Why Kul (Say) In the beginning???

[Güven]

:sl:


Maybe a stupid Question But why Do we Say For Example Surah- Ichlaas
In the beginning The Word 'Kul' Wich means 'say' Why dont we just say:

Hüvallahü ehad,
Allahüs samed ,
Lem yelid ve lem yuled ,
Ve lem yekün lehu küfüven ehad .

(Say) ......

He is Allah, the One;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.

The Surah Is meant for us To say But why do we put Kul (Say) In the beginning when we Pray thats what I dont understand :?

:w:

['Abd al-Baari]

Thread Approved

Thats an interesting question, i'll try and see if i can search for some answers, Insha'Allah.

It could be to do with when the Qura'an was revealed to the Prophet Salallahu Alayhi Wassalam, it was as a command to him, as in to 'say' it to the people...WaAllahu A'lam

I'll see if i can look for a definite answer :)

:w:

[Malaikah]

:sl:

Isn't it because Allah is commanding us to say it...

[Güven]

Yah but why do WE say ..'SAY' in the beginning Thats what I dont understand

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[Soulja Girl]

:sl:

I think...When the Quran was being revealed on our beloved Prophet, Allah commanded him to "say"/"kul" to the people...Idk...:?

:w:

[Malaikah]

Yah but why do WE say ..'SAY' in the beginning Thats what I dont understand

Because it is part of the Quran! We can't just take out words from the Quran when we read it...

[Güven]

^Yah Ofcourse I know we cant take part of the Quran out, astafurallah

But the thing is He told Us To SAY ... Hüvallahü ehad, Allahüs samed , Lem yelid ve lem yuled ,Ve lem yekün lehu küfüven ehad.
But why do we still Say ..." SAY "in the beginning
it sounds like we are Saying To tell OTHER people to say it but actualy we have To say it for ourselves ALLAHU ALIM

['Abd al-Baari]

:sl:

Try asking a Scholar, Insha'Allah. They should be able to help you more than us, as their knowledge exceeds the laymans. :)

:w:s

[Ali.]

It could be to do with when the Qura'an was revealed to the Prophet Salallahu Alayhi Wassalam, it was as a command to him, as in to 'say' it to the people...WaAllahu A'lam

Yes, I believe that is it. Good question, by the way.

[Güven]

:sl:

Try asking a Scholar, Insha'Allah. They should be able to help you more than us, as their knowledge exceeds the laymans. :)

:w:s

And Where Can I Find A Scolar :D

['Abd al-Baari]

Assalamu Alaykum,

Are there any Masajid near where you live akhee? Maybe you could ask one of the Imaams.

:w:

[Güven]

Yah We have Some Masjids here , I will Try To Ask Inshallah

Jazakallaah Khair For Comments btw :)

[Muhammad]

:sl:

One interesting point is that the "Qul" is actually a proof that the Qur'an is from Allaah (swt) and not made up by anyone else, because otherwise it wouldn't be there. I guess this is kind of looking at it from the opposite perspective.

[Güven]

^ Good Point , But for example when We do the salat And You recite Ichlaas and you say Kul But To who are we Sayin Kul, Isnt it suppose to be that WE have to recite It
and Not to Say ..Say ? Allahu ALim

[Mikayeel]

:sl:

Its because the quran was revealed to muhammad (pbuh), and allah commanded him to say the text he revealed to him.

So for example

(Say oh Muhammad)

He is Allah, the One;

So 'say' implies to muhammad(pbuh) to actuall say the relavtion to others.
Wa Allahu a3lam

[Güven]

^ Yeah He Told Him(Saw) To SAY : He is Allah, The One
So why is The SAY Included .......Allahu Alim

[teen-omar]

:sl:
i was going to say the similar thing as RaOnar
because the qur'an was revealed to Muhammad (pbuh), the angel Gabriel said to our beloved prophet "Qul Huwallahu Ahad", meaning that Gabriel said to him "say that allah is one!"
so what he means with "Say" is that he should tell everybody (sahaba's etc.) about it
for instance, "Say to them that allah is one" etc.
that is what i most probably think is right, wallahu a3lam
every right thing i said comes from allah, and evvery mistake i made comes from me
:w:

[Güven]

But Why Do WE still Say ...SAY in our salat or when we recite doesnt it sound strange when we Say .. SAY He is Allah, The One;
to who Are WE saying SAY?? , I understand That the Prophet (Pbuh) Said to companions and the others but why are WE saying it.. Allahu Alim

[Al-Zaara]

It's more dramatic. :D

Hmm..

Actually, I don't find it too strange to say "Say there is only one God". It's like you are repeating the words said to you, like you are reminding yourself of what was said to you.. But it is a good question..

