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IbnAbdulHakim
08-05-2008, 11:41 AM
Women were happy with life till the feminists made them start competing on every unhealthy level with men


i just hope


YOU


dont become one or a supporter of one.

They really are terrible






...ok fine i just made this thread to use that finger :( it was fun though
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Faye
08-05-2008, 11:58 AM
An exceptional specimen of fingerhood, I do declare.:statisfie

I just couldn't resist saying that: where else would I ever get the opportunity?:D

But truly a wonderful finger. I saved a copy, in case I might need it in the future.
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Tania
08-05-2008, 12:19 PM
Your finger open a very delicate debate about how happy were the women in previous centuries and how happy are they now.

I like the finger drawning :)
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Faye
08-05-2008, 01:04 PM
Originally Posted by Tania
Your finger open a very delicate debate about how happy were the women in previous centuries and how happy are they now.

I like the finger drawning :)
I don't think there is sufficient reason to open that can of worms. Let's just admire the finger and leave it at that.
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Re.TiReD
08-05-2008, 01:20 PM
:salamext:

:ooh:

Three fingers are pointing back at you :ooh:

Lol kiddin, nice use of thread...summin like what I would do when I'm bored *outta* :ooh:

:wasalamex
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FatimaAsSideqah
08-05-2008, 01:22 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Loq nice to put like that way!
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Al-Zaara
08-05-2008, 02:19 PM
Selam aleykum,

Originally Posted by Faye
I don't think there is sufficient reason to open that can of worms. Let's just admire the finger and leave it at that.
You think?

I believe there could have been MANY other kinds of way to use the finger, to have another, more random and 'neutral' topic to use the finger with, like:

"It's up to YOU *add finger*... if you enter Jannah or not." :D Hmmm?


I don't like the sound of the first sentence, for there isn't only bad with feminism, depends how you look at it and what kinds of feminism you mean. Of course for the men who declinded women their rights and locked them in their houses, it's one of the most evil things. Then they are reminded of male chauvinism. A balance is always needed, some feminists went over the top with it, others again were able to grant rights in places where nowadays people take for granted.

Just wanted to say that, not meaning to start a debate, but was annoyed at the first sentence, though I think the thread-starter meant it more on an none-serious note, but I've heard similiar too much lately, had to react.
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-05-2008, 02:21 PM
islaam gave rights


isa alaihissalaam im sure attempted to give rights

im sure musa alaihissalaam attempted to give rights

all to women



religion was always there for the rights of the women WITH THE RIGHT BALANCE


feminism came and disturbed that balance
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Al-Zaara
08-05-2008, 02:25 PM
And what about chauvinism? It came and disturbed the balance aswell.

Aswell, Islam isn't superior everywhere. I am glad if situations changed everywhere, no matter what religion. No man or women deserves to be looked down at just 'cause of the "wrong" sex. I do know Islam gives rights to women that others didn't have before and the like, I'm not saying that. I'm saying in some places, it was needed. And although Islam gives those rights and equal status, the Muslims in some places/households obviously didn't care for many were surpressed. That's reality.
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Khalisah
08-05-2008, 02:27 PM
:sl:
feminism destroyed the balance? Religion may have given the women the rights to women, but un-religious men or men who wanted power more than anything disturbed the balance, and thats when femenism started in order to restore the balance, and just as with everything in life some may get carried away and become extreme.
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-05-2008, 02:28 PM
^ your very welcome to make a thread about chauvanism and you can rest assured i will be against such behaviour.

finally, sis al-zaara, do you sympathise with feminists?
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-05-2008, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by darkchocolate
:sl:
feminism destroyed the balance? Religion may have given the women the rights to women, but un-religious men or men who wanted power more than anything disturbed the balance, and thats when femenism started in order to restore the balance, and just as with everything in life some may get carried away and become extreme.
feminism is the name of that extreme.

The women who attempted to justly restore balance alongst with righteous men will NOT be called feminists. Because they avoided that extreme
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Al-Zaara
08-05-2008, 02:31 PM
Yes, brother ibnabdulhakim, with some yes, especially those who lived during the most difficult times for women, whatever their colour, location or religion. With those who go over the top, I don't. Extreme cases are never nice.
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Al-Zaara
08-05-2008, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
feminism is the name of that extreme.
No, it's not. Just replace the word 'feminism' with 'Islam' and change the one who said it to an non-Muslim, would you like it? No. Feminism has gone through many stages, and the are many sub-groups. The core of it was to give women similiar rights and not put up with what the bad men did to them. Gain back the rights they knew they deserved and the appreciation.
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Khalisah
08-05-2008, 02:36 PM
Feminism isn't the extreme, it is the term for the woman who fought for their rights. You cannot say that all women who fougt for their rights are extreme, but they were all called femenists. It only becomes extreme when your actions become extreme....this really isnt helping me finish my IDS:cry:
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TrueStranger
08-05-2008, 02:36 PM
......................
:w:
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Khalisah
08-05-2008, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
No, it's not. Just replace the word 'feminism' with 'Islam' and change the one who said it to an non-Muslim, would you like it? .
I was was going to use Islam as an example too lol!
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-05-2008, 02:42 PM
did i offend a huge number of people with this thread? :|


i hope not :$


THE FEMINIST MOVEMENT AND
THE MUSLIM WOMAN
Maryam Jameelah


The most radical movement in recent times which is revolutionizing the whole social structure and changing the entire basis of human relationships is the Feminist movement, popularly known as the drive for Women’s Liberation.

The Feminist movement is not a unique product of the modern age. Its historical precedents reach back into antiquity. In his Republic, Plato advocated the abolition of the family and social roles determined by sex; in literature, the ancient Greek classical comedy, Lypsistrata and much marc recently, Henrick Ibsen’s (1828-1906) drama, A Doll’s House preached feminist ideals. The Victorian economist and philosopher, John Stuart Mill and the German socialist, Friedrich Engels in his essay, The Subjection of Women, which he wrote in 1869, laid the core foundations of Feminism. In 1884 Angels publicly proclaimed marriage as a “dreary mutation of slavery,” urged its abolition and suggested public responsibility for the rearing of children.

In America, Feminism was the outgrowth of the movement for the abolition of slavery and the Temperance movement for the legal banning of liquor. Women who joined these organizations soon discovered that to make their cause effective, they required political power. The historical milestone of the Feminist movement was the Seneca Falls Convention in 1948 which in its manifesto, demanded women’s rights to her complete control over her property and the he right to divorce her husband, guardianship of the children and an end to sexual discrimination in* employment along with the right to receive equal pay with men for the same work, and most important, female franchise. As the campaign for women’s suffrage grew, the more conservative Feminists limited their cause to the single issue of suffrage. In 1920 with the passage of the 19th amendment to the American constitution giving women the vote, the majority of women activists as ‘well, as the public assumed that with female franchise, women’s rights had been fully obtained. After this, the Feminist movement lay dormant for more then than forty years.

