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Uthman
07-12-2008, 10:08 PM
By Jyotsna Singh
BBC News, Ajmer, Rajasthan


Hindus and Muslims have co-existed within the same family for centuries

Forty-two-year-old Sohan Singh is delighted to call himself a "full-fledged" Hindu.

Recently he cremated his mother, defying a family tradition of burying their dead.

Mr Singh is a member of the Kathat community in Rajasthan and follows what his community believes is a pledge undertaken by their forefathers.

Legend has it that the Mehrat, Kathat and Cheeta communities - with a combined total of one million people in four districts of central Rajasthan - are the descendants of the Hindu ruler of the warrior caste, Prithviraj Chauhan.

The three communities also have strong Islamic connections, because many centuries ago, their forefathers undertook a pledge to follow three Muslim practices.

These include the circumcision for the newborn male children in the community, eating halal meat and burying their dead.

That is the tradition many have followed, keeping the word of their ancestors. But it has also led to them facing something of a faith-based identity crisis.

Mixed identity


At a bustling market in Masuda town, a large number of people from the Mehrat community gather every day.

A majority of them are poor and illiterate. They are people with a mixed Hindu-Muslim identity. And left alone, that is how they would like to be.

Deepa, 60, has a Hindu name but he thinks he is a Muslim because he follows Muslim practices.

"In my family, we celebrate Hindu festivals such as Holi and Diwali. But we also offer namaz (prayers) at (the Muslim festival of) Eid. We worship both local gods and Allah. This has been a tradition in my family. I do not know whether my ancestors were Hindus or Muslims."


Mange Ram was a staunch Hindu, but he is a Muslim now

Another Mehrat member is Mahendra Singh who has a Hindu name.

"We don't care about being Hindu or Muslim. It is sheer politics," he says.

Barely, 15km (9 miles) from Byawar town, Rasool runs a tea shop. He says his great grandparents were Hindus. But somewhere along the line, they became Muslims.

"It wasn't such a big deal to be Hindu or Muslim," says Rasool. His son Shankar is named after a Hindu god but he says they consider themselves Muslims.

"We are clearly Muslims. Only one of my three sons has a wrong (Hindu) name. It's too late to change that. But it won't happen again in our family," says Madeena, Shankar's wife.

For 65-year-old Shanta - like many others in this area - religion has become an issue.

She has many relatives who are Muslims. But her son-in-law is associated with the Hindu hardline group, Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP) and her decision to declare herself a Hindu has alienated her from many relatives.

"My son wonders, why are we born in this community where there is so much confusion? I have told my son to cremate me as Hindus would their dead. My relatives boycott us, but that's alright. I think our ancestors were forced to convert to Islam. We have to correct that," Shanta says.

'Homecoming'


Organisations such as the VHP say they are trying to end this confusion in the lives of the community by making them realise their true identity.

The group has organised several mass conversion events in the area in the past years under a programme called the "Homecoming" or "Ghar Wapsi".

"We remind them about their history, that they are actually the descendants of the Hindu warrior king Prithviraj Chauhan who lived in the 12th century and, therefore, they are Hindus," the VHP general Secretary in Byawar, Nitesh Goel says.

"Some ill practices have crept into their behaviour, but this can be purified and they can become Hindus again. These people are not Muslims, they only follow certain customs that are common to Muslims. They are Hindus at heart and, therefore, should return to the religion," he says.


Jamna is unhappy that her father-in-law has converted to Islam

Mr Goel insists his organisation is not carrying out any campaign for conversion or reconversion. "People contact us voluntarily," he says.

But the VHP's campaign has alerted Muslim groups in the area.

The state president of Jamaat-e-Islami, Salim Engineer, says until 20 years ago (when the VHP first began its campaign) Muslim groups were not even aware that there was any confusion with regard to their community.

"Many centuries ago, Mehrats declared themselves as Muslims. But they did not know what Islam was and so remained with the old culture. They do not follow Islam in an organised manner. The VHP is spreading hatred," Mr Engineer said.

He also justifies the campaign by Muslim groups like Tabliki Jamaat to "educate" Mehrats about Islam.

"We are doing what the government has failed to do. The Muslim community all over India is seeking modern education. Along with that, we are also educating them about their religion," he said.

Stress


This need to join organised religion is putting a lot of stress on families that have co-existed with members following their own customs. And religion so far has played little part in their lives.

