PDA

View Full Version : if allah the all forgiving and patient...



truemuslim
07-16-2008, 01:17 AM
:sl:

Ok i have another question.
This one is about allah being forgiving.

You know how in the quran and all Allah says he is very forgiving so he will forgive any sin but shirk and all that? But then It says all the punishments of the grave, and hell, and even in the dunya,
So if Allah is patient and forgiving, then how come he punishes so many people in the dunya? Like this one guy that droops his pants low then got eaten by the earth, Is that patient and forgiving? Couldn't that guy get a few chances?
And when stuff like that happen, you kno i just don't get it.
Im so so sorry if my questions are getting annoying, or sound all athiestish, but i wanna be able to find answers and see islam as a clear true religion. Whenever you want me to stop jus say "Ook safa jus stop right der" kk :D

Jazakallah khair

WaSalaam
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
snakelegs
07-16-2008, 06:56 AM
i don't know if anyone can really answer these questions. but since no one has tried, i will try to not-answer them anyway. :D
you are trying to use limited human mind to grasp something that is unlimited and boundless and timeless. it cannot be done.
you have a human conception of mercy, patience forgiving and your concepts are limited by time.
so what i'm saying is not to brush you off, but just that i think it is an impossiblity for the finite to grasp the infinite. you can't really apply your intellect to try to understand something that is beyond.
do you think any person exists who can truly claim to understand allah?
at some point, i think you simply have to accept that it is not possible.
there is a reason why we are human beings and he is god, don't you think?
Reply

alcurad
07-16-2008, 11:52 AM
what's this about earth eating people who drop pants?
on the other hand allah does mention forgiving anything except shirk, but the verse also says forgive ' whomever he wills', so it's not up to us to decide.
Reply

S_87
07-16-2008, 12:28 PM
keep asking questions sister :)
no point letting it eat you up inside if someone can make it clear for you.

First of all, whats this about the pants story? :?

Secondly, just as Allah states in the Quran that He is Al Ghafoor and Al Raheem, He also states that He is shadeed ul iqaab and adhaab

Allah has given us many chances to rectify ourselves. We have been given many many chances. What we do in sin can be forgiven with sincere repentance. This is something Allah, The Most Merciful welcomes.
As the Quran states, trans of:

Say: "O Ibadee (my slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! despair not of the mercy of Allah, verily Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful
39:53

and seeking forgiveness we have a chance to do right up until we die. No matter how bad the sin is, sincere repentance can wipe it out.

and:

Verily, Allah forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin.

4:48

This ayah shows the mercy of Allah.

and remember, the Quran is a reminder onto the believers..

Thus We relate to you (O Muhammad SAW) some information of what happened before. And indeed We have given you from Us a reminder (this quran).
20:99
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
truemuslim
07-16-2008, 05:00 PM
aw ok thanks everyone. and amani thank u for ur answer.
But issit because allah knows that person won't change?
Like say i listen to music , allah will punish me right now with something, issit because he know's whats going to happen in the future? That im not going to change and quit music?
Reply

Eric H
07-16-2008, 07:01 PM
Gretings and peace be with you truemuslim;

It is within Allah’s power to kill the man for dropping his pants, and it is still within Allah’s power to forgive that same man after, and grant him eternal salvation. This is not a contradiction for a forgiving and merciful God.

In the same kind of way, parents might punish a child for braking a window, but that punishment would not continue every day for the rest of that child’s life. If they were truly loving parents they would forgive that child after some small punishment.

Scriptures seem very frustrating, they tell you that Allah killed the guy for dropping his pants, but they do not say if he eventually went to heaven or hell.

I sense this is because scripture is intended to search out what is in our own heart and mind rather than what is in the mind of Allah. The more you are able to forgive other people when they harm you, the more you may come to understand how Allah can forgive you.

I sense you are going to struggle with the music question for at least another twenty years, it is a powerful temptation. Bur do not stop believing that Allah is forgiving and merciful, he understands our struggle and our temptation

In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God,

Eric
Reply

truemuslim
07-16-2008, 07:50 PM
Greetings and peace be with you truemuslim;
Peace be wit u too :)

It is within Allah’s power to kill the man for dropping his pants, and it is still within Allah’s power to forgive that same man after, and grant him eternal salvation. This is not a contradiction for a forgiving and merciful God.

