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Uthman
07-18-2008, 09:30 PM
Young Muslims will be given British citizenship lessons when they attend mosque schools, as part of a range of new measures outlined by the government to combat extremism.

The plans, contained in a report published today, Preventing Violent Extremism: Next Steps for Communities, were put together after discussions with representatives of Muslim communities in an attempt to prevent the marginalisation of young people.

A central focus will be to show that adhering to the Islamic faith can co-exist with being British.

Trials of the new citizenship lessons will begin in several cities at the start of the new term in September, where they will be taught alongside traditional lessons about the Qu'ran.

Cambridge University has been commissioned to create an independent board of about 20 academic and theological experts to examine issues relating to Islam in a modern context.

They will be expected to compile a report on Islamic beliefs in relation to life in modern Britain over the coming academic year.

The communities secretary, Hazel Blears, announced the plans as part of a new package to prevent radicalisation which includes a renewed focus on community leadership.

"We have made significant progress working with communities to build an alliance against violent extremists,'' she said.

"We have a responsibility to ensure our young people are equipped with the skills they need to stand up to violent extremists and help them understand how their faith is compatible with wider shared values,'' she said.

Officials said mosque teachers in London, Leicester, Birmingham, Oldham, Rochdale, and Bradford would be trained in using the new materials over the summer.

The secretary of state for children, schools and families, Ed Balls said: "Extremists of every persuasion tend to paint the world as black and white, accentuating division and difference, and exploiting fears based on ignorance or prejudice.

"Education can be a powerful tool in tackling this. Giving young people the opportunity to learn about different cultures and faiths, and - crucially - to gain an understanding of the values we share, will also help to build mutual respect and tolerance from an early age and create an environment where extremism cannot flourish."

Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra, an imam who is a member of the Muslim Council of Britain, said the creation of the group had been driven by Muslims rather than the government.

"We felt we needed something of this nature to help create a better structured approach to how we are educating our children,'' he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We feel our children need to be taught that they can be proud Muslims and proud young British people.

"Anything that helps to make our communities stronger should be welcomed - provided that it's not used to isolate, control or change what a community is."

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Keltoi
07-18-2008, 09:44 PM
Understanding the principles of citizenship is very important for any country. If a measure like this works to build up more feelings of "belonging" amongst Muslim youth I think it is a good idea. Of course measures like this benefit all citizens and not just Muslim ones.
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Fishman
07-18-2008, 09:52 PM
:sl:
I don't think it will work. Either it will contain Islamically objectionable things or n00bs will go around telling everybody that it does.
:w:
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Cabdullahi
07-18-2008, 10:02 PM
I think i quite agree with this but the government needs to find the root problem of extremism in the UK. the root problem is foreign policy,what ever course they give,whatever lessons they implement,so long as muslims are dying abroad then terrorism and extremism will be there.Muslim youth dont need sheikhs with extreme views to make them radicalised all they have to do is switch on the tv and see the bloodshed of the palestinians,iraqis and afghans
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Eric H
07-19-2008, 12:11 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Ahmedjunior;

I was never in agreement that Britain should invade Afghanistan, and I Believe their decision to invade Iraq was wrong. Thousands of innocent people have been killed with no hope of justice; Britain and America have created a whole new generation of terrorists, because the victims families will not get justice.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

Eric
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Keltoi
07-19-2008, 12:42 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you Ahmedjunior;

I was never in agreement that Britain should invade Afghanistan, and I Believe their decision to invade Iraq was wrong. Thousands of innocent people have been killed with no hope of justice; Britain and America have created a whole new generation of terrorists, because the victims families will not get justice.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

Eric
What about the justice for the thousands of Americans who died on September 11th, killed by an organization supported and protected by the Taliban regime? Did they not deserve justice? Not that I believe war brings justice, but it is a word you used. Just a reminder that Muslims aren't the only one's looking for "justice".
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highlander
07-19-2008, 08:33 AM
Keltoi, you still believe it wasn't an inside job? or let's say part islamic extremists part inside job?

Attaking Iraq and Afganistan is what they were planning for a long time most prob...but just didn't have the motiv. After 9/11, there's your reason to invade whomever you want.
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Eric H
07-19-2008, 08:45 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Keltoi;

9/11 was wrong and I do not condone what happened, but after 9/11 fairness and justice had to be seen to be done. It might make Americans feel better by terrorising two countries, but where is fairness and justice for the innocent Afghan and Iraqis killed, the farmers, factory workers, kids and pensioners.

Bush was elected president of America and he represents America, the law, justice and fairness of a democratically elected government. In theory you should not see many similarities in the way a terrorist and an elected government seek justice.

