Nazi ------> Religion ??

[Maplesyrop]

Hi all, i'm Atheist, i want to know if you think if Nazi is a religion. Or a part of deformed christianity like terrorists are actually a deformed islam.

Thanks

Richard LeFénéant

[ASeeker]

I do not think Naziism is a religion at all. It is an atheistic political philosophy in the same way that Communism is an atheistic political philosophy. Naziism cannot claim justification from the Christian scriptures though Muslim terrorists try to do that with the Quran. Am I right?

[Amadeus85]

Nazi = Religion?
I think that this was made up by enemies of religion as an excuse. Nazism wouldnt appear without Enlightment, XVIII century philospohies, without Nietzsche and Schopenhauer, without rejecting religion and creating man made ideologies like communism and natiionalism.Nazis have killed hundreds of priests, they have created own pagan vision of world, so now equating nazism with religion is something rude in my opinion.

[Re.TiReD]

like terrorists are actually a deformed islam.

:heated:

Its true, but bear in mind that there have been T's in the past that were not Muslim ....

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[YusufNoor]

Hi all, i'm Atheist, i want to know if you think if Nazi is a religion. Or a part of deformed christianity like terrorists are actually a deformed islam.

Thanks

Richard LeFénéant

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

let's go with religion, a George Bush kind of Christianity! there are eerie similarities:

Pre-emptive Invasion (Poland/Lowlands/Holland-Belgium-France as compared to Afghanistan and Iraq) for "Homeland" security!

Gestapo as compared to the "Patriot" Act!

using Jews as scapegoats in order build an empire as compared to using Muslims as scapegoats to build an empire!

all done while singing patriotic/religious songs!

imagine how everyday Americans will feel when all this is over!

oh, and "terrorists are actually a deformed islam." and by "deformed Islam" you meant CIA, British and Israeli Intelligence, right?

:w:

[Abdul Fattah]

Hi, this may look like a foolish question at first, but it's actually quite challenging to answer. Originally nazism referred to a political view. But then later on the name was adapted to refer to specific concepts and ideologies in general, not necessarily linked to the original political party of Adolf Hitler.

If you ask me what is the difference between a religion and a ideology;
1. Religion is a set of multiple ideas and concepts whereas an ideology generally refers to only one main concept.
2. Religion refers to very specif ideas and concepts (metaphysical, human nature, morality, cosmos,...) whereas the term ideology is allot more general, and loose.
3. Believing in a religions is based on faith, believing in an ideologies is based on reason and deduction (albeit it possibly flawed deductions)

[Hamayun]

Muslim terrorists try to do that with the Quran. Am I right?

Are we forgetting about the Crusades??? And do you have no knowledge of what the I.R.A are and what they were fighting for??? :?

I feel sorry for you. You must live somewhere really remote and primitive to have such a lack of general knowledge... :(

I will pray for you. May Allah help you overcome your ignorance and stupidity and grant you some intelligence my Brother. :)

Think!!! before you open your mouth to make spiteful comments :)

[Keltoi]

Are we forgetting about the Crusades??? And do you have no knowledge of what the I.R.A are and what they were fighting for??? :?

The IRA were fighting for a political goal. The Protestant/Catholic conflict was similar to the Sunni/Shiite conflict in Iraq I suppose. Those are two separate issues however.

[barney]

Definatly a religion.
Deity The Fuhrer/ greater german god (wotan/christ hodgepodge)
Holy Book Mein Kampf
Symbology Swastika
Pilgramage Nurenberg rally
Ideology Superiority of the national socialist system over all others
Hymns : various and many
Martyerdom For the fatherland

Prayers were directed to and oaths sworn on hitler, his face adorned each house like christs pictures adorn a catholics.


Juche, Maoism ,Soviet communism. All religions.

[north_malaysian]

they have created own pagan vision of world

that sounds like a religion... a Neo-Pagan religion...

Can someone explain the usage of Swastika by the Nazis...