In the same kind of way, parents might punish a child for braking a window, but that punishment would not continue every day for the rest of that child’s life. If they were truly loving parents they would forgive that child after some small punishment.
:) Much clearer (if thats a word)

Scriptures seem very frustrating, they tell you that Allah killed the guy for dropping his pants, but they do not say if he eventually went to heaven or hell.
good point. I missed that point.

I sense this is because scripture is intended to search out what is in our own heart and mind rather than what is in the mind of Allah. The more you are able to forgive other people when they harm you, the more you may come to understand how Allah can forgive you.

I sense you are going to struggle with the music question for at least another twenty years, it is a powerful temptation. Bur do not stop believing that Allah is forgiving and merciful, he understands our struggle and our temptation

In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God,

Eric
Thank u brother for all your answers and help in every question i asked. You really do answer my questions with amazing responses that DONT lead to more questions or more doubt. :) :) :)
Reply

------
07-16-2008, 07:57 PM
So if Allah is patient and forgiving, then how come he punishes so many people in the dunya?
dat punishment might be dat ur sins r getting washed out, so u meet Allaah wiv no sins - dats Allaah being forgiving coz itz better to suffer n dis life than the Aakhirah
Reply

truemuslim
07-16-2008, 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by - Serene -

dat punishment might be dat ur sins r getting washed out, so u meet Allaah wiv no sins - dats Allaah being forgiving coz itz better to suffer n dis life than the Aakhirah

awww thank u moore! :D:D:D
Reply

S_87
07-16-2008, 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by truemuslim
aw ok thanks everyone. and amani thank u for ur answer.
But issit because allah knows that person won't change?
Like say i listen to music , allah will punish me right now with something, issit because he know's whats going to happen in the future? That im not going to change and quit music?
Allah does know the life of a person. When each person is in their mothers womb an angel blows the soul and writes four things which are his deeds, time of death, livelihood and whether the person will be happy or sad.
So even before you are born Allah knows you are going to do this and that and where youll end up. But still, Allah has been merciful to us. Not one person living on earth and claim with certainty they are sinless or guaranteed paradise. a really nice hadith regarding this is -from the sahihain

Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(as regards your creation), every one of you is collected in the womb of his mother for the first forty days, and then he becomes a clot for an other forty days, and then a piece of flesh for an other forty days. Then Allah sends an angel to write four words: He writes his deeds, time of his death, means of his livelihood, and whether he will be wretched or blessed (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into his body. So a man may do deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and so he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. Similarly, a person may do deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire and enters the (Hell) Fire."

Secondly- regarding you listening to music, look around and see how many dhalimoon are around and living in comfort for now. Allah is Well Aware of what they do, they will be dealt with when their time comes. If we do something, Allah does not punish us straight away, on the contrary we are given many chances.
and you dont know whether or not you are going to change :p
Reply

Eric H
07-16-2008, 11:32 PM
Greetings and peace be with you truemuslim,

We struggle to understand how Allah can forgive us, but read this story of two enemies.

Ghazi Briegeith & Rami Elhanan
Ghazi Briegeith, a Palestinian electrician living in Hebron, and Rami Elhanan, an Israeli graphic designer from Jerusalem, met through the Parents’ Circle – a group of bereaved families supporting reconciliation and peace. Ghazi’s brother was killed at a checkpoint in 2000. Rami’s 14-year-old daughter was the victim of a suicide bombing in Jerusalem in 1997.

Rami
I was on my way to the airport when my wife called and told me Smadar was missing. When something like this happens a cold hand grabs your heart. You rush between friends’ houses and hospitals, then eventually you find yourself in the morgue and you see a sight you’ll never forget for the rest of your life. From that moment you are a new person. Everything is different.

At first I was tormented with anger and grief; I wanted revenge, to get even. But we are people – not animals! I asked myself, “Will killing someone else release my pain?” Of course not. It was clear to my wife and I that the blame rests with the occupation. The suicide bomber was a victim just like my daughter, grown crazy out of anger and shame.