On December 14, 1961, President John F. Kennedy signed an Executive order establishing the President’s Commission on the status of women. Its mandate was “to examine and recommend remedies to combat the prejudices and obsolete customs and morals which act as obstacles to the complete realization of women’s rights.” The President’s Commission was the first official body ever to examine the status of in the United States.

Thus the “silent fifties” came to an abrupt end with the beginnings of Feminist confrontation politics in the early 1960’s – marches, pickets and sit-ins. College and university girls began to participate in these political activities.

In contrast to the women who assembled at the Seneca Falls Convention in 1848 and merely protested against the ill-treatment and abuse of women by drunken husbands and achievement of their legitimate rights in marriage, control of property and earnings and equal pay with men for the same work, the demands of the modern successors are far more radical. In the largest most enthusiastic Feminist demonstration ever held, on August 26, 1970, hundreds of women marched down Fifth Avenue, New York City carrying placards which read:

HOUSEWIVES ARE UNPAID SLAVES! STATE PAY FOR HOUSEWORK! OPPRESSED WOMEN! DON’T COOK DINNER! STARVE YOUR HUSBAND TONIGHT! END HUMAN SACRIFICE! DON’T GET MARRIED! WASHING DIAPERS IS NOT FULFILLING! LEGALISE ABORTION! DEPENDENCY IS NOT HEALTHY STATE OF BEING!

Today’s Feminists are implacably opposed to any social roles being determined by sex. Feminists assert the absolute and unqualified equality of men and women, not withstanding anatomical differences. They deny that there is any inherent biological distinction between men and women on the basis of sex which determines that the wife should be the housewife and mother and the husband the breadwinner and authoritarian head of the family. They believe that women should take just as active role in sexual intercourse as men and not be passive. They demand the abolition of institutional marriage, home and family, asset complete female sexual freedom and that the upbringing should be a public responsibility. They insist that all women should be given the right to complete control over their reproductive lives. They are demanding that all restrictions must be lifted from laws governing contraception so that devices can be publicly advertised and available over the druggist counter to any women regardless of her age and marital status and purchasable without a doctor’s prescription. All laws restricting abortion should be removed and that women have a legal right to abortion at any stage of pregnancy. Abortions should not only be available at demand but should be supplied free by the state to any women who wants one so that the poor can take full advantage of facility.

In schools all course must be equally co-educational – home economics must no be exclusively female and shop mechanics for boys. Segregation must be broken down in gymnasiums and physical education. Girls should be allowed to compete in all sports and physical exercises with boys at all ages. All mass-media must be radically changed to eliminate sex-stereotyping roles and portray women as equal to men in all fields of work and production. Children’s books are criticized by feminists because they do not show in their stories more single-parent families, unmarried mothers and divorces women as models for the children. Girls should be given mechanical toys to play with and boys should be given dolls. Instead of traditional institutions of marriage, home and family, radical Feminists propose men and women living in large communes where the welfare and rearing of the children would be public responsibility. They are demanding that child-care centers are made available to parents on a 24-hour basis provided to the public as free on demand just as parks, libraries and recreational facilities are taken for granted in most American communities. Women must be financially independent and no profession or occupation should be banned to her on account of her sex.

A lot of women who may say that they just want to play the traditional roles are simply fearful - or unable to imagine other ways of being. Old roles can seem to offer a certain security. Freedom can seem frightening especially if one has learned how to achieve a certain degree of power inside prison. Perhaps they are just afraid of choices. We don’t seek to impose any*thing on women but merely to open up all possible alter*natives. We do seek choice as one of the functions, which makes people human beings. We want to be full people, crippled neither by law or custom or our own-chained minds. If there us no room in that in nature, then nature must be changed!1

One of the “alternative choices” for women the Feminists seek to make socially acceptable is Lesbianism (female homosexuality). One of the branches of feminism is the homophile organization known as The Daughters of Bilitis the aim of which is to promote Lesbianism.

The women’s liberation movement has members who were lesbians before its existence and those who have become lesbians since their involvement with the movement. For some of the latter, Lesbianism is a form of political protest. Say the radical feminists. “Lesbianism is one road to freedom - freedom from oppression by men.”2

The Lesbian minority in America, which may run as high at ten million women, is a woman, who is drawn erotically to women rather than to men. Perhaps the most logical and least hysterical of all statements about homosexuality is the following by Dr. Joel Fort psychiatrist and public health specialist and Dr. Joe K. Adams, psychologist and former mental health officer. The statement made in August 1966 is as follows: “Homosexuals like heterosexuals should be treated as individual human beings and not as a special group either by law or social agencies or employers. Laws governing sexual behavior should be reformed to deal only with clearly anti-social behavior involving violence or youth. The sexual behavior of individual adults by mutual Consent in private should not be a matter of public concern.3

What is the end-result of the radical feminist movement? What kind of society does Women’s Liberation seek to attain?

Thus women for men are alternatively angels and slaves to be worshipped one minute and spurned and exploited the next but seldom treated as equals. Concerning sex, our society has taught total abstinence for the first decade of sexual maturity (even masturbation is considered at best an unavoidable evil,) then life-long fidelity to one partner. All the while society does its best both to keep us ignorant and confused about what a well developed sex-life can be and to convince us that the forbidden fruits of promiscuity surpass anything the “moral’ person can ever taste. What a bundle of paradoxes! If instead we could face without flinching our homosexual impulses and curiosity about how this or that act with such a person might feel, then we might be able to distinguish between an impulse which is immoral and involuntary and action which of course must be taken deliberately in accordance with its likely consequences and our overall values and goals. What would happen if men rejected the male stereotype and acknowledged the values of oneness, humility, discussion, consideration, cooperation and compromise along with humility, respectful disagreement and conflict. We would not deny the richness of our sexual imagination nor the natural sexual element in all relationships. Just how it occurs-talking, touching, dancing or making love should be our guilt-free choice based on our own honest needs rather than a “moral” “masculine” stereotype.

What about the question of “fidelity” to one partner versus a diverse sex-life? Most adults seem to need to have a primary relationship, which comes before all others. If a problem in the primary relationship, which is the most demanding but also the most potentially rewarding kind, makes us try to escape through an outside flirtation or “affair,” this is bad not because of the sexual acts committed but because it is an escape. The problem remains unsolved.

All our relationships tend to be over-reserved. We need to loosen up and learn to express affection-openly and physically. Would men’s and women’s liberation of the sort I have just described destroy the traditional American family? I think so. It is an institution with many drawbacks. Considerations of efficiency and economy and exposure to the difficulties and opportunities inherent in larger groups living and working together make it a good idea to experiment with some “communal” kinds of arrangement.4

In Muslim countries, fortunately, the Feminist movement has not yet touched such extremes as this but as a result of westernization, Purdah is rapidly disappearing and women, revolting against their tradi*tional roles, are patterning their lives more and more am the models of their Western sisters.

