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Uthman
07-08-2008, 07:27 PM
C4 Mon 14 July 2008 at 8pm

The Qur’an has become the most ideologically influential text in the world, but what does it actually say? And how much do Muslims and non-Muslims understand its message and its history?




In this fascinating and challenging documentary, award-winning filmmaker Antony Thomas, investigates how a text that has inspired peace, tolerance and creativity down the ages can be used to justify violence and terrorism amongst a minority of Muslims.

The Qur’an
explores the history of Islam’s holiest book and asks what it says about issues such as women’s equality, mercy and punishment, war, peace and suicide bombing, and relations with other faiths.

Muslims believe the Qur’an to be the word of God, revealed to the Prophet Muhammad nearly 1,500 years ago. From women’s rights to freedom of speech, and from punishment to forgiveness, it affects every aspect of their lives. But they don’t all read it in the same way.

This documentary takes us to places where women may not vote or drive cars, and to countries where they lead political parties; mosques where devotees pray to saints, and others where this would be seen as idol worship; devotees who dance, sing and feel Allah in their hearts, and imams who insist on an austere version of Islam.

This powerful film meets a diverse range of people living according to their understanding of the Qur’an, from ayatollahs to peasant farmers, and from hardline fundamentalist imams to progressive Islamic thinkers. It asks how – if the Qur’an is the ultimate and changeless message of God – such differences are possible.

Source
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------
07-08-2008, 07:32 PM

:salamext:


Unfortunately, what it is with youngsters nowadays (even older people) is that they read the Qur'aan, even compete in who reads it most ,or who finishes it in Ramadan first, but they don't understand the meaning behind the words.


SubhaanAllaah look at the state of the Muslim Ummah today, May Allaah Guide us all. Ameen.

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Uthman
07-08-2008, 09:12 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by - Serene -
Unfortunately, what it is with youngsters nowadays (even older people) is that they read the Qur'aan, even compete in who reads it most ,or who finishes it in Ramadan first, but they don't understand the meaning behind the words.


SubhaanAllaah look at the state of the Muslim Ummah today, May Allaah Guide us all. Ameen.
Ameen. That's very true, Ukhti.

:w:
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Uthman
07-08-2008, 09:14 PM
:sl:

I've actually got a bad feeling about this particular documentary. Quite clearly, it intends to highlight the stark differences in interpretation of the Qur'an by different people. Obviously, it will fail to highlight the fact that there are only a few people who are qualified to interpret the Qur'an in the first place.

:w:
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Ali.
07-08-2008, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by - Serene -
:salamext:


Unfortunately, what it is with youngsters nowadays (even older people) is that they read the Qur'aan, even compete in who reads it most ,or who finishes it in Ramadan first, but they don't understand the meaning behind the words.


SubhaanAllaah look at the state of the Muslim Ummah today, May Allaah Guide us all. Ameen.
You really cannot judge the whole Ummah/youngsters on a few kid's you've seen down you're local Mosque you know...

On-Topic: Are they paying you for this, Bro' Osman :?


Jokes... Yeah insha'Allah I'll be able to watch this.
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TrueStranger
07-08-2008, 09:18 PM
:sl:

I wonder if it is only a documentary that aims to create more confusion and division in the Muslim Ummah. The whole moderates and extremists separation.




:w:
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Mysterious Uk
07-09-2008, 01:29 PM
Basically if anyone watches television and is interested there is going to be a documentary shown on C4 Mon 14 July 2008 at 8pm. It is called 'The Qur'an' and i think it is analysing the Qur'an to see how people might interpret it. So according to the channel 4 website it's goin 2 b looking at stuff like women’s equality, mercy and punishment, war, peace and suicide bombing, and relations with other faiths etc. It doesn't just look at the Qur'an but also people's views and understanding of the Qur'an.

If you want more info then u can go on the channel 4 website and click faith and belief. Anyhu sounds interesting so i thought i might like u guys know :)
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aamirsaab
07-09-2008, 01:35 PM
:sl:
I look forward to this one too.
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MuslimWays
07-10-2008, 09:06 AM
Should be interesting to see what they come up with, I bet theres a "Muslim" behind making this program.
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'Abd-al Latif
07-10-2008, 09:20 AM
The Qur’an

Channel 4 Mon 14 July 2008 at 8pm

The Qur’an has become the most ideologically influential text in the world, but what does it actually say? And how much do Muslims and non-Muslims understand its message and its history?

In this fascinating and challenging documentary, award-winning filmmaker Antony Thomas, investigates how a text that has inspired peace, tolerance and creativity down the ages can be used to justify violence and terrorism amongst a minority of Muslims.

The Qur’an explores the history of Islam’s holiest book and asks what it says about issues such as women’s equality, mercy and punishment, war, peace and suicide bombing, and relations with other faiths
.
Muslims believe the Qur’an to be the word of God, revealed to the Prophet Muhammad nearly 1,500 years ago. From women’s rights to freedom of speech, and from punishment to forgiveness, it affects every aspect of their lives. But they don’t all read it in the same way.

