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north_malaysian
07-22-2008, 06:01 AM
Withdraw For Peace, Brown Tells Israel

IslamOnline.net & News Agencies

OCCUPIED JERUSALEM — British Prime Minister Gordon Brown became the first British premier to address the Israeli Knesset on Monday, July 21, calling for Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank and establishing Al-Quds (occupied Jerusalem) as the capital of both Palestinian and Israeli states.

Satellite?blobcolurldata&ampblobheaderimage2Fjpeg&ampblobkeyid&ampblobtableMungoBlobs&ampblobwhere1216636285331&ampssbinarytrue - Brown called for Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank and establishing Al-Quds (as the capital of both Palestinian and Israeli states. (Reuters)




















"Today there is one historic challenge you still have to resolve so that your 60-year journey into the future is complete: peace with your neighbors and throughout the region," Brown told the Knesset, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP).

To deliver such a deal, "it is vital also that both sides now create the conditions for a final agreement," Brown said.

Brown, on his first visit to Israel and the West Bank since becoming prime minister in June 2007, called on Israel to freeze settlement construction and withdraw from the West Bank.

"It would require Israel freezing, and withdrawing from, settlements and like many of your friends, I urge you to make these decisions," he said, drawing a shout from one person in the chamber.

Israel's settlement activities have been one of the main obstacles to the Middle East peace process.

Israel is pushing ahead with plans to build hundreds more homes in the occupied West Bank, infuriating Palestinians and drawing international criticism.

The international community considers all Israeli settlements on occupied Palestinian land illegal.

"As a constant friend of Israel, I want to offer the comfort of my support and the support of the British government -- and also my honest analysis," Brown said.

"I believe that a historic, hard-won and lasting peace that can bring security on the ground is within your grasp... I urge you to take it by the hand."

Al-Quds

Brown said creating a Palestinian state to live beside Israel with both sharing al-Quds as their capital will be the key to peace in the Middle East.

This would entail "a democratic Israel, secure from attack, recognized by and at peace with all its neighbors alongside a peaceful, democratic and territorially viable state of Palestine that accepts you as its friend and partner."

Jerusalem would be the "capital for both," and there would be a "just and agreed settlement for refugees," he added.

Israel captured Al-Quds in the six-day 1967 war before annexing and declaring it part of its eternal undivided capital, a claim not recognized by the UN or the world community.

The holy city is home to Al-Haram Al-Sharif, which includes Islam's third holiest shrine Al-Aqsa Mosque, and represents the heart of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Palestinians insist the holy city will be the capital of their future state.

Iran

Brown warned Iran, Israel's arch foe, with further sanctions if it failed to halt its nuclear program.

"Our country will continue to lead, with the United States and our European partners, in our determination to prevent an Iranian nuclear weapons program.

"We stand ready to lead in taking further sanctions and will ask the whole international community to join us."

The six major power, the US, Britain, France, Germany, Russia and China, have offered Iran financial and diplomatic incentives to halt its nuclear program.

After talks in Geneva ended in stalemate on Saturday, the major powers gave Iran two weeks to answer calls to rein in its nuclear activities or face tougher sanctions.

British government officials with Brown said sanctions would be ratcheted up against Iran, possibly including sanctions on the oil and gas industry, if Tehran failed to halt its nuclear program.

They said such sanctions could seek to target Iran's domestic energy market by making it difficult for Iran to obtain equipment and spare parts for its refineries.

The West fears that Iran is developing a nuclear bomb, but Tehran says its nuclear program aims at generating energy for a growing population.

"Iran has a clear choice to make: suspend its nuclear weapons program and accept our offer of negotiations or face growing isolation and the collective response, not just of one nation, but of all nations aground the world," said Brown.

Source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout
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Izyan
07-22-2008, 12:08 PM
Withdrawing from the West Bank and Al-Quds would do nothing. Islam cannot give one inch of land. Israel would still be considered occupied land and the resistance will still continue. Personally I would give the West Bank back with Jerusalem being governed by a council of the 3 major religions. After that any attacks on Israel would be an act of war by a state and Israel should react as such.
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north_malaysian
07-22-2008, 12:59 PM
there are three solutions for Jerusalem:

1) co-administration by both Israel and Palestine
2) divide it again - East Jerusalem to Palestinians, West Jerusalem to Israelis
3) Governed by a neutral party ie. UN
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Izyan
07-22-2008, 01:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
there are three solutions for Jerusalem:

1) co-administration by both Israel and Palestine
2) divide it again - East Jerusalem to Palestinians, West Jerusalem to Israelis
3) Governed by a neutral party ie. UN
1) Won't work because they can't even work together on simple border crossings