In the more fashionable and well-to-do urban classes, par*ticularly in Tehran, the women spend less time in household work and more in social, professional, recreational and philan*thropic activities. To go to the dress-maker or the hair-dresser, to have morning coffee or lunch with friends, to shop and attend parties, these constitute the daily routine for such women. They also enjoy taking meals in fine restaurants, going on holidays and engaging in sports. An increasing number of women of this class take an interest in cultural and charitable work. (p. 77)

In the cities of Lebanon, women are increasingly seen outside the home. On Sundays there are as many women as men on the crowded beaches of Beirut - the younger generation, of course. Beach behavior undoubtedly is a symbol of the loosening of bonds. In Lebanon the acceptance of Western dress styles has reached a stage where among the westernized middle and upper classes, there is little restraint even on those girls who wish to dress provocatively. In all social groups girls display a tremendous preoccupation with clothes and they are not usually casual clothes except for beach wear or picnics. In the winter suits are worn but in summer the standard garb for the university girl is a tight silk dress or skirt and a more or less transparent blouse. High heels and nylon stockings are standard and make-up is elaborate. Some Muslim girls (not university students) wear a completely transparent symbolic veil over their faces. A few years ago, girls were shy about being seen on the beaches with bathing suits, especially in a bikini. Now they take it in their stride and many wear scanty two-piece bathing suits. (pp. 122-123)5

Feminism is an unnatural, artificial and abnormal product of contemporary social disintegration, which in turn is the inevitable result of the rejection of all trans*cendental, absolute moral and spiritual values. The student of anthropology and history can be certain of the abnormality of the Feminist movement because all human cultures that we know of throughout prehistorically and historic times make a definite clear-cut distinction between “masculinity” and “femininity” and pattern the social roles of men and women accordingly. The disintegration of the home and family, the loss of the authoritarian role of the father and sexual promiscuity have been directly responsible for the decline and fall of every nation which these evils become prevalent.

Some may argue that if this is so, why is Western civilization so extraordinarily vigorous and dynamic and despite its decadence and moral corruption, still unchallenged in its world-domination?

When moral depravity, self-worship and sensual indulgence have touched extremes; when men and women, young and old have become lost in sexual craze; when men have been completely perverted by sexual excitements, the natural consequences leading a nation to total collapse will inevitably follow. People who witness the progress and prosperity of such declining nations, which indeed stand on the very brink of an abyss of fire, are led to conclude that their self-indulgence is not imped*ing their progress but accelerating it. They think that a nation is at the peak of its prosperity when its people are highly self-indulgent. But this is a sad conclusion. When the constructive and destructive forces are both working side by side and the constructive aspect on the whole seems to have an edge over the destructive aspect, it is wrong to count the latter among the factors leading to the former.

Take, for instance, the case of a clever merchant who is earning high profits by dint of his intelligence, hard-work and experience. But at the same time, if he is given to drink, gambling and leads a care-free life, will it not be misleading to regard that side of his life as contributing to his well-being and prosperity? As a matter of fact, the first set of qualities is helping him to prosper whereas the second set is pulling him down. If on account of the positive qualities, he is flourishing, it does not mean that the negative forces are ineffective. It may be that the devil of gambling brings his whole fortune to naught in a moment and it may be that the devil of drinking leads him to commit a fatal mistake rendering him bankrupt and it may be that the devil of sexual indul*gence leads him to commit murder, suicide or some other calamity. One cannot imagine how prosperous and triumphant he would have been had he not fallen a prey to these evils.

Similarly is the case with a nation. In the beginning it receives an impetus from constructive forces but then, due to lack of proper guidance, it begins to gather round it the means of its own destruction. For a while the constructive forces drag it along under the momentum already gained. But the destructive forces that are working simultaneously weaken it so much that one stray shock can send it sprawling to its doom.6

Where can salvation for humanity be found?

From the point of view of social structure, the teachings of the Shariah emphasize the role of the family as the unit of society - the family in the extend*ed sense and not in its atomized, nuclear modem form. The greatest social achievement of the Prophet in Medina was precisely in breaking the existing tribal bonds and substituting religious ones which were connected on the one hand with the totality of the Muslim community and on the other hand with the family. The Muslim family is the miniature of the whole of Muslim society and its firm basis. In it, the man or father functions as the Imam in accordance with the patriarchal nature of Islam. The religious responsi*bility of the family rests upon his shoulders. In the family, the father upholds the tenets of the faith and his authority symbolizes that of God in the world. The man is in fact respected in the family precisely because of the sacerdotal function that he fulfils. The rebellion of Muslim women in certain quarters of Islamic society came when men themselves ceased to fulfil their religious function and lost their virile and patriarchal character. By becoming themselves effemi*nate, they caused the reaction of revolt among certain women who no longer felt the authority of religion upon themselves.

The traditional family is also the unit of stability of society and the four wives that a Muslim can marry, like the four-sided Ka’aba, symbolize this stability. Many have not understood why such a family structure is permitted in Islam and attack Islam for it as if polygamy belongs to Islam alone. Here and again Muslim modernism carries with it the pre*judice of Christianity against polygamy to the extent that some have gone even so far as to call it immoral and prefer promiscuity to a social pattern which minimizes all illicit relations to the extent possible. The problem of the attitude of the Western observer is not as important as that segment of modernized Muslim society which itself cannot understand the teachings of the Shariah on this point simply because it uses as criteria categories borrowed from the modern West.

There is no doubt that in a small but significant segment of Muslim society today, there is a revolt of women against traditional Islamic society. In every civilisation a reaction always comes against an existing force or action. In Islam, the very patriarchal and masculine nature of the tradition makes the revolt of those women who have become aggressively modernised more violent and virulent than, let us say, in Hinduism, where the maternal element has always been strong. What many modernised Muslim women are doing in rebelling against the traditional Muslim family structure is to rebel against fourteen centuries of Islam itself although many may not be aware of the inner forces that drive them on. It is the patriarchal nature of Islam that makes the reaction of some modernised women today so vehement. Although very limited in number, they are, in fact, more than Muslim men, thirsting for all things Western. They seek to become modernised in their dress and habits with impetuosity, which would be difficult to understand unless one considers the deep psycho*logical factors involved.

From the Islamic point of view, the question of the equality of men and women is meaningless. It is like discussing the equality of a rose and a jasmine. Each has its own perfume, colour, shape and beauty. Men and women are not the same. Each has particular features and characteristics. Women are not equal to men. But neither are men equal to women. Islam envisages their roles in society not as competing but as complimentary. Each has certain duties and functions in accordance with his or her nature and constitution.

Man possesses certain privileges such as social authority and mobility against which he has to perform many heavy duties. First of all, he bears all economic responsibility. It is his duty to support his family completely even if his wife is rich and despite the fact that she is economically independent. A woman in a traditional Islamic society does not have to worry about earning a living. There is always a family completely even if his wife is rich and despite die fact that she is economically independent. A woman in traditional Islamic society does not have to worry about earning a living. There is always the larger family structure in which she can find a place and take refuge from social and economic pressures even if she has no husband or father. In the extended family system, a man often supports not only his wife and children but also his mother, sister, aunts, in-laws and sometimes even cousins and more distant relatives. Therefore in city life, the necessity of having to find a job at all costs and having to bear the economic pressure of life is lifted from the shoulders of women. As for the countryside, the family is itself the economic unit and the work is achieved by the larger family or tribal unit together.

