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truemuslim
07-12-2008, 02:19 AM
:sl:

:-[


Ok well ...a quick question (another...quick question) for you...

ok well if allah is the all seeing all hearing knows when what is gonna happen, why and how its gonna happen then how come when iblis didnt bow down to adam allah had to see who of us will follow him? What i mean is didn't allah already know it was gonna happen? If so, then how come he didn't stop it? And doesn't allah control everything? If so, why'd he let this happen? And couldn't allah just make shaitan disapear right there and save the big pain in de ...something??
And also, when you think bout it, when we get punished in the grave for our sins, or go to hell, or something, its because shaitan makes us do it, but shaitan is shaitan coz he didnt bow down to Adam, and Allah could've made non of this happen, and Allah could have made iblis not do what he did, and Also...

Why are we have to suffer for what iblis did? Don't this sound a bit...schoolish? you kno, when the geek siting next to u do something and YOU get in trouble? :D

k Jazakallah khair
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AntiKarateKid
07-12-2008, 02:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
:sl:

:-[


Ok well ...a quick question (another...quick question) for you...

ok well if allah is the all seeing all hearing knows when what is gonna happen, why and how its gonna happen then how come when iblis didnt bow down to adam allah had to see who of us will follow him? What i mean is didn't allah already know it was gonna happen? If so, then how come he didn't stop it? And doesn't allah control everything? If so, why'd he let this happen? And couldn't allah just make shaitan disapear right there and save the big pain in de ...something??
And also, when you think bout it, when we get punished in the grave for our sins, or go to hell, or something, its because shaitan makes us do it, but shaitan is shaitan coz he didnt bow down to Adam, and Allah could've made non of this happen, and Allah could have made iblis not do what he did, and Also...

Why are we have to suffer for what iblis did? Don't this sound a bit...schoolish? you kno, when the geek siting next to u do something and YOU get in trouble? :D

k Jazakallah khair


You have asked a thousand complicated questions. In fact you are asking the same ones I had asked for a few months before. You know waht I found out?

DONT WORRY! There is an answer to all of that and I'm getting the feeling that you are having doubts right now. I had em before too and spent a long time asking people about the answers a while ago. I got em but they were so simple that I felt foolish even asking them in the first place. Chill out and wait the doubts out. Listen to a couple of good surahs on youtube or something!

Allah knows best. By the way, your sig that talks about nobody caring is unnecessarily dark. Our plight is nothing some of the martyrs went through. Always remember, Allah is there for you and is always testing you and even rewarding or punishing you. Your job in the end is to acknowlege what he has given you ( Quran, etc) and leave the rest to him. Our understanding of the universe is not necessary for it to run. We gotta keep our heads and not get confused by asking too many questions when we barely have knowledge ourselves int he basics.
Reply

Questfortruth
07-12-2008, 02:31 AM
salamalykum

Everything is part of Allah swt's plan. Allah swt wants to test his slave. Allah swt knew what would happen but allowed it to happen. We are not being punished for what shaytan did rather for what we allowed shaytan to let us do. If a person tempts you to do something wrong and you do it. Then you should be punished for doing something wrong. Because you have a mind of your own to make judgements you know whats good and whats wrong. Thats why Allah swt is also forgiver. If we do something wrong and feel guilty and ask for forgiveness Allah swt will inshallah forgive us.
Reply

truemuslim
07-12-2008, 02:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
You have asked a thousand complicated questions. In fact you are asking the same ones I had asked for a few months before. You know waht I found out?

DONT WORRY! There is an answer to all of that and I'm getting the feeling that you are having doubts right now. I had em before too and spent a long time asking people about the answers a while ago. I got em but they were so simple that I felt foolish even asking them in the first place. Chill out and wait the doubts out. Listen to a couple of good surahs on youtube or something!
Allah knows best.
By the way, your sig that talks about nobody caring is unnecessarily dark. Our plight is nothing some of the martyrs went through. Always remember, Allah is there for you and is always testing you and even rewarding or punishing you. Your job in the end is to acknowlege what he has given you ( Quran, etc) and leave the rest to him. Our understanding of the universe is not necessary for it to run. We gotta keep our heads and not get confused by asking too many questions when we barely have knowledge ourselves int he basics.
When i say i won't worry coz im 99.9999% islam is the haq, my faith keep gettin lower and lower and i think religion is totally fake, since all the other religions seem so straight up stupid, and islam is a bit confusing, and when i look for answers i usually dont get them, when i question them sometimes it make it more confusing by the answers and i just play along, only SOME times they answered truely.

So how i stay without answers? Is there really even true answers out there about the questions i had?

nd btw i sayd im honest, and i am honest, nobody cares, they may pretend to care but before u kno it they turn against u....except sometimes allah--i mean um um allah is always there!!
Jazakallah khair:D
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truemuslim
07-12-2008, 02:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Questfortruth
salamalykum

Everything is part of Allah swt's plan. Allah swt wants to test his slave. Allah swt knew what would happen but allowed it to happen. We are not being punished for what shaytan did rather for what we allowed shaytan to let us do. If a person tempts you to do something wrong and you do it. Then you should be punished for doing something wrong. Because you have a mind of your own to make judgements you know whats good and whats wrong. Thats why Allah swt is also forgiver. If we do something wrong and feel guilty and ask for forgiveness Allah swt will inshallah forgive us.

But why??? Why do we gota do all this over one lil tiny small thing that happened ages ago which WE had NOTHING to do with??
Reply

AntiKarateKid
07-12-2008, 02:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
When i say i won't worry coz im 99.9999% islam is the haq, my faith keep gettin lower and lower and i think religion is totally fake, since all the other religions seem so straight up stupid, and islam is a bit confusing, and when i look for answers i usually dont get them, when i question them sometimes it make it more confusing by the answers and i just play along, only SOME times they answered truely.

So how i stay without answers? Is there really even true answers out there about the questions i had?

Jazakallah khair:D
Haha, forgive me you are going through exactly what I went through once before. The worse doubts hit me when I was praying one day at night. I battled with myself for a while and in the end kept on believing. Now, I am more clearheaded and I can see that I was being foolish before and Allah was testing me. And I can honestly say that I think I passed! ( taht one atleast hehe)

Anyways, religion is not fake. We live in trying times with atheists and kuffars running everywhere influencing us at every turn. Allah has granted us the blessing of this test. It is a blessing in that I think Allah felt that we were up to the challenge. No soul is burdened beyond what it can take. In short, chill, do something relaxing and keep on believing. The Prophet may have been speaking about our wretched time when he said this


The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

“Some people will come on the Day of Judgement and their Imaan will be outstanding, it’s light will shine from their chests and from their right hands. So it will be said to them, ‘Glad tidings for you today, Assalamu ‘alaikum and Goodness for you, Enter into it (Jannah) forever!’ So the Angels and the Prophets will be jealous of the Love of Allah for them.”

So the Sahabah asked, “Who are they, Ya Rasoolullah?” He (sallahu ‘alayhi wasalam) replied, “They are not from us and they are not from you. You are my companions but they are my beloved. They will come after you and will find the Book (the Qur’an) made redundant by the people, and a Sunnah which has been killed by them. So they will grab hold of the Book and the Sunnah and revive them. So they read them and teach them (the Qur’an and the Sunnah) to the people and they will experience in that path a punishment more severe and more ugly than what you (O Sahabah) have experienced. Indeed the Imaan of one of them is equivalent to the Imaan of forty of you. The Shaheed of one of them is equivalent to forty of your Shuhadaa’. Because you found a helper towards the truth (the Prophet) and they will find no helper towards the truth. So they will be surrounded by tyrant rulers in every place, and they will be in the surroundings of Baitul-Maqdis (Al-Quds, Masjid al-Aqsa). The Nussrah (Help and Victory) of Allah will come to them, and they will have the honour of it on their hands.” Then he (sallahu ‘alayhi wasalam) said, “O Allah, give them the Nussrah and make them my close friends in Jannah.”

- Reported by Ahmad:
Reply

Questfortruth
07-12-2008, 02:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
But why??? Why do we gota do all this over one lil tiny small thing that happened ages ago which WE had NOTHING to do with??
Thats not the point. Allah swt created us for the purpose to test us and give us either reward or punishment. We are not paying for what shaytaan did rather being tested and shaytaan is their to tempt us.
Reply

truemuslim
07-12-2008, 02:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Questfortruth
Thats not the point. Allah swt created us for the purpose to test us and give us either reward or punishment. We are not paying for what shaytaan did rather being tested and shaytaan is their to tempt us.

Shaitan is there to tempt us, but shaitan started coz he was stupid and didn't bow down to adaam, so if we get tempted and fall for that shaitan then it means we aint following allah, but allah wanted to see who follow him, all because shaitan didnt bow down to adaam.

Godd i feel the thing im trying to say is totally un understandable!!:-[:-[
Reply

truemuslim
07-12-2008, 02:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Haha, forgive me you are going through exactly what I went through once before. The worse doubts hit me when I was praying one day at night. I battled with myself for a while and in the end kept on believing. Now, I am more clearheaded and I can see that I was being foolish before and Allah was testing me. And I can honestly say that I think I passed! ( taht one atleast hehe)

Anyways, religion is not fake. We live in trying times with atheists and kuffars running everywhere influencing us at every turn. Allah has granted us the blessing of this test. It is a blessing in that I think Allah felt that we were up to the challenge. No soul is burdened beyond what it can take. In short, chill, do something relaxing and keep on believing. The Prophet may have been speaking about our wretched time when he said this


The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

“Some people will come on the Day of Judgement and their Imaan will be outstanding, it’s light will shine from their chests and from their right hands. So it will be said to them, ‘Glad tidings for you today, Assalamu ‘alaikum and Goodness for you, Enter into it (Jannah) forever!’ So the Angels and the Prophets will be jealous of the Love of Allah for them.”

So the Sahabah asked, “Who are they, Ya Rasoolullah?” He (sallahu ‘alayhi wasalam) replied, “They are not from us and they are not from you. You are my companions but they are my beloved. They will come after you and will find the Book (the Qur’an) made redundant by the people, and a Sunnah which has been killed by them. So they will grab hold of the Book and the Sunnah and revive them. So they read them and teach them (the Qur’an and the Sunnah) to the people and they will experience in that path a punishment more severe and more ugly than what you (O Sahabah) have experienced. Indeed the Imaan of one of them is equivalent to the Imaan of forty of you. The Shaheed of one of them is equivalent to forty of your Shuhadaa’. Because you found a helper towards the truth (the Prophet) and they will find no helper towards the truth. So they will be surrounded by tyrant rulers in every place, and they will be in the surroundings of Baitul-Maqdis (Al-Quds, Masjid al-Aqsa). The Nussrah (Help and Victory) of Allah will come to them, and they will have the honour of it on their hands.” Then he (sallahu ‘alayhi wasalam) said, “O Allah, give them the Nussrah and make them my close friends in Jannah.”

- Reported by Ahmad:
so there really answers?
Ok jazakallah khair for the hadiths.
lets just hope they reallll answers.
not cause of new questions:-[
Reply

Mikayeel
07-12-2008, 02:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
:sl:

:-[


Ok well ...a quick question (another...quick question) for you...

ok well if allah is the all seeing all hearing knows when what is gonna happen, why and how its gonna happen then how come when iblis didnt bow down to adam allah had to see who of us will follow him? What i mean is didn't allah already know it was gonna happen? If so, then how come he didn't stop it? And doesn't allah control everything? If so, why'd he let this happen? And couldn't allah just make shaitan disapear right there and save the big pain in de ...something??
And also, when you think bout it, when we get punished in the grave for our sins, or go to hell, or something, its because shaitan makes us do it, but shaitan is shaitan coz he didnt bow down to Adam, and Allah could've made non of this happen, and Allah could have made iblis not do what he did, and Also...

Why are we have to suffer for what iblis did? Don't this sound a bit...schoolish? you kno, when the geek siting next to u do something and YOU get in trouble? :D

k Jazakallah khair
:sl:

Iblis doesnt make you suffer a bit, Its you(not u as a person) who allows him to enter and make u suffer by not being pious. Allah has given free will, if he did not then we would be nothing more than robots following orders right?

So free will is been given, things can choose their path. If that wasnt the case then what is the point of us living? We would be as invaluable as a remote control, just following orders all the time!

See the thing with human kind is, they are ever so ungrateful. Always thinking that they have better solutions to so called problems. Its only a state of a human being so ignorant that he has no clue what he is on about.

Well anyway your questions are good! However do not let ur mind wander astray to much, by asking questions that put doub in ur heart. Because thats all that shaytaan wants! Shaytan can't make u worship a stone instead of Allah, he fills a persons heart with doub.... slowly but surely!

:w:
Reply

Questfortruth
07-12-2008, 02:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Shaitan is there to tempt us, but shaitan started coz he was stupid and didn't bow down to adaam, so if we get tempted and fall for that shaitan then it means we aint following allah, but allah wanted to see who follow him, all because shaitan didnt bow down to adaam.

