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north_malaysian
06-23-2008, 07:21 AM
Islam 'recognizes homosexuality'

Abdul Khalik , The Jakarta Post , Jakarta | Fri, 03/28/2008 1:38 AM | Headlines

Homosexuals and homosexuality are natural and created by God, thus permissible within Islam, a discussion concluded here Thursday.

Moderate Muslim scholars said there were no reasons to reject homosexuals under Islam, and that the condemnation of homosexuals and homosexuality by mainstream ulema and many other Muslims was based on narrow-minded interpretations of Islamic teachings.

Siti Musdah Mulia of the Indonesia Conference of Religions and Peace cited the Koran's al-Hujurat (49:3) that one of the blessings for human beings was that all men and women are equal, regardless of ethnicity, wealth, social positions or even sexual orientation.

"There is no difference between lesbians and nonlesbians. In the eyes of God, people are valued based on their piety," she told the discussion organized by nongovernmental organization Arus Pelangi.

"And talking about piety is God's prerogative to judge," she added.
"The essence of the religion (Islam) is to humanize humans, respect and dignify them."

Musdah said homosexuality was from God and should be considered natural, adding it was not pushed only by passion.

Mata Air magazine managing editor Soffa Ihsan said Islam's acknowledgement of heterogeneity should also include homosexuality.

He said Muslims needed to continue to embrace ijtihad (the process of making a legal decision by independent interpretation of the Koran and the Sunnah) to avoid being stuck in the old paradigm without developing open-minded interpretations.

Another speaker at the discussion, Nurofiah of the Nahdlatul Ulama (NU), said the dominant notion of heterogeneity was a social construction, leading to the banning of homosexuality by the majority.

"Like gender bias or patriarchy, heterogeneity bias is socially constructed. It would be totally different if the ruling group was homosexuals," she said.
Other speakers said the magnificence of Islam was that it could be blended and integrated into local culture.

"In fact, Indonesia's culture has accepted homosexuality. The homosexual group in Bugis-Makassar tradition called Bissu is respected and given a high position in the kingdom.

"Also, we know that in Ponorogo (East Java) there has been acknowledgement of homosexuality," Arus Pelangi head Rido Triawan said.

Condemnation of homosexuality was voiced by two conservative Muslim groups, the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) and Hizbut Thahir Indonesia (HTI).

"It's a sin. We will not consider homosexuals an enemy, but we will make them aware that what they are doing is wrong," MUI deputy chairman Amir Syarifuddin said.

Rokhmat, of the hardline HTI, several times asked homosexual participants in attendance to repent and force themselves to gradually return to the right path.

Source: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...39.html?page=5
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cute123
06-23-2008, 07:37 AM
i wonder at times this might be the reason for various earthquakes that happen in indonesia. Many previous nations were destroyed because of this sin.
Reply

north_malaysian
06-23-2008, 09:02 AM
I dont care if a Muslim want to be a gay or lesbian...

But dont ever use Islam giving approval to fulfill non Islamic sexual lust...
Reply

Muslim Knight
06-23-2008, 09:19 AM
Allow me to curse in my own native tongue:

Kepala bapak diaaa!!~
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north_malaysian
06-23-2008, 09:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
Allow me to curse in my own native tongue:

Kepala bapak diaaa!!~
For those who dont understand Malaysian Language....it's not the "f word" or a "racist remark".
Reply

Souljette
06-23-2008, 10:14 AM
"Moderate muslims" allow me to recommend the Battle of Hearts and Minds by Imam Anwar AL Awlaki to whoever's reading this..amazing lecture
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IbnAbdulHakim
06-23-2008, 10:33 AM
Moderate Muslim scholars said there were no reasons to reject homosexuals under Islam,
^ im guessing these scholars kinda skimmed over surah Al-Araf?

We also (sent) Lut: He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you?

For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."
[Surah Al-Araf Verses 80-81]
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mehnaz
06-23-2008, 11:21 AM
Astaghfirullah!
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AvarAllahNoor
06-23-2008, 11:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Asma Shaikh
i wonder at times this might be the reason for various earthquakes that happen in indonesia. Many previous nations were destroyed because of this sin.

No, that's due to the evil corrupt people who kill others of different faiths because they think they are 'right'!
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SixTen
06-23-2008, 12:02 PM
Nothing new, reformists exist for everything nowadays.
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czgibson
06-23-2008, 12:04 PM
Greetings,

This has come as a bit of a surprise. I thought Islam's hatred for homosexuality was clearly established and unalterable.