Osama is not the elected government, he does not represent Afghanistan, he is said to be a gangster and kills innocent people. If Osama and his terrorists were hiding out in Oklahoma, would Bush have ordered Oklahoma to be bombed in the hope of wiping out Osama and his organisation?

And then there is Iraq, and that has never made any sense to me

Two wrongs leave room for a third wrong, hence we have a new generation of potential terrorists.

In the spirit of praying for justice, fairness and peace on Earth
Eric
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Uthman
07-19-2008, 11:12 AM
Here is a link to the BBC article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/7514985.stm

There is a short video on the page.
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Keltoi
07-19-2008, 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you Keltoi;

9/11 was wrong and I do not condone what happened, but after 9/11 fairness and justice had to be seen to be done. It might make Americans feel better by terrorising two countries, but where is fairness and justice for the innocent Afghan and Iraqis killed, the farmers, factory workers, kids and pensioners.

Bush was elected president of America and he represents America, the law, justice and fairness of a democratically elected government. In theory you should not see many similarities in the way a terrorist and an elected government seek justice.

Osama is not the elected government, he does not represent Afghanistan, he is said to be a gangster and kills innocent people. If Osama and his terrorists were hiding out in Oklahoma, would Bush have ordered Oklahoma to be bombed in the hope of wiping out Osama and his organisation?

And then there is Iraq, and that has never made any sense to me

Two wrongs leave room for a third wrong, hence we have a new generation of potential terrorists.

In the spirit of praying for justice, fairness and peace on Earth
Eric
If the state government of Oklahoma knowingly and actively supported a terrorist organization which killed nearly 3,000 Americans, that government becomes an enemy of the United States.

The question then is, what is to be done about it? From a military standpoint, the next phase is fairly clear. Destroy that government. Can you destroy the government infrastructure of a nation without inflicting civilian casualties? It is very difficult. Especially with the amount of munitions the Air Force can drop in a five minute period.

Then you have to factor in the Northern Alliance, who had quite a blood feud going on with the Taliban. Can you stop them from taking revenge on civilians? Probably not.

It was a nasty situation, and the U.S. must accept responsibility for those civilians who were killed in the crossfire. In reality though, there was no other way for this scenario to play out. Americans wanted justice, meaning blood of course. If Bush hadn't attacked Afghanistan they would have set the White House on fire and put Rush Limbaugh in office.

Iraq is an entirely different situation, one that I didn't support either. However, now that we are there we might as well try to make some good come out of it.
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Amadeus85
07-19-2008, 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
I think i quite agree with this but the government needs to find the root problem of extremism in the UK. the root problem is foreign policy,what ever course they give,whatever lessons they implement,so long as muslims are dying abroad then terrorism and extremism will be there.Muslim youth dont need sheikhs with extreme views to make them radicalised all they have to do is switch on the tv and see the bloodshed of the palestinians,iraqis and afghans
Terroristic attacks also happen in Indonesia, in Turkey, in Egypt, Holland (killing of van Gogh), Algeria, Morocco and also other places. So dont tell me that it is all about Iraq or Israel.
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YusufNoor
07-19-2008, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
What about the justice for the thousands of Americans who died on September 11th, killed by an organization supported and protected by the Taliban regime?

how long has the Bush regime been "supported and protected" by the Taliban?


Did they not deserve justice?

perhaps justice "begins at home!"

Not that I believe war brings justice, but it is a word you used. Just a reminder that Muslims aren't the only one's looking for "justice".

you won't find much of anything with your eyes closed!

Peace Keltoi,

when are you going to wake up and smell the coffee? 911 was an inside job, the Trade Towers 1, 2 AND 7 were taken down in controlled demolitions. there is no evidence that a "plane" hit the Pentagon, but a nice clean missile hole.

google David Ray Griffin and watch his videos. google "911 Mysteries Part 1 the Demolitions" google "Loose Change II"

and if you imagine that the Bush administration gives a single hoot about the American boys and girls they have put in peril, google "Beyond Treason" and watch.

you musn't confuse Fascists with Patriots [it only insults the Patriots].

:w:
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Keltoi
07-19-2008, 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by YusufNoor
Peace Keltoi,

when are you going to wake up and smell the coffee? 911 was an inside job, the Trade Towers 1, 2 AND 7 were taken down in controlled demolitions. there is no evidence that a "plane" hit the Pentagon, but a nice clean missile hole.

google David Ray Griffin and watch his videos. google "911 Mysteries Part 1 the Demolitions" google "Loose Change II"

and if you imagine that the Bush administration gives a single hoot about the American boys and girls they have put in peril, google "Beyond Treason" and watch.

you musn't confuse Fascists with Patriots [it only insults the Patriots].