2) Bad idea because it lead to destruction of Mosques, Churches, Synagoges and uprisings the last time

3) Best bet
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Keltoi
07-22-2008, 02:18 PM
Izyan brings up an interesting point. When and if the Palestinian state is established, any attack upon Israel afterward would be considered an act of war by a nation state. This could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending upon what happens. It could be a good thing if it sees the end of suicide bombings and rocket attacks. It could be a bad thing if those attacks do not stop.
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Whatsthepoint
07-22-2008, 02:22 PM
Someone said Jerusalem would make a fine parking lot...
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The_Prince
07-22-2008, 04:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
Withdrawing from the West Bank and Al-Quds would do nothing. Islam cannot give one inch of land. Israel would still be considered occupied land and the resistance will still continue. Personally I would give the West Bank back with Jerusalem being governed by a council of the 3 major religions. After that any attacks on Israel would be an act of war by a state and Israel should react as such.
thats why we make a 10 year truce, and then extend it etc and gather strength nukes etc :) then launch an attack and take it back. :okay:
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aamirsaab
07-22-2008, 04:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
there are three solutions for Jerusalem:

1) co-administration by both Israel and Palestine
2) divide it again - East Jerusalem to Palestinians, West Jerusalem to Israelis
3) Governed by a neutral party ie. UN
Option 1 - Israel won't give palestine that power. Ever.
Option 2 - The country has already been divided; more division = more conflict.

Only option 3 is advisable. However, the israel and palestine conflict runs through 3 main areas: history, politics and religion. With stubborn folk on either side, the normal folk (both israeli and palestinian) get caught up in a whirlwind of horsecrap, governed by their leaders. It's not a simple thing anymore: the war has lasted 60 or so years - ceasefires won't (and don't) work until someone really does stop the fighting alltogether.

I hate to admit this (really, if there's one thing I hate about myself, it is being right about negatives!) but I honestly don't see how peace will be achieved in that land. Not whilst Israel is continually supported (both in terms of arms and in terms of social support) in every action but palestine is condemned for the same - heck, sometimes palestine doesn't do anything and it's still given flak (and it's definately not got any support from muslim countries that can actually do something about it, namely saudi arabia!)
:cry:
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Brother_Mujahid
07-22-2008, 04:50 PM
Why settle for less?

if you had something stolen from you, then was abused and violently beaten down trodden, forced to way below the poverty line.

Wouldn't you want back what was stolen AND compensation.

The only solution or at the very least ALL stolen land and property should be given back.

only then will there ever be real peace.
Reply

Izyan
07-22-2008, 05:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
thats why we make a 10 year truce, and then extend it etc and gather strength nukes etc :) then launch an attack and take it back. :okay:
And why would Israel agree to that kind of truce?
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Izyan
07-22-2008, 05:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Brother_Mujahid
Why settle for less?

if you had something stolen from you, then was abused and violently beaten down trodden, forced to way below the poverty line.

Wouldn't you want back what was stolen AND compensation.

The only solution or at the very least ALL stolen land and property should be given back.

only then will there ever be real peace.
Thank you, you just proved my point why it wouldn't work
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The_Prince
07-22-2008, 05:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
And why would Israel agree to that kind of truce?
because they will.
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Izyan
07-22-2008, 05:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
because they will.
What make you think they will?
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The_Prince
07-22-2008, 05:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
What make you think they will?
it will happen soon soon, and i know they will, theyre doing it now in a small way, the next step will be making the palestinian state. and the palestinians will be smart and lay low, organize, equip, get much much stronger and then seize the day, it might be 10 years, maybe 20, or maybe 50.