Peace
Reply

SixTen
06-23-2008, 12:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

This has come as a bit of a surprise. I thought Islam's hatred for homosexuality was clearly established and unalterable.

Peace
It is a minority opinionn, a great minority, that Islam actually recognises homosexuality. Islam does not condone nor recognise homosexuality well, it is evident from its text. I don't know why people have to pretend it does. If you don't like it, its one thing to not follow it - but why change something to how you want it - You may aswell not be following it to begin with.
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czgibson
06-23-2008, 12:17 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by SixTen
It is a minority opinionn, a great minority, that Islam actually recognises homosexuality. Islam does not condone nor recognise homosexuality well, it is evident from its text. I don't know why people have to pretend it does. If you don't like it, its one thing to not follow it - but why change something to how you want it - You may aswell not be following it to begin with.
I can definitely see your point. I suppose the minority view is just an attempt to fit in with the modern world, which tends to be a lot more liberal than mainstream Islam would like.

Peace
Reply

S_87
06-23-2008, 12:20 PM
these people are sellout retards. How dare they say such crap. Islam will never accept homosexuality.
Infact muslims reject these people who issue such stupid statements.
Reply

SixTen
06-23-2008, 12:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


I can definitely see your point. I suppose the minority view is just an attempt to fit in with the modern world, which tends to be a lot more liberal than mainstream Islam would like.

Peace
Yes, I think the cause is that Islam is alot of peoples Identity so to say and they attached to it on a cultural level - but find many things in it wrong themselves - so they wish to reform it to a way they find more appealing. Problem with this is ofcourse

a) Isn't it undermiming what you stated as to be divine?
b) Where does it start and where does it all stop?

Reformists are usually seen as religious intellectuals - but is it really intellectual to reform when it hurts the credibility of the religion as well as causes division? Food for thought.

If you think its from God, nothing should deter you from anything it says - It is just showing lack of faith to change it to fit with what you see as acceptable in society. Doesn't this mean you have a totally different motive by following the religion?
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Muslim Knight
06-23-2008, 12:30 PM
One thing I noticed they neglected to mention which "moderate Muslim scholars". Back here in Malaysia almost everyone wants to become ulema, including pork-eating Chinese politicians and liberalists who can quote a few translated verses from the Quran.
Reply

Azy
06-23-2008, 12:53 PM
I think part of the problem here is that noone seems to differentiate between homosexuals (who are simply attracted to the same sex) and those who practise sodomy.
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cute123
06-23-2008, 12:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor

No, that's due to the evil corrupt people who kill others of different faiths because they think they are 'right'!
No in stated clear in Quraan, that previous nations who had this illness were destroyed. Morover just take a look at the places where mostly these sought of incidents occur. USA - the weather is full of hurricanes there , indonesia, jakarta. as the verses are already mentioned by akhee ibn abdul Hakim. The people of Lut were destroyed for their indecent acts.
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aminahjaan
06-23-2008, 01:00 PM
What the J@hannam!?
What's going on with this world.
I swear to God I think the day of Qiyamah is coming soon,
like all the signs are starting to come true and the extremes of it
Like the sign is that there will be, Gays Lesbians and Bisexuals
BUT IN MUSLIMS?!
AND "MODERN" SCHOLARS ARE ACCEPTING IT?!

May Allah save us from this indecency and going against the nature he created us in.
Reply

Sarada
06-23-2008, 01:07 PM
Global Human Rights for Queers, a panel discussion to be held in Toronto Canada at Ryerson on June23, 2008.

One of the Keynote speakers will be:

Imam Daayiee Abdullah - one of only two openly gay Imams in the world and the author of “A Homosexual Positive Interpretation of the Lut Story in the Holy Quran".
Reply

north_malaysian
06-23-2008, 01:13 PM
One thing that I cant get it from these Gay/Lesbian "Muslim scholars"... even if God allows Homosexuality...for sure the sexual thingy should be done by marriage...not free sex...right?:exhausted
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Sarada
06-23-2008, 01:17 PM
That's why they are asking for legalized marriage.
Reply

AntiKarateKid
06-23-2008, 01:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
One thing that I cant get it from these Gay/Lesbian "Muslim scholars"... even if God allows Homosexuality...for sure the sexual thingy should be done by marriage...not free sex...right?:exhausted
In time these farcical "moderate scholars" may recognize sex outside of marriage too. This may or may not be before bestiality is condoned by these people too. I am honestly stunned by this news that anyone could ever use Islam to condone this. What am I supposed to make of this? Anyone?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
06-23-2008, 01:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sarada
Global Human Rights for Queers, a panel discussion to be held in Toronto Canada at Ryerson on June23, 2008.

