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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 08:51 PM
Allaah tells us in the Qur'aan that only Muslims will enter Jannah
.

Hahahahaha

So let me guess.. Allah creates humans in the first place and sends to hell those who have never heard of the existence of Allah ?
Is this admitting he wishes to punish those who do not submit to him ? Even if they are unaware of his existence ?
Why did he create them in the first place then ? To gain pleasure from their misery ?
Does that make Allah a favoritist ? a sadistic Creator ? a madosachist ?
Why would he feel the need to test his creations in the first place ? He is omnipotent so he must know the outcome already. If he created the universe why did he not create a utopia ? Surely he wants all those who oppose him to suffer on Earth and burn in hell.
The afterlife is limited to those born to parents of Muslim faith ?

I could think of a lot more when I have time
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'Abd al-Baari
07-06-2008, 08:54 PM
Hey,

Welcome.

You've just posted these in sections which require approval, but they've been deleted. Please do not spam all the boards with them.

Although we (the forum) allow you to share your thoughts and opinions, we request that you do in a good manner, and follow some ettiquettes and show some respect. Attacks on Islam will not be tolerated.

Many Thanks,

Abdul Baari :)

:peace:
Reply

M..x
07-06-2008, 08:54 PM
Your a Muslim..? Funny that..
Reply

TrueStranger
07-06-2008, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
.

Hahahahaha

So let me guess.. Allah creates humans in the first place and sends to hell those who have never heard of the existence of Allah ?
Is this admitting he wishes to punish those who do not submit to him ? Even if they are unaware of his existence ?
Why did he create them in the first place then ? To gain pleasure from their misery ?
Does that make Allah a favoritist ? a sadistic Creator ? a madosachist ?
Why would he feel the need to test his creations in the first place ? He is omnipotent so he must know the outcome already. If he created the universe why did he not create a utopia ? Surely he wants all those who oppose him to suffer on Earth and burn in hell.
The afterlife is limited to those born to parents of Muslim faith ?

I could think of a lot more when I have time
Question your own actions and deeds before you try to question Allah.
Reply

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Fishman
07-06-2008, 09:03 PM
:sl:
God is completely absolute, perfect. The fact that punishment is not absolute is mercy in itself.

Suffering in this world doesn't matter, its just a test of one's strength of faith and character.
:w:
Reply

SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 09:04 PM
Although we (the forum) allow you to share your thoughts and opinions, we request that you do in a good manner, and follow some ettiquettes and show some respect. Attacks on Islam will not be tolerated.
Ok. I won't spam and I won't attack anyone.

Just a couple things i've noticed:

-Allah is omnipotent
-Allah declares than only Muslims may enter Jannah
-Allah created humanity
-The religion of Islam has not existed since the beginning of humanity
-Allah is omnipotent thus he surely realizes this and knowingly lets millions of creatures burn in Hell
-Thus the conclusion = Allah is sadistic

The next question is, why does Allah like Muslims more than others ?
He could have created a world only filled with Muslims constantly praising him if he wanted to. But if he couldn't he is not omnipotent. If he is not omnipotent then he could not have created an immense universe.
Reply

Na7lah
07-06-2008, 09:10 PM
The next question is, why does Allah like Muslims more than others ?
if u created 2 robots and one obeyed u and the other disobeyed u wich one would u favor? plz answer that
Reply

SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 09:13 PM
Funny how I get rated negatively for using logic, knowledge and reason to disprove passages from the Koran.
if u created 2 robots and one obeyed u and the other disobeyed u wich one would u favor? plz answer that
If he has the power to create robots why would he create one that disobeyed ? Why wouldn't he just create one perfect robot and be done with it ? Does he enjoy seeing the imperfection of his creations ? Does he enjoy the misery and suffering he has induced in those that he does not deem worthy ? Answer that.
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Nájlá
07-06-2008, 09:13 PM
:sl:

"Verily those who believe, those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), the Christians and the Sabians any who believe In Allah and the last day, and work righteousness *hall have their reward with their Lord;They will not be overcome by fear nor grief (Soorah Al-Baqarah 2:62).

Q: Are non-Muslims condemned to Hell even if they did good and seem to have been genuinely pious.

A: Allah Most High tells us in the Qur'an,
"Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam will never have it accepted from him, and shall be of those who have truly failed in the next life." (Qur'an 3:85)

This is conditioned by His words, "We do not punish until We send a Messenger." (Qur'an 17:15)

Shaykh Adib Kallas, a leading Damascene scholar and theologian, put it very well: "We know that those who reject faith (man aba) are in Hell. It is not decisively established what exactly entails rejection of faith -- this is why the scholars of Sunni Islam differed. As for the details, we should concern ourselves with our own fate: Allah will ask us about ourselves, not about what He should do with others."