Secondly, a woman does not have to find a husband for herself. Site does not have to display her charms and make the thousand and one plans through which she hopes to attract a future mate. The terrible anxiety of having to find a husband and of missing the opportunity if one does not try hard enough at the right moment is spared the Muslim woman. Being able to remain true to her nature, she can afford to sit at home and wait for her parents or guardian to choose a suitable match. This usually leads to a marriage which, being based on the sense of religious duty and enduring family and social bonds between the two sides, is more lasting arid ends much more rarely in divorce than the marriages which are based on the sentiments of the moment that often do not develop into more permanent relationships.

Thirdly the Muslim woman is spared direct military and political responsibility although in rare cases there have been women warriors. This point may appear as a deprivation to some but in the light of the real needs of feminine nature, it is easy to see that for most women, such duties weigh heavily upon them. Even in modern societies, which through the equalitarian process have tried to equate men and women as if there were no difference in the two sexes, Women are usually spared the military draft except in extreme circumstances.

In return for these privileges which the woman receives, she has also certain responsibilities of which the most important is to provide a home for her family and to bring up her children properly. In the home the woman rules as queen and a Muslim man is in a sense the guest of his wife at home. The home and the larger family structure in which she lives are for the Muslim woman her world. To be cut off from it would be like being cut off from the world or like dying. She finds the meaning of her existence in this extended family structure which is constructed so as to give her the maximum possibility of realizing her basic needs and fulfilling herself.

The Shariah therefore envisages the role of men and women according to their nature, which is compli*mentary. It gives the man the privilege of social and political authority and movement for which he has to pay by bearing heavy responsibilities, by protecting his family from all the forces and pressures of society, economic and otherwise. Although a master in the world at large and the head of his own family, the man acts in his home as one who recognize the rule of his wife, in this domain and respects it. Through mutual under*standing and the realization of the responsibilities that God has placed on each other’s shoulders, the Muslim man and woman are able to fulfill their personalities and create a firm family unit which is the basic struc*ture of Muslim society.7

In the vehement rejection of the cultural, moral and spiritual values, indispensable for maintaining the institution of the family, those who support the Women’s Liberation Movement are revolting against the whole Christian heritage of their own civilization.

Despite the evils of its feudalistic society and the abuses of the authority of the priesthood, medieval Europe enjoyed a social integration, stability, peace and harmony which is unknown to modern Europe. Here is a vivid and moving description of Christian family values practically implemented in medieval Europe as taken from the family chronicles of the famous German artist, Albrecht Durer (1471-1528) who, although a devout Christian, presents a picture of his own home life as very close to Islamic ideals.

Albrecht Durer, my beloved father, came to Germany, and stayed for a long time in the low countries, working with the great masters and finally came here to Nuremberg in the year of Our Lord 1455 on St. Eligius’s day. And on this same day (June 25th) there was the wedding of Philip Pircheimer in the castle and a great reception under the big lime tree. Thenceforth, for a long time, my beloved father, Albrecht Durer served the old Hiercrnonymus Holper until the year of our Lord 1467. Then he gave him his daughter Barbara, a handsome, virtuous maid, fifteen years of age and they were married eight days before St. Vitus (June 8).

This good mother of mine bore and brought up eighteen children, often had the pestilence and many other severe illnesses, endured great poverty, ridicule, scorn, alarm, and misfortune, yet she never bore revenge. These brothers and sisters of mine, my beloved father’s children, are all dead, some died young, the rest when adult. Only we three brothers are still living, so long as it may please God; namely, I, Albrecht and my brother Andreas, likewise my brother Hans. the third of that name out of my father’s children.

This said Albrecht Durer, the eider, worked hard all his life and had nothing else to live on but what he earned for him*self, his wife and his children with his own hands. He also had all manner of grief, temptation and adversity. And all who knew him praised him for he led an honourable Christian life, was a patient and gentle man, peaceable towards everyone and he was very thankful to God. He had little-use for society and worldly pleasures; he was also a man of few words and Godfearing. My beloved father took great pains to teach his children to honour the Lord. For his greatest wish was to bring up his children well so that they would be pleasing in the sight of God and man. Therefore he continually told us to love God and behave honourably towards our fellow men.

And my father was especially fond of me for he saw that I was eager to learn. Therefore he sent me to school and when I had learnt to read and write, he cook me away from school and taught me the goldsmith’s craft. And when I had mastered this, I felt that [would rather be a painter than a goldsmith. When I told my father this, he was not pleased for he grieved at the loss of time I had spent as his apprentice. But in the end, he let me have my way and in the year of our Lord 1486, on St. Andrew’s day (30th November) my father hound me as apprentice to Michael Wolgemut to serve him for three years. In that time God gave me diligence and I learnt well but I also had to suffer much at the hands of his assistants.

And after I had come home, Hans Frey negotiated with my father and gave me his daughter, Agnes and with her gave me 200 forms and we were married on Monday, July 7th before St. Margaret’s day in the year 1494.

Later it happened that my father became ill with dysentery and no one could cure him. And when he saw death approaching, he submitted to it calmly and patiently and commended my mother to my care and bade us to follow in the way of the Lord. He received the last sacraments and died a Christian death, leaving my mother a sorrowing widow. He had always praised her to me exceedingly as a most godly woman. Therefore I resolved never to forsake her.

All my friends! I ask you in God’s name when you read of my pious father’s death to say a Paternoster and an Ave Maria for his soul and for the sake of your souls too, that we may, by serving God succeed in living a good life and dying a good death. For it is not possible that one who has led a good life should die an evil death for God is merciful.

Now you shall know that in the year 5513, on a Tuesday before Rogation, my poor mother -whom I had taken care of for nine years since she came to live with me two years after my father died when she was quite penniless - was taken so ill early in the morning that we had to break open her door - for she was too weak to let us in and that that was the only way we could get to her. We brought her downstairs and she received both sacraments for everyone knew she was about to die. She had never been well since my father died.

More than a year from the said day on which she fell ill, in the year of our Lord, May 17, 1514, two hours before dark, my pious mother, Barbara Durer departed from this life with all the sacraments, absolved from pain and sin by papal authority. Before she died, she gave me her blessing and wished me divine peace with much good advice to guard myself from Sm. And she was most afraid of death but she said she was not afraid to meet God. And my mother’s death grieved me more than I can say. May God have mercy on her soul ! It was always her greatest pleasure to speak of God and see that we honoured Him. And it was her custom. to go regularly to church and she always scolded me heavily when I did wrong. And she was always anxious lest I or my brothers should sin. And whenever I went out or came in, she would say, “God be with you !“ And she constantly gave us solemn warning and had continual concern for our souls. And I cannot say enough about her good works and the kindness she showed to everybody or of her good name.