When I was a kid I used to think that the Buddhists, Hindus and Taoists are Nazis as they also use the swastika symbol.

[barney]

Swastika was a neolitic symbol adapted by Greeks Hindus and many others. It was a lucky sign which was supposed to bring fortune on the owner.

It was also a part of Wotan the god of wars worship, hence its Germanic use.

[doorster]

Definatly a religion.
Deity The Fuhrer/ greater german god (wotan/christ hodgepodge)
Holy Book Mein Kampf
Symbology Swastika
Pilgramage Nurenberg rally
Ideology Superiority of the national socialist system over all others
Hymns : various and many
Martyerdom For the fatherland

Prayers were directed to and oaths sworn on hitler, his face adorned each house like christs pictures adorn a catholics.


Juche, Maoism ,Soviet communism. All religions.

have you ever been to any modern day Nazi (neo-Nazis) websites lately? one American site in particular (some sort of southern baptists) they say they are chosen people of god Jesus (every one else was created to serve the nation of god and that bad bad guy Lincoln took away their god given rights

[barney]

Hitler was at some levels a catholic, he was bats though so i doubt he knew what he was really, he used emplaced religion when and as it suited him. He had a division of Muslim Waffen SS troops, the "Handschar", ferocious and brutal as the Totenkopft. Masses of warcrimes.

National Socialism diddnt follow a organised big 3 religion foremost, they followed National Socialism, and this system ticks all the boxes of a religion itself.


Heres the Whermachts uniform belt buckle. God Is With Us.

[doorster]

Swastika was a neolitic symbol adapted by Greeks Hindus and many others. It was a lucky sign which was supposed to bring fortune on the owner.


It was also a part of Wotan the god of wars worship, hence its Germanic use.

Hindu brahmins I've met claim descent from Aryan nation (as did Hitler) which took over India and made slaves and un-touchables out of dark-skinned inhabitants

it is is a nice thread for the progeny of Nazi collaborators who helped their Catholic brethren to annihilate Jews . now if they can prove that Nazism is a different faith to their ever loving Catholicism its all good and well!

[doorster]

Hitler was at some levels a catholic, he was bats though so i doubt he knew what he was really, he used emplaced religion when and as it suited him. He had a division of Muslim Waffen SS troops, the "Handschar", ferocious and brutal as the Totenkopft. Masses of warcrimes.

National Socialism diddnt follow a organised big 3 religion foremost, they followed National Socialism, and this system ticks all the boxes of a religion itself.


Heres the Whermachts uniform belt buckle. God Is With Us.

i knew it was not going to be long before it turned on Islam!

He had a division of Muslim Waffen SS troops

what country were they from? what were they hoping to get in return for helping Germany? (he also had men from England and Poland too)

[nocturnal]

It depends on individual perspective. Im pretty sure they were opposing factions within the Nazi rank and file themselves when it came to actually defining in pretty succint and concise words exactly what Nazism is.

Conceptually, i don't think we can quite say conclusively that Nazism was an ideology and not a religion. Remember, for a lot of people, the Fuhrer, was quite literally, God. This was the prevailing attitude all the way till the end of the Third Reich amongst many German people who saw him as somewhat of a Messianic figure rather than an international megalomaniac of colossal proportions.

Nazism, in practical terms, id say was both an ideology and a religion. Mein Kampf became like the Bible and Hitler became a Christ-like individual to the German masses. If Boleshevism eschewed the notion of religion, then Nazism was the diametric opposite of that, extolling Christian values (albeit it selectively to suit political interests). Id say it was a a very complex conflation of religion, ideology and a dangerous doctrine of expansionism and militarism.

All those perlious religious, ideological and doctrinaire elements fused together resulted in possibly the most nefarious regime of recent history. Although, i believe unswervingly that the most heinous and demonic international regime is that of the zionist israeli entity, and it's benefactors in the US.