This documentary takes us to places where women may not vote or drive cars, and to countries where they lead political parties; mosques where devotees pray to saints, and others where this would be seen as idol worship; devotees who dance, sing and feel Allah in their hearts, and imams who insist on an austere version of Islam.

This powerful film meets a diverse range of people living according to their understanding of the Qur’an, from ayatollahs to peasant farmers, and from hardline fundamentalist imams to progressive Islamic thinkers. It asks how
– if the Qur’an is the ultimate and changeless message of God – such differences are possible.


http://www.channel4.com/culture/micr...tes/quran.html
Reply

aamirsaab
07-10-2008, 10:02 AM
:sl:
If anyone saw the advert for it on c4, you may have noticed that Ajmal, one of the imaams from make me a muslim is on it (he's being interviewed). Mashallah, that guy is a good representative of muslims - hopefully the tone shown in that little segment will be the tone of the program as a whole.

Fingers crossed about this one - I really don't know what to expect; it could either be detrimental to muslims and Islam or be beneficial to muslims, Islam and non-muslims. I do hope it is the latter!
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'Abd-al Latif
07-10-2008, 10:10 AM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Fingers crossed about this one - I really don't know what to expect; it could either be detrimental to muslims and Islam or be beneficial to muslims, Islam and non-muslims. I do hope it is the latter!
:w:

If you don't mind me asking what does crossing fingers represent?
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aamirsaab
07-10-2008, 10:32 AM
:sl:
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
:w:

If you don't mind me asking what does crossing fingers represent?
Hoping for the best.
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MuslimWays
07-12-2008, 09:06 PM
Insha'Allah if it's good, many will be guided to the correct path.
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Uthman
07-12-2008, 10:18 PM
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...lim-world.html
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Uthman
07-14-2008, 01:55 PM
Y'all don't forget to watch it tonight!
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ayan333
07-14-2008, 02:16 PM
:sl:

is this only for those who live in the UK...i live in the u.s..will i be able to watch it?


:w:
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Uthman
07-14-2008, 03:57 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by ayan333
is this only for those who live in the UK...i live in the u.s..will i be able to watch it?
It usually becomes available online after the programme has aired. I will post up a link tomorrow Inshaa'Allah.

:w:
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Ali.
07-14-2008, 04:04 PM
^ Oh, it appears online? Good, I think I'll only be able to catch 30mins max. tonight :(.
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Al-Hanbali
07-14-2008, 08:02 PM
:salamext:

^Its still on ...
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chacha_jalebi
07-14-2008, 08:04 PM
put on ch4 plus 1 (aa the wonders of technolegy) alpha dudette, it jus started

was it my ears or did he say shiasm is not in the quraan! brap brap *gets excited*:D
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chacha_jalebi
07-14-2008, 08:10 PM
^ watch it online, you can watch ch4 plus 1 online!!!

bless the man he proper gunnin shias lol *gets popcorn*
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- Qatada -
07-14-2008, 08:13 PM
:salamext:


this program is poop :) trust me. its just opening the doorway to promote 'modernism' and to turn away from the sunnah, that's quite clear from the start when a dude said the qur'an doesn't need hadith.

i say dont watch it, only the first 10mins were good.
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chacha_jalebi
07-14-2008, 08:15 PM
why should i help you hah

try google.com:p

but because im nice :D you download this thin called zatto and that has all the tv channels! so now you can use your tv to jus play the good old ps3 or in your case atari 1934
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Uthman
07-14-2008, 08:38 PM
What. Utter. Tosh.

I want my two hours back.
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M..x
07-14-2008, 09:15 PM
Chacha Janaabs..
Likes I really dun't likes yo comments bouh Shi'as, Like even though theres HUGE difference between the two sects, theres no need for stuff like that you gets me? & Besides, this site aims to promote unity not more conflict =) No offence
& Like its irrelevant, do yo job man, Eveh ;)
So what ya'll think? Me thinks it was top stuff, Opened my eyes abit!!
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-14-2008, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude™
Did anybody watch this?

I didn't... but, somebody just told me it was quite good?
it claimed a german knew the quran better then millions of scholars.




lol



just lol
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M..x
07-14-2008, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
it claimed a german knew the quran better then millions of scholars.




lol



just lol
I was like LOL @ that aswell, Buh then it showed tha opposing view so I was like okies Whatever like lol...
Hmmm
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Uthman
07-14-2008, 09:25 PM
There could have been more effort to show some 'moderate' (hate that word) responses to the distorted interpretations of the Qur'an.