One of the Keynote speakers will be:

Imam Daayiee Abdullah - one of only two openly gay Imams in the world and the author of “A Homosexual Positive Interpretation of the Lut Story in the Holy Quran".
now that is seriously interesting!

For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."
^ someone please tell me how this can be turned homo positive?
Reply

aminahjaan
06-23-2008, 01:23 PM
[qoute]



^ someone please tell me how this can be turned homo positive?[/quote]

That's the thing....THERE ISN'T ANY WAY.
If someone tries changing the context of Quran, that's haram on allll levels.
Why can't people understand Allah's wisdom behind things rather than try beating around the bush...
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aamirsaab
06-23-2008, 01:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
In time these farcical "moderate scholars" may recognize sex outside of marriage too. This may or may not be before bestiality is condoned by these people too. I am honestly stunned by this news that anyone could ever use Islam to condone this. What am I supposed to make of this? Anyone?
Lol, I'm with you on this one. Considering I just last night read a passage on homosexuality with regards to sharia law, I find it very peculiar for any muslim to condone homosexuality, let alone an imaam (as shown in sarada's post). It's mindboggling but there is some hope within the text:
format_quote Originally Posted by the text
Condemnation of homosexuality was voiced by two conservative Muslim groups, the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) and Hizbut Thahir Indonesia (HTI).

"It's a sin. We will not consider homosexuals an enemy, but we will make them aware that what they are doing is wrong," MUI deputy chairman Amir Syarifuddin said.

Rokhmat, of the hardline HTI, several times asked homosexual participants in attendance to repent and force themselves to gradually return to the right path.
So at least there is a voice being heard condemmning it. But, I guess with homosexuality becoming increasing more socially acceptable, this piece of news shouldn't surprise me as much...
Reply

S1aveofA11ah
06-23-2008, 04:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


I can definitely see your point. I suppose the minority view is just an attempt to fit in with the modern world, which tends to be a lot more liberal than mainstream Islam would like.

Peace
Islam doesn't care how liberal the modern world is or isn't because at the end of the day Islam is a religion and not really a tangible thing with feelings to get hurt.

Islam is here right now in the modern world hence it is as modern in that sense as a religion can get.
Reply

SATalha
06-23-2008, 05:57 PM
The whole nation of Lut was destroyed.......how can a positive meaning be derived from that? They all got dead......:-[

If you wanna be gay or lesbien.....why drag Islamic approval into this?
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snakelegs
06-23-2008, 07:57 PM
i know that in recent years there are some in all 3 "western" religions who condone homosexuality even though it is clearly forbidden in the bible as well as the qur'an.
i would be very curious to know how they justify it because of the clear prohibition in their holy books.
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SATalha
06-23-2008, 08:11 PM
We recently had in London two Gay priest getting married in St Barts Church, Anglican i think they where. I coudnt see Jesus PBUH attending the ceremony:blind:
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ajazz
06-23-2008, 08:43 PM
Assalamulykum

my request to brothers (sisters) please do not post junk news
please first do some research about the topic and post it only if it is beneficial to discuss such topic.
it is very clear homosexuality is not allowed in Islam there it no need to discuss it.
All this talk about reform and reinterpretation is nonsense.
Allah(swt) has said this day I have completed for you your religion
thats it.
In Islam all the rules and regulation, morals and ethics are such that anybody can follow it since Islam is for whole mankind.
Islam cannot be changed to suit the current trend.
previously in western society homosexuality was not accepted and there were laws against it, but now it is a different story and if in future incest is practiced by notable minority, so incest should be acceptable and may be after that if few notable minority enjoy cannibalism, it would be ok too.

many religions have fallen to such practices of addition and deletion in the name of reform and have ended up being corrupted.

Allah(swt) in his divine wisdom has laid down his laws which are perfect
even though we sometime wonder why Allah(swt) has made such a rule
you must understand that Allah(swt) is the creator of everything and he knows the ins and outs of human physiology and behavior.

In Islam things which are clearly stated cannot be debated and changed and thing which are not clear can be discussed by qualified scholars and concluded.


the the organization that held the discussion is Arus Pelangi which
was formed in January 2006 in Indonesia for formal legal representation of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and transgender (LGBT) Communities.

