Marriage difficulties

[TotalControl]

:sl:

I would like to introduce myself. My name is Ikram Hussain and i am 24 years old. I am a Sunni and my parents are of Pakistani descent from an area near to Rawalpindi. It has been about a year since my Iman has become a lot stronger and I thank Allah (SWT) for the strength he gives me to make my Iman even clearer. However, there are always going to be situations where you will have to learn Islam to understand it better. Hence why i am writing to you.

I have been married for 7 years now to my wife who is my cousin (her mother is my mothers sister and her father is my fathers brother. My mother and father are also cousins). She is five years older than me. We have two wonderful boys (4.5 and 3). The thing is, we have never really got on.

It all started on 20th March 2000 when my parents told me that i would be marrying in pakistan. I was 15! I did not want to marry but i was told to do it or leave (in nice words). My mother, father, uncle and aunty (not her parents, but her uncle and aunty also) all pressured me into this. Alas, on 27 July 2001 i went to pakistan and had my nuptual agreement. The situation wasnt nice but i gave in. With no sense of direction and no one to help.

The Nikah, as i understand, was done but i did notice my date of birth being changed to make me look 18 instead of 17. I did not sleep with her there and merely came back in the hope, and thought, that the worst was over and i would never have to think of it again. I was hidden from the truth of knowing what a marriage was and had nothing to be with her as i was still at school.

I have known another woman who is also muslim for 6 years and we both collectively have agreed that marriage is the way forward for us. We have strong feelings for each other and would inshallah like to continue them for the rest of our lifes. This woman is the same age as me and understands me very well. She has also in the past supported me with this marriage and stopped me from killing myself and given me the Iman i have with me today.

My wife came to England after 1.5 years and several dozen fake payslips for me later. Both of our children that have been born were both asked for by my wife. She did not listen to me as i told her i was not willing to have children yet. It got to a point where she cried and begged me for them. I gave in.

Fast forward to 2008 and just 1 month ago i have lost my daughter (at birth). It was expected but came about in the wrong way. This was done by our mistake as i was asleep on the last day of ramadan and stated i was fasting and did not want her to come near me. So she did, when i was asleep. It was stupid for me to break my fast how i did and regret it dearly. I did not want to have another child but my wife did not abort when we first found out (at 3 weeks) as she wanted to prove her point. It supposedly is the easy way to obtain a coucil house!

The situation now that arises is that i want to get married again to this other woman. However, if i just divorce my current wife from english law and keep the nikah, would this be valid as i do not wish to sleep with my current wife and have any responsibility over her. Reason being is because we both know that we are together for the children and the children only. The only reason i ask this is because of the pakistani community and family situations and perceptions dont seem to be right. I know the right thing to do would be to divorce but we have 2 children together and i would like to get out of this hastle free. I do not want this marriage to interfere with my next. I also accept that i will never be able to treat both wives fairly. I am very confused in my next steps in life and am not getting any straight answers from anyone regarding this issue.

I am sorry for the long message, but feel that you should know everything before you can comment fairly. Thank you for your time and patience regarding my issue.

:w:

[Woodrow]

Thread moved from another section. Please offer the brother any advice of value to help him.

[arabianprincess]

salam wa 3lykom


welll if i was u i would divorce her since u cant be fair ... second of all if i was in here place i dont want my husband to be with me for the sake of my kids.. i would want him to divorce me .. i mean this is just the way out.. n i mean always visit ur kids n be with em ... n treat them fair... with the other kids u ll have in the future... n it was a mistake for ur parents to marry u off at that age n to someone u dont really know nor want n i mean actually wasnt readu for marriage . alot of ppl i knw have that same problem but al hamduallah everything is okay now . but wats done is done so all u gotta do is estkhara n then decide actually go n see a imam he ll help u out for sure.. inshallah salamzzz

[Tania]

Talk with your wife about divorce and the rights what she will have if she agrees with it: you will provide her money and the children will remain with her.

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[Faye]

:sl:

I would like to introduce myself. My name is Ikram Hussain and i am 24 years old. I am a Sunni and my parents are of Pakistani descent from an area near to Rawalpindi. It has been about a year since my Iman has become a lot stronger and I thank Allah (SWT) for the strength he gives me to make my Iman even clearer. However, there are always going to be situations where you will have to learn Islam to understand it better. Hence why i am writing to you.

I have been married for 7 years now to my wife who is my cousin (her mother is my mothers sister and her father is my fathers brother. My mother and father are also cousins). She is five years older than me. We have two wonderful boys (4.5 and 3). The thing is, we have never really got on.

It all started on 20th March 2000 when my parents told me that i would be marrying in pakistan. I was 15! I did not want to marry but i was told to do it or leave (in nice words). My mother, father, uncle and aunty (not her parents, but her uncle and aunty also) all pressured me into this. Alas, on 27 July 2001 i went to pakistan and had my nuptual agreement. The situation wasnt nice but i gave in. With no sense of direction and no one to help.

The Nikah, as i understand, was done but i did notice my date of birth being changed to make me look 18 instead of 17. I did not sleep with her there and merely came back in the hope, and thought, that the worst was over and i would never have to think of it again. I was hidden from the truth of knowing what a marriage was and had nothing to be with her as i was still at school.

I have known another woman who is also muslim for 6 years and we both collectively have agreed that marriage is the way forward for us. We have strong feelings for each other and would inshallah like to continue them for the rest of our lifes. This woman is the same age as me and understands me very well. She has also in the past supported me with this marriage and stopped me from killing myself and given me the Iman i have with me today.

My wife came to England after 1.5 years and several dozen fake payslips for me later. Both of our children that have been born were both asked for by my wife. She did not listen to me as i told her i was not willing to have children yet. It got to a point where she cried and begged me for them. I gave in.

Fast forward to 2008 and just 1 month ago i have lost my daughter (at birth). It was expected but came about in the wrong way. This was done by our mistake as i was asleep on the last day of ramadan and stated i was fasting and did not want her to come near me. So she did, when i was asleep. It was stupid for me to break my fast how i did and regret it dearly. I did not want to have another child but my wife did not abort when we first found out (at 3 weeks) as she wanted to prove her point. It supposedly is the easy way to obtain a coucil house!

The situation now that arises is that i want to get married again to this other woman. However, if i just divorce my current wife from english law and keep the nikah, would this be valid as i do not wish to sleep with my current wife and have any responsibility over her. Reason being is because we both know that we are together for the children and the children only. The only reason i ask this is because of the pakistani community and family situations and perceptions dont seem to be right. I know the right thing to do would be to divorce but we have 2 children together and i would like to get out of this hastle free. I do not want this marriage to interfere with my next. I also accept that i will never be able to treat both wives fairly. I am very confused in my next steps in life and am not getting any straight answers from anyone regarding this issue.

I am sorry for the long message, but feel that you should know everything before you can comment fairly. Thank you for your time and patience regarding my issue.

:w:

I don't know if a marriage or divorce in legal fact only without a Nikah is allowed for a Muslim. You should ask a fatwa.

Have you discussed this situation with your wife? Maybe she would prefer to really be divorced, (i mean Talaaq)?

[Sharif]

:sl:
The situation now that arises is that i want to get married again to this other woman. However, if i just divorce my current wife from english law and keep the nikah, would this be valid as i do not wish to sleep with my current wife and have any responsibility over her. Reason being is because we both know that we are together for the children and the children only. The only reason i ask this is because of the pakistani community and family situations and perceptions dont seem to be right. I know the right thing to do would be to divorce but we have 2 children together and i would like to get out of this hastle free. I do not want this marriage to interfere with my next. I also accept that i will never be able to treat both wives fairly. I am very confused in my next steps in life and am not getting any straight answers from anyone regarding this issue.
:w:

Ikram, May I ask you to do an exercise? Take an uninterrupted hour and answers these questions IN WRITING <-- that's important, otherwise, you can't evaluate.

A. List ALL the options you have available.

B. By the first option (for example, divorcing my current wife and marrying the other woman)

1. What are the TOP 10 things I'm trying to ACHIEVE?
2. What are the TOP 10 things I'm trying to AVOID?

B. By the second option (for example, not divorcing my current wife [by continuing with her]:

3. What are the TOP 10 things I'm trying to ACHIEVE?
4. What are the top 10 things I'm trying to AVOID?

You would ask the same two questions for each option (if you have more than two)

Then, go back to each answer (a total of 40 points at least, some of them would repeat) and RATE them from 1 to 10 (1 being not important at all and 10 being extremely important).

Add each 10 answer's rating. So, Question #1 will have a total number; Question #2 will have a total number and so on.

See where the weight is heavier.

I'd suggest you talk about some of these with your current wife.

After you do the exercise (if you seriously sit down and do it, you'll see the situation with an amazing balanced perspective, insha'Allah), talk with a few elder people whom you respect and trust. See what they say.

Than, make a decision.

Pray istikhaarah.

Go with it.

Make sure to "sleep on" your decision for a day or two. Don't rush into it. Give it some time to digest.

Make massive du'aa' to Allaah.

Let us know how it went.

Sharif

[Woodrow]

Brother Sharif just earned a few rep points for his excellent advice.