And it was in her sixty-third year when she died. And I buried her fittingly in accordance with my means. May the Lord grant me that I too die a Christian death and that I may join Him and His Heavenly Host, my father, my mother and my friends and may Almighty God give us eternal life! Amen. And in death she looked far sweeter than when she was still alive.8

A uni-sexual society be proposed be the feminists - that is, a society which makes no cultural or social distinction between the sexes, a society without mar*riage, home and family, where modesty, chastity and motherhood are scorned, does not represent “progress” or “liberation” but degradation at its worst. The result is pure and unadulterated anarchy, confusion and chaos.

If so, why is Feminism so popular?

The social order founded on materialism is the oldest and most popular. No social order is more satisfying, none so easy to evolve and so readily acceptable to the majority of men in all climes and at all times. It has such a deep attraction for the masses that its roots need not go deep into the soil nor is it necessary to raise the level of human intelligence or make any sacrifice for its sake. One requires no altruism or endur*ance. One need only drift with the “times.” History bears witness to the fact that no social order has so persistently come to have its sway over humanity as it has done.9

Never has moral corruption and social decadence menaced mankind on such a universal scale as is the case now. The adoption of feminist ideals degrades humans lower than the animals. For animals live by their instincts and cannot do anything opposed to their nature. Among animals, homosexuality is unknown. The male is only attracted to the female of its own species. The male animal never goes with lust to another male or a female to another female. Among animals, the maternal relationship is completely severed as soon as the young are able to look after themselves. In most species, the father takes no interest in its offspring. There is no such thing as modesty, chastity, marriage or filial ties among. beasts. These concepts are unique with human beings. They are found in every culture at every stage of civilization and history. The feminists wish to abolish the very characteristics, which make man human and undermine the foundation of all his relationships and social ties. The result will be suicide, not only of a single nation as in the past, but of the entire human race.



1 The Rebirth of Feminism, Judith Hole and Ellen Levine, The New York Tomies, New York, 1971, pp. 228

2 Ibid, p.240.

3 The New Woman; A Motive Anthology on Women’s Liberation, edited by Joanne Cooke and Charlotte Bunch-Weeks, New York, 1970. pp. 79-81.

4 Ibid., p.122-125.

5 Women in the Modern World, edited by Raphael Palai. The Free Press, New York 1967.

6 Purdah and the Status of Woman in Islam, Sayyid Abul ‘Ala Maudooda, Islamic Publications, Lahore, 1972, pp. 52-53.

7 Ideals and Realities of Islam, Syed Hossein Nasr, George AIIen & Unwin, London, 1966, pp. 110-113.

8 The Durer House in Nuremberg: Extracts from Durer’s Family Chronicles and Reminiscences, English translation by John M. Woolman, Nuremberg. pp. 34-46.

8 Religion and Civilization, Abul Hasan All Nadawi, Academy of Islamic Research and 8 Publications, Lucknow, 1970, p. 45.

http://www.islam101.com/women/jameelah.htm
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FatimaAsSideqah
08-05-2008, 02:47 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

The call for taking women out was not an easy one as it clashed with the natural instinctive feminine inclinations towards marriage, children, family and home. But the wildness of this proletariat project could not accept any obstacle in its way. Thus, the feminist agenda was invented in an attempt to convince women that such inclinations were not real but were constructed by norms and social upbringing and could easily be removed once women wanted to. Karl Marx had, after all, his famous slogan of "Pull down families".

Since its revelation, Islam has rejected all forms of serfdom, either direct outspoken serfdom, or the one enveloped by or sugar-coated with short-term materialistic gains.

Islam recognizes other matters rather than money to be the goals humans should aspire to. A normal human being has emotional and spiritual goals without which he or she can never survive even if he or she is wealthy.

Islam can not reconcile with a value system that deprives any human being - be it a man or a woman - from his or her basic right of choosing and being responsible for the choice, either right or wrong.
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Sahabiyaat
08-05-2008, 02:49 PM
i have nothing constructive to add
except that did you know males can be feminists too
my male teacher was one...........oh the arguments we had :D lol.
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-05-2008, 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by Sahabiyaat
i have nothing constructive to add
except that did you know males can be feminists too
my male teacher was one...........oh the arguments we had :D lol.
please share one :D
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Khalisah
08-05-2008, 02:52 PM
Its un-natural in the sense that women should have to feel a need to fight for basic rights which they should have anyway, such as voting and some sort of voice in matters regarding the public. In that way yes it has become an uneccessary method, but the reasons were not unnatural. yes it has become extreme in some cases, but that shouldnt nulify the benefit that they have had on society. I know that once you start thinking as a feminist it is easy to get carried away.. but as with everything you should know your own limits, whats a halal right and what isnt? Offended...no..umm..more frustated sorry..well i am anyway..but I am just angry now anyway. Sorry... I should just be quiet now!
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FatimaAsSideqah
08-05-2008, 02:53 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Ooh poor him IbnAbdulHakim. One male in here thread! *outta*
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SixTen
08-05-2008, 02:55 PM
Men eat more, need bigger clothes, they should be paid more. Woman just spend it all on 100 shoes which they won't wear!

(Takes, the full wrath of LI's sisters on behalf of IbnAbdulHakim)
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-05-2008, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by SixTen
(Takes, the full wrath of LI's sisters on behalf of IbnAbdulHakim)
now thats what i call a self-sacrificing brother :O
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Sahabiyaat
08-05-2008, 02:56 PM
:D ok



ermmm....racks brain several yrs back...................................


We had many arguments, he was a feminist and used to openly praise Americas 'liberations' of countries and he knew it irritated me so bad, he used to do it on purpose and smirk right at me whilst he was talking....arrggghh lol.

and was the only teacher i ever knew to apologise for raising his voice at me when the arguments became slightly heated, i think i used to annoy him just as equally :D

anywayyy, bak to feminism, he just agreed with radical feminists :muddlehea, ive never known any man to think so...??
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Sahabiyaat
08-05-2008, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by SixTen
Men eat more, need bigger clothes, they should be paid more. Woman just spend it all on 100 shoes which they won't wear!

(Takes, the full wrath of LI's sisters on behalf of IbnAbdulHakim)
you have no yet seen our full wrath :raging::skeleton:
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Khalisah
08-05-2008, 02:58 PM
^ that comment is just looking for a fight.
A righteous sister would spend money wisely and not go crazy, therefore she wouldn't have a 100 pairs of shoes would she? she wouldn't be so materialistic.
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Al-Zaara
08-05-2008, 03:00 PM
yes it has become extreme in some cases, but that shouldnt nulify the benefit that they have had on society.
Hello, people. Just read that a few times. And go read how women suffered, read what rights they were denied and islam didn't exist there. You can't go saying "Oh if Islam had been there everything would have been good" in an ideal world of a Muslim, YES, there have been very good times yes, but it went downwards all the time. Women have been surpressed for centuries, even in Islamic countries, or current Islamic countries.

Now don't be ignorant, bad sides are everywhere, everyone knows that. But to say feminism is all bad, hasn't given anything good, is just... Ridicilous and ignorant. Yes, extreme/radical feminism is bad. But when a Muslim daugther fights for her right to say No to a marriage, but her Muslim parents refuse, YOU'd say "they don't know Islam well" and her parents would say "she's such a feminist". See? There are different sides, don't get so one-sided.