Pfft.
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M..x
07-14-2008, 09:28 PM
Hate tha wurd? Why use it..? Hehe
Yup Agreed... I was bare shocked with that sister's comments of hijaab not being compulsory, especially after reading so man interpretations of the Quran & after reading it several times.. =O
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Al-Zaara
07-14-2008, 09:34 PM
I'm glad I haven't wasted any minutes or hours.

Awaited for the comments from others and voilà... Smart plan, innit. :shade:
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Uthman
07-14-2008, 09:49 PM
You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Al-Zaara again.
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Al-Zaara
07-14-2008, 09:51 PM
You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Osman again.
That's what it said a minute ago. Not anymore! :D

By the way, go and comment on my latest World Affairs' thread. Go on.
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Brother_Mujahid
07-14-2008, 09:58 PM
it seemed to get one ayah and then look at extreme views or views that the west will look with much controversy.

its like a nice beautiful painting is done and put on display and then vandalised and deformed.
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Re.TiReD
07-14-2008, 09:59 PM
:salamext:

My Brothers were watching 'banged up' so I didnt watch it. Looks like I missed a load of fish though anyway.

:wasalamex
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M..x
07-14-2008, 10:05 PM
^ Thas a load of rubbish like... Bare Jowkes though one must say. =) I actually faut tha programme was pretty good, Like it showed differing views, obviously some that I did NOT agree too, but nevertheless provided an insight into tha thinking processes of the minority I daresay? =) I was getting bare happy when they where biggin' up Islam though Hehe Peaceeee
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Cabdullahi
07-14-2008, 10:29 PM
I think for those who have watched it, don't worry its not like we have committed a sin

It was another Oscar worthy documentation just for the fact that it implement's a modern look that the west wants us Muslims to adhere to,where there's no modesty,no self control and many other things, we as Muslims should not get bullied into becoming mild and undignified and i will conclude by saying everybody stick to the quran ,sunnah and spread islam and give knowledge for those who are deprived of it
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aamirsaab
07-15-2008, 09:19 AM
:sl:

I actually liked the program. Though, I do think they should have clarified the alleged contradictions, shown less of the shia/suffi bakwas and instead interviewed some UK/US/Western muslims.

Overall though, I was happy to see Ajmal Masroor being his usual enthusiastic self over Islam. Always pleasure to see :)
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Uthman
07-15-2008, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Overall though, I was happy to see Ajmal Masroor being his usual enthusiastic self over Islam. Always pleasure to see :)
Ajmal Masroor was one person I would have liked to see a lot more of actually. :)
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M..x
07-15-2008, 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:

I actually liked the program. Though, I do think they should have clarified the alleged contradictions, shown less of the shown less of the shia/suffi bakwas instead interviewed some UK/US/Western muslims.

Overall though, I was happy to see Ajmal Masroor being his usual enthusiastic self over Islam. Always pleasure to see :)
Yehyeh =)
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------
07-15-2008, 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by Ali.
You really cannot judge the whole Ummah/youngsters on a few kid's you've seen down you're local Mosque you know...

On-Topic: Are they paying you for this, Bro' Osman :?


Jokes... Yeah insha'Allah I'll be able to watch this.
i aint judging no one am just poiting out the facts yeh

sheesh
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Sahabiyaat
07-15-2008, 01:59 PM
:sl:

lol
wat did i say last week b4 the programme even cme on!
that the 'it shudnt happen to a muslim' documentary was too gud to be true so they needed to balance out the opinions and thats just wat theyve done in this documentary. :thumbs_do
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Uthman
07-15-2008, 02:06 PM
Link to watch it online:

http://www.channel4.com/video/the-quran/catchup.html
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AvarAllahNoor
07-15-2008, 02:13 PM
It was intresting to learn about the Imams and Shia ways.

Also, that woman who was showing that women are equal. Good work. & All religions should be respected.
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AvarAllahNoor
07-15-2008, 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:

I actually liked the program. Though, I do think they should have clarified the alleged contradictions, shown less of the shia/suffi bakwas and instead interviewed some UK/US/Western muslims.

Overall though, I was happy to see Ajmal Masroor being his usual enthusiastic self over Islam. Always pleasure to see :)
That was a bit odd. I'd topple over spinning around like that!
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aamirsaab
07-15-2008, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
It was intresting to learn about the Imams and Shia ways.

Also, that woman who was showing that women are equal. Good work. & All religions should be respected.
That's good to hear.

I'd like to know what did the other non-muslims think of this program? Did you learn anything from it? Did it better your understanding of Islam etc ?

I mean, hopefully it had a positive influence on the non-muslim community. If not, I'll just have to publish a book on Islam and psychology.
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Ali.
07-15-2008, 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
^ watch it online, you can watch ch4 plus 1 online!!!

bless the man he proper gunnin shias lol *gets popcorn*
Shia's are still Muslim, man...

What if a Shia read that comment of yours and got deeply offended? You can't go around saying stuff like that. What Muslim Gyal said is right:

Originally Posted by x MuslimGyal x
Chacha Janaabs..
Likes I really dun't likes yo comments bouh Shi'as, Like even though theres HUGE difference between the two sects, theres no need for stuff like that you gets me? & Besides, this site aims to promote unity not more conflict =) No offence
& Like its irrelevant, do yo job man, Eveh ;)



Originally Posted by Osman
There could have been more effort to show some 'moderate' (hate that word) responses to the distorted interpretations of the Qur'an.

Pfft.
Definitely. I thought the program was good. That German guy's 'theories' were quite... strange, but interesting, I have to say. But what the Londoner said was right: We have to read the Qur'an the way the Arabs understood it.
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AvarAllahNoor
07-16-2008, 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
That's good to hear.

I'd like to know what did the other non-muslims think of this program? Did you learn anything from it? Did it better your understanding of Islam etc ?

.
Well, nothing I didn't already know. It was good nevertheless. Was nice to see no ranting of 'Imams' saying to kill the kafirs who don't submit to Islam, which is what we usually see on TV! - The Houri bit was interesting too. Would other Muslims expand on that, or would they not want to hear anything other than what it's states in the Quran already?
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جوري
07-16-2008, 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by - Qatada -
:salamext:


this program is poop :) trust me. its just opening the doorway to promote 'modernism' and to turn away from the sunnah, that's quite clear from the start when a dude said the qur'an doesn't need hadith.

i say dont watch it, only the first 10mins were good.
This was a plan since 98 to separate Quran from Sunnah, even prior to the whole 911 fiasco.. plus purchase several chanels in the Arabic world, where they spew constant deviant ideology, the fortunate thing is one of the other attempts was also to pass around re-written qurans, with verses added or taken away, making divorce illegal for instance amongst other things but people recite the Quran all the time and can tell it has been tampered with.. You know Arabs lap up anything western because they feel so inferior, as prophet SAW stated, if they fall into a hole for a dab we'll follow them into it, and all you really need to do is turn on your Arabic chanel to see just the extent.. we are people blessed with Islam, once we give it up, we are reduced to vile reproduction of the west but not even a high fidelity copy and they still won't accept us..
we had what was great and we threw it away, thinking secular is better.. I ask then, is secular better?

the whole Quran only thing is popular indeed, but it is just another faction as we were promised tribulations.. those who desire to walk aright still can though wal7mdlilah Al Quran and sunnah are perfectly preserved for those who seek truth...

:w:
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truemuslim
07-16-2008, 01:23 AM
Originally Posted by - Serene -
:salamext:


Unfortunately, what it is with youngsters nowadays (even older people) is that they read the Qur'aan, even compete in who reads it most ,or who finishes it in Ramadan first, but they don't understand the meaning behind the words.


SubhaanAllaah look at the state of the Muslim Ummah today, May Allaah Guide us all. Ameen.
Yah sis, my cousins and one of my young aunts who are hafith know the whole quran (obviously) and they hafiz many other girls (including me) over the phone, but then they r totally unreligious and they got no idea what the quran says. they only memorize the words. but dont know NO meaning. :thumbs_do

Ameen to ur dua sis.

Subhanallah how non muslims are more into tafseer al quran than the hufath themselves imsad
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aamirsaab
07-16-2008, 12:13 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
....Would other Muslims expand on that, or would they not want to hear anything other than what it's states in the Quran already?
Not sure what you mean. I haven't read that passage in the english translation just yet (I'm about 20% through reading engl. translation from beginning to end right now) so cannot comment much than what was already stated in the program. There's most likely a thread on this very topic (houri) already in existence. If not, I'll make one after I've finished my reading.
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czgibson
07-16-2008, 12:15 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by aamirsaab

I'd like to know what did the other non-muslims think of this program? Did you learn anything from it? Did it better your understanding of Islam etc ?
I only saw the last half of it, but I'll now be able to catch up thanks to the link that has kindly been provided.

What I saw seemed balanced and fair, and I think those who condemn the programme out of hand have a little more thinking to do. The central point is one that we have all known for a long time - there are many possible interpretations of the Qur'an. Who is authorised to give them depends largely on what country you live in, as well as other factors.

Something that always mystifies me is when people say things like: "The Qur'an is quite clear on the matter." In fact, as this programme showed, the Qur'an is spectacularly unclear on many different matters - hence the widely differing interpretations that, whether we like it or not, we're all having to live with at the moment.

The programme also mentioned the Saudi insertion of phrases like "such as the Jews" and "tanks and artillery" - surely one of the most horrifically unhelpful moves in world history. If you had to cause the greatest amount of suffering with the fewest words, could you do it any more efficiently than this?

Edit: Something weird I noticed: several times during the film, Muslims were shown mentioning Muhammad, but not saying peace be upon him. Should we read anything into that?