[KAding]

Remember, for a lot of people, the Fuhrer, was quite literally, God. This was the prevailing attitude all the way till the end of the Third Reich amongst many German people who saw him as somewhat of a Messianic figure rather than an international megalomaniac of colossal proportions.

Thats the first time I've heard that. I don't know of any examples where Hitler was granted Godlike status even in Nazi Germany. I don't think he portrayed himself as a God even in the propaganda, let alone that Germans believed it. Don't forget, the overwhelming majority of Germans were Christians back then. Claiming God-like status would only have complicated the matter for him from a political perspective.

Anyway, concerning the original post, I think it is rather pointless to call a political doctrine a religion. There might be some characteristics that are shared between the two, but that does not mean that such a doctrine is religious. In fascism there were no references to the super natural, in fact a people's rights and destiny were very much approached from a 'natural'/'scientific' perspective.

[barney]

Why is that "turning on Islam".??? There are lots of things i like about islam and I have muslim freinds. Your making out that I'm islamophobic, which i find offensive so please dont plunge on every post just because Skye does.
I bring it up to show that Hitler was a user of religion for his ends. In the admonishment of Catholoicism and its hand in the work of the Nazi's I cant hardly exclude mentioning Muslim involvement?

The Handschar were bosnian muslims and some catholics, they wore fez's and were a mountain division (22000 men). There was some hope from them that Hitler would give Bosnia over to the ummah.

[nocturnal]

Thats the first time I've heard that. I don't know of any examples where Hitler was granted Godlike status even in Nazi Germany. I don't think he portrayed himself as a God even in the propaganda, let alone that Germans believed it. Don't forget, the overwhelming majority of Germans were Christians back then. Claiming God-like status would only have complicated the matter for him from a political perspective.

Anyway, concerning the original post, I think it is rather pointless to call a political doctrine a religion. There might be some characteristics that are shared between the two, but that does not mean that such a doctrine is religious. In fascism there were no references to the super natural, in fact a people's rights and destiny were very much approached from a 'natural'/'scientific' perspective.

I read a book not too long ago on Nazi Germany, and the author cited an element of society, which did percieve Hitler at least as a demi-God in certain senses.

Hitler didn't claim God like-status, but i believe even if he did, it would not have compounded his political situation, because remember, he was at the helm of a regime that used fear, intimidation and repression to sustain itself until it was forcefully ousted. So, yes claiming God like status might not have endeared him to the vast majority of Germans, but he certainly had the means to brutally beat the point into everyone if he needed to. As an autocrat, he did just that.

[doorster]

He had a division of Muslim Waffen SS troops, the "Handschar", ferocious and brutal as the Totenkopft. Masses of warcrimes.

no mention of Englanders or poles! why? no mention of country of origin of "muslim" troops or their reasoning

if you don't like it Tough! its an open forum and I'll post as I see fit until one of your mates bans me again.

[barney]

Oh yep and Hitler did have some British fighting for him in the waffen SS, i wasreading in Military History an articel on it last year. There were 22 of them. They fought against the russians.

Why not mention them? Well apart from being 1000 times less than the number of Muslims, they were english of various faiths and none. The Handschar were recruited by the grand mufti Al Husayni under the guise of jihad.
We are talking religion and Hitler. Some swededs and Portugese and spanish also fought, but for Hitlers religion of Nazism. The Handschar "fought for Allah" as willing allies of Hitler.

I'm not saying that they were "true muslims" as you guys would define them now, but you cant wipe out history. Why not just say, "Cripes! Thats awful! I regret that this happened, lets learn lessons from it!"

[nocturnal]

no mention of Englanders or poles! why? no mention of country of origin of "muslim" troops or their reasoning

if you dont like it Tough! its an open forum and I'll post as I see fit until one of your mates bans me again.

for chrissake dude, he cited the Muslim waffen SS division because he thought it'd be of interest for us to know, and that maybe not many of us were aware of it. I certainly wasn't. And it adds a whole new dynamic to the discussion and makes it more interesting. So cut barney some slack, this isn't the security council at the UN.