Read again my comment with the example with Islam. I think if you're sincere, you'd understand... But well, in the end. Everyone to their own opinion. I'm out.
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FatimaAsSideqah
08-05-2008, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by SixTen
Men eat more, need bigger clothes, they should be paid more. Woman just spend it all on 100 shoes which they won't wear!

(Takes, the full wrath of LI's sisters on behalf of IbnAbdulHakim)
Thankfully, it wasn't me like that! But I've lots of hijaabs, poor my husband been spent for it! *outta*
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SixTen
08-05-2008, 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
Hello, people. Just read that a few times. And go read how women suffered, read what rights they were denied and islam didn't exist there. You can't go saying "Oh if Islam had been there everything would have been good" in an ideal world of a Muslim, YES, there have been very good times yes, but it went downwards all the time. Women have been surpressed for centuries, even in Islamic countries, or current Islamic countries.

Now don't be ignorant, bad sides are everywhere, everyone knows that. But to say feminism is all bad, hasn't given anything good, is just... Ridicilous and ignorant. Yes, extreme/radical feminism is bad. But when a Muslim daugther fights for her right to say No to a marriage, but her Muslim parents refuse, YOU'd say "they don't know Islam well" and her parents would say "she's such a feminist". See? There are different sides, don't get so one-sided.

Read again my comment with the example with Islam. I think if you're sincere, you'd understand... But well, in the end. Everyone to their own opinion. I'm out.

Agreed, well said. Feminism, with all isms, have its positives and negatives. Also, since it stemmed in a non-muslim society - we shouldn't get our Islamscope on the issue.

Oh, my previous comment, was just to break the tension - I wasn't being serious:exhausted, except for the shoes part! I know you hiding them!
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Tania
08-05-2008, 07:39 PM
After men are feminists the women which dare to raise their voice against them, doesn't matter which issue its in discussion.
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Faye
08-06-2008, 11:17 AM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
Hello, people. Just read that a few times. And go read how women suffered, read what rights they were denied and islam didn't exist there. You can't go saying "Oh if Islam had been there everything would have been good" in an ideal world of a Muslim, YES, there have been very good times yes, but it went downwards all the time. Women have been surpressed for centuries, even in Islamic countries, or current Islamic countries.

Now don't be ignorant, bad sides are everywhere, everyone knows that. But to say feminism is all bad, hasn't given anything good, is just... Ridicilous and ignorant. Yes, extreme/radical feminism is bad. But when a Muslim daugther fights for her right to say No to a marriage, but her Muslim parents refuse, YOU'd say "they don't know Islam well" and her parents would say "she's such a feminist". See? There are different sides, don't get so one-sided.

Read again my comment with the example with Islam. I think if you're sincere, you'd understand... But well, in the end. Everyone to their own opinion. I'm out.
As I see it, I am an Islamist first. If Islam gives a right, to either men or women, which the other sex tries to deny, I try to back what Islam claims.

But as I see it, feminists (atleast the rabid kind), finding that Islam does not suit their pre-conceived ideas about how things should be, are forced to either deny that these rules exist in Islam, or to reject Islam itself because it is an 'unfair' religion.

If Islam said that women have no right to say 'no' to any marriage arranged for them, or to vote, or any other right that we presently enjoy, I would support that position too, because who am I to judge what Allah, the Almighty orders. I do not follow this religion because its Sharia appeals to me, but because I believe in Allah and think that following his orders will save me from hell-fire and grant me Jannat.

"Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:"
by Alferd, Lord Tennyson
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-06-2008, 11:24 AM
^ jizakAllaah khair :)
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Nawal89
08-06-2008, 01:14 PM
What femenist?

I dislike the radical feminist who hate men but try in every way to be like them.

But I deeply admire a woman who stands up for her rights and doesnt let a man step all over her. And is brave enough to speak up for herself.

Every woman who loves herself will have a bit of feminism in her. Just some women let it out to the extreme.
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-06-2008, 01:34 PM
^^ the word feminist is always used to describe the extreme ones though right?

we wouldnt call a woman who stands up for her rights a feminist, but those who think they should dress exactly as they want and men should control themselves, those who treat their husbands etc like dirt by saying things such as "IM NOT A SLAVE!!!" etc, i myself know many sisters affected by this feminist mentality. and it really is sad to see...


i know an extreme feminist at work aswell, on her door is written "women are far greater workers then men" lol
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Amadeus85
08-06-2008, 02:13 PM
Women were emancipated in West long before feminists came out with their demands and marches. Women began to work thanks to industralization and urbanization, then after two world wars and millions of men' death , women simply had to go to factories or wherever else and start a work. Feminists dont want any equality, they want to change the cultural roles of men and woman, the vision of family which is all backwardness in their neo marxist thinking.
The positive thing is that nowadays in 2008 many people stopped taking them serious. Maybe its just my observation but they became some kind of folklore, remain of XX century, like "working class" or hippies.
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Al-Zaara
08-06-2008, 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by Faye
As I see it, I am an Islamist first. If Islam gives a right, to either men or women, which the other sex tries to deny, I try to back what Islam claims.
Of course.

But as I see it, feminists (atleast the rabid kind), finding that Islam does not suit their pre-conceived ideas about how things should be, are forced to either deny that these rules exist in Islam, or to reject Islam itself because it is an 'unfair' religion.
Well there you go. Some feminists, not all. And as I have said many times, I say I can understand some because they fought for their rights which the men came and said this and this is how it should be. Now where the heck do the men get their idea, why couldn't a woman? All I'm saying is, feminism is like an reaction to chauvinism. It wanted to gain rights men made seem as if they didn't deserve, to be able to vote, or work on some feild they'd want to 'cause "it didn't suit them'.

Then again, if feminists start talking how women are opressed in Islam, of course I am against their opinion. The issue here is, feminism wasn't all bad during the times it made life fairer to the women then.

If Islam said that women have no right to say 'no' to any marriage arranged for them, or to vote, or any other right that we presently enjoy, I would support that position too, because who am I to judge what Allah, the Almighty orders. I do not follow this religion because its Sharia appeals to me, but because I believe in Allah and think that following his orders will save me from hell-fire and grant me Jannat.
Allah is God and some say Allah and are Christians. To them Christianity is what saves them from Hell or grants them Paradaise, to them, the Christian "Shariah" is right and must be followed. I believe in Allah/God and follow Islam. There are many monothestic religions, believing in one God, now why did you choose Islam? Because it appeals to you and you have learned to believe in it.