Please, someone ask a scholar. :statisfie

[Amat Allah]

I think...When the Quran was being revealed on our beloved Prophet, Allah commanded him to "say"/"kul" to the people...Idk...

my dear sister Crazy lady is right.....and cause Allah knew that the Unbelievers will accuse our prophet Muhmmad salla Allah alyhi wa sallam by manufacturing the Qura`n and it is not from Allah but a lie from the prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) Astagfor Allah....

thats way there is Kul...

Wa Allaho A`alam

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

But Why Do WE still Say ...SAY in our salat or when we recite doesnt it sound strange when we Say .. SAY He is Allah, The One;
to who Are WE saying SAY?? , I understand That the Prophet (Pbuh) Said to companions and the others but why are WE saying it.. Allahu Alim

Akhee, we don't say 'We say', because the Qur'aan is not our speech, it is the Kalaam (words) of Allaah Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala.

Secondly, 'Qul' is the 'amr' (command) form of the the root word/verb 'Qawl'. There is no such word as 'we say' in amr. :? An amr is a command from yourself, to someone else or a grouple of people, whether they be male or female. If you mean, 'naqoolu' (we say - present tense), then this would change the meaning completely.

You just have to remember every ayah has a reason that it was sent down (sabab). It was revealed by Allaah Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala for a specific purpose, so we recite it as it was revealed.

Hope that makes things a little clearer inshaa'Allaah.

[Güven]

Akhee, we don't say 'We say', because the Qur'aan is not our speech, it is the Kalaam (words) of Allaah Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala.

Secondly, 'Qul' is the 'amr' (command) form of the the root word/verb 'Qawl'. There is no such word as 'we say' in amr. :? An amr is a command from yourself, to someone else or a grouple of people, whether they be male or female. If you mean, 'naqoolu' (we say - present tense), then this would change the meaning completely.

You just have to remember every ayah has a reason that it was sent down (sabab). It was revealed by Allaah Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala for a specific purpose, so we recite it as it was revealed.

Hope that makes things a little clearer inshaa'Allaah.

Oww Soorry I meant When we recite ,
But I know what your sayin Sis
But there is still one thing When Allah(S.W.T) revealed The surah He Said " Say (O Muhammed)" He is Allah , The One ..... So does That Include The word ""Say""when we recite ?? Arent we Suppose To Recite He is Allah, The one .....? Allahu ALim

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Oww Soorry I meant When we recite ,
But I know what your sayin Sis
But there is still one thing When Allah(S.W.T) revealed The surah He Said " Say (O Muhammed)" He is Allah , The One ..... So does That Include The word ""Say""when we recite ?? Arent we Suppose To Recite He is Allah, The one .....? Allahu ALim

Yeah, I know what you meant. When the ayah came down, the Prophet salAllaahu 'alayhi wa Sallam recited like this: 'Qul Huwa Allaahu Ahad...'. So we recite it like that, including "Qul/Say".

There are numerous other examples from the Qur'aan.

[Umar001]

Allah knows best, but in our Salah we are not doing what the verse says in one way, for example, we may read a verse which tells us to do x.y.z but us reading that verse we are not doing what the verse says, like if a verse says Fast, we dont start fasting in our salah at that moment.

The verse we read we read beacuse we have to read Qur'an! Now, what your saying is, Allah commanded us in the verse to SAY He is Allah Ahad, now we are reciting this command, we are not doing it. We insha'Allah do it normally, by saying that Allah is one, but in the prayer we are reciting the Command.

Like for example, there maybe a command of, hmmm, for example, when the months are over then fight the mushrikeen, when we recite the verse, we are not doing the command of the verse, rather we are reciting it because we are doing the command of reciting Qur'an in prayer. Is that making sense?

So when we read surah Ikhlas, we are not doing the action which Allah said QUL... and the sentence, that command is something, but we are reading that COMMAND?

And Allah knows best.

[Güven]

Allah knows best, but in our Salah we are not doing what the verse says in one way, for example, we may read a verse which tells us to do x.y.z but us reading that verse we are not doing what the verse says, like if a verse says Fast, we dont start fasting in our salah at that moment.

The verse we read we read beacuse we have to read Qur'an! Now, what your saying is, Allah commanded us in the verse to SAY He is Allah Ahad, now we are reciting this command, we are not doing it. We insha'Allah do it normally, by saying that Allah is one, but in the prayer we are reciting the Command.

Like for example, there maybe a command of, hmmm, for example, when the months are over then fight the mushrikeen, when we recite the verse, we are not doing the command of the verse, rather we are reciting it because we are doing the command of reciting Qur'an in prayer. Is that making sense?