Ultimately, if (a) the message of Islam reached someone; and (b) they rejected it, then the verses and hadiths about being eternally in Hell would apply. At the level of individuals, it is a major question as to what reaching and rejecting entail. This is why we cannot judge whether individual non-Muslims are in Hell -- or, for that matter, in Heaven.
Reply

Tornado
07-06-2008, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
Ok. I won't spam and I won't attack anyone.

Just a couple things i've noticed:

-Allah is omnipotent
-Allah declares than only Muslims may enter Jannah
-Allah created humanity
-The religion of Islam has not existed since the beginning of humanity
-Allah is omnipotent thus he surely realizes this and knowingly lets millions of creatures burn in Hell
-Thus the conclusion = Allah is sadistic

The next question is, why does Allah like Muslims more than others ?
He could have created a world only filled with Muslims constantly praising him if he wanted to. But if he couldn't he is not omnipotent. If he is not omnipotent then he could not have created an immense universe.
You know the answers to all these questions. I don't think this is the best strategy of putting it all out there almost as if to insult. A lot of these questions are more or less being discussed and have their own threads so you can get answers there.
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Na7lah
07-06-2008, 09:16 PM
If he has the power to create robots why would he create one that disobeyed ? Why wouldn't he just create one perfect robot and be done with it ? Does he enjoy seeing the imperfection of his creations ? Does he enjoy the misery and suffering he has induced in those that he does not deem worthy ? Answer that.
u didnt answer mine
Reply

Mr. Baldy
07-06-2008, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
Ok. I won't spam and I won't attack anyone.

Just a couple things i've noticed:

-Allah is omnipotent
-Allah declares than only Muslims may enter Jannah
-Allah created humanity
-The religion of Islam has not existed since the beginning of humanity
-Allah is omnipotent thus he surely realizes this and knowingly lets millions of creatures burn in Hell
-Thus the conclusion = Allah is sadistic

The next question is, why does Allah like Muslims more than others ?
He could have created a world only filled with Muslims constantly praising him if he wanted to. But if he couldn't he is not omnipotent. If he is not omnipotent then he could not have created an immense universe.
your logic is... well, non existent.

Islam has existed since the beginning of humanity, just in less evolved forms than that which we see today.

your other question, 'what will happen to those who haven't heard of Islam' my understanding (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that if in the very rare case that no one has heard of Islam, then on the day of judgment he will test them separately. He will also question YOU for not spreading the deen, since it is ALL muslim's duty, nay fardh to give Dawah (invitation) to Islam.

I suggest you do your research before you start posting ludacris insults about the most high and the deen.
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Fishman
07-06-2008, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
Ok. I won't spam and I won't attack anyone.

Just a couple things i've noticed:

-Allah is omnipotent
Correct.

-Allah declares than only Muslims may enter Jannah
Correct.

-Allah created humanity
Correct.

-The religion of Islam has not existed since the beginning of humanity
No idea what you mean. God's Commands and Laws have existed since the first man, and even before that.

-Allah is omnipotent thus he surely realizes this and knowingly lets millions of creatures burn in Hell
You miss out the fact that humans have free will. God knows everything that we do, but lets us choose our path.

The next question is, why does Allah like Muslims more than others ?
If you disrespect something, the more important that thing is, the worse the consqences that you deserve.
Allah is Absolute, the Greatest, infinitely great in fact. If consequences scale with importance of the disrespected thing, then any disrespect deserves infinitely bad consequences. Even the slightest sinner would deserve the bottom of Hell, but Allah is also Most Merciful.

He could have created a world only filled with Muslims constantly praising him if he wanted to. But if he couldn't he is not omnipotent. If he is not omnipotent then he could not have created an immense universe.
Allah could have created everybody like Angels, but He didn't will that to happen. That we we choose to worship out of our own free will shows our devotion.
:w:
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Tornado
07-06-2008, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah421
u didnt answer mine
He/she did I think.
Reply

SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 09:21 PM
u didnt answer mine
Ok. I'd pick the robot that obeyed me. But why would he create a malfunctioning robot in the first place ? He is perfect isn't he ? Why would he put humans on Earth to test them if he already knows the results ? Why not send them directly to heaven ? Do they need the experience of an earthly life time ? But if Allah is perfect then surely he could bestow upon them all the knowledge they need without having to visit Earth, couldn't he ?


You know the answers to all these questions. I don't think this is the best strategy of putting it all out there almost as if to insult. A lot of these questions are more or less being discussed and have their own threads so you can get answers there.
I wouldn't call it an insult. I get kicks out of proving flaws in people's theories though.