I can not add to it and urge you to try what Bro Sharif said,

it will work.

[Tania]

After you made what Sharif said please talk with your wife. Her life counts too and she must have a big say in your decision.


Also, i would like to point out from 6 years you have 2 women in your life and both it seems are happy with you. Have you considered to take a second wife :? and legalise in this way the relation what you have with the other woman :? but without to break your first marriage. You should not be affraid by this decision because you are not treating fairly them. In the current days if you think twice both women didn't reproved you anything, so they are content.

[Sharif]

Have you considered to take a second wife :?

I'd suggest adding that as the third option, absolutely. Don't just scratch it off from the beginning. Give chance a chance.

[Sahabiyaat]

i hate to put my personal lifes experiences into this, but you remind me of someone whom i would disagree with alot.

i cant say it less brutally, you didnt like her, you shouldnt have slept with her.
Its as simple as that, and using her tears as an explanation is very weak.

Bringing 2 children into this world and then divorcing their mother to marry someone you fancy,.. what a way to go. Maybe your situation is more complex than this, but this is how everyone will see it, your sons when they grow up, ur wife, ur family. They will hate you because you dumped them, im sorry, but thats the harsh reality of it. They are not going to understand your feelings in all of this, that you are human too and make mistakes.They will simply see you as someone who abandoned them for his....whatever your relationship to that woman is.

:sl:we have 2 children together and i would like to get out of this hastle free. I do not want this marriage to interfere with my next

From the above it only seems your thinking about your little love story with this woman.

anyway brother, my opinion doesnt matter, brother Sharifs advice is much more worthy of your situation.

forgive me for my harshness, but your situation, ive seen it TOO many times, and the painful and life changing consequences EVERYBODY involved has to suffer in the years to come.

:w:

[Sharif]

I just want to acknowledge what Sahabiyaat said. jazaahi Allaahu khayr.

ANYTHING that happens to you--yes absolutely anything--regardless of how disastrous or painful that may be, you can take that and either:

(a) wallow in it, make excuses, blame others, break your spine, become weak, and make it ruin and others' lives

OR

(b) learn lessons from it, face the brutal facts, grow a spine, be a man, and let it make you even better, even stronger, even sharper, and even more excited and passionate about life!

The choice is always YOURS!

If you want anything "hassle free," you would have to wait until you enter jannat al firdaus (which I hope you'll reach by making some awesome intelligent smart decisions). That's the only place where things are "hassle free."

Over here on mortal land, you'd have to take the curve balls that life throws at you as CHALLENGES and face up to them. Do NOT run away from them; don't even THINK about running away! How are you going to win the battle if you leave the battlefield?

I don't know about your seriousness level for this deen. I'd suggest doing a quick scanning on yourself and seeing where you measure. Make plans to improve on that.

Remember bro., there's always a next level to go to. Every challenge is actually an opportunity to do just that.

So, secure long-term gain even if that means enduring some short-term pain (and not the other way around!)

Be a winner with excellence, insha'Allaah! You can't settle for anything less!

[gladTidings]

Either way, the next step you take brother, will hurt those you love or those that love you. Take this into consideration when making your decision and pray for the path that is best for your hereafter. Dont forget istikhara.

[TotalControl]

:sl:

Thank you all very much for your replies. I would like to add that regardless of the presence of the second woman in my life, things have never really been good with my wife. I'm not going to say how it was and what it was i tried to do to change my current wife but her mentality states her to not listen to me and only do the things she deems to. I did try and make things work with her but it keeps getting to a point where one has to think about where our life is heading. We STILL live with our parents and do not have our own house and she complains to me about her own roof. However, just as a current example, if she cannot clean and organise her own room then what makes me think that a house will be kept clean for the children.

I still to this day don't consider myself a proper father role model and it hurts. We cannot financially keep up with their demands and very seldom is there an opportunity to spend quality time with them as there is always conflict between my wife and myself.

I will have to ask several Imams before I take any steps in life. An educated and thoughtful action is the one to the right path. Inshallah life will bring the happiness that is required. Alhamdulillah I have at last encountered people who are able to guide me on the right way.

I will keep you posted of what the Imams responses have been.

:w:

[Eeman]

salam alaikum brother,

oh gosh!!!
first and foremost i wuld like to just say that Pakistani famiies ned to STOP doing this!
this is a sitaution that is starting to become a little bit too common for me for my own liking, i dont know what it is but every other person that i know this is happening to them!!! (sad thing is they are all pakistanis too)

Dear brother, firstly what you have been doin is wrong, fo marrid man to hve realtions with another woman is not permitted in islam.

and if your heat was truly not in it and you knew that you didnt want tp be with her then why have children??? the excuse that you have used is what i hear all the time but you have to realise that your cousin who s your wife was and is probab;y in the same situation as you, cos your a man you go on about it in a different way find yourself another sister that is more compatible to you but for once have you given a thought to your 1st wife?
just like it was arranged for for you it was for her most probably too, begging and crying is never an excuse to give in but did you think why she might have been so desperate for children? sometimes women niavely do it as a mistake thinking that it will bring them closer to their husband or maybe she wanted to fill that void and gap in your marriage that was so empty by having children giving her something to go on.

if it is an absolute dead end for you and your wife then i suggest you give her a divorce legally and islamicaly dont fool yourselve bythinking that since polygamy is permitted in islam you'll be ok, you will never be fair to them both of your relationships, your marriage with ur first and scond wife will be strained TRUST ME!!!


having a third kid to get a council place???? is that a good enough reason to have kids? :o$

by you making the decision to leave your wife for this other woman believe me is going to be very hard to go through, cos not only is she your cousin but has kids with you too, maybe your family will stop talking to you as well which is common and your wife will not take it well which i very common.

so you need to sit there and think hard brother, do your istikhara first and ask Allah swt to guide you, if your so unhappy to be in a marriage that it leads you to think about committing suicide then from my perspective you shouldnt be in it. why has Allah swt wanted us to get married, marriage is a big part of life and should never be like that and that is another reason why He allows talaaq cos if it does come to that then one can take that option.

but whatever you do dont carry this sitaution on any longer, you either stick it through for your wife and tell the othe woman that she has no place in your life or you leave your wife and go get married to this other woman, or you decide to have 2 wives and live your live that way.

whatever your decision and whatever Allah swt guides you to i pray that He makes it easy for your Insha'Allah

wa salam

[Faye]

:sl:
We cannot financially keep up with their demands

If you take the option of taking a second wife, you will have double the financial burden on you.

But, even if you divorce your wife, and remarry you will still have to support your children.

Also, in many Pakistani marriages, the Mahr is set very high as a deterrant to divorce, and is only payed in case of divorce. If this is your situation, can you even afford the divorce?

[Sahabiyaat]

:sl:

Thank you all very much for your replies. I would like to add that regardless of the presence of the second woman in my life, things have never really been good with my wife. I'm not going to say how it was and what it was i tried to do to change my current wife but her mentality states her to not listen to me and only do the things she deems to. I did try and make things work with her but it keeps getting to a point where one has to think about where our life is heading. We STILL live with our parents and do not have our own house and she complains to me about her own roof. However, just as a current example, if she cannot clean and organise her own room then what makes me think that a house will be kept clean for the children.

I still to this day don't consider myself a proper father role model and it hurts. We cannot financially keep up with their demands and very seldom is there an opportunity to spend quality time with them as there is always conflict between my wife and myself.

I will have to ask several Imams before I take any steps in life. An educated and thoughtful action is the one to the right path. Inshallah life will bring the happiness that is required. Alhamdulillah I have at last encountered people who are able to guide me on the right way.

I will keep you posted of what the Imams responses have been.

:w:

:sl:
i feel your despair and im genuinely very sorry;

a) for being so thoughless as to not even offer my condolances for your deceased daughter, im SO sorry, Innalillahi Wainailayhi Rajioon.

b)for not realising your difficulty for getting on with your wife and trying to make things better

c) and most importantly, for being forced into a marriage at such a young age.

May Allah make things easier for you and help you make the right descion.

:w:

[TotalControl]

:sl:

Well, brothers and sisters, I have indeed tried to go and receive information on how to go about this the right way. I have spoken to, just a few hours ago, an Imam in the London Central Masjid near Regents park.

The Imam listened and was very helpful. He advised me that getting married again would be of benefit to me. He said that divorce would be the better option if we did not have children together. In this given circumstance, it is best to get married again and keep my current Nikah solely for the ease of accessability to the children. This will also ensure that my 2nd wife will be able to live with ease and understand my commitment.

All I need to do is sit my 1st wife down and explain to her what it is that I am going to do. If she accepts then alhamdullilah all is well. However, the Imam did say that the choice is also hers in whether she wants to stay or not. As me and my wife both know that our relationship is solely emminent for the children I would have done my part in ensuring the equality. The Imam did also say that it would be impossible to treat both equally and she needs to be told.

Things are a bit wierd in the house as we speak but will inshallah over time diffuse and the understanding of life will be bought about better to them.

Mashallah the responses I have received, like I have said, have been the best I have ever received from anyone. Alhamdullilah there are people who wish the best out there.

I will keep you posted of the future responses.