Peace
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aamirsaab
07-16-2008, 12:21 PM
:sl: and greetings

Originally Posted by czgibson
....
Something that always mystifies me is when people say things like: "The Qur'an is quite clear on the matter." In fact, as this programme showed, the Qur'an is spectacularly unclear on many different matters - hence the widely differing interpretations that, whether we like it or not, we're all having to live with at the moment.
Fair point to make.

The programme also mentioned the Saudi insertion of phrases like "such as the Jews" and "tanks and artillery" - surely one of the most horrifically unhelpful moves in world history. If you had to cause the greatest amount of suffering with the fewest words, could you do it any more efficiently than this?

Peace
Unfortunately, Saudi seems to think that because it is regarded as the holy place for muslims that it can do what it pleases with the Quran. This is not the first time saudi's done something really stupid though (there's a big list for that!). I was pleased to see that the program did raise the issue of saudi not portraying an accurate representation of Islam.

From this thread, I'm glad that the program had a somewhat positive impact on the non-muslims who watched it.
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AvarAllahNoor
07-16-2008, 03:34 PM
Amirsahib, I meant the bit where they state teh german chap saidthe Houri (70 virgisn) actually means there will be grapes not virgins?

As for the Sunnah and Haith, if the Sunnah is the word of Allah, and Mohammed Sahib didn't state Allah said to add his Hadiths to the Quran, why were they? Do you have an authoirty in Islam that decides such things?
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Uthman
07-16-2008, 05:14 PM
Hello Avar, :)

Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
As for the Sunnah and Haith, if the Sunnah is the word of Allah, and Mohammed Sahib didn't state Allah said to add his Hadiths to the Quran, why were they? Do you have an authoirty in Islam that decides such things?
Who said that the Sunnah is the word of Allah? The sunnah is the way of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
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AvarAllahNoor
07-16-2008, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
Hello Avar, :)



Who said that the Sunnah is the word of Allah? The sunnah is the way of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
So I've got it mixed up? The Hadith is the Word of Allah and Sunnah are the ways of Mohammed? OK, back to my oringinal question please? :smile:
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Ali.
07-16-2008, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
So I've got it mixed up? The Hadith is the Word of Allah and Sunnah are the ways of Mohammed? OK, back to my oringinal question please? :smile:
No, man. The hadith is the collection of the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Hadith originally means 'conversation', and Sunnah, as you said, is the way the Prophet (PBUH) lived his life.

The word of Allah is the Qur'an.
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AvarAllahNoor
07-16-2008, 09:10 PM
OK!

That's cleared up, so why are the Sunnahs added to the Hadiths, years after the Sunnahs were compiled? Not causing trouble, just wondering as they said the same in the TV Show. Is it because they don't see any difference between the two?
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Ali.
07-16-2008, 09:14 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
OK!

That's cleared up, so why are the Sunnahs added to the Hadiths, years after the Sunnahs were compiled? Not causing trouble, just wondering as they said the same in the TV Show. Is it because they don't see any difference between the two?
Don't worry, it's a good question.

Well, some people believe the hadiths were written at the time of the Prophet [pbuh], and these people accept the hadiths. Whereas other people believe they were written a while after the Prophet [pbuh] died. There is no solid evidence as to when the hadiths were actually written, although I'm quite certain there is evidence here and there that people tend to take into account :).
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AvarAllahNoor
07-16-2008, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Ali.
Don't worry, it's a good question.

Well, some people believe the hadiths were written at the time of the Prophet [pbuh], and these people accept the hadiths. Whereas other people believe they were written a while after the Prophet [pbuh] died. There is no solid evidence as to when the hadiths were actually written, although I'm quite certain there is evidence here and there that people tend to take into account :).
Ah, well the makes sense. What about the Imams, was there no mention by them of the aboceof how it was?
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Ali.
07-16-2008, 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Ah, well the makes sense. What about the Imams, was there no mention by them of the aboceof how it was?
In the documentary? No, I don't think so.
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Fishman
07-16-2008, 09:57 PM
:sl:
The documentary was balanced, which was a good thing, but they only featured extreme people. Its like putting a battleship and a small hill on a scales, and then going 'ooh, look! Its very balanced!'

In one extreme they had that ranting Egpytian guy who said that female circumcision is Sunnah, and that the reason why there is promiscuity in the west is because women are not circumcised. And in the other hand there was that woman who decides that she has the qualifications to interpret the Quran herself and decide that hijab is not part of Islam, and the German guy who wrote what seems to be an Islamic version of The Da Vinci Code.
:w:
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AvarAllahNoor
07-16-2008, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by Ali.
In the documentary? No, I don't think so.
No, I mean did the Imams after Mohammed not say if his sayings were in the Quran in his time period? or did the Quran not be compiled whilst they were not alive either?
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Ali.
07-17-2008, 03:07 PM
Your confusing me.

Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
if his sayings were in the Quran[/B]
Muhammad [pbuh]'s sayings aren't recorded in the Qur'an, but a separate book written by humans called the book of hadiths, or hadiths of the Prophet [pbuh] etc etc.

Basically, it's been a long time since the Prophet [pbuh]'s time, and people are always changing history. Nobody knows for sure when his sayings were written, as stated above.
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Eeman
07-20-2008, 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:


Hoping for the best.
isnt that superstition?
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aamirsaab
07-21-2008, 08:32 AM
:sl:
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
[B]Amirsahib, I meant the bit where they state teh german chap saidthe Houri (70 virgisn) actually means there will be grapes not virgins?
...
I have three opinions:
1) those verses on paradise are metaphorical (I'll believe it when I see it kind of deal) So it doesn't matter what it says really.

2) That the ayats are literal but take the houri connotation and not the grapes. Basically, I agree with Ajmal's (the enthusiastic imaam from london) position: those ayats had to have been understood by arabic speakers, so even if it was originally in syriac then the arabic speakers had to have understood it and put it into arabic

3) From what I remember, the German dude actually was altering the ayats i.e. putting the dots on places that didn't have a dot. In other words, he's out and right changing the ayats!

In any case, from what we saw of his findings none of it actually changed the core essence of the Qur'an - only minor details such as houri into grape and the Mary ayat. It's essentially a translation argument; it will say slightly different things in each translation and since he chose to interpret those verses into syriac (as opposed to arabic) and then translate it into English, of course there will be differences. Overall though, it's nothing too big; the core of Islam is still there and I believe a lot of those verses he re-translated were metaphorical anyway :p.

Strangely, some guy on a facebook discussion tried to use that german dude's work to dispute Islam a day before The Qur'an program actually came on tv -so I was very eager to listen to his side of the story when he came on the program. To my surprise, we were given nothing to contradict Islam's teachins. LOL!

Originally Posted by Eeman
isnt that superstition?
It's a figure of speech, sis.
Reply

BlackMamba
07-21-2008, 09:10 AM
Originally Posted by truemuslim
Yah sis, my cousins and one of my young aunts who are hafith know the whole quran (obviously) and they hafiz many other girls (including me) over the phone, but then they r totally unreligious and they got no idea what the quran says. they only memorize the words. but dont know NO meaning. :thumbs_do

Ameen to ur dua sis.

Subhanallah how non muslims are more into tafseer al quran than the hufath themselves imsad
Hold on, what do your hafiz cousins do?
Reply

Malaikah
07-21-2008, 09:31 AM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Amirsahib, I meant the bit where they state teh german chap saidthe Houri (70 virgisn) actually means there will be grapes not virgins?
The Quran says that "We shall marry them to Houris[] (female fair ones) with wide, lovely eyes." [Chapter 44 verse 54]

Please tell me how someone can marry a grape?! It's so obvious the word doesn't mean grape!!!!!!!
Reply

truemuslim
07-21-2008, 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by Shakoor15
Hold on, what do your hafiz cousins do?
What do ya mean? You mean the unreligous part? If so, well they listen to music, told me its not haram, they smoke the sheesha, told me its not haram, they never lower their gaze, told me its not haram, they dance like crazy, told me to do it (psh yah right) , they memorize the entire quran but only know it like music, they not knowing the meaning of it, thats why when they teach me, i gotta check out the tafseer on my ipod. :D
Reply

Simply_Logical
07-21-2008, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
The Quran says that "We shall marry them to Houris[] (female fair ones) with wide, lovely eyes." [Chapter 44 verse 54]

Please tell me how someone can marry a grape?! It's so obvious the word doesn't mean grape!!!!!!!
agreed! :D
Reply

BlackMamba
07-21-2008, 07:21 PM
Lol ya maybe they became hafiz at a young age and against their own will, but they can still take 10 family members to jannah as long as they till know quran
Reply

truemuslim
07-21-2008, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Shakoor15
Lol ya maybe they became hafiz at a young age and against their own will, but they can still take 10 family members to jannah as long as they till know quran
oh no no see one of them memorized at like 20, another just memorize a week ago she like 17 and another like 18 or something. they not too young.
Mashallah i never knew that. kwlll tank u :statisfie
Reply

Uthman
07-31-2008, 11:29 AM
A mixed up view of Islam

Shia Muslims were seriously misrepresented in a documentary about the Qur'an. Channel 4 must now right the balance.

Yesterday's letter from leading British Shia Muslims to Channel 4 is a significant example of Muslims doing what they are often accused of not doing – making effective use of complaints procedures available to them when the media is seen to attack their religious beliefs.

The Channel 4 documentary, The Qur'an, was indeed frustrating to watch for anyone with even a general knowledge of Islam.

Shia Muslims were rightly annoyed, not because of sensationalist portrait of their beliefs, but because their faith was straightforwardly misrepresented. Biased judgments were made about supposedly correct and incorrect interpretations and understandings of the Qur'an and, by extension, belief in Islam.

