Zimbabwe elections.

[good ol' faith]

Does anyone else feel that we should do something about Robert Mugabe?
Morgan Tsvangirai is not to blame for the violence! Robert Mugabe is! Robert Mugabe accuses the MDC for lying about the violence but it is himself who is a liar!

[Izyan]

Does anyone else feel that we should do something about Robert Mugabe?
Morgan Tsvangirai is not to blame for the violence! Robert Mugabe is! Robert Mugabe accuses the MDC for lying about the violence but it is himself who is a liar!

Why should we? It's not our problem. Everyone wants us to stop playing world cop. I say we give them what they want.

[aamirsaab]

Why should we? It's not our problem. Everyone wants us to stop playing world cop. I say we give them what they want.

Conveniant how you want this after the iraqi/afghani mess, isn't it?

The UK and US should do something about Mugabe - that is, if they are as altruistic as they like to act. But, they probably won't - I mean, if we don't do anything about a country (aka N. Korea) that actually launches a missile at the US, I doubt we'll be taking down Mugabe (who just beats/kills his own citizens) anytime soon.

[Izyan]

Conveniant how you want this after the iraqi/afghani mess, isn't it?

The UK and US should do something about Mugabe - that is, if they are as altruistic as they like to act.

Cause and effect. I say we pull out of Iraq, pull out of Afghanistan (less special ops to kill Bin Laden), remove all troops from Europe, Withdraw from NATO, remove all troops from Asia that's not on of territories, and cut all aid to all countries. Sign special treaties with the UK, Australia, Poland, Denmark, Japan, and India and tell the rest of the world to go jump. You need supplies delivered to Indonesia after a disaster? Sure we'll help but first how much you got?

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[aamirsaab]

Cause and effect. I say we pull out of Iraq, pull out of Afghanistan (less special ops to kill Bin Laden), remove all troops from Europe, Withdraw from NATO, remove all troops from Asia that's not on of territories, and cut all aid to all countries. Sign special treaties with the UK, Australia, Poland, Denmark, Japan, and India and tell the rest of the world to go jump. You need supplies delivered to Indonesia after a disaster? Sure we'll help but first how much you got?

Real humanitarian approach you got there.

[Izyan]

Real humanitarian approach you got there.

Allah provides brother not the US.

[aamirsaab]

Allah provides brother not the US.

Mock all you want, you're still in the wrong.

[Izyan]

Mock all you want, you're still in the wrong.

Explain to me how I am in the wrong

[aamirsaab]

Explain to me how I am in the wrong

Those with power have responsibility. You want the US to negate it's responsibility by passing the buck onto God. You're using a technicality to get out of charity - that's wrong.

[Izyan]

Those with power have responsibility. You want the US to negate it's responsibility by passing the buck onto God. You're using a technicality to get out of charity - that's wrong.

The American public can give to whoever they please but it's not the responsibility of the US government to do the same. I'm going to use muslims as an example (this also involves a lot of other countries and people so don't misconstrue this as an anti-muslim rant). The muslim world wants us out of their affairs right? It is regularly stated that we are the main culprits in the unrest in the muslim world. If we pull all resources out then you are no longer burdened with this problem. We will no longer prop up regimes you don't like. We will no longer support Israel. We will no longer sell weapons to anyone in the ME. On the flip side we will no longer wheel in Israel when it's feeling their oats. We will no longer protect muslims from people like Milosevich. We will no longer supply aid to places like China during earthquakes, Indonesia during Tsunamis, and Korea during Famines. You can't hae it both ways. You can't rant about how bad the cow is and still eat the beef. Essentially I would be giving the world want it wants. We have things here at home the money would be better spent on.

[aamirsaab]

.... It is regularly stated that we are the main culprits in the unrest in the muslim world. If we pull all resources out then you are no longer burdened with this problem. We will no longer prop up regimes you don't like. We will no longer support Israel. We will no longer sell weapons to anyone in the ME. On the flip side we will no longer wheel in Israel when it's feeling their oats. We will no longer protect muslims from people like Milosevich. We will no longer supply aid to places like China during earthquakes, Indonesia during Tsunamis, and Korea during Famines. You can't hae it both ways. You can't rant about how bad the cow is and still eat the beef. Essentially I would be giving the world want it wants. We have things here at home the money would be better spent on.