Inshallah all will be well, my dua's are with you as yours are with me.

:w:

[Tania]

I would not bring the second wife in the same house where is the first. You should tell that to her. She will remain at her parents or where do she lives now.
Have you considered to see why your first wife really likes you :? I thought at her when i walked with my dogs and i realised that council house its not the house given by townhall for the young families which can't afford their own house :? It means she just really wants to have her own house where can educate yours children :) She doesn't want much.


I don't want to upset you but i read on the forum a real case - it was taken from the media - where a man which didn't like at all his wife, bored, decided to have a talk on the net. From the entire chat room he liked to talk with a specific woman. He fell in love in her, so decided to meet her to see how she looks. You can guess what happened on : on the date day, at the meeting place stand his own wife. Instead of realise how blind it was, he divorced from her. Soemtimes certain persons are so quiet, everything what they are doing its so natural than we don't realise how good they are.

[TotalControl]

I would not bring the second wife in the same house where is the first. You should tell that to her. She will remain at her parents or where do she lives now.
Have you considered to see why your first wife really likes you :? I thought at her when i walked with my dogs and i realised that council house its not the house given by townhall for the young families which can't afford their own house :? It means she just really wants to have her own house where can educate yours children :) She doesn't want much.


I don't want to upset you but i read on the forum a real case - it was taken from the media - where a man which didn't like at all his wife, bored, decided to have a talk on the net. From the entire chat room he liked to talk with a specific woman. He fell in love in her, so decided to meet her to see how she looks. You can guess what happened on : on the date day, at the meeting place stand his own wife. Instead of realise how blind it was, he divorced from her. Soemtimes certain persons are so quiet, everything what they are doing its so natural than we don't realise how good they are.

:sl:

I can appreciate what you have said sister and understand what it is you mean. Trust me when I say that I have taken these things into account. You get a taste of what a person is like when you give them a taste of what they like. About 2 years ago we moved into a flat for a short period of time. I was not making enough money when so decided to move back in with my parents.

This flat was her residence and social gathering account. I would often come home after work and would find that food hasn't been made, she would sit in front of the TV and the children would be fed at irregular times. Pretty much what I imagined.

The thing is, I honestly thought it was a phase. The reason we had to move out was because of the complications that existed with my wife and my mother and sister in our home. I supported her through that and made it clear that I was on her side. Alas, the arguements started again. There would be times when my parents would not see their grandchildren for a week at a time. After 5 months I gave up, the financial hardship of not even being able to afford a council rented flat was put to an end and we ended up back at square one.

The blame..... me! I was the one who didn't understand her and fed the family lies!!! Aparently. But I let it all go and tried to establish another stepping stone to continue our journey of life.

This is not merely a statement of saying 'I did this and I did that!'
It is just a taster of what life is actually like. I hope that inshallah lifes tests are passed.

:w:

[Eeman]

Brother is the second woman that is in your life is she pakistani too?

[Tania]

May be she isn't the best house wife but this insecurity would kill me too. And for me too would be really very dificult to adapt myself and live in husband parents house. If, after marriage i would be left to live with my parents that would be heaven for me. ,She faces too many changes in your marriage. And to have two small children which need to be changed, feed all the time that its a big problem which could make her do not have the time to make you food or you find the rented flat in a small war zone.

[cute123]

Can u just try to love her inspite of all her failures (first wife) . I do not gurantee that she might change.

as the hadeeth goes of holding the family ties when they do not work rather than reciprocating them. i know its too much of self sacrifice from ur side and just no freedom . just imagine as if ur freind didnt have met u then how would u be- its all better for the kids and ur wife and ur family. at the end of the life it will be a wise decision. at least no blame on ur heart that u were the one responsible for breakdown of the house. life is just full of challenges and trials.

completely my advice.

[Sharif]

Ikram, did you do that exercise?

You may think that "thinking deeply" about all these conflicting thoughts would be enough, but they are NOT enough.

May I ask you to consider another fact:

If your wife were to go to the imam and explain her side of the story, is there a possibility that the imam would say something that supports her instead of you?

Just think about it.

It's difficult as of now to take care of your current family. Do you think it will be easier if you bring someone else along?

As you have explained a few things that you don't like in her, does she have a few things which she doesn't like in you? Hmm...

When you do something for her, what do you expect in return? What if you were to do some things for her just out of sympathy and care, and expect NOTHING---absolutely nothing---in return? What would happen? Did you try?

Did you express how you feel about her to her openly (without making any accusation)? You can just say: "when you do ____, I feel ______." Use that exact same sentence for EVERYTHING you want to improve in her.

Then, (if you can put aside the male pride for a few minutes for the sake of a serious decision-making) ask her to do the same thing: use that same sentence and tell you EVERYTHING that she wants to see you improve about you.

Sounds kinda tough? Doesn't it? Yeah. Marriage is garden. Most likely, you haven't been taking out the weeds for a long time; now they're choking the good flowers. You have yank out those weeds right away before you can grow more flowers.

You don't want to REPEAT your marriage story #1 if you decide to have a marriage story #2.

Does that make sense, Ikram?

[TotalControl]

:sl:

Thank you very much brothers and sisters. Firstly, the second woman is not Pakistani (nor is she my cousin in that case!). I would like to say that I did indeed try and sit down to talk earlier last night after my post. However, all was fallen on deaf ears. I have tried to explain that inspite of the years that I have never put any conditions on my wife, she still doesnt listen to the little things that go on. I also stated that I can understand that she wants to do things her way, but sometimes if she is wrong there is no harm in her listening to what others have to say. I advised that life is indeed too short for conflicts and these should be eradicated.

The result, the rest of the family (my uncle and aunty namely) decide to jump in and try to set ME straight. After all the hard work I tried in getting to MY part that im responsible for, it was all switched.

The result? I have to now leave as there are statements being thrown about that I said I want to give her a divorce and throw her out! Where do these allegations come from??? Astakhfirullah! I would never throw out any woman with her children, would never dream of it! And they accuse me of doing that to my own?!!

Time is hard as of now but Allah never puts a burden too great for your shoulders not to withstand. Inshallah I will come out by telling the truth and nothing but the truth! Ameen

:w:

[TotalControl]

To brother Sharif, i apologise for this however I did not complete the given task. May you please forgive me, but once reading the above you will understand why not.

Salaam.

[Sharif]

To brother Sharif, i apologise for this however I did not complete the given task. May you please forgive me, but once reading the above you will understand why not.

It's extremely important that you keep your cool during this crucial time.

Constantly say "a'oodhu billaah" and make wadoo' as often as you can.

You don't have to win every single battle to win the real war!

[TotalControl]

Inshallah will do brother. Will keep you posted with whats to come. Ameen.

[Sharif]

I would suggest making some time and doing that exercise.

Because during a situation like this, our emotions tend to override our "logic" and we end up making bad decisions and later on regret them.

Writing what we want to gain and what we want to avoid by both choices will give you more clarity, insha'allaah. And then with istishaarah and istikhaarah, you can't go wrong!

[ayesha309]

Bro TotalControl,
First of all, Im so sorry to hear your situation. Being forced to marry at such a young age to someone whom you are not attracted to, isn't good.
but bro, for the sake of your children, and for the sake of your family, why dont you just try her out once more?? but first of all, increase her iman level and you increase yours. and then try your marriage out. just once more. try to ignore the past 8 years or so and try it out. cuz personally, from wots going on, i see that divorce will be harsh on your kids, on your current wife and it will break family ties (i.e. your uncle and aunt wont speak to your parents, etc) and this will just cuase more chaos. people wont understand how ur feeling (even though they should) instead people will blame everything on you. so bro i think it might just be less hassle free if you try her out.
how abt you and your wife both watch this lecture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgaDPMvFJTE
Insha'Allah it will help you out in your problems. and like bro Sharif said, just like how there are things you dont like abt her, im sure there are things she doesnt like abt you (none of us are perfect) and at the same time, try to think of the things that you like abt her. try to talk to her abt this. plz. i pray that Allah alleviates ur burden and makes things easy for you Insha'Allah
and im really sorry to hear abt your daughter (inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon)

[Eeman]

Is it really healthy to be in a mariage for the sake of the children when the spouses dont get on and are not happy????

my sister made that mistake when she was young she stuck through everything and held on with all she had just for the sake of her children, and the result!!!

