PDA

View Full Version : Do You Believe in Karma ?



IbnAbdulHakim
07-29-2008, 10:01 AM
Peace and Assalamu Alaikum


Well i was speaking with some non-muslims who seem to strongly believe in Karma. Karma being you do good, get good back, do bad, get evil back ! What goes around comes around, that kinda thing.

I believe in Allaah so i know he will reward and punish as he see's fit... but it made me wonder. How many non muslims out there believe in karma? and why karma?
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Muslim Knight
07-29-2008, 10:17 AM
Kicking cats is bad karma
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-29-2008, 10:21 AM
^ lol what happens in return? you get kicked by a horse? ;D
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-29-2008, 10:22 AM
Originally Posted by good ol wiki
The philosophical explanation of karma can differ slightly between traditions, but the general concept is basically the same. Through the law of karma, the effects of all deeds actively create past, present, and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain and joy it brings to him/her and others. The results or 'fruits' of actions are called karma-phala. In religions that incorporate reincarnation, karma extends through one's present life and all past and future lives as well.
Lol i found that part a bit interesting, we could say if we sin on earth, we get punished in our future life ie akhirah via jahannam
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Muslim Knight
07-29-2008, 11:42 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ lol what happens in return? you get kicked by a horse? ;D
Not necessarily, bro.

On second thoughts, maybe I don't believe in karma. However I do believe in divine retribution and attribute of Allah being Al-Hakim Al-'Adl and since this world and all creation is His, we are all subject to His justice, which in His ultimate wisdom, knows when to punish, forgive, reward etc.

We are too small to understand His Ways. However consider this for an instance:

An accident. A truck and a small car. Both drivers were killed instantly. The small car had a family passenger and they were all injured seriously.

To the average mind, this has been most unfortunate. Some of us may even stoop so low to actually blame God for letting this happen. But neither of us can understand that this is part of the Divine Plan.

The driver of the truck may have been on his way to commit crime. He may have been planning to pick up some illegal package to be delivered to some organized crime & drug syndicate so that more people will suffer as result. God may have caused the accident because He wanted to prevent the man from committing the sin.

The driver of the small car may have been an 'alim and a salih. It was his time, after a life of piety, kindness and mercy. He may have been worthy of paradise so God decides he can have it sooner.

The injured family members. Ambulances come to rescue them. The rescue workers get paid for doing their job of rescuing people in pain and distress. It is the way God gets their bounty (rizqi) to them, ensuring that they have a job and a pay. It doesn't matter what people think how God should feed His creatures but that's how He is known as ar-Razaq, the Giver of Sustenance. It seems cruel in the eyes of average person, but it is necessary and God does not care what you think how He should administer His affairs. In addition to that, it gives lesson to the passerby and those who reflect (ulul albab). They learn that Allah gives life, and He can take it away in an instance, thus the mortality of men reminds us to be humble and always in remembrance of Him.

The orphans. They will be taken in by those who wish to adopt them and shower them with mercy. Again, God gives chance to people who wish to do Him service, and if it is not for Allah, it is for the betterment of other people who will be thankful to Allah. Allah reminds us in the Qur'an to be kind towards orphans, and to feed them and clothe them and not to selfishly spend their inheritance. We see the accident as cruel twist of fate, but it is in fact, the way Allah opens up opportunities for people to do good and earn His mercy.

And for us Muslims, death is not the end, but the beginning.
Reply

Eeman
07-29-2008, 11:45 AM
salam alaikum,

i personally have many friends that believe in karma and its their main focus or theology in life they accept and acknowledge the existance of God but yet seem to believe that what goes around comes around, i personally myself dont believe in karma and its concept in itself, i dont believe that if you do bad you get twice as bad in this world and if you do good you get twice as good in this world cos karma and its concept is very limited and a worldy theory that is limited to this temporary life.

my main believe is that if you do good yes Allah swt will multiply your rewards and will bless you in this life with goodness and your akhira and if you do bad then your earning Allah swt's wrath and you will get stricken with calamity for what your own hads have earned in this life and will also get what is due to you in proportion for the bad that your own hands have earned in the akhira.