That idea you gave again would go against much other that goes into Islam, it fairness and justice, that is why I find it absolutely not needed to forward an hypothesis 'if Islam said this, what would I do'. And there are difference of opinions in Fiqh-rules anyways. I won't bother to voice my opinion if I would follow Islam then or not, it's just unnecessary.
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Khalisah
08-06-2008, 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^^ the word feminist is always used to describe the extreme ones though right?

we wouldnt call a woman who stands up for her rights a feminist, but those who think they should dress exactly as they want and men should control themselves....etc
Hold on...is that point trying to say that men shouldn't be put into a situation were they need to practice control? That men shouldn't 'need' to control themselves?? Im hoping...really hoping Ive misinterpretted that statement above. i am not saying that woman sholdnt dress appropriately they should, but to make it seem as though a woman is saying something extreme when she expects a man to control himself....what?
:enough!:
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-06-2008, 05:03 PM
^ yep i'd say you greatly misinterpretted aswell :|

course men should control themselves too :)
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alcurad
08-13-2009, 11:42 PM
http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/ar...linTOQV6N2.pdf consequentially i found this informative :popcorn:
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-14-2009, 12:10 AM
:sl:

Why need feminism when we have Islam? Alhamdulillah. I dont really care for other movements. Islam is enough for me...it's got all I need. Yes when feminism started it was okay now it ain't so I dont like it lol.

Btw bro Alpha dude, that article was posted earlier on in the thread :p
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Clover
08-14-2009, 12:12 AM
I know a lot of feminists, but I don't really care. I know what I want my wife to be like, and I hope she is, but I don't really care if some women want more rights or not, if they want them, fight for them is all I can say.
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GuestFellow
08-14-2009, 12:13 AM
I don't like extreme Feminism. I met women who hated me just because I held the door open or when I let them take my seat on the bus when they had no where else to sit. They had a go at me and saying I'm sexist.>_>

Honestly I don't even know why I even try to be kind.
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جوري
08-14-2009, 12:19 AM
^^ how can anyone hate you for that? phsawwwww
pl go ask any woman what she wants, she'll never say I want to be treated equal to you, if she is honest she'll say 'I want to be treated better'

open the door and give up seats, women folk all over will appreciate it :D

:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-14-2009, 02:35 AM
this is one of those few threads which clearly illustrates the affect of brainwashing on certain individuals whom ofcourse will NOT be named :)
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Ummu Sufyaan
08-14-2009, 04:22 AM
:sl:
someone once posted something about this:
http://www.islamicboard.com/1161231-post1.html

what i dont understand about feminists is why they hate men so much and yet decide to compete with them...i mean if you hated something so much, why would you want to stoop to that thing/persons level :><: it's better when people act themselves and don't compete with one another<---its such a a brilliant display of individuality...competing with people is such a headache and people never really are free when they make others a standard for them :hmm:
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index123
08-14-2009, 04:37 AM
God gives men power over women, when they are not good people, yes they mistreat there wife, when they are really good people they spoil there wife(and whatever wrong they do, is their misfortune on the day of judgement). Men have to work there whole life, theres nothing special about that. Men are supposed to treat there wife good, or else God gets mad at them. Men get 4 wifes(seems good, but no thats a bigger responsibility). All men are supposed to go to war if one comes up, if you don't then I believe you are a deserter, Women on the other hand don't have to. Ok if its unislamic for women to work, then it is also unislamic for men to not work. Isn't it a bit unrealistic to think that one sexes boundaries should fall away whenever they please and the other should have theirs permanent. Are boundaries something only men should follow or should women have some too? think about it immagine women had to work, when she got pregnant would it even be possible? and her husband was staying home, taking care of the house... does that even make since? I guess God has created permanent roles for things, not one day a rabbit can decide to be an elephant and the roles were created hard for every sex, women get beaten by their men and men get there ass beaten by the world(men have to answer for beating their wifes, the world does not have to answer for beating the crap out of you). However in the case of men, there is no one to blame for our misfortune, and it would not be right to blame women for staying home all the time and not getting their ass whooped by the world in our place. Thats life, its alot of hard work and I don't like this but hey its the truth.
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Al-Zaara
08-14-2009, 05:28 AM
Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman
this is one of those few threads which clearly illustrates the affect of brainwashing on certain individuals whom ofcourse will NOT be named :)
That would of course mean me, because I am a "symphatiser" as earlier in the thread was said and F4I is obviously a gentleman to not name any names. :)

It just sad to me, that people refuse to see the less radical feminism. I see no article on chauvinism and Islam. Well, yes I see but it's such an 'disturbing' article people would deny everything.

The article quoted is very personal, I like such stuff, but with the personal a lot of 'facts' are mixed.

Men and women are not the same. Each has particular features and characteristics. Women are not equal to men. But neither are men equal to women. Islam envisages their roles in society not as competing but as complimentary. Each has certain duties and functions in accordance with his or her nature and constitution.
Man possesses certain privileges such as social authority and mobility against which he has to performmany heavy duties. First of all, he bears all economic responsibility. It is his duty to support his family completely even if his wife is rich and despite the fact that she is economically independent. A woman in a traditional Islamic society does not have to worry about earning a living.
Sure, this all sounds good in its way that there is actually a "balance" to find, but this is all both-sided, it must not be forced on you. I have seen great marriages by Muslims, whom I have asked what they think of feminism and the men said they felt bad for those who actually are not treated right, thus fighting and then being shunned. The men yes, a pity they were married, I wonder where I'll find that kind of guy now. Then I asked them about chauvinism and they found that kind of attitud pathetic. Elhamdulillah, their wifes are quite content in their marriages. This is what I think is ideal.

People who deny there actually is a macho attitude or chauvinistic attitude in lots of cultures in Islamic majority countries are just blind and I guess there is no way to discuss what you see with a blind. And fact is, there is that in Christian countries aswell AND secular. Yes, the women fought for their rights but it all turned out again wrong, they are seen as sexual objects, for example.

Among animals, homosexuality is unknown.
No it's not. :hmm:
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glo
08-14-2009, 06:01 AM
^ Al-Zaara, I have run out of reps, but I just want to say how much I appreciate and admire your well-balanced and respectful views. You clearly think about things very carefully.

God bless you. :)
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-14-2009, 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by glo
^ Al-Zaara, I have run out of reps, but I just want to say how much I appreciate and admire your well-balanced and respectful views. You clearly think about things very carefully.

God bless you. :)
disagreed

she actually thinks animals can be homosexual :?
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Somaiyah
08-14-2009, 10:55 AM
Salam,
I believe feminism is a problem which shouldn't exist. Some feminism can be okej, like that men can't treat women however they want (but what men actually do that? many feminists make men sound like they were animals!) and that women should be allowed to drive car and everything. But when it comes to the parts "it's better for the women to work than stay home, how can you stay home with your kids? oh my you're soo oppressed right!" then it becomes totally wrong. As long as it doesn't go against Islam then okej, but the woman's best place is the home and men and women can't be equal in everything. If we were totally equal then we all would have the same hair cut and the same clothes, maybe men would have a veil and abaya too (that would look fun lol). But no, there are men stuff and there are women stuff and I believe that's the way it should be. Why change the way it should be? Feminism isn't good.
Besides, I know many people here who believe animals can be homosexuals, not me though...
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Al-Zaara
08-14-2009, 11:05 AM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
What must not be forced? The "balance"? Balance is good.
When both have understood it (the "balance") Meaning, it is explained and the wife or husband has accepted, if either disagrees, I'd think divorce is the best answer because through force (from either side) only pain comes.