infact another tactic that can also be used, is wait 50 years, arm and become very strong, and get the bonus addition that in 50 years time Israel will have a very high Arab population who will most likely be the majority or equal with the Israelis inside Israel, and then those Arabs could make a revolution and overthrow the zionist regime and turn Israel into an Arab Islamic country. :D either way the future doesnt look too good for these zionists, the days of 48 and 63 are over and gone my friends.
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Whatsthepoint
07-22-2008, 06:58 PM
[QUOTE]
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
it will happen soon soon, and i know they will, theyre doing it now in a small way, the next step will be making the palestinian state. and the palestinians will be smart and lay low, organize, equip, get much much stronger and then seize the day, it might be 10 years, maybe 20, or maybe 50.
They can't hide from Mossad. And of course, Israel too will develop their already superior military and ,ilitary industry, they'll get stronger, they're well organised already. Besides, and I don't mean to cause offense, the Palestinian people have not been overly smart, as you put it, in the past, so it's hard to expect they'll ever turn into a military superpower able to counter Israel. They seem to prefer fighting amongst each other.
infact another tactic that can also be used, is wait 50 years, arm and become very strong, and get the bonus addition that in 50 years time Israel will have a very high Arab population who will most likely be the majority or equal with the Israelis inside Israel, and then those Arabs could make a revolution and overthrow the zionist regime and turn Israel into an Arab Islamic country. :D either way the future doesnt look too good for these zionists, the days of 48 and 63 are over and gone my friends.
This is probably the only way Palestinians will ever regain their land and seems quite plausible at the moment. It doesn't necessarily have to be a revolution, when PAlestinians reach the majority, they could simply vote for Palestinian parties which would eventually form the government and declare an independent Palestine or something.
Some of the orthodox parties in the Knesset have suggested that the areas with high Arab population be annexed to the new Palestinian state, so the percentage of the Arab population, which today is about 20%, would decrease.
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AlbanianMuslim
07-22-2008, 07:17 PM
good news
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Whatsthepoint
07-22-2008, 07:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
good news
It's a suggestion, nothing more. There have been dozens and dozens already and neither Israel nor Palestine did anything.
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The_Prince
07-22-2008, 07:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
It's a suggestion, nothing more. There have been dozens and dozens already and neither Israel nor Palestine did anything.
whats the point
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north_malaysian
07-23-2008, 04:17 AM
Option #4 - give Jerusalem to the Japanese...:okay:
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Eric H
07-23-2008, 07:18 AM
Greatings and peace be with you Whatsthepoint;
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
It's a suggestion, nothing more. There have been dozens and dozens already and neither Israel nor Palestine did anything.
Seems a bit like Iraq, there has been lots of pressure for Gordon Brown to take the British troops out.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

Eric
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Sahabiyaat
07-23-2008, 07:23 AM
their will never be real peace

they will never return all of the land, ever, ever. and the fighting will continue :(
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Izyan
07-23-2008, 12:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sahabiyaat
their will never be real peace

they will never return all of the land, ever, ever. and the fighting will continue :(
Why should they give everything back? Where are they to go if they do? Why is it that only the Jews not allowed their own homeland?
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Sahabiyaat
07-23-2008, 06:04 PM
ur joking ryt :muddlehea

i think the jews existed somewhere as a diaspora before they started flooding into palestine and killing innocent muslims!

Sure everyone has a a right to a place to live, a ' collective homeland' im not sure, if u dnt have one, dnt go steal it off someone and kill and torture those people for it!!!!

i just HATE it when jewish men and women on Tv shurg their shoulders when asked, where the palestinians should go, and just say with complete indifference and a grin, 'I' dont know!, they can go anywhere but here'!, ooo u feel like giving um a gud hard smack that shud hurt for a week!

it hurts so much to see their despair :cry:
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Keltoi
07-23-2008, 06:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sahabiyaat
ur joking ryt :muddlehea

i think the jews existed somewhere as a diaspora before they started flooding into palestine and killing innocent muslims!

Sure everyone has a a right to a place to live, a ' collective homeland' im not sure, if u dnt have one, dnt go steal it off someone and kill and torture those people for it!!!!

i just HATE it when jewish men and women on Tv shurg their shoulders when asked, where the palestinians should go, and just say with complete indifference and a grin, 'I' dont know!, they can go anywhere but here'!, ooo u feel like giving um a gud hard smack that shud hurt for a week!

it hurts so much to see their despair :cry:
Jews have lived in Palestine for over 1,000 years, probably much over that. I think what you mean to say is that Zionism caused many European Jews to move to Palestine to create a Jewish homeland, and in the process displaced the Arab population. A displacement that was increased due to the 1967 War.

It's a valid criticism of course, but that isn't going to change the reality that a Jewish state exists and is not going anywhere for a long, long while. There are going to have to be compromises on both sides to put an end to this conflict.
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Sahabiyaat
07-23-2008, 08:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Jews have lived in Palestine for over 1,000 years, probably much over that. I think what you mean to say is that Zionism caused many European Jews to move to Palestine to create a Jewish homeland, and in the process displaced the Arab population. A displacement that was increased due to the 1967 War.