i know some people that have been really evil towards me and done me bad for no reason and Wallah when i say this to you, they have gone through the same thing themselves only 3 times worse so it makes you think!!!
before when someone did me bad i'd turn to Allah swt and just ask him for justice i never asked or wished any bad to befall them but only justice for myself but now through what i have seen i dont even do that and when people mistreat me or are evil to me, revenge doesnt even cross my mind Wallah it never does cos i know that if i devouted my whole life to ruinig that persons life i would never achieve the justice that Allah swt would give me EVER so i just leave it to Him and hold my peace with everyone.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
07-29-2008, 11:48 AM
I don't.
Reply

Eeman
07-29-2008, 11:54 AM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I don't.
so what motivates you to do good?
Reply

Whatsthepoint
07-29-2008, 11:57 AM
Originally Posted by Eeman
so what motivates you to do good?
I don't know, first empathy, love etc, second I don't wanna get in trouble, doing good usually keeps you out of trouble.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-29-2008, 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I don't know, first empathy, love etc, second I don't wanna get in trouble, doing good usually keeps you out of trouble.
in that case your world is governed by dumb luck :|
Reply

Whatsthepoint
07-29-2008, 12:09 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
in that case your world is governed by dumb luck :|
Yeah, a lot is governed by luck.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-29-2008, 12:14 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Yeah, a lot is governed by luck.
isnt there a bit too much order for that to be the case?


also you said a lot, surely you meant all of it? :o
Reply

Whatsthepoint
07-29-2008, 12:14 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
isnt there a bit too much order for that to be the case?
What do you mean, order?

Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
also you said a lot, surely you meant all of it? :o
No, not all of it.
Reply

TrueStranger
07-29-2008, 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I don't know, first empathy, love etc, second I don't wanna get in trouble, doing good usually keeps you out of trouble.
What sort of trouble? And so what if you get in trouble, what is there to fear or for that matter who is there to fear?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-29-2008, 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
What do you mean, order?
the way the world works. The fact that we arent in constant horrific situations. The controlled nature, ie the consistent order of the seasons (there are NO two different orders for seasons in a year its always the same) same goes for the rising of the sun, the setting of the moon, its all in order.

Everything is in order, there is no chaos.




How can this all be by luck?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-29-2008, 12:18 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint

No, not all of it.

i should have made it clear that all human influence excluded, then what is not governed by luck in your understanding?
Reply

TrueStranger
07-29-2008, 12:19 PM
To answer the question

On numerous occasions the Prophet (PBUH) has eloquently advised Muslims, “If you show mercy to those who are on earth, He who is in heaven will show mercy to you.”


I seek Allah's Mercy for I'm in dire need of it.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-29-2008, 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by TrueStranger
To answer the question

On numerous occasions the Prophet (PBUH) has eloquently advised Muslims, “If you show mercy to those who are on earth, He who is in heaven will show mercy to you.”


I seek Allah's Mercy for I'm in dire need of it.
so you believe karma as in that Allaah rewards good with good.

I think there is also a saheeh hadith which states the same "what reward can there be for good but good". I dont remember if the evil was mentioned in the hadith or not?


Assalamu Alaikum
Reply

Whatsthepoint
07-29-2008, 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by TrueStranger
What sort of trouble? And so what if you get in trouble, what is there to fear or for that matter who is there to fear?
Doing bad can result in all sorts of trouble, staying out of them is simply more comfortable, less stressful.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
07-29-2008, 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
the way the world works. The fact that we arent in constant horrific situations. The controlled nature, ie the consistent order of the seasons (there are NO two different orders for seasons in a year its always the same) same goes for the rising of the sun, the setting of the moon, its all in order.

Everything is in order, there is no chaos.
How can this all be by luck?
There is chaos, however it's rather undetectable in large system such as the solar one.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
07-29-2008, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
i should have made it clear that all human influence excluded, then what is not governed by luck in your understanding?
Yeah, I guess.
Luck is simply a word for a favorable chain of events we do not have control over.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-29-2008, 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
There is chaos, however it's rather undetectable in large system such as the solar one.
in that case can it really be defined as chaos? Why cant it be suggested that theres order in what we conceive to be chaos (seeing as its undetected)

Chaos does exist, i wont deny it, but even chaos has an order... it seems to always come at a certain time, with a certain intent.


I guess an example could be the overpopulation of earth could invite natural disasters thus freeing up space and even possible giving new beginnings etc. Theres always a purpose


thats how i see it,



thanks for your answers whatsthepoint, appreciated :)
Reply

Whatsthepoint
07-29-2008, 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim

thanks for your answers whatsthepoint, appreciated :)
No problem, bro, if I may call you that.
Reply

TrueStranger
07-29-2008, 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
so you believe karma as in that Allaah rewards good with good.

I think there is also a saheeh hadith which states the same "what reward can there be for good but good". I dont remember if the evil was mentioned in the hadith or not?


Assalamu Alaikum
:w:

i see where you are coming from, but I won’t use the term Karma.

People think that their good actions generate good outcomes in the future.


I believe that Allah rewards those who do good as He Wills, and we are rewarded for the actions we sincerely do for Allah’s sake, while those who believe in “karma” do good actions for themselves, not for the sake of Allah.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-29-2008, 12:28 PM
^ mashaAllaah jizakAllah khair

much needed clarification

while those who believe in “karma” do good actions for themselves, not for the sake of Allah.
Reply

TrueStranger
07-29-2008, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Doing bad can result in all sorts of trouble, staying out of them is simply more comfortable, less stressful.
Is your "bad" defined by what your society or government labels as bad?

In other words, how do you define 'bad'?
Reply

Whatsthepoint
07-29-2008, 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Is your "bad" defined by what your society or government labels as bad?
Yeah.
However I do believe certain moral norms are common to most people and cultures, I have yet to find out though whether the reason is in ourselves as human beings, for instance because of our sense of empathy or some unexplained brain phenomena or in the way our societies are formed, so is the reason purely psychological, is it purely sociological, a mix of both...? Take into consideration that I don't believe in supernatural stuff, including god, soul etc.
Reply

TrueStranger
07-29-2008, 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ mashaAllaah jizakAllah khair

much needed clarification
What they consider to be good actions might be something that is appalling in the sight of Allah. Let’s say defending one’s country by illegally attacking and terrorizing poor nations that had nothing to do with 9/11. To them that is considered to be “good actions” and it is defined by their nationalistic view. The reward they seek is not from Allah, but from their fellow countrymen or people.

At the end of the day different people define good actions and bad actions differently, and our actions don’t testify to our intentions.

:w:
Reply

TrueStranger
07-29-2008, 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Yeah.
However I do believe certain moral norms are common to most people and cultures, I have yet to find out though whether the reason is in ourselves as human beings, for instance because of our sense of empathy or some unexplained brain phenomena or in the way our societies are formed, so is the reason purely psychological, is it purely sociological, a mix of both...? Take into consideration that I don't believe in supernatural stuff, including god, soul etc.
What a society and a government considers to be good or bad changes over time, so care to tell me what is the point of following ever-changing definitions that are established by our societies and governments?

Most moral norms are deeply rooted in religion, especially the Monotheistic religions. We are more likely to empathize with those who are like us, those we view to be “our kind”. Thou as humans there is a sense of likeness, and the differences between us are mostly created by our own prejudice or belief systems. And considering the way we humans treat each other, I don’t think there is much empathy going around.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
07-29-2008, 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by TrueStranger
What a society and a government considers to be good or bad changes over time, so care to tell me what is the point of following ever-changing definitions that are established by our societies and governments?

Most moral norms are deeply rooted in religion, especially the Monotheistic religions. We are more likely to empathize with those who are like us, those we view to be “our kind”. Thou as humans there is a sense of likeness, and the differences between us are mostly created by our own prejudice or belief systems. And considering the way we humans treat each other, I don’t think there is much empathy going around.
As I don't believe morals is something absolute, never-changing, the point of following the current one is as I said before, live a good life, stay out of trouble etc.
As much as I agree how morals and religion are connected, I don't agree morals derive from religion, religions are a reflection of social norms of the time they were created, with add-ons from their creators. Religions were and are a way to spread the genius of individuals who created them.
No, I do think are sense of morals is deeply connected with our sense of empathy. The way people only care for their own race, country, religion is more of a social product, thought it could be that we cannot emphasize with people who are not like us.
Reply

Ansariyah
07-29-2008, 01:03 PM
I am not a nonMuslim, but I strongly believe that if u wrong someone that u´ll get it back. Especially if u wrong someone innocent n never apologize.
Reply

Eeman
07-29-2008, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
As I don't believe morals is something absolute, never-changing, the point of following the current one is as I said before, live a good life, stay out of trouble etc.
As much as I agree how morals and religion are connected, I don't agree morals derive from religion, religions are a reflection of social norms of the time they were created, with add-ons from their creators. Religions were and are a way to spread the genius of individuals who created them.
No, I do think are sense of morals is deeply connected with our sense of empathy. The way people only care for their own race, country, religion is more of a social product, thought it could be that we cannot emphasize with people who are not like us.
WOAHHHHHH! bro im really sorry i didnt think that by one simple question you'd get attacked from left and right lol! not that im saying you guys are attacking him in a bad way. :statisfie
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-29-2008, 01:20 PM
^ lol im sure his enjoying the enlightening convo's :p
Reply

Eeman
07-29-2008, 01:29 PM
i think life is BEAUTIFUL, the more you give to people and do good without expecting an rewards in return and i mean no expectations!!!! cos it is with expectations that we get let down and hurt so no expectations no let downs and no feelings of pain, have firm believe that your rewards are with Him and so whatever you do, do for His sake and ask for your rewards off Him and the whole idea of life in this world in itself will make more sense and be more easy to go on with ad Insha'Allah more blessed.
Reply

TrueStranger
07-29-2008, 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
As I don't believe morals is something absolute, never-changing, the point of following the current one is as I said before, live a good life, stay out of trouble etc.
As much as I agree how morals and religion are connected, I don't agree morals derive from religion, religions are a reflection of social norms of the time they were created, with add-ons from their creators. Religions were and are a way to spread the genius of individuals who created them.
No, I do think are sense of morals is deeply connected with our sense of empathy. The way people only care for their own race, country, religion is more of a social product, thought it could be that we cannot emphasize with people who are not like us.
I understand your thinking process.

Islamic morals are certainly absolute, since our morals and principles are established by Islam. The concept of being rewarded or punished for right conduct is something that is deeply established in monotheistic religions. Hell and Paradise give evidence to that. The regulations of right conduct are established by the laws decreed by Allah. The morals which you supposedly uphold might keep you out of trouble, but that doesn’t mean that they are “good”. They are only good in the sense that it is accepted to be good by the society you live in. Your troubles are defined by how well you obey and follow the laws and regulations that are imposed on you by your society.


If anything religion does nothing but educate man about his Lord, his purpose and his existence as a human. And religion establishes laws, policies, and limits that are above any social norm. Our social norms are culturally rooted, they aren’t religious. That is why you will see in many Muslim countries they try to interlock culture with Islam, and it does not work.

Religion is able to fuse together people from different societies that are different culturally and ethnically because religion in essence reminds man of his Lord, and Creator, and at the end they only have One God.
Reply

fatima_01
07-29-2008, 02:34 PM
the sayin is basically wat goes around comes around its simple :p
Reply

crayon
07-29-2008, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Yeah, a lot is governed by luck.
You shouldn't just leave things to chance.... (have you seen the dark knight?:D)
Reply

SixTen
07-29-2008, 05:20 PM
In Islam, it is stated that, if you grieve your parents - your children will grieve you in future. Just 1 example of many Im sure, of karma'ishness (take that Oxford Dictionary!)
Reply

K.Venugopal
08-08-2008, 11:03 AM
Karma means action and all actions entail reactions - a cause and effect continuum. The idea is to be free from this continuum of action and reaction, which tends to kick us around like football. The problem though is not with action per se, but with the state of our mind, which is either motivated or spontaneous. Motivated action, which causes all our problems, is born out of our sense of lack. When we are freed from this sense of lack through spiritual practices, our actions become spontaneous. Spontaneous action leads to harmony of the individual as well as society.

The idea that we have to do good so that good will come upon us is an idea that is still at the level of ‘lack’. When we reach the level of ‘no-lack’, we would do good because goodness is our essential nature. We would not need any reward for doing good.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-11-2012, 04:57 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-14-2011, 04:02 PM
  3. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-05-2009, 04:01 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-28-2007, 07:12 PM
  5. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-23-2007, 10:38 PM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!