I believe I understand you, but somehow I still feel you fail to understand me. Well, you do not have to either. Overstepping the boundaries, is exactly what I am thinking of, I state that I hate it when men do that and you when women. I think we're simply stating the other side of the coin and thus, actually just agree, maybe.

InshaAllah you will find such a wife for yourself!

Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman

she actually thinks animals can be homosexual :?
There have been threads about it, no? And scientifically prooved?
Although, it has nothing to do with the subject. I feel it is odd to take in animals in an article when discussing about humans, how much one even likes to state about "natural" things.


Now, I must go so do not expect a fast reply.

InshaAllah anything bad and offensive is not to be found in my replies. Ma'salam!
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Uthman
08-14-2009, 11:26 AM
Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman
she actually thinks animals can be homosexual :?
They can be bro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosex...ior_in_animals
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-14-2009, 01:18 PM
It's good when they fight for the stuff that makes "sense." It officially sucks garbage when they go overboard. I feel for them, as long as they don't get shovey and push Islam into their list of "hates." That I cannot ever tolerate.

When women were fighting for their rights in the West...they really did start off well...but as usual they went overboard. They started acting and dressing like men, even early on into the stages of the women's rights movement...so it ain't all that dandy. They obviously didn't see the fine line between what a man is and what a woman is...and their roles a such.

So I DON'T have as much as sympathy for them as say....some other people :hmm: But I do feel sorry for them that they even HAD to fight for themselves.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
08-14-2009, 03:03 PM
:salamext:

I think people need to distinguish between the act of a woman seeking/fighting for the rights given to them by Allaah, and the idealogy of feminism. Anyone who has studied Sociology would understand this. And no, it's not just radical feminists who hold ideas and beliefs that are contrary to Islaam. All the sub-groups of feminism go against the teachings of Islaam to some degree. The whole concept of men and women having equal rights is incorrect, Islaamically, as we have different rights - but there is still justice.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“Here we should note that there are some people who speak of equality instead of justice, and this is a mistake. We should not say equality, because equality implies no differentiation between the two. Because of this unjust call for equality, they started to ask, what is the difference between male and female?’ So they made males and females the same, and then the communists said, ‘What difference is there between ruler and subject? No one has any authority over anyone else, not even fathers and sons; the father has no authority over his son,’ and so on.

But if we say justice, which means giving each one that to which he or she is entitled, this misunderstanding no longer applies, and the word used is correct. Hence it does not say in the Qur’aan that Allaah enjoins equality, rather it says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, Allaah enjoins Al‑‘Adl (i.e. justice)”

[al-Nahl 16:90]

“and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice”

[al-Nisa’ 4:58]

Those who say that Islam is the religion of equality are lying against Islam. Rather Islam is the religion of justice which means treating equally those who are equal and differentiating between those who are different.

No one who knows the religion of Islam would say that it is the religion of equality. Rather what shows you that this principle is false is the fact that most of what is mentioned in the Qur’aan denies equality, as in the following verses:

‘Say: Are those who know equal to those who know not?”

[al-Zumar 39:9]

‘Say: Is the blind equal to the one who sees? Or darkness equal to light?’

[al-Ra’d 13:16]

‘Not equal among you are those who spent and fought before the conquering (of Makkah, with those among you who did so later’

[al-Hadeed 57:10]

‘Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allaah with their wealth and their live’

[al-Nisa’ 4:95]

Not one single letter in the Qur’aan enjoins equality, rather it enjoins justice. You will also find that the word justice is acceptable to people, for I feel that if I am better than this man in terms of knowledge, or wealth, or piety, or in doing good, I would not like for him to be equal to me.

Every man knows that he find it unacceptable if we say that the male is equal to the female.”

Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Waasitah
, 1/180-181
Reply

crayon
08-14-2009, 07:39 PM
For every hardcore feminist there is a hardcore chauvinist. Both are equally retarded. Islam teaches moderation in all aspects of life, and the rights and responsibilities of the genders are no exception to this rule. Simple as 1,2,3.
Reply

Grofica
08-14-2009, 09:21 PM
I dont know it does get rather annoying but there are some good points to femine rights... i mean i get to vote, drive, write or say my own opinion. its got its perks... however the only people who make me angry are the people (like one dear friend of mine, which whom we have to keep our talks on simple things) believe woman have EVERY right as a man but at the same time she does not want the responsibility of a man... i dont know... i believe in equality but you cant be a big feminist and then expect a man to treat you "like a lady"
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
08-14-2009, 10:00 PM
chauvinism in its most leniant form is something I STRONGLY disapprove of.


but i guess its not the same vice versa for many sisters
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
08-14-2009, 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by Uthmān
might be possessed by devils/djinns


and im not even kidding
Reply

czgibson
08-14-2009, 10:05 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman
Women were happy with life till the feminists made them start competing on every unhealthy level with men
Have you ever read any feminist literature?

The finger was pretty good, but it doesn't compete with the original - Lord Kitchener. Plus he had a moustache going for him as well. :)

Peace
Reply

Tony
08-14-2009, 10:24 PM
[QUOTE=Fighting4Iman;984218]Women were happy with life till the feminists made them start competing on every unhealthy level with men


i just hope


YOU


dont become one or a supporter of one.

They really are terrible


perfect for picking a virtual nose, A finer finger I never saw
Reply

marwen
08-14-2009, 11:04 PM
I understand if a woman wants to have respect and to grant her rights (to learn, and to have the right to accept or refuse a man for marriage, to be protected from violence, ...)

But trying to do men's work and men's behaviour will not really bring her these rights. On the contrary, if a woman mingle with men in the work, she may loose her respect and risk to be victim of violence.

And remember, I'm not saying that because I'm a man, but because there is something wrong in all this "Feminist" philosophy. And now if all the women become men, we men what will we do ? Look sisters ! if Allah has created each one of you as a woman and not a man, that's because Allah wants you to be a woman.
Reply

index123
08-15-2009, 12:34 AM
Among animals, homosexuality is unknown.
not amoungst Giraffes lol
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-15-2009, 01:01 AM
Look sisters ! if Allah has created each one of you as a woman and not a man, that's because Allah wants you to be a woman.
Not sure who said otherwise :)
Reply

alcurad
08-15-2009, 01:41 AM
animals as well as humans can be and are homosexual, end of tangents please.

consequentially i posted a good article in reply #42, it's somewhat long but is very normative.

in short feminism gives women too many rights but with no responsibility attached, actually feminism is in a large part the right for women to play around and accuse men of rape for no reason.
but I agree with sister al-zaara on this, she is wise, learn from her :). also read the article.now.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-15-2009, 01:44 AM
Look more into history and you will realize that what they intended didn't last. They fought for rights that were legitimate...but also lost their sense of modesty and natural roles as women...which is garbage in my opinion. Anything conflicting with Islam isn't even a grain of salt to me...

:sl:
Reply

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