17 years down the line her kids have grown up and now you can see the effect its had on the children! and believe you me its not healthy whatsoever!

why is talaaq permitted in islam????? must be a reason would you not think?
i hear this all the time, for the sake of your children do this and that or oh just this last time, i have watched people do this for decades and it always has been this one lasttime but its ended up being many years, and now if you see them they are miserable, their lives are miserable and their kids are misrable forever in the middle, they see no love between mum and dad, nothing to inspire them or teach them what a healthy and loving marriage is all about, instead miserable faces!

just cos you have children it should not stop you from doing what you think will be better for your ownself if your so unhappy to be with your wife to the point where you have been suicidal then think!!!!

your kids will always be in your life cos you are their father but you have to make that full effort with them, having a divorce does not mean your life is over!!!!!!

just like you are unhappy i reassure you that your wife is too, but its harder for her to take these steps its always not easy fo women especially if she is from back home.

people will step in and they will say all sorts, especially your family, there will be so many tamashe!!!! seriously mark my words, then the emotional blackmailing will start, then your kids will be thrown in your face and you will be made to feel like the biggest and most evil person ever!!!!!!!!! but you have to be strong and stand by the truth!!!!

saddest thing is it will always be the family that will do this, and in these situations i have always wondered if they really think back to the root and core of the problem and why this has happened, forcing or emotionally blackmailing your kids to get married to someone they dont even know let alone from back home needs to be stopped! cos if that stops then you wont havemany sitautions like this.

i know so many pakistani brothers that are married and have wifes and children since thy were taken back home at a young age and married off, they do nothing but go out with different women every weekend drink take drugs, commit adultery and screw up other poor sister's lives cos they are not happy in their marriage and never have been and the poor wife is sitting at home looking after the kids thinking that her dear husband is away from work or round his cousin's house up north.

it seriously disgusts me, but its TOO COMMON!!!! why ???? what is the reason?????
yes islam encourages t get married young but no it does not encourage to be forced or emotionally blackmailed to marry your cousin from back home!!!! the reason why it encourages to get married young so that you dont commit sin! but YALLAH!!! is it not worse to be committing adultery when you have wife and kids at home????????

sorry Eeman is getting frustrated again! i apologise.

wa salam.

[Sharif]

Ikram, experiences have no meaning except the meaning you attach to them--no matter how bad they are.

That said, whatever you decide, decide that out of purpose and good-will. Do NOT make a decision out of pure guilt! Think: when you'll be 60 or 70 or 80 years old, will you look back and REGRET this decision which you're about to make? What can you do NOW, so that at age 80 (insha'Allah, if Allah gives you a long life), you can look back and say: "alhamdulillaah, that was one of the best decisions of my life. I have no regret whatsoever. I've led a life with purpose and joy!"

You may think in your current situation you cannot possibly make such a decision. Think again. You CAN make a decision. People have been in worse situations and came out winning and smiling. If they can do it, you can do it even better--with more ihsaan--with pure excellence.

Remember, "life is toil." LIFE IS TOIL! Prepare for the consequences and the results. Better yet, make allies with the consequences instead of fighting with them.

Did you pray taHajjud and cry like a baby asking Allaah for help and guidance? (Don't answer that; just do it).

[جوري]

I have read your story, was very moved by it, but don't have any positive comments to contribute and for that I apologize.. I have some what grown to resent your family in the process of reading, for I don't believe they understood at all the long horrid chain of consequences to their actions and how many people including young ones will be affected by it....

It is very unislamic of them to force marriage on you but I suspect you already know that.. I fear your story serves as what could happen when one doesn't follow Allah's commandments and forces the subject of marriage on someone neither physically nor psychologically and I suspect not fully financially ready for it...

Best of luck akhi whatever decision you make I pray that Allah will guide and make it easy on you and all other parties involved!

:w:

[Tania]

Leave few days to pass and your wife have time to analyse what you have said. May be she doesn't want to go back in pakistan so if you would give her a good option she will be happy too.

[i_m_tipu]

i hate to put my personal lifes experiences into this, but you remind me of someone whom i would disagree with alot.

i cant say it less brutally, you didnt like her, you shouldnt have slept with her.
Its as simple as that, and using her tears as an explanation is very weak.

Bringing 2 children into this world and then divorcing their mother to marry someone you fancy,.. what a way to go. Maybe your situation is more complex than this, but this is how everyone will see it, your sons when they grow up, ur wife, ur family. They will hate you because you dumped them, im sorry, but thats the harsh reality of it. They are not going to understand your feelings in all of this, that you are human too and make mistakes.They will simply see you as someone who abandoned them for his....whatever your relationship to that woman is.



From the above it only seems your thinking about your little love story with this woman.

anyway brother, my opinion doesnt matter, brother Sharifs advice is much more worthy of your situation.

forgive me for my harshness, but your situation, ive seen it TOO many times, and the painful and life changing consequences EVERYBODY involved has to suffer in the years to come.

:w:

:sl:
I agree with some of ur point sis.

As bro TotalControl say his iman grow stronger than it is better for him to know the ruling of having or not wanting child. I believe if u study and take authentic ref u would have a very different mentality.

Pls note this
In Islam a Man is choosen as a wali(Guardian) of his family.
That does not mean to powered over ur familly. That mean A man has do more sacrifice, he has to take more responsibilities. Use ur brain and do not unjust to ur familly.

If u have a valid reason u have full right to take any legal decision. Try 2 find what Rasulullah and His companion did or advice to other in such/similar situations.

www.islam-qa.com.. can b a good site. go search there or put a question there.

May Allah help us..

[TotalControl]

:sl:

Alhamdulillahe rabilla'lameen! I have battled long and hard and have said I will accept to work things out with my wife. And she accepts to me getting married again!!

Alhamdulillah! Inshallah Allah SWT will show us the right path and will guide us through to better times, leaving the worse of them far far behind.

Thank you brothers and sisters. I know this thread almost became a sitcom but will keep you updated on whats to come.

Ameen.

:w:

[Eeman]

:sl:

Alhamdulillahe rabilla'lameen! I have battled long and hard and have said I will accept to work things out with my wife. And she accepts to me getting married again!!

Alhamdulillah! Inshallah Allah SWT will show us the right path and will guide us through to better times, leaving the worse of them far far behind.

Thank you brothers and sisters. I know this thread almost became a sitcom but will keep you updated on whats to come.

Ameen.

:w:

salam alaikum brother,
so she is allowing you to have a second wife?:skeleton:

wa salam.

[ayan333]

:sl:

Alhamdulillahe rabilla'lameen! I have battled long and hard and have said I will accept to work things out with my wife. And she accepts to me getting married again!!

Alhamdulillah! Inshallah Allah SWT will show us the right path and will guide us through to better times, leaving the worse of them far far behind.

Thank you brothers and sisters. I know this thread almost became a sitcom but will keep you updated on whats to come.

Ameen.

:w:

:sl:

Alhamduliah...

things seam to have worked out..good thing you didnt do anything you would regret

ALLAH (SWA) is the Greatest...ALLAHu Akbra!!!!!

happy to hear that you wont have to seprate,divorces have become way to common with Muslim couples lately..we're getting to comfrotable with it you know...

ill shut up now

congrats though

:w:

[Eeman]

salam bro, can i ask you something do you really feel or believe in your heart that you will be fair to both of your wives if you were to marry the other woman in your life?

wa salam

[sangeeta]

Seek some professional advice, I think it is a shame that parents do not wait till their children are mature enough to be married off,as was in your case.I am sorry to hear of the loss of your daughter, but please do not blame yourself to the point you did.God decides who he sends and who he takes,and the reasons are not always for us to ever know.

[sangeeta]

Seek some professional advice, I think it is a shame that parents do not wait till their children are mature enough to be married off,as was in your case.I am sorry to hear of the loss of your daughter, but please do not blame yourself to the point you did.God decides who he sends and who he takes,and the reasons are not always for us to ever know.
I wish you the best and honestly,a clean break is better for both parties in the long run.At least your wife will have the right to decide her future too without silly complications getting in the way.As for your children, you can still be the best dad even if you are not always with them.

[TotalControl]

Salaam brothers and sisters.

Well, the sitcom aka my life has really been quite challenging over the last year.

My 'wife' has now left the house (she left back in May) and is really not cooperating. She has become very vindictive and is also not letting me see the children. My children. At all!!

I did do as brother Sharif rightly stated and in all honesty, did not see myself getting anywhere with this woman. I hope that Allah (swt) has given me the right state of mind to pursue my actions. As far as it goes for the other woman, contact has been, rightly, kept to a minimum to avoid Satan coming into and overtaking my thoughts. Simple. Life can only go right if you lead life the right way.

There is something that is really bothering me now though. I have asked for her, if you fellow brothers and sisters remember, to just statutarily (is that even the right word?) divorce and not break off the Nikah. Her exact words for this, I am ashamed to say, were 'Well, if you divorce me here then it's a divorce, I don't care what Islam has to say'.

This for me was the last straw. Insult me, insult my actions, my thoughts, my dreams, but under no circumstances shall anyone insult my Iman. Allah (swt) has given me enough of a brain for me to value this. It's heartbreaking to know how devalued your Iman is, or even hers, for her to say this, and so convincingly even when knowing what the right thing to do is.

As of last night, I have spoken to her regarding the issue of divorce. It is now apparent that she does not want to do this the easy way. Great. Just what I needed.

She has said that if I am to divorce, she wants a full divorce. But...

She will not give me the Nikah papers for me to proceed with divorce. She will not cooperate with me, but sees it fit for her to not let me see my children. No matter what, she will stick by this. I have tried to call Pakistan to get another Nikah paper sent to me but the useless oaf I spoke to doesn't understand the urgency. I don't even think he knows how to read his email. Unsurprising.

My next step is, obviously, divorce. But, brothers and sisters, my question for you here is, if I divorce her via the proceedings of Talakh, will she then have to cooperate with no choice and divorce me under statutary law? It seems to be a logical solution which she will not be able to get out of.