Ah but the US is currently dealing with the middle east. In which case, why is the US (and UK for that matter) not in zimbabwe? It should be if it's meddling with the middle east, but it isn't is it?

[Izyan]

Ah but the US is currently dealing with the middle east. In which case, why is the US (and UK for that matter) not in zimbabwe? It should be if it's meddling with the middle east, but it isn't is it?

That's why I advocate pulling out of the ME, Europe, Asia, and Africa. It's none of our business. Let them figure it out.

[snakelegs]

Does anyone else feel that we should do something about Robert Mugabe?
Morgan Tsvangirai is not to blame for the violence! Robert Mugabe is! Robert Mugabe accuses the MDC for lying about the violence but it is himself who is a liar!

interesting question. (if only the u.n. was real and had teeth).
question is who is "we" - who should do it? and what should be done?
is there a way to get rid of mugabe without punishing the people? obviously bombing is not the answer. i don't think sanctions are either - they too, will hurt the people, not mugabe.
maybe best way would be IF we had a real u.n. - the u.n should send an assaisin. but back to reality....
in other words your question raises many other questions.
i really don't know how mugabe should be dealt with.

[Izyan]

interesting question. (if only the u.n. was real and had teeth).
question is who is "we" - who should do it? and what should be done?
is there a way to get rid of mugabe without punishing the people? obviously bombing is not the answer. i don't think sanctions are either - they too, will hurt the people, not mugabe.
maybe best way would be IF we had a real u.n. - the u.n should send an assaisin. but back to reality....
in other words your question raises many other questions.
i really don't know how mugabe should be dealt with.

Is it our place to send an assasin? Wasn't he legally elected? If the people want him desposed they have the power to do it.

[The_Prince]

i agree with izyan, he thinks Muslims will fall apart if what he wants happens, yet the opposite will happen, it will take time to ADAPT, but we will adapt and will use all the money we have for our good, to make our own products, technology etc etc. this is very good if it happens, it will allow us Muslims to get away from all corrupt corporate products and businesses.

do you know how advanced we Muslims would be if all our natural resources werent being held in the hands of a few American puppets? we would be the most powerful, advanced peoples on this planet, just like the Golden days.

sadly this will never happen, were always going to be in bed with each other, the only time it will be good for us like the old days will be when the Mahdi and prophet Jesus appear. :) all will be good then, when both of them finnish their missions offcourse.

[Whatsthepoint]

interesting question. (if only the u.n. was real and had teeth).
question is who is "we" - who should do it? and what should be done?
is there a way to get rid of mugabe without punishing the people? obviously bombing is not the answer. i don't think sanctions are either - they too, will hurt the people, not mugabe.
maybe best way would be IF we had a real u.n. - the u.n should send an assaisin. but back to reality....
in other words your question raises many other questions.
i really don't know how mugabe should be dealt with.

For heavens sake, the guy is a hundred years old.

[Izyan]

i agree with izyan, he thinks Muslims will fall apart if what he wants happens, yet the opposite will happen, it will take time to ADAPT, but we will adapt and will use all the money we have for our good, to make our own products, technology etc etc. this is very good if it happens, it will allow us Muslims to get away from all corrupt corporate products and businesses.

do you know how advanced we Muslims would be if all our natural resources werent being held in the hands of a few American puppets? we would be the most powerful, advanced peoples on this planet, just like the Golden days.

sadly this will never happen, were always going to be in bed with each other, the only time it will be good for us like the old days will be when the Mahdi and prophet Jesus appear. :) all will be good then, when both of them finnish their missions offcourse.