Godd i feel the thing im trying to say is totally un understandable!!:-[:-[
Agian shaytaan refusing to bow down to adam A.s. was part of the plan. Everything is created for a purpose. You need to understand that Allah knew everything before anything happened. Allah Swt knew he would refuse to bow down and challenge Allah to send him down with the humans so he can mislead us.
Reply

Tornado
07-12-2008, 02:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Questfortruth
Agian shaytaan refusing to bow down to adam A.s. was part of the plan. Everything is created for a purpose. You need to understand that Allah knew everything before anything happened. Allah Swt knew he would refuse to bow down and challenge Allah to send him down with the humans so he can mislead us.
I'm guessing that he/she doesn't find that a satisfactory answer, and btw, trumuslim, you aren't going to get a satisfactory answer.
Reply

Questfortruth
07-12-2008, 02:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tornado
I'm guessing that he/she doesn't find that a satisfactory answer.
We muslims believe Allah swt knows everything even before it happens. For me to claim Allah did not know Shaytaan would refuse to bow down to Adam a.s. would be disbelieve. So if I understand the concept of Allah knows everything. Then I can understand why Shaytaan was there and why he was send on earth with humans. Its all part of Allahs plan. I dont know why would a muslim require more answer then just understanding its plan of Allah. Allah knows best.
Reply

truemuslim
07-12-2008, 03:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by raOnar
:sl:

Iblis doesnt make you suffer a bit, Its you(not u as a person) who allows him to enter and make u suffer by not being pious. Allah has given free will, if he did not then we would be nothing more than robots following orders right?

So free will is been given, things can choose their path. If that wasnt the case then what is the point of us living? We would be as invaluable as a remote control, just following orders all the time!

See the thing with human kind is, they are ever so ungrateful. Always thinking that they have better solutions to so called problems. Its only a state of a human being so ignorant that he has no clue what he is on about.

Well anyway your questions are good! However do not let ur mind wander astray to much, by asking questions that put doub in ur heart. Because thats all that shaytaan wants! Shaytan can't make u worship a stone instead of Allah, he fills a persons heart with doub.... slowly but surely!

:w:
Well i think it would be muuuuch better to be robots and never do anything allah dont obey us to do, rather than do what we want and get punished for swaying away a few times! But..thats just me...

I just think where all this started from! one tiny thing! And because this one tiny thing, we suffer all this, for some ELSES business, i mean like allah COULD have put us and the shaitan in an arena and let us fight and whoever win win! You kno, like soldiers of allah. But why we gota earn jannah when we aint got nothing to do with this?

i feel like am speaking ina whole different language no body understand. and this time its ENGLISH not ghetto! :(



Questfortruth:
Agian shaytaan refusing to bow down to adam A.s. was part of the plan. Everything is created for a purpose. You need to understand that Allah knew everything before anything happened. Allah Swt knew he would refuse to bow down and challenge Allah to send him down with the humans so he can mislead us.
:( is giving up an answer? You kno, that thing u do when u can never find an answer so u just play along with religion staying clueless??? I been doing that for ever, i try to fix that, seems a bit impossible :-[ :(
Reply

Tornado
07-12-2008, 03:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Questfortruth
We muslims believe Allah swt knows everything even before it happens. For me to claim Allah did not know Shaytaan would refuse to bow down to Adam a.s. would be disbelieve. So if I understand the concept of Allah knows everything. Then I can understand why Shaytaan was there and why he was send on earth with humans. Its all part of Allahs plan. I dont know why would a muslim require more answer then just understanding its plan of Allah. Allah knows best.
I get a sense that just the way truemuslim is asking those questions, it really seems like he/she won't be finding those answers here.
Reply

Tornado
07-12-2008, 03:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude™
No offence, but don' take the p.
:-[Sorry, I don't understand at all.
Reply

truemuslim
07-12-2008, 03:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tornado
I'm guessing that he/she doesn't find that a satisfactory answer, and btw, trumuslim, you aren't going to get a satisfactory answer.
I know, some risks worth taking tho. even if its a huuuge waste of quran memorizing time!

Bear in mind, just because you haven't found the answers you're looking for, it doesn't mean they're not out there. You just have to look in the right place.
Its what they all say, and most of my OTHER questions are still un answered for so far, a year, i think.

And maybe an Islamic forum isn't the best place to find them? The questions you're asking, they require people of knowledge to answer. Ask a sheikh, you're only getting peoples' (well intentioned, yet) unqualified answers here, no wonder you get confused.
where in the world would i find a shiekh in MY area who KNOWS at least the definition of the word islam??

Having said that, I agree with what Questfortruth says:
Also, are you aware that Allah took a covenant from us before we were even born?
I don't remember saying any of that. ok ok jus messin . i kno wut u mean.

But how come we couldnt just be lil saints and save ourselves, and the shaitan, and allah, all this trouble??
Less people would go to hell, less people would get punished and MORE people will be in jannah. and to top that off, More smiles on Allah's face....if he has one :D


i dont think ima get my asnwer any time soon so am out.
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-12-2008, 03:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
But why??? Why do we gota do all this over one lil tiny small thing that happened ages ago which WE had NOTHING to do with??
:sl:

{And when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."}[al-Baqarah; 30]

Our reason for coming here was not Shaytan not bowing down to Adam or Adam eating from the tree. These events occured to facilitate what is stated in the above verse. Meaning that, we were going to come here anyway, regardless of whether Shaytan bowed to Adam or not, whether Adam ate from the tree or not because it was the intent of our Lord that he create mankind to live upon earth. So when Shaytan refused to bow down, and when Adam ate from the tree, these occurred out of Allaah's Divine Wisdom. The lessons in there for us are numerous.

Notice that the angels asked Allaah the Wisdom for creating a creation that causes corruption and spreads blood. Allaah replies to them saying that His Knowledge of us exceeds the angels' knowledge. The commentator of the Qur'an, Ibn Katheer says:
(I know that which you do not know.) meaning, "I know that the benefit of creating this type of creature outweighs the harm that you mentioned, that which you have no knowledge of. I will create among them Prophets and send Messengers. I will also create among them truthful, martyrs, righteous believers, worshippers, the modest, the pious, the scholars who implement their knowledge, humble people and those who love Allah and follow His Messengers.''
Lastly, Allaah says:

{O you who have believed, believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book that He sent down upon His Messenger...}[an-Nisaa; 136]

Notice this verse is addressed to us - those who have already believed. It is so that we may complete our imaan and maintain it because at times, imaan does weaken due to external factors and influences. So at those times, it is very important that we don't let our imaan be snatched away from us. May Allaah keep us firm. Ameen.

:w:
Reply

truemuslim
07-12-2008, 05:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Sayyad
:sl:

{And when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."}[al-Baqarah; 30]

Our reason for coming here was not Shaytan not bowing down to Adam or Adam eating from the tree. These events occured to facilitate what is stated in the above verse. Meaning that, we were going to come here anyway, regardless of whether Shaytan bowed to Adam or not, whether Adam ate from the tree or not because it was the intent of our Lord that he create mankind to live upon earth. So when Shaytan refused to bow down, and when Adam ate from the tree, these occurred out of Allaah's Divine Wisdom. The lessons in there for us are numerous.

Notice that the angels asked Allaah the Wisdom for creating a creation that causes corruption and spreads blood. Allaah replies to them saying that His Knowledge of us exceeds the angels' knowledge. The commentator of the Qur'an, Ibn Katheer says:
(I know that which you do not know.) meaning, "I know that the benefit of creating this type of creature outweighs the harm that you mentioned, that which you have no knowledge of. I will create among them Prophets and send Messengers. I will also create among them truthful, martyrs, righteous believers, worshippers, the modest, the pious, the scholars who implement their knowledge, humble people and those who love Allah and follow His Messengers.''
Lastly, Allaah says:

{O you who have believed, believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book that He sent down upon His Messenger...}[an-Nisaa; 136]

Notice this verse is addressed to us - those who have already believed. It is so that we may complete our imaan and maintain it because at times, imaan does weaken due to external factors and influences. So at those times, it is very important that we don't let our imaan be snatched away from us. May Allaah keep us firm. Ameen.

:w:
So the purpose of us being here is to worship allah and resist temptations of shaitan? But how come it says that allah put us in this world to see who follow him and who follow shaitan? Meaning it was "planned" after the shaitan became shaitan and after all that stuff happened.
Why couldn't allah just make the shaitan go straight to hell and us go straight to heaven? Or make the shaitan not do what he did do?

Jazakallah khair for ur reply btw :)

Alpha duude
Sorry mate, I reacted in heat. It seemed as though you were suggesting that she wouldn't find answers because there aren't any. I found that quite offensive, as though you were deliberately trying to make everything we say seem stupid to her impressionable young mind lol.
:eek: Is there supposed to be a hidden insult in that?! :raging:

Truemuslim, you have a lot of doubt. The best advice I can give you, is to turn to Allah yourself, with your heart and ask for sincere guidance. Do this unrelentingly.
No, I got millions of islamic questions to ask. and i mean millions. I do ask for guidence. But im defidently ignored...as usual. :D

I have faith that Allah would guide you, if you're sincere. No way would he turn away a sincere seeker. True faith is from the heart.
If i sit here waiting for allah to guide me i will be like 50yrs old and still clueless coz like i said, im ignored.

yeh still smiling :D
Reply

SixTen
07-12-2008, 05:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
:sl:

:-[


Ok well ...a quick question (another...quick question) for you...

ok well if allah is the all seeing all hearing knows when what is gonna happen, why and how its gonna happen then how come when iblis didnt bow down to adam allah had to see who of us will follow him? What i mean is didn't allah already know it was gonna happen? If so, then how come he didn't stop it? And doesn't allah control everything? If so, why'd he let this happen? And couldn't allah just make shaitan disapear right there and save the big pain in de ...something??
And also, when you think bout it, when we get punished in the grave for our sins, or go to hell, or something, its because shaitan makes us do it, but shaitan is shaitan coz he didnt bow down to Adam, and Allah could've made non of this happen, and Allah could have made iblis not do what he did, and Also...

Why are we have to suffer for what iblis did? Don't this sound a bit...schoolish? you kno, when the geek siting next to u do something and YOU get in trouble? :D

k Jazakallah khair
You got it all wrong sis, hope this explains to you some things.

You do not do things because the shaitan made you do it. You have free choice, if shaitan was the force which made you do things, Allah would not punish you - as it would be unjust. Rather, you are taught what Allah allows/not, and the shaaitan tempts you to these wrongs. The faith in God, is what you use to fight against such temptations and desires, which are brought to you from the shaaitan.

You don't suffer for what iblis did. You exist, as do the angels exist, for the purpose of praising Allah, not because he needs it, but because he is worthy of it. But, unlike angels, you have the free will to do it or not, which makes you superior in terms of worship, to that of Angels, as yours is voluntary as the angels are not.

Islam does not have this original sin thing, you are not the product of 1 mans or 1 shaatians mishap. Allah had willed that all of this happens, he didn't forbid the shaaitan/adam incident, simply because, that was not his will - his will was to allow them to do actions according to their own will - as we do in this life - It is all a test.

You are here, not in heaven, fo you to voluntarily worship God. If you do, you will go to heaven (with God), if not, you go to hell (with shaaitan, i.e. the path you chose). Allah has made it so that, you must earn heaven/hell. It is not for us to question why. Its your choice really, you can't complain.

If you have a few hours spare, listen to this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVQ1B...eature=related (its 17 parts). Do not skip it, you must, infact I insist you watch it. Becaus, those who have such questions do so because of little doubts. Wouldn't want Allah to think you didn't do anything possible to fix those nagging doubts. So do watch it! It is of an athiest, with all your questions and more, who later converted to Islam.
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truemuslim
07-12-2008, 06:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SixTen
You got it all wrong sis, hope this explains to you some things.

You do not do things because the shaitan made you do it. You have free choice, if shaitan was the force which made you do things, Allah would not punish you - as it would be unjust. Rather, you are taught what Allah allows/not, and the shaaitan tempts you to these wrongs. The faith in God, is what you use to fight against such temptations and desires, which are brought to you from the shaaitan.

You don't suffer for what iblis did. You exist, as do the angels exist, for the purpose of praising Allah, not because he needs it, but because he is worthy of it. But, unlike angels, you have the free will to do it or not, which makes you superior in terms of worship, to that of Angels, as yours is voluntary as the angels are not.

Islam does not have this original sin thing, you are not the product of 1 mans or 1 shaatians mishap. Allah had willed that all of this happens, he didn't forbid the shaaitan/adam incident, simply because, that was not his will - his will was to allow them to do actions according to their own will - as we do in this life - It is all a test.

You are here, not in heaven, fo you to voluntarily worship God. If you do, you will go to heaven (with God), if not, you go to hell (with shaaitan, i.e. the path you chose). Allah has made it so that, you must earn heaven/hell. It is not for us to question why.

Its your choice really, you can't complain.
Ooh much better answer.
but now i have more questions...:-[

Why do you peopel think its better to have "free will", that way you have a chance to sin, and get punished, than to be like angels and not possible for us to sin or get punished??

And...

If allah already knows whats gonna happen, and controls what happens, and its all written, then why do we have to go through this life to SEE who will follow him and who will follow shaitan? Aren't the results already there? And wouldn't it be...oh i cant believe im saying this ... buut.... wouldnt it be because allah that we are being "misguided " ? I mean...since he can "control" everything that happens.
So that means he controlled iblis to do what he did. He controls us to obey shaitan. He controls shaitan to tempt us. He controls the non muslims not to turn to islam. He controls us to doubt islam. And He is controlling me to say things i never thought i'd say right now.

So who is it to blame for us going to hell? Who is it to blame for OUR punishment? WHo is it to blame for what shaitan did and is doing?

:eek: Please nobody jump at me for saying this. Been holding it too long, and want answers. :-[:-[:-[:-[
Reply

SixTen
07-12-2008, 06:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Ooh much better answer.
but now i have more questions...:-[

Why do you peopel think its better to have "free will", that way you have a chance to sin, and get punished, than to be like angels and not possible for us to sin or get punished??

And...