I fear this will drag on far longer than expected, as I really have plans for a better and cleaner life. My namaz is for noone but to better me and my prayers are for not me but others, but seriously, this is taking the biscuit. I do not want to resort to ill words and want this sorted cleanly.

Please help a fellow brother.

Salaam.

[nilufer]

:sl:

I would like to introduce myself. My name is Ikram Hussain and i am 24 years old. I am a Sunni and my parents are of Pakistani descent from an area near to Rawalpindi. It has been about a year since my Iman has become a lot stronger and I thank Allah (SWT) for the strength he gives me to make my Iman even clearer. However, there are always going to be situations where you will have to learn Islam to understand it better. Hence why i am writing to you.

I have been married for 7 years now to my wife who is my cousin (her mother is my mothers sister and her father is my fathers brother. My mother and father are also cousins). She is five years older than me. We have two wonderful boys (4.5 and 3). The thing is, we have never really got on.

It all started on 20th March 2000 when my parents told me that i would be marrying in pakistan. I was 15! I did not want to marry but i was told to do it or leave (in nice words). My mother, father, uncle and aunty (not her parents, but her uncle and aunty also) all pressured me into this. Alas, on 27 July 2001 i went to pakistan and had my nuptual agreement. The situation wasnt nice but i gave in. With no sense of direction and no one to help.

The Nikah, as i understand, was done but i did notice my date of birth being changed to make me look 18 instead of 17. I did not sleep with her there and merely came back in the hope, and thought, that the worst was over and i would never have to think of it again. I was hidden from the truth of knowing what a marriage was and had nothing to be with her as i was still at school.

I have known another woman who is also muslim for 6 years and we both collectively have agreed that marriage is the way forward for us. We have strong feelings for each other and would inshallah like to continue them for the rest of our lifes. This woman is the same age as me and understands me very well. She has also in the past supported me with this marriage and stopped me from killing myself and given me the Iman i have with me today.

My wife came to England after 1.5 years and several dozen fake payslips for me later. Both of our children that have been born were both asked for by my wife. She did not listen to me as i told her i was not willing to have children yet. It got to a point where she cried and begged me for them. I gave in.

Fast forward to 2008 and just 1 month ago i have lost my daughter (at birth). It was expected but came about in the wrong way. This was done by our mistake as i was asleep on the last day of ramadan and stated i was fasting and did not want her to come near me. So she did, when i was asleep. It was stupid for me to break my fast how i did and regret it dearly. I did not want to have another child but my wife did not abort when we first found out (at 3 weeks) as she wanted to prove her point. It supposedly is the easy way to obtain a coucil house!

The situation now that arises is that i want to get married again to this other woman. However, if i just divorce my current wife from english law and keep the nikah, would this be valid as i do not wish to sleep with my current wife and have any responsibility over her. Reason being is because we both know that we are together for the children and the children only. The only reason i ask this is because of the pakistani community and family situations and perceptions dont seem to be right. I know the right thing to do would be to divorce but we have 2 children together and i would like to get out of this hastle free. I do not want this marriage to interfere with my next. I also accept that i will never be able to treat both wives fairly. I am very confused in my next steps in life and am not getting any straight answers from anyone regarding this issue.

I am sorry for the long message, but feel that you should know everything before you can comment fairly. Thank you for your time and patience regarding my issue.

:w:

Assalamou Alaikoum Warahmatou ALLAH Taala Wabarakatou,

Brother first of all i want you to delete your name and surname from the post as it could be a problem for you as you mentioned about you had several fake payslips and you know that if any immigration officier come by coincidence to this forum and he or she can take action against you

Second in the English law you cannot marry 2 wifes , Only one should be your wife

Third by divorcing your wife you will face to lose your children are you prepared for that and what will be your feelings towards the situation ?


Fourth by divorcing her you will lose the family support did you prepared your self for it ?

fifth it wasnt your wifes fault is your both families fault to force you both getting married and having a children so dont punish her with something wasnt her fault but it was her destiney

Sixth why cant you try to love your wife and get close to her if not for her but for your children and family gives her chances to become your dream wife
Believe me there is no differences between women and what guarantee to you that the women you loved will be miss perfect to you believe me if you marry her you will see her as any normal women as a wife and you will regret your ex wife and children and family and it will be only too late so please think good before any step , I am sure the women you loved does not loves you but she loves something on you could be your money or something to hide her self in because no women who loves somebody will allowed to him to get marry an other women as you mentioned she supported you to marry your wife , I dont believe her , She should give up after you had children , I dont know why some women likes to stay with a married man and destroy a family wife and children , Its really insecure and silly people who can do that and ALLAH SWT knows best

[cat eyes]

:sl:you were forced in to the marriage in the first place which is really very sad indeed i think brother you desperately need to talk with a scholar. i don't think you should take advice from just anyone when it comes to matters like this where kids are involved.

[TotalControl]

Asalaamu alakum.

In response to nulifier, apologies for not stating things better. I should have stated that the fake payslip issue is that of my Iman. I was doing jobs for someone else without knowledge of being paid. I.E. I was sent to do thiese jobs but did not understand at the time that my family wanted this done for me to receive payslips statings I am in work. To me, there is no acceptance of this as I did the job free of charge. The reasoning behind the payslips is somewhat immoral for me to accept as it was not 'paid work'. I understand the term is quite loose and can be misinterpreted very easily.

Also, as far as I understand, an unhappy distant family is a broken family anyway. The effects of which are a lot worse 'just for the name' of keeping and coinhabiting together. So if the rules set out by a Nikah cannot be obided by, then it is effectively a broken marriage and a voided Nikah. Please correct me if I am wrong though.

Family support was lost a long time ago. The ammount of apologies received can't really rectify an obvious issue. A father will do as much possible for his children to be secure. I understand that. But restrictions on being able to see children when the father is in a fit state of mind makes no sense. Islamicly or even under common sense.

Family has a lot of the blame on their shoulders. But responsibilty has to be taken where neccessary. If a fault has been made, then accept. Such is the beauty of life, you live and you learn. I am beyond perfect, as perfection is only with Allah (swt) himself.

Life is not just about love. It is about doing the right things. Love cannot be forced brother. Nor can a responsibilty you don't wish to take. You can only take on a responsibilty if you yourself are ready for it. Unfortunately, I am a little too late for this realisation. And believe me, there is a difference between women. Hence for the choices and psychoanalysis that goes on beforeand during a marriage. If you have a clash of personalities, do you think it will work with force? I give you the example of what I said in my previous post of my mife saying she hold 'novalue' to our Nikah papers and only to those that are under civil agreement. Do you morally think I should accept this? For her to see that there is no future regardless of how hard I have worked, do you think this is an acceptable procedure that has been written for us to manipulate within our lives under Islam? Astakhfirullah. I would not want to do anything that would now bite me on the day of judgement.

Miss perfect? There is no such thing. Every living creature has its flaw. These flaws exist due to the nature of the way Allah (swt) wanted them to be.

To sister cat eyes. Thank you for your response also. I have indeed spoken to a few people who have concluded that it is best for me to finalise what it is she wants. Please do not get me wrong. I can only lay down the hard facts with these people. I'm a man of faith now, not a barbarian of culture. I have tried to talk with her regarding volatile issues also. Ijust do not understand the catalyst behind such decisions.

After all, Allah (swt) knows best. I am just a pawn on the chess piece.

I do wish to include that Anything stated here is true. I do not want to come across as a 'keyboard warrior'. he past 2 years of my life have really and truly been an eye opener for me. I just wish to concentrate on the correct implications of Islam, hence why I am here.

Thank you all for your replies so far.

Wasalaam.

[amirebi]

سلام
you don't love her, she doesnot love you, and i think that in such this cold family, your children will have many problems in their future.
if you both agree on divorce, so do it, but be careful about your children. cause you 2 are not allowed to destroy their future.
and your parents are responsble, they forced you to marry sb on that 17 age ....!!!!

[amirebi]

سلام
you don't love her, she doesnot love you, and i think that in such this cold family, your children will have many problems in their future.
if you both agree on divorce, so do it, but be careful about your children. cause you 2 are not allowed to destroy their future.
and your parents are responsble, they forced you to marry sb when you were 17....!!!!

[TotalControl]

I fully understand brother. The situation is very volatile in regards to my children. I only want the best for them in this situation. No one else really matters.

[Khanurani]

:sl:

I would like to introduce myself. My name is Ikram Hussain and i am 24 years old. I am a Sunni and my parents are of Pakistani descent from an area near to Rawalpindi. It has been about a year since my Iman has become a lot stronger and I thank Allah (SWT) for the strength he gives me to make my Iman even clearer. However, there are always going to be situations where you will have to learn Islam to understand it better. Hence why i am writing to you.

I have been married for 7 years now to my wife who is my cousin (her mother is my mothers sister and her father is my fathers brother. My mother and father are also cousins). She is five years older than me. We have two wonderful boys (4.5 and 3). The thing is, we have never really got on.

It all started on 20th March 2000 when my parents told me that i would be marrying in pakistan. I was 15! I did not want to marry but i was told to do it or leave (in nice words). My mother, father, uncle and aunty (not her parents, but her uncle and aunty also) all pressured me into this. Alas, on 27 July 2001 i went to pakistan and had my nuptual agreement. The situation wasnt nice but i gave in. With no sense of direction and no one to help.

The Nikah, as i understand, was done but i did notice my date of birth being changed to make me look 18 instead of 17. I did not sleep with her there and merely came back in the hope, and thought, that the worst was over and i would never have to think of it again. I was hidden from the truth of knowing what a marriage was and had nothing to be with her as i was still at school.

I have known another woman who is also muslim for 6 years and we both collectively have agreed that marriage is the way forward for us. We have strong feelings for each other and would inshallah like to continue them for the rest of our lifes. This woman is the same age as me and understands me very well. She has also in the past supported me with this marriage and stopped me from killing myself and given me the Iman i have with me today.

My wife came to England after 1.5 years and several dozen fake payslips for me later. Both of our children that have been born were both asked for by my wife. She did not listen to me as i told her i was not willing to have children yet. It got to a point where she cried and begged me for them. I gave in.

Fast forward to 2008 and just 1 month ago i have lost my daughter (at birth). It was expected but came about in the wrong way. This was done by our mistake as i was asleep on the last day of ramadan and stated i was fasting and did not want her to come near me. So she did, when i was asleep. It was stupid for me to break my fast how i did and regret it dearly. I did not want to have another child but my wife did not abort when we first found out (at 3 weeks) as she wanted to prove her point. It supposedly is the easy way to obtain a coucil house!

The situation now that arises is that i want to get married again to this other woman. However, if i just divorce my current wife from english law and keep the nikah, would this be valid as i do not wish to sleep with my current wife and have any responsibility over her. Reason being is because we both know that we are together for the children and the children only. The only reason i ask this is because of the pakistani community and family situations and perceptions dont seem to be right. I know the right thing to do would be to divorce but we have 2 children together and i would like to get out of this hastle free. I do not want this marriage to interfere with my next. I also accept that i will never be able to treat both wives fairly. I am very confused in my next steps in life and am not getting any straight answers from anyone regarding this issue.

I am sorry for the long message, but feel that you should know everything before you can comment fairly. Thank you for your time and patience regarding my issue.

:w:

errm...wow. i don't know what to say.
but good luck with whatever you choose to do!

[nilufer]

Asalaamu alakum.

In response to nulifier, apologies for not stating things better. I should have stated that the fake payslip issue is that of my Iman. I was doing jobs for someone else without knowledge of being paid. I.E. I was sent to do thiese jobs but did not understand at the time that my family wanted this done for me to receive payslips statings I am in work. To me, there is no acceptance of this as I did the job free of charge. The reasoning behind the payslips is somewhat immoral for me to accept as it was not 'paid work'. I understand the term is quite loose and can be misinterpreted very easily.

Also, as far as I understand, an unhappy distant family is a broken family anyway. The effects of which are a lot worse 'just for the name' of keeping and coinhabiting together. So if the rules set out by a Nikah cannot be obided by, then it is effectively a broken marriage and a voided Nikah. Please correct me if I am wrong though.

Family support was lost a long time ago. The ammount of apologies received can't really rectify an obvious issue. A father will do as much possible for his children to be secure. I understand that. But restrictions on being able to see children when the father is in a fit state of mind makes no sense. Islamicly or even under common sense.

Family has a lot of the blame on their shoulders. But responsibilty has to be taken where neccessary. If a fault has been made, then accept. Such is the beauty of life, you live and you learn. I am beyond perfect, as perfection is only with Allah (swt) himself.

Life is not just about love. It is about doing the right things. Love cannot be forced brother. Nor can a responsibilty you don't wish to take. You can only take on a responsibilty if you yourself are ready for it. Unfortunately, I am a little too late for this realisation. And believe me, there is a difference between women. Hence for the choices and psychoanalysis that goes on beforeand during a marriage. If you have a clash of personalities, do you think it will work with force? I give you the example of what I said in my previous post of my mife saying she hold 'novalue' to our Nikah papers and only to those that are under civil agreement. Do you morally think I should accept this? For her to see that there is no future regardless of how hard I have worked, do you think this is an acceptable procedure that has been written for us to manipulate within our lives under Islam? Astakhfirullah. I would not want to do anything that would now bite me on the day of judgement.

Miss perfect? There is no such thing. Every living creature has its flaw. These flaws exist due to the nature of the way Allah (swt) wanted them to be.

To sister cat eyes. Thank you for your response also. I have indeed spoken to a few people who have concluded that it is best for me to finalise what it is she wants. Please do not get me wrong. I can only lay down the hard facts with these people. I'm a man of faith now, not a barbarian of culture. I have tried to talk with her regarding volatile issues also. Ijust do not understand the catalyst behind such decisions.

After all, Allah (swt) knows best. I am just a pawn on the chess piece.

I do wish to include that Anything stated here is true. I do not want to come across as a 'keyboard warrior'. he past 2 years of my life have really and truly been an eye opener for me. I just wish to concentrate on the correct implications of Islam, hence why I am here.

Thank you all for your replies so far.

Wasalaam.

Brother i understand your feelings and what you suffered in the past but believe me even if you divorce your wife and get marry with the new fella you will still regret in the future especially when your children growing up full of hate to you also your family shame of you and you will discover that your new fella is the same normal wife like any wife even if shes physcally beautiful than your wife still there is other things to consider which makes you really hate her as well but it will be only too late do a favvor to your self delete your full name because as you said some people can missunderstand the fake payslips and they can take action and ALLAH SWT knows best

[cat eyes]

Brother i understand your feelings and what you suffered in the past but believe me even if you divorce your wife and get marry with the new fella you will still regret in the future especially when your children growing up full of hate to you also your family shame of you and you will discover that your new fella is the same normal wife like any wife even if shes physcally beautiful than your wife still there is other things to consider which makes you really hate her as well but it will be only too late do a favvor to your self delete your full name because as you said some people can missunderstand the fake payslips and they can take action and ALLAH SWT knows best

:sl: i don't think he has nothing to feel ashamed about!! he was forced in to a marriage at the age of only 15years old and pressured into having children. he was clearly not ready for marriage and a family. thats not a life for anybody to live. Allah gives rights to a human do you know that sister? to live a happy life with somebody who is compatible and attractive in there eyes. nobody should be forced into anything and my brother your children will NOT HATE you when you will tell them what happened to you and what you have been through if you teach them about islam and what is right and what is wrong they will never judge you and they will understand and sister be careful what you advise to others. this is a big issue which is not easy to understand unless you have been put into that position yourself

[nilufer]

:sl: i don't think he has nothing to feel ashamed about!! he was forced in to a marriage at the age of only 15years old and pressured into having children. he was clearly not ready for marriage and a family. thats not a life for anybody to live. Allah gives rights to a human do you know that sister? to live a happy life with somebody who is compatible and attractive in there eyes. nobody should be forced into anything and my brother your children will NOT HATE you when you will tell them what happened to you and what you have been through if you teach them about islam and what is right and what is wrong they will never judge you and they will understand and sister be careful what you advise to others. this is a big issue which is not easy to understand unless you have been put into that position yourself

Listen to be forced for a marriage is not also his wifes fault she was forced as well and the children will be in the custody of the mother if he divorce her as he will get marry an other women and thats the law if you have some information about the international law of children custody when a man or woman decide to get marry , the custody always goes to the single parents and he will not have the chance to teach them to love him only the mother she will teach them how to hate the father and i know what iam saying and stop your criticise it does not help you at all

[cat eyes]

Listen to be forced for a marriage is not also his wifes fault she was forced as well and the children will be in the custody of the mother if he divorce her as he will get marry an other women and thats the law if you have some information about the international law of children custody when a man or woman decide to get marry , the custody always goes to the single parents and he will not have the chance to teach them to love him only the mother she will teach them how to hate the father and i know what iam saying and stop your criticise it does not help you at all

i can assure you it dose help me! to tell another muslim that he should feel ashamed for the position that hes in is down right spiteful and evil and he should be made to live in an unhappy situation hes whole life?? and i wont stand back and watch a person being criticised like that for something thats not his fault. so ''little miss know it all'' get down of your high horse and WAKE UP and learn a few things how to treat others. the custody dose not always go to the single parents. the father has as much rights as the mother. it might be that they will get shared custody. what evidence has she got against him that hes a bad father?? its nearly 2010 now not 1960's once the judge hears his side of the story and what hes been through. the judge will make his decision and not you

[nilufer]

i can assure you it dose help me! to tell another muslim that he should feel ashamed for the position that hes in is down right spiteful and evil and he should be made to live in an unhappy situation hes whole life?? and i wont stand back and watch a person being criticised like that for something thats not his fault. so ''little miss know it all'' get down of your high horse and WAKE UP and learn a few things how to treat others. the custody dose not always go to the single parents. the father has as much rights as the mother. it might be that they will get shared custody. what evidence has she got against him that hes a bad father?? its nearly 2010 now not 1960's once the judge hears his side of the story and what hes been through. the judge will make his decision and not you

They are living in a european country a modern country and a country who gave more rights to the women than the men and even in the islam ALLAH SWT gave us more rights , I can see that you dont have any idea about the law anyway the mother will have the custody as he will be the only one who wants to divorce her and she does not want to divorce him which the law will reward her with children custody , he may see his children only once a week but the rest days will be with the mother , I know about the law and i cannot tell you my position and stop insulting the people you dont know anything about them plus as i told you before you are a negative person and you need to see a psychologue believe me ALLAH SWT knows best

[Rabi'ya]

:sl:

when my parents got divorced the choice was given to the child as to who they stayed with(this depends on the age of the kids mind). Also, who says that they will only have visitation once a week. if the parents can amicably settle out of the court it may be just as easy. my dad used to see my brother almost every day and after he left school they worked together too. my dad STILL visits my mum now and then for a coffee. i know this isnt the muslim way of life, but im just saying that even though things were bad enough for them to get divorced it doesnt mean that they have to be enemies. they can be civil for the sake of the kids!

[LaRocque]

I just want to assure you that it is indeed very harmful for children to grow up in a household full of tension and resentment. My parents stayed together because of me and they were miserable. It escalated into violence and because of the things I saw and heard I have a very hard time trusting others, especially men. I cannot imagine the way you must be feeling right now, and I am very sorry that things have gotten to this point for you. It is wrong of her to use the children against you. They are very young and will not understand the situation for several years to come, but when they get a bit older and are able to understand they will NOT hate you. No child wants their parents to be unhappy, and if you explain to them the situation and your unhappiness they will not resent you. It may take some time, but they WILL eventually understand.

[cat eyes]

They are living in a european country a modern country and a country who gave more rights to the women than the men and even in the islam ALLAH SWT gave us more rights , I can see that you dont have any idea about the law anyway the mother will have the custody as he will be the only one who wants to divorce her and she does not want to divorce him which the law will reward her with children custody , he may see his children only once a week but the rest days will be with the mother , I know about the law and i cannot tell you my position and stop insulting the people you dont know anything about them plus as i told you before you are a negative person and you need to see a psychologue believe me ALLAH SWT knows best

you don't know what you are even talking about, you are the one throwing the insults and telling the oppressed that they should feel ashamed. what a horrible situation he ended up in and here you are telling him to feel ashamed your the one that needs to learn knowledge about islam its so clear from your every post that you have wrote on IB. I Mean if i am not going to tell you, nobody will!! you need to be corrected and put in your place. i suppose next you are going to make the lie of being a lawyer now lol i also live in Europe i have my own solicitor i can assure you i am aware of my rights and the rights of others now i am sincerely telling the OP to seek advice from a scholar and at the same time his duas will help you in your fight to see your children and so will mine inshaAllah.

[cat eyes]

I just want to assure you that it is indeed very harmful for children to grow up in a household full of tension and resentment. My parents stayed together because of me and they were miserable. It escalated into violence and because of the things I saw and heard I have a very hard time trusting others, especially men. I cannot imagine the way you must be feeling right now, and I am very sorry that things have gotten to this point for you. It is wrong of her to use the children against you. They are very young and will not understand the situation for several years to come, but when they get a bit older and are able to understand they will NOT hate you. No child wants their parents to be unhappy, and if you explain to them the situation and your unhappiness they will not resent you. It may take some time, but they WILL eventually understand.

:sl: exactly your kids will never hate you when they will be older they will understand and explain to them what you have been through. i know, i have seen it many times. what a sensible piece of advice.

[nilufer]

you don't know what you are even talking about, you are the one throwing the insults and telling the oppressed that they should feel ashamed. what a horrible situation he ended up in and here you are telling him to feel ashamed your the one that needs to learn knowledge about islam its so clear from your every post that you have wrote on IB. I Mean if i am not going to tell you, nobody will!! you need to be corrected and put in your place. i suppose next you are going to make the lie of being a lawyer now lol i also live in Europe i have my own solicitor i can assure you i am aware of my rights and the rights of others now i am sincerely telling the OP to seek advice from a scholar and at the same time his duas will help you in your fight to see your children and so will mine inshaAllah.

If you are a muslim person and really good muslin person you will not push this man to divorce his wife because in the islam there is something we call it esslah between the husband and wife but you want it as a fitna , I wonder if your husband wants to divorce you and get marry an other women how will you feel then you will understand what iam talking about so think before you talk and dont make comments on my posts otherwise you will not like what you will hear

[nilufer]

[QUOTE=nilufer;1258055]If you are a muslim person and really good muslin person you will not push this man to divorce his wife because in the islam there is something we call it esslah between the husband and wife but you want it as a fitna , I wonder if your husband wants to divorce you and get marry an other women how will you feel then you will understand what iam talking about so think before you talk and dont make comments on my posts otherwise you will not like what you will hear and the one who need to be corrected is you and not me be carefull what you are saying

[cat eyes]

If you are a muslim person and really good muslin person you will not push this man to divorce his wife because in the islam there is something we call it esslah between the husband and wife but you want it as a fitna , I wonder if your husband wants to divorce you and get marry an other women how will you feel then you will understand what iam talking about so think before you talk and dont make comments on my posts otherwise you will not like what you will hear

how on earth do you know whether he is entilted to divorce or not?? are u a scholar? do you know his wife?? are you in his position?? did you read that she is giving him threats and insulting his imaan and on top of all of this he was forced into this marriage from a very early age. imagine what the atmosphere is like for there kids.. constantly fighting, have you any idea?? you clearly have not read none of his posts at all you are just throwing out whatever silly thing that comes into your brain. now i wonder what you are going to say next ha maybe that you are knower of all holy Qur'an and you know every single hadith also. if were ruler of the world and making the decisions everybody would be miserable

[Hamza Asadullah]

how on earth do you know whether he is entilted to divorce or not?? are u a scholar? do you know his wife?? are you in his position?? did you read that she is giving him threats and insulting his imaan and on top of all of this he was forced into this marriage from a very early age. imagine what the atmosphere is like for there kids.. constantly fighting, have you any idea?? you clearly have not read none of his posts at all you are just throwing out whatever silly thing that comes into your brain. now i wonder what you are going to say next ha maybe that you are knower of all holy Qur'an and you know every single hadith also. if were ruler of the world and making the decisions everybody would be miserable

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, my sisters this is getting truly ridiculous now. The brother has opened up to us about such a painful situation that he is in wanting our advice and support and you two are polluting this thread with your constant squabbling. Does this behaviour befit a Muslim?

Are you two here to argue? or to learn, help, share and advise? Review your intentions and ask each other for forgiveness and repent to Allah for your behaviour and end this childish behaviour right now!

What kind of impression are you showing to others who come in here to find the truth and they see you two squabbling away.

Let us be the best examples to mankind and not behave in this pathetic manner.

May Allah unite us all and give us patience and tolerance and give us the ability to treat others the best. Ameen

[CosmicPathos]

To the OP:

This is the very very first thing you need to do. Get rid of any Pakistani cultural baggage that might make your decisions biased. If Islam allows you to divorce this wife but your culture (family, parents, relatives, neighbors) is not allowing to do so then please, rebel against this Pakistaniant for Allah's sake. Throw it out. Flush it down the drain. Do only what Islam allows you to do. In this case, i do think you have the permission to divorce this wife as the whole foundation of this marriage was wrong. Your mistake is that you were unable to hold your emotions and committed sexual intercourse with her even though you dont like her and are not attracted to her. Desires taking over the mind, should I say? Anyways, without being harsh, do what is Islamic and avoid what is Pakistani.

[TotalControl]

Salaam

Wow, where to start after the heated discussions on here?

Thank you to the brother above for giving me the sound advice alongside sister cat eyes et al.

To Nilufier. I accept the posts have been in the best of heart and take this advice with the intent for you to receive swaab for the information. However, I believe you may be a little deluded into the situation seeing the story through a misty lens.

Women are equally as different to each other as men are. Your state of mind and level of intellect differentiate you from others. Hidden agendas are what make up a diseased relationship. Where the hidden agenda is strong, the relationship will only go one way, downhill. I would rather spend my life with an honest woman than one with hidden agendas against me. Simple.

Lets focus also on physical attributes of the individual entity of prettyness you mention, putting the state of mind to one side (however, this is actually the main bit as physical appearances are a temporary blessing). If, as you say, a woman is the same regardless, would you think of an unwashed, untrimmed woman to be the same as a clean woman? Personal hygiene should theoretically be at the forefront of ones iman to stay pure. But please, correct me if I'm wrong.

I just want to express my feelings here for everyone to undestand my thoughts. I hate my culture. No, scrap that. I despise my culture. For something as miniscule as culture to dilute the true faith from the heart and mind is evil in my honest opinion. How can it be put ahead of your Iman? So if your saying is correct and I was to go back to her and live a 'normal' life, it still does not release the issue of me being underage at the time of marriage. The legal age of consent for a male in Pakistan is 18. So even, legally, under the roof of 'culture', an unlawful sin has been committed. One that she knew about, accepted to and understood fully. She was a fully grown adult. And one who did not object to the marriage but actually wanted to go ahead. What is the word called for someone who marries a child? It's wrong for me to say so I shant, but you get the picture.