The supreme irony, which the signatories of the letter, and any reasonably intelligent individual can discern, is the connection that was made between Shia Islam and the legitimisation of violent extremism. Yet the Shia reality tells a fundamentally different story – Shia Muslims are more often than not victims of terrorism and extremism and Shia theology is opposed to extreme forms of *******sm, whilst sharing many similarities, at both cultural as well as religious level, with Sunnism.

To try and tar the Shia with the same brush as some extreme *******s is a serious cause for concern, not only because Shias are targeted by extremists in countries like Afghanistan and Iraq, but also because such accusations could potentially lead to attacks against them here.

Indeed, scouring through various blogs, comments such as the following, on the MPAC website, illustrate my point. Henry says:
I would imagine Tehran and Qom would be unhappy with the programme's correct depiction of quasi-pseudo Shiite Islam, but then they would be. A few majestic moments of film was sufficient enough to demolish the Shiite argument brick-by-brick.
While Jennifer says:
... it did increase my knowledge of Shia perspectives (which seemed un-Islamic to me)
And Shan says:
As for shias i respect them in the same way as hindus-christians and jews, the issue is the others do not pretend to be muslims, whereas the shias pretend to be muslims
Such reactions show that the film did not achieve its goal, which was to clarify issues of interpretation of the Qur'an. They support the view that the filmmaker might have been manipulated in favour of one particular interpretation.

The film presented a very confused – and confusing – thesis about interpretation and legitimacy and added nothing qualitative to discussions about the Qur'an. There was little or no mention of the common things that bind all Muslims, regardless of school of thought. Moreover, the allegation that the Shia accuse others of tahrif (falsification of the Qur'an) is view harboured by only a handful of people from any school of thought, yet is repeated in the documentary as fact. Today, any talk of a falsified Qur'an is as irrelevant as the argument in Christendom that Protestants are heretics by Catholic standards or vice versa.

Channel 4's response thus far has been woefully inadequate and has not provided any clear answer to the questions raised by the Shia representatives in the letter. To argue that "the film was critically acclaimed and generated a positive response" is mere defensive spin.

Channel 4 must not only hold its hands up and admit it has gone wrong with this one but it should try to live up to the principles enshrined in its own public service remit, namely to produce "high quality and diverse programming" which "appeals to the tastes and interests of a culturally diverse society". It should do this by commissioning a documentary about the schools of thought in Islam.

Source
Reply

aamirsaab
07-31-2008, 11:38 AM
:sl:
The reason why they were misintrepreted was because that documentary was juggling all things islamic. So when it came to the (arguably, large) bit about the shias, it could only show the amount it did. Think of it this way; say you advertise yourself as a pro juggler and that your act will show you juggle every object (on this planet!); when it comes to it, you'll catch most but you're bound to miss a few. That's exactly what happened with the documentary; too many things were being juggled (because they were trying to show EVERYTHING about Islam in a 2 hour program in order to make it a fair view overall). Unfortunately, it backfired in several cases.

Oh well.
Reply

Uthman
08-05-2008, 12:01 PM
There is a documentary airing on National Geographic tonight called Inside the Koran. It might be the same one. I don't think we get that channel in the UK though.

Where do people get that channel? Is it in the US?
Reply

Uthman
08-05-2008, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
There is a documentary airing on National Geographic tonight called Inside the Koran. It might be the same one. I don't think we get that channel in the UK though.

Where do people get that channel? Is it in the US?
Bump. Anybody got any info on this?
Reply

BlackMamba
08-05-2008, 11:15 PM
Ya I just checked and its on Natl Geographic channel like you said, that's if you have DishNetwork then its channel 186. I am recording it just in case I'm not in at 6. Thanks for telling about it because I probably would have missed it otherwise, its airing about 1hr45min from now.
Reply

Uthman
08-06-2008, 07:26 AM
Did you catch it then akhee?
Reply

BlackMamba
08-06-2008, 07:57 AM
Ya I watched it, I don't think it was good at all. They had a few good people talk but other than that it was pretty bad and I was real pissed off while watching it. Especially towards the end when they started showing the Germans, they.started suggestng that the Quran is not in it's original state and then saying that the dots of the letters are wrong and just a bunch of BS.

And just seeing the Sufis and Shias made me mad too, do Shias really do that much shirk? Cuz if they do them I now understand why some call them non-muslims. But I was shocked to see some of the people that were talking on the show , ajmal masoor was good and tariq Ramadan also, but like the Germans were just awful. And they tried to fit WAY to much stuff in to the program, they never talked about one issue thoroughly enough.
Reply

Uthman
08-06-2008, 09:30 AM
Ahh...then they aired the same programme as they did here. Just a different name.