If allah already knows whats gonna happen, and controls what happens, and its all written, then why do we have to go through this life to SEE who will follow him and who will follow shaitan? Aren't the results already there? And wouldn't it be...oh i cant believe im saying this ... buut.... wouldnt it be because allah that we are being "misguided " ? I mean...since he can "control" everything that happens.
So that means he controlled iblis to do what he did. He controls us to obey shaitan. He controls shaitan to tempt us. He controls the non muslims not to turn to islam. He controls us to doubt islam. And He is controlling me to say things i never thought i'd say right now.

So who is it to blame for us going to hell? Who is it to blame for OUR punishment? WHo is it to blame for what shaitan did and is doing?

:eek: Please nobody jump at me for saying this. Been holding it too long, and want answers. :-[:-[:-[:-[
Its not people think, its is better. It is better in Allah's eyes, that we worship him voluntarily, rather than robot like. Would you not prefer say, a friend buying you something to be nice - rather than someone buying something for you because you ordered them to? Which would you see as the superior act.

Also, you may ask, why not just take us to judgement day now? I'll explain.

Imagine, tommorow, I took you to court, trialed you for a murder case and then sent you to prison.

You would object, you would say "When did I do that?" or "I would never do that!", what I mean is, the life is going to be the evidence for you at judgement day - for you to be able to see what you did. So you could not object to it. It is the most fair way, rather than God telling you what you would have done and punishing you - he let you do what he knows you will do for your benefit, not his.

Remembe, Allah knows what you will do - not that he will make you do things. E.g., he will know in advance if you will wake up for fajr for the prayer, but in no way does he intervene.

Allah knows in the end, whether you are going to heaven or Hell, but he does not force you to follow the shaaitan in any act, he does not force you to do anything - but he just knows.

Like, given a boy, you know he would take a Action man toy rather than a barbie doll - but Allah is infinitly more superior to us, he is even better at knowing what we will do, as he knows deep inside our morals, imaan, faith etc.
Reply

S_87
07-12-2008, 08:31 PM
ok ill try and explain this is a simple way, hope this helps.

Truemuslim, i know youre going to do something, you havent done it yet..but i know you are going to murder someone. So i put you into jail and give you the death penatly. But you protest, you havent actually done the crime. I knew you were going to do it, but you didnt! See my problem?

Now Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala knows what we are going to do. But He, out of His infinite wisdom gave us the free will to live on earth. The shaytaan does not force us to disobey Allah. Its like a person selling you drugs, they gave u the drugs, but you took it. Are you innocent? Can you say the blame is all on the drug pusher? No, you took the drugs willingly. You wanted it. He introduced you to it. But you made the choices.

Now Allah knows what we will do- look around you now. How many people do you see disobeying and disbelieving in Allah? However, before coming onto earth each and every one of us testified in the Lordship of Allah.
the Quran states:

And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adams loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "yes! We testify," lest you should say on the day of Resurrection: "Verily, we have been unaware of this."
7:172

So what you are saying already happened, we testified, no we are being tested for the truness of our words. In a worldly example- say youre a high school teacher. You have two students. One quite bright, a science nerd. Another, not as clever- most likely to flop science. Can you fail this not so clever student before hes taken the test since you know he wont pass? would he not argue, but you havent given me the chance, i might have passed. You know theres no way he can pass, but you give him the chance to show himself. That way, you cant be accused of being unfair right? Because he has this own evidence against him, he tried and he flopped. You knew it, but till he himself did the test and showed himself- he didnt realise.

Now think truemuslim, when a person wants to do something haraam, is it because the shaytaan forced them, or they wanted to? Have we not all been given free will? Does that mean if we do good deeds we shouldnt be rewarded paradise because Allah wants us to obey Him? Does Allah force us to do good deeds? No, sister we have been given our own minds to know whats right and wrong, good and bad.
If Allah wished, He could have put us all into either heaven or hell, we hadnt commited no actions but Allah knew our destinies. Would that be fair? would that make sense? Would we not all argue, that no! we will obey! put us all into heaven!

As ive said before, we have free will. Our destinies are written, but we arent robots.

and the reason Allah created us was to worship Him.


and I (Allah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship me (Alone).
51:56
Reply

truemuslim
07-13-2008, 08:51 AM
Em, so allah dont control nobody?
wow so 99 names, can control natural disasters, can control the earth to blow up whenever he feels like it, can control when judgement day come, but cant control what we do???? Cmon !

but what i meant is why we gotta go thru this? Its liek when u see a movie, and you seein it again to see ONE certain thing that happened in it, why would you rewatch the entire movie just for one thing, when you KNOW whats gonna happen? Like say allah right now couldve made us fastfoward life for say ten years, and he made it seem as if we had a past, but we didnt get to see that past, but it seems like it did, we would have no idea what just happened, so why cant he just fastfoward it to when we come back to him?? Just end all this since it all written, all ready, all judged, everything is set so why rewatch it? See for a MOVIE its for entertainment, but its only with COOL movies like hancock, but life, it aint no entertainment, and im pretty sure watching ur slaves in jannah is much more entertaining.

dont ya think????


Its ok, if you wanna stop right here and leave, go ahead, cause i am pretty pretty sure this is gonna be endless. :(
Reply

truemuslim
07-13-2008, 09:00 AM
another thing... Why does allah want us to worship him? What is the purpose? I know the usual replies are "Its not that he created us to worship him, its that he deserves to be worshipped" Ok i know that, but if he deserves to be worshipped then why would he create us to worship him? Does that make sense? Like em...wouldn't that mean he really did create us to worship him? So we are in this world to worship him. I get that. But WHY? Don't say because he is worthy enough for it or whatever. That answer gets old when u think alot. But WHY would allah create us to worship him ?
Reply

Ali.
07-13-2008, 09:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Em, so allah dont control nobody?
wow so 99 names, can control natural disasters, can control the earth to blow up whenever he feels like it, can control when judgement day come, but cant control what we do???? Cmon !

but what i meant is why we gotta go thru this? Its liek when u see a movie, and you seein it again to see ONE certain thing that happened in it, why would you rewatch the entire movie just for one thing, when you KNOW whats gonna happen? Like say allah right now couldve made us fastfoward life for say ten years, and he made it seem as if we had a past, but we didnt get to see that past, but it seems like it did, we would have no idea what just happened, so why cant he just fastfoward it to when we come back to him?? Just end all this since it all written, all ready, all judged, everything is set so why rewatch it? See for a MOVIE its for entertainment, but its only with COOL movies like hancock, but life, it aint no entertainment, and im pretty sure watching ur slaves in jannah is much more entertaining.

dont ya think????


Its ok, if you wanna stop right here and leave, go ahead, cause i am pretty pretty sure this is gonna be endless. :(
Right, it seems to me you're asking why are we here.

Aren't you happy that theirs a mighty reward up for grabs; Jannah?

About Allah (swt) controlling us, he gave us conscience, which allows us to make our own decisions and actions which reflects upon who we really are. Although we can make any decision at any time, Allah (swt) knows what we will do as he created us. For example, you have conscience right now, you could jump infront of a car and kill yourself, but will you? Allah knows.


Hmm... Maybe you will understand better if someone explains to you in person. Why don't you ask your parents?
Reply

Ali.
07-13-2008, 09:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
another thing... Why does allah want us to worship him? What is the purpose? I know the usual replies are "Its not that he created us to worship him, its that he deserves to be worshipped" Ok i know that, but if he deserves to be worshipped then why would he create us to worship him? Does that make sense? Like em...wouldn't that mean he really did create us to worship him? So we are in this world to worship him. I get that. But WHY? Don't say because he is worthy enough for it or whatever. That answer gets old when u think alot. But WHY would allah create us to worship him ?
Because he told us to. And if we do all he has commanded us to, then Jannah insha'Allah.
Reply

truemuslim
07-13-2008, 09:09 AM
Right, it seems to me you're asking why are we here.

Aren't you happy that theirs a mighty reward up for grabs; Jannah?
Thats the thing...what if there isn't no jannah? And what if this is all a lie? What if we were going the wrong way all along? What if ther is another religion thats right? What if islam was changed too? What happens in the end if we find out we're wrong...:-[ sooorrry!

And also, wouldn't it be better to see your religon all clear instead of blind and doubt?

About Allah (swt) controlling us, he gave us conscience, which allows us to make our own decisions and actions which reflects upon who we really are. Although we can make any decision at any time, Allah (swt) knows what we will do as he created us.
So do he control or not? They say he control everything, when someone is about to convert out of islam, why cant he pull them back to islam? Why does he suddenly fill there heart with doubt and regret? I know your answer is "the shaitan tempted them, not allah" yeh well allah control shaitan too, right?

For example, you have conscience right now, you could jump infront of a car and kill yourself, but will you? Allah knows.
Maybe, but its haram so No. :D


Hmm... Maybe you will understand better if someone explains to you in person. Why don't you ask your parents?
Lol hell no, i can't ask a local imam and try my parents??! psh.
you kno my dad just told me YESTERDAY for the FIRST time EVER that music is haram. And he only said that because the radio was too loud and he want me to stop keep it loud. :-\
Reply

truemuslim
07-13-2008, 09:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ali.
Because he told us to. And if we do all he has commanded us to, then Jannah insha'Allah.

ah cmon, so ima invent a robot so it can worship me then ima give it a new chip if it does, but if it doesn't then i will take a sledge hammer and squish it to pieces. Why would i do that? Thats the question :D

k am off to bed now. it 5:12am. havent slept. cant sleep.
peace :D
Reply

Ali.
07-13-2008, 09:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Thats the thing...what if there isn't no jannah? And what if this is all a lie? What if we were going the wrong way all along? What if ther is another religion thats right? sooorrry!
I'm sure you've seen many proofs of Islam, no?
I've read somewhere that you're 15/16, that's still pretty young. When you get older insha'Allah this is the decision you have to make, you have to research all religions and decide on which one you think is truth.
The Qur'an... the complex Arabic is contains, no mistake whatsoever, do you think man could have written it? And if you think man did, then try and write 10 verses of it. I'm serious, give it a try.


format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
What if islam was changed too?
It would've been written down in History.

So do he control or not?
He created you, he controls what he creates in you, he created conscience, then you make the most of it. So yes.

when someone is about to convert out of islam, why cant he pull them back to islam? Why does he suddenly fill there heart with doubt and regret? I know your answer is "the shaitan tempted them, not allah" yeh well allah control shaitan too, right?
That's the test.

format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
ah cmon, so ima invent a robot so it can worship me then ima give it a new chip if it does, but if it doesn't then i will take a sledge hammer and squish it to pieces. Why would i do that? Thats the question :D
The Qur'an is a book of guidance, not an explanation as to why He created you.

k am off to bed now. it 5:12am. havent slept. cant sleep.
peace :D
No wonder you're so confused, go to bed.
Reply

cute123
07-13-2008, 09:40 AM
the very fact that we ignore is like we demand from Allah Tallah that why is not everything straight and simple. why do we have to go through this hell before reaching our abode - The paradise. But we forget that He has devised a plan and we walk accordingly to the plan. Each individual thinks that Allah Tallah is so powerful if he just gives me money then i wont have worries. But Allah Tallah has a special plan for HIM as He knows what will he do with that money.
Its the same as our parents deal with us. its like we are questioning why do we grow up why cant we always be a child as it very simple to be. we need to realize the pattern set for us by our Almighty LORD.
According to my understanding He has given us too much of power and the only thing is He wants us to utilize that . Some of them are fear of Allah , patience , forgiveness, self control .How much u utilize it that much will be your reward. and how much each one will be able to utilize He knows that also by HIS knowledge. And then HE enwraps that person with HIS mercy or with HIS justice.

In Quraan most of the Surahs they are a plain warning that resurrection is going to happen . the day of qayamah will happen. its just reminding us , isnt like the teacher is giving the questions before hand of the exams. but we are like we dont want the exam itself. is that logical.
If we were just no where responsible then the hell and paradise wouldnt have been created.

Looking at the sahabas , i just feel to proud to say that , the path UMAR(ra) would pass through Iblis would change His way. and the story of a jin who captivated a girl was bought to Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal. the jinn responded - you fear ALLAH and all fear you and left her. After Imam's death he again captivated her and was taken to a sheikh, he started laughing and said Imam Ahmad has died , Imam Ahmad has died.

If He wants us to fight against Shaitan , didnt He give us Salaat , Quraan, Prophet (salllaho alaiahi wassalam) , our sahabahs.

the only thing is we need to realize the potential we have and consequently utlize it - May Allah make it easy for us. Ameen but one thing is sure He is the most merciful. so try to be away from the major sins that HE has forbidden , pray 5 times a day and hope from HIM and repent for all the sins done. Isnt Our Lord most merciful who loves us when we repent that means we gain marks even if we do mistakes also. least He says is die in Imaan with shahadah in heart. I feel shameful. leave the iblis at side , cant we be actually good muslims as the sahabas were. May Allah guide us . He guides whomsoever He wills. Ameen
Reply

SixTen
07-13-2008, 12:33 PM
Em, so allah dont control nobody?
wow so 99 names, can control natural disasters, can control the earth to blow up whenever he feels like it, can control when judgement day come, but cant control what we do???? Cmon !
Incorrect, God can control you, but he said he doesn't - and their is no evidence that he does - so why wonder if God is controlling you.
but what i meant is why we gotta go thru this? Its liek when u see a movie, and you seein it again to see ONE certain thing that happened in it, why would you rewatch the entire movie just for one thing, when you KNOW whats gonna happen? Like say allah right now couldve made us fastfoward life for say ten years, and he made it seem as if we had a past, but we didnt get to see that past, but it seems like it did, we would have no idea what just happened, so why cant he just fastfoward it to when we come back to him?? Just end all this since it all written, all ready, all judged, everything is set so why rewatch it? See for a MOVIE its for entertainment, but its only with COOL movies like hancock, but life, it aint no entertainment, and im pretty sure watching ur slaves in jannah is much more entertaining.
If he fast fowarded you 10 years, you would ask why not 20, 30, or maybe you would want it as it is. These are just arguements like "Why is the Qur'an written in Arabic"? The Qur'an answers that, you would say why not another if it was anything else. Just accept how it is now.

another thing... Why does allah want us to worship him? What is the purpose? I know the usual replies are "Its not that he created us to worship him, its that he deserves to be worshipped" Ok i know that, but if he deserves to be worshipped then why would he create us to worship him? Does that make sense? Like em...wouldn't that mean he really did create us to worship him? So we are in this world to worship him. I get that. But WHY? Don't say because he is worthy enough for it or whatever. That answer gets old when u think alot. But WHY would allah create us to worship him ?
So we can earn being with him in heaven (earning something is superior to getting it for free).

