for is Adam. It is believed that there always been and always will be one true religion and that has been revealed to everyone in due time. The fact that Muhammad received the final revelation does not make him the first nor does it make any of the other prophets the first. The first human Allah created would have received a divine instruction as well.

Your answer is Adam. Whether he called himself a "muslim" or not is irrelevant.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
06-09-2008, 01:39 AM
^^Not sure how that really answers the question....?
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Malaikah
06-09-2008, 01:42 AM
:sl:

I always thought it meant first Muslim of their time. Not the first Muslims EVER.

Allahu a'lam, that's just what I always thought it meant...
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Mikayeel
06-09-2008, 01:54 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

I always thought it meant first Muslim of their time. Not the first Muslims EVER.

Allahu a'lam, that's just what I always thought it meant...
:sl:

Yep that is what I always had in mind aswell, untill some atheist once pointed it out to me.... but that makes perfect sense! The first muslims of their time, inshAllah if wer wrong sum wiser bro or sis can brighten us up
:w:
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truemuslim
06-09-2008, 02:12 AM
Ok well WHY did the prophets Abraham and Moses say that they were the first muslims?
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north_malaysian
06-09-2008, 02:15 AM
Originally Posted by *SAFA*
Ok well WHY did the prophets Abraham and Moses say that they were the first muslims?
The first Muslim in their generation or people?
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truemuslim
06-09-2008, 02:17 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
The first Muslim in their generation or people?

Wait, do they mean in there generation or EVER? :?

ooo am so confuse now :exhausted

Oh well. im reading the translated quran right now. sooo beautiful. mashallah
answered tons of questions already
:D
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Mikayeel
06-09-2008, 02:21 AM
Originally Posted by *SAFA*
Wait, do they mean in there generation or EVER? :?

ooo am so confuse now :exhausted

Oh well. im reading the translated quran right now. sooo beautiful. mashallah
answered tons of questions already
:D
:sl: sis

Well its not EVER, because thats impossible, so it has to be of their generation
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truemuslim
06-09-2008, 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by raOnar
:sl: sis

Well its not EVER, because thats impossible, so it has to be of their generation
wa3alaikum assalam

So Moses claimed he was the first muslim in HIS generation , Abraham claimed he was the first muslim in HIS generation, and Muhammed claimed he was the first muslim because the quran was revealed to HIM and in his generation? Makes sense, but like when Abraham said he is the first muslim, wouldn't there have been other muslims from BEFORE him? like that learned from the prophet before him, and turned to Islam? Or did the Muslims from the prophet before him all ...disapear?

jazakallah khair
sorry for so many questions. :-[
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Mikayeel
06-09-2008, 02:33 AM
Originally Posted by *SAFA*
wa3alaikum assalam

So Moses claimed he was the first muslim in HIS generation , Abraham claimed he was the first muslim in HIS generation, and Muhammed claimed he was the first muslim because the quran was revealed to HIM and in his generation? Makes sense, but like when Abraham said he is the first muslim, wouldn't there have been other muslims from BEFORE him? like that learned from the prophet before him, and turned to Islam? Or did the Muslims from the prophet before him all ...disapear?

jazakallah khair
sorry for so many questions. :-[

:sl:

I really can't answer this in to much dept i hope a wiser bro or sis cums along.

Well if the quran says that abraham was the first muslim, then its saying that his generation were not practising islam... So he was the first muslim at that time..

Wa jazaaki
Questions are good:)
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tetsujin
06-09-2008, 03:45 AM
Originally Posted by raOnar
:sl: sis

Well its not EVER, because thats impossible, so it has to be of their generation

Why is that impossible? Do you not believe that at one point nothing existed until god created it?

So one day god created a human, his name was Adam.

Adam was the first prophet as well as the first human ever.

A muslim is someone who submits to the will of Allah. There's no inconsistency so far, right?

So since Adam fits every definition of what it means to be a muslim, then he was the first muslim. He probably did not practise islam as it was revealed to muhammad, but neither did Noah, Moses, David, Jesus, Abraham, or any of the other prophets.

I understand that some of you want a "Muslim" brother to verify it, that's fine, atleast be consistent with what you believe.


All the best wishes,


Faysal
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Mikayeel
06-09-2008, 03:54 AM
Originally Posted by tetsujin
Why is that impossible? Do you not believe that at one point nothing existed until god created it?

So one day god created a human, his name was Adam.

Adam was the first prophet as well as the first human ever.

A muslim is someone who submits to the will of Allah. There's no inconsistency so far, right?

So since Adam fits every definition of what it means to be a muslim, then he was the first muslim. He probably did not practise islam as it was revealed to muhammad, but neither did Noah, Moses, David, Jesus, Abraham, or any of the other prophets.

I understand that some of you want a "Muslim" brother to verify it, that's fine, atleast be consistent with what you believe.


All the best wishes,


Faysal

Hello, what ur saying is perfectly fine..

Its impossible that abraham was the first muslim ever because adam was a muslim before him... thats all am saying?
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Malaikah
06-09-2008, 03:56 AM
Originally Posted by *SAFA*
Makes sense, but like when Abraham said he is the first muslim, wouldn't there have been other muslims from BEFORE him? like that learned from the prophet before him, and turned to Islam? Or did the Muslims from the prophet before him all ...disapear?
When Abraham was alive he was the only Muslim at first, ALL other people on the whole earth were non-Muslim.

As for the Prophets before him, well it isn't hard to imagine what could have happened, just look at Prophet `Isa, how quickly did they all start to worship him as the son of God and fall in to kufr? I don't know what happened, but it could have been anything... perhaps the followers of the earlier prophets got less and less religious as generations passed, to the point they lost everything they had.

Also, from tafsir ibn katheer, it says about verse 7:143:

("and I am the first of the believers.''), among the Children of Israel, according to Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, and Ibn Jarir preferred this view.

Wallahu A`lam.
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tetsujin
06-09-2008, 03:57 AM
Originally Posted by raOnar
Hello, what ur saying is perfectly fine..

Its impossible that abraham was the first muslim ever because adam was a muslim before him... thats all am saying?


I'm sorry, I may have misunderstood. I didn't see Abraham in your post and or the post quoted.



All the best wishes,


Faysal
Reply

truemuslim
06-09-2008, 05:59 AM
Originally Posted by raOnar
:sl:

I really can't answer this in to much dept i hope a wiser bro or sis cums along.

Well if the quran says that abraham was the first muslim, then its saying that his generation were not practising islam... So he was the first muslim at that time..

Wa jazaaki
Questions are good:)
Its ok, Jazakallah khair
:D

Originally Posted by Malaikah
When Abraham was alive he was the only Muslim at first, ALL other people on the whole earth were non-Muslim.

As for the Prophets before him, well it isn't hard to imagine what could have happened, just look at Prophet `Isa, how quickly did they all start to worship him as the son of God and fall in to kufr? I don't know what happened, but it could have been anything... perhaps the followers of the earlier prophets got less and less religious as generations passed, to the point they lost everything they had.

Also, from tafsir ibn katheer, it says about verse 7:143:

("and I am the first of the believers.''), among the Children of Israel, according to Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, and Ibn Jarir preferred this view.

Wallahu A`lam.

Allahu A3lam , And Jazakallah khair sis for ur answer.
It seems pretty clear now :statisfie





tho i sorta did find some...other...things while reading the translated quran today :-[
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------
06-09-2008, 10:13 AM
:salamext:

None of us are scholars and can answer this question. This is not a fiqh discussion board. These sort of questions ought to be asked to scholars, not laymen.
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