I don’t forgive and I don’t forget, but when this happened to my daughter I had to ask myself whether I’d contributed in any way. The answer was that I had – my people had, for ruling, dominating and oppressing three-and-a-half million Palestinians for 35 years. It is a sin and you pay for sins.

At first I foolishly thought I could just go back to work and resume my life, but the pain was unbearable. Then, a year later, I met Ytzhak Frankenthal, the founder of the Parents’ Circle. He was wearing a ‘kippah’ on his head, and immediately I stereotyped him as an ‘Arab eater’. Even when he told me his personal story, and about the reconciliation work of Parents’ Circle, I was very cynical.

He invited me to a meeting, and reluctantly I went along, just to take a look. I saw buses full of people, among them legends – parents who had lost kids in wars and who still wanted peace. I saw an Arab lady in a long black dress. On her chest was a picture of a six-year-old kid. A singer sang in Hebrew and Arabic, and suddenly I was hit by lightening. I can’t explain it, but from that moment I had a reason to get up in the morning again.

Since then my work with the Parents’ Circle has become the centre of my life, a sacred mission. If we – Ghazi and I – can talk and stand together after paying the highest price possible, then anyone can. There is a high wall between our two nations, a wall of hate and fear. Someone needs to put cracks in the wall in order for it to fall down.

Ghazi
You need a ticket to belong to the Parents’ Circle – the ticket is to have lost a member of your close family. This means Rami and I are brothers of pain.

My own brother was killed in 2000 at the beginning of the Intifada. I’d been with him just minutes before he died. As I was walking home I heard a shot. I found out later he’d been stopped and searched at the checkpoint. When he protested, the soldier shouted, “Shut your mouth, or I’ll shoot you, you son of a *****,” to which my brother replied: “YOU son of a *****!” So the soldier shot him. It was a machine gun in a kid’s hand. Sometimes the power makes them mad.

At first I was completely out of my mind – crazy with grief. There should be no forgiveness for the killers of innocents, and yet even then I saw the soldier as a victim of the occupation just as my brother was, just as I am still. But forgiveness is a very personal thing. Even if I choose to forgive the person who killed my brother, I can’t force my brother’s kids to forgive. But I can show them that far more valuable than a violent response, is opening your heart to reconciliation and peace. I can show them that opening a new page is their only hope of living a better life than ours.

The Palestinians have nothing left to lose, so the Israelis must realise that they are destroying their own nation by causing so much suffering. You don’t need to love each other to build a bridge between the two nations: you need respect. If I can stand with my Jewish brother Rami, respecting him as he respects me, then there is hope.
A story of how enemies who should hate each other for what the other side has done, find it in their hearts to forgive in extreme circumstances.

If Allah is more merciful and forgiving than Ghazi and Rami, what does that mean?

In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God

Eric
Reply

truemuslim
07-17-2008, 03:07 AM
thank u again both for ur answers. THank u brother eric for the story too. i never read it before. Thank u so much

Also...i sorta got..emm..em..another question.

Ok well i dont think ima stop music any time soon, But im hoping on it in the future.
But then allah punishes me for it right now, just like tons of other people already punished in dunya. Like death punishement. so then i cant stop music. i just freeze right there. then...emm...Busstedd right?

Also they say the tsunami was a punishment from allah because of ..emm...i forget, som sins people were doing there. Thats another dunya punishment.
and the hadiths and all about the punishment for missing prayer. Theres 15 punishemnts, three in the grave, three in the akhirah, and six in the dunya...i thnk
Reply

------
07-17-2008, 10:41 AM
Originally Posted by truemuslim

Ok well i dont think ima stop music any time soon, But im hoping on it in the future.
But then allah punishes me for it right now, just like tons of other people already punished in dunya. Like death punishement. so then i cant stop music. i just freeze right there. then...emm...Busstedd right?
This is where Jihad un Nafs comes in. You are struggling against ur desires, and this is the highest form of Jihad, u get amazing reward for it in the Aakhirah. You are not the only one struggling with stop listening to music, there are many others...