Its ok, if you wanna stop right here and leave, go ahead, cause i am pretty pretty sure this is gonna be endless.
At the end, you are asking "Why's", about things which are true. You are here, you have received guidance, your task is not to use to work out why God did X or Y - God is incomprehendable, we are mere humans, we only have sufficient knowledge to be able to do what he has asked us. I mean, can you imagine, fully understanding your God, when we are even confused with Calculus? God chose what he releases to you and what he does not.


Sis, please watch that youtube link I gave you, go through that 3 hours and tell me you wasn't satisfied!
Reply

suffiyan007
07-13-2008, 01:42 PM
simply Allah dont want to make the satan dissappeared....! Cause Allah Wanna see how we must fight our appetite and syaitan,mean Jihad.God wanna see the Human struggle for Allah,do anything for Allah,Syaitan is just a game that Allah plays...he created Syaitan is to see how strong we can fight with Satan seductions,that's why God already knew it that Syaitan dont obey ADam..and still let it be!and doesnt destroy it the syaitan,SYaitan is a test for Human!
Reply

Woodrow
07-13-2008, 02:16 PM
Each of us is responsible for our own choices. None of us are forced into believing anything and none of us are "made" to sin because of the temptations of the shaytan.

We often are our own worse shaytans and tempt ourselves and others, because we do have the ability to do so. It is easy to place the blame for our choices upon shaytan, but it is our own desire and choices that cause us to follow shaytan or to act like shaytans.

We are not made to follow either the path to Jannah or the path to hellfire, but we are allowed to follow as we desire. However, we alone will reap the rewards or pains of the path we choose.

We can be given a large sum of money to buy an elegant dinner. But, we can squander the money on junk and go hungry. If we starve after geing given the money for food, it is a punishment only because we alone took that path.

so it is with life, we have been given the directions to follow the path to Jannah, it is our choice if we choose to follow the pah to hellfire instead.

Sorry, we can not blame either Allaah(swt) or shaytan if we find the path to hellfire to be the easier and more enjoyable path, we have to live in the domain the path ends at.
Reply

truemuslim
07-13-2008, 07:17 PM
ooh finally sum real anwers comin...sorta.
em well jazakallah khair so much everyone, and yeh i did watch that video in youtube, not all but most. Mashallah.
Jazakallah khair. tho i do still have much more questions. ima just leave them and try and figure them out myself. ....coughgooglecoughqurancough:)
Reply

Eric H
07-13-2008, 07:40 PM
Greetings and peace be with you truemuslim,

Ok as I remember you are around 15, forgive me if I am wrong, anyway my point is this; in years to come you might marry and start a family. You already know that some children grow up and loose their faith, you know some children grow up to be murderers, rapists, robbers. Once your children are about fifteen you have very little control over them, when they grow up to be forty you have hardly any say in what they do.

If you know this why would you ever have children?

If you have ten children and two grow up to be bad what can you do?

Ok atheists will argue that human parents and God are very different, and that might be so. But it appears the choices to create or not to create life are very much the same for us and God.

In the spirit of searching for a loving and merciful God,

Eric
Reply

S_87
07-13-2008, 08:57 PM
Em, so allah dont control nobody?
wow so 99 names, can control natural disasters, can control the earth to blow up whenever he feels like it, can control when judgement day come, but cant control what we do???? Cmon !
Allah can control everything. But think about it. Say i control you. Can i punish you for something youve done wrong when i am controlling you? Can i reward you when your totally under my control anyway?

but what i meant is why we gotta go thru this? Its liek when u see a movie, and you seein it again to see ONE certain thing that happened in it, why would you rewatch the entire movie just for one thing, when you KNOW whats gonna happen?
The movie example is dodgy
Try another example. You see women having lets say 5 kids. Kids are stressful, the process from the time of pregnancy till the time a mother dies. Pain, worry stress....and deep uncondiotnal love. Why would any woman want to go through that with more than 1 child? Why would any woman want to have a kid at all?
You have friends, many, why not just have one? one friend is all you should need. Theyll help you in times of worry, they are your friend in times of happiness, is that sense?
You have money. lets say 1 million dollars. Is that enough? Why do you keep working? Isnt it boring? Why does human always want more and more
Youve tasted chocolate before. You know what it tastes like. you know eating chocolate in excess is unhealthy but it just tastes so good. Why eat it again when you know its tastes?
See how different things can be seen?

Like say allah right now couldve made us fastfoward life for say ten years, and he made it seem as if we had a past, but we didnt get to see that past, but it seems like it did, we would have no idea what just happened, so why cant he just fastfoward it to when we come back to him??
and is that fair? Is that just? Can your body testify for or against you for something you havent done? Can you be punished for something you never actually did only thought you did? Allah is Most Just.. we have been given this time on the world with Allah knowing exactly what we will do..but giving us the free will to do it. No one forces us to believe and disbelieve. No one forces us everyday to do what we are doing. And it is fo rthat reason we are judged for our actions. Look at angels. They are totally under the submission of Allah. They do as He commands. They have no free will. And we humans, by the grace of Allah, we have been put above them in rank.

Just end all this since it all written, all ready, all judged, everything is set so why rewatch it? See for a MOVIE its for entertainment, but its only with COOL movies like hancock, but life, it aint no entertainment, and im pretty sure watching ur slaves in jannah is much more entertaining.
dont ya think????


No i dont. wouldnt you say watching slaves in jannah is not entertaining either because Allah knows even what we will do in jannah? :)
You are comparing our lives to a movie, its not a movie, its not that simple. Its a lot more than that.

another thing... Why does allah want us to worship him? What is the purpose? I know the usual replies are "Its not that he created us to worship him, its that he deserves to be worshipped" Ok i know that, but if he deserves to be worshipped then why would he create us to worship him? Does that make sense? Like em...wouldn't that mean he really did create us to worship him? So we are in this world to worship him. I get that. But WHY? Don't say because he is worthy enough for it or whatever. That answer gets old when u think alot. But WHY would allah create us to worship him
let me add more things to your whys ok? :P

Why did Allah create the sun to light up the world. Why did Allah create the sky. Why did Allah create water for us to drink? Why did Allah create animals for us to eat? Why did Allah create land for us to cultivate?

Why has man invented vacum cleaners? Why has man invented internet connection? Why do you like your favourite dress?

We have been created with purpose, we are not here on earth in vain.

Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.
Those who remember Allah (always, and in prayers) standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and think deeply about the creation of the heavens and the earth, (saying): "Our Lord! You have not created (all) this without purpose, glory to You! (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners). Give us salvation from the torment of the Fire.

3:190-191


"Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?"
23:115

And We created not the heaven and the earth and all that is between them without purpose! That is the consideration of those who disbelieve! Then woe to those who disbelieve (in Islamic Monotheism) from the Fire!
38:27

and Allah knows best.
Reply

truemuslim
07-14-2008, 12:37 AM
Sis amani your post is amazing mashallah .Jazakallah khair dear sis ! :D


format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you truemuslim,

Ok as I remember you are around 15, forgive me if I am wrong, anyway my point is this; in years to come you might marry and start a family. You already know that some children grow up and loose their faith, you know some children grow up to be murderers, rapists, robbers. Once your children are about fifteen you have very little control over them, when they grow up to be forty you have hardly any say in what they do.

If you know this why would you ever have children?

If you have ten children and two grow up to be bad what can you do?

Ok atheists will argue that human parents and God are very different, and that might be so. But it appears the choices to create or not to create life are very much the same for us and God.

In the spirit of searching for a loving and merciful God,

Eric

Yes I'm 15, and WOW, the way you just put that totally made so much sense. Thank u so much.
Reply

Eric H
07-14-2008, 07:41 AM
Gretings and peace be with you truemuslim,

Ok if my answer helped you in some small way; you might think this is because I have had forty four years longer than you to search. God is a bit older than I am, and he has had a tad longer to think about these questions too.

Tricky stuff all these questions about God, our friend Tornado is right when he says we will not find a truly satisfying answer to all our questions.

But I believe in a God who is a greatest good, and who only does things for a greatest good purpose. So when I search for an answer to something; I always try and look for a greatest good answer.

Suppose you marry and have a child, that child did not have any choice about coming into this world, that was your choice. What if your child that you love grows up to be an atheist or a Christian; despite all your best attempts to bring him up as a good Muslim.

Would you condemn your own child to a life in hell, he didn’t ask to be born?

I don’t want to put you off having children, but fairness and justice seem to hold the key questions about God.

Despite all these troublesome questions there is a need to have faith and trust that God is fair, just, loving and merciful

In the spirit of searching for a loving and merciful God

Eric
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AvarAllahNoor
07-14-2008, 11:58 AM
Everything is in Allahs hands, he knows waht is best, and he knows what isn't. We can't question his authority, we have to accept it as his will. Hence why i never ask why such and such happened.

Sab Kuch Us Ke Hath Main (All is in his hands)
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 12:46 AM
wait wait wait. that doesn't work at all.
Parents are different, they didn't create everything, they provided you with everything, everything that was ALREADY created.
Allah started from scratch, meaning he's da boss. He controls everything, however he wants.
How can it be a certain age where he suddenly can't control you? Besides he controls your death. At ANY age. Any time.

One more question...

What created allah? Stupid i know but like seriously , before allah who was there? Did allah just appear there? Like they say, everything has a designer eh? Who made allah? How did allah get to where he is? Why HIM?

Ok maybe mroe than one :D
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snakelegs
07-15-2008, 02:07 AM
true - allah da boss.
but allah was not created - he always existed, hard as that is for us to grasp.
at least that's my understanding. i think at a certain point there is a limit to our ability to understand because there are things that lie outside the realm of our experience. like eternity and such - how can we possibly conceive of eternity?
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 02:15 AM
Is it one of the things that allah has limited are knowledge to? Coz if so i understand :)
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snakelegs
07-15-2008, 02:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Is it one of the things that allah has limited are knowledge to? Coz if so i understand :)
guessing here - yes, i would say so.
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Eric H
07-15-2008, 03:00 AM
Greetings and peace be with you truemuslim,
How can it be a certain age where he suddenly can't control you?
So if a forty year old man murders someone, is the man in control of his actions, or does Allah make him commit that murder?
wait wait wait. that doesn't work at all.
Parents are different, they didn't create everything, they provided you with everything, everything that was ALREADY created.
Your mum and dad created you, you did not ask to come into this world, why should you suffer in life because of what they did?

Now compare that last statement to a question in your first post,
Why are we have to suffer for what iblis did?
Parents may not have the power and knowledge of God, but they are still faced with the same question of should we create new life, even if this child may suffer.

In the spirit of searching for a just and merciful God.

Eric
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suffiyan007
07-15-2008, 03:10 AM
the book before the Quran....was compile into one...that mean 4 in 1....so the book of torah,psalm,injeel inside Quran....so the compilation of the 1st three from the previous prophets are just incompleted mission,lotsa jews killing their prophets and dont like the people to be a followers of the prophets has been sent by Allah,so Allah Sent Muhammad in Saudi Arabia to be a confortor!....the last prophets of Allah,is the last of all human kind prophets,the the psalm,torah and injeel(bible) has been void..so the only Quran can be used still valid till end of the world!...and jews and christians...are for the people on previous centuries..so start to Convert to islam....believe in Allah who is your creator and my creator...believe Allah,the only god,my god and your god...thank!
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Amat Allah
07-15-2008, 04:19 AM
truemuslim ....why are you asking questions about somethings in the prescience....you know that you will never find the answers of your questions so why are you asking them my dear???how would I and the Other servants of Allah knew something Allah had hid it from us even from his angels and prophets salla allaho Alyhom wa sallam.....why honey....

giving us the free will is a bless from Allah and after giving us this grace ....we just disobey him ,rejecting and denying his blesses???

the one who created us and gave us and still giving us????why??who are we???

we are nothing my dear wa Allah we are nothing.....

[73] "Verily, your Lord is full of Grace for mankind, yet most of them do not give thanks."

An Namil

always wasting our time following Shaitan lies and forgeting the main purpose of being here in this world....worshiping the One who has our souls in his hand ...

[21] O you who believe! Follow not the footsteps of Shaitân (Satan). And whosoever follows the footsteps of Shaitân (Satan), then, verily he commands Al-Fahshâ' (i.e. to commit indecency (illegal sexual intercourse)) and Al-Munkar (disbelief and polytheism (i.e. to do evil and wicked deeds; and to speak or to do what is forbidden in Islâm)) And had it not been for the Grace of Allâh and His Mercy on you, not one of you would ever have been pure from sins. But Allâh purifies (guides to Islâm) whom He wills, and Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower."

An Noor

do we want to be with shaitan burnning in hell???

Allah knows who will take the paradise path and who will take hell path but you have the choice to take one of the paths and Allah will never force you........

[99] And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) then compel mankind, until they become believers."

Yonos

if I made a box ok.... made it by my self ..i am free to do what ever I want with it and no one can open his mouth and say a word If I took it burned it ,buried it or hid it...right.....

Allah is the creator of us ,he can do whatever he want to and we don`t have the right to remonstrate .....

[18] See you not that whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and Ad-Dawâb (moving (living) creatures, beasts), and many of mankind prostrate themselves to Allah. But there are many (men) on whom the punishment is justified. And whomsoever Allâh disgraces, none can honor him. Verily! Allâh does what He wills."

Al Haj

[88] Say "In Whose Hand is the sovereignty of everything (i.e. treasures of each and everything)? And He protects (all), while against Whom there is no protector, (i.e. if Allâh saves anyone none can punish or harm him, and if Allâh punishes or harms anyone none can save him), if you know?" [89] They will say: "(All that belongs) to Allâh." Say: "How then are you deceived and turn away from the truth?"

Al Muaminoon

and at the end everyone will come to Allah obedient whether we like or not...

[93] There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Gracious (Allâh) as a slave."

Maryam

do your best to deserve our Lord mercy and guidance and he will never wrong you

[69] As for those who strive hard in Us (Our Cause), We will surely guide them to Our Paths (i.e. Allâh's Religion - Islâmic Monotheism). And verily, Allâh is with the Muhsinûn (good doers)."

Al Ankaboot

we have to be patient and serve the one who created us

[65] Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, so worship Him (Alone) and be constant and patient in His worship. Do you know of any who is similar to Him? (of course none is similar or co-equal or comparable to Him, and He has none as partner with Him). (There is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer).'

Maryam

no one will enter the paradise according to his wishes but to his deeds...

[123] It will not be in accordance with your desires (Muslims), nor those of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), whosoever works evil, will have the recompense thereof, and he will not find any protector or helper besides Allâh.[124] And whoever does righteous good deeds, male or female, and is a (true) believer (in the Oneness of Allâh (Muslim)) such will enter Paradise and not the least injustice, even to the size of a speck on the back of a date-stone, will be done to them."

An Nisaa

don`t be weak and accept what Allah has given to you and what he will give..cause you will lose if you didn`t obey Allah in your comfort and difficalty as well....

[11] And among mankind is he who worships Allâh as it were, upon the edge (i.e. in doubt): if good befalls him, he is content therewith; but if a trial befalls him, he turns back on his face .He loses both this world and the Hereafter. That is the evident loss."

Al Haj

we are just wasting our time in this Dunia and never realise that the Judgement day is very very close...

[1] Draws near for mankind their reckoning, while they turn away in heedlessness.[2] Comes not unto them an admonition (a chapter of the Qur'ân) from their Lord as a recent revelation but they listen to it while they play'"

Al Anbiyaa

and believe me everything you do for Allah sake will return to you...but you have to know that Allah doesn`t need us or our worship to him ,we need to worship him to enter paradise his paradise....

he has angels worshiping him constantly and never disobey him ...

[19] To Him belongs whosoever is in the heavens and on earth. And those who are near Him (i.e. the angels) are not too proud to worship Him, nor are they weary (of His worship).[20] They (i.e. the angels) glorify His Praises night and day, (and) they never slacken (to do so)."

Al Anbiyaa

so,why are we here???to worship Allah ...and why is that???because it is Allah will and we are his creatures and do not have the right to reject and he can vanish us just like that and still have no right to say one word....

don`t let shaitan control you and dragging you with him in hell fire .just say Aotho bellah mina a shaitani Arajeem and say Adeker ,,,,you will be just fine

[97] And say: "My Lord! I seek refuge with You from the whisperings (suggestions) of the Shayâtin (devils).[98] "And I seek refuge with You, My Lord! lest they should come near me."

Al Muaminoon

...don`t waste your time asking questions has no answers......

[1] Successful indeed are the believers.[2] Those who offer their Salât (prayers) with all solemnity and full submissiveness.[3] And those who turn away from Al-Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk, falsehood, and all that Allâh has forbidden)."

Al Muaminoon


may Allah guide you my dear and purify you from all sins and protect you from shaitan and hell fire.....

Ameeeeeeeeeeeeen

I don`t want to upset you or making you sad but I do love you soooooo much and I won`t stand away watching shaitan playing with your head with out doing anything with out advicing you my precious....and the one who reminding you with Allah is the one who is really love you....many members loves you and care about you ,listen to them they are doing their best to help you honey...

may Allah forgive us all and reward us with Jannat Al ferdous while shaitan is burnning in hell....

Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen

take care and read Quraan and Adeker.....
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Amat Allah
07-15-2008, 04:24 AM
you are much stronger than shaitan ,he is under your feet...

may Allah love you....Ameeeeeeeeeeen^^
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 06:45 AM
aw thank u for ur answers, A bit clearer. but i guess im still unable to understand. god i hate me. :raging:

Btw the reason im asking all these stupid crazy questions is because i find myself clueless and goooo away. like away. like waaay out there. like totally unislamic.
you kno. music and stuff :(
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cute123
07-15-2008, 09:54 AM
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Satan comes to one of you and says, 'Who created so−and−so? 'till he says, 'Who has created your Lord?' So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such thoughts."

Sahih Bukhari : 4:496
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Eric H
07-15-2008, 11:00 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Asma Shaikh; thank you for bringing Sahih Bukhari : 4:496 into the conversation.

Greetings and peace be with you truemuslim,

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Satan comes to one of you and says, 'Who created so−and−so? 'till he says, 'Who has created your Lord?' So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such thoughts."

Sahih Bukhari : 4:496
If and only if you can accept the above then that is the best way because you put your trust in God without the full and final proof that you seek.

Once you accept Allah fully and totally, you then go on with your struggle in life, the music and stuff. I can only speak for myself but I still beat myself up when I repeatedly do the stuff I am not supposed to do. I feel at my weakest when I disobey God and ask for forgiveness after, only to repeat my mistakes all over again later.

I watch other people fight their own addictions to all the stuff they know they should not do.

We all struggle in life, you seek to be a perfect Muslim but are full of remorse when you fall short of perfection. In the end it is not down to your own efforts that you will gain salvation, rather it is down to the mercy of a loving and forgiving God, who recognises your efforts.

That can be tough to accept.

In the spirit of praying to a loving and merciful God.

Eric
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Abdul Fattah
07-15-2008, 11:15 AM
Selam aleykum truemuslim
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
ok well if allah is the all seeing all hearing knows when what is gonna happen, why and how its gonna happen then how come when iblis didnt bow down to adam allah had to see who of us will follow him? What i mean is didn't allah already know it was gonna happen?
The answer is Allah subhana wa ta'ala already knows who will fail and who will succeed, and if he wanted he could have judged us from the start. However he choose to allow us a chance to proves ourself. Why he did that? We cannot know. Perhaps it's because that is more fair? Because it sounds more just to me to punish something for what they did, as opposed to punishing someone for what they "could" do? But I don't know and Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best. Or perhaps so that we wouldn't be able to bring false excuses? I don't know and Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best. Or maybe just because the process of going through the test elevates the very statue of those destined to succeed? In other words, a person who succeeded the test is better then a person who merely has the capability of succeeding, but never actually went trough it? I don't know and Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best. Or maybe it's because going trough the test is in a way a valuable lesson at the same time? But again, I don't know and Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best.

If so, then how come he didn't stop it? And doesn't allah control everything? If so, why'd he let this happen? And couldn't allah just make shaitan disapear right there and save the big pain in de ...something??
Shaytan asked for a delay of his punishment, and Allah subhana wa ta'ala granted him this by mercy. That's why Allah subhana wa t'ala allows it. But that doesn't mean it's Allah subhana wa ta'ala his fault (astagfirAllah)! In the end, it is Shaytan that misleads us, and it is us who choose to follow his deceptions! So even though Allah subhana wa ta'ala foresaw what everyone would do, it is still the fault and responsibility of shaytan and humans. It is still our choice, and our responsibility. Allah subhana wa ta'ala just knew in advance what we would choose, that doesn't make him culpable.

And also, when you think bout it, when we get punished in the grave for our sins, or go to hell, or something, its because shaitan makes us do it, but shaitan is shaitan coz he didnt bow down to Adam, and Allah could've made non of this happen, and Allah could have made iblis not do what he did, and Also... Why are we have to suffer for what iblis did? Don't this sound a bit...schoolish? you kno, when the geek siting next to u do something and YOU get in trouble?
Don't forget that Shaytan has limited powers, he is not a god. He cannot mislead everybody. Those that shaitan can influence, are people who sinned and who Allah subhana wa ta'ala wishes to lead astray because of their actions and choices. Everything begins with a choice. And if Allah subhana wa ta'ala guides someone, nobody can lead him astray (not even shaytan himself). And if Allah allows someone to be lead astray, nobody can guide him. But Allah subhana wa ta'ala only leads astray those who deserved it. And allah has not done them wrong, instead they 've done their selves wrong. And Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best.

Hi Eric
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Once you accept Allah fully and totally, you then go on with your struggle in life, the music and stuff. I can only speak for myself but I still beat myself up when I repeatedly do the stuff I am not supposed to do. I feel at my weakest when I disobey God and ask for forgiveness after, only to repeat my mistakes all over again later.

I watch other people fight their own addictions to all the stuff they know they should not do.

We all struggle in life, you seek to be a perfect Muslim but are full of remorse when you fall short of perfection. In the end it is not down to your own efforts that you will gain salvation, rather it is down to the mercy of a loving and forgiving God, who recognises your efforts.
That can be tough to accept.
In the spirit of praying to a loving and merciful God.
I understand what you're trying to say Eric, but I see this in a completely different light. First of all, life is supposed to be a struggle, since it's a test. And a true test is longer then 5 seconds of deciding your faith and going downhill from there. In a way you could say that it is even pragmatic! This attitude of constantly trying to reach perfection, yet failing, and then feeling remorse in fact makes us better people. Of course we can't reach true perfection, but the process of trying at least helps us at being the best we can be. In fact I think that that makes a lot more sense, as opposed to what (some) Christians think, where merely accepting Jesus as savior gives you a sort of "carte blanche" to do whatever you want and in the end you'll be saved either way. It sounds fair to me, that we have to do some effort at least, rather then just laying back and relying on our beliefs to save us. Of course I grant that not all Christians believe that, and I don't want to place words in your mouth. I'm just saying, the process of trying to be as good as possible makes a lot more pragmatical sense then you suggested in your previous post! So in the end no, I don't think that this is hard to accept in correlation to believing that God is the most merciful and loving.
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Abdul Fattah
07-15-2008, 12:10 PM
Selam aleykum true muslim
Browsing teh thread I found some of your other questions,
Why do you peopel think its better to have "free will", that way you have a chance to sin, and get punished, than to be like angels and not possible for us to sin or get punished??
Well it's a double cutting sword, on one hand it is true that the risk of punishment looks like a negative charesteristic of free will, but remember that those who will be punished will deserve it, and also that they are not done wrong but instead wronged them selves. The other side of the double edged sword however is that good actions are much more valuable. those that do good, not because they are designed to do so, but rather because they want to. Wheter or not it is better or worse, is a bit hard to say. Depends on your defenition of better, by what criteria you are looking. If you measure better/worse by how hard or risky it is, then free will would be worse. If however you measure by possible payoff, then free will is actually better.

If allah already knows whats gonna happen, and controls what happens, and its all written, then why do we have to go through this life to SEE who will follow him and who will follow shaitan? Aren't the results already there? And wouldn't it be...oh i cant believe im saying this ... buut.... wouldnt it be because allah that we are being "misguided " ? I mean...since he can "control" everything that happens.
I partially answered this in my previous post I think, but still would like to add. allah subhana wa ta'ala does control everything, but he choice to give us free will and choice. And with that comes responsibility for our choices. So just because he's still in control, doesn't mean that he's responsible. I once heard this story. I'm not usually fond of such comparisons, but in this case it paints a pretty good picture:
Imagine that an engeneer builds a town; builds an electrical plant, drawsthe blueprints, constructs it and so on, then conencts the plant to all the houses and and streetlights, and makes switches to turn everthing on and off. Imagen thatthe engineer then hires someone to operate a main switch. If the operator operates the switch, who would you say is responsible for bringing light to the town? The engeneer or the operator? the operator plays a part in it, but it's the engeneer that should take most credit for brining light. However in the opposite situation, say that the operator forgot to turn the switch, who's responsible for the town being in darkness? Well obviously it's the operator's fault, and not teh engeneer's.