So when we read surah Ikhlas, we are not doing the action which Allah said QUL... and the sentence, that command is something, but we are reading that COMMAND?

And Allah knows best.

That makes A lot of Sense Now Jazakallaah Khair Bro :)

[------]

:salamext:

InshaaAllaah we should not question the way the Qur'aan is written. We question unnecessary so much, instead of reflecting upon our state in this world and what our state will be on the Day of Judgement. SubhaanAllaah.

[Umar001]

That makes A lot of Sense Now Jazakallaah Khair Bro :)

Dont forget to ask an imam or someone knowledgeable. Wa Iyyaka


An interesting point: If I am not mistaken Shaykh Bin Baz wrote to a president/leader who waas thinking of removing all the Quls out of the Qur'an, and urged him not to.

[Güven]

Dont forget to ask an imam or someone knowledgeable. Wa Iyyaka

I will Inshallah :)

[Güven]

:salamext:

InshaaAllaah we should not question the way the Qur'aan is written. We question unnecessary so much, instead of reflecting upon our state in this world and what our state will be on the Day of Judgement. SubhaanAllaah.

Youre Right Sis But I wanted To get rid of This little misunderstanding But its Gone Now I Understand It Thanks To Bro Habeshi and the others .

[Umar001]

I will Inshallah :)

Just so you know brother there are statements/reports that in some places of the Qur'an when Allah says for example to Praise Him, that people used to praise him. I can't remember the verses of the top of my head, but a verse of praise then the person used to praise Allah and a verse ordering to seek refuge and they would do so.

Someone more knowledgeable than me should explain that to you. It is pretty cool.

Here is what I found from Tafsir Ibn Kathir:

Abu Dawud recorded from Musa bin Abi `A'ishah that he said, "A man used to pray on top of his house and whenever he recited,


﴿أَلَيْسَ ذَلِكَ بِقَـدِرٍ عَلَى أَن يُحْيِىَ الْمَوْتَى ﴾


(Is it not so then, that He would be able to give life to the dead) he would say, `Glory to You, of course.' So the people asked him about that and he said, `I heard it from the Messenger of Allah .''' Abu Dawud was alone in transmitting this Hadith and he did not mention who this Companion was, but there is no harm in that. This is the end of the Tafsir of Surat Al-Qiyamah, all praise and thanks are due to Allah.

Also from Tafsir of Suratul 'Ala:

Imam Ahmad recorded from Ibn `Abbas that whenever the Messenger of Allah would recite


﴿سَبِّحِ اسْمَ رَبِّكَ الاّعْلَى ﴾


(Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High.) he would say,


«سُبْحَانَ رَبِّيَ الْأَعْلَى»


(Glory to my Lord, the Most High.) Ibn Jarir recorded from Ibn Ishaq Al-Hamdani that whenever Ibn `Abbas would recite


سَبِّحِ اسْمَ رَبِّكَ الاّعْلَى ﴾


(Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High.) he would say, "Glory to my Lord, the Most High,'' and whenever he would recite


﴿لاَ أُقْسِمُ بِيَوْمِ الْقِيَـمَةِ ﴾


(I swear by the Day of Resurrection.) (75:1) and then reach the end of it


﴿أَلَيْسَ ذَلِكَ بِقَـدِرٍ عَلَى أَن يُحْيِىَ الْمَوْتَى ﴾


(Is not He able to give life to the dead) (75:40) he would say, "Glory to You, of course.'' Qatadah said,


﴿سَبِّحِ اسْمَ رَبِّكَ الاّعْلَى ﴾


(Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High.) "It has been mentioned to us that whenever the Prophet of Allah used to recite it he would say,


«سُبْحَانَ رَبِّيَ الْأَعْلَى»


(Glory to my Lord, the Most High.)''

[Malaikah]

An interesting point: If I am not mistaken Shaykh Bin Baz wrote to a president/leader who waas thinking of removing all the Quls out of the Qur'an, and urged him not to.

:sl:

:skeleton: What on earth was he thinking??

[Umar001]

:sl:

:skeleton: What on earth was he thinking??

Wa Alaykum Salam, I made a mistake, he, it appears, did not write but called.

The Shaykh advises President Gadaffi of Libya

Concerning the Imaam, the Shaykh - 'Abdul-'Azeez ibn Baaz (rahima-hullaah), Doctor Bassaam Khidar ash-Shatee narrates:

"From amongst his noble actions was when he called the President of Libya, Mu’ammar Gadaffi, and informed him of the prohibition of removing the word {Qul} from the soorahs (of the Qur.aan), and that pronouncing it was obligatory. The Shaykh did this, because he had heard the President had ordered the radio stations and the reciters in the masaajid to stop (reciting the word {Qul}), as he had also had the official textbooks changed to affect this order. As a result of Shaykh Ibn Baaz’s call, the President was convinced and returned to that which was (Islaamically) correct.