Also they say the tsunami was a punishment from allah because of ..emm...i forget, som sins people were doing there. Thats another dunya punishment.
Allaah does everything for a reason. We might not know that reason now, but there is always wisdom behind everything. Our brains are too tiny and think very narrow to understand the concept of why Allaah does things. Also we do not know the future, so what might have taken place might be better for the future.

and the hadiths and all about the punishment for missing prayer. Theres 15 punishemnts, three in the grave, three in the akhirah, and six in the dunya...i thnk
That is a false hadith attributed to the Messenger of Allaah Sallallau Alayhi Wa Sallam. Check out this thread for more information;

http://www.islamicboard.com/prayer/1...se-hadith.html

Reply

truemuslim
07-17-2008, 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by - Serene -

This is where Jihad un Nafs comes in. You are struggling against ur desires, and this is the highest form of Jihad, u get amazing reward for it in the Aakhirah. You are not the only one struggling with stop listening to music, there are many others...

Allaah does everything for a reason. We might not know that reason now, but there is always wisdom behind everything. Our brains are too tiny and think very narrow to understand the concept of why Allaah does things. Also we do not know the future, so what might have taken place might be better for the future.

That is a false hadith attributed to the Messenger of Allaah Sallallau Alayhi Wa Sallam. Check out this thread for more information;

http://www.islamicboard.com/prayer/1...se-hadith.html

aw jazakallah khair sis :):)
I didn't know thats a false hadith! Everyone knows that hadith. Thank u veery much sis :D
Reply

------
07-18-2008, 11:05 AM
May Allaah reward you too sis, Make dua for me. x

Assalamu Alaikum
Reply

truemuslim
07-18-2008, 04:00 PM
Thank u.
I already do make dua for u. :)
Reply

suffiyan007
07-18-2008, 04:12 PM
Yes,GoD patience to all his creation....cause God has sent the Truth to the slave of Allah,and no one believe that God existence,and God sent Tsunami to the Acheh,indonesia...he really furious cause people making God angry....!
even committed adultery...everyday in life!...and lotsa maksiat people doing....
Reply

Eeman
07-20-2008, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by amani
Allah does know the life of a person. When each person is in their mothers womb an angel blows the soul and writes four things which are his deeds, time of death, livelihood and whether the person will be happy or sad.
So even before you are born Allah knows you are going to do this and that and where youll end up. But still, Allah has been merciful to us. Not one person living on earth and claim with certainty they are sinless or guaranteed paradise. a really nice hadith regarding this is -from the sahihain

Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(as regards your creation), every one of you is collected in the womb of his mother for the first forty days, and then he becomes a clot for an other forty days, and then a piece of flesh for an other forty days. Then Allah sends an angel to write four words: He writes his deeds, time of his death, means of his livelihood, and whether he will be wretched or blessed (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into his body. So a man may do deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and so he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. Similarly, a person may do deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire and enters the (Hell) Fire."

Secondly- regarding you listening to music, look around and see how many dhalimoon are around and living in comfort for now. Allah is Well Aware of what they do, they will be dealt with when their time comes. If we do something, Allah does not punish us straight away, on the contrary we are given many chances.
and you dont know whether or not you are going to change :p
salam alaikum...

sorry that hadith just made me think twice... ummm if that is truly the case then where does human free will come into it?
cos thats bascially saying in other words that the angel writes down everything and its been already decided where ur going when you are in the womb. so basically u can be a righteous person firm believer and practising slave of Allah swt and then all of a sudden turn into a disbeliever just cos the angel had written that u would be a person of the hell fire and change 360 degrees.
and whats this with the four words???? i dont understand :uuh:
is our whole life contained in 4 words?
ok and doesnt that even contradict the whole belief of only Allah swt knowing the ghaib??????????

hmmm how authentic is that hadith.

please someone help clarify Insha'Allah

ma salama
Reply

------
07-21-2008, 10:06 AM
Originally Posted by truemuslim
Thank u.
I already do make dua for u. :)
:ooh: Jazaak Allaah Khayr... :-[
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-27-2012, 10:28 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-28-2012, 01:53 PM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-21-2009, 12:52 AM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-01-2008, 06:44 PM
  5. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-14-2006, 10:56 PM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!