So that means he controlled iblis to do what he did. He controls us to obey shaitan. He controls shaitan to tempt us. He controls the non muslims not to turn to islam. He controls us to doubt islam. And He is controlling me to say things i never thought i'd say right now.
No, not exactly. The way you say it, "he controlled us" sounds as if we had no choice in the first place. It'd be more precise to say: he allowed us to choose.

wow so 99 names, can control natural disasters, can control the earth to blow up whenever he feels like it, can control when judgement day come, but cant control what we do???? Cmon !
He can control our decisions, but he chooses not to, and give us free will instead. It's not a matter of being incapable of controling us, it's a result of Allah subhana wa ta'ala his decisions.

but what i meant is why we gotta go thru this? Its liek when u see a movie, and you seein it again to see ONE certain thing that happened in it, why would you rewatch the entire movie just for one thing, when you KNOW whats gonna happen? Like say allah right now couldve made us fastfoward life for say ten years, and he made it seem as if we had a past, but we didnt get to see that past, but it seems like it did, we would have no idea what just happened, so why cant he just fastfoward it to when we come back to him??
Time is very relative. Allah subhana wa ta'al is timeless, so for him it's not an issue. For us it seems to be an issue though. And we are impatient to go trough the whole thing. But that in fact is part of the test. One of my favorite surahs is al-asr, not because it's so short, but because it's so meaningfull. Time is part of the test, it's easy to have faith for 5 minutes, the real test is having it for 50-70-90-?? years.
Just end all this since it all written, all ready, all judged, everything is set so why rewatch it? See for a MOVIE its for entertainment, but its only with COOL movies like hancock, but life, it aint no entertainment, and im pretty sure watching ur slaves in jannah is much more entertaining.
Well it's not re-happing. Just because it's written doesn't mean it already happened. there's a difference between teh two, I already made some suggestions to wh one could perhaps be better then the other in teh previous post, but in teh end that's of course speculation. In teh end I have to admit our knowledge is simply to limited to know these things. All you can do is have faith... ^_^

another thing... Why does allah want us to worship him? What is the purpose? I know the usual replies are "Its not that he created us to worship him, its that he deserves to be worshipped" Ok i know that, but if he deserves to be worshipped then why would he create us to worship him? Does that make sense? Like em...wouldn't that mean he really did create us to worship him? So we are in this world to worship him. I get that. But WHY? Don't say because he is worthy enough for it or whatever. That answer gets old when u think alot. But WHY would allah create us to worship him ?
That is one of the hardest philosophical questions I ever met within Islam, I admit. It has crossed my mind before, and again, we can only speculate. Nobody can read allah subhana wa ta'ala his intentions, unless he reveals them to us. What we do know, is as you pointed out that he is worthy, and also that he does not need our worship. That is to say that he doesn't depend on it, nor does he becomes better by it (as he's already the highest degree of perfection). In fact this ties in with a more primal question, why are we created in the first place? The answer to that question is to worship him. So until we know why Allah subhana wa ta'ala wants us to worship him, we don't really know why we are created in the first place. Maybe there's a different level to understanding "because he deserves it". Maybe what is meant by that, is not simply "he is worth of this worship". Maybe it also means "worth" in the sense of: he is entitled to it, it is due to him, he has it coming. And I know not and Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best. As for the more primal question, why are we created, some sufist have suggested that he did so for a similar reason that a painter paints or a singer sings, in other words simply because he can. However there's something wrong with that comparison. A human artist creates art to fulfill a need or desire. These could be social or psychological, like seeking acceptance and praise, or it could be a form of comping with events. Either way, there is at some level a need, whereas we know that Allah subhana wa ta'ala does not need our worship. Another suggestion would be that he created us simply for proving his characteristics. the argument goes that names like "the most mercyfull" are meaningless when there is nobody to compare to, or nobody to be mercyfull over in the first place (astagfirAllah). However again there's a problem with this argument, because again this suggest that Allah subhana wa ta'ala needed us in order to be who he is. I would think that his characteristics are intrinsic. The problem of comparison lies not with the charesteristics of Allah subhana wa ta'ala, but rather with the language used to define those charesteristics. So the argument is a folow up of a semantical issue rather then a contradictory problem with Allah subhana wa ta'al his characteristics. In fact considering this, we need to ask wheter it is not the question itself which is wrong. See the question naturally assumes that Allah subhana wa ta'ala needs a reason in order to do something. so the question itself compares Allah subhana wa ta'ala to humans (who have needs and most of the time act due to these needs). I don't know and Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best. Either way, I don't think any of this philosophical thinking will actually bring us closer to the genuine motive. And as I have showed it's dangerous because it can lead to misconceptions about the nature of Allah subhana wa ta'ala which in turn could lead to disbelief. In the end we'll have to accept that if Allah subhana wa ta'ala had a motive he wished to keep his motives hidden from us until the afterlife. And I do believe with just reason.

(Sorry for the double post, I just thought that if I edited so many new comments in in the previous post afterwards, they might have been overlooked if truemuslim read my previous post already.)
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cute123
07-15-2008, 01:22 PM
another thing... Why does allah want us to worship him? What is the purpose? I know the usual replies are "Its not that he created us to worship him, its that he deserves to be worshipped" Ok i know that, but if he deserves to be worshipped then why would he create us to worship him? Does that make sense? Like em...wouldn't that mean he really did create us to worship him? So we are in this world to worship him. I get that. But WHY? Don't say because he is worthy enough for it or whatever. That answer gets old when u think alot. But WHY would allah create us to worship him ?
u r asking the same as why does a child love a mother. the love there is between a child and a mother its the same relation between Allah subhanawatallah and us - the creations. just put the factor 'love' between u and allah tallah - inshallah everything will be clear.
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- Qatada -
07-15-2008, 01:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
:sl:

Ok well ...a quick question (another...quick question) for you...

ok well if allah is the all seeing all hearing knows when what is gonna happen, why and how its gonna happen then how come when iblis didnt bow down to adam allah had to see who of us will follow him? What i mean is didn't allah already know it was gonna happen? If so, then how come he didn't stop it? And doesn't allah control everything? If so, why'd he let this happen? And couldn't allah just make shaitan disapear right there and save the big pain in de ...something??

Allah knows all that will happen, but we dont. Allah gave men and jinn (iblis is from the jinn) the choice between good and bad. Iblis chose bad out of arrogance so he got misguided, and he promised to misguide humanity. Allah knew this, and that was something which Allah had allowed - by giving Iblis and the children of Adam the choice [of good and bad.]


Here's an explanation of destiny and our choice:


So we sometimes get the question - what's the point of our creation if God already knows what's going to happen to us?

We simply say that God knows, but He also sent us the Criterion between wrong and right, truth and falsehood, and He ordered us to believe and do good - He informed us of the consequences of doing bad. We don't know whether we are successful in the next life (even though Allah does know) - that's why we have to strive to do the good in order to recieve the good (i.e. reward and pleasure of Allah.) If we don't believe and do good, then we have been warned of its consequences (i.e. the punishments etc.)


We believe in all the guidance sent by Allah, so since He informs us that He knows the future, and that we need to believe in this to be successful - we accept that. Since He informs us that we have to be obedient to be successful - we accept that. If we believe and obey, That's what makes us successful, in this life and the next.
Why are we have to suffer for what iblis did? Don't this sound a bit...schoolish? you kno, when the geek siting next to u do something and YOU get in trouble? :D

k Jazakallah khair

Iblis and shayateen can't force us to do anything wrong, they can only make us incline to it. So he can whisper to us [waswasa] to make us think something ugly is something pretty etc. Then we have that choice to do the bad or not. Shaytan can't force us to do anything.
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07-15-2008, 01:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
what if there isn't no jannah? And what if this is all a lie? What if we were going the wrong way all along? What if ther is another religion thats right? What if islam was changed too? What happens in the end if we find out we're wrong...
I would also like an answer to this.

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07-15-2008, 03:12 PM
any1?!
Reply

truemuslim
07-15-2008, 03:21 PM
Ook bro abdul fattah. i get it . but i still got more questions now .

Shaytan asked for a delay of his punishment, and Allah subhana wa ta'ala granted him this by mercy. That's why Allah subhana wa t'ala allows it. But that doesn't mean it's Allah subhana wa ta'ala his fault (astagfirAllah)! In the end, it is Shaytan that misleads us, and it is us who choose to follow his deceptions! So even though Allah subhana wa ta'ala foresaw what everyone would do, it is still the fault and responsibility of shaytan and humans. It is still our choice, and our responsibility. Allah subhana wa ta'ala just knew in advance what we would choose, that doesn't make him culpable.
Why would allah allow shaitan to have a delay for his punishment so that he can lead everyone else astray??

Don't forget that Shaytan has limited powers, he is not a god. He cannot mislead everybody. Those that shaitan can influence, are people who sinned and who Allah subhana wa ta'ala wishes to lead astray because of their actions and choices. Everything begins with a choice. And if Allah subhana wa ta'ala guides someone, nobody can lead him astray (not even shaytan himself). And if Allah allows someone to be lead astray, nobody can guide him. But Allah subhana wa ta'ala only leads astray those who deserved it. And allah has not done them wrong, instead they 've done their selves wrong. And Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best.
Thats what i was asking. why would allah lead people astray?? He could guide everyone, besides isn't it the shaitans job to lead people out der?? :X

I partially answered this in my previous post I think, but still would like to add. allah subhana wa ta'ala does control everything, but he choice to give us free will and choice. And with that comes responsibility for our choices. So just because he's still in control, doesn't mean that he's responsible. I once heard this story. I'm not usually fond of such comparisons, but in this case it paints a pretty good picture:
Imagine that an engeneer builds a town; builds an electrical plant, drawsthe blueprints, constructs it and so on, then conencts the plant to all the houses and and streetlights, and makes switches to turn everthing on and off. Imagen thatthe engineer then hires someone to operate a main switch. If the operator operates the switch, who would you say is responsible for bringing light to the town? The engeneer or the operator? the operator plays a part in it, but it's the engeneer that should take most credit for brining light. However in the opposite situation, say that the operator forgot to turn the switch, who's responsible for the town being in darkness? Well obviously it's the operator's fault, and not teh engeneer's.
Yes but the engineer isnt the all seeing all hearing all controlling all creating now is he? He didn't even create the operator! Unless he had a 9mm up to his head, he had NO control of him. Just the stuff he created.

No, not exactly. The way you say it, "he controlled us" sounds as if we had no choice in the first place. It'd be more precise to say: he allowed us to choose, Under his control.
He can control our decisions, but he chooses not to, and give us free will instead. It's not a matter of being incapable of controling us, it's a result of Allah subhana wa ta'ala his decisions.
Can't be sure bout that :D


Well it's not re-happing. Just because it's written doesn't mean it already happened. there's a difference between teh two, I already made some suggestions to wh one could perhaps be better then the other in teh previous post, but in teh end that's of course speculation. In teh end I have to admit our knowledge is simply to limited to know these things. All you can do is have faith... ^_^
I didn't say its rehappening. I said he already knows whats gonna happen. after all he created this life and what happens in it. What you think he is keeping it to surprise himself? :p

That is one of the hardest philosophical questions I ever met within Islam, I admit. It has crossed my mind before, and again, we can only speculate. Nobody can read allah subhana wa ta'ala his intentions, unless he reveals them to us. What we do know, is as you pointed out that he is worthy, and also that he does not need our worship. That is to say that he doesn't depend on it, nor does he becomes better by it (as he's already the highest degree of perfection). In fact this ties in with a more primal question, why are we created in the first place? The answer to that question is to worship him. So until we know why Allah subhana wa ta'ala wants us to worship him, we don't really know why we are created in the first place. Maybe there's a different level to understanding "because he deserves it". Maybe what is meant by that, is not simply "he is worth of this worship". Maybe it also means "worth" in the sense of: he is entitled to it, it is due to him, he has it coming. And I know not and Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best. As for the more primal question, why are we created, some sufist have suggested that he did so for a similar reason that a painter paints or a singer sings, in other words simply because he can. However there's something wrong with that comparison. A human artist creates art to fulfill a need or desire. These could be social or psychological, like seeking acceptance and praise, or it could be a form of comping with events. Either way, there is at some level a need, whereas we know that Allah subhana wa ta'ala does not need our worship. Another suggestion would be that he created us simply for proving his characteristics. the argument goes that names like "the most mercyfull" are meaningless when there is nobody to compare to, or nobody to be mercyfull over in the first place (astagfirAllah). However again there's a problem with this argument, because again this suggest that Allah subhana wa ta'ala needed us in order to be who he is. I would think that his characteristics are intrinsic. The problem of comparison lies not with the charesteristics of Allah subhana wa ta'ala, but rather with the language used to define those charesteristics. So the argument is a folow up of a semantical issue rather then a contradictory problem with Allah subhana wa ta'al his characteristics. In fact considering this, we need to ask wheter it is not the question itself which is wrong. See the question naturally assumes that Allah subhana wa ta'ala needs a reason in order to do something. so the question itself compares Allah subhana wa ta'ala to humans (who have needs and most of the time act due to these needs). I don't know and Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best.
A painter paints to feel better bout his skills or something. Or to get caash. but Allah can get whatever he wants whenever he wants. HE is the one that gives it to you! Besides do you think Allah created us in order to be able to blush when we worship him??

Either way, I don't think any of this philosophical thinking will actually bring us closer to the genuine motive. And as I have showed it's dangerous because it can lead to misconceptions about the nature of Allah subhana wa ta'ala which in turn could lead to disbelief. In the end we'll have to accept that if Allah subhana wa ta'ala had a motive he wished to keep his motives hidden from us until the afterlife. And I do believe with just reason.
Yah but when ur clueless and have many questions without answers you can't believe in islam 100%, not even 80%! :upset:
Besides if islam has all the answers why would they be unable to be answered? Instead one little questions causes more thinking and more questions which all leads to the same thing....more doubt.
And another thing. what if its wrong? How can we except something like this and it could be completely wrong or untrue?? Thats why im asking these. Incase im wrong. Misleaded. Clueless. Faithless. or all those together.

Asma Shiekh:
u r asking the same as why does a child love a mother. the love there is between a child and a mother its the same relation between Allah subhanawatallah and us - the creations. just put the factor 'love' between u and allah tallah - inshallah everything will be clear.
Yeh but allah has control over everything. Your mother doesn't. Your mother helps you be guided. But she didn't create everything around you and YOU completely. Thats what Allah did. Thats the control allah has.