"Verily those who believe, those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), the Christians and the Sabians any who believe In Allah and the last day, and work righteousness *hall have their reward with their Lord;They will not be overcome by fear nor grief (Soorah Al-Baqarah 2:62).
Fair enough. But why would he create Athiests or Agnostics in the first place then ? He surely knows they are destined for Hell
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Tornado
07-06-2008, 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
I wouldn't call it an insult. I get kicks out of proving flaws in people's theories though.
You're not proving these flaws to them. You have to realize religion is a very, very powerful thing.
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'Abd al-Baari
07-06-2008, 09:26 PM
:sl:

Ok. I'd pick the robot that obeyed me. But why would he create a malfunctioning robot in the first place ? He is perfect isn't he ? Why would he put humans on Earth to test them if he already knows the results ? Why not send them directly to heaven ? Do they need the experience of an earthly life time ? But if Allah is perfect then surely he could bestow upon them all the knowledge they need without having to visit Earth, couldn't he ?
Okay, hope this makes it a clear. Allah is perfect, because he is creatorless. Allah has no creator and has and will existed for eternity. No human is perfect, because we have been created. i.e being created is the first thing which makes us imperfect.

Allah Knows Best.

There's a thread somehere which explains this, i'll try and find it.
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Fishman
07-06-2008, 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
Ok. I'd pick the robot that obeyed me. But why would he create a malfunctioning robot in the first place ? He is perfect isn't he ? Why would he put humans on Earth to test them if he already knows the results ? Why not send them directly to heaven ? Do they need the experience of an earthly life time ? But if Allah is perfect then surely he could bestow upon them all the knowledge they need without having to visit Earth, couldn't he ?
Humans have free will.



I wouldn't call it an insult. I get kicks out of proving flaws in people's theories though.
Enjoying arguing is a character flaw, trust me.



Fair enough. But why would he create Athiests or Agnostics in the first place then ? He surely knows they are destined for Hell
Allah knows we are destined for Hell, but we have free will.
Threechars
Reply

Abdul Fattah
07-06-2008, 09:32 PM
Hi Slipknotgag, psychology 101 here.

Posibility 1:
You are angered, vengeful against Islam, and came here to loose steam, you'll end up banned after a while, and at worst just might have annoyed a handful of people.

Posibility 2:
You are bored and here to get some laughs. You'll end up banned in a while, and at worst just might have annoyed a handful of people.

Posibility 3:
You are genuinly trying to convince us that we are wrong. But in your arrogance and enthusiasm don't think you should actually try to make a case. People will get frustrated with your petty attempts and incoherency. Your lack of logically build arguments is mistaken for an attack, and you'll end up banned in a while accomplishing nothing, except learning that you took on your little project in all the wrong ways.

Whichever possibility is right, I care little to be honest. We allow freedom of speech, there is a sub forum called comparative religion where you can raise any questions you can think of, and have any sort of debate you want. However you'll be expected to post in the proper section, and have some courtesy. No baseless attacks and slander. Starting a post with "hahaha" is usually not the right way, and not the kind of first impression you'd want to make, if you expect people to take you serious. Anyway, that being said, your questions result from not knowing Islam. How can you judge something that you don't even know?
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 09:34 PM
Allah knows we are destined for Hell, but we have free will.
So he gives us free will to judge and think about religion but sends us to hell if we choose to disobey him ? Then he is surely a sadistic ruler. Not all humans have been exposed to Islam in their lifetimes, which means he is letting innocent creatures suffer.

You're not proving these flaws to them. You have to realize religion is a very, very powerful thing.
I agree. I could go on a Christian forum and they'd just quote passages from the Bible to try and disprove me. The work of man is being put on a pedestal as the word of God.
It's like trying to convince an 8 year old using logic and reasoning that Santa Claus is not real. Except 8 year olds don't quote passages from a Holy Christmas book.


Okay, hope this makes it a clear. Allah is perfect, because he is creatorless. Allah has no creator and has and will existed for eternity. No human is perfect, because we have been created. i.e being created is the first thing which makes us imperfect.
Alright he created all of us and we are imperfect. But if you're a clothing designer and you make a sweater that's ugly, are you a perfect clothing designer ?
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Tornado
07-06-2008, 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
It's like trying to convince an 8 year old using logic and reasoning that Santa Claus is not real. Except 8 year olds don't quote passages from a Holy Christmas book.
You are underestimating kids. I'd say that convincing an 8 year old using logic is easier than convincing an adult! Kids are very inquisitive.
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Fishman
07-06-2008, 09:38 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
So he gives us free will to judge and think about religion but sends us to hell if we choose to disobey him ? Then he is surely a sadistic ruler. Not all humans have been exposed to Islam in their lifetimes, which means he is letting innocent creatures suffer.
We have the choice to disobey Him, but not the right. You can rob a bank, but you don't have the right to do it.
:w:
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 09:41 PM
But humans have existed on Earth before religion. Which means that our ancestors are burning in hell for not believing in Allah, regardless of whether they were born thousands of years before him or not.
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'Abd al-Baari
07-06-2008, 09:41 PM
This should help, I hope. :)

The reason why God is God is because He is perfect.