[doorster]

for chrissake dude, he cited the Muslim waffen SS division because he thought it'd be of interest for us to know, and that maybe not many of us were aware of it. I certainly wasn't. And it adds a whole new dynamic to the discussion and makes it more interesting. So cut barney some slack, this isn't the security council at the UN.

oopse was that some sort of Freudian slip?

in any case read more of his posts first http://www.islamicboard.com/search/f...s-posts/11793/

[barney]

oopse was that some sort of Freudian slip?

in any case read more of his posts first http://www.islamicboard.com/search/f...s-posts/11793/

Edited to cut out Ranting:
Deep breath in...slow breath out!

[north_malaysian]

there were Muslims in the Nazi army, there were Muslims in the Allies too, there were Muslims that saving the Jews, there were Muslims killed in the holocaust too, there were Muslims in Japanese army and there were Muslims fighting the Japanese with the British too....

Conclusion: there were Muslims everywhere....:D

[barney]

Yup, despite some veiws on the matter, i'm not after going into a "Muslims sided with Hitler" yawnathon today. We can leave it at that for sake of a peacable thread.

If anyone wants to take up the Handschar in another thread, I'm happy to fill you in on all they did and stood for and why they differ from muslims in the allied forces.

Simple fact is that National Socialism, as practiced by Hitler was in all practicable areas a religion, and Hitler was a master of using religion in his brainwashing of the german people.

[doorster]

there were Muslims in the Nazi army, there were Muslims in the Allies too, there were Muslims that saving the Jews, there were Muslims killed in the holocaust too, there were Muslims in Japanese army and there were Muslims fighting the Japanese with the British too....

Conclusion: there were Muslims everywhere....:D

:thumbs_up
;D
:w:

[جوري]

so please dont plunge on every post just because Skye does.
.

:mmokay:--carry on..

I don't find this thread interesting enough to partake in.. in fact the only comment here worth mentioning was of 'Aseeker'..seems he took a detour from the addlehead house to LI..
isn't barn whimsically eccentric enough are we now allowing sociopaths membership too?

[north_malaysian]

Yup, despite some veiws on the matter, i'm not after going into a "Muslims sided with Hitler" yawnathon today. We can leave it at that for sake of a peacable thread.

If anyone wants to take up the Handschar in another thread, I'm happy to fill you in on all they did and stood for and why they differ from muslims in the allied forces.

Simple fact is that National Socialism, as practiced by Hitler was in all practicable areas a religion, and Hitler was a master of using religion in his brainwashing of the german people.

In Hellboy, the Nazis are occultists....is it true?

[barney]

:mmokay:--carry on..

I don't find this thread interesting enough to partake in.. in fact the only comment here worth mentioning was of 'Aseeker'..seems he took a detour from the addlehead house to LI..
isn't barn whimsically eccentric enough are we now allowing sociopaths membership too?

Are you implying that I'm NOT a sociopath? Because you are sorely mistaken young lady!

[barney]

In Hellboy, the Nazis are occultists....is it true?

That comes from the Wotan thing. Wotan is pagan, pagan is occultism.

[north_malaysian]

That comes from the Wotan thing. Wotan is pagan, pagan is occultism.

ok...Nazism is a religion then....case closed! :D

[barney]

ok...Nazism is a religion then....case closed! :D

LOL! No No!:D
National socialism was the religion, it used parts of other religions to give it substance and merit.
As Mormonism was built upon Christianity, but was really Jo Smiths mad dream turned reality, N.S was Hitlers Mein Kampf solidified by Wotan/Catholicism and the greater german god..

[barney]

I Am I right?