Nilufier, please respond to my above qoutation as I would like to listen to what you have to say. Afterall, this is a mature conversation with hard facts. I am not trying to embarass you or even misguide you towards my situation. I am merely here to state personal facts for the benefit of not just myself, but also for others to read, understand and avoid.

To cat eyes, Rab'iya and Larocque. This is as far as my undestanding goes. I do not wish to interfere with my (ex) wifes life. That is between her and her maker. She may do as she pleases. But I can seriously see her using these children, my children, as puppets for her own welfare. These innocents are also going to be used against me, which I will not let happen. Somehow, anyway possible.

My latest issue of her not giving me the Nikah papers to solve this issue is very irritating. I have also found out that she is to be going to Pakistan tomorrow with the children for 2 weeks. I am stuck in a situation of not really knowing where to look for help for my release.

Only Allah (swt) knows the future. Not mere mortals like us.

Wasalaam

[arabianprincess]

salam wa 3lykom..
i was reading ur post and seriously it makes me sad to know people would force there kids to get married wen they dont really want n on top of that u were really young.. it would be different if u wanted to.. my opinion on this issuse from wat u have said is to basically divorce her . there is no point in being with someone u dont want and its not fair for both of u to suffer so if u know u have feelings for anther woman then u know wat u have to do.and hopefully everythin works out for the best ! take care

[Italianguy]

"Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah” (did I say that right?)

Well, i know that honesty is they best policy so here i go. I was once in your situation(or similar) noone knows (until now) but i feel as if youneed all the help you can get. When i turned 16 i was told that i would marry a woman i never met, and it was already being arranged. She was Greek and I am Italian, (imagine that one.lol) we where married in 2000 and had my son in 2001. she was supposed to have been on birth control methods but lied to me. We never got along and never really loved each other(not like we new what love was anyway). She told me after only 2 years of mariage that she had been seeing someone else. This is actually one of only 2 or 3 reasons a Christian is allowed to divorce. Even though she commited adaulry I still tried to make it work. That did not happen and she drewup law papers to divorce. She moved ot within a month and got her own place. I had to pay for all this, well i did for awhile. She ended p preganant with the same guys child and they are living together now UNMARRIED! This is the only reason I have the angel i have in my life right now(my wife) trust me its hard, her parents hat ethe idea that i have been married before and have a child by previous marriage. (they are Indian) so you can immagiane what its like for me.

My advice to you would be this; Do not divorce unless she leaves you or if she leaves you. Make sure you have both tried verything possible to fix and talk about your problems.

Do not see this other woman with out her father knowing first! You must approach the father, I can't stress this enough. If you think you have problems now, wait until you see a father when he finds out from someone else. Gaurd your integrity an reputation, and more imortantly the womans!

The most important thing about this is not you or her though. It is the children. You know they follow everything you do, and you must e a rolemodel for these beautiful children you have. Both of you. Your children will grow up in your image, so you wan’t the best image and strength in faith possible.

I hope this helps in some way. I know I am not Muslim, and don’t understand the different dynamics of an Islamic marriage. I do happen to understand though the role of the father and a mother.

Please, if you need more help or just need someone to talk to, do not hesitate to send me a message. I promise I won’t try to influence you in any Christian way. I just want o help a brother in need. Plus I do understand a little Hindi, if that’s what you speek? Also Tamil and Urdu. Oh yeah and Italian too.lol

Lastly Allah has already written your plan, knows what is in your heart, and guides you daily. Pray about this, bring it infront of God. Follow Allah’s word.
May Allah help you brother!

[Donia]

Asalaamu alaikum rahmatullahi wa barakatu.

I find this situation to be really sad on many different levels. The one positive thing that I see that clearly shines through is that through all this you have gotten closer to Allah ta'aala and that is a good thing.
I am only reading your side and I know there's two sides to every story but based on what you're saying, I feel sad for your little boys.
It would be so nice for them to have a father figure especially a good one as you appear to be.
There's so many dads (and moms too) out there that just don't give a you know what about their kids. When I see parents that obviously do and the other parent keeps the kids from them just out of spite or whatever it is... it's just sad to me because the only people who are going to suffer are the children.
I will make dua for you brother.
Put your trust in Allah..
Sufficient is Allah as a disposer of affairs. That is in the Quran and forgive me for not putting the exact verse. Astaghfurillah.
Salaam alaikum.

[nilufer]

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, my sisters this is getting truly ridiculous now. The brother has opened up to us about such a painful situation that he is in wanting our advice and support and you two are polluting this thread with your constant squabbling. Does this behaviour befit a Muslim?

Are you two here to argue? or to learn, help, share and advise? Review your intentions and ask each other for forgiveness and repent to Allah for your behaviour and end this childish behaviour right now!

What kind of impression are you showing to others who come in here to find the truth and they see you two squabbling away.

Let us be the best examples to mankind and not behave in this pathetic manner.

May Allah unite us all and give us patience and tolerance and give us the ability to treat others the best. Ameen

Iam not polluting this topic but iam giving my advice as any of you and iam right because the islam didnt say to push people or to give them idea to divorce the islam said to help the couple first then if it doesnt work its their decision to get divorce and is not yours nor mine nor others decision plus she is the only one start commented on my post and start insulting me and it is my right to reply kind of people iam their medicine

[Hamza Asadullah]

Salaam

Wow, where to start after the heated discussions on here?

Thank you to the brother above for giving me the sound advice alongside sister cat eyes et al.

To Nilufier. I accept the posts have been in the best of heart and take this advice with the intent for you to receive swaab for the information. However, I believe you may be a little deluded into the situation seeing the story through a misty lens.

Women are equally as different to each other as men are. Your state of mind and level of intellect differentiate you from others. Hidden agendas are what make up a diseased relationship. Where the hidden agenda is strong, the relationship will only go one way, downhill. I would rather spend my life with an honest woman than one with hidden agendas against me. Simple.

Lets focus also on physical attributes of the individual entity of prettyness you mention, putting the state of mind to one side (however, this is actually the main bit as physical appearances are a temporary blessing). If, as you say, a woman is the same regardless, would you think of an unwashed, untrimmed woman to be the same as a clean woman? Personal hygiene should theoretically be at the forefront of ones iman to stay pure. But please, correct me if I'm wrong.

I just want to express my feelings here for everyone to undestand my thoughts. I hate my culture. No, scrap that. I despise my culture. For something as miniscule as culture to dilute the true faith from the heart and mind is evil in my honest opinion. How can it be put ahead of your Iman? So if your saying is correct and I was to go back to her and live a 'normal' life, it still does not release the issue of me being underage at the time of marriage. The legal age of consent for a male in Pakistan is 18. So even, legally, under the roof of 'culture', an unlawful sin has been committed. One that she knew about, accepted to and understood fully. She was a fully grown adult. And one who did not object to the marriage but actually wanted to go ahead. What is the word called for someone who marries a child? It's wrong for me to say so I shant, but you get the picture.

Nilufier, please respond to my above qoutation as I would like to listen to what you have to say. Afterall, this is a mature conversation with hard facts. I am not trying to embarass you or even misguide you towards my situation. I am merely here to state personal facts for the benefit of not just myself, but also for others to read, understand and avoid.

To cat eyes, Rab'iya and Larocque. This is as far as my undestanding goes. I do not wish to interfere with my (ex) wifes life. That is between her and her maker. She may do as she pleases. But I can seriously see her using these children, my children, as puppets for her own welfare. These innocents are also going to be used against me, which I will not let happen. Somehow, anyway possible.

My latest issue of her not giving me the Nikah papers to solve this issue is very irritating. I have also found out that she is to be going to Pakistan tomorrow with the children for 2 weeks. I am stuck in a situation of not really knowing where to look for help for my release.

Only Allah (swt) knows the future. Not mere mortals like us.

Wasalaam

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, my brother this is surely a dire situation to be in especially when children are involved. Forced marriages are not too common in Pakistan itself but they do occur in some backward villages as well as amongst Kashmiri and Mirpuri communities.

I am sure it was a terrible ordeal for you as it is for anyone to have to go through. Having to go through such an ordeal at that age must have left you confused and dissillusioned.

I myself have a few friends who have gone through the same and it does ruin lives that is why we do feel for you and anyone else who goes through forced marriages.

These situations become even more difficult to deal with when children are involved as they are innocent in this and they should not have to suffer by not having their real father or mother around because of a seperation.

This situation is far to complex and difficult for anyone of us lay people in here to give you the best solution to.

That is why I would really recommend that you find a reliable, experienced and knowledgeable scholar so that he can give you the best solution as to what would be best to do in such a situation.

Also ask of Allah sincerely especially on the times when dua's are most accepted and ask of him that he gives you the best solution to this situation.

Know that Allah tests those who he wants closest to him so never say to Allah 'why' but bare with it with patience and Allah is with those who are patient and the reward for patience is Jannah.

and Allah knows best

[umm junaid]

Salam bruva

your in such a painful situation and all i can say ALLAH KNOWS BEST, just make sure u pray salat al istikhara and just keep on prayin to allah and he will eventually feed your needs.

wish you all the best.