In arabic, an illaah is anything which is worshipped. Worship consists of being a slave (abd), and doing anything which your master commands you (ibaadah.)

The only true illaah who can be obeyed is the One who is Perfect, this is why Islam does not permit the worship of the creation.

That's why, God is known as Al-Illaah (Allah) - the One and only true God.

Since God is not like His creation in any way, and He is Perfect. There is none similar or like Him in any way - this is a sign of His Uniqueness. So none shares His Power, Knowledge, Wisdom, or any of His Attributes.

For One to be Perfect, they can not have an equal in any way. So those who claim that God is similar to His creation - they are contradicting this concept.

There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer.
[Qur'an Ash-Shura 42:11]

He has many Attributes, but there is none Like Him in sharing these attributes.

So when He is the Seer, Hearer, Knower, Powerful etc. - He is in reality all of these, however - there is none like Him in these attributes in any way. We do not know the 'howness' of these Attributes, but we accept them as they are. We cannot comprehend God, so we accept them without knowing the details.

This is God's Perfection, a perfection which people throughout history have differed about. And this Qur'an was sent down to unite mankind on what they differed.

And Allah knows best.
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Eeman
07-06-2008, 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
Ok. I won't spam and I won't attack anyone.

Just a couple things i've noticed:

-Allah is omnipotent
-Allah declares than only Muslims may enter Jannah
-Allah created humanity
-The religion of Islam has not existed since the beginning of humanity
-Allah is omnipotent thus he surely realizes this and knowingly lets millions of creatures burn in Hell
-Thus the conclusion = Allah is sadistic

The next question is, why does Allah like Muslims more than others ?
He could have created a world only filled with Muslims constantly praising him if he wanted to. But if he couldn't he is not omnipotent. If he is not omnipotent then he could not have created an immense universe.
Allah swt is omnipotent without a doubt :thumbs_up

Allah swt declares that only muslims go to jannah?
No not muslims as in muslims by name but the true believers of His faith yes. Nowadays you have many people that claim to be muslims but are they really???

Allah swt not only created humanity but created EVERYTHING in His creation.

Allah swt's message has always been one. from Adam saw who was the first form of human that Allah swt created. hat a lot of people forget is that islam is merely a name given to Allah swt's final message to differentiate it from the other messages that He sent forth and were fabricated by none us but mankind themelves, so if you think about it adam was a muslim, so was abraham, and musa, and isa and mohammad (pbut) cos they were all trying to convey the SAME MESSAGE to mankind!!!!!!!!! islam the name was only given to Allah swt's religion to distinguish it from judaism and christianity.

Allah swt knows of our actions from the day we take our first breath to the day we take our last breath, but has placed upon us what is called FREE WILL!!! the path of right and the path of wrong!!!!!!!!!
and it is upto us His slaves what path we walk on thus this is what we will be held into account for!!!!!!!!


THEREFORE your conclusion is wrong and you need to turn to Allah and ask for forgiveness and repent, go literate yourself read the Qur'an and reflect upon its messageand ask sincerely Allah swt to guide your lost heart!!! When someone's heart is filled with filth and evil this is the result, instead of truning to Him to repent you refute His message and way of life cos of the love of this life and the love and lust for evil in your heart!

It's amazing how when a salve does nothing but wrongs himself over and over again, with no fear of the Almighty but out of His own evil an wickedness thn when calamity befalls him then He starts pointing their finger at Allah swt, with dumb excuses, when it clearly states in the Qur'an that no calamity would befall you other than what your own hands have earned, and
and in the case of the believers it is merely to test them.

You sound like a confused brother or sister i suggest you sit and reflect upon yourself and your own doings in your life, point the finger at yourself maybe things might start making sense to you!
Reply

Fishman
07-06-2008, 09:50 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
But humans have existed on Earth before religion. Which means that our ancestors are burning in hell for not believing in Allah, regardless of whether they were born thousands of years before him or not.
The True Religion has existed since since the first man in various forms. It may have even existed before this, but I'm not sure.
:w:
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 09:51 PM
For One to be Perfect, they can not have an equal in any way. So those who claim that God is similar to His creation - they are contradicting this concept
So since he is the creator he has the right to let millions of lives suffer ? Then we should be comparing him to an eternal dictator.

Allah swt's message has always been one. from Adam saw who was the first form of human that Allah swt created.
So you believe that Allah created the Earth 6,000 years ago ? Or do you believe that he was the cause of the "Big Bang" and the resulting universe ?

THEREFORE your conclusion is wrong and you need to turn to Allah and ask for forgiveness and repent, go literate yourself read the Qur'an and reflect upon its messageand ask sincerely Allah swt to guide your lost heart!!! When someone's heart is filled with filth and evil this is the result, instead of truning to Him to repent you refute His message and way of life cos of the love of this life and the love and lust for evil in your heart!
Heart filled with evil ? What about a mind filled with knowledge ?

You sound like a confused brother or sister i suggest you sit and reflect upon yourself and your own doings in your life, point the finger at yourself maybe things might start making sense to you!
Sounds to me like you're scared of death, and your answer is to praise a God that may or may not exist.
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'Abd al-Baari
07-06-2008, 09:55 PM
Hey slipknot,

Try searching for some of your questions through the search facility. Many of your refutations have been answered already. :)

:peace:
Reply

Fishman
07-06-2008, 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
So since he is the creator he has the right to let millions of lives suffer ?
Yes. The same way that your boss has the right to fire you.


So you believe that Allah created the Earth 6,000 years ago ? Or do you believe that he was the cause of the "Big Bang" and the resulting universe ?
I don't think the earth was created 6000 years ago. We have scientific evidence about things before that, like ancient bone tools found on the bottom of the sea where there would have been land during the ice age.
I don't really know how this is relevant.


Sounds to me like you're scared of death, and your answer is to praise a God that may or may not exist.
If there is no Afterlife then there will be no answer to dread.
Threechars
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Pen Marks
07-06-2008, 10:00 PM
I don’t think this thread is getting anywhere...

PS. try reading the quran it'll answer all ur questions *don't waste ur time trying to debate us cuz anyone who's got the quran and sunnah is gona win*
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Nájlá
07-06-2008, 10:02 PM
spot on
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 10:05 PM
Hey slipknot,

Try searching for some of your questions through the search facility. Many of your refutations have been answered already

Alright so pretty much you believe religion has always been on Earth, some humans have chosen to disobey Allah and will suffer the consequences for it.

read the Qur'an and reflect upon its messageand ask sincerely Allah swt to guide your lost heart!!!
I agree with the messages of Christianity too, love thy neighbour, etc, but the question is, is it a holy book or a fantasy novel written thousands of years ago ?

Would the world be in chaos without God ? Is God the only hope for a world filled with misery, hunger and violence ? Is he a magical superman with the power to save humanity ? Is he a creation to soothe our minds from the harshness of reality ?

I could write a book myself with the answers to every imaginable question and pass it off as the work of a Holy Deity, and be worshipped by millions of people in the future.
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Eeman
07-06-2008, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
Alright so pretty much you believe religion has always been on Earth, some humans have chosen to disobey Allah and will suffer the consequences for it.



I agree with the messages of Christianity too, love thy neighbour, etc, but the question is, is it a holy book or a fantasy novel written thousands of years ago ?

Would the world be in chaos without God ? Is God the only hope for a world filled with misery, hunger and violence ? Is he a magical superman with the power to save humanity ? Is he a creation to soothe our minds from the harshness of reality ?

I could write a book myself with the answers to every imaginable question and pass it off as the work of a Holy Deity, and be worshipped by millions of people in the future.

Why dont you try...
infact Allah swt as challenged mankind and jinns to do so so go on bro give it a try.
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 10:10 PM
I don't think the earth was created 6000 years ago. We have scientific evidence about things before that, like ancient bone tools found on the bottom of the sea where there would have been land during the ice age.
I don't really know how this is relevant.
It's relevant in the sense that you believe that religion has always existed, but you believe the Earth is older than 6,000 years old ? The first human was then created by Allah millions of years ago ? Or did the first humans not have language, not know anything about "Allah" or "Islam" and are frying in hell right now as a consequence ?

PS. try reading the quran it'll answer all ur questions *don't waste ur time trying to debate us cuz anyone who's got the quran and sunnah is gona win
Other than quote passages from a book you have no way to debate with me. It's exactly the same thing as Christianity. I could write a book myself and have it answer every question about death,etc wouldn't matter if i'm telling the truth as long as I make some money !
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Uthman
07-06-2008, 10:11 PM
Hi Slipknot,

Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
I could write a book myself with the answers to every imaginable question and pass it off as the work of a Holy Deity, and be worshipped by millions of people in the future.
But would your book be as miraculously eloquent as the Qur'an? Would it be contain prophecies that would come to be fulfilled later on? Would it be free from scientific error, such that science would not contradict it even 1400 years after it is written?

Regards
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Abdul Fattah
07-06-2008, 10:11 PM
Slipknot, you aren't asking questions, so what's with the question marks behind all your sentences? If you genuinely want to learn, then ask questions rather then passing judgments. If you genuinely want to debate; then follow the rules of debate, meaning give your opponents the benefit of the doubt, construct arguments, don't pass baseless comments and so on. If you genuinely want to waste our time, then goodbye.
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 10:18 PM
But would your book be as miraculously eloquent as the Qur'an? Would it be contain prophecies that would come to be fulfilled later on? Would it be free from scientific error, such that science would not contradict it even 1400 years after it is written?
Eloquence is subjective. Add in some poetic language, morals and people will think it is amazing. Science can definitely contradict the Koran. Science can prove that Allah didn't create the first human for example.

Slipknot, you aren't asking questions, so what's with the question marks behind all your sentences? If you genuinely want to learn, then ask questions rather then passing judgments. If you genuinely want to debate; then follow the rules of debate, meaning give your opponents the benefit of the doubt, construct arguments, don't pass baseless comments and so on. If you genuinely want to waste our time, then goodbye.
I haven't seen you say anything to contradict my arguments. Don't have any insightful philosophy to prove me wrong ?
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Tornado
07-06-2008, 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
is it a holy book or a fantasy novel written thousands of years ago ?
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...atheist-4.html

I'd like to know and the discussion is in that thread.

Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
Science can prove that Allah didn't create the first human for example.
I don't think science can prove that. What if this god created humans through evolution? If you say that Adam and Eve are the very first ancestors and are in absolutely no way related to other creatures, then I'd have a problem.
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 10:37 PM
What if this god created humans through evolution?
That is a possibility. That an infinitely superior God programmed our bodies, DNA, immune systems, etc. Something had to be created at some point by something.

Thanks for the link anyways I was looking for some good debates
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snakelegs
07-06-2008, 10:43 PM
skipnot,
if i may ask, what are you doing here and what do you hope to gain?
it seems like you already know all the answers and your questions about islam are not asked in the manner of a person seeking knowledge, but rather a person wanted to mock.
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 11:01 PM
-i'm not prejudiced against Islam
-i'm not racist
-i'm not atheist(agnostic !)

I went to a high school where Muslim kids acted like they were oh-so much better than everyone, definitely the most stuck up group of people there. I'm not talking about 10 people, i'm talking about hundreds. The muslims i've met have all been extreme hypocrites, quick to judge and criticize any non-muslim. Quite a few are very racist and prejudiced too. With that said, I felt like coming on a popular Islamic forum to question their beliefs and share my opinions on religion.
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'Abd-al Latif
07-06-2008, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
.

Hahahahaha

So let me guess.. Allah creates humans in the first place and sends to hell those who have never heard of the existence of Allah ?
Is this admitting he wishes to punish those who do not submit to him ? Even if they are unaware of his existence ?
Why did he create them in the first place then ? To gain pleasure from their misery ?
Does that make Allah a favoritist ? a sadistic Creator ? a madosachist ?
Why would he feel the need to test his creations in the first place ? He is omnipotent so he must know the outcome already. If he created the universe why did he not create a utopia ? Surely he wants all those who oppose him to suffer on Earth and burn in hell.
The afterlife is limited to those born to parents of Muslim faith ?

I could think of a lot more when I have time
If Allah was to take all of the creation and lock them up in hell for all of eternity that would not be considered as injustice. We are His creation and He will do with us as He pleases.

The reason for people being thrown in hell fire is to show an example to those who disbelieve as well as believe in Him and to show to one and all of the consequences of who those who have encoured His wrath. The word of Allah will come true to those who chose not to believe in Him, while it will humble those who believe in Him, thus His wisdom is far beyong your limited views.

For an individual to refuse to submit to Allah is the same as a King who hires a slave, gives him food, clothes, shelter and money for his wellbeing but this servent goes out and gives credit and thanks to someone else. Allah is much Higher then the position of any king and He gives you much more then that so the ones who reject Him are the ungreatful and arragont ones who follow nothing but conjecture.

So you ask why would Allah test his creation? If you told me you were an engineer would you expect your employer to take your word for it? or would you show him your qualifications to prove that you are an engineer?

Similarly Allah tests us to see if we have sound heart and firm belief in Him and he does this by testing our faith. Claiming to believe in Allah is not enough, you have to prove it in the face of opposition and trial.

So don't talk about Allah without knowledge, because hellfire is made ready for the arragont ones who have neither knowledge nor understanding.
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Eeman
07-06-2008, 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
It's relevant in the sense that you believe that religion has always existed, but you believe the Earth is older than 6,000 years old ? The first human was then created by Allah millions of years ago ? Or did the first humans not have language, not know anything about "Allah" or "Islam" and are frying in hell right now as a consequence ?



Other than quote passages from a book you have no way to debate with me. It's exactly the same thing as Christianity. I could write a book myself and have it answer every question about death,etc wouldn't matter if i'm telling the truth as long as I make some money !
SO WHY DONT YOU WRITE A BOOK THEN!!!!
in the Qur'an Allah swt challenges mankind and the jinns to do so!
SO WHY DONT YOU!!!!
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 11:06 PM
So don't talk about Allah without knowledge, because hellfire is made ready for the arragont ones who have neither knowledge nor understanding.
So pretty much you defend Allah because you are afraid of his eternal wrath. Sounds like a great way to live to me.

For an individual to refuse to submit to Allah is the same as a King who hires a slave, gives him food, clothes, shelter and money for his wellbeing but this servent goes out and gives credit and thanks to someone else.
That's a decent argument but it's not like I chose to be born. Since he is a God why can't he just put his name in the sky if he wants credit so badly ?
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Eeman
07-06-2008, 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
-i'm not prejudiced against Islam
-i'm not racist
-i'm not atheist(agnostic !)

I went to a high school where Muslim kids acted like they were oh-so much better than everyone, definitely the most stuck up group of people there. I'm not talking about 10 people, i'm talking about hundreds. The muslims i've met have all been extreme hypocrites, quick to judge and criticize any non-muslim. Quite a few are very racist and prejudiced too. With that said, I felt like coming on a popular Islamic forum to question their beliefs and share my opinions on religion.
Dear brother in every race evey culture every religion you get that!!!
so for you to just pin point it to muslims being like that is wrong!
every race and religion has the good people and bad people.
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Eeman
07-06-2008, 11:09 PM
Furthermore... can you please start cracking on with this book of yours cos i'd be the 1st person to purchase and read it there you go you have a reader before the book has even been written.
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by Eeman
every race and religion has the good people and bad people.
I know. Im not a big fan of Christianity either.

Sure, i'll start the book off with a segment where the Creator appears to me in a vision and asks me to carry out his ambitions to the modern people ! Add in some parables, metaphors, similes, short stories, personal accounts, morals, ethics and i'll have quite a few followers
Reply

snakelegs
07-06-2008, 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
-i'm not prejudiced against Islam
-i'm not racist
-i'm not atheist(agnostic !)

I went to a high school where Muslim kids acted like they were oh-so much better than everyone, definitely the most stuck up group of people there. I'm not talking about 10 people, i'm talking about hundreds. The muslims i've met have all been extreme hypocrites, quick to judge and criticize any non-muslim. Quite a few are very racist and prejudiced too. With that said, I felt like coming on a popular Islamic forum to question their beliefs and share my opinions on religion.
thanks for answering.
you are basing your opinion about a religion and its follwers based on your experience with crappy muslims in school. this is known as prejudice.
i think you would gain from learning more about islam so you have come to a good place. learning is a good way to get rid of prejudice. some of the things you may learn may really surprise you.
and yet the tone of your questions does not suggest someone who wants to learn, but rather one who already has his mind made up and is more interested in mocking.
maybe you should question your own motives, and if you are sincerely seeking information, ask iin the discover islam section, or any of the islam sections and as long as you are respectful and not combatitive, you can find out what you want to know.
p.s. ain't nothin' bad about being an agnostic. i'm one and i'm not bad. ;D
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'Abd-al Latif
07-06-2008, 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
So pretty much you defend Allah because you are afraid of his eternal wrath. Sounds like a great way to live to me.
I fear the Creator, not His creation nor the likes of you.

That's a decent argument but it's not like I chose to be born. Since he is a God why can't he just put his name in the sky if he wants credit so badly ?
You didn't chose to be born nor will you chose when to die. So Who is then the Controller of your affairs? It is Allah. Submitting to Him will bring Allah no benefit whatsoever so that only means it Will bring you benefit because this short period you live in this world is only a testing ground.

The signs of Allah are all around in His creation as Allah says "Indeeded there are signs for men of understanding, those who contemplate standing, sitting, laying on their sides and they say "O our Lord, not in vain did You create any of this. Save us from the tourment of the Hell fire."
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suffiyan007
07-06-2008, 11:19 PM
u can't said, every religion is hypocrites and falsehood....cause mostly religions that believe in their own religions and faith teaches how to be a good person.Because this is some sensitive issues.u r disrespected people religion,really a controversy.only their beliefs and concepts are different from ISLAM....most people prayer to every religion most go to one GoD...~ maybe some unrecognized religion is falsehood...like Religion Ayah pin,al-hakam,and etc...!only the religion of speaking the TRUTH is ISLAM.
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 11:28 PM
some of the things you may learn may really surprise you.
and yet the tone of your questions does not suggest someone who wants to learn, but rather one who already has his mind made up and is more interested in mocking.
You're right I apologize for that. Let's just say i'm a pessimistic person who forgets his manners sometimes lol. There is still a lot I could learn about Islam.

You didn't chose to be born nor will you chose when to die. So Who is then the Controller of your affairs? It is Allah. Submitting to Him will bring Allah no benefit whatsoever so that only means it Will bring you benefit because this short period you live in this world is only a testing ground.

The signs of Allah are all around in His creation as Allah says "Indeeded there are signs for men of understanding, those who contemplate standing, sitting, laying on their sides and they say "O our Lord, not in vain did You create any of this. Save us from the tourment of the Hell fire."
Alright so pretty much you're having faith that the world was not created in vain. Like I said above i'm a pessimistic person(and skeptical) so I pretty much have the view that my life is completely pointless and insignificant. I'd like to be "saved" and all but i'm pretty much a sinner in many ways. Which means we both agree to disagree
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 11:30 PM
By the way to be honest I don't even like Slipknot at all, I just chose the name to get some cheap kicks out of being a troll. (Then I ended up feeling like debating a bit)
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snakelegs
07-06-2008, 11:38 PM
you can learn a lot on the internet - just as you can learn a lot here.
why waste time trolling?
you can also turn off the computer and go for a nice walk in the sun or moon, wherever you are. :)
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Eeman
07-06-2008, 11:39 PM
so your point is?
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Eeman
07-06-2008, 11:39 PM
brother no offence but YOUR LOST!!!!!!!
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'Abd-al Latif
07-06-2008, 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
You're right I apologize for that. Let's just say i'm a pessimistic person who forgets his manners sometimes lol. There is still a lot I could learn about Islam.

Alright so pretty much you're having faith that the world was not created in vain. Like I said above i'm a pessimistic person(and skeptical) so I pretty much have the view that my life is completely pointless and insignificant. I'd like to be "saved" and all but i'm pretty much a sinner in many ways. Which means we both agree to disagree
Allah knows that everyone including Muslims are going to sin, be it small or great. This doesn't mean you are hopeless because when on sins but then turns back to his Lord in repentance then he may be a better person then he was before.

Allah created everything so He knows that man is weak as Allah says in the Qur'an "Indeed man has been created weak" and the Only One far beyond any Imperfection and weakness is Allah. The question is not about sinning rather it is to turn to Him in repentance because none excepts repentance and forgives sins except Him.
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SlipknotGag79
07-06-2008, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
you can learn a lot on the internet - just as you can learn a lot here.
why waste time trolling?
you can also turn off the computer and go for a nice walk in the sun or moon, wherever you are. :)
It's raining outside lol but I get your point
It says a lot about myself when I need to argue with others to find satisfaction. A walk in the moonlight sounds nice though =)
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snakelegs
07-06-2008, 11:45 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
It's raining outside lol but I get your point
It says a lot about myself when I need to argue with others to find satisfaction. A walk in the moonlight sounds nice though =)
very true.
hmmm.....walk in the rain sounds good to me.
Reply

M..x
07-07-2008, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
-i'm not prejudiced against Islam
-i'm not racist
-i'm not atheist(agnostic !)

I went to a high school where Muslim kids acted like they were oh-so much better than everyone, definitely the most stuck up group of people there. I'm not talking about 10 people, i'm talking about hundreds. The muslims i've met have all been extreme hypocrites, quick to judge and criticize any non-muslim. Quite a few are very racist and prejudiced too. With that said, I felt like coming on a popular Islamic forum to question their beliefs and share my opinions on religion.
Its interesting, but tha characteristics you describe of 'stuck up group' of Muslims seem to actually define your own character. Your far too quick to judge a WHOLE race based on tha actions and characters of the minority. I would suggest you not base your thinking on the acts of the hunderds of Muslims [in your high school], but rather tha millions of Muslims worldwide. I don't actually quite understand what your trying to get at in this thread because it seems kind of pointless.. I hope you can navigate your way around the forum & find out what Islam is really about. I mean afterall your only used to the hipocrites & those who are quick to judge, so may be this will open your eyes a bit. =) Peace

P.S Top Stuff Bro SnakeLegs =)
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Abdul Fattah
07-08-2008, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by SlipknotGag79
I haven't seen you say anything to contradict my arguments. Don't have any insightful philosophy to prove me wrong ?
Oh quite the contrary, I have enough philosophical and logical arguments to defeat any argument you brought up, however for now I haven't brought them up because I suspected it wouldn't do any good. And my suspicions were later confirmed when you admitted your intentions to snakelegs. However since that now has changed, I'm ready for philosophy if you still have questions.
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