It's a valid criticism of course, but that isn't going to change the reality that a Jewish state exists and is not going anywhere for a long, long while. There are going to have to be compromises on both sides to put an end to this conflict.
lol

how ironic, the language u use!

my point is just a 'criticism' but ur point is called a 'reality'.

well hear this matey, the displacement of palestinians is a REALITY too! and much bigger reality than the state of israel, an illegal state, which no muslim will ever accept, being built on the corpses of innocent humans. what a state!.

its intersting, ur christian right ? hmm.

i'd just love for you to be put into a palestinians shoes,have everything taken from you, ur family killed and you destitue and alone, even if for just one day, i doubt it you would call the state of israel a 'reality' and ur suffering a 'valid criticism' :sunny:
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Keltoi
07-23-2008, 10:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sahabiyaat
lol

how ironic, the language u use!

my point is just a 'criticism' but ur point is called a 'reality'.

well hear this matey, the displacement of palestinians is a REALITY too! and much bigger reality than the state of israel, an illegal state, which no muslim will ever accept, being built on the corpses of innocent humans. what a state!.

its intersting, ur christian right ? hmm.

i'd just love for you to be put into a palestinians shoes,have everything taken from you, ur family killed and you destitue and alone, even if for just one day, i doubt it you would call the state of israel a 'reality' and ur suffering a 'valid criticism' :sunny:
The state of Israel is a reality. The displacement of Palestinian refugees is a reality. That is a reality both sides are going to have to come to terms with. Saying Israel is "built on the corpses of innocent humans" is a criticism, perhaps valid from a certain point of view. Denying Israel's right to exist at this point will only make that "pile of corpses" alot higher.

Negotiation and compromise is the only solution. Saying "no Muslim will ever accept" Israel is not a solution, it is just an excuse to create more corpses. Is that what you want?
Reply

ayan333
07-23-2008, 10:42 PM
:sl:

i get disgusted when anyone even trys to in ny way side or slightly agree with anything they do....its so sad wht their gov is doin to innocent plp

im pretty sure you've all seen this but for those who havent take a look..
take your pick

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YWWgBeYN0fg


http://youtube.com/watch?v=UhW7ug8ZRpM&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Uh1moUFNJQ&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JA358rGYzmI&feature=related

Graphic..he will be shot...watch the whole thing!!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5OEGnIwfkuw&feature=user


Mute these 2 first,it got music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lmfP9ZlJq4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VKQqItZu4Is&feature=related


http://youtube.com/watch?v=YWWgBeYN0fg


http://youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related
'
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yzZj889BA4A&feature=related

Human shield
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-ebMV1Jrx-s


http://youtube.com/watch?v=0hWDQs_sOSk


http://youtube.com/watch?v=DcQlAWo45No&feature=related



:w:
Reply

Keltoi
07-23-2008, 10:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ayan333
:sl:

i get disgusted when anyone even trys to in ny way side or slightly agree with anything they do....its so sad wht their gov is doin to innocent plp

im pretty sure you've all seen this but for those who havent take a look..
take your pick

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YWWgBeYN0fg

Mute these 2 first,it got music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lmfP9ZlJq4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VKQqItZu4Is&feature=related


http://youtube.com/watch?v=YWWgBeYN0fg


http://youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related
'
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yzZj889BA4A&feature=related

Human shield
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-ebMV1Jrx-s


http://youtube.com/watch?v=0hWDQs_sOSk


http://youtube.com/watch?v=DcQlAWo45No&feature=related



:w:
Innocent people have died on both sides. Pointing that out isn't "siding" with anyone.
Reply

ayan333
07-23-2008, 11:08 PM
can it get any worse?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGgrG...eature=related
Reply

Sahabiyaat
07-24-2008, 05:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Denying Israel's right to exist at this point will only make that "pile of corpses" alot higher.
wow

u sound so much like a jewish politician, deny us, and well kill more.

In Islam, 'oppression is worse than slaughter'. you would rather fight back and die than be forever oppressed.

so i guess yeah, muslims will carry on resisting oppression and injustice and the corpse pile will get higher....
Reply

Cabdullahi
07-24-2008, 05:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
Why should they give everything back? Where are they to go if they do? Why is it that only the Jews not allowed their own homeland?
What about the thousands if not millions of palestinian refugees who fled to lebanon and jordan,why cant they reside and live peacfully in palestine.
Reply

Izyan
07-25-2008, 01:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
What about the thousands if not millions of palestinian refugees who fled to lebanon and jordan,why cant they reside and live peacfully in palestine.
Who said they can't?
Reply

Keltoi
07-25-2008, 06:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
Who said they can't?
From my understanding, Israel refuses to allow those refugees to return. The key will be a Palestinian state, which can allow those refugees to return if they so choose. Israel refuses at this point for obvious reasons.
Reply

Izyan
07-25-2008, 07:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
From my understanding, Israel refuses to allow those refugees to return. The key will be a Palestinian state, which can allow those refugees to return if they so choose. Israel refuses at this point for obvious reasons.
I should have been more clear. Who say they can't come and live on palestinain land as defined by the 1967 borders?
Reply

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