:w:
Sorry, I don't deal with conspiracy theories.
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Cabdullahi
07-19-2008, 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Terroristic attacks also happen in Indonesia, in Turkey, in Egypt, Holland (killing of van Gogh), Algeria, Morocco and also other places. So dont tell me that it is all about Iraq or Israel.
We are talking about Britain here in case you forgot and almost most of the 'alleged' terrorists that are caught say that they were angered at the british government for its stance on foreign policy.

The IRA would put the 7/7 bombers to shame in terms of attacks and damage,nobody has bombed london more than THE IRA but we never call them 'Christian terrorists'
Those that commit these evil acts are just criminals who happen to be muslim but the media does perfect in scaring the citizens by making them believe that the situation is shocking and there are threats from everywhere but that is not the case.I call it the paracetamol approach why? because whenever the British people feel some sympathy for iraq, afghanistan and turn their heads against the government that is when the media backed by the government use the the paracetamol effect by exaggerating things about muslim and terror,this then gives an instant relief to the british people that the government needs the troops in iraq and afghansitan but how do the troops know or differentiate the civilians from the criminals do the taleban have a big badge on their chest saying im from taleban come and kill me the answer is no

If the government wants to stop terrorism in the UK even though it was just one or two attacks :rolleyes: after the country invaded iraq :thumbs_do then what they could do is bring the troops home and orchestrate an operation with the aid of muslims (because we do want to help!) to stop terrorism and i will tell you it wouldnt take 3 weeks to absolutely target and demolish terrorsim and extremesim both together,people might think im crazy by saying 3 weeks but i am saying this for a reason because the threat is so small
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Fishman
07-19-2008, 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Terroristic attacks also happen in Indonesia, in Turkey, in Egypt, Holland (killing of van Gogh), Algeria, Morocco and also other places. So dont tell me that it is all about Iraq or Israel.
:sl:
Indonesia: Islamised seperatist groups

Turkey: Seperatist groups

Egypt: Terrorists who are annoyed with how friendly the country is with the west and Israel, or are opposed to the government

Holland: Same as Britain

Algeria: Stems from independence movement against France, the main terror group is a splinter from the independence movement which was too moderate for them.

Morocco: No idea, probably the same as Egypt.
:w:
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Uthman
07-19-2008, 07:37 PM
Is the problem of 'radicalisation' really that bad here in Britain?
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S_87
07-19-2008, 08:26 PM
my sister already gets citizenship lessons.
thats not going to tackle extremism though :?
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Keltoi
07-19-2008, 08:43 PM
I think the idea is to help Muslim kids, and hopefully all kids, feel more empowered and knowledgable about their role as citizens. If targeted directly towards Muslim kids it might help to lessen the "outsider" feeling that I'm sure many Muslims do have when they live in the West.
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chacha_jalebi
07-19-2008, 10:46 PM
aint citizenship lessons for freshys?

and these so called "muslim representatives" who cares about them, no one has even heard of them, let alone see them, i dont understand how they represent muslims lol

anyway, i think this is a load of rubbish, surely if they are born in the UK, they are already citizens, then why need the citizenship test!

they are spendin money on this crap citizenship thin, when loads of people are gettin stabbed, murderers and peadophiles are runnin lose, how about sort that out and then indulge in summin else psssh, i should be president :D
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Whatsthepoint
07-19-2008, 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
The IRA would put the 7/7 bombers to shame in terms of attacks and damage,nobody has bombed london more than THE IRA but we never call them 'Christian terrorists'
Come on, I though this would have been cleared up by now.
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Keltoi
07-20-2008, 06:48 AM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Come on, I though this would have been cleared up by now.
Oh you mean that pesky detail that the IRA were using terrorism in an attempt to end British rule and never claimed they represented Christianity?

Thankfully the IRA learned that their methods were doing more harm than good.
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north_malaysian
07-20-2008, 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Terroristic attacks also happen in Indonesia, in Turkey, in Egypt, Holland (killing of van Gogh), Algeria, Morocco and also other places. So dont tell me that it is all about Iraq or Israel.
in Sri Lanka and Spain too...
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aamirsaab
07-20-2008, 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by Osman
Is the problem of 'radicalisation' really that bad here in Britain?
Not in Leicester at least. I mean, you still get the word 'paki' thrown around but I myself haven't heard anything worse. Might also be because I don't shout 'kafir' at the top of my lungs whilst walking down the high street.
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