Mange Ram Kathat was a staunch Hindu and then decided to become a Muslim because he felt a majority of his community were Muslims. He says he does not discriminate between the two religions but his daughter-in-law Jamna, a school teacher who follows Hinduism, is clearly upset.


Shanta's decision to become a Hindu has alienated many of her relatives

"There is a lot of confusion in our household. There is tension between me and my husband because of my father-in-law," says Jamna.

She says that she also does not like her father-in law's Muslim outfit or his Islamic greetings.

"He should have remained a Hindu. Why did he do this?"

Though Mehrats are listed in the Other Backward Communities list and are as such entitled to benefits under the government's affirmative action policy, the community has little access to basic facilities such as schools or employment opportunities.

Barely 25 years ago, the community members had a lot more flexibility to switch between the religions.

But the harmonious mix of Hinduism and Islam which existed in the community for many centuries is now visibly under threat.

Source
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Uthman
07-13-2008, 10:45 AM
:bump:
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AFDAL
07-13-2008, 11:56 AM
"Many centuries ago, Mehrats declared themselves as Muslims. But they did not know what Islam was and so remained with the old culture. They do not follow Islam in an organised manner. The VHP is spreading hatred,"
Before the British invaded India , Islam was spreading peacefully , and some how it got struck at that very moment . Inshah Allah the Mehrats should know the real Islam and not in between .
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suffiyan007
07-13-2008, 01:48 PM
Allah show the Mr Singh the wAy f of islam,ALHAMDULILLAH!......lotsa people still not yet enter islam,,cause they still didnt see the light yet...! cause the people are so arrogant and deviation the truth!
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AFDAL
07-13-2008, 02:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suffiyan007
Allah show the Mr Singh the wAy f of islam,ALHAMDULILLAH!......lotsa people still not yet enter islam,,cause they still didnt see the light yet...! cause the people are so arrogant and deviation the truth!
Yes you are right that many Muslims in Indian Sub-continent are so much arrogant and deviated , and also one of the reason is illiterate .
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suffiyan007
07-13-2008, 04:43 PM
it cannot,mix hindusm and muslim practices in one time...cause the polytheism and monotheism have a big gap on it....how can praying to idols and then practices islamics...!totally CrazY...no one have 2 religions in one time!
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جوري
07-14-2008, 06:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suffiyan007
it cannot,mix hindusm and muslim practices in one time...cause the polytheism and monotheism have a big gap on it....how can praying to idols and then practices islamics...!totally CrazY...no one have 2 religions in one time!
That is how sikhism was born.. and I agree it is crazy

:w:
Reply

suffiyan007
07-15-2008, 03:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
That is how sikhism was born.. and I agree it is crazy

:w:
I heard by some speaker,said that the sikh Guru was a muslim, as the faith grows,the Guru created a clon teaching like sikhism who was taken in islamic teaching!..that became sikhism!...really crazy!....i see lotsa religions the people created by taking the laws and rules from torah,injeel and psalm also quran..? these sound funny!!!!..:muddlehea
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جوري
07-15-2008, 07:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suffiyan007
I heard by some speaker,said that the sikh Guru was a muslim, as the faith grows,the Guru created a clon teaching like sikhism who was taken in islamic teaching!..that became sikhism!...really crazy!....i see lotsa religions the people created by taking the laws and rules from torah,injeel and psalm also quran..? these sound funny!!!!..:muddlehea
No not funny.. essentially that is what people always do, when they don't like particular tenets of a religion, they put a spin on borrowed stuff.. Oh I don't like this particular law so I add a twist to it, sometimes it is secular, sometimes they start their own philosophy.. I don't particularly think any of those are religions, they are ideologies, and some like sikhism or scientology don't even have enough members to qualify as religions even, they are essentially cults!

:w:
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AntiKarateKid
07-15-2008, 08:01 PM
There certainly isnt any "blurred" line between the strictest monotheistic religion Islam and the polytheistic religion of Hinduism. Allah has made sure that we dont follow any pf their practices at all. Their basic practices are our most unforgivable sins for pete's sake ( whoever he is).


People should wake up and read the Quran before claiming any similarities. Pantheism and these ridiculous coupling of religions are what need to be avoided. It boils my blood taht after all the Prophets and all the martyrs who made sacrafices to keep our religion pure, we still have fools who mix practices and call religion "politics".

"Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sections but my people will be divided into 73 sections, all of them will be in the fire except one." The companions asked,'Who are they O Messenger of Allah,' Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "They are those who will be like me and my companions."
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suffiyan007
07-16-2008, 03:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
There certainly isnt any "blurred" line between the strictest monotheistic religion Islam and the polytheistic religion of Hinduism. Allah has made sure that we dont follow any pf their practices at all. Their basic practices are our most unforgivable sins for pete's sake ( whoever he is).


People should wake up and read the Quran before claiming any similarities. Pantheism and these ridiculous coupling of religions are what need to be avoided. It boils my blood taht after all the Prophets and all the martyrs who made sacrafices to keep our religion pure, we still have fools who mix practices and call religion "politics".

"Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sections but my people will be divided into 73 sections, all of them will be in the fire except one." The companions asked,'Who are they O Messenger of Allah,' Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "They are those who will be like me and my companions."
format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
No not funny.. essentially that is what people always do, when they don't like particular tenets of a religion, they put a spin on borrowed stuff.. Oh I don't like this particular law so I add a twist to it, sometimes it is secular, sometimes they start their own philosophy.. I don't particularly think any of those are religions, they are ideologies, and some like sikhism or scientology don't even have enough members to qualify as religions even, they are essentially cults!

:w:
i understand in this situation, has lots people have mentality to mix up the cultures of islam and muslim...what i mean is sound funny,is refer to inSane or crazy.....one day i pray hindu,one day i pray muslim.....really the idealogy of mix up make confusion,lotsa sikh follow the Guru,,,,and they believe in Allah too!...cause i heard one Story from sikh friends,the islam kills the sikh guru,Guru Ghobain!....i dont really know...i just wanna have small discussion!
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Trumble
07-16-2008, 06:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
I don't particularly think any of those are religions, they are ideologies, and some like sikhism or scientology don't even have enough members to qualify as religions even, they are essentially cults!
Rubbish. Since when was any particular number of members/believers required to 'qualify' as a religion?

Your comment is both ludicrous and ignorant in regard of Sikhism. I would agree Scientology is a 'cult' rather than 'religion', but for reasons unconnected with the number of scientologists.
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Fishman
07-16-2008, 10:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Rubbish. Since when was any particular number of members/believers required to 'qualify' as a religion?

Your comment is both ludicrous and ignorant in regard of Sikhism. I would agree Scientology is a 'cult' rather than 'religion', but for reasons unconnected with the number of scientologists.
:sl:
Sikhism has even more members than Judaism...
:w:
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Amadeus85
07-16-2008, 10:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Sikhism has even more members than Judaism...
:w:
Yeah,

I agree with Trumble. We shouldn't measure religions by the number of followers.
Same can be said about music, only because Britney Spears sold more albums than King Crimson, it doesnt mean that her music is better or more valuable.
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جوري
07-18-2008, 02:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Rubbish. Since when was any particular number of members/believers required to 'qualify' as a religion?

Your comment is both ludicrous and ignorant in regard of Sikhism. I would agree Scientology is a 'cult' rather than 'religion', but for reasons unconnected with the number of scientologists.
"Cult" typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding population considers to be outside the mainstream. which is what sikhism is

I don't know how current the graph is but you get the pic!

Judaism as a singular code could be considered a cult, except they are recognized by two other major world religions, who very much share the same prophets and same belief system.

I don't recognize sikhism as a religion, any more than I consider Buddhism or Taoism a religion... it is simply less popular than the latter two... outside of the 'people of the book' the others aren't even contenders.. it is just philosophy to which some choose to adhere..

was your 'rubbish' meant to change my mind?

cheers
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suffiyan007
07-18-2008, 07:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
"Cult" typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding population considers to be outside the mainstream. which is what sikhism is

I don't know how current the graph is but you get the pic!

Judaism as a singular code could be considered a cult, except they are recognized by two other major world religions, who very much share the same prophets and same belief system.

I don't recognize sikhism as a religion, any more than I consider Buddhism or Taoism a religion... it is simply less popular than the latter two... outside of the 'people of the book' the others aren't even contenders.. it is just philosophy to which some choose to adhere..

was your 'rubbish' meant to change my mind?

cheers

Jews and christianity are religion or cult? cause these i mentions somehow going going to astray.....So the religion is more secure is ISLAM!
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جوري
07-18-2008, 08:37 PM
they are people of the book, as we are told, who have gone astray..
:w:
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suffiyan007
07-19-2008, 02:56 AM
the christian and jews...has been astrayed,the religions are only for that centuries,why are still existed in this century,cause has been voided now,and only islam the religion now only till the end of the world?
Reply

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