Did I claim that? Did I say the muslim world would fall apart? Islam has been around since 600A.D. The Persians and the Turks longer than that. I don't think they are going anywhere anytime soon. I'm for letting people stand on their own 2 feet for a change. By the way without the West investment and technology that oil would still be in the ground. As it is they have to get foreigners to run the oil wells now.

[Izyan]

For heavens sake, the guy is a hundred years old.

Late 70's but close enough

[north_malaysian]

All Muslim nations must cut off diplomatic relationship with Zimbabwe... this Mugabe is somewhere between Hitler and Idi Amin.

[snakelegs]

For heavens sake, the guy is a hundred years old.

not sure what this has to do with anything. no matter how old he is he is causing oppression and suffering and even if he lives for another week, he will cause more.

[snakelegs]

Is it our place to send an assasin? Wasn't he legally elected? If the people want him desposed they have the power to do it.

this is why i said "maybe". the questions raised by the OP are very difficult ones and raise more questions and i don't know the answers.
normally, i think yes - people should handle their own problems themselves and outsiders should mind their own business.
but if a ruler is killing people outside intervention is indicated rather than wait until the people can get rid of him and have hundreds of thousands more people killed or tortured.
questions are who should do it and how (without it harming even more innocent people (like bombings or sanctions, which never effect the ruler anyway)? and is it even do-able? i think if something can be done, it would have to be on some kind of an international level.

[Trumble]

normally, i think yes - people should handle their own problems themselves and outsiders should mind their own business.

The trouble is that, at least in the case of the neighbouring states, the Zimbabwe situation will very quickly become "their business" even more than it is already. There has already been violence in South Africa between Zimbawean exiles fleeing the Mugabe regime and those who wish they had stayed at home. (Daily Telegraph). Zimbabwe is an economic disaster, with inflation so high prices can literally double between the shelf and the checkout and unemployment at 80%. That is not sustainable, sooner or later people will starve unless they go to war, or move, and they will try to move outside Zimbabwe... into refugee camps that make those in the Lebanon look like holiday camps.

I just don't understand why Mbeki continues to do nothing. It is obvious 'quiet diplomacy' was and is a total failure and that progress is not possible. Sooner or later South Africa and the other countries neighbouring Zimbabwe must act. Unlike the UK and US, the blood will start to flow on their streets if they do not.

I doubt an assassin would solve anything. I don't think Mugabe is even pulling the strings any more; there are just too many of his cronies with their own position and wealth to protect, and responsibility for the massacres in Matabeleland (and a great many other things) that an MDC government would hold them to account for. When such people includine all those in senior positions in both army and police it is almost impossible to dislodge them other than by violent uprising.

[Muezzin]

Stop fighting please. More rational discussion, less passive aggression. Thanks.

[TrueStranger]

Does anyone else feel that we should do something about Robert Mugabe?
Morgan Tsvangirai is not to blame for the violence! Robert Mugabe is! Robert Mugabe accuses the MDC for lying about the violence but it is himself who is a liar!

Mele Zenawi?:?

Check him out.

I am tried of the West supporting one dictator while trying to criticize the other one.

[smile]

i have questions????
does the media ever show why so many zims support mugabe
is the west behind tsvangari for a reason

ARE U VOTING FOR MUGABE OR MUGABE
lol...................


when mugabe moves white farmers or ppl of their lands
itsn't it the same thing when western governments say that immigrants should not come in their country

....just saying.

[Trumble]

when mugabe moves white farmers or ppl of their lands
itsn't it the same thing when western governments say that immigrants should not come in their country

....just saying.

No, it isn't. White farmers aren't the issue. It's not the redistribution of land, which was inevitable and had it been done fairly probably just, but the people it was given to. Instead of the land being given to those who actually laboured on it it was given to "war veterans" (i.e Mugabe cronies) who - unlike their colonial predecessors, simply had no idea what to do with it. Hence the bread basket of Africa became the basket case of Africa.

[James1992]

Late 70's but close enough

Brother if you are on about Robert Mugabe he is 84 year old..

[Whatsthepoint]

not sure what this has to do with anything. no matter how old he is he is causing oppression and suffering and even if he lives for another week, he will cause more.

The world is full of cruel dicatators and oppressing regimes. Why fight a 84-year-old?

[James1992]

I think the Zimbabwean army is behind him they could do a coup now while he is in Egypt but they arnt...

[Izyan]

Once again why are we concerned? It's not our problem

[aamirsaab]

The world is full of cruel dicatators and oppressing regimes. Why fight a 84-year-old?

Now now, let's not discriminate against the elderly. We shouldn't let mugabe feel left out because of his old age.

[Keltoi]

Realistically, since we mostly agree that wiping the floor with Mugabe's military isn't going to solve anything, what other options are there? The Western governments have condemned the election as a sham and denounced Mugabe personally. What else is there besides military action? Yes, if the U.N. was actually a functioning entity it could occupy Zimbabwe and enforce a fair and free election. However, that isn't going to happen. The U.N. only has two teeth, the U.S. and the U.K., who have obigations elsewhere.

On a side note, since N. Korea was mentioned, the U.S. and the other five involved nations are working very closely with them to destroy their nuclear capability. North Korea allowed the destruction of one of their facilities to be taped as evidence and handed over all documents relating to personel and technology. So North Korea is hardly forgotten.

[James1992]

If anyones interested the ICC the international cricket council held a vote on banning Zimbabwe from cricket only India and Pakistan voted against...

[mediadave]

Once again why are we concerned? It's not our problem

Exactly. Why care about the Palestinians etc? Its not our problem.











(That was sarcasm by the way.)

[Izyan]

Exactly. Why care about the Palestinians etc? Its not our problem.











(That was sarcasm by the way.)

I agree why care?

[James1992]

Well Palestians are our brothers....But Colonel Gaddafi leader of Libya since 1969 sais when Libya were getting bombed by the Americans and under un sanctions fellow arabs turned there backs on his country...

[mediadave]

Well Palestians are our brothers

Are Zimbabweans not your brothers? You cannot deny that what is happening now in Zimbabwe is worse than anything the Palestinian's are living through (Though neither compare to the genocide of muslims in Darfur, of course).

[James1992]

Are Zimbabweans not your brothers? You cannot deny that what is happening now in Zimbabwe is worse than anything the Palestinian's are living through (Though neither compare to the genocide of muslims in Darfur, of course).

Brother it is Muslims doing (most) not all of the genocide but most of it the Janjaweed militia....And Palestians are locked in a cage the Zionists and Egyptians have locked them in...

[AvarAllahNoor]

AU should intervene. They don't seem to give a monkeys. Though some coutries in Africa have the same kind of rulers as Mugabe is, so they can't attack what they do themselves! Mebekhi says nothing, only Kenyan leader has. But as you atch/hear th news, they don't too bothered at all. It's like 'Meh so what'

UK/US should put pressure on, but sanctions won't work Russia and China have blocked them. They only hurt the people (sanctions I mean) Ethiopia have sent troops to Somalia (back by the US) but they can't send them to Zim? that's on the doorstep!

Oh well, may God have mercy on the people who are tourtured, raped, killed. (This goes for Sudan, Iraq etc etc)

[AvarAllahNoor]

I agree why care?

Because if you are a true believer, then you'd want to help those that are unfortunate, this is the message of God. If you claim to be religous and pious, yet state ''why should we care'' you're worse than the devil himself!

[James1992]

If you are Ethiopia should invade Zimbabwe it shoudnt why? it is thousands of miles away Ethiopia is bogged down in Somalia Ethiopia has good relations with Zimbabwe..and Ethiopia might be going to war with Eritea again if Eritea keeps on being aggressive...

[AvarAllahNoor]

Brother it is Muslims doing (most) not all of the genocide but most of it the Janjaweed militia....And Palestians are locked in a cage the Zionists and Egyptians have locked them in...

Well, I've said this before. If the Ummah was strong, all the 'Islamic' nations would join forces and try to resolve issues of the Palis, and more worldwide. But as many have said on here, they are consumed by wealth and care not for the rest. Sadly, this is the state the world is and nothing but the end is worth looking forward to!

[James1992]

It isnt just Sudan either Chad which is next to Sudan they have problems rebels tried and failed to take the capital n"djemena in Febuary of this year...they came close though..

[AvarAllahNoor]

If you are Ethiopia should invade Zimbabwe it shoudnt why? it is thousands of miles away Ethiopia is bogged down in Somalia Ethiopia has good relations with Zimbabwe..and Ethiopia might be going to war with Eritea again if Eritea keeps on being aggressive...

You've confused me with the first sentence...:?

Why? because they are in the AU. If a dictator (as Mugs is) when is the right time to stand up against injustice?

What is the current issue with Eritea? I'm not familiar with it.

[AvarAllahNoor]

It isnt just Sudan either Chad which is next to Sudan they have problems rebels tried and failed to take the capital n"djemena in Febuary of this year...they came close though..

Such conflicts exist all over the joint. The issue is, when are people going to try to resolve them. I don't think they can be, the world is a scary place us humans are insane. We do as we please and sod the consequences.

[James1992]

Bro sorry about the first sentence got my words mixed up....Ethiopia isnt a democracy itself you know bro...Its president has been in power sice 1995 or 1996..and the issue with Eritea is that it used to be Ethiopia it broke away in the 1990s it fought a war of independence with Ethiopia and another 2 year war 1998-2000 and Ethiopia is in Somalia now as we all know and Eritea is supporting the resistence....Eritea has also tried to invade Djibouti a country nearby...and has massed its troops on the border with Ethiopia...all this was about a month ago though...

[AvarAllahNoor]

Bro sorry about the first sentence got my words mixed up....Ethiopia isnt a democracy itself you know bro...Its president has been in power sice 1995 or 1996..and the issue with Eritea is that it used to be Ethiopia it broke away in the 1990s it fought a war of independence with Ethiopia and another 2 year war 1998-2000 and Ethiopia is in Somalia now as we all know and Eritea is supporting the resistence....Eritea has also tried to invade Djibouti a country nearby...and has massed its troops on the border with Ethiopia...all this was about a month ago though...

Ah, well seems like there is even more turmoil there. Oh well, annihlate the whole of the African continent and any other war torn place in the world. Only solution I can provide...

[James1992]

If you look at Africa though it is full of dictaors here is just a selections

colonel Gaddafi Libya came to power 1969
Mumbarak Egypt came to power in 1981
Idriss Deby Chad came to power in 1990
Omar al Bashir Sudan came to power in 1980s
Gabons leader being in power since 1960s

[AvarAllahNoor]

If you look at Africa though it is full of dictaors here is just a selections

colonel Gaddafi Libya came to power 1969
Mumbarak Egypt came to power in 1981
Idriss Deby Chad came to power in 1990
Omar al Bashir Sudan came to power in 1980s
Gabons leader being in power since 1960s

I know many exist. Though Gadafi is a changed man now, and has rejected terrorism and has befriended the USA again.

Sudan? well we all know what occurs there currently...

Egypt? him too? he can't be all bad, or the Egypitans would have ousted him I'm sure.

[James1992]

I disagree with you about Gaddafi he is only friends with America so he can make money on his oil...

[James1992]

Egypt the people hate him but the army and police love him the same as Zimbabwe..

[AvarAllahNoor]

Who isn't friends to make money with the USA and vice versa? the world is such. People and the well-being are pushed to the back as long as the Government can make a quick buck.

[James1992]

Good point but Gaddafi is supporting rebels in Darfur and rebels in Chad..

[AvarAllahNoor]

Good point but Gaddafi is supporting rebels in Darfur and rebels in Chad..

He has his reasons I'm sure. (Though I abore the killing of innocents) Just like USA have supported many rebels in South America.

[James1992]

Yes and now puppet corrupt goverments like Afghanistan Iraq and many others..