Likewise, when he called the former President of Tunisia and explained to him Allaah’s ruling regarding the ud.hiyah sacrifice and fasting, and that both of them do not adversely affect the path of progress and development (of a nation), and he gave the former President convincing evidence to prove this.”

Mawaaqif madhee.ah fee hayaat al-Imaam 'Abdul-'Azeez Ibn Baaz - Page 189

Taken from Fatwa-online.com here

[Malaikah]

:sl:

MashaAllah! and good on the President for listening to him too!

[Mazhara]

For finding answer to your question, you will have to critically read verse 87 of Surat AlHijr

وَلَقَدۡ ءَاتَيۡنَـٰكَ سَبۡعً۬ا مِّنَ ٱلۡمَثَانِى وَٱلۡقُرۡءَانَ ٱلۡعَظِيمَ (٨٧)
And indeed We have given you {addressee is one male, i.e. the Messenger}seven {here seven is feminine}from ٱلۡمَثَانِى And Grand Quran”

And then see what ٱلۡمَثَانِى is?

ٱللَّهُ نَزَّلَ أَحۡسَنَ ٱلۡحَدِيثِ كِتَـٰبً۬ا مُّتَشَـٰبِهً۬ا مَّثَانِىَ

We will try to understand the meanings and perception infolded in the words of this verse later; here we are trying to understand from where those سَبۡعً۬ا have been given.

Now see some facts which you may or may not have noticed:
Quran is always referred in Masculine.
Ayat are always referred in Feminine.
Surat is/are always referred in Feminine.

It is only and only the سَبۡعً۬ا مِّنَ ٱلۡمَثَانِى which begins with
بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ and it carries a number (1).
And 113 chapters of Grand Quran do not have
بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ in the beginning.
You might find it written in the beginning of 112 chapters {excepting chapter 9} in the copy of the Quran in your possession but you will notice nowhere it is numbered since it is not the part of the Quran.
We {traditionally} write it in the written/printed texts for the convenience of general public since those who have already become believers in the Book have to begin recitation with the name of Allah.

And study the meanings of the word ٱلۡمَثَانِى which is derived from the Root “ث ن ي”۔ the basic perception infolded in the Root ثني you may find in Lane’s lexicon like this:
He doubled it, or folded it;
he turned one part of it upon another; he bent it; he drew, or contracted, one of its two extremities to [or to-wards} the other, or joined, or adjoined, one of them to the other; thus bending it; namely, a stick, or branch, or twig, or a thing of any kind.
Signifies He took the half of their property: or he drew, or ad-joined,
to him what became with him two:

also signifies He made eleven to be twelve.
He made it two;
He dualized it,
He set it aside as excluded;
or he set it aide, or apart.

سَبۡعً۬ا مِّنَ ٱلۡمَثَانِى+113 chapters of Grand Quran = 114 Surat
7 verses + 6229 verses of Grand Quran = 6236 Ayat

سَبۡعً۬ا مِّنَ ٱلۡمَثَانِى is only for a Muslim and could only have been given to a Muslim for the first time. My Lord the Messenger {peace, salam, respects and praise is always upon him without interruption} is a Muslim before being given سَبۡعً۬ا مِّنَ ٱلۡمَثَانِى.

سَبۡعً۬ا مِّنَ ٱلۡمَثَانِى are extracted/set aside from the Grand Quran and phrased for Muslims to say it as petition/prayer; a communication between the created and The Creator.

I have hurriedly framed these points for your study. I wish I could quickly translate a 52 page Article on سَبۡعً۬ا مِّنَ ٱلۡمَثَانِى which is in Urdu. However I will post it for the study of those Members/visitors who understand Urdu. May be someone quickly translates it.

In addition I am posting an article in English “Introduction of Quran: The only Infinitely Reliable Book”.

Since Grand Quran is for everyone, Muslim and non muslim, therefore, whatever is to be stated by the Last Messenger to the people which thereupon becomes his "Qaul"{saying, words thrown, hurled into the air as recognizable sound/speech} therefore it is always preceeded by "Qul" {Say, tell, answer to them, inform him/them} so that it should be understood that those are not the words/Hadith of the Messenger but what he is saying is the Hadith of Allah. Similarly when anyone is told in the Quran to say something to someone it is preceeded by "Qul".

Thanks.