Bro Qatada - That leads me to another question...WHO misguided shaitan???
Nobody had control over him...eeexcept..ahem..ahem...coughallahcough. :D


Jazakumallah khairan for all ur answers btw. Whenever you don't wanna do this just leave/dont post again. Coz i think this is going to go on forever and ever :)
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07-15-2008, 03:25 PM
Nobody had control over him...eeexcept..ahem..ahem...coughallahcough.
i realise u got questions yeh, so do i, but wallahi dis is just being disrespectful to Allaah, so hav sum respect n dat yeh

sfe
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Ali.
07-15-2008, 03:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -
any1?!
I'm sure you've seen many proofs of Islam, no?
This is the decision you have to make, you have to research all religions and decide on which one you think is truth.
The Qur'an... the complex Arabic is contains, no mistake whatsoever, do you think man could have written it?
And if you think man did, then try and write 10 verses of it. I'm serious, give it a try.
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 03:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -

i realise u got questions yeh, so do i, but wallahi dis is just being disrespectful to Allaah, so hav sum respect n dat yeh

sfe

lol how it bein disrespectfull? Was it the way i sayd it ? if so , i didnt mean it however u thought it :embarrass
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Ali.
07-15-2008, 03:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
lol how it bein disrespectfull? Was it the way i sayd it ? if so , i didnt mean it however u thought it :embarrass
Also, you, you seem to be not taking what anybody has to say, no offense. Why can't Allah control someone when he's 40, you say? I explained this on like page 2 it's because he gave us conscience to think for ourselves and that is the test.
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 03:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ali.
Also, you, you seem to be not taking what anybody has to say, no offense. Why can't Allah control someone when he's 40, you say? I explained this on like page 2 it's because he gave us conscience to think for ourselves and that is the test.
nah every answer pretty much leads me to more questions. dats all.
Btw, who control our conscience?
A.L.L.A.H. :D
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Ali.
07-15-2008, 03:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
nah every answer pretty much leads me to more questions. dats all.
Btw, who control our conscience?
A.L.L.A.H. :D
Do you even know what conscience is?
It gives you thinking ability to think through choices, options, to decide what is right what is wrong, something animals don't have for example.

So Allah (Swt) gave us our conscience while creating us, but we have to put that conscience to good use insha'Allah.
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 03:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ali.
Do you even know what conscience is?
It gives you thinking ability to think through choices, options, to decide what is right what is wrong, something animals don't have for example.

So Allah (Swt) gave us our conscience while creating us, but we have to put that conscience to good use insha'Allah.
Yah i kno.
But cmon do you seriously think allah will create us, and create everything about us, then not do anything but watch us disobey him?
And animals are lucky den arnt they.
They dont have to be near shaitan. they just live there life, and get jannah after....i think. :D
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Ali.
07-15-2008, 03:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Yah i kno.
But cmon do you seriously think allah will create us, and create everything about us, then not do anything but watch us disobey him?
Erm, this Qur'an verse comes to mind:

The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind, yet most of mankind know not.
(40:57)

How do you know He hasn't created more? On the other side of the universe? Ever looked out into the sky at night and become mesmerised by the stars? What else, apart from us, could lurk there?
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 03:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ali.
Erm, this Qur'an verse comes to mind:

The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind, yet most of mankind know not.
(40:57)

How do you know He hasn't created more? On the other side of the universe? Ever looked out into the sky at night and become mesmerised by the stars? What else, apart from us, could lurk there?

I don't get it :embarrass

Are you saying he's too busy to do stuff here because he's workin on the other side?
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Ali.
07-15-2008, 03:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
I don't get it :embarrass

Are you saying he's too busy to do stuff here because he's workin on the other side?
No, you said "so Allah created us to watch us disobey him."

How do you know we're all He's created?
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 03:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ali.
No, you said "so Allah created us to watch us disobey him."

How do you know we're all He's created?

So you mean theres could be more livin stuff back there or did you not get the point? :embarrass:embarrass
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Ali.
07-15-2008, 04:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
So you mean theres could be more livin stuff back there or did you not get the point? :embarrass:embarrass
The way that verse has been put, yes it seems there is more out there in the universe, but Allahu A'lim. So what you said about Allah creating us and watchin us disbelieve is wrong. Again, Allahu A'lim.

I think you should forget about this and think about it in half a year or something, you seem totally confused.
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07-15-2008, 04:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Yah i kno.
But cmon do you seriously think allah will create us, and create everything about us, then not do anything but watch us disobey him?
And animals are lucky den arnt they.
They dont have to be near shaitan. they just live there life, and get jannah after....i think.
:D
no they dont

they get turned into dust on the Day of Judgement, after Judgement is over.
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 04:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ali.
The way that verse has been put, yes it seems there is more out there in the universe, but Allahu A'lim. So what you said about Allah creating us and watchin us disbelieve is wrong. Again, Allahu A'lim.

I think you should forget about this and think about it in half a year or something, you seem totally confused.
Yah but allah can take it. He created it he can defidently handle it.
Did Allah lose control of us and the shaitan?

noway. I would be converted out if i wait :rolleyes:
Why wait. Won't change nothing. besides nobody knows how long they gna live yo! (except allah)
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 04:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -

no they dont

they get turned into dust on the Day of Judgement, after Judgement is over.

Better than being burnt to dust :D
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Ali.
07-15-2008, 04:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Yah but allah can take it. He created it he can defidently handle it.
Did Allah lose control of us and the shaitan?

noway. I would be converted out if i wait :rolleyes:
Why wait. Won't change nothing. besides nobody knows how long they gna live yo! (except allah)
Everything is getting so repetetive now. Forget about it. Come back to it in half a year, or a year, whatever suits you. You're confusing yourself, let your mind calm and then come back to think about it insha'Allah with a clear mind.
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07-15-2008, 04:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Better than being burnt to dust :D
point. i wud rather be a stone/leaf/flower/angel, that constantly praise Allaah and do not sin
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 04:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ali.
Everything is getting so repetetive now. Forget about it. Come back to it in half a year, or a year, whatever suits you. You're confusing yourself, let your mind calm and then come back to think about it insha'Allah with a clear mind. And much more questions
Besides What if i die :D
Faithless. and punished.
Better sooner than later.


format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -
point. i wud rather be a stone/leaf/flower/angel, that constantly praise Allaah and do not sin
lool sis i kno, That was my point somewhere back in this thread.
If allah could've just created us like he created all the other things, unable to sin, just obey allah 24/7 then not have to be punished. Coz its like the people of the dunya. They think they got everything now, then in the end they get punished. OR they can get everything halal now, and obey allah, and not sin not once, and then get jannah , better than being punished because we risked to care about having "free" will....a.k.a. Punishable Will.
As if its our choice tho
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Ali.
07-15-2008, 04:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Besides What if i die :D
Ask Allah (swt) insha'Allah...

Better sooner than later.
Wrong. In this situation I believe it is better later with a clear and understanding head, refreshed from the past.
Reply

TrueStranger
07-15-2008, 04:44 PM
:sl: TrueMuslim

In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful

This is going to be a long post, so embrace yourself. I am trying my best with the help of Allah.

Ok well ...a quick question (another...quick question) for you...

ok well if allah is the all seeing all hearing knows when what is gonna happen, why and how its gonna happen then how come when iblis didnt bow down to adam allah had to see who of us will follow him?

Iblis disobeyed Allah when he refused to prostrate to Adam.

In The Noble Qur'an Surah Al-A'raf Verse 7:11-18 it is stated:

11. And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Iblîs (Satan), he refused to be of those who prostrate.

12. (Allâh) said: "What prevented you (O Iblîs) that you did not prostrate, when I commanded you?" Iblîs said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay."

13. (Allâh) said: "(O Iblîs) get down from this (Paradise), it is not for you to be arrogant here. Get out, for you are of those humiliated and disgraced."

14. (Iblîs) said: "Allow me respite till the Day they are raised up (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)."

15. (Allâh) said: "You are of those allowed respite."

16. (Iblîs) said: "Because You have sent me astray, surely I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your Straight Path.

17. Then I will come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and from their left, and You will not find most of them as thankful ones (i.e. they will not be dutiful to You)."

18. (Allâh) said (to Iblîs) "Get out from this (Paradise) disgraced and expelled. Whoever of them (mankind) will follow you, then surely I will fill Hell with you all."

Allah also said in Surah Surah Al-A'raf to Adam (PBUH)

7-19. "And O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in Paradise, and eat thereof as you both wish, but approach not this tree otherwise you both will be of the Zâlimûn (unjust and wrong¬doers)."

20. Then Shaitân (Satan) whispered suggestions to them both in order to uncover that which was hidden from them of their private parts (before); he said: "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree save you should become angels or become of the immortals."

21. And he [Shaitân (Satan)] swore by Allâh to them both (saying): "Verily, I am one of the sincere well¬wishers for you both."

22. So he misled them with deception. Then when they tasted of the tree, that which was hidden from them of their shame (private parts) became manifest to them and they began to stick together the leaves of Paradise over themselves (in order to cover their shame). And their Lord called out to them (saying): "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you: Verily, Shaitân (Satan) is an open enemy unto you?"

23. They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers."

24. (Allâh) said: "Get down, one of you an enemy to the other [i.e. Adam, Hawwa (Eve), and Shaitân (Satan), etc.]. On earth will be a dwelling¬place for you and an enjoyment, - for a time."

25. He said: "Therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out (i.e.resurrected)."


Adam was thrown out of Paradise for eating the forbidden tree. And after seeing his mistake, Adam and Hawa asked for forgiveness, and Allah forgave them.


And then Allah warns us by saying in Surah Al-A'raf

26. O Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover yourselves (screen your private parts, etc.) and as an adornment, and the raiment of righteousness, that is better. Such are among the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, that they may remember (i.e. leave falsehood and follow truth[]).

27. O Children of Adam! Let not Shaitân (Satan) deceive you, as he got your parents [Adam and Hawwa (Eve)] out of Paradise, stripping them of their raiments, to show them their private parts. Verily, he and Qabîluhu (his soldiers from the jinns or his tribe) see you from where you cannot see them. Verily, We made the Shayâtin (devils) Auliyâ' (protectors and helpers) for those who believe not.


What i mean is didn't allah already know it was gonna happen?
Yes, Allah knows what it was going to happen.

2:30. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allâh) said: "I know that which you do not know."


Allah knew that Iblis will not bow down, but the angels didn’t know that,

2:33 He said: "O Adam! Inform them of their names," and when he had informed them of their names, He said: "Did I not tell you that I know the Ghaib (unseen) in the heavens and the earth, and I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing?"



2:34. And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam.". And they prostrated except Iblîs (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allâh).


Iblis has been concealing his hate for Adam, but the All-Knowing All-hearing was well aware of it, and when he was ordered to prostrate to Adam his pride and disobedient to Allah was in full display for everyone to see.


If so, then how come he didn't stop it?
Are you questioning Allah?

And doesn't allah control everything?
Yes, dear.

If so, why'd he let this happen?
Because it is His Will.

And couldn't allah just make shaitan disapear right there and save the big pain in de ...something??
yes, Allah could do as He Wills, but Allah does NOT BREAK HIS PROMISE

14. (Iblîs) said: "Allow me respite till the Day they are raised up (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)."
15. (Allâh) said: "You are of those allowed respite."



And also, when you think bout it, when we get punished in the grave for our sins, or go to hell, or something, its because shaitan makes us do it, but shaitan is shaitan coz he didnt bow down to Adam, and Allah could've made non of this happen, and Allah could have made iblis not do what he did, and Also...
You can’t blame all your disobedience on Satan, no my friend. Satan is nothing more than mere whispers, while you are the one who carries out the actions. Be consistence in prayers, the Quran, and the Sunnah. You are being punished not because of Satan’s sin, but because you choice to follow him after Allah has warned you about Satan.


7:16. (Iblîs) said: "Because You have sent me astray, surely I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your Straight Path.

7:17. Then I will come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and from their left, and You will not find most of them as thankful ones (i.e. they will not be dutiful to You)."

7: 27. O Children of Adam! Let not Shaitân (Satan) deceive you, as he got your parents [Adam and Hawwa (Eve)] out of Paradise, stripping them of their raiments, to show them their private parts. Verily, he and Qabîluhu (his soldiers from the jinns or his tribe) see you from where you cannot see them. Verily, We made the Shayâtin (devils) Auliyâ' (protectors and helpers) for those who believe not.



Why are we have to suffer for what iblis did? Don't this sound a bit...schoolish? you kno, when the geek siting next to u do something and YOU get in trouble?
What do you mean by we? Are you counting yourself as those who are following satan, for none shall be punished except those who follow Satan.


7:18. (Allâh) said (to Iblîs) "Get out from this (Paradise) disgraced and expelled. Whoever of them (mankind) will follow you, then surely I will fill Hell with you all."


You are not suffering, say Alhamdu’illah, you are being tested, and second of all you will not be held accountable for what Iblis or Adam(PBUH) has did, but rather your own actions and deeds. Adam was tested, and he failed, but Adam (PBUH) asked for forgiveness, and Allah forgave him.

2:37. Then Adam received from his Lord Words. And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful.


The path of forgiveness is open to us, let not Satan deceive you. Ask Allah to always guide you down the righteous path and be of those who are thankful and dutiful to Allah by following the Quran and Sunnah.

May Allah forgive me if I have made any mistakes unintentionally. imsad.

We are all in need of guidance. May Allah guides us till the last day, for none can misguide those whom Allah guides.

http://muttaqun.com/adam.html

:w:
Reply

TrueStranger
07-15-2008, 04:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Haha, forgive me you are going through exactly what I went through once before. The worse doubts hit me when I was praying one day at night. I battled with myself for a while and in the end kept on believing. Now, I am more clearheaded and I can see that I was being foolish before and Allah was testing me. And I can honestly say that I think I passed! ( taht one atleast hehe)

Anyways, religion is not fake. We live in trying times with atheists and kuffars running everywhere influencing us at every turn. Allah has granted us the blessing of this test. It is a blessing in that I think Allah felt that we were up to the challenge. No soul is burdened beyond what it can take. In short, chill, do something relaxing and keep on believing. The Prophet may have been speaking about our wretched time when he said this


The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

“Some people will come on the Day of Judgement and their Imaan will be outstanding, it’s light will shine from their chests and from their right hands. So it will be said to them, ‘Glad tidings for you today, Assalamu ‘alaikum and Goodness for you, Enter into it (Jannah) forever!’ So the Angels and the Prophets will be jealous of the Love of Allah for them.”