Actually, the Shias were misrepresented in the programme. See my post here.
Reply

Uthman
03-24-2009, 05:24 PM
Ofcom clears Channel 4 Qur'an documentary

A controversial Channel 4 documentary on the Qur'an, which led Shia Muslim scholars to demand an apology and a new programme about their faith, has been cleared by media regulator Ofcom of misleading viewers or inspiring violence between religious groups.

Ofcom's 18-page adjudication effectively clears Channel 4 of any wrongdoing in airing documentary The Qur'an. The documentary, by film-maker Antony Thomas, was broadcast last summer to kick-off a week of coverage on Islam and led to vociferous complaints from the Shia community.

The regulator received 21 complaints from individuals about the documentary and a detailed submission from 12 organisations representing Shia Islam in the UK.

Complainants argued that the documentary portrayed Shia Islam in a "negative, unbalanced and irresponsible light, including misrepresenting and inaccurate facts".

The media regulator collated an extensive list of specific complaints about claims made in the documentary - including that Shia Islam is contrary to the Qur'an, that Shias believe the Qur'an to be falsified, that Shia Islam was equated with "extreme Iranian political beliefs", and that the programme risked increasing tensions in the Muslim community.

In its defence, Channel 4 said that the documentary aimed to explore what the Qu'ran actually says about issues such as crime and punishment, tolerance, the role of women and the different interpretations of the text.

"The programme did not set out to take the impossible leap of determining which interpretation is correct," the broadcaster added. "Nor did the programme seek to invalidate or undermine any religious beliefs and cultural practices which arise in connection to the Qur'an."

In its ruling, Ofcom noted that the programme received a "broadly positive response" from Muslims, although the regulator noted that some concerns had been raised by the Shia community.

"As a general principle any programme dealing with a sensitive subject, such as a particular group or people's religious beliefs, is entitled to broadcast content that may be uncomfortable for that community provided the broadcaster complies with the code," the regulator said.

Ofcom pointed out that it could not consider complaints of impartiality against the documentary as it can only rule on cases when a broadcast is either a news programme or a show dealing with a matter of political or industrial controversy, or a matter relating to current public policy.

The media regulator also said that under UK media legislation it could not regulate "due accuracy" in shows outside news broadcasts.

"Ofcom is not a fact-finding tribunal. Its remit therefore does not include adjudicating on debates over Islamic theology," the regulator said. "Whether a programme is 'materially' misleading depends on a number of factors such as context, the editorial approach taken in the programme and above all what the potential effect could be in terms of harm or offence."

The regulator added that the tone of the show was "measured and considered" and that it pointed out that the Qur'an had brought comfort and peace to millions.

"In conclusion Ofcom considers that this programme dealt with the subject of Shia belief and practices in a responsible and fair manner. The programme did not materially mislead the audience concerning the subject of Shia Islam, nor could it be argued likely to inspire violence against Shias," the regulator said.

"Furthermore Channel 4 exercised a proper degree of responsibility when making the programme and did not subject Shia Islam to abusive treatment."

Ofcom's latest rulings on broadcasting complaints also cleared ITV of the embarrassing gaffe that saw viewers of last month's FA Cup fourth round replay between Everton and Liverpool miss the match-winning goal because of an ad break accidentally being aired during play.

The regulator received 201 complaints about the ITV gaffe, which saw viewers in the south of England miss the goal, but said today that it would not be taking any action against the broadcaster because of its swift action in apologising on air and instigating an overhaul of operating procedures to prevent any recurrence.

"I am pleased that Ofcom has endorsed the views of TV critics who described The Qur'an as 'scrupulously fair-minded', 'exhaustively researched' and 'an exemplary piece of programming making'," said Thomas. "I am grateful that this ruling, by the independent regulatory body responsible for broadcasting, completely dismisses the unfounded allegations against Channel 4's The Qur'an."

Aaqil Ahmed, the commissioning editor for religion and multi-cultural at Channel 4, said he now hoped that the documentary could now be remembered as "a truly original piece of landmark television". "Any film made on the subject will have a remarkable benchmark," he added.

• To contact the MediaGuardian news desk email editor@mediaguardian.co.uk or phone 020 3353 3857. For all other inquiries please call the main Guardian switchboard on 020 3353 2000.

Source
Reply

Banu_Hashim
03-24-2009, 05:43 PM
I didn't watch this. But by the sounds of it, the Qur'an was not represented well?

Just as a reminder:

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Unde...he%20Quran.pdf
Reply

Uthman
03-24-2009, 11:02 PM
Hey aamirsaab! Turns out my driving instructor is good friends with Ajmal Masroor because they are both from the same area in Bangladesh. Talks to him often as well. Small world, eh?
Reply

Uthman
03-26-2009, 06:21 PM
Antony Thomas: The Ofcom ruling on my documentary, The Qur'an, is a vindincation of our careful research and balanced approach
Reply

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