If there are any Muslims who are gay and if they love Allah(swt) and respect his laws then they must know that it is possible to change sexual orientation if they have determination

Interview With Michael Glatze: A Former Gay Activist Explains How He Left Homosexuality

http://tinyurl.com/c3jz4

Are people born homosexual?

http://tinyurl.com/6569xz

What Causes Homosexual Desire and Can It Be Changed?


http://tinyurl.com/67tkrj


.

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north_malaysian
06-24-2008, 03:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ajazz
my request to brothers (sisters) please do not post junk news
It's not a junk news...it's being reported by Jakarta Post, a daily newspaper

format_quote Originally Posted by ajazz
please first do some research about the topic and post it only if it is beneficial to discuss such topic.
It's being post here in order to bring alert to the worldwide Muslim community...

format_quote Originally Posted by ajazz
it is very clear homosexuality is not allowed in Islam there it no need to discuss it.
It's mentioned down below of the article...


format_quote Originally Posted by ajazz
All this talk about reform and reinterpretation is nonsense.
also being mentioned in the article..
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north_malaysian
06-24-2008, 03:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
In time these farcical "moderate scholars" may recognize sex outside of marriage too. This may or may not be before bestiality is condoned by these people too. I am honestly stunned by this news that anyone could ever use Islam to condone this. What am I supposed to make of this? Anyone?
yeah...I'm not surprised if "free sex", "incest" and "bestiality" being recognised by them too...

Years ago, a Muslim "scholar" in Malaysia said that single mothers are allowed to be prostitutes if they have no qualifications or dont have the means to do other kind of jobs.:raging:
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snakelegs
06-24-2008, 06:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian

Years ago, a Muslim "scholar" in Malaysia said that single mothers are allowed to be prostitutes if they have no qualifications or dont have the means to do other kind of jobs.:raging:
that's criminal - why not help them with $ so they don't have to do that?! :raging:
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adeeb
06-24-2008, 06:51 AM
i'm indonesian and i know who is musdah Mulia.

she is a liberal islam activist that continues to break down the 'conservative' value of islam to suit todays life.

she got a medal from USA because of her brave to tell the 'truth' and spread this message among indonesian muslim.

we are here always trying to tell people about the right islam and make them study from our scholar, but it's not easy because of these people.

they have their own magazine and TV channel that always make bad image of conservative islam (according to quran and sunnah).

so please pray for us here to spread the right islam to the people.
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north_malaysian
06-24-2008, 07:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
that's criminal - why not help them with $ so they don't have to do that?! :raging:
The worst thing is that the Muslim scholar is a woman - Dr. Ma****ah Ibrahim.

How can a woman suggest another woman to go selling her body if she doesnt have education qualifications or career experiences...

as if those single mothers are stupid.

And yeah.... she was my lecturer in the university. But she made that statement after joining UMNO and left her position in the university.
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north_malaysian
06-24-2008, 07:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by adeeb
i'm indonesian and i know who is musdah Mulia.

she is a liberal islam activist that continues to break down the 'conservative' value of islam to suit todays life.

she got a medal from USA because of her brave to tell the 'truth' and spread this message among indonesian muslim.

we are here always trying to tell people about the right islam and make them study from our scholar, but it's not easy because of these people.

they have their own magazine and TV channel that always make bad image of conservative islam (according to quran and sunnah).

so please pray for us here to spread the right islam to the people.
In Malaysia, we have Sisters in Islam... but never heard about their stand on homosexuality... but they really support Amina Wadud...
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adeeb
06-24-2008, 07:21 AM
The world's near the end.

Also, i shocked when i saw on youtube about muslim gay pride in UK.

how can??!
thats impossible, joining islam and Gay.

where are the true scholars in UK?? why they are in silence??

the people need to go back to QURAN and HADEETH as our guides in Islam.
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north_malaysian
06-24-2008, 07:33 AM
how about those openly gay "imams".....:exhausted

why bother calling himself an imam when he's having fun with another man...
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adeeb
06-24-2008, 07:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
how about those openly gay "imams".....:exhausted

why bother calling himself an imam when he's having fun with another man...
unbelievable :raging::laugh:
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SouLda_Gal
06-24-2008, 01:33 PM
islam and allows homosexuality... total bullsh*t.... deze ppl r messd in deir heads... wonder wats in it :raging:
Reply

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