So the Sahabah asked, “Who are they, Ya Rasoolullah?” He (sallahu ‘alayhi wasalam) replied, “They are not from us and they are not from you. You are my companions but they are my beloved. They will come after you and will find the Book (the Qur’an) made redundant by the people, and a Sunnah which has been killed by them. So they will grab hold of the Book and the Sunnah and revive them. So they read them and teach them (the Qur’an and the Sunnah) to the people and they will experience in that path a punishment more severe and more ugly than what you (O Sahabah) have experienced. Indeed the Imaan of one of them is equivalent to the Imaan of forty of you. The Shaheed of one of them is equivalent to forty of your Shuhadaa’. Because you found a helper towards the truth (the Prophet) and they will find no helper towards the truth. So they will be surrounded by tyrant rulers in every place, and they will be in the surroundings of Baitul-Maqdis (Al-Quds, Masjid al-Aqsa). The Nussrah (Help and Victory) of Allah will come to them, and they will have the honour of it on their hands.” Then he (sallahu ‘alayhi wasalam) said, “O Allah, give them the Nussrah and make them my close friends in Jannah.”

- Reported by Ahmad:

Does the hadith mean the Palestinians??? What a lucky lot, may Allah help them.
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Abdul Fattah
07-15-2008, 06:31 PM
Selam aleykum
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
Why would allah allow shaitan to have a delay for his punishment so that he can lead everyone else astray??
Because he asked for it, and because Allah subhana wa ta'ala is the most mercifull. How about turning the question around, why wouldn't Allah subhana wa ta'ala have granted him? Afterall, he will only mislead those that deserve it, so what's the "damage"? I know this sounds harsh to those who will be punished, but this sadly is reality.

Thats what i was asking. why would Allah lead people astray?? He could guide everyone, besides isn't it the shaitans job to lead people out der?? :X
Because Allah subhana wa ta'ala is the most just, and it wouldn't be just to treat the bad equal to the good. The blind are not equal to the seeing, the dead are not equal to living, those are some comparisons made in the Qur'an. It wouldn't be fair towards the faithful even even the wicked would be guided, they simply don't deserve it. Opposition is a crucial part of duality.

Yes but the engineer isnt the all seeing all hearing all controlling all creating now is he? He didn't even create the operator! Unless he had a 9mm up to his head, he had NO control of him. Just the stuff he created.
Yes in that the analogy is flawed, that is why I said prior to telling teh story that I don't like analogies, however even though it is flawed in that are, the message stays intact. The message of it being that free will comes bundled with responsibility. And that if we mess up with our free will, it's our fault, and not our creators fault. The argument here isn't that we were created without a choice. The argument here is that we were created with choice despite that our creator knew some of us would end up making the wrong choice! This is very twisted. If predestination doesn't negate free will, it shouldn't negate responsibility either. Just because God knew in advance, doesn't mean it isn't our choice and our responsibility. This is in fact the other side of the free-will-coin. Free will comes hand in hand with responsibility, and trying to push responsibility to our creator, is in a way rejecting free will, not denying it. The argument is not saying "I don't have it", but rather saying: "I don't want it".

No, not exactly. The way you say it, "he controlled us" sounds as if we had no choice in the first place. It'd be more precise to say: he allowed us to choose, Under his control.
He can control our decisions, but he chooses not to, and give us free will instead. It's not a matter of being incapable of controling us, it's a result of Allah subhana wa ta'ala his decisions.
Can't be sure bout that
I don't see why not. It makes perfect sense. Let me run it down one last time just to be sure.
1. Allah choses to create us with free will.
2. We use that free will to make our own choices.
3. Allah enables us to do what we choice, in consistency with his prior decision to give us free will.
So when you say you can't be sure, you mean you can't be sure this is what Islam claims, or you mean you can't be sure if Islam is right on this? If it's the later, then I don't get your question.

I didn't say its rehappening. I said he already knows whats gonna happen. after all he created this life and what happens in it. What you think he is keeping it to surprise himself? :p
Please refrain from making it into a mockery. Anyway, like I already said Allah subhana wa ta'ala has no need for it. And I already answered this question in my first post. There a difference in knowing what will happen, and knowing what did happen.

A painter paints to feel better bout his skills or something. Or to get caash. but Allah can get whatever he wants whenever he wants. HE is the one that gives it to you! Besides do you think Allah created us in order to be able to blush when we worship him??
You don't have to tell me that, I already said myself that this analogy is flawed because of that. You're just repeating to me in an argument what I already said, please pay more attention. :rollseyes:

Yah but when ur clueless and have many questions without answers you can't believe in islam 100%, not even 80%! :upset:
I don't see how these questions can interfere with faith. It is not as if they are pointing out to any inconsistency. The only they show is that we don't know everything. there isn't a single indication in this last question that Islam would be false. this last question is not a matter of faith but rather a matter of curiosity.

Besides if islam has all the answers why would they be unable to be answered?
Islam does have an answer to every question, in fact you even mentioned the answer while you were asking it! The problem however is that you aren't satisfied with the answer. So it's not a case of Islam not answering your question, it's a case of you not being happy with your answer. No offense.

Instead one little questions causes more thinking and more questions which all leads to the same thing....more doubt
That is because Shaytain feed on these matters to spread confusion. I already answered your questions, if you still have doubt, the doubts come from another place, and not from these questions as they should be resolved by now.

And another thing. what if its wrong? How can we except something like this and it could be completely wrong or untrue?? Thats why im asking these. Incase im wrong. Misleaded. Clueless. Faithless. or all those together.
How can you except it? I would reverse it, how can you not accept it? Not a single person on earth has guarantees that his/her views are right/wrong. everybody has his/her own reasons why they follow faith X or faith Y. For me personally, I simply try to follow what I think makes most sense. And thats why I believe in Islam, because to me, that view makes most sense at all. Of course their are questions that I can't answer, like why does Allah want us to worship us. But that doesn't indicate the view is wrong. In fact in a way it even makes sense within that view that we can't answer everything. And Similar questions are left unanswered in every alternative view. So changing views won't solve your problem. Like I said, all you can do is accept that some things are simply beyond our knowledge. And that has nothing to do with silencing questions or covering up flaws. Because like I said these questions are universal to every viewpoint. Perhaps in the atheist or agnostic viewpoint you'll have to tweak the question a bit, but trust me, even there it can't be answered. This is something that is simply beyond the scope of any viewpoint. Questioning things leads to knowledge, since after questioning you ponder and conclude. However questioning in extremity will obstruct knowledge, cause every conclusion you'll make will be yet again questioned. To keep things practical and sane, we're forced to at some point make a choice. Like I said, it all starts with a choice. And you build up from there. things starting to make sense yet? :)

That leads me to another question...WHO misguided shaitan???
Nobody had control over him...eeexcept..ahem..ahem...coughallahcough. :D
shaytain thought he knew better and disagreed with Allah subhana wa ta'ala.
Shaytain was misguided by his own vanity. He trusted his own intelligence more than he trusted Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Vanity is a form of shirk, because you place yourself as partner of Allah. You seem to suggest that poeple (or in this case djinns) can only make mistakes when someone misguides them. Like I said it all starts with a choice.

I hope this answers your question, may Allah subhana wa t'ala guide you to the right path, and may he protect you from the confusion that Shaytan likes to spread in our minds.
Reply

truemuslim
07-15-2008, 07:03 PM
Ahh, Finally i got the answers. Unconfusing. And dont lead to more questions. Jazakallah khair brother Abdul fattah. The way you put everything just makes so much sense. And thank u sis truestranger.
Jazakumallah khair.

I will wait on the other questions. And on the questions i don't think i got the answers for.

:)
Reply

Abdul Fattah
07-15-2008, 08:32 PM
Selam aleykum
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
will wait on the other questions. And on the questions i don't think i got the answers for.
I'm glad to hear that's sorted then, as for the other questions, you mean questions in the future, or questions that you already posted but that I've overlooked? Well don't be afraid to ask =)
Reply

Woodrow
07-15-2008, 09:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -
point. i wud rather be a stone/leaf/flower/angel, that constantly praise Allaah and do not sin
On the surface that sounds ideal. There is no doubt that the Angels are wonderfull creations and do enjoy eternal bliss. But, us humans can appreciate the bliss as we have also experienced pain,loss and sorrow. We are creatures that can reach a higher degree of happiness because we fully know what it means to be sad.

Above all we know our love of Allaah(swt) is by our own choice and that we do not have to give it. However, it would be very ungratefull not to give it and that may not be a wise choice.
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truemuslim
07-15-2008, 10:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah
Selam aleykum

I'm glad to hear that's sorted then, as for the other questions, you mean questions in the future, or questions that you already posted but that I've overlooked? Well don't be afraid to ask =)

Yah i mean questions i haven't asked. Have asked. Or might later on ask.
:embarrass
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cute123
07-16-2008, 06:56 AM
the basic factor in all your posts is sis u lack trust in Allah Subhana wa tallah. and u think that shaitan is the one who is making u do it. and allah tallah (astgfirullah) is the one who is allowing him to do it (making u listen to music etc) and hence finally u will go land up in hell.
u need to accept this fact that there is a way through which we have to go. its all but natural. born-death-barzakh-day of resurrection. He is the one who created us and you do not have any right to ask HIM why is He doing it. if He killed us without reason and if He threw us in Hell without reason - noone can ask HIM why he did it. He is the owner - the ultimate owner.leave shaitan alone aside. but look at HIS mercy. The disbelievers the one who deny (astagfiruallah) the one who deny HIS existence - HE does not snatch their lives. and if they pay the jizyah to the mulim rulers they are to be protected.
/----------------------------------/

Yusuf bin Al-Husain is the narrator of this story:

I was with Dhi-an-Nun on the edge of a stream, when we saw an extraordinarily large lizard crawling along the side of the stream. Something strange yet wonderful then happened. A frog surfaced from the stream, the lizard mounted its back, and the frog then swam to the other side of the stream, carrying its passenger on its back.

Dhi-an-Nun said, "There is something interesting about that lizard let us go and follow it." We crossed the stream (which wasn't so wide in width), and on the other side, we saw a drunken man who had passed out. Suddenly, a snake appeared before the prone body of the drunkard. It slithered its way up to the man's navel to his chest, making a direct course to one of his ears.
The lizard we saw earlier then sprang into action. It jumped onto the snake and struck it violently, splitting its body into two. Returning to the edge of the stream, the lizard then mounted the frog again, and the two crossed to the other side of the stream, though both were still visible to us. Dhi-an-Nun woke up the drunkard, who slowly opened his eyes and became conscious of what was happening around him. Dhi-an-Nun said, "O young man, look how Allah has saved you! When this snake came to kill you, that lizard came and killed it. He then eplained the entire story to the young man.

The young man stood up and exclaimed: "O my lord, this is how you deal with one who disobeys you, then what will your mercy be like for the one who obeys you?" He then betook himself to the desert, vowing to dedicate his life to worship and to never return to the evils of the city.


The above is taken from "The Stories of Repentence" published by dar-us-salam/-----------------------------------/


u want to find HIM no one can stop you, u want to run away no one can stop u- dont hold shaitan responsible for that - its very clear that the questions that u r asking is nothing but waswaas . dont forget that he can see what we cant. but still he was commanded to postray adam (alaihis salam) - a man.
ok the logical question why is shaitan so much after putting the people away from worshipping Allah Tallah, because he knows - if they simply follow and if allowed to follow they will naturally worship HIM and naturally love HIM - its Natural which allah Tallah bestowed on us. we find it difficult coz we have gone away from it. wrong culture, no arabic, away from the sahabas.
And Morever Allah Tallah is quiet because He knows -those people who are firm shaitan cannot do anything with them. As He knows everything. those people who do not deserve paradise are thrown in Hell. Mind u the criteria is very just and very just. one speck of imaan and u r saved from Hell.
u dont need to think so much - its useless. very simple u follow this truth that is the way - shaitan is the obstacle but if you fear Allah he is nothing.

the last thing is you asked - what if there is no paradise and if there is altogether a different religion . i ask you what if at the time of your death you realize that this is the truth and i should have followed this truth . and with this concept of yours that shaitan deceived me- you will tell Allah
tallah - that i didnt do anything shaitan deceived me.

Allah Tallah already states this in quraan.

(And Shaytan will say when the matter has been decided: "Verily, Allah promised you a promise of truth. And I too promised you, but I betrayed you. I had no authority over you except that I called you, and you responded to me. So blame me not, but blame yourselves. I cannot help you, nor can you help me. I deny your former act in associating me as a partner with Allah. Verily, there is a painful torment for the wrongdoers.'') (14:22)

((Allah) will say: "Dispute not in front of Me.'') The Lord, the Exalted and Most Honored will say this to the man and his devil companion, who will be disputing before Him. The man will say, "O, Lord! This devil has misguided me away from the Remembrance after it came to me,'' while the devil will declare,

(I had already in advance sent you the threat.) `I have given you sufficient proof by the words of the Messengers, and I have sent down the Divine Books; the evidences, signs and proofs have thus been established against you

(The Sentence that comes from Me cannot be changed, ) "I have made My decision,''

(And I am not unjust to the servants.) `I will not punish anyone, except on account of their sins after the proof has been established against them.

Surah Qaf 50: (27to 29)
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