No:hiding:

[north_malaysian]

LOL! No No!:D
National socialism was the religion, it used parts of other religions to give it substance and merit.
As Mormonism was built upon Christianity, but was really Jo Smiths mad dream turned reality, N.S was Hitlers Mein Kampf solidified by Wotan/Catholicism and the greater german god..

ok..ok... Nazism is a denominational/sect of National Socialism religion....case closed! ;D

[alcurad]

interesting that, about the SS.

btw what does woden have to do with this? rather Hitler used existing ideologies/symbols for his cause. that doesn't make it a religion.

[Trumble]

It's an odd question, this. Intuitively, of course, it is very hard to consider Nazism or Soviet (for example) communism as 'religions', but when weighed up against any reasonable attempt to define a religion it it actually very hard to exclude them, for much the reasons Barney suggests. The same applies to 'Manchester United', which seems even more absurd, but in both cases adherents/fans show the same 'ritualistic behaviour' and even 'worship' included in most attempts to satisfactorily define religion. The ideology (or football club) can take exactly the same place in people's lives as religion does. It is an essential point here that, considering communism in that way, it is NOT being considered a 'religion' BECAUSE it is 'atheistic'.

You could resort to an inadequate 'dictionary' definition of religion that excludes anything not involving belief in God, or gods, or even the 'supernatural' in general, but that would (arguably perhaps, in the latter case) exclude several of what certainly are seen religions by most people such as Buddhism and Daoism. Such definitions invariably are inadequate as they generally only represent the concept of religion accepted by the person writing the definition, which is primarily cultural rather than scientific or philosophical in nature. So an English or Arabic dictionary definition would generally include 'God or gods', but its highly unlikely even a pre-Communist Chinese one would.

[Muezzin]

^The 'Manchester United' definition would also include Star Wars fans, Trekkies and geekdom in general. It's too wide.

Nazi = Religion?
I think that this was made up by enemies of religion as an excuse. Nazism wouldnt appear without Enlightment, XVIII century philospohies, without Nietzsche and Schopenhauer, without rejecting religion and creating man made ideologies like communism and natiionalism.Nazis have killed hundreds of priests, they have created own pagan vision of world, so now equating nazism with religion is something rude in my opinion.

I wouldn't call them religious, but the Nazis did indeed pervert certain religious symbols for their own ends. Such as the swastika (which is a flipped version of a Hindu symbol which has nothing to do with fascism), and I recall reading/watching a documentary about the eagle symbols being perverted from... some sort of church? A little shaky there. I'll see if I can dig it up.

If anything, Nazis were obsessed with Norse mythology. I don't know if all that counts as 'religion' any more. Anyone believe in Valkyries?

I don't think your average brownshirt was particularly religious - at least not any more than they felt they needed to be in order to blame Jewish people for everything.

[ASeeker]

I know the Catholics sometime get a bit of a kicking over the Naziis but the inclusion of a Muslim division is a surprise. I will need some convincing over that. I am skeptical about it.

[Trumble]

No need to be, its not as if anyone has ever disputed it. As always, though, it pays to establish the facts which in this case had far more to do with ethnic conflict in the Balkans than religion.

13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian)

[Amadeus85]

Definatly a religion.
Deity The Fuhrer/ greater german god (wotan/christ hodgepodge)
Holy Book Mein Kampf
Symbology Swastika
Pilgramage Nurenberg rally
Ideology Superiority of the national socialist system over all others
Hymns : various and many
Martyerdom For the fatherland

Prayers were directed to and oaths sworn on hitler, his face adorned each house like christs pictures adorn a catholics.


Juche, Maoism ,Soviet communism. All religions.

Barney following this thinking you are also religious man- your religon is angosticism. Being fan of Arsenal FC is also religious, as well as collecting stamps and reading everyday newspapers.
Socialism, liberalism, nationalism, secularism are all religions, :mmokay:

[doorster]

Barney following this thinking you are also religious man- your religon is angosticism. Being fan of Arsenal FC is also religious, as well as collecting stamps and reading everyday newspapers.
Socialism, liberalism, nationalism, secularism are all religions, :mmokay:

I thought his religion was sarcasmism ;D:giggling: